Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Commancho

Silver_Strider wrote: »

All the complaining about Incap being OP with its Defile/Stun components. Little did the salt miner know, ZOS can always make the ability 1000000% more OP when they try and nerf it.
I'm having a good laugh at this.

High direct damage, Defile, Stun, 20% more damage against target. That's all for 70 Ultimate. Very balanced.

technohic

usmcjdking wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

It's on the wrong skill, more importantly it's on the wrong class if it's going to be anywhere in the game.

This. Should not be on the class that has the ability to engage when they want to then also prevent spells for 3 seconds.

Thlepse

its funny how almost everything i predicted about the future of PVE and PVP has come true, back then people laughed and said "no way thats gonna happen its just not possible"

also i wonder what the reaction will be when more players realize they are shifting resources to focus on a new IP instead of priotizing ESO xDDDDDDDDDDDD

but hey dont feel bad zenimax, youre "killing it!"

theres a hint in the last line if you dont know which article im referring to

fred4

templesus wrote: »

Can comfortably say this game will be getting uninstalled if this goes live. They shouldn’t even wait until next week, that silence needs to be removed IMMEDIATELY.

CORRECT!

Insco851

K, figured out the counter play... make incap spec bow slow 450ms with that loud ass animation that you love to help all the players dodge roll the bow with...

fred4

xaraan wrote: »

The changes to incap are the best way for zos to figure out who they should make take a step back from the dev team and work on smaller stuff. Whoever had this bright idea is not the person that will be good at balancing this game and it's even scarier that someone not only thought this up and pitched it, but then it skated right by the rest of the team to make testing. Granted, it is just testing, but some ideas aren't even worth the waste of time and work to test.

THIS! It is incomprehensible this could make it beyond someone's fevered dream.

iCaliban

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Btw. I get the impression that most of the mag based characters would want this single target ultimate ability to cost 500 ulti points and had a description "does nothing".

People are obviously not objective here. Remember when Sorcs had their rune cage undodgeable burst combo somwhere around Summerset ? Non of them was like "you know ZOS, you gave us this and it is slightly OP" - all of the were like:
"it is totally fine" (yes back then changes went to live server, despite the outrage. Here we have ppl who probably did not even tested it on PTS and already we have a DEV answer to the outrage).

So, if you were to be as much objective as possible (and not biased ofc) - what would you propose ? Immunity to silence after 3 seconds ? Or what ? Keep in mine that Incap is not a skill or spamable. It is a single target melee ultimate, that can be dodged or blocked.

This is complete horse manure. Overwhelming feedback on PTS was "undogeable/unblockable CC from range is too strong" dozens of pages of it. Plenty of mag sorcs thought it was too strong. No reasonable player thinks rune cage should be reverted.

Rikumaru

This patch was looking good outside of nerfing NB's in the wrong areas. Now they mega buff stam nb, one of the strongest specs on live. And ontop of that the zergers got their wish and got race against time nerfed. This patch is suddenly looking from great to kinda meh. also 11 pages in like 3-4 hours. Don't think I've seen an outcry so large and fast before on this game. Not even the 1s cast time shields.

Sandman929

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

And I thought it couldn't get more funny.

EtTuBrutus

This is why pvp il in this game will never be an esport, which limits financial support to the developers, which hurts players.

You want twitch viewers? Streamers?

Balance was slowly improving, this is nearly as bad for pvp game balance as a no cooldown cloak. What a joke.

Gnortranermara

These people are completely bonkers. Just like last patch, it looks like they have the competent team member(s) make most of the initial changes, [snip] takes over during PTS. I'm getting whiplash from the awesome-change/insane-change roller coaster.

[Edit for bashing.]

Jhalin

Reave = better than Mangle, puts Incap on par with Soul Harvest’s utility

3s Silence = completely unbalanced. Can’t even use any ults or synergies when Silenced. If the stun is so bad to have then just add defile at 120 ulti instead


Tbh just add reave to the base ability so it’s a 20% amp and reave (moderate damage and utility)

valeriiya

The problem with the 3 seconds in PvP is that lag usually adds 1-2 seconds anyway, there's no button smashing your way out of this

Universe

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

A wise decision
Even without live testing, I can imagine it will be OP in its current state XD.
A counter play to this could be to make the silence shorter, like 1.5 seconds(a bit over average time it takes for a player to break free from a stun) or make the silence as a projectile which can be blocked but not dodged, much like Meteor but in this case the damage will come before and not after

Sanguinor2

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Btw. I get the impression that most of the mag based characters would want this single target ultimate ability to cost 500 ulti points and had a description "does nothing".

People are obviously not objective here. Remember when Sorcs had their rune cage undodgeable burst combo somwhere around Summerset ? Non of them was like "you know ZOS, you gave us this and it is slightly OP" - all of the were like:
"it is totally fine" (yes back then changes went to live server, despite the outrage. Here we have ppl who probably did not even tested it on PTS and already we have a DEV answer to the outrage).

So, if you were to be as much objective as possible (and not biased ofc) - what would you propose ? Immunity to silence after 3 seconds ? Or what ? Keep in mine that Incap is not a skill or spamable. It is a single target melee ultimate, that can be dodged or blocked.

First of all, many People including the actually good sorc mains agreed on summerset pts that rune Cage would be too strong as unavoidable cc on a class that has high burst with delayed curse and wrath which can go off in 1 second.

Second, there is a something between incap costing 500 Points and doing Nothing as you put it and it costing 120 (on the class that has one of the best ult gens), giving you a 20% dmg amp, it doing high burst and disabling the ability bar of every mag Player for 3 seconds all the while not counting as cc so if you dodgeroll spam (your only real counterplay) you will be out of stam for the cc that will follow.

In fact letting incap Keep the Sustain passive (on a class that is among the highest Sustain classes so it doesnt even Need that) and having it still do high burst and add 20% Damage dealt (one of the strongest debuffs in the game that is not purgeable btw) would still be plenty strong for a 70 cost ultimate. We could also swap aedric spear ult with death stroke, then you can see how much better nightblades low cost ult is in both pve and pvp.

Towards your Point that incap can be blocked, it will not matter with the current Iteration of it, since most likely the silence will go past block and you are still stuck being able to only dodgeroll and hold block and drain your stam for the inevitable cc that will follow after.

You yourself seem to not be very objective or unbiased, what mag class do you have a Vendetta against that justifies every mag class getting destroyed as acceptable collateral Damage?

Most People are being very objective when saying that a rather cheap ult on a high ult gen class disabling all abilities off ca. 50% off the playerbase seems rather overpowered, idk why you deem this to be acceptable, guess you are a stamblade main that hates magsorcs or something like that?

I would propose that we very quickly Forget About the silence on incap and Keep the Sustain passive and leave it as is otherwise, incap has Always been overloaded, Maybe its time for it to actually behave like a 70 ult cost Damage ultimate and not apply, cc and multiple very strong debuffs?
@Tommy_The_Gun

code65536

Even if you completely walk back this change, the fact that this change even survived the concept stage speaks volumes and is yelling at us that this is a dev team that simply cannot be trusted.

fred4

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

So you are going to pile a fix upon a fix? You're insane. Own up to your mistake and revert.

Ariades_swe

https://youtu.be/t1oXYI1EYQs

Worst change to a single ability in the history of the game according to this streamer.

bigelle.x3_ESO

Terrible change.

Minno

they might butcher incap or offer a better buff to the nightblade/necro somehow lol.

wheem_ESO

Insco851 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Make it breakable.

Then it’s just a stun.

Which is fine.

No, in that case it's worse than a stun because it affects Magicka builds disproportionately. Stamina builds will still have the vast majority of their toolkit available to them, and get CC immunity when the Silence runs out. Meanwhile, Magicka builds either break free or die. If break free is to be the "counter," either change it back to a stun or do something else entirely.

fred4

HackTheMinotaur wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

The counter play would be making silence respond to CC break/immunity BUT this is a waste of a CC for a nightblade. This means we cannot stun or fear after using our primary ultimate. I’d prefer Soul Harvest.

Unless you make it like pre-murkmire Total Dark. CC immunity did not apply until after the total dark was broken so you could cast the ability and then immediately CC. If you did this though then Incap->Fear would be literally the only NB combo worth doing. No way to save your CC till later.

It feels like a bad change either way.

Hang on a second. Incap stuns you right now. You have to break free, before you can do anything. If you make the negate breakable, all you've done is balanced the game against magicka characters. They WILL have to break, just like now, whereas a stamina character may decide to dodge roll. What's the point? Buffing stamina characters by giving them more options?

grannas211

Ariades_swe wrote: »

https://youtu.be/t1oXYI1EYQs

Worst change to a single ability in the history of the game according to EVERYONE that wants even a semblance of balance

FTFY

Bosov

Booo

This was such a cool change which was also totally lore related and because some people cry it is already looked into to be reverted/changed?

When my guildmates and i do roleplay events we use the /playdead when we get hit by incap but this change would remove the necessity for this (immersion breaking) action. All our members did a /cheer when we read about this change. Not a /laugh but a /cheer. This is how happy we were with this change. A /cheer is really something.

Personally I think that if this change wont make the live server my whole roleplay guild will stop playing this game or atleast will stop supporting Zenimax by cancelling our subs and/or stop buying things from the crownstore. Zenimax already took away our bosmer steathpassive which was a HUUUGEE no no for the roleplay/lorelovers community (atleast in the community im in, i dont know about the other communities). This change not making it into live could be the tipping point to quit eso and look for another game.

Any complaints? *incaps crying complaining forumuser* now you are silenced and cant complain anymore.

Thanks for reading. May the divines bless you with more ideas like this (lorefull) incap change.

Hymzir

Just finished reading PTS patch notes, and when I spotted this thing in the notes, my first thought was: "Well that's a death sentence to every magicka character in PVP."

My second was that there's 'prolly a feedback thread on this brilliant idea. And lo and behold there is, and it's already over 10 pages.

This is such pure LOL. I mean seriously, how on earth did this get past the initial idea? How the hell did it get past the combat team? How on earth was this thing implemented without anyone realizing what a stupid idea it is?

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Maybe you should've though about that before you went ahead and coded this change. And good luck investigating counter play option, cause there are none to a silence that sticks to you, except dumping your mag build and going stamina.

Insco851

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Make it breakable.

Then it’s just a stun.

Which is fine.

No, in that case it's worse than a stun because it affects Magicka builds disproportionately. Stamina builds will still have the vast majority of their toolkit available to them, and get CC immunity when the Silence runs out. Meanwhile, Magicka builds either break free or die. If break free is to be the "counter," either change it back to a stun or do something else entirely.

Yea I agree actually. I meant it’s just a stun in that case which means... why? Just revert to a stun. “Which is fine”

MirkoZ

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't get it. Don't sorcs have a 12 sec ult that silences all enemies in it ? And deals damage ?

The only difference is you can't roll out of incap strike and it only affects one person. But also sorc ult affects multiple people and has a higher cost.

How often is incap strike front bared for the regen to be effective? Wouldn't dawnbreaker be more common on front.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

My god, sorcs did that again ! Remember the cast time on shields that ZOS proposed some updates ago ? And all mag characters (mostly sorcs since shields) cried so hard that it created an Ocean on Sahara Desert ? Well.... it seems that they did that again.

Yep, I've been reading forums very consistently for the last half-year, and it's first time ever that answer from ZOS's chief comes so fast. People may cry about NB dominance in population, but this is all BS, everybody knows that Magsorcs are in real influence here maybe Todd H. is secretly playing and has a magsorc..

Fan fact, there are also magblades, magplars, magwardens and so on

lassitershawn

Wtf is this change...? If you get hit by this and you're on a mag toon all you have for defense is block or roll dodge spam for 3s with NO abilities to cast while you eat 20% buffed damage. Like wtf? If you stand there you're dead. If you block or roll dodge spam you're gonna come out of the silence still having taken huge damage and now you're out of stam, ripe for a stun that you can't break out of and another 3s of being able to do nothing. And if they're running bleeds or strong dots where all your rolling and blocking doesn't mean ***...? GL.

I barely even PvP and this is the SINGLE stupidest change I've ever seen.

Insco851

Bosov wrote: »

Booo

This was such a cool change which was also totally lore related and because some people cry it is already looked into to be reverted/changed?

When my guildmates and i do roleplay events we use the /playdead when we get hit by incap but this change would remove the necessity for this (immersion breaking) action. All our members did a /cheer when we read about this change. Not a /laugh but a /cheer. This is how happy we were with this change. A /cheer is really something.

Personally I think that if this change wont make the live server my whole roleplay guild will stop playing this game or atleast will stop supporting Zenimax by cancelling our subs and/or stop buying things from the crownstore. Zenimax already took away our bosmer steathpassive which was a HUUUGEE no no for the roleplay/lorelovers community (atleast in the community im in, i dont know about the other communities). This change not making it into live could be the tipping point to quit eso and look for another game.

Any complaints? *incaps crying complaining forumuser* now you are silenced and cant complain anymore.

Thanks for reading. May the divines bless you with more ideas like this (lorefull) incap change.

Thanks for the laugh!

Sanguinor2

Bosov wrote: »

Booo

This was such a cool change which was also totally lore related and because some people cry it is already looked into to be reverted/changed?

When my guildmates and i do roleplay events we use the /playdead when we get hit by incap but this change would remove the necessity for this (immersion breaking) action. All our members did a /cheer when we read about this change. Not a /laugh but a /cheer. This is how happy we were with this change. A /cheer is really something.

Personally I think that if this change wont make the live server my whole roleplay guild will stop playing this game or atleast will stop supporting Zenimax by cancelling our subs and/or stop buying things from the crownstore. Zenimax already took away our bosmer steathpassive which was a HUUUGEE no no for the roleplay/lorelovers community (atleast in the community im in, i dont know about the other communities). This change not making it into live could be the tipping point to quit eso and look for another game.

Any complaints? *incaps crying complaining forumuser* now you are silenced and cant complain anymore.

Thanks for reading. May the divines bless you with more ideas like this (lorefull) incap change.

Well there is a good reason no game gets balanced around roleplaying.
Also if you do roleplay just playdead as soon as someone hits you with a 2handed Sword thats About as big as your character or shoots an arrow between your eyes or sets you ablaze with an Inferno staff, dont get why you are limited to incap for that?

If we can balance as per lore, can dks get an ability that physically shatters tamriel? Lore says they can shatter and alter the physical world.