We feared you'd leave addons unable to read guild history. Don't make it permanent please.

martinhpb16_ESO

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I agree. Addons should be disabled across the board. I don't use any myself.

I think the best way for the devs to receive real feedback is to be provided with real feedback. The best way to get real feedback is to make sure players play the game the way it was intended. That means zero addons.

If they lose a bunch of money because people quit supporting the game due to bad mechanics, like the guild trader system, then so be it. Losing money is sometimes the only form of feedback that a developer is willing to listen to. Whatever works as long as it gets them to look at their product objectively.

Just wrong.

As we get closer to launch, our beta events have continued to grow in player-size, and that growth has resulted in even more and more of you taking the time to experiment with our UI modding tools. It’s exciting to see the amazing add-ons you have come up with and for us, as developers, it’s also a very important part of the beta process. Seeing what the community wants to add or change is helpful as we continue to tweak and balance the game – what are people looking for? what works? what doesn’t? Finding the right answers to these questions often means leaving the API very open during this beta phase. It helps us see where limits may or may not be and helps us determine what makes the best possible ESO experience for everyone.

We welcome creativity and have built ESO on player-choice, but as a game played with thousands of others, we also must be mindful of any mods that give clear mechanical advantages in competitive situations. Maintaining a level playing field will always be our first priority. Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others. We do not want those who aren’t interested in using an add-on to feel compelled to do so because they cannot remain competitive without them. As we continue beta testing, we’ll continue to evaluate add-ons and the implications they have on other players, but you can expect changes to the API before launch and will share that information as it becomes available. Thank you to all of you that have created add-ons during this time – we appreciate your help in making ESO the best it can be.

reoskit

srfrogg23 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

I truly do not think they’re working towards removing addons. PC would become a ghost town if that happened.

People will adapt just fine.

Here's a "fun" idea for PC players who currently use addons:

Take an hour or so this weekend. Disable all of your addons. Then, play. And I'm not just talking questing. Do your usual, daily stuffs.

Report back. Y'all ready for adaptation?

Edit: werds

I agree. Addons should be disabled across the board. I don't use any myself.

I think the best way for the devs to receive real feedback is to be provided with real feedback. The best way to get real feedback is to make sure players play the game the way it was intended. That means zero addons.

If they lose a bunch of money because people quit supporting the game due to bad mechanics, like the guild trader system, then so be it. Losing money is sometimes the only form of feedback that a developer is willing to listen to. Whatever works as long as it gets them to look at their product objectively.

No, you do not agree with me. My point is to show how utterly unenjoyable the game (at large, not just trade) would be for people who have lived for years with addons.

You want addons gone. I absolutely do not. You've got this footstomping "my way or the highway" mentality about it, but you refuse to see all the people here who say that gameplay is significantly enhanced by the options made available through addons. You do not get to dictate that just because YOU play without addons, the rest of us must be deprived of them.

As anita said, somewhere up there ^, addons facilitate many different playstyles and preferences. No amount of feedback is going to guide ZOS in the one, perfect UI direction that will make everyone happy. What's more, should they turn off addons, I'll state it one more time, there won't be a whole lot of people left to give feedback.


BUT - We're getting further and further away from the original point of this thread.

Please, reinstate addon access to the Guild History ASAP!! This is hurting our gameplay, it's hurting our guilds, it's hurting trade, and it's absolutely hurting interest in the game. I cannot count how many people are saying "I'm just tired of this game right now." Fix this and fast, before we lose valuable, veteran players.

Ixilith

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

Oh boi u have gotten so much wrong

- Square Enix banned addons in ff11 and ff14 because they believe addons are toxic to a games community. Instead of letting it get out of hand they simply prevented it. And they aren’t banned, you can use addons such as dps meters in ff14 u just can’t talk about them.

- most MMORPGs are not on console so wouldn’t ban them for this reason either. MMORPGs are dominantly a pc genre of game.

- unfair advantage would indicate these players are in competition to you, otherwise there isn’t a advantage against you. You can’t group play or talk to these players as there’s no cross platform play.

- we shouldn’t lose out because of you. This doesn’t affect you at all as it has no impact on your gameplay.

- the servers are barely stable, and on console they are even worse. Introducing addons into the servers would break the game further.

Generally in most genres people on pc get it easier. That’s just how it is. Don’t blame pc or ZeniMax for this. It’s actually the console companies that don’t put the tech into these to allow such features. And us not ZeniMax should be held accountable for that.

We as pc players should not be punished for what a console is unable to do.

It’s about time we all stop shouting about features taken away from players. And concentrate on what actually affects us in the game. As this litterally doesn’t impact you.

And stop with this crap about “if it was intended it’d be in the game”

Why would ZeniMax pay people to do something the community is willing to do for free? Like honestly your aware addon creators aren’t paid right? This is free things given to a community. This sells pc versions of the game... they aren’t there because ZeniMax know they don’t need to bother.

Modding and addons have become huge in TES games. And have kept them alive to this day. ZeniMax and Bethesda likely intentionally leave these QoL fixs out because the playerbase will produce them.

WoW doesn’t have DBM inbuilt yet blizzard have admitted they balance their raids around players use of the addon.

MMORPGs don’t build addons. They leave players to that. And yeah that’s gonna cut consoles off that market. But this is no different to every other mmorpg on the market.

This has no impact on you. It isn’t crossplay. It’s not a advantage, because it means nothing to be more progressed then you while being on another platform. This game has no esports surrounding it. There’s no competition. “Are we entitled to addons being on pc?” Yes we are. It’s become the norm to use addons in MMORPGs. And just because a completely different culture disagrees doesn’t mean we should change ours.

Addons should be in the game, people shouldn’t lose things because there’s platforms that can’t take advantage of them

In this mindset Why not remove keyboard and mouse compatibility from FPS’s because it’s widely believed to be easier to aim with?

Platforms don’t offer the same things. You pick the one u want, we are all open to buying any of the platforms. No ones refused the right to play on the platform they want.

reoskit

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Addons are a thing, they are not going away.

If you dont like addons dont use them. Telling me and people like me not to use addons is a fruitless cause. You could go and start your own anti-addon thread elsewhere and allow us here to feedback on what we need to do to run our trade guilds.

Zos please bring back guild history so that we can use the addons that allow us to undertake complex guild admin, so that we can continue to run trade guilds that thousands of people enjoy being members of. Please also consider using this opportunity to start a productive dialogue with Trade Guild gms and officers so that we can begin to improve on the trade system.

Quoting for emphasis. We need to get back to the topic at hand.

My apologies for taking the bait on the other conversations.

We need our guild history back and we need addons to have access to it.

StabbityDoom

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I agree. Addons should be disabled across the board. I don't use any myself.

I think the best way for the devs to receive real feedback is to be provided with real feedback. The best way to get real feedback is to make sure players play the game the way it was intended. That means zero addons.

If they lose a bunch of money because people quit supporting the game due to bad mechanics, like the guild trader system, then so be it. Losing money is sometimes the only form of feedback that a developer is willing to listen to. Whatever works as long as it gets them to look at their product objectively.

Just wrong.

As we get closer to launch, our beta events have continued to grow in player-size, and that growth has resulted in even more and more of you taking the time to experiment with our UI modding tools. It’s exciting to see the amazing add-ons you have come up with and for us, as developers, it’s also a very important part of the beta process. Seeing what the community wants to add or change is helpful as we continue to tweak and balance the game – what are people looking for? what works? what doesn’t? Finding the right answers to these questions often means leaving the API very open during this beta phase. It helps us see where limits may or may not be and helps us determine what makes the best possible ESO experience for everyone.

We welcome creativity and have built ESO on player-choice, but as a game played with thousands of others, we also must be mindful of any mods that give clear mechanical advantages in competitive situations. Maintaining a level playing field will always be our first priority. Our intent with add-ons is to encourage you to modify your UI in a way that is more fitting for your personal play-style, but not ones that could allow you to make choices for others. We do not want those who aren’t interested in using an add-on to feel compelled to do so because they cannot remain competitive without them. As we continue beta testing, we’ll continue to evaluate add-ons and the implications they have on other players, but you can expect changes to the API before launch and will share that information as it becomes available. Thank you to all of you that have created add-ons during this time – we appreciate your help in making ESO the best it can be.

I love it when someone brings the receipts.

TQSkull

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

]

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

I think the experience will be much better without all of these 3rd party addons manipulating the market. Now people will use the system the way it was intended. They'll have to.

Now, if a single guild wants to dominate a specific trader for months at a time, they will actually have to run their trading guild like a real business, which is going to be so, so fun...

Honestly, I hope Zos leaves it this way. Then they'll finally get some real feedback on this crap system instead of constantly being defended by people who only enjoy it because they supplement their experience with 3rd party software. Heck, the console crowd seems to be doing just fine.

Go forth and trade! Anarchy is here

Sorry this doesn't stack up. It was always intended that addons would fill the voids in UI functionality, partially because of the console .

Statements like this do not negate the fact that addons do exist and provide much needed functionality that players have come to depend on.

Also you have not grasped that guild history has been disabled, a feature that is integral to the core game. Addons do not manipulate the game or the market they interrogate information that is available and deliver it to players in a usable way.

It is already a pretty one-sided and toxic relationship that Zos has with its trade guild GMs. We undertake huge amounts of admin, stress and yes fun as well running the trade system for Zos, without much support or direct communication. For example Zos has failed to grasp, the direct impact of crown selling (basically legal gold buying) on the trading system and how an excess of gold from those willing to spend real money has had on the bidding system.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker how about a dedicated, named developer responsible for the trade system, a forum thread and a constructive dialogue between trade GMs and Zos initiated please?

It does add up. Addons can be good for cosmetic customization. If you want to rearrange the UI, change its appearance then, yeah, that's why they have addon functionality.

I don't think the devs intended for people to use the addons to circumvent gameplay. Make no mistake, manually researching and tracking market prices amongst a large number of competing vendors is the intended "gameplay". It's a medieval market simulator, not a modern corporate tycoon simulator.

I know for sure that they NEVER intended for addons to be used to give players such a significant advantage over the players who aren't using addons.

how can you know that for sure? zos is in control about which api functions can be used and most likely they know what you are able to do with it. additionally they disabled those functions if players archived something they didn't thought about. so i would say it was pretty much intended.

Do you honestly think they would create a system specifically to be circumvented by addons? To be considered almost mandatory just to enjoy the content? Do you honestly think they intended for players to have such a massive advantage over other players just because they use some addons?

No. I don't think that was the intent at all. I think, it's more of a case of either addons are allowed or they're not, and up until this point, they tolerated the addons that bordered on cheating because they didn't want to prevent the use of cosmetic addons.

You should be thankful for this development. It means you will enjoy the game the way it was intended. If you don't like it that way, then you can join the rest of us when we say the guild trader system sucks (this is the reason why it sucks, btw).

It is intended to use this game with mods. That's why there is an api with documentation.

StabbityDoom

Honestly, some people like playing things on the hardest mode possible. But they shouldn't force it on the rest of us.

As reo said, and i'm going to say it again because it is the POINT of this whole thread, anti-addoners aside:

"Please, reinstate addon access to the Guild History ASAP!! This is hurting our gameplay, it's hurting our guilds, it's hurting trade, and it's absolutely hurting interest in the game. I cannot count how many people are saying "I'm just tired of this game right now." Fix this and fast, before we lose valuable, veteran players."

LIKE ME.

wavingblue

reoskit wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

I truly do not think they’re working towards removing addons. PC would become a ghost town if that happened.

People will adapt just fine.

Here's a "fun" idea for PC players who currently use addons:

Take an hour or so this weekend. Disable all of your addons. Then, play. And I'm not just talking questing. Do your usual, daily stuffs.

Report back. Y'all ready for adaptation?

Edit: werds

I agree. Addons should be disabled across the board. I don't use any myself.

I think the best way for the devs to receive real feedback is to be provided with real feedback. The best way to get real feedback is to make sure players play the game the way it was intended. That means zero addons.

If they lose a bunch of money because people quit supporting the game due to bad mechanics, like the guild trader system, then so be it. Losing money is sometimes the only form of feedback that a developer is willing to listen to. Whatever works as long as it gets them to look at their product objectively.

Please, reinstate addon access to the Guild History ASAP!! This is hurting our gameplay, it's hurting our guilds, it's hurting trade, and it's absolutely hurting interest in the game. I cannot count how many people are saying "I'm just tired of this game right now." Fix this and fast, before we lose valuable, veteran players.

/Me raises hand

I'm one of those that will take my few hundred dollars per year and run. This is the last straw. Group finder has been promised to be fixed for a couple of years, not only has it not been fixed you know have to button mash to get into the queue. So you queue to queue. While I don't PVP it's a complete mess, and it has gotten messier as population increase to the point where you limited access to that (I'm seeing a trend here). Now because you broke more things you go nuclear and take away access completely. Then... when it comes back it'll be half-ass for who knows how long. Group finder has been half-ass for awhile now, not anywhere near being fixed. Communication is half-ass, not anywhere near being fixed Cyrodil is half-ass, not anywhere near being fixed. Why should I believe you are going to restore add-on access anytime soon? We have taken these measures in stride so the population will take this too.. but we won't, you have blown up the bridges. Your move ZOS, you can fix the game or you can lose players that are dedicated and hope you bring in enough new players to replace the revenue.

TheTraveler

Btw, if you cancel your subs, where does all the materials you had in your "bag" go? Do they just disappear never to be retrieved again?

StabbityDoom

TheTraveler wrote: »

Btw, if you cancel your subs, where does all the materials you had in your "bag" go? Do they just disappear never to be retrieved again?

It stays in your bag but nothing more can go in.

RANKK7

TheTraveler wrote: »

Btw, if you cancel your subs, where does all the materials you had in your "bag" go? Do they just disappear never to be retrieved again?

No, all stay in there of course and it's yours, you can withdraw anything when you want, you just can't add anymore.

srfrogg23

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

]

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

I think the experience will be much better without all of these 3rd party addons manipulating the market. Now people will use the system the way it was intended. They'll have to.

Now, if a single guild wants to dominate a specific trader for months at a time, they will actually have to run their trading guild like a real business, which is going to be so, so fun...

Honestly, I hope Zos leaves it this way. Then they'll finally get some real feedback on this crap system instead of constantly being defended by people who only enjoy it because they supplement their experience with 3rd party software. Heck, the console crowd seems to be doing just fine.

Go forth and trade! Anarchy is here

Sorry this doesn't stack up. It was always intended that addons would fill the voids in UI functionality, partially because of the console .

Statements like this do not negate the fact that addons do exist and provide much needed functionality that players have come to depend on.

Also you have not grasped that guild history has been disabled, a feature that is integral to the core game. Addons do not manipulate the game or the market they interrogate information that is available and deliver it to players in a usable way.

It is already a pretty one-sided and toxic relationship that Zos has with its trade guild GMs. We undertake huge amounts of admin, stress and yes fun as well running the trade system for Zos, without much support or direct communication. For example Zos has failed to grasp, the direct impact of crown selling (basically legal gold buying) on the trading system and how an excess of gold from those willing to spend real money has had on the bidding system.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker how about a dedicated, named developer responsible for the trade system, a forum thread and a constructive dialogue between trade GMs and Zos initiated please?

It does add up. Addons can be good for cosmetic customization. If you want to rearrange the UI, change its appearance then, yeah, that's why they have addon functionality.

I don't think the devs intended for people to use the addons to circumvent gameplay. Make no mistake, manually researching and tracking market prices amongst a large number of competing vendors is the intended "gameplay". It's a medieval market simulator, not a modern corporate tycoon simulator.

I know for sure that they NEVER intended for addons to be used to give players such a significant advantage over the players who aren't using addons.

how can you know that for sure? zos is in control about which api functions can be used and most likely they know what you are able to do with it. additionally they disabled those functions if players archived something they didn't thought about. so i would say it was pretty much intended.

Do you honestly think they would create a system specifically to be circumvented by addons? To be considered almost mandatory just to enjoy the content? Do you honestly think they intended for players to have such a massive advantage over other players just because they use some addons?

No. I don't think that was the intent at all. I think, it's more of a case of either addons are allowed or they're not, and up until this point, they tolerated the addons that bordered on cheating because they didn't want to prevent the use of cosmetic addons.

You should be thankful for this development. It means you will enjoy the game the way it was intended. If you don't like it that way, then you can join the rest of us when we say the guild trader system sucks (this is the reason why it sucks, btw).

It is intended to use this game with mods. That's why there is an api with documentation.

And, now they're turned off. Gotta play the game the same way the rest of us do now.

srfrogg23

reoskit wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

I truly do not think they’re working towards removing addons. PC would become a ghost town if that happened.

People will adapt just fine.

Here's a "fun" idea for PC players who currently use addons:

Take an hour or so this weekend. Disable all of your addons. Then, play. And I'm not just talking questing. Do your usual, daily stuffs.

Report back. Y'all ready for adaptation?

Edit: werds

I agree. Addons should be disabled across the board. I don't use any myself.

I think the best way for the devs to receive real feedback is to be provided with real feedback. The best way to get real feedback is to make sure players play the game the way it was intended. That means zero addons.

If they lose a bunch of money because people quit supporting the game due to bad mechanics, like the guild trader system, then so be it. Losing money is sometimes the only form of feedback that a developer is willing to listen to. Whatever works as long as it gets them to look at their product objectively.

No, you do not agree with me. My point is to show how utterly unenjoyable the game (at large, not just trade) would be for people who have lived for years with addons.

You want addons gone. I absolutely do not. You've got this footstomping "my way or the highway" mentality about it, but you refuse to see all the people here who say that gameplay is significantly enhanced by the options made available through addons. You do not get to dictate that just because YOU play without addons, the rest of us must be deprived of them.

As anita said, somewhere up there ^, addons facilitate many different playstyles and preferences. No amount of feedback is going to guide ZOS in the one, perfect UI direction that will make everyone happy. What's more, should they turn off addons, I'll state it one more time, there won't be a whole lot of people left to give feedback.


BUT - We're getting further and further away from the original point of this thread.

Please, reinstate addon access to the Guild History ASAP!! This is hurting our gameplay, it's hurting our guilds, it's hurting trade, and it's absolutely hurting interest in the game. I cannot count how many people are saying "I'm just tired of this game right now." Fix this and fast, before we lose valuable, veteran players.

Of course I don't get to dictate whether or not addons are allowed. The gameplay is much more fair to everyone without them, though. Do you really think I'm the one who turned off the addons?

Besides, it's obviously not unplayable or even unenjoyable without them. I would argue that it's just that much better and more enjoyable when people are willing to be honest instead of just saying "it doesn't need to be fixed, just download this list of addons to make up for the devs bad ideas!"

And, if droves of people really stop playing over this issue, then they'll know they need to fix it. I'm ok with that. They probably are, too.

reoskit

Not taking the bait anymore.

Please restore the guild history and the API access to it.

Ardan147

.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

KyraCROgnon wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

iirc, ZOS excuse for a lot of missing basic functionnalities (like mini map for exemple ...) has always been "we allowed add-ons , so just make your own" . If the game had a rich interface, we could do without them, but it has never been ZOS politic to improve on gameplay when they could have unpaid volunteers do it !
So your sentence is completely wrong : a lot of features should have been in game but weren't included to cut cost because they hoped add-on makers to fill the gap.

And, that stance, 5 years ago, was wrong. It's time for them to rethink that strategy. This is a multiplayer game. What I do affects other people and vice-versa.

Just because they were thinking of cosmetic changes with addons, doesn't mean that they intended for players to use addons that give them advantages over other players.

That original philosophy was not intended to give players carte blanche freedom to do whatever the heck they wanted to do.

FOR THE LAST TIME, addons do not give players unfair advantages over other players, because there is nothing to stop the other players from using them!

That said, the game out of the box is barely playable. The guild store interface pre-Wrathstone, just to provide an example, was COMPLETELY unusable. It did not even constitute a finished, sales-worthy product, period. Awesome Guild Store patched it up so that it was actually even somewhat usable (even if there were glaring limits to the extent to which any addon could patch such an obviously defective product).

Master Merchant takes data that can already be viewed under Guild History, and does in seconds what it would take a human HOURS or even DAYS to do by hand. It, along with other tools, makes it POSSIBLE for a large trading guild to have alternative sales requirements instead of mandatory dues, as the game itself provides no facilities for tracking the sales (and purchases) of individual members. (And even tracking the payment of guild dues is far more time consuming without addons, which any console GM could tell you.)

And lastly I would bet that the PC players who use addons are far more likely to be subscribed to ESO+, and spend far more in the crown store than those who don't use any addons; so if ZOS was to kill addons they might as well shut down the game entirely for PC.

If you hate addons that much then go play on console. (Though I for one would like to see console players get access to addons in some form, if ZOS could somehow work out something with Sony and Microsoft. At the very least provide some data manipulation tools to sort of replicate the function of MM and Shissu's Guild Tools)

TQSkull

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

]

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

I think the experience will be much better without all of these 3rd party addons manipulating the market. Now people will use the system the way it was intended. They'll have to.

Now, if a single guild wants to dominate a specific trader for months at a time, they will actually have to run their trading guild like a real business, which is going to be so, so fun...

Honestly, I hope Zos leaves it this way. Then they'll finally get some real feedback on this crap system instead of constantly being defended by people who only enjoy it because they supplement their experience with 3rd party software. Heck, the console crowd seems to be doing just fine.

Go forth and trade! Anarchy is here

Sorry this doesn't stack up. It was always intended that addons would fill the voids in UI functionality, partially because of the console .

Statements like this do not negate the fact that addons do exist and provide much needed functionality that players have come to depend on.

Also you have not grasped that guild history has been disabled, a feature that is integral to the core game. Addons do not manipulate the game or the market they interrogate information that is available and deliver it to players in a usable way.

It is already a pretty one-sided and toxic relationship that Zos has with its trade guild GMs. We undertake huge amounts of admin, stress and yes fun as well running the trade system for Zos, without much support or direct communication. For example Zos has failed to grasp, the direct impact of crown selling (basically legal gold buying) on the trading system and how an excess of gold from those willing to spend real money has had on the bidding system.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker how about a dedicated, named developer responsible for the trade system, a forum thread and a constructive dialogue between trade GMs and Zos initiated please?

It does add up. Addons can be good for cosmetic customization. If you want to rearrange the UI, change its appearance then, yeah, that's why they have addon functionality.

I don't think the devs intended for people to use the addons to circumvent gameplay. Make no mistake, manually researching and tracking market prices amongst a large number of competing vendors is the intended "gameplay". It's a medieval market simulator, not a modern corporate tycoon simulator.

I know for sure that they NEVER intended for addons to be used to give players such a significant advantage over the players who aren't using addons.

how can you know that for sure? zos is in control about which api functions can be used and most likely they know what you are able to do with it. additionally they disabled those functions if players archived something they didn't thought about. so i would say it was pretty much intended.

Do you honestly think they would create a system specifically to be circumvented by addons? To be considered almost mandatory just to enjoy the content? Do you honestly think they intended for players to have such a massive advantage over other players just because they use some addons?

No. I don't think that was the intent at all. I think, it's more of a case of either addons are allowed or they're not, and up until this point, they tolerated the addons that bordered on cheating because they didn't want to prevent the use of cosmetic addons.

You should be thankful for this development. It means you will enjoy the game the way it was intended. If you don't like it that way, then you can join the rest of us when we say the guild trader system sucks (this is the reason why it sucks, btw).

It is intended to use this game with mods. That's why there is an api with documentation.

And, now they're turned off. Gotta play the game the same way the rest of us do now.

Yes, for a few days.

TQSkull

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

TQSkull wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

]

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

I think the experience will be much better without all of these 3rd party addons manipulating the market. Now people will use the system the way it was intended. They'll have to.

Now, if a single guild wants to dominate a specific trader for months at a time, they will actually have to run their trading guild like a real business, which is going to be so, so fun...

Honestly, I hope Zos leaves it this way. Then they'll finally get some real feedback on this crap system instead of constantly being defended by people who only enjoy it because they supplement their experience with 3rd party software. Heck, the console crowd seems to be doing just fine.

Go forth and trade! Anarchy is here

Sorry this doesn't stack up. It was always intended that addons would fill the voids in UI functionality, partially because of the console .

Statements like this do not negate the fact that addons do exist and provide much needed functionality that players have come to depend on.

Also you have not grasped that guild history has been disabled, a feature that is integral to the core game. Addons do not manipulate the game or the market they interrogate information that is available and deliver it to players in a usable way.

It is already a pretty one-sided and toxic relationship that Zos has with its trade guild GMs. We undertake huge amounts of admin, stress and yes fun as well running the trade system for Zos, without much support or direct communication. For example Zos has failed to grasp, the direct impact of crown selling (basically legal gold buying) on the trading system and how an excess of gold from those willing to spend real money has had on the bidding system.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker how about a dedicated, named developer responsible for the trade system, a forum thread and a constructive dialogue between trade GMs and Zos initiated please?

It does add up. Addons can be good for cosmetic customization. If you want to rearrange the UI, change its appearance then, yeah, that's why they have addon functionality.

I don't think the devs intended for people to use the addons to circumvent gameplay. Make no mistake, manually researching and tracking market prices amongst a large number of competing vendors is the intended "gameplay". It's a medieval market simulator, not a modern corporate tycoon simulator.

I know for sure that they NEVER intended for addons to be used to give players such a significant advantage over the players who aren't using addons.

how can you know that for sure? zos is in control about which api functions can be used and most likely they know what you are able to do with it. additionally they disabled those functions if players archived something they didn't thought about. so i would say it was pretty much intended.

Do you honestly think they would create a system specifically to be circumvented by addons? To be considered almost mandatory just to enjoy the content? Do you honestly think they intended for players to have such a massive advantage over other players just because they use some addons?

No. I don't think that was the intent at all. I think, it's more of a case of either addons are allowed or they're not, and up until this point, they tolerated the addons that bordered on cheating because they didn't want to prevent the use of cosmetic addons.

You should be thankful for this development. It means you will enjoy the game the way it was intended. If you don't like it that way, then you can join the rest of us when we say the guild trader system sucks (this is the reason why it sucks, btw).

It is intended to use this game with mods. That's why there is an api with documentation.

And, now they're turned off. Gotta play the game the same way the rest of us do now.

Yes, for a few days.

srfrogg23

Ardan147 wrote: »

.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

KyraCROgnon wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

iirc, ZOS excuse for a lot of missing basic functionnalities (like mini map for exemple ...) has always been "we allowed add-ons , so just make your own" . If the game had a rich interface, we could do without them, but it has never been ZOS politic to improve on gameplay when they could have unpaid volunteers do it !
So your sentence is completely wrong : a lot of features should have been in game but weren't included to cut cost because they hoped add-on makers to fill the gap.

And, that stance, 5 years ago, was wrong. It's time for them to rethink that strategy. This is a multiplayer game. What I do affects other people and vice-versa.

Just because they were thinking of cosmetic changes with addons, doesn't mean that they intended for players to use addons that give them advantages over other players.

That original philosophy was not intended to give players carte blanche freedom to do whatever the heck they wanted to do.

FOR THE LAST TIME, addons do not give players unfair advantages over other players, because there is nothing to stop the other players from using them!

That said, the game out of the box is barely playable. The guild store interface pre-Wrathstone, just to provide an example, was COMPLETELY unusable. It did not even constitute a finished, sales-worthy product, period. Awesome Guild Store patched it up so that it was actually even somewhat usable (even if there were glaring limits to the extent to which any addon could patch such an obviously defective product).

Master Merchant takes data that can already be viewed under Guild History, and does in seconds what it would take a human HOURS or even DAYS to do by hand. It, along with other tools, makes it POSSIBLE for a large trading guild to have alternative sales requirements instead of mandatory dues, as the game itself provides no facilities for tracking the sales (and purchases) of individual members. (And even tracking the payment of guild dues is far more time consuming without addons, which any console GM could tell you.)

And lastly I would bet that the PC players who use addons are far more likely to be subscribed to ESO+, and spend far more in the crown store than those who don't use any addons; so if ZOS was to kill addons they might as well shut down the game entirely for PC.

If you hate addons that much then go play on console. (Though I for one would like to see console players get access to addons in some form, if ZOS could somehow work out something with Sony and Microsoft. At the very least provide some data manipulation tools to sort of replicate the function of MM and Shissu's Guild Tools)

The speed, accuracy, and quantity of information that these addons gather doesn't give you an advantage over someone without it? In what universe? You have access to metrics that others don't before, way before, anyone else does. That's a huge advantage.

Let's circle back to the guild trader system specifically. I have said for years that it is a crappy system. The fact that you think it is "unplayable" without your addons just proves my point.

For the sake of seeing some genuine improvements to this game, I hope they do not allow addons ever again. They need to fix the system itself, not rely on 3rd party software to "fill in the gaps".

reoskit

The only addons impacted are those that access the guild history. No others. Stop spreading false information.

Please give us back our guild history and allow addons to access it.

Kidgangster101

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

But this is OUR issue as an entire community though lol. "OUR game...

Sorry, nope. Console players and PC/Mac players are separate communities. If console players shared the same vision as PC/Mac players of what playing an MMO is or should be, if they had the same understanding of addons and game customization as PC/Mac players, they would not be playing on console in the very first place.
Don't get me wrong, I respect the reasons why people choose to play ESO on consoles, but whatever those reasons are, they show a different vision of MMO gaming altogether, which makes them a different community, with a different mentality, playstyle and concerns.

That shows a bit of everywhere in the forums, but even more evidently in this thread, where you prove that playing the trading game and running a trading guild in ESO are completely different things on PC/Mac and on consoles.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

[
And your telling me that people that make these add-ons can do zos job better than them? But yet everyone praises zos at doing such a good job? I wonder are they really if PC players make the game better by using technology outside of zos? That would be like saying the supermarket did a great job with their hamburger meat when the but her is the one that makes it lol.

At this stage I seriously doubt that you're trying to have a genuine conversation, but I'll bite.
Addon developers aren't BETTER than ZOS at implementing things or coding. But ZOS can only choose ONE design for any given system, while addon developers offer a multitude of options.
Take, for instance, the ability to save gear sets and change stuff on the spot. There are several addons that offer this : AlphaGear, Dressing Room, Wykkyd's Outfit (not sure that one's still working) , and maybe others that I don't know of. Each of them has an excellent design and implementation, but they're also very different. If ZOS chose to incorporate this function into the base game (which I believe they should), they'd have to choose between all those various design options, or a combination thereof, and no matter what they choose to do, it won't ever please everyone. Same goes for minimaps (at least 3 of them are extremely popular and each player has its own beloved one), combat logs, inventory sorting, etc. Basically, every aspect of the game.

The variety of addons allows to please everyone, while choosing ONE design as ZOS is forced to do cannot please everyone. That's why addons will ALWAYS have an added value as compared to vanilla.

On a side note, addons are not used to circumvent the game's original design, but to enhance it. ZOS keeps control on addons via the API, and if they think something breaks the intended gameplay in any way, they shut it down via the API. Happened with Miat's addons, with Group Damage, etc.

You and everyone saying it is not OUR game will never get it I guess. If we were NOT THE SAME GAME we would get DIFFERENT content. There would be a ESO PC edition and a PS4 ESO edition. A perfect example of this is everquest for PC and PlayStations version was called Everquest online adventures. Two separate titles that had different content. Here we are all playing ESO which has the same content, same updates, identical changes, we share a forum, but yet OUR games are different?

No all these add-ons you guys have available should have been implimented long ago to the base game. Showing skyshards, lorebooks, treasure chests, changing gear through macros (other games have that available on console), a way to search the traders quickly to know a few locations to check, a better visual to show when your dots need to be applied, you know quality of life features that come with any other MMO overtime.

It's not about what platform someone plays on, we all PLAY the same exact version of a game. So WE should be working together to improve the quality of life of the game. I don't understand why PC players are against their add-ons being added as a base part of the game. Their only response ever is go play on PC if you want our features. Then PC players get mad when we console players say you guys are entitled and ignorant because you guys think your better than console players because you invest more money into your PC so you are entitled to have a better version of the game. But yet the game wasn't successful on launch of PC and NEEDED the revenue that console brought to the game. This game would have been dead by now without them getting rid of a subscription based model and moving it to consoles. A perfect example how I know this, look at WOW. 14+ years of strictly a subscription game they never changed their model nor never ported to console because their player base didn't drop off.

Kidgangster101

Ixilith wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

Oh boi u have gotten so much wrong

- Square Enix banned addons in ff11 and ff14 because they believe addons are toxic to a games community. Instead of letting it get out of hand they simply prevented it. And they aren’t banned, you can use addons such as dps meters in ff14 u just can’t talk about them.

- most MMORPGs are not on console so wouldn’t ban them for this reason either. MMORPGs are dominantly a pc genre of game.

- unfair advantage would indicate these players are in competition to you, otherwise there isn’t a advantage against you. You can’t group play or talk to these players as there’s no cross platform play.

- we shouldn’t lose out because of you. This doesn’t affect you at all as it has no impact on your gameplay.

- the servers are barely stable, and on console they are even worse. Introducing addons into the servers would break the game further.

Generally in most genres people on pc get it easier. That’s just how it is. Don’t blame pc or ZeniMax for this. It’s actually the console companies that don’t put the tech into these to allow such features. And us not ZeniMax should be held accountable for that.

We as pc players should not be punished for what a console is unable to do.

It’s about time we all stop shouting about features taken away from players. And concentrate on what actually affects us in the game. As this litterally doesn’t impact you.

And stop with this crap about “if it was intended it’d be in the game”

Why would ZeniMax pay people to do something the community is willing to do for free? Like honestly your aware addon creators aren’t paid right? This is free things given to a community. This sells pc versions of the game... they aren’t there because ZeniMax know they don’t need to bother.

Modding and addons have become huge in TES games. And have kept them alive to this day. ZeniMax and Bethesda likely intentionally leave these QoL fixs out because the playerbase will produce them.

WoW doesn’t have DBM inbuilt yet blizzard have admitted they balance their raids around players use of the addon.

MMORPGs don’t build addons. They leave players to that. And yeah that’s gonna cut consoles off that market. But this is no different to every other mmorpg on the market.

This has no impact on you. It isn’t crossplay. It’s not a advantage, because it means nothing to be more progressed then you while being on another platform. This game has no esports surrounding it. There’s no competition. “Are we entitled to addons being on pc?” Yes we are. It’s become the norm to use addons in MMORPGs. And just because a completely different culture disagrees doesn’t mean we should change ours.

Addons should be in the game, people shouldn’t lose things because there’s platforms that can’t take advantage of them

In this mindset Why not remove keyboard and mouse compatibility from FPS’s because it’s widely believed to be easier to aim with?

Platforms don’t offer the same things. You pick the one u want, we are all open to buying any of the platforms. No ones refused the right to play on the platform they want.

Couldn't take anything you said seriously after your first paragraph lol. "Add-ons can be used but you just can't be talked about" so if you mention it and get in trouble it is obviously against their rules lol SMH.

And as far as advantages go, it is an advantage. There is an advantage for me to play on PC instead of console. WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE SAME GAME HERE, except PC has a better version. Yep but no advantage you say eh?

Edit to.say, instead of complaining about losing your add-on is the same as us console players saying all those great quality of life add-ons should be implemented into the game to improve quality of life of the game. Whenever we say we should get them PC players always say no go play on PC if you want them. Why not just put them in the base game so no one needs add-ons? Logic right? And then PC players get mad when console players are in their thread having an opinion, you guys always have an opinion on us and it is always about how WE chose to play on console and don't deserve a better game, logic right there.

Linaleah

sigh. pc players are NOT against addon features being implemented into a base game. we are against our current functionality being suddenly and unceremoniously REMOVED.

Kidgangster101

Linaleah wrote: »

sigh. pc players are NOT against addon features being implemented into a base game. we are against our current functionality being suddenly and unceremoniously REMOVED.

Yeah you say that but then go look at every skyshard thread when console players asked for it, or any time we ask for add-ons. Just really search it and look it is filled with PC players QQing about how if we want those features through add-ons to buy the PC version that we are beating a dead horse yep, but I guess it doesn't happen. Even PC players were saying console didn't need text chat. We made a million threads on it back in 2015 when it launched saying voice chat didn't work. What happened? It was filled with PC players saying no text chat was needed because as a console player we got voice chat, PC players even went as far as saying that console players didn't need it as they would never use it and it was a known fact and a waste of time a d resources...... But PC players aren't against it right? Just about every thread on the forum says otherwise lol.

Ixilith

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ixilith wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

Oh boi u have gotten so much wrong

- Square Enix banned addons in ff11 and ff14 because they believe addons are toxic to a games community. Instead of letting it get out of hand they simply prevented it. And they aren’t banned, you can use addons such as dps meters in ff14 u just can’t talk about them.

- most MMORPGs are not on console so wouldn’t ban them for this reason either. MMORPGs are dominantly a pc genre of game.

- unfair advantage would indicate these players are in competition to you, otherwise there isn’t a advantage against you. You can’t group play or talk to these players as there’s no cross platform play.

- we shouldn’t lose out because of you. This doesn’t affect you at all as it has no impact on your gameplay.

- the servers are barely stable, and on console they are even worse. Introducing addons into the servers would break the game further.

Generally in most genres people on pc get it easier. That’s just how it is. Don’t blame pc or ZeniMax for this. It’s actually the console companies that don’t put the tech into these to allow such features. And us not ZeniMax should be held accountable for that.

We as pc players should not be punished for what a console is unable to do.

It’s about time we all stop shouting about features taken away from players. And concentrate on what actually affects us in the game. As this litterally doesn’t impact you.

And stop with this crap about “if it was intended it’d be in the game”

Why would ZeniMax pay people to do something the community is willing to do for free? Like honestly your aware addon creators aren’t paid right? This is free things given to a community. This sells pc versions of the game... they aren’t there because ZeniMax know they don’t need to bother.

Modding and addons have become huge in TES games. And have kept them alive to this day. ZeniMax and Bethesda likely intentionally leave these QoL fixs out because the playerbase will produce them.

WoW doesn’t have DBM inbuilt yet blizzard have admitted they balance their raids around players use of the addon.

MMORPGs don’t build addons. They leave players to that. And yeah that’s gonna cut consoles off that market. But this is no different to every other mmorpg on the market.

This has no impact on you. It isn’t crossplay. It’s not a advantage, because it means nothing to be more progressed then you while being on another platform. This game has no esports surrounding it. There’s no competition. “Are we entitled to addons being on pc?” Yes we are. It’s become the norm to use addons in MMORPGs. And just because a completely different culture disagrees doesn’t mean we should change ours.

Addons should be in the game, people shouldn’t lose things because there’s platforms that can’t take advantage of them

In this mindset Why not remove keyboard and mouse compatibility from FPS’s because it’s widely believed to be easier to aim with?

Platforms don’t offer the same things. You pick the one u want, we are all open to buying any of the platforms. No ones refused the right to play on the platform they want.

Couldn't take anything you said seriously after your first paragraph lol. "Add-ons can be used but you just can't be talked about" so if you mention it and get in trouble it is obviously against their rules lol SMH.

And as far as advantages go, it is an advantage. There is an advantage for me to play on PC instead of console. WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE SAME GAME HERE, except PC has a better version. Yep but no advantage you say eh?

Edit to.say, instead of complaining about losing your add-on is the same as us console players saying all those great quality of life add-ons should be implemented into the game to improve quality of life of the game. Whenever we say we should get them PC players always say no go play on PC if you want them. Why not just put them in the base game so no one needs add-ons? Logic right? And then PC players get mad when console players are in their thread having an opinion, you guys always have an opinion on us and it is always about how WE chose to play on console and don't deserve a better game, logic right there.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ixilith wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

Oh boi u have gotten so much wrong

- Square Enix banned addons in ff11 and ff14 because they believe addons are toxic to a games community. Instead of letting it get out of hand they simply prevented it. And they aren’t banned, you can use addons such as dps meters in ff14 u just can’t talk about them.

- most MMORPGs are not on console so wouldn’t ban them for this reason either. MMORPGs are dominantly a pc genre of game.

- unfair advantage would indicate these players are in competition to you, otherwise there isn’t a advantage against you. You can’t group play or talk to these players as there’s no cross platform play.

- we shouldn’t lose out because of you. This doesn’t affect you at all as it has no impact on your gameplay.

- the servers are barely stable, and on console they are even worse. Introducing addons into the servers would break the game further.

Generally in most genres people on pc get it easier. That’s just how it is. Don’t blame pc or ZeniMax for this. It’s actually the console companies that don’t put the tech into these to allow such features. And us not ZeniMax should be held accountable for that.

We as pc players should not be punished for what a console is unable to do.

It’s about time we all stop shouting about features taken away from players. And concentrate on what actually affects us in the game. As this litterally doesn’t impact you.

And stop with this crap about “if it was intended it’d be in the game”

Why would ZeniMax pay people to do something the community is willing to do for free? Like honestly your aware addon creators aren’t paid right? This is free things given to a community. This sells pc versions of the game... they aren’t there because ZeniMax know they don’t need to bother.

Modding and addons have become huge in TES games. And have kept them alive to this day. ZeniMax and Bethesda likely intentionally leave these QoL fixs out because the playerbase will produce them.

WoW doesn’t have DBM inbuilt yet blizzard have admitted they balance their raids around players use of the addon.

MMORPGs don’t build addons. They leave players to that. And yeah that’s gonna cut consoles off that market. But this is no different to every other mmorpg on the market.

This has no impact on you. It isn’t crossplay. It’s not a advantage, because it means nothing to be more progressed then you while being on another platform. This game has no esports surrounding it. There’s no competition. “Are we entitled to addons being on pc?” Yes we are. It’s become the norm to use addons in MMORPGs. And just because a completely different culture disagrees doesn’t mean we should change ours.

Addons should be in the game, people shouldn’t lose things because there’s platforms that can’t take advantage of them

In this mindset Why not remove keyboard and mouse compatibility from FPS’s because it’s widely believed to be easier to aim with?

Platforms don’t offer the same things. You pick the one u want, we are all open to buying any of the platforms. No ones refused the right to play on the platform they want.

Couldn't take anything you said seriously after your first paragraph lol. "Add-ons can be used but you just can't be talked about" so if you mention it and get in trouble it is obviously against their rules lol SMH.

And as far as advantages go, it is an advantage. There is an advantage for me to play on PC instead of console. WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE SAME GAME HERE, except PC has a better version. Yep but no advantage you say eh?

Edit to.say, instead of complaining about losing your add-on is the same as us console players saying all those great quality of life add-ons should be implemented into the game to improve quality of life of the game. Whenever we say we should get them PC players always say no go play on PC if you want them. Why not just put them in the base game so no one needs add-ons? Logic right? And then PC players get mad when console players are in their thread having an opinion, you guys always have an opinion on us and it is always about how WE chose to play on console and don't deserve a better game, logic right there.

One when I said this, no your not allowed to talk about having these addons it’s to stop people discussing dps in game or being toxic towards a player for lower dps. They’re allowed however.

Let’s start at the top so u can understand.

- addons are created by players. Zenimax does not have rights to them. And to take them on would cost em extra staff to develop them as they can’t just take outside work.

- consoles aren’t build with the extra stress addons can have on its system. Ur putting your console at risk demanding this.

- putting addons into the fixed game would increase the requirements to play the game itself. Which would cause many players to be suddenly unable to play the game where they currently can.

Your method not only has the chances of causing consoles to get broken by content which isn’t quality controlled.

It also completely disables some players to play the game by adding more contribution to the game demanding more from pc

It leaves wider wholes for bugs and problems to occur which could cause the game to go offline more regularly.

But puts real people out of a job in addon creating so the company can employ randoms to do the same thing costing the company more money and unsystematic of more time on instead of content,

Because you decided to play on a console which has never in any game supported the use of addons or mods.

It was a decision. Just as I decided to play on pc and am punished by the fact to play the same games as you will require 100x more for me as pcs aren’t built to run every game releases on it unlike a console. But you don’t see me complaining you get things cheaper then me do I?

Does this do more damage then worth? Yes.

Take your complaints to your console provider to introduce support of addons. This will allow all of this without forcing 100s of mods actively changing the way we want the game.

Your idea forces addons onto players. Not only this but 100s of addons.

This gives options to addons usuage to use.

The problem is your platform doesn’t support the addons, not that the game restricts you as the games never denied you addons.

Ardan147

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Ardan147 wrote: »

.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

KyraCROgnon wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

iirc, ZOS excuse for a lot of missing basic functionnalities (like mini map for exemple ...) has always been "we allowed add-ons , so just make your own" . If the game had a rich interface, we could do without them, but it has never been ZOS politic to improve on gameplay when they could have unpaid volunteers do it !
So your sentence is completely wrong : a lot of features should have been in game but weren't included to cut cost because they hoped add-on makers to fill the gap.

And, that stance, 5 years ago, was wrong. It's time for them to rethink that strategy. This is a multiplayer game. What I do affects other people and vice-versa.

Just because they were thinking of cosmetic changes with addons, doesn't mean that they intended for players to use addons that give them advantages over other players.

That original philosophy was not intended to give players carte blanche freedom to do whatever the heck they wanted to do.

FOR THE LAST TIME, addons do not give players unfair advantages over other players, because there is nothing to stop the other players from using them!

That said, the game out of the box is barely playable. The guild store interface pre-Wrathstone, just to provide an example, was COMPLETELY unusable. It did not even constitute a finished, sales-worthy product, period. Awesome Guild Store patched it up so that it was actually even somewhat usable (even if there were glaring limits to the extent to which any addon could patch such an obviously defective product).

Master Merchant takes data that can already be viewed under Guild History, and does in seconds what it would take a human HOURS or even DAYS to do by hand. It, along with other tools, makes it POSSIBLE for a large trading guild to have alternative sales requirements instead of mandatory dues, as the game itself provides no facilities for tracking the sales (and purchases) of individual members. (And even tracking the payment of guild dues is far more time consuming without addons, which any console GM could tell you.)

And lastly I would bet that the PC players who use addons are far more likely to be subscribed to ESO+, and spend far more in the crown store than those who don't use any addons; so if ZOS was to kill addons they might as well shut down the game entirely for PC.

If you hate addons that much then go play on console. (Though I for one would like to see console players get access to addons in some form, if ZOS could somehow work out something with Sony and Microsoft. At the very least provide some data manipulation tools to sort of replicate the function of MM and Shissu's Guild Tools)

The speed, accuracy, and quantity of information that these addons gather doesn't give you an advantage over someone without it? In what universe? You have access to metrics that others don't before, way before, anyone else does. That's a huge advantage.

Let's circle back to the guild trader system specifically. I have said for years that it is a crappy system. The fact that you think it is "unplayable" without your addons just proves my point.

For the sake of seeing some genuine improvements to this game, I hope they do not allow addons ever again. They need to fix the system itself, not rely on 3rd party software to "fill in the gaps".

There is NOTHING stopping players who currently don't use them from changing their mind and using them, thus they do not provide any sort of UNFAIR advantage. Everyone on the same server plays by the same rules; as PC and console don't even mix they might as well be separate games even if (at the moment) they have similar if not identical content. They could easily take the development of the two in different directions if they chose to do so for some reason.

The only thing that the virtual unplayability of the game without addons proves is the failure of the publisher to deliver a complete software product. And without the ability of the community to patch the numerous holes and shortcomings in the game, it would fall on ZOS to fix things. (And no, it was certainly not "intended behavior" for it to be nearly impossible to find anything specific from guild stores using the default interface pre-Wrathstone; it was the fact that this shortcoming had been fixed via an addon that made ZOS fixing it themselves of a much lower priority than say, fixing issues with the servers.)

Like I said, if you don't like addons and don't want anyone else to use them, then play on console. Don't go ragging on PC players for using them because in your mind we're playing the game in a manner that wasn't "intended." (Especially when having to play the game in the manner that you believe was "intended" would take all the fun out of it.) I guess you believe it that the developers "intended" that guild leaders would have no way to accurately gauge each member's contribution to the guild other than by deposits to the guild bank, and that it also take hours of manual labor to identify and purge the guild membership of dead weight that wasn't contributing (or "not contributing" based on the only usable information that the GM had access to without having to spend hours upon hours of crunching data.)

Or would you rather be paying for all the extra programmer-hours that would be required to build this functionality into the game via mandatory subscriptions just to play and/or increased ESO+ subscription fees (and it would be nowhere near as flexible as with addons).

Ardan147

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ixilith wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

Oh boi u have gotten so much wrong

- Square Enix banned addons in ff11 and ff14 because they believe addons are toxic to a games community. Instead of letting it get out of hand they simply prevented it. And they aren’t banned, you can use addons such as dps meters in ff14 u just can’t talk about them.

- most MMORPGs are not on console so wouldn’t ban them for this reason either. MMORPGs are dominantly a pc genre of game.

- unfair advantage would indicate these players are in competition to you, otherwise there isn’t a advantage against you. You can’t group play or talk to these players as there’s no cross platform play.

- we shouldn’t lose out because of you. This doesn’t affect you at all as it has no impact on your gameplay.

- the servers are barely stable, and on console they are even worse. Introducing addons into the servers would break the game further.

Generally in most genres people on pc get it easier. That’s just how it is. Don’t blame pc or ZeniMax for this. It’s actually the console companies that don’t put the tech into these to allow such features. And us not ZeniMax should be held accountable for that.

We as pc players should not be punished for what a console is unable to do.

It’s about time we all stop shouting about features taken away from players. And concentrate on what actually affects us in the game. As this litterally doesn’t impact you.

And stop with this crap about “if it was intended it’d be in the game”

Why would ZeniMax pay people to do something the community is willing to do for free? Like honestly your aware addon creators aren’t paid right? This is free things given to a community. This sells pc versions of the game... they aren’t there because ZeniMax know they don’t need to bother.

Modding and addons have become huge in TES games. And have kept them alive to this day. ZeniMax and Bethesda likely intentionally leave these QoL fixs out because the playerbase will produce them.

WoW doesn’t have DBM inbuilt yet blizzard have admitted they balance their raids around players use of the addon.

MMORPGs don’t build addons. They leave players to that. And yeah that’s gonna cut consoles off that market. But this is no different to every other mmorpg on the market.

This has no impact on you. It isn’t crossplay. It’s not a advantage, because it means nothing to be more progressed then you while being on another platform. This game has no esports surrounding it. There’s no competition. “Are we entitled to addons being on pc?” Yes we are. It’s become the norm to use addons in MMORPGs. And just because a completely different culture disagrees doesn’t mean we should change ours.

Addons should be in the game, people shouldn’t lose things because there’s platforms that can’t take advantage of them

In this mindset Why not remove keyboard and mouse compatibility from FPS’s because it’s widely believed to be easier to aim with?

Platforms don’t offer the same things. You pick the one u want, we are all open to buying any of the platforms. No ones refused the right to play on the platform they want.

Couldn't take anything you said seriously after your first paragraph lol. "Add-ons can be used but you just can't be talked about" so if you mention it and get in trouble it is obviously against their rules lol SMH.

And as far as advantages go, it is an advantage. There is an advantage for me to play on PC instead of console. WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE SAME GAME HERE, except PC has a better version. Yep but no advantage you say eh?

Edit to.say, instead of complaining about losing your add-on is the same as us console players saying all those great quality of life add-ons should be implemented into the game to improve quality of life of the game. Whenever we say we should get them PC players always say no go play on PC if you want them. Why not just put them in the base game so no one needs add-ons? Logic right? And then PC players get mad when console players are in their thread having an opinion, you guys always have an opinion on us and it is always about how WE chose to play on console and don't deserve a better game, logic right there.

The likely reason why console doesn't have access to addons is because of Sony and Microsoft, not Zenimax.

As for putting all that functionality into the base game, it would just bloat the code and end up being far less flexible. The beauty of addons is that players get to choose which addons they download and enable based on their own needs and preferences. Someone who isn't that big into trading might not need something like Master Merchant (which is very resource intensive given the enormous amount of data that it needs to handle, and that it also needs to scan your guild history at regular intervals to get the latest updated data.)

reoskit

I'm going to appeal to those of you (apparently logical people) who keep responding to the people trying to derail this thread.

If you care about the ORIGINAL TOPIC of this thread, please please please stop responding to them. You're only fueling them and taking away from the point here.

This thread, is not about pc v console, it's not about console QOL, and it's not about abolishing addons. Those points can all be discussed ad nauseam somewhere else. Start your own thread and stop trying to derail ours.

This thread is about the restoration of the guild history and the API access to it.

Everything else is drowning out the message.

Please, stay on topic!

Kidgangster101

Ixilith wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ixilith wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

Oh boi u have gotten so much wrong

- Square Enix banned addons in ff11 and ff14 because they believe addons are toxic to a games community. Instead of letting it get out of hand they simply prevented it. And they aren’t banned, you can use addons such as dps meters in ff14 u just can’t talk about them.

- most MMORPGs are not on console so wouldn’t ban them for this reason either. MMORPGs are dominantly a pc genre of game.

- unfair advantage would indicate these players are in competition to you, otherwise there isn’t a advantage against you. You can’t group play or talk to these players as there’s no cross platform play.

- we shouldn’t lose out because of you. This doesn’t affect you at all as it has no impact on your gameplay.

- the servers are barely stable, and on console they are even worse. Introducing addons into the servers would break the game further.

Generally in most genres people on pc get it easier. That’s just how it is. Don’t blame pc or ZeniMax for this. It’s actually the console companies that don’t put the tech into these to allow such features. And us not ZeniMax should be held accountable for that.

We as pc players should not be punished for what a console is unable to do.

It’s about time we all stop shouting about features taken away from players. And concentrate on what actually affects us in the game. As this litterally doesn’t impact you.

And stop with this crap about “if it was intended it’d be in the game”

Why would ZeniMax pay people to do something the community is willing to do for free? Like honestly your aware addon creators aren’t paid right? This is free things given to a community. This sells pc versions of the game... they aren’t there because ZeniMax know they don’t need to bother.

Modding and addons have become huge in TES games. And have kept them alive to this day. ZeniMax and Bethesda likely intentionally leave these QoL fixs out because the playerbase will produce them.

WoW doesn’t have DBM inbuilt yet blizzard have admitted they balance their raids around players use of the addon.

MMORPGs don’t build addons. They leave players to that. And yeah that’s gonna cut consoles off that market. But this is no different to every other mmorpg on the market.

This has no impact on you. It isn’t crossplay. It’s not a advantage, because it means nothing to be more progressed then you while being on another platform. This game has no esports surrounding it. There’s no competition. “Are we entitled to addons being on pc?” Yes we are. It’s become the norm to use addons in MMORPGs. And just because a completely different culture disagrees doesn’t mean we should change ours.

Addons should be in the game, people shouldn’t lose things because there’s platforms that can’t take advantage of them

In this mindset Why not remove keyboard and mouse compatibility from FPS’s because it’s widely believed to be easier to aim with?

Platforms don’t offer the same things. You pick the one u want, we are all open to buying any of the platforms. No ones refused the right to play on the platform they want.

Couldn't take anything you said seriously after your first paragraph lol. "Add-ons can be used but you just can't be talked about" so if you mention it and get in trouble it is obviously against their rules lol SMH.

And as far as advantages go, it is an advantage. There is an advantage for me to play on PC instead of console. WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE SAME GAME HERE, except PC has a better version. Yep but no advantage you say eh?

Edit to.say, instead of complaining about losing your add-on is the same as us console players saying all those great quality of life add-ons should be implemented into the game to improve quality of life of the game. Whenever we say we should get them PC players always say no go play on PC if you want them. Why not just put them in the base game so no one needs add-ons? Logic right? And then PC players get mad when console players are in their thread having an opinion, you guys always have an opinion on us and it is always about how WE chose to play on console and don't deserve a better game, logic right there.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Ixilith wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

StabbityDoom wrote: »

People have different opinions on this issue, @Kidgangster101 , you can't lump us all into Want Addons but not global ah... you could go around and each trader has a different feeling on that.

Secondly, console players accepted the deal at the outset. Those of us who play pc wanted addons and expected them from prior experiences. Are we dependent on them? Yes. Are you not? Correct. Does that matter? No. You didn't have something you agreed to from the outset taken away.

I am trying very hard to be polite but I don't trust it and we need to stay on them.
If we let off the pressure I truly believe they will move onto other issues and leave us this way.

No hard feelings to those of you who simply don't understand our issues or what we're complaining about.

@StabbityDoom

You think you are entitled to add-ons in this game? Just because you play on PC and I play on console you should have an edge to play the game? I'm sorry to tell you that all those add-ons that you use, if they were intended to be in the game they would have been.

A huge advantage you get is the one that helps you in combat. It tells you when you need to cleanse, tells you the exact time on your dots. When did I as a console player agree to not have major quality of life improvements? Or how about the add-ons that show you skyshard locations, lore book locations, treasure chest locations to make easy gold?

I'm not trying to sound rude but I rember a day when add-ons were a banable offense in MMOs because it gave you an unfair advantage over the players that did not. (Yes I have known several people that got banned I'm ff11 for having them active while playing).

So maybe instead of being mad that you lost a feature in your add-ons, why not fight to get them implimemted into the game? How the game runs on PC with add-ons are amazing, so why not get all of those great features built into the core of the game?

If PC players came on this forum and said xyz add-ons are amazing zos please add these to the game we might get an improved game rather than "if you want that you should have played on PC instead of console because PC gaming is better" type attitude demonstrated in so many posts.

As I stated before a global auction house would fix everything. (You guys on PC don't have the problems like us on consoles do with people buying all the spots in the game a re selling them for huge profits because of your add-ons).

Or at this point console players would take a npc in each zone that shows you where items are for sale and the history of said item. (And that btw would be something very similar to the add-on you use right now).

But t nope I'm just a console player who shouldn't have as much of a great experience on a game as you because you play on PC. You do know we play the same game and should all be working together to improve the game right? If all the console players stop playing that is a huge revenue loss for zos and the game would ultimately die due to not as much subs/micro transactions coming in. Just saying it takes all 3 platforms combined to keep this game running, it should be time we all try to improve quality of life of the game together.

Oh boi u have gotten so much wrong

- Square Enix banned addons in ff11 and ff14 because they believe addons are toxic to a games community. Instead of letting it get out of hand they simply prevented it. And they aren’t banned, you can use addons such as dps meters in ff14 u just can’t talk about them.

- most MMORPGs are not on console so wouldn’t ban them for this reason either. MMORPGs are dominantly a pc genre of game.

- unfair advantage would indicate these players are in competition to you, otherwise there isn’t a advantage against you. You can’t group play or talk to these players as there’s no cross platform play.

- we shouldn’t lose out because of you. This doesn’t affect you at all as it has no impact on your gameplay.

- the servers are barely stable, and on console they are even worse. Introducing addons into the servers would break the game further.

Generally in most genres people on pc get it easier. That’s just how it is. Don’t blame pc or ZeniMax for this. It’s actually the console companies that don’t put the tech into these to allow such features. And us not ZeniMax should be held accountable for that.

We as pc players should not be punished for what a console is unable to do.

It’s about time we all stop shouting about features taken away from players. And concentrate on what actually affects us in the game. As this litterally doesn’t impact you.

And stop with this crap about “if it was intended it’d be in the game”

Why would ZeniMax pay people to do something the community is willing to do for free? Like honestly your aware addon creators aren’t paid right? This is free things given to a community. This sells pc versions of the game... they aren’t there because ZeniMax know they don’t need to bother.

Modding and addons have become huge in TES games. And have kept them alive to this day. ZeniMax and Bethesda likely intentionally leave these QoL fixs out because the playerbase will produce them.

WoW doesn’t have DBM inbuilt yet blizzard have admitted they balance their raids around players use of the addon.

MMORPGs don’t build addons. They leave players to that. And yeah that’s gonna cut consoles off that market. But this is no different to every other mmorpg on the market.

This has no impact on you. It isn’t crossplay. It’s not a advantage, because it means nothing to be more progressed then you while being on another platform. This game has no esports surrounding it. There’s no competition. “Are we entitled to addons being on pc?” Yes we are. It’s become the norm to use addons in MMORPGs. And just because a completely different culture disagrees doesn’t mean we should change ours.

Addons should be in the game, people shouldn’t lose things because there’s platforms that can’t take advantage of them

In this mindset Why not remove keyboard and mouse compatibility from FPS’s because it’s widely believed to be easier to aim with?

Platforms don’t offer the same things. You pick the one u want, we are all open to buying any of the platforms. No ones refused the right to play on the platform they want.

Couldn't take anything you said seriously after your first paragraph lol. "Add-ons can be used but you just can't be talked about" so if you mention it and get in trouble it is obviously against their rules lol SMH.

And as far as advantages go, it is an advantage. There is an advantage for me to play on PC instead of console. WE ARE ALL PLAYING THE SAME GAME HERE, except PC has a better version. Yep but no advantage you say eh?

Edit to.say, instead of complaining about losing your add-on is the same as us console players saying all those great quality of life add-ons should be implemented into the game to improve quality of life of the game. Whenever we say we should get them PC players always say no go play on PC if you want them. Why not just put them in the base game so no one needs add-ons? Logic right? And then PC players get mad when console players are in their thread having an opinion, you guys always have an opinion on us and it is always about how WE chose to play on console and don't deserve a better game, logic right there.

One when I said this, no your not allowed to talk about having these addons it’s to stop people discussing dps in game or being toxic towards a player for lower dps. They’re allowed however.

Let’s start at the top so u can understand.

- addons are created by players. Zenimax does not have rights to them. And to take them on would cost em extra staff to develop them as they can’t just take outside work.

- consoles aren’t build with the extra stress addons can have on its system. Ur putting your console at risk demanding this.

- putting addons into the fixed game would increase the requirements to play the game itself. Which would cause many players to be suddenly unable to play the game where they currently can.

Your method not only has the chances of causing consoles to get broken by content which isn’t quality controlled.

It also completely disables some players to play the game by adding more contribution to the game demanding more from pc

It leaves wider wholes for bugs and problems to occur which could cause the game to go offline more regularly.

But puts real people out of a job in addon creating so the company can employ randoms to do the same thing costing the company more money and unsystematic of more time on instead of content,

Because you decided to play on a console which has never in any game supported the use of addons or mods.

It was a decision. Just as I decided to play on pc and am punished by the fact to play the same games as you will require 100x more for me as pcs aren’t built to run every game releases on it unlike a console. But you don’t see me complaining you get things cheaper then me do I?

Does this do more damage then worth? Yes.

Take your complaints to your console provider to introduce support of addons. This will allow all of this without forcing 100s of mods actively changing the way we want the game.

Your idea forces addons onto players. Not only this but 100s of addons.

This gives options to addons usuage to use.

The problem is your platform doesn’t support the addons, not that the game restricts you as the games never denied you addons.

So your telling me zos isn't capable of building the "add-on features" into the base vanilla game? I am not stupid I played PC games before and know how add-ons work, but zos needs to improve quality of life of this game by implimemting add-ons into the base version of their game. If they did that then you wouldn't be losing features like you are right now.

And not talking about add-ons in ff14 is the same as saying they aren't suppose to be used lol. If I have to use a keyword like "calculator" to have someone know I want a DPS check means they are not supposed to be used 😉

StabbityDoom

If you have felt the effects of the loss of the addons, please let ZOS know how it has affected you here in this thread. It's important we focus on it.

for me - 1. I am now intensely bored.
2. I have no idea how much I'm selling.
3. I'm worried about my guild which was unable to figure out a system to handle this week, or even bids.
4. I'm concerned that if this lasts more than one week, some guilds will fail. (losing a trader for two-three consecutive weeks kills almost every guild.)
5. I'm thinking about leaving, and thus, not investing in the crown store for things I otherwise would. I set my account to 30 days, which previously unthinkable.

What about you? I'm sure that's not all, but those are some.

Grollok76

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Ardan147 wrote: »

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srfrogg23 wrote: »

KyraCROgnon wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Hm... call me a "purist", but if you need an addon just to use the game mechanics, then it's a bad mechanic.

If the devs didn't include it as a feature, then it wasn't intended.

iirc, ZOS excuse for a lot of missing basic functionnalities (like mini map for exemple ...) has always been "we allowed add-ons , so just make your own" . If the game had a rich interface, we could do without them, but it has never been ZOS politic to improve on gameplay when they could have unpaid volunteers do it !
So your sentence is completely wrong : a lot of features should have been in game but weren't included to cut cost because they hoped add-on makers to fill the gap.

And, that stance, 5 years ago, was wrong. It's time for them to rethink that strategy. This is a multiplayer game. What I do affects other people and vice-versa.

Just because they were thinking of cosmetic changes with addons, doesn't mean that they intended for players to use addons that give them advantages over other players.

That original philosophy was not intended to give players carte blanche freedom to do whatever the heck they wanted to do.

FOR THE LAST TIME, addons do not give players unfair advantages over other players, because there is nothing to stop the other players from using them!

That said, the game out of the box is barely playable. The guild store interface pre-Wrathstone, just to provide an example, was COMPLETELY unusable. It did not even constitute a finished, sales-worthy product, period. Awesome Guild Store patched it up so that it was actually even somewhat usable (even if there were glaring limits to the extent to which any addon could patch such an obviously defective product).

Master Merchant takes data that can already be viewed under Guild History, and does in seconds what it would take a human HOURS or even DAYS to do by hand. It, along with other tools, makes it POSSIBLE for a large trading guild to have alternative sales requirements instead of mandatory dues, as the game itself provides no facilities for tracking the sales (and purchases) of individual members. (And even tracking the payment of guild dues is far more time consuming without addons, which any console GM could tell you.)

And lastly I would bet that the PC players who use addons are far more likely to be subscribed to ESO+, and spend far more in the crown store than those who don't use any addons; so if ZOS was to kill addons they might as well shut down the game entirely for PC.

If you hate addons that much then go play on console. (Though I for one would like to see console players get access to addons in some form, if ZOS could somehow work out something with Sony and Microsoft. At the very least provide some data manipulation tools to sort of replicate the function of MM and Shissu's Guild Tools)

For the sake of seeing some genuine improvements to this game, I hope they do not allow addons ever again. They need to fix the system itself, not rely on 3rd party software to "fill in the gaps".

If you really think they are able to fix anything in this game, you obviously haven't been paying attention. We are talking about the people that actively break more and more parts of the game whenever they touch it.

Seriously, get a grip.