The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now available.
Maintenance for the week of August 19:
• ESO Website for maintenance – August 22, 7:00AM EDT (11:00 UTC)

PTS Update 23 - Feedback Thread for PvE DPS

ZOS_GinaBruno
ZOS_GinaBruno
Community Manager
This is the official feedback thread for PvE DPS changes. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.
Gina Bruno
Community Manager - The Elder Scrolls Online
Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | Facebook | Twitter
Staff Post
  • TheZachinator
    TheZachinator
    ✭✭✭
    OnThaLoose wrote: »
    I understand the idea of balancing around power creep, but you had most damage dealers around the same dps, give or take a few thousand dps. On PTS I just tested my magplar, and she lost 13k dps on a 6million dummy, 13000!!! From 51k to 38k. Same gear, same stats, everything the same. Thats a bit too much.

    Blazing spear nerfed by 42%?!?! Solar barrage by 33%?!?! and Wall of Elements by 33%?!? You have literally gutted Templars by 30-35~% DPS, so now we'll suck like we did for 2 years (until recently).

    The nerfs to Templars are too strong, aoe dots are all we have in our kit beyond vamp bane, so nerfing aoes that much kills us... I would suggest 20% to spears, 15% to barrage, and 15% to WoE.

    If you continue with this, no one will play templars or sorcs anymore (as dd's, and sorc healers are dead due to your other changes). Of course, I dont even know why I try, you only ever listen to the vocal minority of pvp'ers about this ***.

    Magsorcs lost like 10k so I feel ya man. :( Bow down to our magcro overlords I guess.

    EDIT: I want to confirm the loss is from my own and some friends' testing on Iron Atronach dummies and are in no way associated with the 10k loss shown by SirAndy.
    Edited by TheZachinator on July 9, 2019 12:33AM
    PC/NA

    Magsorc Immortal Redeemer & Gryphon Heart
  • SidraWillowsky
    SidraWillowsky
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SirAndy wrote: »
    *snip*

    This is a terrible and completely invalid way of comparing DPS... you need to do a dummy parse since there are so many inconsistencies here (ie, your damage on the boss was 15k and 12k, respectively... the rest is random adds). I'm not saying there's no decrease, just that there's way too much potential for variation here to be able to draw a valid conclusion based on a comparison parse of n=1.
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    I was hoping balance b/w stam and magicka would be closer this patch, but it instead went from jumping across a small creek to trying to jump across the Grand Canyon (in general when comparing a couple stam classes to to all mag except magcro). And Necromancers are the only viable looking class right now
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Honestly, I don't know how to improve it either. ZOS would either have to de-nerf all the skills they just nerfed or vastly increase the dps of the ST dots, which would completely unbalance PvP. Right now mag is essentially broken. Part of that is due to sets like Perfected Relequen, which is 10k free dps for stam atm. Mag dps is also optimal right now, vs. in most fights Zaan is unusable (it won't even proc on dragons), so the mag dps divide will only INCREASE since Zaan is unusable and stam is free to use velidreth and the new monster set.
  • Alienoutlaw
    Alienoutlaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    to be honest from that parse the build doesnt look that good, why use infernal gardian over skoria or illambris? why the mystic orbs, that should be at least 50k on live, as far as i can see there is only a realistic drop of 5k possibly 6k, and until we get more parses to confirm a 10k loss i will hold judgement (i will be testing my pet sorc through fungal grotto solo on live and PTS tomorrow and post the videos of both runs
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    So, in short, mag sets are essentially just far worse than stam sets (this has been a problem since Summerset and was exacerbated in Elswery), mag is essentially offering 0 group utility now since conduits and spear shards are potentially dropping from rotations in favor of single target dots (they might stay, but they are now lowest priority for dps) EDIT: ritual of retribution is a decent heal, but nothing compared to the scope of echoing vigor (althought it does do damage to be fair) END, mag has become FAR more complex with extremely dynamic rotations trying to maintain a multitude of dots, and Light Attacks are facing a disparity with CP builds and trial mechanics.

    What I mean here is that LAs are the bread and butter of magicka rotations and dps. However, in trials, you can't just sit there and parse and while stam/magicka dots tick, it's very hard to continuously light attack (not to mention maintain siroria stacks or other mag sets that are difficult to use for less benefit than relequen) and MAXIMIZE your LA damage (therefore you're dropping quite a bit of dmg relative to stam for every missed LA and dots will behave similar between the two). Additionally, with a more dot centric build now, we have to move CP away from LA damage and into dot damage (Master at arms/staff expert into thaum), which further just creates an awkward limbo.
    Edited by wills43b14_ESO on July 9, 2019 12:58AM
  • SidraWillowsky
    SidraWillowsky
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SirAndy wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    *snip*
    This is a terrible and completely invalid way of comparing DPS... you need to do a dummy parse since there are so many inconsistencies here (ie, your damage on the boss was 15k and 12k, respectively... the rest is random adds). I'm not saying there's no decrease, just that there's way too much potential for variation here to be able to draw a valid conclusion based on a comparison parse of n=1.

    I'm terribly sorry that my terribly quick way of doing a terribly misguided test did such terrible things to you. Just terrible ...
    huh.gif

    PS: Also, yes, i can read numbers, but thank you nonetheless!

    Sorry, my original post came off as super aggro... I'm exhausted and hadn't eaten all day, so I shouldn't have replied like that. My apologies.

    I need to download the PTS environment tonight and while I wait I'm very anxious about the DPS changes, so I panicked reading that post. I really hope it's not as bad as it seems but I feel a bit delusional as I repeat that mantra in my head.

    The one (hopefully constructive) thing that I WILL say is that after Elsweyr went live with so many changes to stamblades (my main), I went off the rails for a while and ended up completely psyching myself out when parsing. Pre-Els, my top DPS was 44k; in the days following I was struggling to hit 37k with no changes to my setup. I don't exactly know what happened, but one day I hit 44k again, and once I saw that I was able to calm down and my DPS went back up to pre-Els. I don't think that we're going to be as lucky here and I fully expect DPS across the board to take a major hit, but perhaps some of the drop is just related to the expectation of a drop? Maybe????
  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    As an aside for the above post, I meant it in relation to certain mechanics. A lot of times it is a VERY parse heavy phase.
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I need to do some more testing before I can say anything definitive and look at what others are getting, but at the moment stamcro is hitting about 100k+ dps on the iron atro, magcro is hitting 91k+ and the rest of mag are 70k-84k atm. What sucks is there is no room for class abilities so right now mag brings almost 0 utility EXCEPT the magcro (who will likely be put into support sets like Martial Knowledge and Ze'en to fuel the stamcro overlords). It's actually pretty detrimental to run magicka atm and if our groups theory crafting is right, having stam in pseudo-dps setups (dps/healer hybrid) will outweigh the benefits of running healers at all with the echoing vigor changes. There would possibly be one mag dps for orbs/springs, but orbs may get relegated to the tank anyways now.

    I've seen two people repeat this claim, but no videos or parses. Care to provide some evidence for us to peruse? I'm not saying it wasn't done, but I'd like to see what was run and what skill combinations etc.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Emkay333
    Emkay333
    ✭✭
    I need to do some more testing before I can say anything definitive and look at what others are getting, but at the moment stamcro is hitting about 100k+ dps on the iron atro, magcro is hitting 91k+ and the rest of mag are 70k-84k atm. What sucks is there is no room for class abilities so right now mag brings almost 0 utility EXCEPT the magcro (who will likely be put into support sets like Martial Knowledge and Ze'en to fuel the stamcro overlords). It's actually pretty detrimental to run magicka atm and if our groups theory crafting is right, having stam in pseudo-dps setups (dps/healer hybrid) will outweigh the benefits of running healers at all with the echoing vigor changes. There would possibly be one mag dps for orbs/springs, but orbs may get relegated to the tank anyways now.

    I've seen two people repeat this claim, but no videos or parses. Care to provide some evidence for us to peruse? I'm not saying it wasn't done, but I'd like to see what was run and what skill combinations etc.

    Really the biggest thing is Necromancer being the exclusive source of Major Vulnerability, which is an overall 30% boost to damage on the inflicted target. No other class has this, and it favors having nearly exclusive necromancer dps to have the highest uptimes on this overpowered debuff.

    After looking at some more of the necromancer abilities, being able to provide yourself with your own synergy is another massive advantage that no other class has, considering the huge nerfs to healing orbs.

    Now that I think about it, the "Rapid Rot: Increases your damage done with damage over time effects by 10%." seems kinda strong as well, especially more so now they want to focus dps on single target dots.

    Te
    Edited by Emkay333 on July 9, 2019 4:31AM
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    As expected, my dps is lower than it would be on live. I'm pulling 41, almost 42k on the 6 mill dummy, selfbuffed, with the new Soul Trap and Degeneration in my rotation. Live would be 45k ish on a similar rotation. I did expect the drop. Just hoping people don't cry NeRf EnTrOpY aNd SoUl TrAp when the dps is already lower.
    I will kick everyone's butt, even my own.

    PC NA
    CP 1200+
    Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Legate - Flawless Conqueror
    Falls-With-Stars - Argonian Magicka Templar - AD - Former Empress - Voice of Reason
    vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+1/vSS/vSS Yol HM
    Dragon-in-Shadows - Argonian Magicka Nightblade - Shadow Breaker
    Eossos - Khajiit Magicka Templar
    Death-Singer - Argonian Magicka Nightblade
    Dark-Star - Khajiit Magicka Dragonknight
    Ice-Dancer - Khajiit Magicka Warden
    Tsalli-ko - Khajiit Stamina Sorcerer
  • redspecter23
    redspecter23
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Twilight Matriarch nerf is devastating. Pets consume two skillbar slots; they SHOULD be twice as beneficial as other uses for those slots.

    The number of slots an ability takes up shouldn't reflect the benefit directly. If that's true, I'd love an ability that takes up all 12 slots and is 12 times as effective. I'd argue that the correct fix for that particular issue would be to reduce the number of slots it requires down to 1.

  • wills43b14_ESO
    wills43b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Best I can do is about 87.4k on the magsorc.... that's with a completely inviable setup for nearly any trial getting as sweaty as possible with a 100% dynamic 10 skill bar... it was probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do for as little return as I could get relative to a magplar pulling about 85k w/ a static rotation.... which is all SIGNIFICANTLY behind magcro and providing 0 group utility....
  • Emkay333
    Emkay333
    ✭✭
    Emkay333 wrote: »
    Why did such skills like Degeneration and Soul Trap get such insane buffs to the point it'll be required to slot them? like roughly 24k dot over 12 seconds with major sorcery for 24 seconds plus the magic return on every light/heavy attack for degen? Then ive seen a rough 34k dot tool tip over 10 seconds for soul trap, with hp/stam/magic return as well?

    Because it's easier to balance global skills than class skills. They want everyone to be using the same skills.

    It's basically the balance team being lazy (as always).

    I just thought of something https://eso-sets.com/set/oblivions-foe

    What's gonna happen with this set? Will it replace current meta sets? :^)
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Emkay333 wrote: »
    I just thought of something https://eso-sets.com/set/oblivions-foe
    What's gonna happen with this set? Will it replace current meta sets? :^)

    Damn, forgot all about that one ...
    unsure.gif
    The Sidekick Order:
    The Naked Nords | The Cannon Fodder of Tamriel | The Mercenaries without Skills | The League of formidable Crafters
    The Psijic Order - 0.016% | Elder Moot | Lone Wolf Help | Great House Hlaalu
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Emkay333 wrote: »
    I need to do some more testing before I can say anything definitive and look at what others are getting, but at the moment stamcro is hitting about 100k+ dps on the iron atro, magcro is hitting 91k+ and the rest of mag are 70k-84k atm. What sucks is there is no room for class abilities so right now mag brings almost 0 utility EXCEPT the magcro (who will likely be put into support sets like Martial Knowledge and Ze'en to fuel the stamcro overlords). It's actually pretty detrimental to run magicka atm and if our groups theory crafting is right, having stam in pseudo-dps setups (dps/healer hybrid) will outweigh the benefits of running healers at all with the echoing vigor changes. There would possibly be one mag dps for orbs/springs, but orbs may get relegated to the tank anyways now.

    I've seen two people repeat this claim, but no videos or parses. Care to provide some evidence for us to peruse? I'm not saying it wasn't done, but I'd like to see what was run and what skill combinations etc.

    Really the biggest thing is Necromancer being the exclusive source of Major Vulnerability, which is an overall 30% boost to damage on the inflicted target. No other class has this, and it favors having nearly exclusive necromancer dps to have the highest uptimes on this overpowered debuff.

    After looking at some more of the necromancer abilities, being able to provide yourself with your own synergy is another massive advantage that no other class has, considering the huge nerfs to healing orbs.

    Who would have thunk that giving the strongest debuff in the game to only one class would create balance issues?
Sign In or Register to comment.