Bad/clueless/unwilling to learn people in dungeons

Dusk_Coven

FakeFox wrote: »

Hamish999 wrote: »

Not saying they shouldn't know to move out of stupid. But being red/green colour blind I really struggled to see AOEs when I first started playing, until I changed the colour to bright luminous pink 😁
I still can't see the "sparkles" that apparently telegraph interrupts though 😞

If you are on PC you can get addons that gives you center screen messages for that stuff.

I think there are also basic cues you can turn on WITHOUT addons? Gameplay > Combat > Combat Cues > ON
I believe that gives you white text on screen that tells you how to get out of CC (what key press)

SidraWillowsky

rotaugen454 wrote: »

If I have a group of newer/unknowing people that are willing to learn, I actually have more fun with them than three other maxed out/experienced players. There is a sense of accomplishment, with people cheering the victory. When it’s 4 of me, we sprint through the dungeon, finish, and immediately disband, with maybe a “gg” said.

ITA, it's actually really fun when you have a group that may wipe a few times but gets back up and cheerfully tries again. You learn how to work together as a group. Then when you finally get it, you celebrate. I've made quite a few friends that way, actually.

FearlessOne_2014

J2JMC wrote: »

@daedalusAI
@SipofMaim
@Jhalin
@Naftal
@InvictusApollo
@Raisin
@FearlessOne_2014
@RebornV3x
@magictucktuck

Since all of you hate PUGS why don't you just form a guild so you never have to worry about PUGS again? Shoot, ya'll could make a trial team at this point.

You obviously haven't read my posts here. Because if you did. You would've known by now. I simply don't PUG with randos, that which I can't solo. I either run it with guildies or not at all. So please don't lump me in with the rest of them. I feeling agree that if you queue with Randos you assume the headache of doing so. That's why I don't complain about such like the others.

RebornV3x

J2JMC wrote: »

@daedalusAI
@SipofMaim
@Jhalin
@Naftal
@InvictusApollo
@Raisin
@FearlessOne_2014
@RebornV3x
@magictucktuck

Since all of you hate PUGS why don't you just form a guild so you never have to worry about PUGS again? Shoot, ya'll could make a trial team at this point.

@J2JMC

I don't pug very much true but where in my post did I say I hate pugs in my post I offered a possible solution to the problem this game hides so much from the player especially on console the base game UI is horrible without Youtube or PC mods 95% of the people playing this game would be completely lost so I understand why the average person is bad at this game and I don't blame them...

Other than the bare basic controls and a in-depth but still lacking help menu that most people don't actually know about. The fact overland questing and content(excluding world bosses) is brain dead easy this game has 2 modes either super easy or super hard and quests in no way prepare a player for group content like dungeons and trials and the game just doesn't tell you about weaving or how to tank or what to do as a healer. granted I don't like my hand held and carried but to expect people to do X when the game makes no mention of anything or gives you no option to improve its wrong.

I was playing Tera last month and the game mentions combos you can do and what skills synergize with each other and so it makes having a dps rotation feel more natural etc...

I used to run a guild when this game came out and try and help people and sadly due to stupid people and infighting I had to close it down.

Sergykid

players are left alone to be pathetically weak since the beginning of the game. Starter zones should remain as they are, but the next zones should give mobs and/or world bosses tougher mechanics. Quests bosses should have mechanics that require strategy, like becoming immune to damage until some totems are destroyed, or whatever u get the point.

today in dungeons u see people without food and that refuse to use it even after i offer to give. Sometimes they don't have mundus stones. Light attack spammers. Execute spammers even on full hp boss. Not reading the chat when told mechanics or asking for loot. Not able to follow the party (not in rush scenarios). Running with a mob that he aggroed back to the beginning of the dungeon instead of bringing it back at the tank. More but can't think of them now.

the above cases have decreased, which is a good thing. I do up to 4 random pug dungeon runs almost daily, and the above cases were more frequent, now even tho it still happens it's 50% of the cases instead of 80% like before.

Agenericname

rotaugen454 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I dunno. Seems to me there's some basic advice that's always appropriate in PUG dungeons, normal and vet.

1. "Did your food buff run out?"
2. "Does everyone know how to do X mechanic?" (Particularly after a wipe or you've watched someone fail the mechanic.)

There's nothing elitist about politely offering good advice when its demonstrably needed.

I always ask at the start “Does everyone know the mechanics? It’s ok if you don’t. I’ve run this many times and can give some quick tips at the start of each area if you would like”. I’ve never had anyone get snotty with me when phrased like that.

Its pretty common in the vet DLCs. Most people are fairly forth coming if they don't know them.

Jhalin

J2JMC wrote: »

@ /daedalusAI
@ /SipofMaim
@ /Jhalin
@ /Naftal
@ /InvictusApollo
@ /Raisin
@ /FearlessOne_2014
@ /RebornV3x
@ /magictucktuck

Since all of you hate PUGS why don't you just form a guild so you never have to worry about PUGS again? Shoot, ya'll could make a trial team at this point.

Ah, so you’re the source of the spam pings

If you’d bothered to read, you’d know I do try to teach people. I’ve explained mechanics countless times, showed pugs where priority adds will spawn, told them that AoE would work better in these fights, and let them know that spamming Snipe isn’t sufficient for killing a boss monster on vet so they should use some of their DoTs and light attack before each cast.

Unfortunately the response is often silence (usually followed by no change at all), or some salty “stfu” or “don’t tell me how to play” as if I called them a brainlet and offered no advice at all

Rungar

someone should also shine a light on the pug replacement carousel. you know the one where you cant advance so the offending element(s) are eliminated and new players cycled in until there is victory.

awesome gameplay.

maddiniiLuna

Dude don't start topics like this. The community with flame the crap out of you, because they are all sooo superior and never have any problems.

Drako_Ei

I was doing my DLC vet pledge and asked the healer if they could do some synergies, for my lokkestiz, and the response was: "Dont tell me what to do". So i just left and took 80% of their group damage with me.

Aznarb

That a part of why I play less and less these day.
My play time changed and I'm now rarely with my friends.
And I agree with OP, most of this game population are just incredibly bad and expecting other to carry their a**.

And since overland is a joke and pvp lame af, their is not so much thing to do when you're forced to play alone.

And don't get me wrong, I'm ok to help people to improve and give them some tips and explaining strat.
But the vast majority don't read/listen/care and you end-up kicking them or leave.
Waste of time for everyone.

FierceSam

daedalusAI wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

“Elitist w***er blames others for own failings” shocker

You’re bothered by the way others play?

1. Don’t play with others, or

2. Set up guild with express purpose of helping others improve

3. Stop whining about it to others, you sound like a sad spoilt child

People like you are exactly why others give up on teaching newbies. You, clearly, have no desire to learn how to be a team player.

That’s fine, until you start trying to force other players to put it up with you while you cry “elitist” the moment someone tells you how to get better at the game

Hey dude,

There are many different ways to encourage others to learn. Personally, I don’t think any of them begin by having the attitude that the OP does. You can’t be starting with an attitude simply because someone doesn’t know something or isn’t as experienced as you are... I mean imagine how that would work in kindergarten, where almost none of the children know anything.

Belittlement, superiority and abuse are rarely effective teaching tools

It may seem a little petty, but you don’t tell people to get better, you help them.

I quite clearly said, “tell them how to get better”. That IS helping them.

Imagine thinking it’s “superiority” that makes someone think standing in red is stupid

Hmm you still haven’t appreciated the distinction between telling someone (which implies speaking condescendingly from a position of superiority) and helping them (implies a sympathetic attitude and speaking to them like an equal). I know which one I best respond to.

We’ve all, hopefully, experienced that special teacher who inspired us while teaching us. Just as we’ve probably, sadly, all had that teacher who patronises us, treats us like idiots and expects us to learn from them. Again I know which teacher I respond best to.

Let’s all try to be the first teacher when we’re helping others.

And to reiterate, if you don’t like the people you are playing with, don’t join PUG groups. Make your own groups and have your fun that way. Can’t find 3 friends?? Think what that might say about you..

If I tell you that you run around with no food in a vet dungeon that's "condescending from a position of superiority", and not simply stating a fact that you overlooked to do?

Rather condescending how you try to label me a certain way.

I’m saying it depends on what you say and how you say it.

You might say, “hey dude it looks like your health is a bit low, have you run out of food” (cos, yes that has happened), which sounds like you might be friendly and trying to help me

Or you might say “Eat some food noob your health’s low”, which doesn’t and will probably not get a positive reaction.

To me the first is an example of helping, the second is an example of telling...

The information being conveyed is the same, but the attitude and the probable reaction are very different.

Mix

kylewwefan wrote: »

I’d also encourage you to put siege shield on your bar. So you can show them you can be bad too.

Oh the days when I forgot that on my bar after running vSO lol! (used it to burn magicka pool fast and not explodey)

buttaface

Didn't read whole thread. Not at all surprised at all the snowflakery and white knighting in it though. "Everyone deserves a medal!!" Right? "I can do whatever whenever I want and no one is better at anything than me!" Right?

First let's dispense with the utterly moronic non-argument "hurr durr don't pug!" "hurr durr get a guild!"

What kind of fool believes that merely being in a guild guarantees some instant group of people at one's level who want to do what one wants to do when one wants to do it? What kind of fool believes a long friends list does similar, or even having people in your same household playing the game guarantees someone to do something when you have the game time to do it? What kind of fool thinks that "well just get a guild then!" or "don't pug!" are anything other than off topic red herrings in a topic like this? Because that's exactly what they are, not topical... pure fallacies, that get posted over and over in these and other threads.

So, to the ACTUAL TOPIC, why are players SO BAD in ESO? Here are a few reasons.

1. WAY too many unregulated experience caves. BETTER games cut that *** down for obvious reasons, it burns out newer players and costs the game money to hand out progression via carry like that, not to mention creates a player base like ESO's that is cram full of BADS. Yet there are rampant EXP caves all over ESO, dolmens, pub dungeons, mob camps running around the clock. How to fix without removing the content from the game entirely? EXP caps kick in from repetitive activities on a timer. Players could still exp cave, but they would have to put some effort into going around doing different things. Somewhere in this, they might actually learn how to PLAY THE GAME instead of being perma carried. There are lots of ways to skin the exp cave cat without stifling play, worth a whole thread of its own, but it is the prime mover behind the general poor player base of ESO compared to other games.

2. Too much early aimbot crutching, i.e. PETS. There's a reason why a vast majority of the truly bad players in the hundreds of dungeons I have pug tanked are pet sorcs. How to fix? No aimbot skill should be other than an Ultimate that requires the skill line hit fifty before leveling, and it should be a harsher leveling curve. Then players couldn't just let aimbots play the early game for them while light attacking without ever learning the skills.

3. Too much soloable content. Even WOW, the droolcup of MMOs did a better job of this. You can do this and this and this quest, but for THIS keystone quest, you have to have a team and you have to have some basic sense of how to play your character. How to fix? Buff up a bunch of quest line minibosses. Most of the better games I've played over the years let you get only a little into the game without learning BASIC decent team tactics and play. Not so ESO, and that's why the player base is generally bad.

Enough for one post, but that's a TOPICAL answer to the thread with some constructive ways to fix it.

J2JMC

@SipofMaim You came into the thread complaining about dolmen farmers and people not knowing about food buffs. You then mentioned you would not be doing any PUGS at the moment. Most people would assume that you currently have a dislike for PUGS. There would be no reason to stop doing them if you liked them. But you're right. You did not say you literally hated pugs. So I'll give you that I guess.

@daedalusAI Don't see how you could possibly miss the point lol. Group with other skilled players, like the ones I mentioned, and you don't have to worry about PUG issues.

@Raisin You have one sentence, specifically about trials, saying they can be rewarding while Pugged if they are completed. The rest of your comments were defending OP, and saying people don't listen despite how nice you are to them. Someone even refers to your self-described PUG experience as a horror story lmao. Given that, I'd say there isn't much in this thread that suggests you've had multiple positive PUG experiences. Feel free to quote something I may have misinterpreted!

@Jhalin Good thing I never said said you don't try to teach people in pug groups. I suggested grouping with other players so you wouldn't have to deal with PUGS.

I don't see why ya'll came into a thread complaining about PUGS, and then act surprised people think you don't like PUGS.

p00tx

Pugging dungeons is like buying crown crates. We keep hoping for something good, and every once in a GREAT while, we might get a sweet mount, but it's usually just garbage or the rare somewhat useful or interesting item. The interesting part is, if you choose to buy crown crates, you have no one to blame but yourself if you become upset by not getting what you hoped for because you knew the risks you were taking. The same applies to pugs.

I know it's frustrating (we all feel it), but we all have to share this game, and if you want to play with people of your own skill/experience level, you need to make those groups yourself, because group finder is just another form of hapless gambling.

rotaugen454

I’ve done the dungeons so many times that pugs at least add an element of unpredictability to it, much like live performers who interact with the audience.

Raisin

J2JMC wrote: »

@SipofMaim You came into the thread complaining about dolmen farmers and people not knowing about food buffs. You then mentioned you would not be doing any PUGS at the moment. Most people would assume that you currently have a dislike for PUGS. There would be no reason to stop doing them if you liked them. But you're right. You did not say you literally hated pugs. So I'll give you that I guess.

@daedalusAI Don't see how you could possibly miss the point lol. Group with other skilled players, like the ones I mentioned, and you don't have to worry about PUG issues.

@Raisin You have one sentence, specifically about trials, saying they can be rewarding while Pugged if they are completed. The rest of your comments were defending OP, and saying people don't listen despite how nice you are to them. Someone even refers to your self-described PUG experience as a horror story lmao. Given that, I'd say there isn't much in this thread that suggests you've had multiple positive PUG experiences. Feel free to quote something I may have misinterpreted!

@Jhalin Good thing I never said said you don't try to teach people in pug groups. I suggested grouping with other players so you wouldn't have to deal with PUGS.

I don't see why ya'll came into a thread complaining about PUGS, and then act surprised people think you don't like PUGS.

I'm just going to bold that part and clue you in on the answer: because you are being deliberately and ridiculously obtuse and you know it. You came in here mentioning a bunch of people with a purposefully baiting post where you completely misconstrued the truth and put strawman accusations into people's mouth in order to get them to defend themselves. You looked at people having a discussion about different experiences and real complex opinions that aren't 'wah wah pugs suck I hate the whole playerbsse or 'evetybofy is great I've never had a bad pug experience ever' and went 'I'm going to aggressively accuse these people of having an exaggerated, unrealistic opinion, then give them passive aggressive snark about being the archtype I've projected onto them, and see if I can get a rise.
Your strategy is to latch onto a single word, ignore any rational discussion, and hope the poor fella you chose gets stuck in an unwinnable loop of trying to defend themselves from far-fetched accusations, because it's the only way you feel you can win an argument. It's ridiculousl, and verybody who's been in an argument on the internet before knows this kind of ***.
In short, you're either a massive troll or a massive idiot. And I'm going to call you both and tell you to feck off. And in the event that none of this is intentional and you really aren't trying to be the *** you're being... Go on a journey to find yourself and become a better you or something.

But because I am a weak human being, here's me disputing your obvious BS:
I defended OP because people weren't being fair to OP. Complex, I know.
The fact that I do a lot of PUG content and love it exists in obvious context in the conversation I had on the topic -- remember before that I was talking about the behavior in this thread, not the PUG topic. Also I never said anything about not enjoying PUGs, which generally means that telling me 'you don't like PUGs' is a guess at best. Your definition of 'literally complained about PUGs' might be a bit off by being... Y'know literally just wrong.
I explained that my experience with people listening was different from the person who said it goes well for them almost all the time. Someone else shared my experience. I had a chat with people about it. Literally just... Talking about or different experiences. Don't know what point you're trying to make on that.
Someone else calling my PUG experiences a horror story literally says nothing about me, just about them. Again, no clue what you were even trying to express bringing that up.

And again, my condolences for whatever is wrong with you.

JumpmanLane

pdblake wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Maybe, like me, they've taken time to enjoy the rest of the game playing solo, only doing the dungeon and group stuff when they get around to it.

I'm CP450+ (forget how much exactly), and have only done few dungeons ages ago. My current main hasn't been inside a group dungeon at all, but can solo every public dungeon he's come across. I'm only now toying with the idea of pugging a dungeon. Still not been to Cyrodill.

There’s plenty of content in the game. Take it at your own pace.

geonsocal

daedalusAI wrote: »

It's just infuriating how bad/clueless the large majority of players are, and then they just refuse to listen to anything you're telling them:

xxthir13enxx

All I got to say is....

Leeeeeroy Jeeeenkins!!!!!!

https://youtu.be/mLyOj_QD4a4

rotaugen454

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

All I got to say is....

Leeeeeroy Jeeeenkins!!!!!!

https://youtu.be/mLyOj_QD4a4

https://youtu.be/vu0W5SdNuis

FrancisCrawford

daedalusAI wrote: »

It's just infuriating how bad/clueless the large majority of players are, and then they just refuse to listen to anything you're telling them:

• CP 320 DK with bow/DW, but his only AoE is spamming Noxious Breath
• Level 45 sorc whose sole goal in life is to spam Crystal Shards until the end of time, no matter what you're telling him
• CP 450 who thinks food is for the weak and runs around with 10k HP; but there seems to be a general aversion to using food in dungeons, or at all for that matter
• CP from 1 to 810 who just refuse to move out of big red telegraphed effects and die as a result, but then get irritated if you point them towards that fact

I'm far from a really good player, but some things like moving out of big red telegraphed effects, slotting at least 1 AoE and listening to feedback from players who just might know more than you are things I have to expect.

On what platform? Which group of dungeons? This is not my experience on PC/NA, and I've pugged everything through the middle-difficulty DLC dungeons in normal mode and through the easier "2" dungeons plus the IC ones on vet. Yes, there's the occasional useless player and the occasional selfish and/or elitist jerk, but most people are in the range between weak but not horrible to excellent players and the range between silent to very friendly (silent being more common) on the personal side.

FrancisCrawford

Lauranae wrote: »

if you enter an instance with pug, take the time to ask if they know the instance. If not try to explain at each boss.

Note: There are multiple ways to do that diplomatically, including:

Fake question: When the flame atronachs are up we should focus them, because she's shielded -- correct?

Real strategy question: Which mob do you want to focus in the pindown phase -- the one on the furthest right?

Statement of intent: I'll position in the doorway so that our AoE circles don't overlap.

Tip phrased to imply they probably know it already: Reminder: If she stuns you break free immediately, because otherwise she heals.

FrancisCrawford

FakeFox wrote: »

Hamish999 wrote: »

Not saying they shouldn't know to move out of stupid. But being red/green colour blind I really struggled to see AOEs when I first started playing, until I changed the colour to bright luminous pink 😁
I still can't see the "sparkles" that apparently telegraph interrupts though 😞

If you are on PC you can get addons that gives you center screen messages for that stuff.

Which add-on(s) would you recommend for that? I could certainly use one, for interrupts or more generally if I am to learn to tank.

Does LUI Extended have settings for that? I already use it for other things.

VaranisArano

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Lauranae wrote: »

if you enter an instance with pug, take the time to ask if they know the instance. If not try to explain at each boss.

Note: There are multiple ways to do that diplomatically, including:

Fake question: When the flame atronachs are up we should focus them, because she's shielded -- correct?

Real strategy question: Which mob do you want to focus in the pindown phase -- the one on the furthest right?

Statement of intent: I'll position in the doorway so that our AoE circles don't overlap.

Tip phrased to imply they probably know it already: Reminder: If she stuns you break free immediately, because otherwise she heals.

These are perfect!

Agenericname

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

Hamish999 wrote: »

Not saying they shouldn't know to move out of stupid. But being red/green colour blind I really struggled to see AOEs when I first started playing, until I changed the colour to bright luminous pink 😁
I still can't see the "sparkles" that apparently telegraph interrupts though 😞

If you are on PC you can get addons that gives you center screen messages for that stuff.

Which add-on(s) would you recommend for that? I could certainly use one, for interrupts or more generally if I am to learn to tank.

Does LUI Extended have settings for that? I already use it for other things.

Check this one out:
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1855-CodesCombatAlerts.html

Vhozek

I honestly don't get it because I don't consider myself very smart or even hardcore but I had my own rotation and great understanding of attack canceling on day ONE with this being my first MMO. I was scared of trolls, giants, mammoths, and so on on the first 2 tries but immediately learned to just run around them while attacking and the entire game difficulty went straight to the floor.
I have almost 2k hours into the game and only 380CP with 0 level 50 characters since I delete them all once they hit 50. I don't grind for gear, I don't craft, I don't fish, I just run dungeons over and over again and do the same 100 quests I've done for 2k hours.
Are the bad people really NOT new to the game? How is that possible? You're only new to this game for like one week.

Lauranae

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

All I got to say is....

Leeeeeroy Jeeeenkins!!!!!!

https://youtu.be/mLyOj_QD4a4

oh my god!!! i could not stop laughing!!! such good memories lmao


we were playing same server and after that nothing was same lmao

Thank you for giving me such fun by reminding me this!!!

Tiff_ar15

Never know what you're going to get with a pug but yesterday, I completed all the newer dlc's with random groups and every one was great. If a player seems inexperienced, try to help. We all have to start some where. Maybe they don't know which food to use, maybe they don't have any, maybe their gear sucks, etc. Ultimately if none of that works.. ask to be kicked. I actually prefer using dungeon finder because it can be challening and is a change.