Is it rude to tell someone "l2p"?

Sirvaleen

Yes, ofcourse.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

We often see people call for nerfs out of pure ignorance. They are making some obvious mistakes. Whether it is the lack of experience or knowledge about game mechanics the fact is obvious that had they learned how to play, they wouldn't have the issues that made them call for a nerf.
In all those threads we see other people saying: "l2p", which stands to: "learn to play". Some people offer education in the topic that is being discussed. While others simply notify the nerf caller about his/her need to increase his/her skill or widen game knowledge. The intention here is good: educate or notify about the importance of education, in order to help the nerf caller overcome his/her issues and have more fun playing the game. However some people consider this condescending or even insulting.
What is your opinion?

I'm not sure you can generalize there, since from what I've seen "people calling for nerfs" in some threads happen to also be amongst the ones answering with "l2p" in others. Same point for the intention(s) behind those "l2p", whether or not they subsequently elaborate to "educate" the persons they're addressing.

That's only my opinion, and why I'll continue to have fun in that game as a solo player mainly.

Cheers.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Yes, ofcourse.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

What an awesome example of how beneficial "l2p" (in this case "learn to post") can be. One person wasn't aware of their mistakes in formatting and anothernotified them. In result said person probably had some negative emotion arise in their heart but said emotion served as a motivating force to discover what exactly is wrong with their posting. Ultimately said person will learn how to properly post and become a little bit better person, since knowledge increases ones value.

That one would be for @Darkenarlol to answer, but I'm quite ready to bet that he/she currently is feeling more negatively about being told "L2..." , even by some stranger on the internet, and even for demonstration purposes, than he/she's feeling positively for having realized that his/her posts aren't properly formatted.

FierceSam

Yes, ofcourse.

If you are genuinely trying to provide useful feedback and advice it is unlikely you will be saying L2P

L2P is what losers say

Darkenarlol

Other (type in comment)

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I was trying to be "intentionally rude" to demonstrate that it is rude to say "learn to..." to anyone even if they objectively should learn to, unlike what you've said.

Like you should obviously learn to post because your posts are horribly formatted (it's probably the fault of the device you're using, but still).

my posts are formated the way i want them to be

so it is intentional too


as for your opinion...i don't care just like i've said before

but it is funny to see how you're acting "intentionally rude"

just " to demonstrate" while judjing others for this kind of behavior


nice performance but you're still far away from

"double standards master 2019" title

keep trying and maybe you'll excell one day

i beleive in your success, best of luck on your journey

starkerealm

Yes, but only if there wasn't provided any direction on what to exactly learn.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

I think it's rude. You never know what's going on with the other person. For all you know they could have problems or be a young child

Everyone has problems. It's called "life".

So it's OK to tell someone in a wheelchair to "get up and walk" ? Just because "everyone has problems, it's life" ?

No it is not. And it is obviously not what I meant thus I would appreciate if you weren't putting words in my mouth. As it is very rude to put anything in someones mouth without their consent.

*Lobs a Cannoli at @InvictusApollo's mouth.*

But, yeah, just outright telling someone, "L2P" is rude. Giving advice can be, or may not be, it's all in the approach.

InvictusApollo

No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

What an awesome example of how beneficial "l2p" (in this case "learn to post") can be. One person wasn't aware of their mistakes in formatting and anothernotified them. In result said person probably had some negative emotion arise in their heart but said emotion served as a motivating force to discover what exactly is wrong with their posting. Ultimately said person will learn how to properly post and become a little bit better person, since knowledge increases ones value.

That one would be for @Darkenarlol to answer, but I'm quite ready to bet that he/she currently is feeling more negatively about being told "L2..." , even by some stranger on the internet, and even for demonstration purposes, than he/she's feeling positively for having realized that his/her posts aren't properly formatted.

Pain is the source of the best motivation. Without it there would be no progress or even life.

Skullderic

Other (type in comment)

Most players that type that are simple minded, Tend to rage when they see someone better then they are.

PvP ~ PvE ` For the most part someone will always be a better player then you & That's ok.

Like most others, i play to have fun & I know some stuff in-game I suck at, some I don't.

(Mostly PvP) Dueling someone, If thats all they do ofcorse they should be good at it.

You see this in most zones, a PvP player (or atleast geared for it) randomly trys to duel other players.
On winning, the l2p pops!

Its one of those things you should take w/ a grain of salt, because if they lose the EMO CHILD (rage) comes out & you'll still get the l2p pop!

(Love 2 Play)

InvictusApollo

No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.

starkerealm wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

I think it's rude. You never know what's going on with the other person. For all you know they could have problems or be a young child

Everyone has problems. It's called "life".

So it's OK to tell someone in a wheelchair to "get up and walk" ? Just because "everyone has problems, it's life" ?

No it is not. And it is obviously not what I meant thus I would appreciate if you weren't putting words in my mouth. As it is very rude to put anything in someones mouth without their consent.

*Lobs a Cannoli at @InvictusApollo's mouth.*

But, yeah, just outright telling someone, "L2P" is rude. Giving advice can be, or may not be, it's all in the approach.

*Masterfully intercepts said Cannoli. Then assumes threatening posture and asks:* Do you have a problem?!

ArchangelIsraphel

Yes, ofcourse.

You don't need to preface advice with "learn to play". Its rude, and there's no need to be condescending when attempting to teach someone else something. People are more receptive to learning when they aren't made to feel as though someone else is holding their knowledge over their head.

DCZergNoob

Simply no.

lol

starkerealm

Yes, but only if there wasn't provided any direction on what to exactly learn.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Do you have a problem?!

Dude, you have no idea.

FierceSam

Yes, ofcourse.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

What an awesome example of how beneficial "l2p" (in this case "learn to post") can be. One person wasn't aware of their mistakes in formatting and anothernotified them. In result said person probably had some negative emotion arise in their heart but said emotion served as a motivating force to discover what exactly is wrong with their posting. Ultimately said person will learn how to properly post and become a little bit better person, since knowledge increases ones value.

That one would be for @Darkenarlol to answer, but I'm quite ready to bet that he/she currently is feeling more negatively about being told "L2..." , even by some stranger on the internet, and even for demonstration purposes, than he/she's feeling positively for having realized that his/her posts aren't properly formatted.

Pain is the source of the best motivation. Without it there would be no progress or even life.

Well I am going to call bollocks on that.

Whipping people doesn't make them learn faster. It just makes you a sadistic bully.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Other (type in comment)

only if its without "GIT GUD"

InvictusApollo

No. There is nothing wrong with educating someone about the source of their problems, when they ask for it.

FierceSam wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

InvictusApollo wrote: »

What an awesome example of how beneficial "l2p" (in this case "learn to post") can be. One person wasn't aware of their mistakes in formatting and anothernotified them. In result said person probably had some negative emotion arise in their heart but said emotion served as a motivating force to discover what exactly is wrong with their posting. Ultimately said person will learn how to properly post and become a little bit better person, since knowledge increases ones value.

That one would be for @Darkenarlol to answer, but I'm quite ready to bet that he/she currently is feeling more negatively about being told "L2..." , even by some stranger on the internet, and even for demonstration purposes, than he/she's feeling positively for having realized that his/her posts aren't properly formatted.

Pain is the source of the best motivation. Without it there would be no progress or even life.

Well I am going to call bollocks on that.

Whipping people doesn't make them learn faster. It just makes you a sadistic bully.

What a shallow thought.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Yes, ofcourse.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

If what you say was true, then all the teachers would be automatically "rude people".

That's entirely different. In this situation both persons have their officially dedicated role and reasons to be there, one is there to teach and is designated, selected and trained to know better and provide evaluation. The other person is there to learn, listen, work and improve.
In the case of ESO, the person who says "L2P" to another hasn't been designated nor acknowledged by the other as being a better-knower or a better doer, (he/she just *thinks* he/she is, and God knows that they're often so very wrong in thinking that), and the person who's receiving the "L2P" or the piece of advice hasn't declared him/herself as a lesser-knower nor has expressed any demand for evaluation or advice. That's what makes it extremely rude.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

Rarely anyone tells you to learn something without reason.

That's extremely optimistic of you to think that, and I think the exact opposite. I think most people who give "advice" and "evaluation" to someone else is either wrong or has ulterior motives, such as hurting the other person , make him/her feel insecure or to bring him/her down in a competitive context.
I used to thin like you when I was younger but life's taught me (the hard way) to ignore and reject any evaluation or advice that I haven't expressedly asked for.
I reckon my position is a bit extreme - but so is yours. I guess the reasonable attitude lies inbetween, for each of us to find out.

But in your example with the ballet, imagine you would end up giving up dancing for the rest of your life... but the "advice" was entirely wrong... ?

Sometimes things are important. For instance, a friend drives horribly and put his/her life in danger, as well as other people's lives : how to tell him that he/she should really learn to drive or give up driving entirely ? That's a touchy one. However, many people simple love to give "driving advice" and to judge other people's way of driving for all kinds of reasons, justified or not. And those people are usually the ones with the most accidents on the road...

Anyway, in the context of something totally unimportant such as ESO, I'll stick to my opinion (and attitude) that it is always wrong to tell "L2P" to another player - unless he specifically asked for evaluation and advice.

xxthir13enxx

Yes, ofcourse.

I don’t think I can physically say “L2p” without a sneer appearing on my face....

anitajoneb17_ESO

Yes, ofcourse.

Darkenarlol wrote: »

my posts are formated the way i want them to be

@InvictusApollo : and heeere you go. Result of an "L2..." . Someone's hurt, nobody learns.

Kaunas

Simply no.

Nah lmao. L2p, ggez, noob is just the way games work. Welcome to the internet amirite.

Darkenarlol

Other (type in comment)

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Darkenarlol wrote: »

my posts are formated the way i want them to be

@InvictusApollo : and heeere you go. Result of an "L2..." . Someone's hurt, nobody learns.

are you hurt?

because i'm definitely not

more than that it looks like you've started

your "intentionally rude example" line

without even reading my first post

and turned it into this pointless mess


so... l2read

ofc you're not gonna do that because

you are allready such a smart and wonderfull person

(or at least your ma says that and why should she lie to you, right?)

ghastley

Yes, ofcourse.

You never tell someone else to learn, you teach them. If they don't want to be taught, then telling them to learn is pointless.

starkerealm

Yes, but only if there wasn't provided any direction on what to exactly learn.

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

I don’t think I can physically say “L2p” without a sneer appearing on my face....

You might be able to say it with a smirk. That's an option, and technically different.

eso_lags

Other (type in comment)

It might be a little rude but sometimes its true, sometimes its not. Just depends on the situation..

But heres a bit of a warning to everyone that uses that acronym on the forums..

According to zenimax its against the TOS. At least for certain people since, I'll say a friend of mine, was banned for saying it a while back, maybe 6 months.. Just L2P, nothing else.. Meanwhile there were, and have been, thousands upon thousands of posts of people saying the same thing, and worse along with it, that have not been banned. And it continues every day, thousands of posts remain up and nothing has happened.. Not that anyone should be banned for saying L2P, but this is zos logic.

So in the words of one of the forum mods "Obviously, the sentiment behind the phrase isn't the nicest, however context is the most important." They also went on to explain that saying L2P wasn't against the rules unless it included something else that might be considered baiting along with it.

Of course after they realized that my friend was banned by another mod for only saying L2P, and nothing else, they went back on that statement and pretty much said context doesn't matter and just saying L2P alone is considered baiting.

This is just a heads up. Rude or not, zos may or may not ban you depending on what mod sees it and how they decided to follow the rules that day. Maybe even who you are, like if you are on their bad side. I can only assume this since I cant see any other reasoning to make up the rules as you go, and to only enforce those rules against a small, small, amount of people while allowing the majority of other users to do the same exact thing on a daily basis, for years.

Starlock

Yes, ofcourse.

I find it stupid more than I find it rude. There are many ways to play. Just because someone doesn't play your way doesn't mean they need to stop playing their way to play your way. I mean, dear gods, my version of "learn to play" would remove all the fashion blights from the face of Tamriel. And there are a lot of them. Like, a lot of them. I can't believe how many folks design their characters in a way that makes them look like they came out of a rainbow's arse.

AhPook_Is_Here

Other (type in comment)

It seems like such an insincere question, but follow your bliss, you won't get banned for it.

technohic

Yes, ofcourse.

Isn't the intent to be rude? If you really want someone sincerely to learn, you are better off being more specific on what they are not getting.

Araneae6537

Yes, ofcourse.

Absolutely.

It is also extremely rude to charge in and start combat when an experienced player has stopped to kindly point out the key mechanics of a fight.

I have been fortunate to have not yet encountered the former (indeed, many experienced players have been courteous and helpful) but have occasionally seen the latter.

Grianasteri

Yes, ofcourse.

InvictusApollo wrote: »

We often see people call for nerfs out of pure ignorance. They are making some obvious mistakes. Whether it is the lack of experience or knowledge about game mechanics the fact is obvious that had they learned how to play, they wouldn't have the issues that made them call for a nerf.
In all those threads we see other people saying: "l2p", which stands to: "learn to play". Some people offer education in the topic that is being discussed. While others simply notify the nerf caller about his/her need to increase his/her skill or widen game knowledge. The intention here is good: educate or notify about the importance of education, in order to help the nerf caller overcome his/her issues and have more fun playing the game. However some people consider this condescending or even insulting.
What is your opinion?

of course its rude, its basically just an insult, without any context.

Instead, offer constructive feedback. Try to highlight what is being done wrong, in your opinion, and how this can be improved, in your opinion.

Sadly it often makes little difference and you will still get a torrent of abuse just for trying to help.

Example... Vet dungeon, tank not maintaining aggro, boss cutting lose and 1 shotting group, wipes.
Constructive feedback: Hey buddy I noticed you are losing aggro on the boss, so the group are taking boss hits, if possible please try to keep your taunt up more regularly. Cheers.
Reply: F*&~# YOU!!!! You are not healing that is why group is going down!
Constructive feedback: I cannot heal the group through 1 shot mechs that deal tens of thousands of damage in one go, the hits were talking about are 50k - 100k+ etc. Usually only a tank blocking can survive these consistently.
Reply: F%$£~ YOU! YOU f&*"$ing "&*$, %^&*£$ "£"(&*£(*%&"&£^%%$~@ NOOB f"%*@ }~&"!

*Sigh*

nafensoriel

Other (type in comment)

Technically yes Functionally no.

Technically yes it's rude because you are telling someone how to use their own purchased entertainment product. It is not your place to tell anyone how to use their property for any reason unless it impacts you in a tangible way(note a video game is intangible by nature).

IE if someone wants to play a hybrid bow shooting staff-wielding healthstammag DPS they can. It's their money, their time, their dreams.

Functionally though it is not rude if done properly. A person might not know the minutia of the game. They might have simple ignorance due to not having the time or wherewithal to invest in looking at videos or reading forums etc. In this case a polite "Can I help you use your class better?" is often wanted and positive. Just be prepared to accept the truth of the first statement. If they don't want to play that way YOU have no right to tell them differently.

cheifsoap

Simply no.

There are so many snowflakes these days you can't even breathe in their general direction without someone getting offended. Just look at social media and this thread.

Kagukan

Yes, ofcourse.

Git gud noob!