Bad/clueless/unwilling to learn people in dungeons

Cirantille

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Or maybe they decide they want to explore the world and quest first?

But the dungeons ARE in the game world. It's like ZOS put them there so you can walk in (you know, maybe because some Undaunted dude in a tavern challenged you to go inside) but whoa! You can't solo it at level 10 or whatever while you're wandering around the game world.
Seems like the design is a bit weird.

In FFXIV and SWL if you try to walk into a dungeon, you get the Group Finder.

Im CP 271, still didn't do any undaunted.
I can join because everyday my guild invites people but I am just not interested in the skill line or the monster sets.
The only dungeon I did was WGT and a trial.
I just did zone quests and Cyrodiil PvP so far heheh

Philtho

Raisin wrote: »

Absolutely no beef with what you're saying but... 'almost 50' makes it sound like you've only been playing for a week? Ignore me if I read that wrong, but if you really are such a low level, please understand that you can't be a good judge for the balancing of PVE difficulty. You have not yet touched the insane power creep. Especially solo content becomes so painfully easy, bland and unchallenging that it sucks the joy out of it, for me. And while you can challenge yourself by soloing some vDLC and the like, I do feel like you can always tell the content you're doing was designed for groups.

I've been playing almost every day for a month now. I've got 5 days /played. In MMO terms, it's not much, but it's been all single player, and in single player terms, that is a LOT of hours of single player content. I can only speak to the experience I've had with over 120 hours of play and I wouldn't change a thing. If ESO is not balancing this content at all, then ignore my suggestions.

Raisin

Philtho wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Absolutely no beef with what you're saying but... 'almost 50' makes it sound like you've only been playing for a week? Ignore me if I read that wrong, but if you really are such a low level, please understand that you can't be a good judge for the balancing of PVE difficulty. You have not yet touched the insane power creep. Especially solo content becomes so painfully easy, bland and unchallenging that it sucks the joy out of it, for me. And while you can challenge yourself by soloing some vDLC and the like, I do feel like you can always tell the content you're doing was designed for groups.

I've been playing almost every day for a month now. I've got 5 days /played. In MMO terms, it's not much, but it's been all single player, and in single player terms, that is a LOT of hours of single player content. I can only speak to the experience I've had with over 120 hours of play and I wouldn't change a thing. If ESO is not balancing this content at all, then ignore my suggestions.

Yeah I sorta realized in hindsight that a week isn't realistic for someone who just started, especially since questing and such has such low exp gain.
I don't want to make it sound like you're not experienced because obviously you've played a lot time-wise, it's really just about the fact that you're at such a low level that even with ESO's supposed level scaling, you haven't really experienced what the difficulty of content is like for most players. I actually played the game the same way you did for a year or two, and made it to about 400 with that, so it was a nice slow ride. I do think you need to be at least 300 (to get the big stat boost) and have a solid understanding of the gameplay to really understand your power relation to the in-game world.
That said, once you start playing the game differently you can't really go back, so I wouldn't worry about that kind of stuff too much and enjoy what you have. You only get to enjoy things for the first time once.

Inaya

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

I did exactly 2 dungeons while leveling and have only done the public dungeons solo now ( @ 468 CP). Why? Because I explored the world, did all the quests, fished and relaxed and had fun. No desire to pug and run into a bunch of "WTF you never been in here before- Git gud?"

Raideen

daedalusAI wrote: »

It's just infuriating how bad/clueless the large majority of players are, and then they just refuse to listen to anything you're telling them:

• CP 320 DK with bow/DW, but his only AoE is spamming Noxious Breath
• Level 45 sorc whose sole goal in life is to spam Crystal Shards until the end of time, no matter what you're telling him
• CP 450 who thinks food is for the weak and runs around with 10k HP; but there seems to be a general aversion to using food in dungeons, or at all for that matter
• CP from 1 to 810 who just refuse to move out of big red telegraphed effects and die as a result, but then get irritated if you point them towards that fact

I'm far from a really good player, but some things like moving out of big red telegraphed effects, slotting at least 1 AoE and listening to feedback from players who just might know more than you are things I have to expect.

Your post only serves to incite hate and harassment towards casual players and they are not the issue, the game design is.

1. The way ESO classes and abilities are created allows for almost incalculable builds and most of them are going to be bad. Not everyone follows the meta FOTM build, some people play because they like abilities that are fun but that do not necessarily contribute to solid DPS. There is no tutorial in game on how to build an effective dungeon class.
2. The 4 man party design for dungeons is also a huge fail. It means that everyone in the party has to pull their equal weight, which in and of itself is not bad, but when you combine it with the class ability design system it's set up as a huge fail. The 4 man party would be better served in WOW where classes are actually classes and people use a relatively specific rotations for each class. There ARE NO specific rotations in ESO unless you copy a build from a streamer/you tuber. This game should have been made with a 5 man group with 3 DPS to allow for a greater variety of players to enter the dungeon that would allow for some misgivings on builds.
3. I play with someone who lives across the world, but they are on the NA servers. I am in skype with them every time we play together and I CONSTANTLY see them standing in red circles. That is WHAT I SEE. On their end, they are moving out of them ASAP. You are pointing fingers at the player when AGAIN, its ZOS fault for bad net code, and no ones fault for general latency which is simply a fact everyone has to deal with.

Get one of your friends, get in a chat program, foot race or mount race them from a point you designate to a destination you designate ( a short race). Ask each other who is in the lead and who is in second place. I bet you 99x out of 100 you think you are ahead of them, and they think they are ahead of you.

What you see happening in game and what another person sees happening in game ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS to red circles are two different things. I have been in red circles, CLEARLY dodged out of it while the circle was still forming/growing and still been one shot. I am in Dallas, the NA server is in Dallas. I run fiber 100 up down with an SSD and a 9900k and RTX 2080 and even a better connection and hardware than 95% of the population in ESO I still get die from seemingly nothing. No red, no mob on me, I just die. It happens DAILY. The combat in ESO is simply badly designed.


So bottom line is, while I COMPLETELY agree that it sucks to be in a run when you are pulling 80% of the DPS because you are partied with someone who has a bad build, or who is simply new, don't blame the player. Blame the game. I see many 810 players who do not even touch dungeons (traders who play more for housing). Just because someone has a high cp does not mean they know how combat works and as I stated, due to the way builds work in this game and due to the fact there is little hand holding, you simply need to adapt because the issue is not the folks you are running with, and ZOS is never going to fix combat in this game (its broken by its literal design). Your only option is to take charge and run with friends/guildies and not pug.

El_Borracho

@Raideen all good points, but the OP's examples are indefensible. I got the impression he was talking about players who play this way and refuse to take advice or help from others. I have no sympathy for them.

We have all been beginners or bad at some point in this game. The difference between these examples and the majority of other players is that we took the time to learn how to play, accepted advice and/or criticism from others, and got better.

There are some out there who believe that spamming an execute to start a boss fight is better than doing a rotation. Those people are wrong. The difference is how that player reacts when you point it out to them. If they get upset and still do it, then they are the problem, not the player pointing it out

rotaugen454

I’ve got over 4,000 hours played, have done vet group dungeons in guild, pug, and solo, yet I still learn things to make them easier. There is a steep learning curve for beginners, but I try to point them towards informative websites if they really want to learn, or I give them bullet point tips if they don’t. Most people play for relaxation and don’t want it becoming a “job” but are willing to learn the easy stuff to get better.

idk

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Raideen all good points, but the OP's examples are indefensible. I got the impression he was talking about players who play this way and refuse to take advice or help from others. I have no sympathy for them.

I somewhat question the situation entirely.

My reasoning is when I used to queue solo as a tank to help the GF I never came to the forums and created a thread to complain about the group I got because I chose to queue solo for a random group.

So what is the motive or the reason? It is not to educate those who were in the group with them as they are unlikely to read this thread. It is not to educate us on the folly of queueing up solo in the GF as most of us pretty much have a clue about what we can expect then.

My guess is it is aggravation and as such maybe we are getting the story through rose colored glasses. I take a thread like this with a grain of salt as I really do not expect OP is the hero some seem to think they were. This thread probably came from nothing but aggravation/blowing off steam and maybe hope for validation.

I could be wrong. That much I know is a possibility.

Davor

eso_lags wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

It's just infuriating how bad/clueless the large majority of players are, and then they just refuse to listen to anything you're telling them:

• CP 320 DK with bow/DW, but his only AoE is spamming Noxious Breath
• Level 45 sorc whose sole goal in life is to spam Crystal Shards until the end of time, no matter what you're telling him
• CP 450 who thinks food is for the weak and runs around with 10k HP; but there seems to be a general aversion to using food in dungeons, or at all for that matter
• CP from 1 to 810 who just refuse to move out of big red telegraphed effects and die as a result, but then get irritated if you point them towards that fact

I'm far from a really good player, but some things like moving out of big red telegraphed effects, slotting at least 1 AoE and listening to feedback from players who just might know more than you are things I have to expect.

What makes you such a good player? After all I am sure people should tell you what to do when you play. Also, why does everyone have to be a cyber jock? You do know people play for fun and don't go by the numbers? While video games was mainly for nerds back in the day, those days are gone and lots of people love playing video games for fun. Shocking, fun means not the best and enjoying something.

If you are a cyber sports jock, why don't you and a few others join together and start up your own sport league. After all, it seems you guys know it all and are so good, you should be making millions, if not billions.

uhhh what?

What makes this person so good that he can tell others they are not doing the "job" perfectly?

mustangmorgan31

There are so many bad players in ESO because they hurry up and grind to level 50 and then they grind to CP 810 by running in a pack of people completing dolmens and they don't actually learn how to play the game. They think if they get to CP 810 they will suddenly have 60K + dps.

Raideen

El_Borracho wrote: »

@Raideen all good points, but the OP's examples are indefensible. I got the impression he was talking about players who play this way and refuse to take advice or help from others. I have no sympathy for them.

Except that he can not possibly know how or why these people play unless he polls them each and ever time. Based on his hatred towards casuals, I am going to go out on a limb and say he does not poll these people and has no clue as to how or why they play.

Occam's razor suggests he wants easy, fast runs and gets frustrated when he does not get that.

El_Borracho wrote: »

We have all been beginners or bad at some point in this game. The difference between these examples and the majority of other players is that we took the time to learn how to play, accepted advice and/or criticism from others, and got better.

Except that we don't know why these people are bad, or why they don't care. But my point is that to label an entire group of people as he is doing "filthy casuals" does not lend itself to building or maintaining a strong community. Most people are casuals, they have lives outside of the game and come here for entertainment, not to be berated by some animation cancelling elitst who cant pull his head out of hi...….

El_Borracho wrote: »

There are some out there who believe that spamming an execute to start a boss fight is better than doing a rotation. Those people are wrong. The difference is how that player reacts when you point it out to them. If they get upset and still do it, then they are the problem, not the player pointing it out

It also depends on how the "teacher" presents the solution, how they interact with the newer player.
A. "I can help you extract more damage from your character if you don't mind me showing you some pointers"
B. "DUDE WTF! I AM DOING 80% of the DAMGE, PULL YOUR HEAD OUT AND FING PULL YOUR WEIGHT".

See my point? If you come at me with B, I am going to tell you to get bent. The issue is, this dude has already shown frustration, I mean its embedded into his entire post. His post was not coming here to help, but to whine about casuals.

Glurin

Davor wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

daedalusAI wrote: »

It's just infuriating how bad/clueless the large majority of players are, and then they just refuse to listen to anything you're telling them:

• CP 320 DK with bow/DW, but his only AoE is spamming Noxious Breath
• Level 45 sorc whose sole goal in life is to spam Crystal Shards until the end of time, no matter what you're telling him
• CP 450 who thinks food is for the weak and runs around with 10k HP; but there seems to be a general aversion to using food in dungeons, or at all for that matter
• CP from 1 to 810 who just refuse to move out of big red telegraphed effects and die as a result, but then get irritated if you point them towards that fact

I'm far from a really good player, but some things like moving out of big red telegraphed effects, slotting at least 1 AoE and listening to feedback from players who just might know more than you are things I have to expect.

What makes you such a good player? After all I am sure people should tell you what to do when you play. Also, why does everyone have to be a cyber jock? You do know people play for fun and don't go by the numbers? While video games was mainly for nerds back in the day, those days are gone and lots of people love playing video games for fun. Shocking, fun means not the best and enjoying something.

If you are a cyber sports jock, why don't you and a few others join together and start up your own sport league. After all, it seems you guys know it all and are so good, you should be making millions, if not billions.

uhhh what?

What makes this person so good that he can tell others they are not doing the "job" perfectly?

The fact that he's not buck naked and spamming bow light attacks with no food buff?

I mean, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to tell the guy sitting in a lawn chair duct taped to a propane tank that he can't get to the moon that way.

FierceSam

Shievarei wrote: »

I wonder if the people who act smart and tell others to not use the Group Finder know that they are basically supporting OP's point.

It's difficult.

Hey Shievarei

If encouraging OP not to use the group finder saves even 3 players from being grouped with them I will consider that a total victory..

And you are right, helping people can be difficult. It’s not always successful. But when it’s done right and it does work, it can be incredibly rewarding.

MehrunesFlagon

Cirantille wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Or maybe they decide they want to explore the world and quest first?

But the dungeons ARE in the game world. It's like ZOS put them there so you can walk in (you know, maybe because some Undaunted dude in a tavern challenged you to go inside) but whoa! You can't solo it at level 10 or whatever while you're wandering around the game world.
Seems like the design is a bit weird.

In FFXIV and SWL if you try to walk into a dungeon, you get the Group Finder.

Im CP 271, still didn't do any undaunted.
I can join because everyday my guild invites people but I am just not interested in the skill line or the monster sets.

How can you not be interested in extra stats?Undaunted mettle is a pretty good passive.

Jhalin

FierceSam wrote: »

Shievarei wrote: »

I wonder if the people who act smart and tell others to not use the Group Finder know that they are basically supporting OP's point.

It's difficult.

Hey Shievarei

If encouraging OP not to use the group finder saves even 3 players from being grouped with them I will consider that a total victory..

And you are right, helping people can be difficult. It’s not always successful. But when it’s done right and it does work, it can be incredibly rewarding.

I’m almost certain OP would be a better group mate than you

If I tried to tell people stop standing in red, or to use more abilities than snipe, you get upset about me “not talking to them right”

DarcyMardin

I don’t pug a lot, but when I do, I’ve usually had decent experiences with the other players. My biggest objection is to the folks who race ahead, pull everything, or start fights before I get into the boss room (I’m usually on a healer or a tank).

Offering help is great if it’s done politely, in a friendly manner, instead of condescendingly. I recall one experience from a couple of years ago, where I queued for a random during a random dungeon event. I got a DLC dungeon that I wasn’t familiar with. I told the group I was going to leave so they could get a more experienced person, but they insisted I should stay and that they’d explain the mechanics.

Unfortunately, what this turned out to mean was they said “just follow us” and took off. In one room, the mechanics explanation consisted of “interrupt.” There were multiple mobs (I don’t now recall which dungeon this was) and no explanation of whom to interrupt or when. I was healing, but I kept an eye out for which adds should be bashed and did indeed bash a few while counting on the tank to interrupt the boss.

Unfortunately something went wrong and the group wiped. “Don’t you know how to interrupt?” screamed the leader in capital letters. Then he and his friend dropped group in disgust, leaving me and one of the DDs shaking our heads in confusion.

So if you’re going to help people who aren’t experts in the dungeon you’re pugging, please offer intelligible explanations, not just angry criticism.

Rungar

Seems counterproductive to me to chase players away but thats the model.

Stebarnz

If I pug a normal for what ever reason (geode, xp, bored) I don't care and will carry whatever is lacking in the group as they are easy, if we get a tough dlc and group is poop ill just ask politely to be kicked so no timer.

I try not to pug vet nowadays it just leads to frustrations. So I have built up a friends list and I'm in several guilds that can create a decent group for whatever.

Its a weird situation as over the years my patience with trying to help people has been worn down to almost nothing because of being told to f'off im an elitist or any other random comment because people don't like being told they are poop.
This game is mega old now and there are so many vids and guides to watch, if someone doesn't know what to do then they are lazy.

As far as people playing for fun, I get it, but 1 persons fun cannot be at the expense of annoying 3 other people.

Watch a few vids or guides before you queue. that's all I ask. If you need help and its a good question ill answer with the best information I have, hell, if the person is sound ( ive met a few) ill craft a full set of whatever armour you want and help you with some gold! But the majority of tools mouthing off make it a frustrating time, hence the rarely pug.

Just my thoughts, peace.

VaranisArano

DarcyMardin wrote: »

I don’t pug a whole lot, but when I do, I’ve usually had decent experiences with the other players. My biggest objection is to the folks who race ahead, pull everything, or start fights before I get into the boss room (I’m usually on a healer or a tank).

I also dislike the folks who, even when told I’m doing the quest, bail from the dungeon after the final boss, before I can turn it in and get my skillpoint. Fortunately this doesn’t happen too often, but it *does* happen occasionally. Most people, though, in my experience, are considerate.

Offering help is great of it’s done politely, in a friendly manner, instead of condescendingly. I recall one experience from a couple of years ago, where I queued for a random (which I don’t usually do...I prefer to select the dungeon, but this was during a random dungeon event). I got a DLC dungeon that I wasn’t familiar with. I told this to the group and said I was going to leave and let them get a more experienced person, but they insisted I should stay and that they’d explain the mechanics.

Unfortunately, what this turned out to mean was they said “just follow us” and took off. In one room, the mechanics explanation consisted of “interrupt.” There were multiple mobs (I don’t now recall which dungeon this was) and no explanation of whom to interrupt or when. I was healing, but I kept and eye out for which adds should be bashed and did indeed bash a few while counting on the tank to bash the boss. Unfortunately something went wrong and the group wiped. “Don’t you know how to interrupt?” Screamed the leader in capitals letters. Then he and his friend dropped group in disgust, leaving me and one of of the DDs shaking our heads in confusion.

So if you’re going to help people who aren’t experts in the dungeon you’re pugging, please actually offer intelligible explanations, not just angry criticism.

Yep.

The runners usually get a comment feom my tank or healer to the effect of "Just don't blame me if you die before I get there."

The worst I remember was being the replacement tank on the first boss of Normal Arx Corinium. Its the snake boss where it heals if you don't get out of the AOE, right? So the previous tank and DD didnt bother to explain the mechanic. They just dropped group because "DPS is too low."

So I roll in on a level 25 nightblade tank, the remaining two players explain what happened, and I'm like "Its on normal. We'll be fine." We fight, I see the problem, explain "just stay out of the AOE or it heals" and we kill the snake. Then we complete the rest of the dungeon, no issues.

Like, seriously? All the original group needed was to know the mechanic. After that, they were great. The two that dropped missed out on an easy dungeon run.

Dusk_Coven

Philtho wrote: »

It's all single player for me right now and the balance for PvE has been spot on. Much of it is easy, but the bosses and such are a challenge. It's the sweet spot for me. I don't want the dev team to touch anything at this point.

I like it single-player as well actually and I like to do a lot of things solo because groups are often too impatient.
So for me, I'd like dungeons to have a solo mode. So I can actually stop and talk to the NPCs instead of the rest of the group charging forward and pushing the quest phases and scripted scenes causing me to basically miss everything.
There are a lot of cool little scenes... but evidently the designers didn't get the memo about what the MMO grinding community is like.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Problems come in when Players don't use Groupfinder appropriately.

Players queuing for Random dungeons at high levels when they know they can't complete all possible dungeons, and winding up in over their heads when they get a DLC dungeon.

But Random Normal is still using the group finder "appropriately" whether you can complete it or not. If not I bet a lot of tanks who think they can tank a dungeon (and probably CAN tank MOST Normal dungeons, even DLC ones) don't qualify because they're gonna get one-shot by Mighty Chudan over and over.
That said I personally don't like to waste my time with random draws so I queue with a lowbie or pull out a lowbie to help others queue. Sure it's a type of exploiting the Group Finder mechanics, but it's also legitimately helping a lowbie level too.

VaranisArano wrote: »

The worst I remember was being the replacement tank on the first boss of Normal Arx Corinium. Its the snake boss where it heals if you don't get out of the AOE, right? So the previous tank and DD didnt bother to explain the mechanic. They just dropped group because "DPS is too low."

I feel this is a symptom of the huge DPS disparity in the game right now.
When you can burn nMOL final boss before you even need to do any running phase something is wrong.
I just did it last night with a group of not-hard-core raiders who are basically doing training runs. We don't have the best dps but we still killed the last boss well before the platform beam phase. At the start of the second run phase the raid leader made the call to not do the running and instead drop ultis and burn the boss.
So it's like half the encounter mechanics didn't even happen.

When too much of this is possible, people get arrogant and start skipping mechanics. And when they can't they bail and find another team that can.
It is of course not surprising that people want the easy way out. But there are side effects.

D0PAMINE

Inaya wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

I did exactly 2 dungeons while leveling and have only done the public dungeons solo now ( @ 468 CP). Why? Because I explored the world, did all the quests, fished and relaxed and had fun. No desire to pug and run into a bunch of "WTF you never been in here before- Git gud?"

Some players like to start content at max level and maybe max or close to max CP as there is more room for error. The way I see it, a lot of players might not be naturally good at the beginning, but if they practice and are assisted (it takes patience from both parties) then they will do ok. One player I met in game years back who took me under his wing was pumped when I told him I had been duoing and soloing some Vet HM dungeons. He was also excited when I mentioned some of the players I assisted who are doing harder content than me.

Orjix

People want to play this game as a single player game because its an Elder Scrolls game, they don't (understandably) want people telling them how to play their Elder Scrolls game, and they want to be able to see/do everything in the game (again understandably, because it's an Elder Scrolls game). Some people are here for Elder Scrolls and are going to want to see and do everything like usual, multiplayer and group content be damned, its an Elder Scrolls game

Dusk_Coven

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Some players like to start content at max level and maybe max or close to max CP as there is more room for error. The way I see it, a lot of players might not be naturally good at the beginning, but if they practice and are assisted (it takes patience from both parties) then they will do ok.

I think a part of this might be CP-culture. If you don't have CP you are somehow inferior.
Except that One Tamriel scaling makes things really interesting because they really did accomplish most of their goal of letting friends of all level adventure together.

I remember my very first trial -- normal Hel Ra Citadel. I was level 40-ish, on my first and only toon, using green crafted gear that gave me shields and healing when low on health. We had a super casual group that just charged in and we were doing well at the gargoyles and skellies until suddenly people started dying. Me (newb Mag Warden) and Boo Boo the Bear pet were literally the last ones standing and I was scrambling around fending off two gargoyles and a bunch of archers for several minutes before I gave up because there was obviously no chance to rez anyone.

Not sure how people get put off trying dungeons at lower levels. Maybe it's because they feel they need at least gear cap CP or it's wasted effort deconning all the gear you get.

Goregrinder

Pug = Public Group. AKA Random group, AKA pick-up group. That would be like showing up to the noon pick-up hockey game at a local ice rink, playing against whoever shoes up, and they heckle me for not using Ovetchkins $300 hockey stick, or skating on Bauers instead of CCMs, or why I never go for slap shots and only for snap shots.

You want professional performance, don't go to a public domain.

grkkll

I mostly heal vet pledges, the only issue I can't abide is low dps. In the past week I've hit this in BC2 and DsC2 to such an extent that we couldn't finish the dungeon, final boss in BC and the "jellyfish" in DsC. I just leave, there's no way bad dps is going to get better in these scenarios

FrancisCrawford

DarcyMardin wrote: »

I don’t pug a lot, but when I do, I’ve usually had decent experiences with the other players. My biggest objection is to the folks who race ahead, pull everything, or start fights before I get into the boss room (I’m usually on a healer or a tank).

Offering help is great of it’s done politely, in a friendly manner, instead of condescendingly. I recall one experience from a couple of years ago, where I queued for a random during a random dungeon event. I got a DLC dungeon that I wasn’t familiar with. I told this to the group and said I was going to leave so they could get a more experienced person, but they insisted I should stay and that they’d explain the mechanics.

Unfortunately, what this turned out to mean was they said “just follow us” and took off. In one room, the mechanics explanation consisted of “interrupt.” There were multiple mobs (I don’t now recall which dungeon this was) and no explanation of whom to interrupt or when. I was healing, but I kept an eye out for which adds should be bashed and did indeed bash a few while counting on the tank to interrupt the boss.

Unfortunately something went wrong and the group wiped. “Don’t you know how to interrupt?” screamed the leader in capital letters. Then he and his friend dropped group in disgust, leaving me and one of the DDs shaking our heads in confusion.

So if you’re going to help people who aren’t experts in the dungeon you’re pugging, please offer intelligible explanations, not just angry criticism.

I was on that run too. It was Cradle of Shadows. And that was to this day the most unpleasant dungeon run I have had.

Another of my less pleasant runs was the only other time I did CoS. I did complete it that time, but the most experienced person in the group was pretty rude about those of us who didn't know the dungeon already.

By way of contrast, I tried Frostvault once only to realize I had no idea which skill did what on my Skeevatron bar. So of course I was beyond useless in the final fight, but my groupmates shrugged it off. And I've had good runs in a lot of other DLC dungeons, as a strong or weak contributor as the case may be. Even the other time or two we've had to abandon the run things were at least civil.

Jhalin

Goregrinder wrote: »

Pug = Public Group. AKA Random group, AKA pick-up group. That would be like showing up to the noon pick-up hockey game at a local ice rink, playing against whoever shoes up, and they heckle me for not using Ovetchkins $300 hockey stick, or skating on Bauers instead of CCMs, or why I never go for slap shots and only for snap shots.

You want professional performance, don't go to a public domain.

More like someone expects you to know which goal to aim for, and then you get mad when someone tells you you’re shooting for the wrong net.

Or expecting you had some idea of how to play hockey, but you’re grabbing the puck and throwing it like a frisbee.

Goregrinder

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Pug = Public Group. AKA Random group, AKA pick-up group. That would be like showing up to the noon pick-up hockey game at a local ice rink, playing against whoever shoes up, and they heckle me for not using Ovetchkins $300 hockey stick, or skating on Bauers instead of CCMs, or why I never go for slap shots and only for snap shots.

You want professional performance, don't go to a public domain.

More like someone expects you to know which goal to aim for, and then you get mad when someone tells you you’re shooting for the wrong net.

Or expecting you had some idea of how to play hockey, but you’re grabbing the puck and throwing it like a frisbee.

Yup that's what you can expect at pick-up games. Some people played D1, others just started 6 months ago and are still figuring it out. To expect anything else would be illogical.

Jhalin

Goregrinder wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Pug = Public Group. AKA Random group, AKA pick-up group. That would be like showing up to the noon pick-up hockey game at a local ice rink, playing against whoever shoes up, and they heckle me for not using Ovetchkins $300 hockey stick, or skating on Bauers instead of CCMs, or why I never go for slap shots and only for snap shots.

You want professional performance, don't go to a public domain.

More like someone expects you to know which goal to aim for, and then you get mad when someone tells you you’re shooting for the wrong net.

Or expecting you had some idea of how to play hockey, but you’re grabbing the puck and throwing it like a frisbee.

Yup that's what you can expect at pick-up games. Some people played D1, others just started 6 months ago and are still figuring it out. To expect anything else would be illogical.

Being new is expected. Those new players responding with screw off, or “don’t tell me how to play”, or just plain ignoring all advice any time someone tries to give them basic instructions, and ruining the game for everyone on their team, is not expected nor acceptable.

rotaugen454

grkkll wrote: »

I mostly heal vet pledges, the only issue I can't abide is low dps. In the past week I've hit this in BC2 and DsC2 to such an extent that we couldn't finish the dungeon, final boss in BC and the "jellyfish" in DsC. I just leave, there's no way bad dps is going to get better in these scenarios

That had to be horrible DPS in DsC2, as I have siloed it. The toughest boss for me was one the early ones who had a stun and kept summoning adds. The final boss was easy compared to that.