PTS Update 25 - Feedback Thread for Battlegrounds Solo Queuing

RealPhoenix

Generally, I agree that premades vs randoms can make for some very unbalanced games. I think solo queuing will solve some of these issues, but a team with a good healer and people who can sync their ultis will still win against other random group compositions.
I am also not sure how I feel about the solo queue in general yet. As stated above and by many others, it does solve a real issue of BGs, but I dont know if the answer should be to disallow queuing with friends altogether - this is a MMO after all.

Also, I think the "multiple queue" system some people seem to be suggesting also isnt as easy to solve, simply because BGs dont have a very big population and queue times will probably be pretty high if there are two or even three different queues - especially if there would be a queue for 2-3 people, cause which solo player would like to queue in for that, if he can just use the solo queue?

I think some of the issues could have been prevented already by improving the MMR and matchmaking process. Instead of only regarding the win / loss rate of the player, one could:
- look at the damage / healing numbers of each player in each game
- look at kills / assists / deaths a player gets
- regarding groups, look at the composition - a group with a healer (or at least several people with good healing numbers) will most likely be better than a group of 4 squishy DDs, even if their damage numbers are good

I think there is no easy solution to this problem and I´m fine with Solo-Queueing making it to live as a "Test", like stated in the PTS patch notes. However, I do not think this should be the long term solution for a game that is all about playing with your friends.

Olupajmibanan

Looks like the issue with this thread not appearing at the first page has been resolved. Please, feel free to ignore my thread that was created as a workaround to bypass the bug.

Lucious90

RealPhoenix wrote: »

Generally, I agree that premades vs randoms can make for some very unbalanced games. I think solo queuing will solve some of these issues, but a team with a good healer and people who can sync their ultis will still win against other random group compositions.
I am also not sure how I feel about the solo queue in general yet. As stated above and by many others, it does solve a real issue of BGs, but I dont know if the answer should be to disallow queuing with friends altogether - this is a MMO after all.

Also, I think the "multiple queue" system some people seem to be suggesting also isnt as easy to solve, simply because BGs dont have a very big population and queue times will probably be pretty high if there are two or even three different queues - especially if there would be a queue for 2-3 people, cause which solo player would like to queue in for that, if he can just use the solo queue?

I think some of the issues could have been prevented already by improving the MMR and matchmaking process. Instead of only regarding the win / loss rate of the player, one could:
- look at the damage / healing numbers of each player in each game
- look at kills / assists / deaths a player gets
- regarding groups, look at the composition - a group with a healer (or at least several people with good healing numbers) will most likely be better than a group of 4 squishy DDs, even if their damage numbers are good

I think there is no easy solution to this problem and I´m fine with Solo-Queueing making it to live as a "Test", like stated in the PTS patch notes. However, I do not think this should be the long term solution for a game that is all about playing with your friends.

I think for a que with premades we just need to ditch the 4v4v4. go to a 4v4 on Smaller maps

Olupajmibanan

RealPhoenix wrote: »

Generally, I agree that premades vs randoms can make for some very unbalanced games. I think solo queuing will solve some of these issues, but a team with a good healer and people who can sync their ultis will still win against other random group compositions.
I am also not sure how I feel about the solo queue in general yet. As stated above and by many others, it does solve a real issue of BGs, but I dont know if the answer should be to disallow queuing with friends altogether - this is a MMO after all.

Also, I think the "multiple queue" system some people seem to be suggesting also isnt as easy to solve, simply because BGs dont have a very big population and queue times will probably be pretty high if there are two or even three different queues - especially if there would be a queue for 2-3 people, cause which solo player would like to queue in for that, if he can just use the solo queue?

I think some of the issues could have been prevented already by improving the MMR and matchmaking process. Instead of only regarding the win / loss rate of the player, one could:
- look at the damage / healing numbers of each player in each game
- look at kills / assists / deaths a player gets
- regarding groups, look at the composition - a group with a healer (or at least several people with good healing numbers) will most likely be better than a group of 4 squishy DDs, even if their damage numbers are good

I think there is no easy solution to this problem and I´m fine with Solo-Queueing making it to live as a "Test", like stated in the PTS patch notes. However, I do not think this should be the long term solution for a game that is all about playing with your friends.

AFAIK, MMR does not even interact with team placements (1st, 2nd, 3rd) at all. Based on a lot of player tests, MMR-gain per match is a number derived from your medal score and this is then added to your total MMR which is entirely cumulative. You can affect speed of gaining MMR (by playing poorly and gaining little medal score), but you cannot stop your MMR growing (other way than not playing at all ). I strongly believe that the inability of MMR to fall down is the core of most BG problems. If we really want balanced matches (this should be top priority at all costs), we need to start measuring individual player performance and create matches based on this.

Usualy, competitive PvP games have ranked brackets for this. You can climb to higher brackets, you can fall back to lower brackets. After some time, everyone will get stuck in the bracket he truly belongs to.

Gravord

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

RealPhoenix wrote: »

Generally, I agree that premades vs randoms can make for some very unbalanced games. I think solo queuing will solve some of these issues, but a team with a good healer and people who can sync their ultis will still win against other random group compositions.
I am also not sure how I feel about the solo queue in general yet. As stated above and by many others, it does solve a real issue of BGs, but I dont know if the answer should be to disallow queuing with friends altogether - this is a MMO after all.

Also, I think the "multiple queue" system some people seem to be suggesting also isnt as easy to solve, simply because BGs dont have a very big population and queue times will probably be pretty high if there are two or even three different queues - especially if there would be a queue for 2-3 people, cause which solo player would like to queue in for that, if he can just use the solo queue?

I think some of the issues could have been prevented already by improving the MMR and matchmaking process. Instead of only regarding the win / loss rate of the player, one could:
- look at the damage / healing numbers of each player in each game
- look at kills / assists / deaths a player gets
- regarding groups, look at the composition - a group with a healer (or at least several people with good healing numbers) will most likely be better than a group of 4 squishy DDs, even if their damage numbers are good

I think there is no easy solution to this problem and I´m fine with Solo-Queueing making it to live as a "Test", like stated in the PTS patch notes. However, I do not think this should be the long term solution for a game that is all about playing with your friends.

AFAIK, MMR does not even interact with team placements (1st, 2nd, 3rd) at all. Based on a lot of player tests, MMR-gain per match is a number derived from your medal score and this is then added to your total MMR which is entirely cumulative. You can affect speed of gaining MMR (by playing poorly and gaining little medal score), but you cannot stop your MMR growing (other way than not playing at all ). I strongly believe that the inability of MMR to fall down is the core of most BG problems. If we really want balanced matches (this should be top priority at all costs), we need to start measuring individual player performance and create matches based on this.

Usualy, competitive PvP games have ranked brackets for this. You can climb to higher brackets, you can fall back to lower brackets. After some time, everyone will get stuck in the bracket he truly belongs to.

Sadly current system is terrible and need a lot of changes. Playing badly and loosing still gives you bonus points is just silly.

mav1234

All the way back in 2017, ZOS had this to say about Battlegrounds:
A new type of conflict is coming to Tamriel in June. Soon, you and your companions will be able to take to the field in Battlegrounds, a new fast-paced PvP game mode exclusive to The Elder Scrolls Online: Morrowind. (emphasis mine)

The reason I bought ESO back then was, in part, for instanced PvP with friends. Removing this option entirely just seems unfair.

Kidgangster101

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

This is a wonderful change. Obviously having solo and group queues would be better, but if I had to choose one way or the other it would definitely be solo only. The worst part about BGs is fighting premade groups as a solo player.

But the big problem is not the premades, it is you as a solo player. You are still queing into a game mode that requires a "team". If YOU refuse to communicate or stick together with your group then it is YOUR fault for being farmed by "premades".

This is a learn to play issue because BG is a "team mode" just saying punishing people that play together won't make you better and now it just adds randomness into everything. The team with a headset on mic or talking through text that sticks together will 100% win and will definitely look like a premade.

And you also stop duos from queing at all. (I can't tell you how many times me and my wife would que together and carry a team to victory because the "solo" players would wander off. And on the same note we lost to other groups sticking together as a duo because you "solo" players would not respond to us typing or talking on headset and run in to a group of 4 because you wander away and then get mad when you die saying it's a "premade" group lol)

The players that like this change just need to learn you are playing a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game and you are encouraging a change that will make this game die faster because a lot of people won't play. This is how a mmo loses subs/micro transactions then eventually has to shut down to a low player base.

All pvp game modes are different as well so please everyone stop saying go play ic or go to cyrodil. Those 2 pvp modes are 100% different than BG. Comparing them is like biting a apple and saying it taste like an orange lol.

darthgummibear_ESO

Not being able to run any bg's with any of your friends is just really stupid. The bg system is not without its problems, but this isn't the solution.

Running into premades isn't the problem. The problem is the current MMR system actively penalizing you simply for playing more often. Even people who aren't good at pvp will get to a point where they are always matched against more experienced players. Simply not allowing people to play with their friends(in an mmo, lol) won't fix this.

Of all the changes going through right now, this has to be one of the dumbest.

Chantclaire

I feel like there are enough players in the BG community to have two separate queues; one for solo and one for pre mades ,

ecru

Urvoth wrote: »

I'm really not sure how zos can possibly think it's a good idea to take away a gamemode functionality that has been a primary feature of PvP gameplay for nearly 3 years.

This is not the way to bring players back to BGs or encourage more. Yes, premades pugstomping a bunch of solo queuers is a problem, but there are far better ways to fix that, and a lot of the time people use the premade excuse when they're just playing against better players who stick together. I've been whispered more times than I can count complaining about me premading when I'm solo queue and just have good teammates who stick together.

Also, it's pretty rare for premades to actually run premade setups and most of the time it's just 4 players running solo queue builds in comms together, which although grants an advantage, it can be negligible depending on the coordination of the other teams.

There is no added competitiveness from solo queue only, if anything it removes the competitiveness of premade vs premade games, which are far sweatier and more tryhard than any solo queue experience. This change takes away the possibility of any GvG or premade vs premade games, tournaments, beef, etc, and as someone who has played high MMR BGs as a primary focus in the game for years, removing that possibility also destroys a lot of the activities and reasons many high MMR players still play and why there are even BG guilds in the first place.

High MMR guilds regularly run 4v4v4 premade games, as well as tournaments and organized premade queue snipes. Nearly every high MMR player on PC NA that plays ESO regularly is in at least one of these guilds and participates/has participated in those type of activities. Removing groups from BGs kills that entire segment of the BG community, which also happens to be the most active, interactive, new player friendly(adding/recruiting new high MMR players to play with), and cares deeply about the future of the game. Everyone knows each other and that community aspect is a primary positive benefit of the current system.

Cyrodiil/IC are not viable replacements for BG grouping. They offer inconsistent and non-structured gameplay options, with virtually 0 guild agency and more fights vs random bots than actual good players. Those gamemodes are open world done poorly, and do not appeal to a lot of the regular BG players, as they want something more regular, consistent, easy to start, structured, and with a solid, measurable outcome.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

This is probably the best BG change ever since its inception.

It certainly is not, and for someone who has said before that they like soloing vs premades because it's more of a personal challenge, I find it interesting that you should say this. 4v4v4s structurally is a better gamemode for solo queue since the three team system doesn't integrate well into group vs group gameplay, but until zos actually adds something logical like 6v6s, taking away grouping is only a net negative change. Aside from true premades and guilds being unable to play, all the duo queuers and casuals wanting to queue with their buddies are also hurt by this change, and for many of those players being able to play together is more important than playing BGs.

RealPhoenix wrote: »

Generally, I agree that premades vs randoms can make for some very unbalanced games. I think solo queuing will solve some of these issues, but a team with a good healer and people who can sync their ultis will still win against other random group compositions.
I am also not sure how I feel about the solo queue in general yet. As stated above and by many others, it does solve a real issue of BGs, but I dont know if the answer should be to disallow queuing with friends altogether - this is a MMO after all.

Also, I think the "multiple queue" system some people seem to be suggesting also isnt as easy to solve, simply because BGs dont have a very big population and queue times will probably be pretty high if there are two or even three different queues - especially if there would be a queue for 2-3 people, cause which solo player would like to queue in for that, if he can just use the solo queue?

I think some of the issues could have been prevented already by improving the MMR and matchmaking process. Instead of only regarding the win / loss rate of the player, one could:
- look at the damage / healing numbers of each player in each game
- look at kills / assists / deaths a player gets
- regarding groups, look at the composition - a group with a healer (or at least several people with good healing numbers) will most likely be better than a group of 4 squishy DDs, even if their damage numbers are good

I think there is no easy solution to this problem and I´m fine with Solo-Queueing making it to live as a "Test", like stated in the PTS patch notes. However, I do not think this should be the long term solution for a game that is all about playing with your friends.

Basing MMR on anything but wins/losses in most games has often lead to players being in brackets they shouldn't be. Doing things like padding damage or healing but not being an effective healer or damage dealer is one way to see how this could happen.

PhoenixGrey

Urvoth wrote: »

I'm really not sure how zos can possibly think it's a good idea to take away a gamemode functionality that has been a primary feature of PvP gameplay for nearly 3 years.

This is not the way to bring players back to BGs or encourage more. Yes, premades pugstomping a bunch of solo queuers is a problem, but there are far better ways to fix that, and a lot of the time people use the premade excuse when they're just playing against better players who stick together. I've been whispered more times than I can count complaining about me premading when I'm solo queue and just have good teammates who stick together.

Also, it's pretty rare for premades to actually run premade setups and most of the time it's just 4 players running solo queue builds in comms together, which although grants an advantage, it can be negligible depending on the coordination of the other teams.

There is no added competitiveness from solo queue only, if anything it removes the competitiveness of premade vs premade games, which are far sweatier and more tryhard than any solo queue experience. This change takes away the possibility of any GvG or premade vs premade games, tournaments, beef, etc, and as someone who has played high MMR BGs as a primary focus in the game for years, removing that possibility also destroys a lot of the activities and reasons many high MMR players still play and why there are even BG guilds in the first place.

High MMR guilds regularly run 4v4v4 premade games, as well as tournaments and organized premade queue snipes. Nearly every high MMR player on PC NA that plays ESO regularly is in at least one of these guilds and participates/has participated in those type of activities. Removing groups from BGs kills that entire segment of the BG community, which also happens to be the most active, interactive, new player friendly(adding/recruiting new high MMR players to play with), and cares deeply about the future of the game. Everyone knows each other and that community aspect is a primary positive benefit of the current system.

Cyrodiil/IC are not viable replacements for BG grouping. They offer inconsistent and non-structured gameplay options, with virtually 0 guild agency and more fights vs random bots than actual good players. Those gamemodes are open world done poorly, and do not appeal to a lot of the regular BG players, as they want something more regular, consistent, easy to start, structured, and with a solid, measurable outcome.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

This is probably the best BG change ever since its inception.

It certainly is not, and for someone who has said before that they like soloing vs premades because it's more of a personal challenge, I find it interesting that you should say this. 4v4v4s structurally is a better gamemode for solo queue since the three team system doesn't integrate well into group vs group gameplay, but until zos actually adds something logical like 6v6s, taking away grouping is only a net negative change. Aside from true premades and guilds being unable to play, all the duo queuers and casuals wanting to queue with their buddies are also hurt by this change, and for many of those players being able to play together is more important than playing BGs.

It was a challenge and it was going pretty well before they nerfed the *** out of shields.

Assuming you have not played much this patch I can assure you sorc is not in a good spot for top tier PVP offensively or defensively due to severe sustain issues.

It looks really good on the outside due to the kill stealing gimmick but the class is pretty much useless on it's own.

darthgummibear_ESO

Like I said before, the busted MMR is the problem. With the current system, the occasional premade is a price I'm gladly willing to pay to be able to run bg's with my friends.

dcam86b14_ESO

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

mikeb16_ESO77

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

If you read the entire thread you'll see the majority of the concerns regarding the change is the ability to play with you're wife/husband/partner/friend ie duos and the main reason we even play this game. I promise you its not about stomping pugs. These concerns doesn't really need any testing since we know we won't be able to play with our partner.

AhPook_Is_Here

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

If you read the entire thread you'll see the majority of the concerns regarding the change is the ability to play with you're wife/husband/partner/friend ie duos and the main reason we even play this game. I promise you its not about stomping pugs. These concerns doesn't really need any testing since we know we won't be able to play with our partner.

I'm sure down the road they are going to make a duo and a group queue where duos can face other duos and full groups can play against other groups.

Gravord

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

If you read the entire thread you'll see the majority of the concerns regarding the change is the ability to play with you're wife/husband/partner/friend ie duos and the main reason we even play this game. I promise you its not about stomping pugs. These concerns doesn't really need any testing since we know we won't be able to play with our partner.

I'm sure down the road they are going to make a duo and a group queue where duos can face other duos and full groups can play against other groups.

Whoah, take away content we already have to maybe give it later down the road, awesome, im so happy to hear it!!...

Solo q only is a horrible idea that will only destroy bg scene and cause disband of many bg oriented guilds. Its team content, not a solo one.

SodanTok

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

If you read the entire thread you'll see the majority of the concerns regarding the change is the ability to play with you're wife/husband/partner/friend ie duos and the main reason we even play this game. I promise you its not about stomping pugs. These concerns doesn't really need any testing since we know we won't be able to play with our partner.

I'm sure down the road they are going to make a duo and a group queue where duos can face other duos and full groups can play against other groups.

Its not like people just sit and wait, if one thing is removed they find alternative and unless the thing removed is so great and better than any found alternative - and lets be real, ESO BGs arent some outstanding content - they will stick to that alternative. If they stick to this decision they should not even bother bring any sort of group queue back, its gonna be worse than now and nobody is willing to wait 3 months on worse product.

mav1234

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I'm sure down the road they are going to make a duo and a group queue where duos can face other duos and full groups can play against other groups.

if they are actually set on a duo and group queue, the more intelligent thing seems to be announcing that fact and allowing us to weigh in on that idea while they develop it, rather than removing current options in the game while they get around to implementing new queues.

on the other hand - if they MAY NOT add group queue abilities and permanently leave BGs as a solo queue, it makes sense to go this route, because then they can gauge community reaction to a single queue.

Yamenstein

precambria wrote: »

It's a MMO there should be grouping, most people solo Q anyway for me that is half the fun seeing who I get and if my build is adaptable, BUT there should be a premade vs premade division I see no reason why not it adds so much to group comp builds ect the whole game is pretty much balanced around that, you already know what is going to happen to support players when this goes live... It's going to be triggering to have to play with low MMR people who think it's OK to RP as a sneeeky assassin in a BG where your team relies on you.

"I see no reason why not" ... What if their isn't enough players to support both queues ? I don't know the population count on who plays battlegrounds. But it might start taking ages if they split like this ? They will need to highly insentivise both queues separately so people want to do both. That's the only way I see it working.

Kidgangster101

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

@dcam86b14_ESO

Maybe it is "working" because it is pts right now. I'm telling you a lot of people will leave that currently play and it has nothing to do with not able to "pug stomp". It has everything to do with catering a "team oriented mode" to a "solo" player that doesn't want to do "team work".

Maybe if solo players stuck together or formed a group outside that has a healer to make it so you don't die in 3 seconds than this wouldn't be an issue.

Now I stead people can't play "duo, trio, or with a full group" because you guys want everything to be give to you.

How about instead of this change you just add a 1v1 mode so that either you are good enough to play alone or you are not. If you lose you can't blame it on the "premade" on the other side that stuck together the entire match. If people die they need an excuse "that lagged or he glitched or they are a pre made" just take defeat and move on.

BG now will simply become a Russian roulette with who got the "unkillable healer" on their team. Or the solo players that use com's and stay together, or how about when 4 healers get qued on the same team and can't get a kill......

This mode has so many flaws with these changes it is crazy and it is actually taking the "team play" aspect away further just dumbing down content similar to how they made world bosses soloable no problem because it was too hard for the "solo" player to do because God forbid they need help to accomplish something in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME.

Gravord

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

@dcam86b14_ESO

Maybe it is "working" because it is pts right now. I'm telling you a lot of people will leave that currently play and it has nothing to do with not able to "pug stomp". It has everything to do with catering a "team oriented mode" to a "solo" player that doesn't want to do "team work".

Maybe if solo players stuck together or formed a group outside that has a healer to make it so you don't die in 3 seconds than this wouldn't be an issue.

Now I stead people can't play "duo, trio, or with a full group" because you guys want everything to be give to you.

How about instead of this change you just add a 1v1 mode so that either you are good enough to play alone or you are not. If you lose you can't blame it on the "premade" on the other side that stuck together the entire match. If people die they need an excuse "that lagged or he glitched or they are a pre made" just take defeat and move on.

BG now will simply become a Russian roulette with who got the "unkillable healer" on their team. Or the solo players that use com's and stay together, or how about when 4 healers get qued on the same team and can't get a kill......

This mode has so many flaws with these changes it is crazy and it is actually taking the "team play" aspect away further just dumbing down content similar to how they made world bosses soloable no problem because it was too hard for the "solo" player to do because God forbid they need help to accomplish something in a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME.

Starting to think thats exactly their goal. Take team play away, cater to pugsies who play 1 bg a week instead to ppl who do them for hours on daily basis, then quietly shut down whole thing. Adding new maps should be a trivial thing, simple copy paste of existing scenery with minor tweaks, yet, how often we get a new map?
Its clear ZOS neglects pvp, so maybe this silly change is their way of finally putting it down instead putting actual effort to revitalize it with good patches and new content.

code65536

What about going half-way? Limit queuing to solo or duo. No 3- or 4-person premades.

Olupajmibanan

code65536 wrote: »

What about going half-way? Limit queuing to solo or duo. No 3- or 4-person premades.

This has been brought many many times. Prepare to get bashed for comment like this, because a lot of players in this thread simply can't pull their heads out of their "you know the cave". Opinions like "innocent cute solo players would get completely smash-stomped by these overpowered brutal 120kg of pure mass duo players" are nothing uncommon here.

Gravord

code65536 wrote: »

What about going half-way? Limit queuing to solo or duo. No 3- or 4-person premades.

Still would prefer my solution from page earlier:

Gravord wrote: »

As i wrote in another topic before it was shut down, fixing and improving Bgs would be very easy:

3 types of q for Battlegrounds:
1. Solo q only, fast matches
2. Any group size q, slightly slower matches, teams of 2-3-4 take priority and solo players filling up the gaps to complete full 4 man setup.
3. Premade vs premade in 4vs4 arena, deathmatch only. Slowest pop rate but highest competition level. Could be additionally implemented with option of guild vs guild challenge as many other games have.

Solo player can q for nr 1 or 2 or both to speed up your q.
Group of 2-3 can choose only option 2.
Full premade option 2 and 3 but with 3 always taking priority to pop if theres another 4 man in q.

Simple, effective, not penalizing ppl putting effort to organize themselves in a multiplayer game yet giving solo q fair playing field with 2 options to choose from.

If current change on PTS goes live it will be disaster to BGs. They will experience population boon, for a week tops, and it will quickly dissapear as players who are not so fond of Bgs in the first place will once again rediscover its not their thing and theres no premades left to blame. In the same time ppl who were putting solid hours into this type of content will reduce their playtime or quit entirely as they wont be able q with their friends, family or guild mates any longer. Keep in mind their are entire guilds out there whose sole purpose is BG activity.
On the other hand, my way of changing BG q would greatly increase its activity. Super fast solo pops for solo games only, quite fast games for any group size and something ESO really need - official 4vs4 fights on top level.

Strider__Roshin

Gravord wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

If you read the entire thread you'll see the majority of the concerns regarding the change is the ability to play with you're wife/husband/partner/friend ie duos and the main reason we even play this game. I promise you its not about stomping pugs. These concerns doesn't really need any testing since we know we won't be able to play with our partner.

I'm sure down the road they are going to make a duo and a group queue where duos can face other duos and full groups can play against other groups.

Whoah, take away content we already have to maybe give it later down the road, awesome, im so happy to hear it!!...

Solo q only is a horrible idea that will only destroy bg scene and cause disband of many bg oriented guilds. Its team content, not a solo one.

Speaking for myself only, but the solo only queue is definitely making the game a lot more enticing to return to. If they buff Nightblades so that they can perform as well as other classes with an equally skilled player I would definitely login again. Right now as a solo PvPer my options are to get zerged down or face the pre-mades rocking the tank meta which supposedly doesn't exist in non-CP. At least you and your friend, spouse, etc have Cyrodiil. Solo players have nothing.

Strider__Roshin

code65536 wrote: »

What about going half-way? Limit queuing to solo or duo. No 3- or 4-person premades.

A glass cannon with a pocket healer will just continue the headaches that we currently have. There should be a solo queue or a 2/4 person queue (can't queue solo). If you try to mix a solo player with any kind of organization it's just going to be an unpleasant experience.

Gravord

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

mikeb16_ESO77 wrote: »

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

dcam86b14_ESO wrote: »

No one in this thread is giving any feed back on actual testing, just whining about not being able to stomp group.

I tested the queue on pts and it was pretty quick and the matches very fluid, you can tell who wants to play and who is trolling.

50% of the matches I did someone on either teams was just afk farming.
Probably protesting lol

If you read the entire thread you'll see the majority of the concerns regarding the change is the ability to play with you're wife/husband/partner/friend ie duos and the main reason we even play this game. I promise you its not about stomping pugs. These concerns doesn't really need any testing since we know we won't be able to play with our partner.

I'm sure down the road they are going to make a duo and a group queue where duos can face other duos and full groups can play against other groups.

Whoah, take away content we already have to maybe give it later down the road, awesome, im so happy to hear it!!...

Solo q only is a horrible idea that will only destroy bg scene and cause disband of many bg oriented guilds. Its team content, not a solo one.

Speaking for myself only, but the solo only queue is definitely making the game a lot more enticing to return to. If they buff Nightblades so that they can perform as well as other classes with an equally skilled player I would definitely login again. Right now as a solo PvPer my options are to get zerged down or face the pre-mades rocking the tank meta which supposedly doesn't exist in non-CP. At least you and your friend, spouse, etc have Cyrodiil. Solo players have nothing.

2 man is not viable in lagfest Cyrodiil and its not a single player game to cater to solo playstyle by design.
I want small instanced fight with fast q times, not riding my horse for 5 mins for 3s encounter. My solution gives you bg for solo q's only btw.

Olupajmibanan

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

What about going half-way? Limit queuing to solo or duo. No 3- or 4-person premades.

A glass cannon with a pocket healer will just continue the headaches that we currently have. There should be a solo queue or a 2/4 person queue (can't queue solo). If you try to mix a solo player with any kind of organization it's just going to be an unpleasant experience.

Another solo player with head stuck in his "you know which cave". You guys simply cannot understand that queueing together as a pair isn't with intent to pug stomp. There are definitely some of these, but the total vast majority of pairs queuing together don't even think about it, they just queue for fun and enjoyment of time spent together in BGs.

It's the full 4-premades which do this. Well, majority of them. Why don't you target your hatred towards real cause. This way innocents (duo players) suffer the most.

Gravord

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

What about going half-way? Limit queuing to solo or duo. No 3- or 4-person premades.

A glass cannon with a pocket healer will just continue the headaches that we currently have. There should be a solo queue or a 2/4 person queue (can't queue solo). If you try to mix a solo player with any kind of organization it's just going to be an unpleasant experience.

Another solo player with head stuck in his "you know which cave". You guys simply cannot understand that queueing together as a pair isn't with intent to pug stomp. There are definitely some of these, but the total vast majority of pairs queuing together don't even think about it, they just queue for fun and enjoyment of time spent together in BGs.

It's the full 4-premades which do this. Well, majority of them. Why don't you target your hatred towards real cause. This way innocents (duo players) suffer the most.

Real cause if you want to talk about it, its ppl lazyness to form their own groups. They want enter solo to designated 4 man team encounters, run solo headless chicken mode without any attempt to co-op with their team mates and then obvious outcome of that playstyle catches with them. But instead accept responsibility for this fail, improve their team play and perhaps organize own teams - they choose to bash on ppl who do so and in proper crybaby fashion demand penalizing, hell delegalizing putting that effort and catering to their mindless gameplay only. Thats your real cause this silly change showed up on pts.

mav1234

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

Speaking for myself only, but the solo only queue is definitely making the game a lot more enticing to return to. If they buff Nightblades so that they can perform as well as other classes with an equally skilled player I would definitely login again. Right now as a solo PvPer my options are to get zerged down or face the pre-mades rocking the tank meta which supposedly doesn't exist in non-CP. At least you and your friend, spouse, etc have Cyrodiil. Solo players have nothing.

I don't understand this for two reasons: first, because of how cyrodil works, solos and duos need to play very similarly and well yes a duo may have more success it isn't as if it is a magic bullet to the reason you dont want to solo in cyrodil - those frustrations are 100% still present for a duo.
And second, the combat, speed of access to it, nature of builds being different all make cyrodil and bgs hard to compare and, imo, not a good alternative option...
And none of that is to say some people are doing bgs with partners for the daily.
IMO, duos aren't going to wreck bgs for everyone, especially not in the way 4 mans can, and having them in the same queue will keep queues popping faster for everyone. Tanky healers are a problem no matter how many partners they queue with, and so that is something zos needs to address separately...

I still support two queues: solo/duo (no more than 1 duo on a team tho) and 4 person queue (with its own leaderboard, maybe a 30 day one, and the queue could be advertised as competitive).