Maintenance for the week of January 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 6
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EST (13:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 8, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 13:00 UTC (8:00AM EST)
Is it rude to tell someone "l2p"?
-
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Simply no.TheShadowScout wrote: »
I don't actually find that funny.
There are some, truly sick, individuals who think like that in real life.
...and I don't just mean people in psychiatric hospitals.
I mean people with power.
Is asking for personal competence and accountability sick now?Edited by Rave the Histborn on October 15, 2019 5:05PM0 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.InvictusApollo wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »InvictusApollo wrote: »I have never enjoyed nor even experienced this as I allways strive to excell in everything I do. And whenever anyone told me l2p I allways took it as an occasion to stop for a moment, contemplate and research how I could improve.
You can strive to excell at everything you do but you CANNOT possibly excell at anything and everything you try. You DO have weak points, probably many, like all of us, and things that you cannot improve even when working on them.
It's not polite for someone else to tell you to go correct and work on those things. It's basic social behaviour and instinctive respect of the Other Person with their differences.
If what you say was true, then all the teachers would be automatically "rude people". And for all the other situations you can allways disagree with the need to improve in a specific field. For example if out of the blue someone told me to learn how to do ballet, then I'd just reject their piece of advice and don't even bother.
However if someone told me the same thing after I ruined a ballet show for everyone, then I would humbly accept my inability to master ballet skills in a timely fashion.
Rarely anyone tells you to learn something without reason. Usually that reason is your very poor performance in an activity that includes other people. When your failure negatively affects others it is in my opinion socially acceptable to advise more education. Otherwise the person who has failed either won't have any incentive to learn or might even stay in delusion of being skillfull. Whatever the case is, the lack of call to education will lead to repetition of failure.
Which is worse? Allowing someone to fail miserably over and over or exposing them to a temporary negative emotion that will have a chance of facilitating success for that person?
She's just saying that it's rude and unnecessary to tell someone to l2p.
I've never heard of a professional dance teacher who has told their students to l2b (l2ballet!), or whatever, so I think we're good...
Neither have I but then I don't care about dance teachers. I have however heard:
"learn to count",
"learn to use this formula",
"learn to use citations in your works"
etc.
And btw @Tigerseye are you by any chance from the same guild as @anitajoneb17_ESO , or her friend? It looks like she has used "Summon White Knight" spell
barney2525 wrote: »Of course it is. Speech (and writing) patterns are always a choice.
For example, you can respond to someone by saying either 'you don't seem to understand'. or by saying 'you are an idiot'.
Generally it's just a lack of respect of person being shown by the rude person.
I'd prefer "you are an idiot" over "you don't seem to understand" if the person saying it would actually believe that I'm an idiot. I prefer honesty.
0 -
theyancey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, ofcourse.If some self anointed game arbiter told me that I would suggest that they shove a skeever where Jode and Jone don't shine.4 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
If someone tells you to "l2p" then messes up themselves, you are then perfectly at liberty to return the compliment, without being the rude one.
LOL true I was once msged in a dungeon with the comment "hold taunt fake tank l2p" (along those lines).
I was (and am) a REAL tank, and was getting quite irritated at authornumpty stealing my taunt with his ice staff. I'm normally pretty chill, but I let him have it with both barrels.4 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.I suspect that some players who fire back with "l2p!" when accused of cheating are confusing power with skill.
If you're using the best gear available, have the most powerful skills available slotted on your skill bars, and have all of your attribute points, skill points, and champion points allocated to get the most powerful build possible for your character's race and class, then of course you're going to mop up the competition, and most of the time there won't even be any skill required (unless the competition is more or less equally powerful).
Likewise, you can be the most skillful player ever, and it won't mean squat if you don't have enough power to go up against a powerful monster or enemy player.
Both skill and power are needed-- unless you're ridiculously overpowered, in which case actual skill is much less necessary in many situations.
But if you can melt a powerful boss in seconds by spamming your overpowered AoE DOTs at it, don't pat yourself on the back about what a skillful player you are, because that's an example of power, not skill.
And if you see someone struggling to survive against a powerful enemy because they aren't using adequate gear and skills, don't tell them to "l2p," because it isn't necessarily a case of them not knowing how to play the game.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Rave the Histborn wrote: »Anyone who would say "l2p" without knowing someone's situation--which we can't, ever--needs to learn to people. Just scrolling past something you think is stupid takes less effort than clicking on it and frothing at someone. Either offer a solution, teach the person the thing you think they don't know, or shut the hell up. L2p makes someone look just as stupid as uneducated nerf calls or whatever else they're having a fit over.
Agreed, you can't ever know someone's situation which is why things like "lived experiences" and situations can't and shouldn't be accounted for during a casual interaction. If someone is that mentally unwell that they shouldn't be in an environment like pvp in the first place. That being said it's easier to say "offer a solution, teach the person the thing you think they don't know, or shut the hell up." but it doesn't just work like that. It's similar to sports, most players don't sit around waiting for people to tell them how to improve they constantly practice and watch film to improve themselves. I'd also like to point out that "l2p" is something people say in every professional sport or game at every conceivable level or play. Unless you can human nature and thousands of years of evolution and tribalism then it's something that people are going to have to learn to deal with and over come like every person before them has.
No, it's not.
I used to be in a (competitive) swimming club and no one said "l2s" to anyone.
You were split into groups according to ability (boys and girls in the same groups), the teachers got on with teaching and the swimmers got on with swimming.
None of us were wandering over to the baby pool and telling them to "learn to swim" and then wandering off again.
We just got on with it.
Edited by Tigerseye on October 16, 2019 2:23AM4 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.It's very telling when someone deflects responsibility for their choice of words - words that are well known to be hurtful in their intent - onto the listener. It is wise to steer widely clear of people who do this.
Gaslighters.
We can (almost) all be unnecessarily rude, from time to time (when angry, or frustrated), but most of us at least have the decency to admit we have been, instead of attempting to make the person on the receiving end think they must be crazy.4 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.InvictusApollo wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »It's interesting to see OP agreeing so strongly with that post.
Just wondering if the motive behind that poll is to actually discern if that word is inherently derogatory or if it's merely a convoluted way to obtain some endorsement of the continued use of it as well as the convenient opportunity to do so broadly... with, seemingly, the added bonus of giving free reign and encouraging people to use denigrations to theorize on the rationales behind the recipient's interpretation of "L2P" (which are still IMHO completely irrelevant).
My perception is that the OP lives, or desperately wishes to live, in a totally binary representation of the world where there are two categories of people - and only 2 : the ones who know, and the ones who don't know. The former are entitled to (and even must) teach to the latter in any shape or form, and the latter should try and learn by all means from the former in order to belong to them at some stage.
The reality of things is of course far more complicated than that - but that's something the OP is not ready to learn yet.
You do know that talking about someone adn referring to them with third person, while they are next to you, is... rude
No, it's not.
You must have self esteem and/or mental health issues, if you take it that way.
At the very least, you're oversensitive.
I hope no one in my country ever becomes oversensitive, like you.Edited by Tigerseye on October 16, 2019 3:24AM2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Rave the Histborn wrote: »
Friend 1: Man you missed that item
Friend 2: Oh man, how'd I miss that?
Friend 1: LOL You gotta l2p man, you suck at this game
Friend 2: HAHAHA i gotta git gud dude
Well, of course it's OK between friends, who both know each other well enough to know it comes from a place of humour and that no malice is intended.
But, we are not talking about that, here.
We are talking about people who say it to complete strangers.
In which case, it is; a) impolite (rude), when said without further explanation of how they should go about doing that and it is b) impolite, unnecessary and counterproductive, if said with further explanation.
Boyfriend started this thing with me about how he was ugly (he's not) and didn't deserve me (he doesn't, but not for that reason :P) and I used to go along with it, as a joke.
We also had a thing where he accused me of having a (physically) big head (I do) and made jokes about it and I accused him of having a small head (he does); again, as an inside joke.
None of this meant anything bad to us, as we knew neither of us meant it.
However, one day we were doing the former in a bar (he started it - he always did) and a musician overheard us and started (mildly) insulting me, as he thought I was some sort of narcissist, genuinely going along with my boyfriend saying he was too ugly for me and the poor guy was trying to (subtly) defend him.
So, you have to be careful with this stuff...
These inside jokes and banter.
If you say stuff that sounds rude to, or around, strangers of course they will assume your intention was to be rude and telling them they are mentally ill, or oversensitive, if they do that, is gaslighting.Edited by Tigerseye on October 16, 2019 3:50AM2 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.InvictusApollo wrote: »Honestly what's the point of this poll? It should not even be a poll as you are bashing everyone who thinks it is rude because you think it's not. Learn to take opinions. Otherwise don't make polls
Actually if you read thoroughly it is the selfrigtheous "polite" people who are trying to bash me and others. I have merely uncovered their real faces just by staying calm through their rude insults.
No one is covering their "real face".
Most people here know how to be rude and many people will have been rude, from time to time (normally, with good reason).
I know I certainly have, because (as you may have noticed) I'm quite outspoken, when given the opportunity.
The issue is being rude and then pretending you haven't been and/or accusing others of being crazy/oversensitive, if they dare to say something (which we all know is impolite*), is "rude".
Don't say it, if you won't own it, in other words.
You've outed yourself as a gaslighter and almost certainly, also, a troll.
That is the issue here.
* Unless it is said in a close knit group of friends, who understand it's said as an inside joke.Edited by Tigerseye on October 16, 2019 4:48AM5 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.I will also add that being polite is, obviously, a choice.
No one, by choosing to be polite (and/or suggesting others do the same), is automatically claiming they couldn't equally well choose to be rude, or that they have no capacity to be rude.
No one is suggesting they are a saint - they are just suggesting that people, ideally, choose politeness over rudeness.
They are not "hiding their true face", they are merely choosing to not insult people, unless (in some cases) those other people choose to insult them, or others, first.2 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭Other (type in comment)
Sure "L2P" rude, but a single usage of 3 letters is a relatively mild example of rudeness. I'm quite amused that several people here have been considerably more (even aggressively) rude in their desire to state how rude it is to say "L2P". You can't claim the moral high ground by worse person than the person you're criticising.
0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Rave the Histborn wrote: »TheShadowScout wrote: »
I don't actually find that funny.
There are some, truly sick, individuals who think like that in real life.
...and I don't just mean people in psychiatric hospitals.
I mean people with power.
Is asking for personal competence and accountability sick now?
She is not "asking for personal competance and accountability", she is saying that real life is a game, people are just pawns in that game and the pawns who fail/refuse to play the game well are destined to become sacrifices to it.
If you can't see what is wrong with viewing living people as pawns in a game and then sacrificing some of them, if they fail to come up to certain standards (in someone else's, perhaps warped, opinion), I really don't know what else to say?
In my version of a game like that, you would become one of the sacrifices (if I was forced to choose some) - does that not concern you?
Because, it concerns me - I may disagree with you, but I don't hate you, or want you dead.2 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.redlink1979 wrote: »People can teach others without being rude or without depreciating them.
We are all newbies at some point, either in game or IRL, aren't we?
Yes, I agree, but people are going to have different views on what they think would be offensive to themselves.
For example, I think L2P is rude - as it is a direct slap to the player. But on the other hand, I myself recognize when I am a Noob in various aspects of gameplay, so I have no problem at those times if I am referred to as a Noob and do not consider it rude.
Everyone has their own individual tolerances. 0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other (type in comment)How do you stop getting notifications from a single thread?0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »How do you stop getting notifications from a single thread?
Unclick the star next to the thread title.0 -
Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Never in the history of Online-Gaming was l2p used as a suggestion. It is ment as an insult.
If someone really thinks someone else has to learn something, they engage in a conversation and not use an Abbreviation.
Its like telling a poor person to just "get more money".8 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other (type in comment)jainiadral wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »How do you stop getting notifications from a single thread?
Unclick the star next to the thread title.
Alas, that does not work (star was never ticked). I just turned off all notifications in the end
0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »jainiadral wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »How do you stop getting notifications from a single thread?
Unclick the star next to the thread title.
Alas, that does not work (star was never ticked). I just turned off all notifications in the end
Oh, bummer
I shut off all my forum notifications long ago, so when I started getting a billion emails for a thread I'd never read, I found out I'd accidentally clicked on the star.
I don't think there's another way to avoid getting bombarded from threads you get sick of aside from turning everything off.0 -
Thicclady✭✭✭Other (type in comment)It doesn't really mean anything. And most commonly is said by someone who infact don't know how to play much better anyway, but tries to implicate he knows by saying that.3
-
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Rave the Histborn wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »Why would you add a 5th answer just to be contrarian? The reason there isn't a 5th choice in the original poll is because then you get the redundancy of choices 2 & 3 which are the exact same question in the end. You don't need 8 different choices when the answers should be boiled down to "Yes, No, Other."
I added a 5th answer to 1/ follow the original pattern 2/ offer a neutral option.
Yes the answers could be boiled down to yes/no/other or even yes/no BUT that's exactly what the OP did NOT do. He chose to spread them over several options, full and mild (why not), but he did not do it evenly and chose misleading formulations.Rave the Histborn wrote: »It wasn't until you were informed that you don't seem to understand how to read polls that you got mad at the choices..../...It was pointed out to you that your perception of the answer was wrong and it was explained to you (Yes, but only if there wasn't provided any direction on what to exactly learn. Remember this?)
Yup. That's when OP "explained" that his "No, but" actually means yes that he proved, all by himself, that the poll was biased because 3 answers were meant to mean "no" and only one was meant to be "yes", which makes it a wrongly designed poll. Got it ?Rave the Histborn wrote: »Instead of accepting the advice and taking the loss you've attacked the pollster, the poll, all of the answer choices.
Why do you think people aren't wasting their time explaining things. I'm not here to teach you how to do the things your should know only to be told that I'm wrong.
I'm explaining because the OP expressedly asked me to.
And this poll IS wrongly done, that's an objective fact, whether you like it or not. And yes, you are 100% wrong. Sorry. Time for you to LEARN.
If l2p was really rude it would be a majority consensus and not open for debate. Even your side of "yes, it's like living through the Holocaust" doesn't have majority consensus on it.
I know I'm going to regret posting this, but it's entirely possible that a majority of people who were attracted to the poll in the first place were rude. That's assuming that your interpretation of the poll options is correct. Can you trust a rude audience to set standards for manners?
Since we have no way of analyzing the actions of every poll respondent to determine whether they tend to be adherents of mannerly behavior, your assumption might well be flawed.1 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, ofcourse.The other day I was watching a youtuber.
He was 1 vs 12 and he wiped them all out and one of the players who got wiped, whispered this:
"You suck as always, l2p"
You could almost feel the salt coming out of screen, it was hilarious
Edited by Cirantille on October 16, 2019 10:32AM2 -
Nevaee✭✭Yes, ofcourse.Guys, it is a G A M E !
You don't lecture others. Show respect and have some manners.
Edited by Nevaee on October 16, 2019 12:40PMIn Game EU Guild (German): Grollwerk4 -
Eraldus✭✭✭✭Other (type in comment)Most people that says stuff like "gid gud" or "l2p", are people that either wants to troll and bait the poster, or will do so in attempt to dismiss an issue or feedback brought up by the poster, because they want to feel superior and make themselves feel better.
The best way to deal with those people, is to just ignore them and don't give them the attention they seek.1 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've closed this thread as it is no longer constructive.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site3
This discussion has been closed.