Bad/clueless/unwilling to learn people in dungeons

D0PAMINE

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Form your own group

Lauranae

dungeons ..... my nightmares for a long time .... even coming from a long history of raiding where you were not added in group if you did not have your potions, your food, and be ready to listen to learn

but nowadays dungeons are strangely populated by different kind of players (me included)

- the one who knows all but dont want to explain
- the one who knows nothing but lead and run ahead
- the one who just want to run, no matter the level
- the one who is not geared (a mix of this and that, just enough to have some protection)
- the noob so scared to be kicked that he avoid using all skills (no kidding i was one of those on ESO for very long time)
- the healer who never heals but lead the party wayyyyyyy front of the group and is not happy because they died -
- the tank who is not a tank but *its an easy instance* and die a lot because he should not tank
- the grumpy one, yelling, insulting, and leaving because the group dont want to do as him (good or bad)
- the one(s) in hurry, rushing and leaving right at the second the final boss is dead and baring the one with a quest to finish
- the dps aggroing all, and dieing always blaming the healer and the tank

and surely more, BUT

if you enter an instance with pug, take the time to ask if they know the instance. If not try to explain at each boss.
Do your best, ignore the stupids, and if even doing this if the group is bad, then .... leave.
Dont leave if they die but give their best. A one time instance even with the best help is sometimes not enough to understand a boss fight.

If you dont feel in the mood to be the *gentle prof* then dont pug that day. Ask friends or guildies

MajBludd

How about relax and have fun. You are not going to get a scholarship, a job promotion, hit the lottery because of how smooth a dungeon run went. It is a game, so have fun..if the people you are grouped with make it less fun, leave the group.

FierceSam

pdblake wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Maybe, like me, they've taken time to enjoy the rest of the game playing solo, only doing the dungeon and group stuff when they get around to it.

I'm CP450+ (forget how much exactly), and have only done few dungeons ages ago. My current main hasn't been inside a group dungeon at all, but can solo every public dungeon he's come across. I'm only now toying with the idea of pugging a dungeon. Still not been to Cyrodill.

Hey dude,

Snap. CP 450 before I did a dungeon. Although you sound like you’re way further along than I was...

Try them. They’re great. Have a go at some random normals. Check out Xynode’s All About Mechanics YouTube vids, or his add on if you want to get a feel for them beforehand.

If it’s your first and you’re a bit trepidacious about it, you can select Specific Dungeon and choose one of the easier ones - Fungal Grotto 1, Banished Cells 1, Weyrest Sewers 1.. that way you will avoid being shunted into a harder one, where knowing exactly how it works is more important.

Tell your group in chat it’s your first time there and I’m sure they’ll be cool. You’ll meet some great people.

Have fun

Jhalin

FierceSam wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

“Elitist w***er blames others for own failings” shocker

You’re bothered by the way others play?

1. Don’t play with others, or

2. Set up guild with express purpose of helping others improve

3. Stop whining about it to others, you sound like a sad spoilt child

People like you are exactly why others give up on teaching newbies. You, clearly, have no desire to learn how to be a team player.

That’s fine, until you start trying to force other players to put it up with you while you cry “elitist” the moment someone tells you how to get better at the game

Hey dude,

There are many different ways to encourage others to learn. Personally, I don’t think any of them begin by having the attitude that the OP does. You can’t be starting with an attitude simply because someone doesn’t know something or isn’t as experienced as you are... I mean imagine how that would work in kindergarten, where almost none of the children know anything.

Belittlement, superiority and abuse are rarely effective teaching tools

It may seem a little petty, but you don’t tell people to get better, you help them.

I quite clearly said, “tell them how to get better”. That IS helping them.

Imagine thinking it’s “superiority” that makes someone think standing in red is stupid

Huyen

Lauranae wrote: »

dungeons ..... my nightmares for a long time .... even coming from a long history of raiding where you were not added in group if you did not have your potions, your food, and be ready to listen to learn

but nowadays dungeons are strangely populated by different kind of players (me included)

- the one who knows all but dont want to explain
- the one who knows nothing but lead and run ahead
- the one who just want to run, no matter the level
- the one who is not geared (a mix of this and that, just enough to have some protection)
- the noob so scared to be kicked that he avoid using all skills (no kidding i was one of those on ESO for very long time)
- the healer who never heals but lead the party wayyyyyyy front of the group and is not happy because they died -
- the tank who is not a tank but *its an easy instance* and die a lot because he should not tank
- the grumpy one, yelling, insulting, and leaving because the group dont want to do as him (good or bad)
- the one(s) in hurry, rushing and leaving right at the second the final boss is dead and baring the one with a quest to finish
- the dps aggroing all, and dieing always blaming the healer and the tank

and surely more, BUT

if you enter an instance with pug, take the time to ask if they know the instance. If not try to explain at each boss.
Do your best, ignore the stupids, and if even doing this if the group is bad, then .... leave.
Dont leave if they die but give their best. A one time instance even with the best help is sometimes not enough to understand a boss fight.

If you dont feel in the mood to be the *gentle prof* then dont pug that day. Ask friends or guildies

I stopped waiting after the last boss, or asking if people know the dungeon a long time ago. People are less social each day, and if you get salty responses, or more often then not no response at all, the drive to be social and fair is soon gone. I dont mind tanking in pugs (I usally play alone, hence I dont got a guild, not even for trading), but this way its just getting the stuff done, and off I go again.

Naftal

The problem is that the game doesn't teach the basics and the skyrim online players aren't willing to learn themselves.

There should be mandatory tutorials for different roles where you have to complete some basic mechanics before the game lets you in queues.

Coatmagic

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Did not step foot in an undaunted dungeon until after I was near cp cap and able to solo the non vet vanilla ones ~ this was the beginning of this year and I've been playing nearly daily since beta.

Why?

Because of posts like this one -_-

And I still won't pug. Ever.

People are gonna people; sadly.

PS: There's plenty of other things to do in this game that group dungeons and dolmens *shrug*

Alienoutlaw

if Ego's could group they wouldnt need a group finder

nickl413

Vote to kick daedalusAI from thread.

dalishdelight

It took me forever to try the dungeon finder cause of ppl like this, I waited till i could do the minimum damage required back when it was still 30k. That said, must of the pugs I've run into now are actually very willing to listen and learn mechanics. You just need to be a little patient with then, and it is really rewarding when they finally beat the dungeon cause you know you helped. But that might just be me I guess

Raisin

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

I didn't go into my first dungeon until I had 400+ CP. Played for years, and got 250 CP in the other server too before that.

Anyway, I don't disagree that you gotta lower your expectations for PUGs, but that doesn't mean you gotta accept everything you're given. It's a group activity and people have to be willing to put effort into teamplay. If someone is completely hindering the group and refuse to make any changes, it's perfectly reasonable to kick them.
Not to mention it goes both ways. If people have to accept and just deal with others with lower standards if they PUG... Then people have to just deal with it if they get someone with higher standards and accept that. There's no one side that's more obligated to bend to the other's will. Not anyone's fault if the group's playstyles aren't compatible.

I think a lot of people are finding it way too easy to be nasty towards OP in this. It's valid to get pissed off sometimes, and OP was just expressing that. Salty sure, but the things you're projecting onto them instead of just giving people the right to be human sometimes is just wild. I don't believe one second that you're all saints claiming you'd never get annoyed by getting a *** PUG.
Honestly it's easy from reading the OP that they were being nice and helpful to the people in question and they're annoyed it didn't work. Which we've established yes, people don't have to listen, gotta live with that. But their post isn't very aggressive and they're clearly letting out an annoyance they usually wouldn't. People just find it easy to project bad intentions onto others so they have something to be mad about. Y'all managed to take some dude who tries to offer explanations to people and needs to vent the PUGs don't meet their gameplay standard, and created this cartoony supervillain elitist *** who encapsulates the whole idea of forcing your playstyle unto others and gatekeeping until you personally are scared of joining PUGs. When there's a high chance this is a nice friendly person to meet a PUG. Because you needed someone to personify your problems. Outrage culture to the max.

SpacemanSpiff1

Pugging is a crap shoot. Sometimes you get a good group, sometimes you get clueless players that really strain your back to carry, sometimes you get selfish pricks that fake roles to cut in line, sometimes you get raging buttholes that talk trash.

I recommend queuing with at least 1 friend/guildie to lessen the frustration.

kylewwefan

The story of my eso life. Every gd day. But keep going. Eventually you get some quite spectacular groups.

I’d also encourage you to put siege shield on your bar. So you can show them you can be bad too.

OtarTheMad

daedalusAI wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

Then dont pug?

What is that supposed to even mean:

• You play with people you know and are fine with them not knowing anything even with a high CP number
• You expect basic things like what I described in my OP, but then the question is why you expect those things of the people you play with, and not the general player population

High CP does not mean much honestly. I have over 1000 CP atm but been doing PvP mostly since launch. I do dungeons occasionally with friends but not enough to remember mechanics. I could go grind a DK tank to 50 and it'd say to you that I am 1000 CP but that doesn't mean I have tanked before or have all the abilities I need for it unlocked since you can grind to 50 in no time.

Juhasow

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

Well I've met over 1100 CP player who never did any trial even on normal mode and only did few group dungeons because all what he was doing was every solo quest and storyline possible on multiple characters. You know it's still "play as You want" game and people play as they want sometimes choosing solo activities because that gives them fun. There is no pattern to follow when it comes to ESO everyone chooses his/her own path.

InvictusApollo

daedalusAI wrote: »

It's just infuriating how bad/clueless the large majority of players are, and then they just refuse to listen to anything you're telling them:

• CP 320 DK with bow/DW, but his only AoE is spamming Noxious Breath
• Level 45 sorc whose sole goal in life is to spam Crystal Shards until the end of time, no matter what you're telling him
• CP 450 who thinks food is for the weak and runs around with 10k HP; but there seems to be a general aversion to using food in dungeons, or at all for that matter
• CP from 1 to 810 who just refuse to move out of big red telegraphed effects and die as a result, but then get irritated if you point them towards that fact

I'm far from a really good player, but some things like moving out of big red telegraphed effects, slotting at least 1 AoE and listening to feedback from players who just might know more than you are things I have to expect.

What can I say? Look at the distribution of IQ in population and take into consideration that the lower IQ score, the lower is an individual's capacity to learn. Now take into consideration that incompetent players often get carried by others and you will come to the same conclusion that this game fails to provide learning experience that would force players to increase their competence.

At least we have carebear guilds that somewhat increase players skill through tutoring. Although I do wish that more of their officers would have more balls to provide a more eye's opening constrictive criticism.

Agenericname

Raisin wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

I didn't go into my first dungeon until I had 400+ CP. Played for years, and got 250 CP in the other server too before that.

Anyway, I don't disagree that you gotta lower your expectations for PUGs, but that doesn't mean you gotta accept everything you're given. It's a group activity and people have to be willing to put effort into teamplay. If someone is completely hindering the group and refuse to make any changes, it's perfectly reasonable to kick them.
Not to mention it goes both ways. If people have to accept and just deal with others with lower standards if they PUG... Then people have to just deal with it if they get someone with higher standards and accept that. There's no one side that's more obligated to bend to the other's will. Not anyone's fault if the group's playstyles aren't compatible.

I think a lot of people are finding it way too easy to be nasty towards OP in this. It's valid to get pissed off sometimes, and OP was just expressing that. Salty sure, but the things you're projecting onto them instead of just giving people the right to be human sometimes is just wild. I don't believe one second that you're all saints claiming you'd never get annoyed by getting a *** PUG.
Honestly it's easy from reading the OP that they were being nice and helpful to the people in question and they're annoyed it didn't work. Which we've established yes, people don't have to listen, gotta live with that. But their post isn't very aggressive and they're clearly letting out an annoyance they usually wouldn't. People just find it easy to project bad intentions onto others so they have something to be mad about. Y'all managed to take some dude who tries to offer explanations to people and needs to vent the PUGs don't meet their gameplay standard, and created this cartoony supervillain elitist *** who encapsulates the whole idea of forcing your playstyle unto others and gatekeeping until you personally are scared of joining PUGs. When there's a high chance this is a nice friendly person to meet a PUG. Because you needed someone to personify your problems. Outrage culture to the max.

It's not obvious from the OP that they're nice and helpful. It's obvious that they're frustrated. There's not much else to draw a conclusion from. It's just a rant.

I doubt that anyone has claimed they're a saint. I'm certainly not. What separates us as humans is how we cope with others when we are frustrated. It's easy to be nice when everything is going well.

If they're running with a level 45 sorc, it's a normal dungeon. Don't PUG normal dungeons, they're scary.

Kagukan

Spamming crystals can be extremely effective in the right situation. I have used it many times.

rotaugen454

A lot of it can be how you talk to them. In close to six years, I’ve quit from a group that refused to listen 3 times, and I’ll pug a lot. If you are friendly, most will listen. I’ve even done quick training classes in dungeons and people left better players. I EXPECT a lot of bad play going in and just try to help.

Raisin

Agenericname wrote: »

Raisin wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

I didn't go into my first dungeon until I had 400+ CP. Played for years, and got 250 CP in the other server too before that.

Anyway, I don't disagree that you gotta lower your expectations for PUGs, but that doesn't mean you gotta accept everything you're given. It's a group activity and people have to be willing to put effort into teamplay. If someone is completely hindering the group and refuse to make any changes, it's perfectly reasonable to kick them.
Not to mention it goes both ways. If people have to accept and just deal with others with lower standards if they PUG... Then people have to just deal with it if they get someone with higher standards and accept that. There's no one side that's more obligated to bend to the other's will. Not anyone's fault if the group's playstyles aren't compatible.

I think a lot of people are finding it way too easy to be nasty towards OP in this. It's valid to get pissed off sometimes, and OP was just expressing that. Salty sure, but the things you're projecting onto them instead of just giving people the right to be human sometimes is just wild. I don't believe one second that you're all saints claiming you'd never get annoyed by getting a *** PUG.
Honestly it's easy from reading the OP that they were being nice and helpful to the people in question and they're annoyed it didn't work. Which we've established yes, people don't have to listen, gotta live with that. But their post isn't very aggressive and they're clearly letting out an annoyance they usually wouldn't. People just find it easy to project bad intentions onto others so they have something to be mad about. Y'all managed to take some dude who tries to offer explanations to people and needs to vent the PUGs don't meet their gameplay standard, and created this cartoony supervillain elitist *** who encapsulates the whole idea of forcing your playstyle unto others and gatekeeping until you personally are scared of joining PUGs. When there's a high chance this is a nice friendly person to meet a PUG. Because you needed someone to personify your problems. Outrage culture to the max.

It's not obvious from the OP that they're nice and helpful. It's obvious that they're frustrated. There's not much else to draw a conclusion from. It's just a rant.

I doubt that anyone has claimed they're a saint. I'm certainly not. What separates us as humans is how we cope with others when we are frustrated. It's easy to be nice when everything is going well.

If they're running with a level 45 sorc, it's a normal dungeon. Don't PUG normal dungeons, they're scary.

Well we don't know how OP coped with their groupmbers when frustrated, and I'm convinced they did just fine.
Most of the people in this thread? They've already demonstrated right here the way they do it is completely inappropriate and absolutely atrocious. So OP already had one up on them just for lack of proof.

Casul

I feel you OP, there are certain expectations for every role.

Tank : taunt and stand still
Healer: heal at least do a little off damage
DPS: have at least 1 dot, 1 ground AoE dot, and 1 spammable.

If everyone maintains this at minimum then most non DLC normal dungeons are a breeze. Of course on vet the requirements get more demanding as to be expected.

SquawkTheMajestic

daedalusAI wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

If you aren't prepared to get what's in the "box of chocolates" ... don't pug dungeons. Period.

I guess what you really want to say is: don't have expectations of any kind if you're pugging, even if they're self-evident as in moving out of telegraphed effects, right?

No, he said what he wanted to say. I'm a top tier player and I would hate to have someone like you in a dungeon with me, especially if you were being rude to someone who was a below average player.

People who are bad at games don't WANT to be bad. I've met CP810 people who have never set foot in a BG because they were afraid of ruining the team's experience and feeling stupid. I've met people who never tried vet dungeons because they thought there was so much happening on the screen and they didn't want to die or let their team down. People like you shouldn't group with randoms because you're not equipped to have patience or compassion. It's fine, it's not for everyone, but I personally can't stand your attitude and think you should be ashamed of yourself.

I run dungeons with an older woman sometimes. She's a hoot and she knows a lot about the game, but there's just too much sensory overload for her with all the flashies and spell effects. I've been encouraging her to try more, with a "screw it" approach if it doesn't work. She did her first sunspire clear yesterday and I was really proud of her.

Raisin

rotaugen454 wrote: »

A lot of it can be how you talk to them. In close to six years, I’ve quit from a group that refused to listen 3 times, and I’ll pug a lot. If you are friendly, most will listen. I’ve even done quick training classes in dungeons and people left better players. I EXPECT a lot of bad play going in and just try to help.

I strongly disagree with "if you're friendly, most will listen". I know from experience that's not true. Yeah I know someone will say maybe I wasn't nice. I typed a bit of an essay here trying to showcase that I am indeed the sweetest damn thing when giving advice to PUGs, but it made me sound like a *** so I cut it.
Just gotta take my word for it -- a lot of people simply don't want to change their playstyle. It doesn't matter how nice you are, it's just not something they're interested in and explanations and advice aren't welcome. Which is fine, cause it's their choice. Some will also find it patronizing.

Michae

Are you talking about vet or normal? I think those things are perfectly acceptable on normal, a one armed, one eyed monkey could get throught those ok and pulling massive dps isn't really required. On vet, well, maybe you're not polite enough? I understand that one can get frustrated and give unintentionally salty responses but I think the things you're talking about just come with the territory on random normal. The game itself sucks at explaining how things work and some people just don't have the time or dedication to properly gear up and work out skills and rotations. I know I certainly find it hard since my playtime is limited. Also you have to start somewhere. It's perfectly doable to get to 810 CP without ever stepping into the dungeon so you should consider the fact that you'll be playing with noobs as almost certainty when you que up for random dungeon. I'm around CP 500 and I didn't run even half of the dungeons even once. Be more patient with us newbies.

And respect goes both ways. Yesterday I tried to finally do the quests from Wrathstone in preparation for starting Elsweyr storyline and there was this guy rushing through the dungeon alone, leaving me and other two players behind despite our constant asking to slow down because of the quest. We were on normal.

idk

First of all CP has little to do with the determination of how good the dps is. Myself and others I have known have out dpsed CP capped players when we were on alt accounts/alt server and only had about CP 160.

Second, and more important, when you choose to use GF to form your group you are specifically requesting randomness in the quality and personality of the players you will be grouped with. If you want a certain caliber of player then form your own group. Coming to the forums to complain about the GF group you got when you asked for the randomness seems a little misplaced.

Asardes

Build so you can solo and don't queue for vet unless it's a tier 1 dungeon. That way you will carry the group no matter how bad it is. I usually don't bring characters in group content until they're fully leveled, gear and I've learned to play them reasonably well - this means I'm able to solo all but a few of the world bosses in the game, the Craglorn delves (Shada's Tear, Skyreach, Rani-Za etc.) and have finished vMA.

FearlessOne_2014

Weesacs wrote: »

Then dont pug?

This is the only way. Matter of fact since you can't find good friends or guildies. Maybe OP and people like OP might be better off playing better single player games.

In ESO's group finder. ~You PUG with randos, you lose!~ It's as simple as that. You don't want to lose? Then find pre mades group to get clears. Again... ~If you PUG with randos, you lose!~

rotaugen454

Raisin wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

A lot of it can be how you talk to them. In close to six years, I’ve quit from a group that refused to listen 3 times, and I’ll pug a lot. If you are friendly, most will listen. I’ve even done quick training classes in dungeons and people left better players. I EXPECT a lot of bad play going in and just try to help.

I strongly disagree with "if you're friendly, most will listen". I know from experience that's not true. Yeah I know someone will say maybe I wasn't nice. I typed a bit of an essay here trying to showcase that I am indeed the sweetest damn thing when giving advice to PUGs, but it made me sound like a *** so I cut it.
Just gotta take my word for it -- a lot of people simply don't want to change their playstyle. It doesn't matter how nice you are, it's just not something they're interested in and explanations and advice aren't welcome. Which is fine, cause it's their choice. Some will also find it patronizing.

Maybe it hasn’t been true for you, but it hasn’t been the horror story you’ve had for me. I’m on PC/NA. If I’m patient and not condescending, it’s been ok.

For those saying that you’ll lose by pugging, I’ve somehow completed many a Vet dungeon while pugging. I haven’t pugged a vet trial though.

J2JMC

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Not a joke: I've met CP 160+ toons where the player claims it's their first dungeon EVER.

Maybe they power levelled. Maybe they used XP boosts. Maybe they started during a double XP event. Maybe they levelled their alt doing daily writs. Whatever. Point is, something is going on and some people don't step foot in dungeons till way into their mid to late game.

Some of what you wrote though -- sounds like maybe while they were leveling they forgot to level their skill lines <.<

The game doesn't actually start until CP160 thanks to battle leveling, so this is understandable. Everything before that is just roleplay filler.

To OP, stop using the Group Finder. Problem solved. There's literally a guild Recruitment section and a looking for Group section you can go to where you can find players that don't stand in red.