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Is it rude to tell someone "l2p"?
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BNOC✭✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »InvictusApollo wrote: »What an awesome example of how beneficial "l2p" (in this case "learn to post") can be. One person wasn't aware of their mistakes in formatting and anothernotified them. In result said person probably had some negative emotion arise in their heart but said emotion served as a motivating force to discover what exactly is wrong with their posting. Ultimately said person will learn how to properly post and become a little bit better person, since knowledge increases ones value.
That one would be for @Darkenarlol to answer, but I'm quite ready to bet that he/she currently is feeling more negatively about being told "L2..." , even by some stranger on the internet, and even for demonstration purposes, than he/she's feeling positively for having realized that his/her posts aren't properly formatted.
Pain is the source of the best motivation. Without it there would be no progress or even life.
Well I am going to call bollocks on that.
Whipping people doesn't make them learn faster. It just makes you a sadistic bully.
"Sadistic bully?" Jesus, that's a bit OTT.
Taking a beating in this context either pushes you to get stronger or pushes you in to finding safety amongst numbers, just like animals.
People who equate anything in ESO as "sadistic bully(ing)" probably find safety amongst numbers.
Become a Great White, not a Krill.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.There are better ways to say it. L2P is intended to be condescending.11 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.InvictusApollo wrote: »We often see people call for nerfs out of pure ignorance. They are making some obvious mistakes. Whether it is the lack of experience or knowledge about game mechanics the fact is obvious that had they learned how to play, they wouldn't have the issues that made them call for a nerf.
In all those threads we see other people saying: "l2p", which stands to: "learn to play". Some people offer education in the topic that is being discussed. While others simply notify the nerf caller about his/her need to increase his/her skill or widen game knowledge. The intention here is good: educate or notify about the importance of education, in order to help the nerf caller overcome his/her issues and have more fun playing the game. However some people consider this condescending or even insulting.
What is your opinion?
Yeah, it's rude. It's also useless and condescending advice and proves the person saying it has nothing of worth to say and should have probably just stayed out of the conversation all together or simply kept their mouth shut. In short: it's something people say when they just want to be annoying.
Offering substantive advice that includes actual and productive information on how one might play better is a different matter - assuming it's respectfully given.Edited by Jeremy on October 9, 2019 3:32PM4 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other (type in comment)In most of those topics where L2P arrises it's because someone is just screaming "This is OP, nerf it ZoS, nerf it with your mighty NerdHammer!!!"
If someone could create a reasonably sound argument against a skill, set, or other thing they feel is overperforming, backed up with evidence and offering solutions/compromises. Then I feel the term wouldn't be thrown around as much.
So I suppose it should be
Learn to create an argument based on evidence that would justify the necessity of a balance change to said skill or set. And not based on your inability to counter said skill or set.
So L2CAABOETWJTNOABC2SSOS.ANBOYI2CSSORPvP needs more love.3 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.You can offer advice without being a jerk. All in the approach.
If you start off with “L2p” your primary goal is to clown or shame said person.5 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.Darkenarlol wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Darkenarlol wrote: »
my posts are formated the way i want them to be
@InvictusApollo : and heeere you go. Result of an "L2..." . Someone's hurt, nobody learns.
are you hurt?
because i'm definitely not
more than that it looks like you've started
your "intentionally rude example" line
without even reading my first post
and turned it into this pointless mess
so... l2read
ofc you're not gonna do that because
you are allready such a smart and wonderfull person
(or at least your ma says that and why should she lie to you, right?)
What a sick burrrrn! I love it! I almost forgave you not usin capital letters at the start of sentences
Not that I expect you to care about my opinion as you seem to be similar to me in that fashion 2 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My behavior patterns change while I am in PvP. I become very evil at times because I deal with some very vicious players.
One day I was leaving Nik and 2 AD tried to gank me. I killed them both then messaged one and said, "lol.. L2P noob". The player got very upset. At one point I think he was having a panic attack. Our conversation went silent, and I asked if he was OK. He replied.. "No.. I'm not". I felt bad and said, "sorry" which made everything better.
Telling someone to L2P can have a very bad outcome. I suggest using it very wisely.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)2 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other (type in comment)No. Not at all. There are so many players on eso that play like utter monkeys and run totally nonsensical setups. But still think they are the deal.
You have to tell them. Otherwise they spread their lack os sense and skill into other people and dumbing down more and more people.
It is already bad. If you do sick dps, you get called names. Because you practiced and so on. Only in eso do you get praised for being an utter monkey player and called names for being good.
And you then dare to tell them monkeys how to improve, you are the ultra toxic elitist. Again, only in eso.
Being bad gets you respect in this community. If you are good you are a toxic elitist, cheater, Hacker, exploiters and macro user.2 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭It's okay when you hear it from a better player, it can be frusrating to hear it from a noob.0
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.If you tell them what they can do better - no.
If you just use it as an insult - yes.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.vamp_emily wrote: »My behavior patterns change while I am in PvP. I become very evil at times because I deal with some very vicious players.
One day I was leaving Nik and 2 AD tried to gank me. I killed them both then messaged one and said, "lol.. L2P noob". The player got very upset. At one point I think he was having a panic attack. Our conversation went silent, and I asked if he was OK. He replied.. "No.. I'm not". I felt bad and said, "sorry" which made everything better.
Telling someone to L2P can have a very bad outcome. I suggest using it very wisely.
I think it was the "lol" and "noob" that put a negative and condescending context in your message. Personally I wouldn't mind anyone saying that to me after such a pathetic failure at ganking. I'd just accept my failure and "git gut".1 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other (type in comment)When 5 guys bang you and they say learn to play, while you killed 3 of them makes me laugh hard...1 -
TirantLoBlanch✭✭✭If you need to say "L2P" you need:
1)Learn to explain. Because L2p makes nothing to improve the gameplay fo the others. This makes them not aware of the mistakes.
2) Learn to understand. Sometimes the mistakes are not imputable to the other player. By example, some ways to clean a certain dungeon are effective only if every one is knowing what´s going on. Skip some pulls, make some big blobs of mobs, use some areas is nor written in stone. There are returned players, people trying new chars or classes, a lot of variables that can make a competent player seem as someone who has to "l2P". If you are not comunincating enough, maybe is you who need to learn this specific aspect of "L2p"
3) Learn to control yourself. "L2P" will make no imporvement in the others gameplay, but will make them angry or sad. You are touching for sure the wrong emoptional key, in yourself and in the others. Threre are plenty of ways to inform a player that in your opinion there are better options to play the game. A "Have you tried that setup?" or "maybe this rotation, tactic, whatever could give you better results", this sort of sentences deflect the negativity out of the player itself. Make him curious to try new apporaches, but not guilty to be a failure as player.
Guilt is not a good fuel for games, i think...
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InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.xMovingTarget wrote: »No. Not at all. There are so many players on eso that play like utter monkeys and run totally nonsensical setups. But still think they are the deal.
You have to tell them. Otherwise they spread their lack os sense and skill into other people and dumbing down more and more people.
It is already bad. If you do sick dps, you get called names. Because you practiced and so on. Only in eso do you get praised for being an utter monkey player and called names for being good.
And you then dare to tell them monkeys how to improve, you are the ultra toxic elitist. Again, only in eso.
Being bad gets you respect in this community. If you are good you are a toxic elitist, cheater, Hacker, exploiters and macro user.
I think it is partly because of all the carebear guilds that care more about peoples feelings than results. I'm not one for bullying, insulting or demeaning people but when someone says to me: "Apollo your dps is <a vulgar synonym for feces>", then I train some more... or at least I did untill I got bored with PvE.
People nowadays are far too sensitive. Not to mention some who maliciously exploit politicall correctness or take it to absurd levels.2 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Other (type in comment)I say redirect it to something else, make them feel uncomfortable.
Them > L2P!
Me > I know how to P. Sometimes I stand, sometimes I sit, for enough gold and crowns all over your lap big daddy.0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Those that think "l2p" is a great chat-up line... are using it as "love to polka"?
I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.Some OP on the forum : "This cheater was able to kill our group of 10 people by himself".
Some poster on the forum: "It's most likely a L2P issue".
L2P alone by itself is most likely meant to be offensive But sometimes it's not. PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
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The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other (type in comment)In PVE without offering any solid advice, YES.
In PVP when it's the enemy you've just killed, NO.
Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
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TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other (type in comment)
Ask Meridia:InvictusApollo wrote: »Is it rude to tell someone "l2p"?
On a more serious note... it would depend. Most of the times it would not be rude, IF used correctly. Preferably with an addendum telling the noob what they are doing wrong, and how they could improve... Some other times, it could be. Especially if used to fend off a valid concern...4 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, ofcourse.Of course, it is.
You don't dismiss someone for being less experienced than you are, for god's sake.
You can give advices, yes. But if they don't want to take them, don't insist, bid them a good day and be on your merry way. In the end, it's their choice, not yours.1 -
upquark✭✭Yes, but only if there wasn't provided any direction on what to exactly learn.I'm around lvl 26, been a while since I've been able to log on (byte me, Steam), but I suck so hard at this game that I'm in constant fear of getting in someone's way. I never go into group areas, never go into dungeons, and try to stay out of everyone's way for fear of messing up someone's play. If I'm on a quest and end up in the same area as other players, I try to help as much as I can as well as stay out of their way; I'm assuming that wouldn't warrant a pi**-off from a better player. My heart's in the right place, anyway. But hey, you never know. Maybe my mere presence has pi**ed someone off.
I think if someone said l2p at me, I'd be mortified. Mainly because I try so hard to stay out of everyone's way. It would mean to me that somehow I managed to screw up their gameplay.0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.its not rude the way i use it.
but i only use it with friends and people that are clearly delusional about certain aspects of the game.1 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.I do think it is rude.
In game, when in a group situation, I find it better to just leave the group, citing "last attempt" or something. Try to help and if folks don't listen or you don't have time, gracefully leave. "This is taking longer than planned and my guild needs me now, sorry gys."
However I think the poll more is talking about the forums, in which case it can not only be rude but I think it often is counterproductive because it dilutes complicated issues with many variables down to a single assumption. In many cases both people in the dialog have valid points if only they would realize that one is talking about console, one is on PC or one is talking about PvP, the other PvE.
L2communicate, in my opinion! Edited by peacenote on October 9, 2019 6:03PM1 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, ofcourse.Just say what was done wrong, mechanics or how to avoid the mistake again.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade
Leveling...
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}2
This discussion has been closed.