PTS Update 23 - Feedback Thread for PvE DPS

Jodynn

Degeneration is my favourite skill now.
Unstable blockade feels nice and looks nice
Eruption feels weak for the cost
Barbed trap feels super nice but would be nice to have a mag alternative *cough* fire rune *cough*
Combustion makes my sustain much easier with less spell sym casts aka allowing me to actually play

High elf Spell Recharge feels useless except niche situations

MagDK still feels flat without an execute in execute but bloodthirsty does make up a small bit of it

Double bloody mara hits PvE pretty hard, is there a plan for gold food that does the same buff as live because bright-throat in PvE is silly.

Carbonised

Every patch it's more homogenization of classes and specs. ZOS obviously can't balance numbers when skills differ in nature, so they've opted for the "solution" of simply making class skills copies of one another, completely disregarding additional effects, passives proc'ed and every other factor, as well as watering down class defining skills continually, until they're useless and abandoned.

So, in the name of homogenization, there is also less and less justification in the continual forcing of magDK dds into the melee role. If every mag dd is going to be a copy of one another (I am really looking forward to having nothing but entropy, soul trap and other generic non-class skills on my meta bar /s ), then it makes no sense why magdk of all the mag specs is the one forced into melee range, with all the drawbacks that entails.
I'm fine with homogenization and losing all class identity, in the same stroke you can make Embers, Engulfing and Whip have a 28 m range, like all other ranged magicka class dots and spamables of the other classes.
In the same vein, there is no homogenization as long as magdk is the only class and spec without access to an execute, neither in their class skills, other skill lines, or even passives. So I expect to have one of the now useless dk skills turned into an execute. Why not use Eruption for that, it had like 15 minutes of viability, from the buff just 1 patch ago, until the imminent nerf with the next patch, where it will most certainly be left in the trash in favor of some generic, overbuffed no-class dot like soul trap (I'm still lol'ing over soul trap being BIS for the next meta, utterly hillarious).

Oh, and since Entropy will most likely also be meta in the next patch, could you at least do us the favor of changing the god-awful glowing spaghetti line visual of this skill into something that actually is bearable to look at.

Cheers.

DeathStalker

The cost of abilities needs to be lowered back to wear it was. A lot of classes like Necro were already having trouble with sustain and now it's much worse.

Jodynn

Carbonised wrote: »

Every patch it's more homogenization of classes and specs. ZOS obviously can't balance numbers when skills differ in nature, so they've opted for the "solution" of simply making class skills copies of one another, completely disregarding additional effects, passives proc'ed and every other factor, as well as watering down class defining skills continually, until they're useless and abandoned.

So, in the name of homogenization, there is also less and less justification in the continual forcing of magDK dds into the melee role. If every mag dd is going to be a copy of one another (I am really looking forward to having nothing but entropy, soul trap and other generic non-class skills on my meta bar /s ), then it makes no sense why magdk of all the mag specs is the one forced into melee range, with all the drawbacks that entails.
I'm fine with homogenization and losing all class identity, in the same stroke you can make Embers, Engulfing and Whip have a 28 m range, like all other ranged magicka class dots and spamables of the other classes.
In the same vein, there is no homogenization as long as magdk is the only class and spec without access to an execute, neither in their class skills, other skill lines, or even passives. So I expect to have one of the now useless dk skills turned into an execute. Why not use Eruption for that, it had like 15 minutes of viability, from the buff just 1 patch ago, until the imminent nerf with the next patch, where it will most certainly be left in the trash in favor of some generic, overbuffed no-class dot like soul trap (I'm still lol'ing over soul trap being BIS for the next meta, utterly hillarious).

Oh, and since Entropy will most likely also be meta in the next patch, could you at least do us the favor of changing the god-awful glowing spaghetti line visual of this skill into something that actually is bearable to look at.

Cheers.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484608/magdk-execute-in-pve-only#latest

Or stonefist because that is an incredibly useless skill in pve

FrancisCrawford

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Not sure if this is the proper feedback thread, but I wanted to get more exposure on this issue:

The Rapid Maneuver changes NEED to be reversed ASAP. Using Rapids in PvE to give oneself the Major Expedition buff to navigate the overworld or delves on foot faster was extremely useful as a tool. It was balanced because you couldn't attack with it active or you'd lose the buff. People use this skill extensively in PvE for questing and you're not giving us another tool to compensate for it. Rapids is not unbalanced in PvP so there's no reason to remove because of that, either. Please revert this change.

Agree. It's awful from a QoL standpoint.

FrancisCrawford

One of the two morphs of Soul Trap dominates the other for PvE endgame. That's because the resource return option is completely irrelevant in the case of boss(es)-only or boss(es)-plus-tough-adds fights, and rather irrelevant in trash fights because people rarely have sustain problems in those. And in boss-plus-trash-adds fights, the two morphs are pretty well balanced with each other.

It also isn't good for leveling as soon as you get to zones where enemies are found in groups of 3, which happens early in the game.

MartiniDaniels

Releasing such set as Lokke was a huge mistake and it will be awful if all stamina will pay price for it now by resource wide nerfs. Only PVP balance protects us from it. I guess limiting orbs to 1 was attempt to reduce Lokke effectiveness but tbh, there are ton of other sources for synergies and now orbs will be even more powerful in empowering Lokke. So until new trial with magicka Lokke will be released, magicka will be 1 step behind.

pwidsten

Soul Trap is super broken when paired with Oblivion's Foe. I made the most realistic version of that I could on PTS and it looks like this. Even with nothing more than Hunding's paired with it, blue jewelry and purple Maelstrom weapons and it still does 14-19k a tick. I'm very certain that 50k tooltips are real after doing this.

https://youtu.be/MFlskTuw0XA

Jodynn

pwidsten wrote: »

Soul Trap is super broken when paired with Oblivion's Foe. I made the most realistic version of that I could on PTS and it looks like this. Even with nothing more than Hunding's paired with it, blue jewelry and purple Maelstrom weapons and it still does 14-19k a tick. I'm very certain that 50k tooltips are real after doing this.

https://youtu.be/MFlskTuw0XA

Testing on precursor doesn't really.. say much

Rerum

Hello.
I see no reason in this huge nerf of class dots and such huge buff of common skilline's dot. For mag chars with current changes no point to lvl class dots, just pick up destructive touch, soul trap, entropy and you are fine. Basically mag chars become like stam chars whos were forced to use caltrops/hail and nothing more.
So any of devs have any good arguments and reasons to make all mag classes the same without real difference? I'm that kind of people that stick to gameplay mostly and less to meta(but still around) and i want to play magdk/magsorc and etc and not magicka char 1/2/3.
What i see from pts it's that meta for mag classes going to be stacking entropy+touch+soul trap+aoes(no spammable) and new set that gives you dmg per dot. Class difference just killed. It's like if you will eat different food but every of this food will have same taste.

Narvuntien

Hmmm I think that is a good point... Perhaps they should designate all class DoTs as rule-breakers... They need to be bigger damage or more efficient or have some effect that is greater than the extra mag regen you get from the mage guild passives.

Perhaps they should redo the mage guild passives?

I think the standardisation of the skills is a good first step for a redesign but it really has to only be the first step before reintroducing the flavour again.

eso_lytw8

Rerum wrote: »

Hello.
I see no reason in this huge nerf of class dots and such huge buff of common skilline's dot. For mag chars with current changes no point to lvl class dots, just pick up destructive touch, soul trap, entropy and you are fine. Basically mag chars become like stam chars whos were forced to use caltrops/hail and nothing more.
So any of devs have any good arguments and reasons to make all mag classes the same without real difference? I'm that kind of people that stick to gameplay mostly and less to meta(but still around) and i want to play magdk/magsorc and etc and not magicka char 1/2/3.
What i see from pts it's that meta for mag classes going to be stacking entropy+touch+soul trap+aoes(no spammable) and new set that gives you dmg per dot. Class difference just killed. It's like if you will eat different food but every of this food will have same taste.

This is how you reach balance in PVP, make the non class skills the ones people use, remove the differences in the class skills then all you need to do is do the same to the passives which is coming next major update. Once the classes have nothing unique they will be balanced for PVP. You can't complain about another classes benefit if it doesn't exist. Taken to the extreme this will achieve perfect PVP balance, but at the loss of all class uniqueness.

Evito

Petsorc is not bad, this is virtually the same build that is top single target on live, I just replaced lightning flood with degeneration (Soul Trap does a bit more damage but this setup wasn't reliably sustainable without Degeneration).

The tormentor serves no purpose now. The Tormentor, Soul Trap, Flame Reach and Entropy all do pretty similar damage, but the tormentor takes up 2 ability slots, so why bother using it at all?

The scamp beats the tormentor for both aoe and single target, so it's just the superior pet now. I believe the tormentor either needs the nerfs scaled back a little, or the enrage ability needs to last for the entire duration of the fight, and not stop at 50% (which I think is a better solution as the pet would become more active).

reprosal

Evito wrote: »

Petsorc is not bad, this is virtually the same build that is top single target on live, I just replaced lightning flood with degeneration (Soul Trap does a bit more damage but this setup wasn't reliably sustainable without Degeneration).

The tormentor serves no purpose now. The Tormentor, Soul Trap, Flame Reach and Entropy all do pretty similar damage, but the tormentor takes up 2 ability slots, so why bother using it at all?

The scamp beats the tormentor for both aoe and single target, so it's just the superior pet now. I believe the tormentor either needs the nerfs scaled back a little, or the enrage ability needs to last for the entire duration of the fight, and not stop at 50% (which I think is a better solution as the pet would become more active).

What sets was this done with?

Evito

reprosal wrote: »

Evito wrote: »

Petsorc is not bad, this is virtually the same build that is top single target on live, I just replaced lightning flood with degeneration (Soul Trap does a bit more damage but this setup wasn't reliably sustainable without Degeneration).

The tormentor serves no purpose now. The Tormentor, Soul Trap, Flame Reach and Entropy all do pretty similar damage, but the tormentor takes up 2 ability slots, so why bother using it at all?

The scamp beats the tormentor for both aoe and single target, so it's just the superior pet now. I believe the tormentor either needs the nerfs scaled back a little, or the enrage ability needs to last for the entire duration of the fight, and not stop at 50% (which I think is a better solution as the pet would become more active).

What sets was this done with?

Siroria (single barred)/Mother's Sorrow/vMA staff/Zaan

John_Falstaff

I'm not sure yet how to feel about it, but now, thanks to Stampede, DW/2H can be a thing too since Stampede can proc back bar enchantment. In the light of that, I think it would be nice to extend Stampede duration (without buffing damage) to 10-12 seconds to bring it in line with other ground AoEs rotations would revolve around (Blockade, Hail).

And speaking of that, morphs of Deadly Cloak could use same treatment since it probably would serve the same purpose - though, because of nerfed enchantments, I doubt people will be running DW/DW setups.

tthhyyss

You obviously don't play your own game. So leave it allone and fix the buggs.... Put as much effort into fixing the 5 year old broke dungeon finder as into your nerfs for example...

Alienoutlaw

this is my effort to test Live vs PTS with a Mag pet Sorc, running Necro,Infal and Skoria both runs are identical builds
https://youtu.be/cJa_C6YH9uM

Jarrods32

Has anyone spent time parsing with new skills to post videos of so we can get better ideas of dps in update23...

Jodynn

There are a couple parses above you can view, videos I'm not sure, I can try making one for magDK sometime, never tried.

Far as I can tell, 88.8k is my current standing for magDK on iron atro.

Jarrods32

It's looking so far dps is comparable just all single target damage?

Alienoutlaw

DPS parse while useful does not really give an indication of resource management in a combat situation......Target dummies dont hit back

IonicKai

Jarrods32 wrote: »

It's looking so far dps is comparable just all single target damage?

Yeah add fights and heal checks on trials are I think the biggest concerns that people have. A lot of the game strategies and mechanics relied on inherent cleave and strong healing on demand.

Grandma

to all the people complaining about their dps drop; have you tried, i dunno, adapting to the change and using single target skills instead of the aoe ones they explicitly stated were being majorly nerfed? why would you use them knowing they all got cut by 33% or more and then complain that dps is lower? Like, yeah, the ocean's wet. use new buffed single target skills, entropy, clench, soul trap, etc.

Alienoutlaw

Grandma wrote: »

to all the people complaining about their dps drop; have you tried, i dunno, adapting to the change and using single target skills instead of the aoe ones they explicitly stated were being majorly nerfed? why would you use them knowing they all got cut by 33% or more and then complain that dps is lower? Like, yeah, the ocean's wet. use new buffed single target skills, entropy, clench, soul trap, etc.

i have not really noticed a drop in DPS but resources and sustain have been made much harder
as you can see in the video i posted

Jodynn

My sustain is better as magDK now, combustion and degeneration are very nice feeling.

The double bloody mara is a very annoying nerf for me... would be satisfied with a gold food replacement so it doesn't scale with set buffs.

I can't speak for other AoEs other than my own
- Eruption feels weak for the cost but still gets the job done
- Unstable wall of elements makes up for the nerf to blockade and eruption both so... it's about the same.
- Engulfing nerf isn't much different tbh, although I found it silly.

I haven't tested soul trap yet because I detest the skill, but 20% resource gain I imagine that's basically free resources in trash pulls... will update later.

Other than that the seething fury nerf is a bit more noticeable and makes for a bit of the issue with cleaving, 75 per stack is pretty low, 100 per stack would have been nice, 125 was a bit too much in pvp so I understand but I think they overshot.

SirAndy

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

pwidsten wrote: »

Soul Trap is super broken when paired with Oblivion's Foe. I made the most realistic version of that I could on PTS and it looks like this. Even with nothing more than Hunding's paired with it, blue jewelry and purple Maelstrom weapons and it still does 14-19k a tick. I'm very certain that 50k tooltips are real after doing this.
https://youtu.be/MFlskTuw0XA

Testing on precursor doesn't really.. say much

Not much, just the damage numbers for the individual ticks, which was the point of the video in the first place.

Jodynn

SirAndy wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

pwidsten wrote: »

Soul Trap is super broken when paired with Oblivion's Foe. I made the most realistic version of that I could on PTS and it looks like this. Even with nothing more than Hunding's paired with it, blue jewelry and purple Maelstrom weapons and it still does 14-19k a tick. I'm very certain that 50k tooltips are real after doing this.
https://youtu.be/MFlskTuw0XA

Testing on precursor doesn't really.. say much

Not much, just the damage numbers for the individual ticks, which was the point of the video in the first place.

If you don't consider pen or buffs or how it scales with actual variance of mechanics you will meet it doesn't do much just to show the ticks in an unrealistic environment, you need to get a reasonable sample size in a reasonable context.

How much damage are you losing because you are wearing oblivion's foe set, what are the numbers like without it on;
You need to compare in an actual parse or raid setting for it to be valid.

Dreyloch

Emkay333 wrote: »

Why did such skills like Degeneration and Soul Trap get such insane buffs to the point it'll be required to slot them? like roughly 24k dot over 12 seconds with major sorcery for 24 seconds plus the magic return on every light/heavy attack for degen? Then ive seen a rough 34k dot tool tip over 10 seconds for soul trap, with hp/stam/magic return as well?

If the aoe ground dot nerfs were due to pvp complaints, like nearly all nerfs in this game, why wasnt that added to battle spirit? Why should now every magic dps be homogenized to be forced to slot reach, soul trap, degeneration, inner light, comet, etc. One reason I made a magic dps was since it used more class abilities than stamina, since all stamina was forced to use trap/poison inject/caltrops/hail/rending slashes. Now most dps will just all be the same, forget class abilities right?

Also those enormous drops to pets on sorcerer? Im sure all of those complaints were for pvp. Why not just add a nerf to pets to BATTLE SPIRIT, as it was meant to be a de/buff for pvp.

Also considering pve balance, how was things like major vulnerability not nerfed at all? necromancer holds an unbelievable lead in damage over all other classes due to the power of that debuff.

I started out as maining stamina templar then sort of transitioned into magic templar dps, and I thoroughly enjoyed using nearly all class abilities, it felt like a unique and fun class to play. Now itll be the same as every other magic dps, being forced to run the now stupidly strong single target dots they made out of soul trap and degeneration to name a few.

Thank you for reading this rant. Not pleased with these changes, it just goes to show PvP > PvE was in mind while these notes were taken

Whoa whoa whoa whoa....hang on there chief. The one bar pet sorc build and w/e the WW build is that made vMA so easy for ppl is the cause of that. Don't even try to blame that one on PvP. ok..."maybe" some of the WW nerfs came from BG's, but it wasn't coming from cyrodiil. I can tell you that as someone who plays there pretty much daily. I have the Pack Leader on all my WW builds. Trust me, we aren't happy about it either!

Benemime

Crystal Blast, when will they realize that this move sucks?


Crystal Blast won't be worth using while having a cast time. point blank. This new buff doesn't matter.

Let it be a spammable instant like most of the spammables, nerf the damage or whatever, it's only worth if we can weave light attacks between each cast, we can't live without light attacks. and multi casting crystal blast won't allow us to weave light attacks, since the animation is "rigid", it's much better and faster when we multicast crystal blast than when we cast 1, stop, weave light attack, then begin to cast one again, the animation isn't quick so it feels like consecutevely casting crystal blast is a lot faster than cast a single crystal blast.