Bad/clueless/unwilling to learn people in dungeons

SipofMaim

VaranisArano wrote: »

I do absolutely agree its a problem with ZOS encouraging players to grind the same content over and over again until players hit the very natural wall of boredom where it becomes a matter of pushing through to get done as fast as possible.

Its one reason I PUG, actually. The mechanics and Bosses stay the same, but my random groupmates are different and often quite entertaining.

Tanking for PUGs is gratifying because the noob experience is going to be smoother with somebody controlling the room, but my favorite thing is people who are in there literally for the first time, and not so nervous or jaded they can't enjoy the story, or the little surprises that are only surprising once. That's fun.

idk

Rungar wrote: »

Seems counterproductive to me to chase players away but thats the model.

Not the model at all if you are speaking of game design. LOL. There are guilds throughout the game that help players learn the game and then other guilds that help them improve further all the way from causal guilds to strong trial raiding guilds.

GF was never designed as a learning tool. Players truly interested in learning the game and getting better gain a greater advantage via well run guilds.

Rungar wrote: »

the design is bad because it doesnt really engage players. Everyone who runs dungeons wants to get it over with as soon as possible to get the keys or helm.

theres no time to do the quests, barely enough time to talk to another player lest you get left in the dust.
if a player isnt working out more often they are kicked and replaced until someone does work out.

many of these problems are not really player related. Players will always be a mixed bag with the groupfinder.

the problem is the linear design and over reliance on boss fights/boss fight mechanics to make the content.

its a lazy design. Why expect more from players? Is not the whole point of high dps to avoid the mechanics?

its not just the lower end players.

GF was never intended to be a baby sitter. It was intended for one purpose and one purpose only, to help form groups. You are correct about the "mixed bag" of players when asking for a completely random group of players via GF. If a player has a specific interest when doing the dungeon then it just makes sense to form your own group with that in mind.

Further, and it works amazingly well, forming a group from guild members works so perfectly as they tend to have more patience with players doing quests or even learning a new role. It works so well I am surprised more have not thought of that. Oh, they have.

It is pretty much the same way with most major games.

VaranisArano

SipofMaim wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I do absolutely agree its a problem with ZOS encouraging players to grind the same content over and over again until players hit the very natural wall of boredom where it becomes a matter of pushing through to get done as fast as possible.

Its one reason I PUG, actually. The mechanics and Bosses stay the same, but my random groupmates are different and often quite entertaining.

Tanking for PUGs is gratifying because the noob experience is going to be smoother with somebody controlling the room, but my favorite thing is people who are in there literally for the first time, and not so nervous or jaded they can't enjoy the story, or the little surprises that are only surprising once. That's fun.

Definitely! Some of my favorite normal dungeon PUG experiences have been with people who are there for the first time and we all pulled together so they had a good time.

Iskiab

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

ESO has really easy overland content, which is a good thing. If someone wants to they can watch tv and be semi-afk while playing.

Problem is ESO is also extremely complex and takes a willingness to learn. I wouldn’t bother trying to teach people, they have to want to learn. Just join a pve guild. What really sucks is if your main guild is pvp, no one wants to do pve and you’re stuck with pugs.

Not really you can have upto 5 guilds on each account. I have 2 PvE guilds and one Trading guild on my account ATM.

Yea, issue is moreso on alts. When I’m playing I’m mostly pvping so can’t commit to trials really. When I joined pve guilds thinking I’d play with them people develop cliques and since I’m not available a lot I didn’t join any.

People are apprehensive about doing stuff like vet scalecaller without people they know well because if they’re still learning it can take a while. Everyone who’s mastered pve doesn’t want to run countless people through because it gets boring.

I get it, I’ve been in their position before and I’m not complaining, it’s just the way it is.

b95fister

Huyen wrote: »

The biggest issue is that new players are only taught one thing the past few years: MOAR DPS! All they see is people running ahead in normal dungeons, soloing everything. They dont learn about tactics, rotations and such anymore, because the minor group of players (usally the 10% that wants a quick clear) doesnt got the patience to teach the new people.

Long story short: Its an infinite loop of the people creating an issue, that they in the end hate.

You are wrong. Dead wrong. I always offer help either type/voice comms offer to make/buy/upgrade gear for anyone that wants to get better. The vast majority just wanna play the the way they want and be carried...long story short

Tigerseye

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

Then dont pug?

What is that supposed to even mean:

• You play with people you know and are fine with them not knowing anything even with a high CP number
• You expect basic things like what I described in my OP, but then the question is why you expect those things of the people you play with, and not the general player population

Because, when you choose to group with random people, you automatically agree (knowingly, or unknowingly) to group with people of any and every skill and/or experience level.

If you want to be picky, don't PUG.

Tigerseye

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Or maybe they decide they want to explore the world and quest first?

But the dungeons ARE in the game world. It's like ZOS put them there so you can walk in (you know, maybe because some Undaunted dude in a tavern challenged you to go inside) but whoa! You can't solo it at level 10 or whatever while you're wandering around the game world.
Seems like the design is a bit weird.

In FFXIV and SWL if you try to walk into a dungeon, you get the Group Finder.

But some people choose to experience the quests first and get to know the game BEFORE doing group content

Yes and why do they do that?

Because they are probably scared they will be treated like cr*p and/or lectured endlessly, if they join on a low level, no CP char, lol.

So, they wait and still end up in the same situation and also, are then being challenged about why they didn't choose to do it sooner.

You couldn't make it up...

FearlessOne_2014

As the what most of the post on the forums say without saying.

YOU PUG WITH RANDOMS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN.

Outside of the above. You have little right to expect like minded players looking to seriously clear the Vet DLC Content in PUG groups. Nearly everyone who have posted on this thread says the same thing as I. They just are doing it in the political correct way.

Again IF YOU PUG WITH RANDOM PLAYERS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN. To complain or do anything else and expect to win. Is very nonsensical and foolhardy.

Tigerseye

Raisin wrote: »

I don't believe one second that you're all saints claiming you'd never get annoyed by getting a *** PUG.

Firstly, getting exasperated privately and expressing that exasperation publicly are two separate things.

Secondly, if I choose to join a PUG, I know I choose to accept whatever I get.

That isn't saint-like; it's just pragmatic.

I may end up leaving, sooner or later, if I know there is no chance of making it work, or if people don't seem to understand what I am (or what someone else is) saying, at all, but I don't blame others, in chat, or on here.

As, again, I know I chose to accept whatever I was given.

Anyone who has played games like this, for a while, should know all this, already.

It's the emotional intelligence equivalent of not standing in red...

VaranisArano

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

As the what most of the post on the forums say without saying.

YOU PUG WITH RANDOMS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN.

Outside of the above. You have little right to expect like minded players looking to seriously clear the Vet DLC Content in PUG groups. Nearly everyone who have posted on this thread says the same thing as I. They just are doing it in the political correct way.

Again IF YOU PUG WITH RANDOM PLAYERS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN. To complain or do anything else and expect to win. Is very nonsensical and foolhardy.

I dunno. I generally expect that players who queue up for dungeons want the same thing I do: to clear the dungeon.

So as long as I'm being reasonably polite about it, I expect them to take advice that's necessary to complete the dungeon, especially if there is a genuine DPS race or required mechanics that the group is obviously failing to manage properly, such that we're not going to complete the dungeon if we don't get our act together as a group. We might still fail, but at least we actually tried to improve.

I think "We all want to finish this dungeon, right?" is a pretty reasonable bare-minimum expectation for PUGs.

Tigerseye

VaranisArano wrote: »

I dunno. I generally expect that players who queue up for dungeons want the same thing I do: to clear the dungeon.

Expect nothing.

Far less disappointing.

Rungar

Pugging is the real hardmode.

skip no mechanics...

NO! even more mechanics. Sometimes infinite mechanics.

FearlessOne_2014

VaranisArano wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

As the what most of the post on the forums say without saying.

YOU PUG WITH RANDOMS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN.

Outside of the above. You have little right to expect like minded players looking to seriously clear the Vet DLC Content in PUG groups. Nearly everyone who have posted on this thread says the same thing as I. They just are doing it in the political correct way.

Again IF YOU PUG WITH RANDOM PLAYERS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN. To complain or do anything else and expect to win. Is very nonsensical and foolhardy.

I dunno. I generally expect that players who queue up for dungeons want the same thing I do: to clear the dungeon.

So as long as I'm being reasonably polite about it, I expect them to take advice that's necessary to complete the dungeon, especially if there is a genuine DPS race or required mechanics that the group is obviously failing to manage properly, such that we're not going to complete the dungeon if we don't get our act together as a group.

I think "We all want to finish this dungeon, right?" is a pretty reasonable bare-minimum expectation for PUGs.

They do want to clear the dungeon. But they also feel self entitled to be carried while offering nothing to the group. That and the 15 minute penalty, is the issue with wanting to win, with a PUG of random players. And if you give them slighest inclination to such attitude. They will give you grief and call you a elitist for it.

Those types of scum are not interested, in helping the group clear Vet DLC content in the slightest. And since ZOS and the ESO community support such attitudes. It's best from my own personal experiences to just either queue with guild or don't even try at all. Unless of course I can solo the content.

IF YOU PUG WITH RANDOM PLAYERS, YOU LOSE! IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO QUEUE WITH LIKE MINDED PLAYERS IN A GUILD!

rotaugen454

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

grkkll wrote: »

I mostly heal vet pledges, the only issue I can't abide is low dps. In the past week I've hit this in BC2 and DsC2 to such an extent that we couldn't finish the dungeon, final boss in BC and the "jellyfish" in DsC. I just leave, there's no way bad dps is going to get better in these scenarios

That had to be horrible DPS in DsC2, as I have siloed it. The toughest boss for me was one the early ones who had a stun and kept summoning adds. The final boss was easy compared to that.

I've never siloed dsc 2.

Yeah, stupid autocorrect turns soloed into siloed. Weird that an earlier boss is harder than the final. If two DPS can’t match one guy that has to self heal and tank, they need help with their setup. The way you approach it is critical though.

ZOS_RogerJ

Please remember, as we've removed some posts, that while it is okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community.

VaranisArano

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

As the what most of the post on the forums say without saying.

YOU PUG WITH RANDOMS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN.

Outside of the above. You have little right to expect like minded players looking to seriously clear the Vet DLC Content in PUG groups. Nearly everyone who have posted on this thread says the same thing as I. They just are doing it in the political correct way.

Again IF YOU PUG WITH RANDOM PLAYERS, YOU LOSE. IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO FIND GUILDS OF PLAYERS THAT ALSO WANTS TO WIN. To complain or do anything else and expect to win. Is very nonsensical and foolhardy.

I dunno. I generally expect that players who queue up for dungeons want the same thing I do: to clear the dungeon.

So as long as I'm being reasonably polite about it, I expect them to take advice that's necessary to complete the dungeon, especially if there is a genuine DPS race or required mechanics that the group is obviously failing to manage properly, such that we're not going to complete the dungeon if we don't get our act together as a group.

I think "We all want to finish this dungeon, right?" is a pretty reasonable bare-minimum expectation for PUGs.

They do want to clear the dungeon. But they also feel self entitled to be carried while offering nothing to the group. That and the 15 minute penalty, is the issue with wanting to win, with a PUG of random players. And if you give them slighest inclination to such attitude. They will give you grief and call you a elitist for it.

Those types of scum are not interested, in helping the group clear Vet DLC content in the slightest. And since ZOS and the ESO community support such attitudes. It's best from my own personal experiences to just either queue with guild or don't even try at all. Unless of course I can solo the content.

IF YOU PUG WITH RANDOM PLAYERS, YOU LOSE! IF YOU WANT TO WIN, YOU HAVE TO QUEUE WITH LIKE MINDED PLAYERS IN A GUILD!

Eh, I've been fortunate. Most players I get in PUGs want to clear the dungeon and thus are willing to take some polite advice and give it a better shot after we wipe the first time. When they aren't and we don't improve as a group, well, we can't complete the dungeon. So its not like they gained anything from being stubborn.

Personally, I like teaching, so I enjoy giving advice when needed. The runs where we all pull together to improve are great, even if we eventually give up. But just like students, we can't really force players to improve if they don't want to. They just won't get the rewards of improvement, like finishing the dungeon.

So if "winning" is realy important to you and you want a clear 100% of the time, then yeah, run with like-minded guildies.

For me, PUGing is more about "I'm going to group with random people who also want to complete a dungeon."

Dusk_Coven

Rungar wrote: »

the design is bad because it doesnt really engage players. Everyone who runs dungeons wants to get it over with as soon as possible to get the keys or helm.

theres no time to do the quests, barely enough time to talk to another player lest you get left in the dust.
if a player isnt working out more often they are kicked and replaced until someone does work out.

Those Korean clone games actually realize this! You can laugh at the joke MMO all you want but they understand their particular audience.

• That is why their quests run themselves linearly and will autocomplete like a bot -- they know people will want to make alts on different servers and want to skip the boring stuff they've seen 20 times.
• They know people get tired of combat and just want to know if their team setup will win, so they automate combat. Some even have literally 1-click combat -- you engage the enemy, and it calculates who won, who lost. You know, like the Might and Magic series of turn-based-strategy games.

So players can focus on what's important to them -- building their team, moving about strategically on the battlefield, etcetera, engaging the world boss over and over for loot each time. Because that's what the player really wants -- the reward. And it's a reward that only LOOKS big but is actually small due to the escalating costs of upgrading their team so all that grinding is still in check. They probably don't care if you bot because the game is basically botted 90%.

So in this regard they did it BETTER than ZOS. ZOS puts books in the middle of a dungeon that provides context for the story, puts long dialogs and scripted scenes. Yeah, great. But that belongs in SOLO STORY mode. Not a group dungeon. Even basic research and play time into a generation of MMOs would have told them it's just going to get ignored in a group dungeon.

Rungar

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

the design is bad because it doesnt really engage players. Everyone who runs dungeons wants to get it over with as soon as possible to get the keys or helm.

theres no time to do the quests, barely enough time to talk to another player lest you get left in the dust.
if a player isnt working out more often they are kicked and replaced until someone does work out.

Those Korean clone games actually realize this! You can laugh at the joke MMO all you want but they understand their particular audience.

• That is why their quests run themselves linearly and will autocomplete like a bot -- they know people will want to make alts on different servers and want to skip the boring stuff they've seen 20 times.
• They know people get tired of combat and just want to know if their team setup will win, so they automate combat. Some even have literally 1-click combat -- you engage the enemy, and it calculates who won, who lost. You know, like the Might and Magic series of turn-based-strategy games.

So players can focus on what's important to them -- building their team, moving about strategically on the battlefield, etcetera, engaging the world boss over and over for loot each time. Because that's what the player really wants -- the reward. And it's a reward that only LOOKS big but is actually small due to the escalating costs of upgrading their team so all that grinding is still in check. They probably don't care if you bot because the game is basically botted 90%.

So in this regard they did it BETTER than ZOS. ZOS puts books in the middle of a dungeon that provides context for the story, puts long dialogs and scripted scenes. Yeah, great. But that belongs in SOLO STORY mode. Not a group dungeon. Even basic research and play time into a generation of MMOs would have told them it's just going to get ignored in a group dungeon.

i was definitely not implying that the korean route be taken. There are other ways to resolve these problems without resorting to automation aka giving up.

Dusk_Coven

Rungar wrote: »

i was definitely not implying that the korean route be taken. There are other ways to resolve these problems without resorting to automation aka giving up.

No and it wouldn't work here because of how combat is set up. But I'm just saying knowing your audience is important. It's important when trying to design/sell anything, an MMO or otherwise. Not doing that results in a frustrating product that's "missing something" or doesn't match well how people use the product.
Those games are pure pay-to-win, which people traditionally despite. And they still make money hand over fist I bet. Otherwise why keep cloning them.

Ydrisselle

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

I'm CP632. I didn't finish any dungeon in ESO yet, except the public dungeons. I didn't even kill anything in any dungeon. I've had my fair share of those in other MMOs in the last 15 years.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

i was definitely not implying that the korean route be taken. There are other ways to resolve these problems without resorting to automation aka giving up.

No and it wouldn't work here because of how combat is set up. But I'm just saying knowing your audience is important. It's important when trying to design/sell anything, an MMO or otherwise. Not doing that results in a frustrating product that's "missing something" or doesn't match well how people use the product.
Those games are pure pay-to-win, which people traditionally despite. And they still make money hand over fist I bet. Otherwise why keep cloning them.

Pay2Win is despised by Western players, it's absolutely accepted in the East, just like mindless grinding.

azjuwelz

Tigerseye wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

I don't believe one second that you're all saints claiming you'd never get annoyed by getting a *** PUG.

Firstly, getting exasperated privately and expressing that exasperation publicly are two separate things.

Secondly, if I choose to join a PUG, I know I choose to accept whatever I get.

That isn't saint-like; it's just pragmatic.

I may end up leaving, sooner or later, if I know there is no chance of making it work, or if people don't seem to understand what I am (or what someone else is) saying, at all, but I don't blame others, in chat, or on here.

As, again, I know I chose to accept whatever I was given.

Anyone who has played games like this, for a while, should know all this, already.

It's the emotional intelligence equivalent of not standing in red...

I marked this as "awesome" and wanted to quote it as well. Because the game does not teach players how to successfully complete dungeons or other group content, you're going to find players who do everything the OP mentioned, or they may try to do things right but still not have enough dps or know enough mechanics to succeed.

Whether you find such players in the GF or zone or your guild doesn't matter. Accept that they exist. I agree that if you're trying nicely to help them (not rudely), and they don't want to listen, then you have the option or either kick or leave, but there's no point in getting mad about all of it. People are people, and some are smart, some are not, some have drive, others are lazy, etc. Take a chill pill, find some friends you trust not to stand in red, or maybe do something else for a bit and come back to it later.

I enjoy pugging (except vDLC) for the random element, but I've had frustrating runs where even after I've explained key mechanics, I've realized that the group just doesn't have the dps to complete it (this on my healer when she was low lvl). So I left, grabbed a guildie, then ran it again with no problem whatsoever. I didn't mind that I spent a lot of time not succeeding because it was my choice. Also my choice not to get upset about it.

Find the solution that works for you, because people are going to be people, and play how they want to play. You can't control them, and complaining solves nothing.

Raideen

daedalusAI wrote: »

I really don't know what do to or think about your kind:

Not sure what your intent is with this statement. Trust me, you THINK you know me, you have absolutely ZERO clue to who I am as a person.

daedalusAI wrote: »

[*] I stated facts how people behaved in the groups I played, and now you frame me to "incite hate and harassment towards casual players" by stating those facts? You lost all credibility and integrity you ever had in this thread by saying something like that - but I'm intrigued nevertheless: do you also frame your boss/coworker/relatives to "incite hate and harassment towards other people" if they tell their opinions based on facts?

You did not state facts. You stated YOUR PERCEPTION of facts. You are labeling these people without actually knowing why or how they are doing bad. You did not state facts, or truth...but simply your PERCEPTION. Are you capable of comprehending this? I think not.

daedalusAI wrote: »

[*] The game design is the issue, because the game actually forces people to stand in bad, locks their toolbars which prevents them to use food and prevents them from using any AoE, right? Or do you mean it as in "the game design is the issue because it's no mobile game with an auto-play function, so the player actually has to think to some degree"? You got to be kidding me. That's the most pathetic excuse I've heard in a long time

The game design is the issue because ITS FUNDAMENTALS are broken from the start. I am talking about the design of how combat works, you are talking semantics. Please try and keep up.

cmvet

So i've taken the approach that i expect to have to heal, tank, and dps at any given point in public dungeons. Thus i generally run my templar dps. I go into it expecting that to happen, therefore i'm not upset when it happens. Instead, i'm ecstatic when i don't have to. It is sooo much better on my mood and game experience.

Frostystuff

Funny, i wanted to make sure i could pull my own weight before i even entered a normal dungeon (combination of posts like this and an inferiority complex) so was about cp 450, went into vaults of madness solo just to get a taste (normal) and smashed through the whole thing. Could of been doing it much sooner.

Banana

I dont do them anymore. So

Raideen

Frostystuff wrote: »

Funny, i wanted to make sure i could pull my own weight before i even entered a normal dungeon (combination of posts like this and an inferiority complex) so was about cp 450, went into vaults of madness solo just to get a taste (normal) and smashed through the whole thing. Could of been doing it much sooner.

I was similar, I wanted to make sure I was pulling my own but some of the issues I have come across is that pulling your own vs the dungeon content is not good enough. Some of these people who rage at you expect you to pull 50% DPS based on THEIR gear set. You might be pulling enough, if not more than what is required, but because they think with small minds they assume if you are not at 50% you are not pulling your weight.

This is why I keep preaching that the dungeons should have been 5 man with 3 DPS to relieve some of the pressure on the lower geared DPS to help quell the elitist attitudes of some people. IT wont stop all of them, but it will filter many of them out and allow lower geared players to enjoy content without as much stress.

daedalusAI

Orjix wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

Orjix wrote: »

People want to play this game as a single player game because its an Elder Scrolls game, they don't (understandably) want people telling them how to play their Elder Scrolls game, and they want to be able to see/do everything in the game (again understandably, because it's an Elder Scrolls game). Some people are here for Elder Scrolls and are going to want to see and do everything like usual, multiplayer and group content be damned, its an Elder Scrolls game

That's nothing but an excuse.

You can play ESO how you like when you're running around solo, but going into group content with complete disregard of proper contribution to the group only gets you my contempt: if you really want to see everything there is, but don't want to invest time into learning/listening, you have 0 right to be there.

sorry but I'm just going to have to disagree, and the only thing I have to stand on is what I have already said. people "starved" for more Elder Scrolls content got the game, and are going to play it as such. IMO there is no reason to invest time in learning anything, people didn't have to learn rotations, not stand in red, and deal with armor sets in the other Elder Scrolls games, so they don't want to in this game. they just want to smack things in the head with a warhammer, and why shouldn't they? they paid for the game, are they not allowed to play how they see fit? The only reason they play group content is because the only way to see that content is in a group. No, I'm not one of the people I'm describing, but I have a few IRL friends who are, so i feel for them.

You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you want to bend reality in several ways:

• They paid for access to the game, but doesn't get them a free ride to be carried in group content
• They play ESO like any other Elder Scrolls game, as in doing it mostly solo + not having to really learn the game as they can get by really easily by using 1 or 2 spells - but now you want to allow such a person who "just wants to see everything" to be allowed in group content, even when they don't even have the most basic understanding of the game, with the obvious result of the group playing with 1 member less as he's for the most part just dead weight?

I'm unable to grasp the concept of "feeling for someone who wants to do group content but can't be bothered to even do basic research/training as to not be a complete dead weight for the group".

What do you to with those friends of yours: do you carry them through every group content there is just because "they want to see it"?

daedalusAI

Raideen wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

I really don't know what do to or think about your kind:

Not sure what your intent is with this statement. Trust me, you THINK you know me, you have absolutely ZERO clue to who I am as a person.

daedalusAI wrote: »

[*] I stated facts how people behaved in the groups I played, and now you frame me to "incite hate and harassment towards casual players" by stating those facts? You lost all credibility and integrity you ever had in this thread by saying something like that - but I'm intrigued nevertheless: do you also frame your boss/coworker/relatives to "incite hate and harassment towards other people" if they tell their opinions based on facts?

You did not state facts. You stated YOUR PERCEPTION of facts. You are labeling these people without actually knowing why or how they are doing bad. You did not state facts, or truth...but simply your PERCEPTION. Are you capable of comprehending this? I think not.

daedalusAI wrote: »

[*] The game design is the issue, because the game actually forces people to stand in bad, locks their toolbars which prevents them to use food and prevents them from using any AoE, right? Or do you mean it as in "the game design is the issue because it's no mobile game with an auto-play function, so the player actually has to think to some degree"? You got to be kidding me. That's the most pathetic excuse I've heard in a long time

The game design is the issue because ITS FUNDAMENTALS are broken from the start. I am talking about the design of how combat works, you are talking semantics. Please try and keep up.

You know someone's point of view in a discussion is so utterly weak he has to resort to twisting words and splitting hairs:

• If someone doesn't run out of telegraphed effects, runs around with 10k HP and doesn't use a single AoE then that's just my "perception of facts" and not facts? Is it also my "perception of facts" that my forum username is daedalusAI? Additionally I didn't comment on the fact why they do those things, I just stated that they do them
• It's fundamental broken, and yet you can't even put it into words, what exactly is broken? As far as I remember you learn to avoid red, block and light-/heavy-attack within your first minutes of the tutorial. How about actually putting the things you want to say in words, so I don't have to constantly ask?

daedalusAI

Frostystuff wrote: »

Funny, i wanted to make sure i could pull my own weight before i even entered a normal dungeon (combination of posts like this and an inferiority complex) so was about cp 450, went into vaults of madness solo just to get a taste (normal) and smashed through the whole thing. Could of been doing it much sooner.

Good job, but sadly you are in the minority of people who do research and training, because they want to improve and contribute to the group.

Glurin

Raideen wrote: »

This is why I keep preaching that the dungeons should have been 5 man with 3 DPS to relieve some of the pressure on the lower geared DPS to help quell the elitist attitudes of some people. IT wont stop all of them, but it will filter many of them out and allow lower geared players to enjoy content without as much stress.

Doesn't work. I've been in several MMOs with five man groups. They just start wanting 33%.

Actually, come to think of it, even if you are pretty close to even, they just nitpick how much less damage you're doing than they are. Some of the fights I've witnessed over minuscule differences where truly epic.

There really isn't anything that can be done about it short of disabling all damage meters entirely. Not that that would actually work either, mind you. They start making wild assumptions based on what skills and weapons you're using. In the past I've had people chew me out for using off meta builds in other MMOs until someone else in the group posts a damage parse. I always got a kick out of it when that completely shuts them up for the rest of the dungeon.

Most of the time it's best to simply ignore them. Most people know those guys are full of crap and that it's their own fault for joining a PUG to begin with if they can't stand getting weaker group members.