PTS Update 23 - Feedback Thread for PvE DPS

IonicKai

AMeanOne wrote: »

Ashjunkie wrote: »

Isn't there a way to just nerf people while they are in cyrodil since it is the PVPers that seem to complain about the power of classes the most instead of messing w/ the PVErs as well? The proposed changes to our pet sorcs seems more painful than any of the previous patches... and the orbs. THE ORBS!!!??

The nerfs are not only because of pvp. Pve dps is crazy high compared to what it used to be and pve healers complained about not feeling needed.

This is not how you fix PVE DPS being so strong or PVE healer relevance. This patch is a perfect example of how to push further towards abandoning healers and will only help the already highly skilled players for PVE DPS and justify not bringing in healers because a couple self/group heals are almost equivalent to what a healer could do.

Runefang

IonicKai wrote: »

AMeanOne wrote: »

Ashjunkie wrote: »

Isn't there a way to just nerf people while they are in cyrodil since it is the PVPers that seem to complain about the power of classes the most instead of messing w/ the PVErs as well? The proposed changes to our pet sorcs seems more painful than any of the previous patches... and the orbs. THE ORBS!!!??

The nerfs are not only because of pvp. Pve dps is crazy high compared to what it used to be and pve healers complained about not feeling needed.

This is not how you fix PVE DPS being so strong or PVE healer relevance. This patch is a perfect example of how to push further towards abandoning healers and will only help the already highly skilled players for PVE DPS and justify not bringing in healers because a couple self/group heals are almost equivalent to what a healer could do.

If nerfing PvE DPS was their goal they will have failed miserably. While AoE damage is nerfed we'll see more and more people set up specifically for AoE damage on trash pulls because they have no choice and ironically AoE dps could increase. Single target damage is higher than ever before and because there are so many good single target dots which stick to a target it will make mobile boss fights especially easy.

Masel

Nyqwont wrote: »

ZOS - here's your tl;dl player feedback:
your 'changes' (won't use the n word) make no sense, frustrate most players and generally decrease player enjoyment. They make the game worse.

And were do you get that from? I have heard a lot of positive responses as well, the complaints are just (as usual) louder and more vocal, but not more frequent based on what I observed.

Masel

Ashjunkie wrote: »

Isn't there a way to just nerf people while they are in cyrodil since it is the PVPers that seem to complain about the power of classes the most instead of messing w/ the PVErs as well? The proposed changes to our pet sorcs seems more painful than any of the previous patches... and the orbs. THE ORBS!!!??

Orbs are actually crazy strong now. You cast one, and you are able to provide an insane amount of sustain, which allows you to spam orbs less and focus on debuffing/healing through other sources.

Have you looked at the tooltip of mystic orbs on a DD btw? It deals insane damage in full aoe, gives others sustain and a burst aoe damage hit.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Masel wrote: »

Ashjunkie wrote: »

Isn't there a way to just nerf people while they are in cyrodil since it is the PVPers that seem to complain about the power of classes the most instead of messing w/ the PVErs as well? The proposed changes to our pet sorcs seems more painful than any of the previous patches... and the orbs. THE ORBS!!!??

Orbs are actually crazy strong now. You cast one, and you are able to provide an insane amount of sustain, which allows you to spam orbs less and focus on debuffing/healing through other sources.

Have you looked at the tooltip of mystic orbs on a DD btw? It deals insane damage in full aoe, gives others sustain and a burst aoe damage hit.

yup, everyone is sleeping on orbs.

live-


1520 every 1 second for 3902 magic

pts-




1358 every half = 2716 every second for 3213



so 82% more damage for 18% less cost. they definitely can go on a dps bar now, as far as i can see.

Masel

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Ashjunkie wrote: »

Isn't there a way to just nerf people while they are in cyrodil since it is the PVPers that seem to complain about the power of classes the most instead of messing w/ the PVErs as well? The proposed changes to our pet sorcs seems more painful than any of the previous patches... and the orbs. THE ORBS!!!??

Orbs are actually crazy strong now. You cast one, and you are able to provide an insane amount of sustain, which allows you to spam orbs less and focus on debuffing/healing through other sources.

Have you looked at the tooltip of mystic orbs on a DD btw? It deals insane damage in full aoe, gives others sustain and a burst aoe damage hit.

yup, everyone is sleeping on orbs.

live-


1520 every 1 second for 3902 magic

pts-




1358 every half = 2716 every second for 3213



so 82% more damage for 18% less cost. they definitely can go on a dps bar now, as far as i can see.

They also travel slower. On big hitbox bosses they can actually hit all of their hits.

Vahrokh

Evito wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

Petsorc is not bad, this is virtually the same build that is top single target on live, I just replaced lightning flood with degeneration (Soul Trap does a bit more damage but this setup wasn't reliably sustainable without Degeneration).

The tormentor serves no purpose now. The Tormentor, Soul Trap, Flame Reach and Entropy all do pretty similar damage, but the tormentor takes up 2 ability slots, so why bother using it at all?

The scamp beats the tormentor for both aoe and single target, so it's just the superior pet now. I believe the tormentor either needs the nerfs scaled back a little, or the enrage ability needs to last for the entire duration of the fight, and not stop at 50% (which I think is a better solution as the pet would become more active).

What sets was this done with?

Siroria (single barred)/Mother's Sorrow/vMA staff/Zaan

I would love to know how 100% of the magsorcs I know (who do hm vMOL, vCR+2/3 etc) struggle to top 50k DPS, but internet magsorcs are all 90k and stuff.

John_Falstaff

Vahrokh wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

Petsorc is not bad, this is virtually the same build that is top single target on live, I just replaced lightning flood with degeneration (Soul Trap does a bit more damage but this setup wasn't reliably sustainable without Degeneration).

The tormentor serves no purpose now. The Tormentor, Soul Trap, Flame Reach and Entropy all do pretty similar damage, but the tormentor takes up 2 ability slots, so why bother using it at all?

The scamp beats the tormentor for both aoe and single target, so it's just the superior pet now. I believe the tormentor either needs the nerfs scaled back a little, or the enrage ability needs to last for the entire duration of the fight, and not stop at 50% (which I think is a better solution as the pet would become more active).

What sets was this done with?

Siroria (single barred)/Mother's Sorrow/vMA staff/Zaan

I would love to know how 100% of the magsorcs I know (who do hm vMOL, vCR+2/3 etc) struggle to top 50k DPS, but internet magsorcs are all 90k and stuff.

With discrepancy of 40k between parses? Can only mean they're just parsing on non-raid dummies. The published 90k parses are all made on iron atro.

Vahrokh

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

Petsorc is not bad, this is virtually the same build that is top single target on live, I just replaced lightning flood with degeneration (Soul Trap does a bit more damage but this setup wasn't reliably sustainable without Degeneration).

The tormentor serves no purpose now. The Tormentor, Soul Trap, Flame Reach and Entropy all do pretty similar damage, but the tormentor takes up 2 ability slots, so why bother using it at all?

The scamp beats the tormentor for both aoe and single target, so it's just the superior pet now. I believe the tormentor either needs the nerfs scaled back a little, or the enrage ability needs to last for the entire duration of the fight, and not stop at 50% (which I think is a better solution as the pet would become more active).

What sets was this done with?

Siroria (single barred)/Mother's Sorrow/vMA staff/Zaan

I would love to know how 100% of the magsorcs I know (who do hm vMOL, vCR+2/3 etc) struggle to top 50k DPS, but internet magsorcs are all 90k and stuff.

With discrepancy of 40k between parses? Can only mean they're just parsing on non-raid dummies. The published 90k parses are all made on iron atro.

All I know in game - me included - train on 6M training dummies for solo. But what youtubers show, are solo parses for 90k... it's beyond absurd. Only guys I've ever seen coming close are my guildies playing stamblades, they do 82k in trial, not solo!
You might argue we all suck and stuff so... how comes we have hm vMOL and similar on farm? There's something that does not click with me here.

Vigawatt

John_Falstaff wrote: »

With discrepancy of 40k between parses? Can only mean they're just parsing on non-raid dummies. The published 90k parses are all made on iron atro.

I think he's referring to the "conversion" between non-trial and trial dummies. There is another thread discussing this, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484922/6mill-vs-21mill-dummy#latest. On the trial dummy all the buffs / debuffs are active, but in gameplay the buffs / debuffs have to come from somewhere. So for that 90k parse build, I'd want to see what the 3 or 6 mil parse is.

Destruent

Vahrokh wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

reprosal wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

Petsorc is not bad, this is virtually the same build that is top single target on live, I just replaced lightning flood with degeneration (Soul Trap does a bit more damage but this setup wasn't reliably sustainable without Degeneration).

The tormentor serves no purpose now. The Tormentor, Soul Trap, Flame Reach and Entropy all do pretty similar damage, but the tormentor takes up 2 ability slots, so why bother using it at all?

The scamp beats the tormentor for both aoe and single target, so it's just the superior pet now. I believe the tormentor either needs the nerfs scaled back a little, or the enrage ability needs to last for the entire duration of the fight, and not stop at 50% (which I think is a better solution as the pet would become more active).

What sets was this done with?

Siroria (single barred)/Mother's Sorrow/vMA staff/Zaan

I would love to know how 100% of the magsorcs I know (who do hm vMOL, vCR+2/3 etc) struggle to top 50k DPS, but internet magsorcs are all 90k and stuff.

With discrepancy of 40k between parses? Can only mean they're just parsing on non-raid dummies. The published 90k parses are all made on iron atro.

All I know in game - me included - train on 6M training dummies for solo. But what youtubers show, are solo parses for 90k... it's beyond absurd. Only guys I've ever seen coming close are my guildies playing stamblades, they do 82k in trial, not solo!
You might argue we all suck and stuff so... how comes we have hm vMOL and similar on farm? There's something that does not click with me here.

The iron attro provides lots of buffs, synergies and so on to simulate a raid situation. it'll bring 50k to around 80k if not even more....

xMovingTarget

Masel wrote: »

Nyqwont wrote: »

ZOS - here's your tl;dl player feedback:
your 'changes' (won't use the n word) make no sense, frustrate most players and generally decrease player enjoyment. They make the game worse.

And were do you get that from? I have heard a lot of positive responses as well, the complaints are just (as usual) louder and more vocal, but not more frequent based on what I observed.

Only 1 build for stamina on the top end. Running flurry.. With rest dots. Most non class. This is as far away from fun as it gets.
Example necro. Instead of zos fixing the skills on it(blastbones/syphon), they force people to go away from class main skills into weapon etc skills.That is where I and alot of player have issues with.

It appears they can't be bothered to actually fix class skills. So they push you into weapon skills. Where everyone runs the exact same build on every class(Rapid Strikes)
I have a huge issue with that. They didn't bother to fix blastbones and syphon since elsweyr PTS. And it is still bugged in the same way as back then.

I get it, you enjoy the game and you are a rep. But how can you be a fan of this? They make the game dull and bland. Instead of fixing what was broken.

WrathOfInnos

Would it be possible for the Twilight Tormentor to keep the heal from the unmorphed skill? It heals 1 player per cast instead of the 2 healed by the Matriarch morph. Giving it a dual purpose (damage and healing) would help justify requiring 2 bar slots. This would result in a choice in morphs between:
- Tormentor: Heals 1 ally, deals about the same damage as on live (Elsweyr patch)
- Matriarch: Heals 2 allies, deals about half the damage it used to

As for the current Tormentor active effect (reverse execute) it could be removed entirely, or made passive (like Amplitude). The damage boost from this does not justify using a global cooldown to activate it.

Masel

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Nyqwont wrote: »

ZOS - here's your tl;dl player feedback:
your 'changes' (won't use the n word) make no sense, frustrate most players and generally decrease player enjoyment. They make the game worse.

And were do you get that from? I have heard a lot of positive responses as well, the complaints are just (as usual) louder and more vocal, but not more frequent based on what I observed.

Only 1 build for stamina on the top end. Running flurry.. With rest dots. Most non class. This is as far away from fun as it gets.
Example necro. Instead of zos fixing the skills on it(blastbones/syphon), they force people to go away from class main skills into weapon etc skills.That is where I and alot of player have issues with.

It appears they can't be bothered to actually fix class skills. So they push you into weapon skills. Where everyone runs the exact same build on every class(Rapid Strikes)
I have a huge issue with that. They didn't bother to fix blastbones and syphon since elsweyr PTS. And it is still bugged in the same way as back then.

I get it, you enjoy the game and you are a rep. But how can you be a fan of this? They make the game dull and bland. Instead of fixing what was broken.

I never voiced my opinion anywhere, and me bring a rep has nothing to do with this, so stop trying to use it against me. It does not affect the feedback I pass on in any shape or form. Have I said I like that weapon skills are better than class skills right now?

I'm very much aware of the stale situation. But let me ask one question: what is this ability audit for? It is supposed to bring the numbers of abilities more in line before the classes are tackled individually so there is a more consistent foundation. They applied standards to abilities, and it happened to make weapon abilities better than class abilities for now, and for now only.

You can very justifiably be unsatisfied now, but this isnt a class balance patch, it is a number balancing patch before classes are tackled. This has been voiced by zos before, but people seem to forget that.

Also, in a situation where only single target damage matters you might be right that there are no options because there always is one best option. In sunspire, I (and as far as I see it others do too) happen to use very different gear setups depending on the fight and if you watch Hodors Godslayer, they do so too. Sure on a dummy you have only one setup, but in a trial that isnt filled with pure parse bosses you dont.

Am I happy that raids will still stack necros cause other classes have nothing comparable to bring to the table? No. But I still have hope that once the ability audit is done, we might have a better situation than we ever did because classes will have an identity they didnt have in a long time.

Also, let me put it this way: people complained about vma weapons being useless for a long time. Now they are used, and people complain that they "have to" put it on every build even though the difference between then and other options is marginally big. In a game where dps is the main goal for any encounter and by now, and where defense and survivability isnt important enough, the option that provides the highest dps will always be preferred.

And to the class ability fix thing: they are working on these things as fast as possible. Also, the patch notes included various fixes for class abilities, necro as well, are you ignoring those? Do I think the fixes should come faster? Yes, but they have a limited team number working on them. And you cant blame to combat team or the software engineers for that stuff, the size of divisions within the company is decided on a much higher leve by budgeting plans.

Last but not least, saying a sentence like "they cant be bothered to fix class skills, so they push you into weapon skills" is filled with implicit assumptions that you cannot verify. You dont know what their intentions are even though they have voiced them on stages of conventions and on these very forums right here in the last couple months.

xMovingTarget

Masel wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Nyqwont wrote: »

ZOS - here's your tl;dl player feedback:
your 'changes' (won't use the n word) make no sense, frustrate most players and generally decrease player enjoyment. They make the game worse.

And were do you get that from? I have heard a lot of positive responses as well, the complaints are just (as usual) louder and more vocal, but not more frequent based on what I observed.

Only 1 build for stamina on the top end. Running flurry.. With rest dots. Most non class. This is as far away from fun as it gets.
Example necro. Instead of zos fixing the skills on it(blastbones/syphon), they force people to go away from class main skills into weapon etc skills.That is where I and alot of player have issues with.

It appears they can't be bothered to actually fix class skills. So they push you into weapon skills. Where everyone runs the exact same build on every class(Rapid Strikes)
I have a huge issue with that. They didn't bother to fix blastbones and syphon since elsweyr PTS. And it is still bugged in the same way as back then.

I get it, you enjoy the game and you are a rep. But how can you be a fan of this? They make the game dull and bland. Instead of fixing what was broken.

I never voiced my opinion anywhere, and me bring a rep has nothing to do with this, so stop trying to use it against me. It does not affect the feedback I pass on in any shape or form. Have I said I like that weapon skills are better than class skills right now?

I'm very much aware of the stale situation. But let me ask one question: what is this ability audit for? It is supposed to bring the numbers of abilities more in line before the classes are tackled individually so there is a more consistent foundation. They applied standards to abilities, and it happened to make weapon abilities better than class abilities for now, and for now only.

You can very justifiably be unsatisfied now, but this isnt a class balance patch, it is a number balancing patch before classes are tackled. This has been voiced by zos before, but people seem to forget that.

Also, in a situation where only single target damage matters you might be right that there are no options because there always is one best option. In sunspire, I (and as far as I see it others do too) happen to use very different gear setups depending on the fight and if you watch Hodors Godslayer, they do so too. Sure on a dummy you have only one setup, but in a trial that isnt filled with pure parse bosses you dont.

Am I happy that raids will still stack necros cause other classes have nothing comparable to bring to the table? No. But I still have hope that once the ability audit is done, we might have a better situation than we ever did because classes will have an identity they didnt have in a long time.

Also, let me put it this way: people complained about vma weapons being useless for a long time. Now they are used, and people complain that they "have to" put it on every build even though the difference between then and other options is marginally big. In a game where dps is the main goal for any encounter and by now, and where defense and survivability isnt important enough, the option that provides the highest dps will always be preferred.

And to the class ability fix thing: they are working on these things as fast as possible. Also, the patch notes included various fixes for class abilities, necro as well, are you ignoring those? Do I think the fixes should come faster? Yes, but they have a limited team number working on them. And you cant blame to combat team or the software engineers for that stuff, the size of divisions within the company is decided on a much higher leve by budgeting plans.

Last but not least, saying a sentence like "they cant be bothered to fix class skills, so they push you into weapon skills" is filled with implicit assumptions that you cannot verify. You dont know what their intentions are even though they have voiced them on stages of conventions and on these very forums right here in the last couple months.

What necro skills are fixed? I mean it's great syphon can hit the dragons now. If you would be able to actually use it properly without it spinning your char around wasting a gcd.
Or when blastbones Grey's out and becomes unusable until you double swap bars.
As fast as possible to fix these 2 skills that are broken the same way since the first week of PTS Elsweyr. And are still broken the same way like back then.
2 months and nothing happened. Even though other reps put those bugs forward. Same as many other players.
How can you not fix the 2 main skills of your NEW Class being bugged like this. For that amount of time. Still bugged on the latest iteration on the PTS.

MA weapons being useless doesn't mean to make it so every single class should use them. As the only mandatory option.

Maybe it will change 3 months down the line. But many will not wait that long.
Just thinking of having to use FLURRY because zos can't be bothered to make my class skills just working properly makes me wanna set the game aside.

What makes it worse, not a single time was there a green post acknowledging the bugs on those 2 skills. Even though they had many opportunities in many threads here on the forums since elsweyr hit pts.

Your posts come across like you somewhat fanboi zos in every decision they take. If that is not the case, pardon me.

I don't mind change. But if they can't be bothered to actually fix things before they do so, that is ridiculous.

Moloch1514

PvE Pet Sorc Feedback: Why are you making my character weaker and weaker every few months? It is not fun or encouraging. The devs and reps need to remember us scrubs who (were) happy pushing 40K self buffed on a dummy, but now are back to where we were post Morrowind. Why have I even bothered trying to get better when I get taken down a peg or two every quarter just to keep 1% of the community in check?

Discouraging average players seems like a poor strategy, and is even more frustrating when reading comments from PvP folks that support theory that PvP balance is why my PvE build is weaker now.

Vahrokh

Moloch1514 wrote: »

PvE Pet Sorc Feedback: Why are you making my character weaker and weaker every few months? It is not fun or encouraging. The devs and reps need to remember us scrubs who (were) happy pushing 40K self buffed on a dummy, but now are back to where we were post Morrowind. Why have I even bothered trying to get better when I get taken down a peg or two every quarter just to keep 1% of the community in check?

Discouraging average players seems like a poor strategy, and is even more frustrating when reading comments from PvP folks that support theory that PvP balance is why my PvE build is weaker now.

Do like I do: when they push these dumb nerfs I quit for a couple of months until they wake up and fix us back again.
Bleeding them money off helps clearing their mind from PvP alchool vapors.

MartiniDaniels

Moloch1514 wrote: »

PvE Pet Sorc Feedback: Why are you making my character weaker and weaker every few months? It is not fun or encouraging. The devs and reps need to remember us scrubs who (were) happy pushing 40K self buffed on a dummy, but now are back to where we were post Morrowind. Why have I even bothered trying to get better when I get taken down a peg or two every quarter just to keep 1% of the community in check?

Discouraging average players seems like a poor strategy, and is even more frustrating when reading comments from PvP folks that support theory that PvP balance is why my PvE build is weaker now.

What? Sorc was buffed several patches in a row, especially that deteriorating 10% of damage bonus was huge. Pets run amok from winter in all game modes. Sorc is best (at dummy) magicka dps in Eslweyr. Magsorc is best class in PVP. How you was nerfed plz tell me. In U23, yes sorc's abilities are nerfed, but all other magicka classes are nerfed too.

Moloch1514

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

PvE Pet Sorc Feedback: Why are you making my character weaker and weaker every few months? It is not fun or encouraging. The devs and reps need to remember us scrubs who (were) happy pushing 40K self buffed on a dummy, but now are back to where we were post Morrowind. Why have I even bothered trying to get better when I get taken down a peg or two every quarter just to keep 1% of the community in check?

Discouraging average players seems like a poor strategy, and is even more frustrating when reading comments from PvP folks that support theory that PvP balance is why my PvE build is weaker now.

What? Sorc was buffed several patches in a row, especially that deteriorating 10% of damage bonus was huge. Pets run amok from winter in all game modes. Sorc is best (at dummy) magicka dps in Eslweyr. Magsorc is best class in PVP. How you was nerfed plz tell me. In U23, yes sorc's abilities are nerfed, but all other magicka classes are nerfed too.

Morrowind nerfs......Shield nerf in Murkmire...... Daedric Prey reduced damage 15% in Elsweyr, 69% damage reduction to Twilight Matriarch this patch (plus overall nerf to Blockade/Liquid Lightning and Clench no longer a DOT)

MartiniDaniels

Moloch1514 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

PvE Pet Sorc Feedback: Why are you making my character weaker and weaker every few months? It is not fun or encouraging. The devs and reps need to remember us scrubs who (were) happy pushing 40K self buffed on a dummy, but now are back to where we were post Morrowind. Why have I even bothered trying to get better when I get taken down a peg or two every quarter just to keep 1% of the community in check?

Discouraging average players seems like a poor strategy, and is even more frustrating when reading comments from PvP folks that support theory that PvP balance is why my PvE build is weaker now.

What? Sorc was buffed several patches in a row, especially that deteriorating 10% of damage bonus was huge. Pets run amok from winter in all game modes. Sorc is best (at dummy) magicka dps in Eslweyr. Magsorc is best class in PVP. How you was nerfed plz tell me. In U23, yes sorc's abilities are nerfed, but all other magicka classes are nerfed too.

Morrowind nerfs......Shield nerf in Murkmire...... Daedric Prey reduced damage 15% in Elsweyr, 69% damage reduction to Twilight Matriarch this patch (plus overall nerf to Blockade/Liquid Lightning and Clench no longer a DOT)

Morrowind nerfs - all classes nerfed, this is global change
Shield nerfs - all classes nerfed, this is global change
Daedric prey - yes it was slightly nerfed, but there was buff to lightning flood and frags to compensate
U23 - yes, magsorc is nerfed, but all other magclasses too.

And with this nerfs you are forgetting about all those incredible buffs which were raining on sorc after shield nerf.

Magsorc is clearly OP in Elsweyr, and especially Matriarch. Bird is simply broken on live, no ability should have so much power in it. Double bar.. I bet bound armor is still slotted so it's not question of bar space.

This bar composition for BiS magdps is simply laughable:


And now compare it to magblade, which is way more difficult to play and which have notably less dps in Elsweyr:

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

Please add minor force to the updated dot version of the fire rune to make it more in line with rearming trap.

As it stands, magicka users are generally using a stamina dps ability to grant them this debuff in PVE situations as channeled acceleration has a cast time, and gives no damage benefit.

Trap for trap, it just makes sense.

Masel

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Nyqwont wrote: »

ZOS - here's your tl;dl player feedback:
your 'changes' (won't use the n word) make no sense, frustrate most players and generally decrease player enjoyment. They make the game worse.

And were do you get that from? I have heard a lot of positive responses as well, the complaints are just (as usual) louder and more vocal, but not more frequent based on what I observed.

Only 1 build for stamina on the top end. Running flurry.. With rest dots. Most non class. This is as far away from fun as it gets.
Example necro. Instead of zos fixing the skills on it(blastbones/syphon), they force people to go away from class main skills into weapon etc skills.That is where I and alot of player have issues with.

It appears they can't be bothered to actually fix class skills. So they push you into weapon skills. Where everyone runs the exact same build on every class(Rapid Strikes)
I have a huge issue with that. They didn't bother to fix blastbones and syphon since elsweyr PTS. And it is still bugged in the same way as back then.

I get it, you enjoy the game and you are a rep. But how can you be a fan of this? They make the game dull and bland. Instead of fixing what was broken.

I never voiced my opinion anywhere, and me bring a rep has nothing to do with this, so stop trying to use it against me. It does not affect the feedback I pass on in any shape or form. Have I said I like that weapon skills are better than class skills right now?

I'm very much aware of the stale situation. But let me ask one question: what is this ability audit for? It is supposed to bring the numbers of abilities more in line before the classes are tackled individually so there is a more consistent foundation. They applied standards to abilities, and it happened to make weapon abilities better than class abilities for now, and for now only.

You can very justifiably be unsatisfied now, but this isnt a class balance patch, it is a number balancing patch before classes are tackled. This has been voiced by zos before, but people seem to forget that.

Also, in a situation where only single target damage matters you might be right that there are no options because there always is one best option. In sunspire, I (and as far as I see it others do too) happen to use very different gear setups depending on the fight and if you watch Hodors Godslayer, they do so too. Sure on a dummy you have only one setup, but in a trial that isnt filled with pure parse bosses you dont.

Am I happy that raids will still stack necros cause other classes have nothing comparable to bring to the table? No. But I still have hope that once the ability audit is done, we might have a better situation than we ever did because classes will have an identity they didnt have in a long time.

Also, let me put it this way: people complained about vma weapons being useless for a long time. Now they are used, and people complain that they "have to" put it on every build even though the difference between then and other options is marginally big. In a game where dps is the main goal for any encounter and by now, and where defense and survivability isnt important enough, the option that provides the highest dps will always be preferred.

And to the class ability fix thing: they are working on these things as fast as possible. Also, the patch notes included various fixes for class abilities, necro as well, are you ignoring those? Do I think the fixes should come faster? Yes, but they have a limited team number working on them. And you cant blame to combat team or the software engineers for that stuff, the size of divisions within the company is decided on a much higher leve by budgeting plans.

Last but not least, saying a sentence like "they cant be bothered to fix class skills, so they push you into weapon skills" is filled with implicit assumptions that you cannot verify. You dont know what their intentions are even though they have voiced them on stages of conventions and on these very forums right here in the last couple months.

What necro skills are fixed? I mean it's great syphon can hit the dragons now. If you would be able to actually use it properly without it spinning your char around wasting a gcd.
Or when blastbones Grey's out and becomes unusable until you double swap bars.
As fast as possible to fix these 2 skills that are broken the same way since the first week of PTS Elsweyr. And are still broken the same way like back then.
2 months and nothing happened. Even though other reps put those bugs forward. Same as many other players.
How can you not make the 2 main skills of your NEW Class being bugged like this. For that amount of time. Still bugged on the latest iteration on the PTS.

MA weapons being useless doesn't mean to make it so every single class should use them. As the only mandatory option.

Maybe it will change 3 months down the line. But many will not wait that long.
Just thinking of having to use FLURRY because zos can't be bothered to make my class skills just working properly makes me wanna set the game aside.

What makes it worse, not a single time was there a green post acknowledging the bugs on those 2 skills. Even though they had many opportunities in many threads here on the forums since elsweyr hit pts.

Your posts come across like you somewhat fanboi zos in every decision they take. If that is not the case, pardon me.

I don't mind change. But if they can't be bothered to actually fix things before they do so, that is ridiculous.

My main goal when I joined the program was to achieve a good class balance where as many specs as possible would be desirable to bring into a raid, or any type of group play. Also I wanted classes to feel unique and interesting to play, as in having an identity. When I saw the u23 notes for the first time a month ago, I actually was so frustrated that i thought about leaving the program (and threatened to do so) because after a year, we still haven't achieved anything and it was visible from looking at the notes alone that they would lead to this very situation.

Raids will still stack necros for the colossus debuff, while all other essential buffs and debuffs are shifted to healers and tanks. When they proposed the nb changes to us back in u22, we told them not to change NB, but to change and improve other classes, yet they still did it, which made me (and others as well) quite angry. So i made a post about it to the devs, and they convinced me that they have goals that try to achieve a better balance after the audit is done.

I'm not a fanboy whatsoever. If that's how a fanboy behaves, then we must have a different definition of what a fanboy actually is.

Saril_Durzam

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

PvE Pet Sorc Feedback: Why are you making my character weaker and weaker every few months? It is not fun or encouraging. The devs and reps need to remember us scrubs who (were) happy pushing 40K self buffed on a dummy, but now are back to where we were post Morrowind. Why have I even bothered trying to get better when I get taken down a peg or two every quarter just to keep 1% of the community in check?

Discouraging average players seems like a poor strategy, and is even more frustrating when reading comments from PvP folks that support theory that PvP balance is why my PvE build is weaker now.

What? Sorc was buffed several patches in a row, especially that deteriorating 10% of damage bonus was huge. Pets run amok from winter in all game modes. Sorc is best (at dummy) magicka dps in Eslweyr. Magsorc is best class in PVP. How you was nerfed plz tell me. In U23, yes sorc's abilities are nerfed, but all other magicka classes are nerfed too.

Morrowind nerfs......Shield nerf in Murkmire...... Daedric Prey reduced damage 15% in Elsweyr, 69% damage reduction to Twilight Matriarch this patch (plus overall nerf to Blockade/Liquid Lightning and Clench no longer a DOT)

Morrowind nerfs - all classes nerfed, this is global change
Shield nerfs - all classes nerfed, this is global change
Daedric prey - yes it was slightly nerfed, but there was buff to lightning flood and frags to compensate
U23 - yes, magsorc is nerfed, but all other magclasses too.

And with this nerfs you are forgetting about all those incredible buffs which were raining on sorc after shield nerf.

Magsorc is clearly OP in Elsweyr, and especially Matriarch. Bird is simply broken on live, no ability should have so much power in it. Double bar.. I bet bound armor is still slotted so it's not question of bar space.

This bar composition for BiS magdps is simply laughable:


And now compare it to magblade, which is way more difficult to play and which have notably less dps in Elsweyr:

I think the issues is that, while shields affect everyone, it´s the sorcs thing (the same way Cloak is for NBs), they have more than anyone. The other sorc thing is/was pets and they have been nerfed so bad that they wont be playable. Meaning many sorcs players would make efforts to gold certain items/sets, will see now them wasted. Thats life, i guess.

Petsorcs dont use frags so the daedric prey nerf was a hit bigger than lightning flood buff.

U23 nerfs other magclasses, true, but magsorcs more than anyone, as it takes everything which made magsorcs competitive: AOE dots, shields and pets.I mean, everything. 80% of the petsorc skills used were nerfed. I understand that if you play magblade you will feel you´re also nerfed (and is true) but you cannot imagine the severity of these nerfs for sorc. Futhermore, the niche of nigthblade is stamina, has the most morphs, and the class stays strong, as any stamina. I understand that´s not interesting for a magblade, though. Heard stamsorcs do well in DPS parses, it also doesnt feed me up.

After U23 atm parses go for magcro then magplar then magsorc on DPS. So magsorcs are behind every class in the game but magblade, magden? And with worse selfhealing and survability than these two; so we could say that probably is becoming the worse class in the game, maybe tied with these two we talked earlier.

xMovingTarget

Masel wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Nyqwont wrote: »

ZOS - here's your tl;dl player feedback:
your 'changes' (won't use the n word) make no sense, frustrate most players and generally decrease player enjoyment. They make the game worse.

And were do you get that from? I have heard a lot of positive responses as well, the complaints are just (as usual) louder and more vocal, but not more frequent based on what I observed.

Only 1 build for stamina on the top end. Running flurry.. With rest dots. Most non class. This is as far away from fun as it gets.
Example necro. Instead of zos fixing the skills on it(blastbones/syphon), they force people to go away from class main skills into weapon etc skills.That is where I and alot of player have issues with.

It appears they can't be bothered to actually fix class skills. So they push you into weapon skills. Where everyone runs the exact same build on every class(Rapid Strikes)
I have a huge issue with that. They didn't bother to fix blastbones and syphon since elsweyr PTS. And it is still bugged in the same way as back then.

I get it, you enjoy the game and you are a rep. But how can you be a fan of this? They make the game dull and bland. Instead of fixing what was broken.

I never voiced my opinion anywhere, and me bring a rep has nothing to do with this, so stop trying to use it against me. It does not affect the feedback I pass on in any shape or form. Have I said I like that weapon skills are better than class skills right now?

I'm very much aware of the stale situation. But let me ask one question: what is this ability audit for? It is supposed to bring the numbers of abilities more in line before the classes are tackled individually so there is a more consistent foundation. They applied standards to abilities, and it happened to make weapon abilities better than class abilities for now, and for now only.

You can very justifiably be unsatisfied now, but this isnt a class balance patch, it is a number balancing patch before classes are tackled. This has been voiced by zos before, but people seem to forget that.

Also, in a situation where only single target damage matters you might be right that there are no options because there always is one best option. In sunspire, I (and as far as I see it others do too) happen to use very different gear setups depending on the fight and if you watch Hodors Godslayer, they do so too. Sure on a dummy you have only one setup, but in a trial that isnt filled with pure parse bosses you dont.

Am I happy that raids will still stack necros cause other classes have nothing comparable to bring to the table? No. But I still have hope that once the ability audit is done, we might have a better situation than we ever did because classes will have an identity they didnt have in a long time.

Also, let me put it this way: people complained about vma weapons being useless for a long time. Now they are used, and people complain that they "have to" put it on every build even though the difference between then and other options is marginally big. In a game where dps is the main goal for any encounter and by now, and where defense and survivability isnt important enough, the option that provides the highest dps will always be preferred.

And to the class ability fix thing: they are working on these things as fast as possible. Also, the patch notes included various fixes for class abilities, necro as well, are you ignoring those? Do I think the fixes should come faster? Yes, but they have a limited team number working on them. And you cant blame to combat team or the software engineers for that stuff, the size of divisions within the company is decided on a much higher leve by budgeting plans.

Last but not least, saying a sentence like "they cant be bothered to fix class skills, so they push you into weapon skills" is filled with implicit assumptions that you cannot verify. You dont know what their intentions are even though they have voiced them on stages of conventions and on these very forums right here in the last couple months.

What necro skills are fixed? I mean it's great syphon can hit the dragons now. If you would be able to actually use it properly without it spinning your char around wasting a gcd.
Or when blastbones Grey's out and becomes unusable until you double swap bars.
As fast as possible to fix these 2 skills that are broken the same way since the first week of PTS Elsweyr. And are still broken the same way like back then.
2 months and nothing happened. Even though other reps put those bugs forward. Same as many other players.
How can you not make the 2 main skills of your NEW Class being bugged like this. For that amount of time. Still bugged on the latest iteration on the PTS.

MA weapons being useless doesn't mean to make it so every single class should use them. As the only mandatory option.

Maybe it will change 3 months down the line. But many will not wait that long.
Just thinking of having to use FLURRY because zos can't be bothered to make my class skills just working properly makes me wanna set the game aside.

What makes it worse, not a single time was there a green post acknowledging the bugs on those 2 skills. Even though they had many opportunities in many threads here on the forums since elsweyr hit pts.

Your posts come across like you somewhat fanboi zos in every decision they take. If that is not the case, pardon me.

I don't mind change. But if they can't be bothered to actually fix things before they do so, that is ridiculous.

My main goal when I joined the program was to achieve a good class balance where as many specs as possible would be desirable to bring into a raid, or any type of group play. Also I wanted classes to feel unique and interesting to play, as in having an identity. When I saw the u23 notes for the first time a month ago, I actually was so frustrated that i thought about leaving the program (and threatened to do so) because after a year, we still haven't achieved anything and it was visible from looking at the notes alone that they would lead to this very situation.

Raids will still stack necros for the colossus debuff, while all other essential buffs and debuffs are shifted to healers and tanks. When they proposed the nb changes to us back in u22, we told them not to change NB, but to change and improve other classes, yet they still did it, which made me (and others as well) quite angry. So i made a post about it to the devs, and they convinced me that they have goals that try to achieve a better balance after the audit is done.

I'm not a fanboy whatsoever. If that's how a fanboy behaves, then we must have a different definition of what a fanboy actually is.

Okay, I respect that!

Well, what we will get seems to be a boring game then for a while. It´s too extreme. While key issues intrduced with Elsweyr still have not been tackled.
What grinds my gears the most about this patch, you have no real choice for anything. Dont get me wrong, I am no casual player. I play what is most efficient at the time. But I cant get myself to use Rapidstrikes just like any other stamDD. And the only reason I have to, is because the main skills on my class wont get fixed. If they were, Flurry would not be a thing.
I hate Flurry.

Czekoludek

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

I understand that if you play magblade you will feel you´re also nerfed (and is true) but you cannot imagine the severity of these nerfs for sorc.

Believe me, magblades are probably the ones that can imagine the severity of these nerfs the best as we were nerfed couple patches from best DPS to the trash. Welcome to the trash club, all hail our Necro overlords

MartiniDaniels

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Moloch1514 wrote: »

PvE Pet Sorc Feedback: Why are you making my character weaker and weaker every few months? It is not fun or encouraging. The devs and reps need to remember us scrubs who (were) happy pushing 40K self buffed on a dummy, but now are back to where we were post Morrowind. Why have I even bothered trying to get better when I get taken down a peg or two every quarter just to keep 1% of the community in check?

Discouraging average players seems like a poor strategy, and is even more frustrating when reading comments from PvP folks that support theory that PvP balance is why my PvE build is weaker now.

What? Sorc was buffed several patches in a row, especially that deteriorating 10% of damage bonus was huge. Pets run amok from winter in all game modes. Sorc is best (at dummy) magicka dps in Eslweyr. Magsorc is best class in PVP. How you was nerfed plz tell me. In U23, yes sorc's abilities are nerfed, but all other magicka classes are nerfed too.

Morrowind nerfs......Shield nerf in Murkmire...... Daedric Prey reduced damage 15% in Elsweyr, 69% damage reduction to Twilight Matriarch this patch (plus overall nerf to Blockade/Liquid Lightning and Clench no longer a DOT)

Morrowind nerfs - all classes nerfed, this is global change
Shield nerfs - all classes nerfed, this is global change
Daedric prey - yes it was slightly nerfed, but there was buff to lightning flood and frags to compensate
U23 - yes, magsorc is nerfed, but all other magclasses too.

And with this nerfs you are forgetting about all those incredible buffs which were raining on sorc after shield nerf.

Magsorc is clearly OP in Elsweyr, and especially Matriarch. Bird is simply broken on live, no ability should have so much power in it. Double bar.. I bet bound armor is still slotted so it's not question of bar space.

This bar composition for BiS magdps is simply laughable:


And now compare it to magblade, which is way more difficult to play and which have notably less dps in Elsweyr:

I think the issues is that, while shields affect everyone, it´s the sorcs thing (the same way Cloak is for NBs), they have more than anyone. The other sorc thing is/was pets and they have been nerfed so bad that they wont be playable. Meaning many sorcs players would make efforts to gold certain items/sets, will see now them wasted. Thats life, i guess.

Petsorcs dont use frags so the daedric prey nerf was a hit bigger than lightning flood buff.

U23 nerfs other magclasses, true, but magsorcs more than anyone, as it takes everything which made magsorcs competitive: AOE dots, shields and pets.I mean, everything. 80% of the petsorc skills used were nerfed. I understand that if you play magblade you will feel you´re also nerfed (and is true) but you cannot imagine the severity of these nerfs for sorc. Futhermore, the niche of nigthblade is stamina, has the most morphs, and the class stays strong, as any stamina. I understand that´s not interesting for a magblade, though. Heard stamsorcs do well in DPS parses, it also doesnt feed me up.

After U23 atm parses go for magcro then magplar then magsorc on DPS. So magsorcs are behind every class in the game but magblade, magden? And with worse selfhealing and survability than these two; so we could say that probably is becoming the worse class in the game, maybe tied with these two we talked earlier.

MagDK is nerfed too.. and magplar is great, but he is mostly great in close range. In true ranged role dps will be much lower. Still best synergy for group from shards and fast resurrection speed makes them best choice imo.
Overall, I think all magicka dps require resource wide buff.. not a buffs of single abilities, but something global.

I was building couple of hybrids for PVP and got such idea for mage guild skill line, which will help magdps in PVP too:
- move cost reduction to persuasion passive similar to fighter guilds
- introduce new passive, which increases both max magicka and max stamina, depending of difference between them. Works only if max magicka equal to or higher then max stamina. Provides +20% to both resources if they are equal and decreases with grow of magicka with mininum 5% increase in cases of 40k magicka/10k stamina.

Lord_Eomer

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Degeneration is my favourite skill now.
Unstable blockade feels nice and looks nice
Eruption feels weak for the cost
Barbed trap feels super nice but would be nice to have a mag alternative *cough* fire rune *cough*
Combustion makes my sustain much easier with less spell sym casts aka allowing me to actually play

High elf Spell Recharge feels useless except niche situations

MagDK still feels flat without an execute in execute but bloodthirsty does make up a small bit of it

Double bloody mara hits PvE pretty hard, is there a plan for gold food that does the same buff as live because bright-throat in PvE is silly.

Just look at Light Attack DPS, I feel bad how ZOS made class skills combat clunky comparing Light Attack meta in PVE

None Elder Scroll franchise or even any other MMORPG have light attack doing such huge damage.

Its so called Easy Meta spoiled PVE DPS

John_Falstaff

I hope people who were bemoaning bow backbar meta and jumping of joy to the thought of vMA bow nerfed are happy now. Now we have uniform meta across whole stamina, with even fewer spots for class skills and fewer choices of weapons. Hated vMA bow as only BiS? Enjoy your mandatory Master bow and vMA DW. Hated Hail/PI/Caltrops uniformity? This is your life now whichever class you choose: Flurry, Rending, Flurry, Soul Trap, Flurry...

Ozby

Well if these changes go through I wont be playing my sorc anymore, no reliable heal or shield and healers nerfed as well so stuff that. Don't really like necro thus far tbh so wont be playing that either. I certainly don't pull 50k on my pet sorc and I dont really PVP either, so I guess my sorc will do even less now so wont be viable for our progression team anymore. I main healer on warden , Templar and Necro currently and dable in tanking so I guess Ill be pushed into these roles now and with the nerf to the healing springs things are going to be really tough now for group healing so Ill have to see what happens there now. I am looking forward to week 3 patch notes however to see what changes are made and to see if ZOS listened to the community and make some good adjustments to help end game raider groups.

hackdrag0n

As someone who was once a magblade main I can sympathise with sorc players. It's no fun when they gut your favourite class.