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PTS Update 25 - Feedback Thread for Battlegrounds Solo Queuing

ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
This is the official feedback thread for the upcoming change to Battlegrounds including solo queuing and MMR resets. To reiterate what was stated in the PTS patch notes, this is a big change to Battlegrounds matchmaking which we are executing partially in response to player feedback and partially as an experiment. We recognize the change will prevent players from being able to reliably team up with friends in Battlegrounds, but it should also improve both the speed of matchmaking and the competitiveness of PvP matches. As part of the change, we are resetting the matchmaking rating (MMR) of all players, so going forward, the system more properly evaluates individuals based on their performance in the solo queue.

We’ll be closely monitoring both player feedback and the impact of these changes on the system.

Going forward, we'd like to keep all discussion about these changes in this thread to keep the conversation consolidated. Thank you!
Gina Bruno
ESO Community Manager
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Staff Post
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    To each their own. When I see someone I know I focus them, I’d rather they be on a different team.

    Maybe the best solution would be that you can max queue as two? If someone plays with their wife/husband they already have my pity, why make things harder on them. Focusing your hubby I don’t think would be a good idea.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    The biggest problem is that even split queue can't be implemented properly. When you have solo-only queue and a group queue(2-4) a number of problems would occur. Solo players are restricted from group queue, thus group of 3 would never have the last one to fill the team restricting these groups entirely. Even if solo players weren't restricted and could actually queue for group queue, there will be very small few of these creating extremely long waiting times for groups of 3. Vast majority of solo players would queue for the solo queue anyways so there will be hardly any to fill the group of 3. You will be left with pairs and full 4-premades in the group-queue. I do think that this the exactly same situation like with solo players, it is not fair that two pairs can go against full 4-premade.

    My proposal and possible solution are two separate queues: solo/duo queue and full-4 premade queue.
    1) The full 4-premade could be very interesting and extremely competitive PvP environment showing some true potential of objective based PvP. E-sports possibility?
    2) Pairs against solos won't be of a deal if there is added a restriction to matchmaking tool: only one pair can be in a team at a time. 4 solos against a pair and 2 solos (this is the worst possible scenario in that case) are equal teams, because MMR altering coeficient for being grouped would find the 4 solos of higher MMR bracket. So the advantage of being grouped will be effectively eliminated by having tougher opponents.

    If split queue is not possible ATM for technical reasons, that's fine. But please, make queue solo/duo until we have more queue options. It's a solid compromise between both, solo players and players who like to play with friends. Having it solo queue only is just rejecting one group of players entirely and cattering to the other completely. Having it solo/duo is still a ton of improvement (solos will never again be stomped by 4-premade which is the actual reason for the change) but the players that have friends/partners/aliens/whoever to pair with and enjoy some time together in BG would not be restricted from this PvP activity.

    PS: To not claim credits unrightfuly, the solo/duo queue is not my idea. It already exists in the most popular PvP game of last 10 years - League of Legends (a 5v5 MobA), for very long time. Even e-sport game like this doesn't have a queue for solos only, it's solo/duo. They either realised that solos against duos is not much of a deal, or they enjoy watching innocent cute defenseless solo players being crushed by super overpowered godlike pairs (There were several players lately in other threads claiming that this is the reason why they don't want duos in solo queue. Made me laugh :lol:)
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on January 21, 2020 11:49PM
  • mav1234
    mav1234
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    The biggest problem is that even split queue can't be implemented properly. When you have solo-only queue and a group queue(2-4) a number of problems would occur. Solo players are restricted from group queue, thus group of 3 would never have the last one to fill the team restricting these groups entirely. .

    I like your idea @Olupajmibanan of a solo/duo queue + a 4 person premade queue. This would allow for casual players to ply with their friends/loved ones in the normal queue, and for a "tryhard sweaty" queue as Mursie put it... That said, I did want to add to the above, if instead of changing the current queue in terms of who can queue for it, they just added a "Solo Only Queue", players could still queue for the current queue as solo and get into a 3 person team, or could choose to queue for solo-only. Alternatively, they could just only allow 2 and 4 person teams to queue for a group queue.

    Regardless, implementing only a solo queue will be net detrimental outside of high MMR BGs I think, because a lot of the more casual people queue with a friend for fun, and not to be optimized pugstompers.
  • LukosCreyden
    LukosCreyden
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    I like the fact that there is a solo queue very much, as I always solo in BG's. I do not like that solo queue is the only option though, as there are many players who like to play with their friends, it isn't all about "pug stomping", even though that has been a thing in the past.

    I definitely think we need two separate queues, one for solo only, one for groups only.
    Hello. If you're reading this; you're a beautiful person.

    Magicka Necromancer main (for now). I enjoy soloing stuff.

    Guild Master of "Story Hunters" - A Guild for those who only wish to experience the stories of DLC dungeons.
    PS4/EU - Feel free to message me if you're interested in joining!
  • Woodoochill
    Woodoochill
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    I cannot help but to just laught about it... When you cannot repair something *cought*activity finder*cought*, lets just remove some of major features. And thats from someone who queues in solo 98% times and BGs are his #1 thing to enjoy.

    Seperated solo, group(2-3) and full premade. "This is the way". With option for solo, to opt in to be "filled" to 2 or 3 premades. As suggested by @Olupajmibanan 's comment.

    Also it is a step closer to ranked BGs system (which if done properly might generete money income to ZOS through tournaments) with seasons (can be DLC time or smaller like quartal updates). Unique rewards for top % of players(account based not char) maybe mount or skin just worth the time enough to care and tryhard, some complainers just needs to remember, that they are fighting against an actual players with brains, not coded mechanics which is much more unforgiving.
    Edited by Woodoochill on January 21, 2020 11:52PM
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
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    The truth of the matter is that this “New BG Experiment” is nothing more than a cheap, and obviously effective, way to get people “excited” about battlegrounds.

    The goal was not to find a balance for Battleground matches. The goal was to get more people interested in playing.

    Catering to the casual gamer that doesn’t have a dedicated group of friends to play with (yet) is more lucrative than catering to customers that they already know will keep playing anyway. Even if they lose a few dedicated players, the influx of new ones would be a worthwhile gamble.

    And all they had to do was reset the MMR while preventing groups from queuing together.

    Easy day.
    Edited by ChunkyCat on January 22, 2020 2:46AM
  • SoixanteNeuf
    SoixanteNeuf
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    As a new player, I also think they should create a sense of community. Somehow the X-Box version of this game has in-game communication, but the PC version doesn't? As a new player, I like meeting new people and it'd be easier to talk to others if the voice comms were on :)
    Edited by SoixanteNeuf on January 22, 2020 3:00AM
  • mav1234
    mav1234
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    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    Catering to the casual gamer that doesn’t have a dedicated group of friends to play with (yet) is more lucrative than catering to customers that they already know will keep playing anyway. Even if they lose a few dedicated players, the influx of new ones would be a worthwhile gamble..

    I'm not really sure if this change actually benefits "casual" players more. Most of the more causal PvPers I know only PvP with friends...
  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    Create new mode.

    15 vs 15. Requirement for Q: must belong in a group (no matter the size)

    Leave the AvAvA for solo.
    The methods of your Devs to tackle problems seem very lazy.

    Personally I dont mind the solo Qs. All my friends have left long ago, due to the abilities and gear bonuses that your team creates.
    Civil response, without hiding judgmental tone.
    Edited by GeorgeBlack on January 22, 2020 3:46AM
  • Dreyloch
    Dreyloch
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    I don't do BG's on the regular. I did them for a time to grind thru solo queue'ing simply for the costume gear. I DO however enjoy cyrodiil. But the point I wanna make is that the Dev note said this was kind of an "experiment" as well.

    So it gets me thinking that Cyro, and maybe ALL of PvP will become solo queue (AkA no more groups, period). If that happens, balance will finally come to this game because PvP will be done. The servers will shut down for lack of players (tons already left, and I'm taking a break myself) so that means no more PvP vs PvE balance problems.This change doesn't impact me personally for now. But if it goes further, then obviously it will =/
    "The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"
  • ecru
    ecru
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    The third team is and always will be the problem, not premades. Three teams exacerbates every single possible issue with matchmaking to a much greater extent than two because the most skilled team always has the potential advantage of using a third team to turn every pvp situation into a numbers advantage for them.

    This is not going to bring players back or encourage people to queue more. Players don't queue for BGs because they aren't fun, not because they lose to premades. Most people don't care if they lose if they have fun. Most players don't have fun getting rear-ended while in an even fight. I've never, ever seen any MMO outright ban all premades, even duos. This is a first, and the major difference here between ESO and every other MMO is the third team. Three teams leads to messy, directionless, disorganized matches where you're either outnumbered, outnumbering your opponents, or ignoring pvp altogether to do objectives while the other two teams pvp. None of these scenarios have any sort of direct appeal to players.

    Winning doesn't feel good, because you probably did it by taking advantage of superior numbers by rear-ending another team, stealing kills, or standing on a flag while everyone else did some pvp. Losing especially doesn't feel good because you often lose when people steal your kills, or when you decide to pvp, which you're penalized for because the third team is then allowed to take objectives without any sort of confrontation. It sucks and it isn't fun. You don't ever win by directly engaging in pvp, you win by waiting to jump someone about to die, or avoiding pvp as much as you possibly can.

    No matter what balance changes or changes to queueing are made, the third team will always make BGs a miserable gameplay experience for just about everyone involved. Scrap the whole system and just copy WoW or Rift and implement normal 8v8 BGs with bigger maps and no deathmatch. Make the max premade group size 4, match premade groups up against premade groups with pugs on both sides, and you'll finally have (mostly) balanced, fun pvp.
    Minyassa wrote: »
    "Pre-mades vs pugs" is all on the pugs. Entirely on them. There is *nothing* stopping you from going and getting three other people and forming a pre-made yourself, except just plain not being willing to go to the effort. People shouldn't expect standards to be lowered to accommodate their own lack of motivation. This is just "we want everything to be free and easy" with a different mask on.

    ESO would be the outlier here, since basically every game in existence doesn't allow you to form a full premade and queue up against pugs. Why? Because while people don't mind losing half the time (as is the outcome of most matchmaking systems), they do mind not having a chance to win at all. Implementing the requirement that you get three of your friends in voice chat to have any chance of enjoying an instanced match is the quickest way to make sure just about everyone stops queueing for those matches. People who want to pvp in an organized premade are 1% of the player base. The players you think want everything to be "free and easy" are the other 99%, and they're the ones who make the game possible in the first place.
    Edited by ecru on January 22, 2020 7:36AM
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • price101610
    price101610
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    Create solo queue bgs and group bgs. Allow players to choose either whether solo or not and fill gaps in premades that only have 2 or 3 for quicker queue times. Simple. That’s how I know Zos won’t implement it.
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