Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Insco851

Ariades_swe wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Make it breakable.

Then it’s just a stun.

Which is fine.

Passifest

It's okay to make mistakes as long as you correct them. I believe in you ZOS

Tommy_The_Gun

robpr wrote: »

That could be fine with 200 ult, not freaking 120 and NB's ult gen. Sorcs have a small bubble that you can easily dodge out and it costs twice as much. And Sorcs dont generate ultimate faster.

It used to be 50
Then it used to be 70
Then they added 120 condition

10 patches later in 2025 it will cost 500....

Scarpion

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

How about you remove it? Counterplay shouldn't even be in the discussion. Jesus.

StShoot

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't get it. Don't sorcs have a 12 sec ult that silences all enemies in it ? And deals damage ?

The only difference is you can't roll out of incap strike and it only affects one person. But also sorc ult affects multiple people and has a higher cost.

How often is incap strike front bared for the regen to be effective? Wouldn't dawnbreaker be more common on front.

Well but you can counter the sorc ult by dodging out or smart movement ( it is still realy strong agaisnt magica chars) you cant do that against incap, stamblade is also one of the classest with the highest burst in the game so yeah that will be fun

Well... you can dodge incap - it is single target. Also you are no longer stunned by it... so you can just run away... just like you can walk out of negate. Besides - it is only 3 seconds. That is a very small window really. Sometimes server lag is worse than that tbh.

Small note:
On my stamina characters I run some magicka skills for utility. You know, purge and stuff. Maybe ZOS wants magicka characters to run at least this one stamina skill ? Idk to be honest what they are up to.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

My god, sorcs did that again ! Remember the cast time on shields that ZOS proposed some updates ago ? And all mag characters (mostly sorcs since shields) cried so hard that it created an Ocean on Sahara Desert ? Well.... it seems that they did that again.

Right but imagen having more than one nb on your heels, also i think no nb ever slotted incap for the stun, they either casted it from stealth (free stung+ mostly unblocked hit) or after they feared you

ToRelax

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't get it. Don't sorcs have a 12 sec ult that silences all enemies in it ? And deals damage ?

The only difference is you can't roll out of incap strike and it only affects one person. But also sorc ult affects multiple people and has a higher cost.

How often is incap strike front bared for the regen to be effective? Wouldn't dawnbreaker be more common on front.

Well but you can counter the sorc ult by dodging out or smart movement ( it is still realy strong agaisnt magica chars) you cant do that against incap, stamblade is also one of the classest with the highest burst in the game so yeah that will be fun

Well... you can dodge incap - it is single target. Also you are no longer stunned by it... so you can just run away... just like you can walk out of negate. Besides - it is only 3 seconds. That is a very small window really. Sometimes server lag is worse than that tbh.

Small note:
On my stamina characters I run some magicka skills for utility. You know, purge and stuff. Maybe ZOS wants magicka characters to run at least this one stamina skill ? Idk to be honest what they are up to.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

My god, sorcs did that again ! Remember the cast time on shields that ZOS proposed some updates ago ? And all mag characters (mostly sorcs since shields) cried so hard that it created an Ocean on Sahara Desert ? Well.... it seems that they did that again.

Magicka builds run dodge, block and break free, as well as any actual utility skills they can get their hands on for not too steep an opportunity cost. For example, Shuffle was very popular before requiring 5 medium armor pieces, forward momentum has been used on certain magicka classes despite requiring a suboptimal weapon choice, granting a useless buff and healing for next to nothing, and dark exchange is a staple on magicka sorcs.

Silver_Strider

All the complaining about Incap being OP with its Defile/Stun components. Little did the salt miner know, ZOS can always make the ability 1000000% more OP when they try and nerf it.

I'm having a good laugh at this.

TequilaFire

All this Sorc screaming sure would make a powerful dragon shout. lol

actosh

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/472854/the-new-soundeffect-for-incap#latest

Pls support this request for the soundeffect change

Tommy_The_Gun

StShoot wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't get it. Don't sorcs have a 12 sec ult that silences all enemies in it ? And deals damage ?

The only difference is you can't roll out of incap strike and it only affects one person. But also sorc ult affects multiple people and has a higher cost.

How often is incap strike front bared for the regen to be effective? Wouldn't dawnbreaker be more common on front.

Well but you can counter the sorc ult by dodging out or smart movement ( it is still realy strong agaisnt magica chars) you cant do that against incap, stamblade is also one of the classest with the highest burst in the game so yeah that will be fun

Well... you can dodge incap - it is single target. Also you are no longer stunned by it... so you can just run away... just like you can walk out of negate. Besides - it is only 3 seconds. That is a very small window really. Sometimes server lag is worse than that tbh.

Small note:
On my stamina characters I run some magicka skills for utility. You know, purge and stuff. Maybe ZOS wants magicka characters to run at least this one stamina skill ? Idk to be honest what they are up to.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

My god, sorcs did that again ! Remember the cast time on shields that ZOS proposed some updates ago ? And all mag characters (mostly sorcs since shields) cried so hard that it created an Ocean on Sahara Desert ? Well.... it seems that they did that again.

Right but imagen having more than one nb on your heels, also i think no nb ever slotted incap for the stun, they either casted it from stealth (free stung+ mostly unblocked hit) or after they feared you

This is what I imagine they will change, so it will not be "stack-able" if more than one NB will try to reapply it. So you will have 3 second silence and like x seconds of immunity for it if some other NB will hit you again.

Sanguinor2

Silver_Strider wrote: »

All the complaining about Incap being OP with its Defile/Stun components. Little did the salt miner know, ZOS can always make the ability 1000000% more OP when they try and nerf it.

I'm having a good laugh at this.

Nah we Always knew that an ability can be more op, but I atleast used to believe that common sense would stop the devs from implementing some stuff that is blatantly overpowered, but alas that doesnt seem to be the case anymore.
Really the only ability that couldnt be made more op for pvp would be a cyro wide aoe instant kill that is not avoidable by any means and has no cost and is avaiable to every build.

Azaduur

Silence is strong I agree, but when I read things like "don't discuss counterplay" all I see is "dont make me work to stay alive, just remove what will make my life difficult so that i dont have to deal with it myself." It makes it really hard to take seriously, I doubt theyll keep the silence on incap, they responded really quick to the outrage, i dont know what theyll do, there is only going to be one more round of changes before Elsweyr goes live. Really I'm just glad they got rid of Minor Mangle. I'd have traded Minor Mangle for this new "Reave" feature any day of the week, didn't need to silence in place of stun though, guess we'll see how it goes.

Insco851

I’m not sure what tactic you would even try to employ as a “counter” - sure let’s say you can break it- then it’s just a walking Stun... if that costs Stam to break... and doesn’t actually have CC cooldown.. you get feared right after...

We already saw the broken code of something similar with total dark where you could get double CC’d.

There’s no counterplay to be had. Just try again.

hunter937

Why not put minor vulnerability on the target instead of silence and keep the stun??

MartiniDaniels

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't get it. Don't sorcs have a 12 sec ult that silences all enemies in it ? And deals damage ?

The only difference is you can't roll out of incap strike and it only affects one person. But also sorc ult affects multiple people and has a higher cost.

How often is incap strike front bared for the regen to be effective? Wouldn't dawnbreaker be more common on front.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

My god, sorcs did that again ! Remember the cast time on shields that ZOS proposed some updates ago ? And all mag characters (mostly sorcs since shields) cried so hard that it created an Ocean on Sahara Desert ? Well.... it seems that they did that again.

Yep, I've been reading forums very consistently for the last half-year, and it's first time ever that answer from ZOS's chief comes so fast. People may cry about NB dominance in population, but this is all BS, everybody knows that Magsorcs are in real influence here maybe Todd H. is secretly playing and has a magsorc..

fred4

My subscription is up. Time to unsubscribe, if this goes live. I play melee magicka NB. I could partially benefit, but this change is insane. I can't even find the words to describe how grossly incompetent this is.

Ankael07

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Please dont make a blanket nerf to Silence. Negate is barely situationally useful right now

CatchMeTrolling

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

The fact that it needs to be investigated really shows you guys are either trolling or that out of touch with the game. It’s okay to say we made a mistake and are reverting the change.

JamesDX

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

The counter play is to remove it

Blinkin8r

hunter937 wrote: »

Why not put minor vulnerability on the target instead of silence and keep the stun??

*Major

Mayrael

Wolfahm wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS showed long ago they don't care about magicka classes in general. We are recieving nerf after nerf. Magicka sets sucks when compared to stamina ones. They have nerfed magicka ONLY (outside of being vampire) way to stay mobile to 2s. They gave stamblade FREE piercing mark allowing them to disable most important skill of their magicka counterpart completely for free. Now they are giving them OP incap. Healing ward got nerfed long time ago. Shade soon will be broken for over a year.

Nah... I'm done, even if they revert some changes I'm sick and tired of fighting every single patch for survival. Each patch they came up with some "brilliant" ideas making game only worse. Glad I didn't pre-ordered Elsweyr.

PS. No you can't have my stuff.

Playing a magsorc and crying about survival/being under powered in 2019. LOL

Yes fighting for survival because if we wouldn't fight we would have cast time shields, no way to stay mobile etc. etc. I'm talking about every single patch reaching levels of stupidity that shouldn't be possible, if not the players common sense this game would be a complete trash long time ago. But I'm to tired to do this every few months.

They will revert that change but what about the rest sheit they have made? What about future not-so-bright ideas? You really believe it's the last time? This situation repeats every patch.


You want balance? So give the soul harvest (second morph of incap) stamina silence, and make that reapers mark disables roll dodge for 5s. You don't won't to play with me like that.

ccmedaddy

Blinkin8r wrote: »

hunter937 wrote: »

Why not put minor vulnerability on the target instead of silence and keep the stun??

*Major

lol no

Numil

What are you expecting to make pvp "better" with a stupid silence after using ulti ? Basicaly what hapening in cyro right now, u have all time a lot nb or whatever pop on u and put ult like incacpiting strike, and u will not able to cast magicka skill for the 3 next sec with NO counter against it...that gona make the pvp more unplayable and no more funny.

Plz don't do that.

MellowMagic

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

How about we make a "silence" but for Stamina abilities instead of Magicka abilities.

We could call it disarm, if theyre going to put silence on incap then they better introduce this debuff on a low cost ult too.

Tessitura

You know, this is a symptom of a problem a lot of fantasy mmo's have been facing for a long time... Assassin's are probably the single most difficult thing to balance and keep class flavor. The class flavor of them is inherently unfair, thats the whole idea behind them, they play dirty and kill you fast. This doesn't work for balanced or sports like competitive play, it can't you cant keep the flavor and have it perform in a balanced or fair manner, I think they have no place in these games, but everyone wants them so we have to deal with them. You are not gonna find a solution you like, just go back to defile and give up on it, people could counter it before and it punished people that were not ready for it, plus it also hurts stam builds instead of just overly crushing magicka builds... The is half useless and half OP.



[/quote]

Well but you can counter the sorc ult by dodging out or smart movement ( it is still realy strong agaisnt magica chars) you cant do that against incap, stamblade is also one of the classest with the highest burst in the game so yeah that will be fun[/quote]
Well... you can dodge incap - it is single target. Also you are no longer stunned by it... so you can just run away... just like you can walk out of negate. Besides - it is only 3 seconds. That is a very small window really. Sometimes server lag is worse than that tbh.

Small note:
On my stamina characters I run some magicka skills for utility. You know, purge and stuff. Maybe ZOS wants magicka characters to run at least this one stamina skill ? Idk to be honest what they are up to.

[/quote]

Here is the issue, its melee with little broadcasting animations, sound, or time to react, so dodging before it hits is mostly up to chance, and once it hits, where are you gonna run? It follows you and mag toon can get maybe one dodge roll out if they are lucky enough to have the stam, and even then.... they are already on top of you so they will just hit you while you run and probably kill you. This is kind of funny for all the magsorc mains out there, god knows the pet builds need some humbling, but all other mag build get crushed by this too and probably more harshly as well. it will be harder for none sorc magbuilds to recover after the silence is gone then the sorc who still has pets out they can LOS with, and can bolt away if they manage to survive. If you want magsorcs to get theirs, then root for a rework on their end so it only effects them.

FlamingBeard

JondarKorric

PureEnvelope35 wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

TheNightflame wrote: »

elfantasmo wrote: »

Patch 5.0
Death Stroke has been notorious for being a very potent Ultimate. We wanted to retain this ability's identity as a mark for death on your target, helping the Nightblade excel at assassinating high priority targets while reducing some of the over bearing nature it enables.

Patch 5.0.3
Incapacitating Strike: This morph no longer applies Minor Mangle or Stuns the target when cast with 120 or more Ultimate. Instead, it now Silences the target for 3 seconds when cast with 120 or more Ultimate.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler , @ZOS_Gilliam - Could you please explain how this is in anyway making the skill less potent and less overbearing? Also can you confirm whether it can be CC broke or not?

If you go live with this change Necro will not be used, there will be 100v100v100 NBs in PvP.

Necro WILL be used, health cost class purge.

Well this explains everything. Magicka Necromancers will be the only magicka class that can counter the new incap lmao.

Counts as a spell though so it gets negated ;-;

Silence only affects magicka cost abilities. Expunge, Expunge and Modify, and Hexproof cost health not magicka and as such aren't affected by a silence.

Tommy_The_Gun

Btw. I get the impression that most of the mag based characters would want this single target ultimate ability to cost 500 ulti points and had a description "does nothing".

People are obviously not objective here. Remember when Sorcs had their rune cage undodgeable burst combo somwhere around Summerset ? Non of them was like "you know ZOS, you gave us this and it is slightly OP" - all of the were like:
"it is totally fine" (yes back then changes went to live server, despite the outrage. Here we have ppl who probably did not even tested it on PTS and already we have a DEV answer to the outrage).

So, if you were to be as much objective as possible (and not biased ofc) - what would you propose ? Immunity to silence after 3 seconds ? Or what ? Keep in mine that Incap is not a skill or spamable. It is a single target melee ultimate, that can be dodged or blocked.

Sriivah

Every single change to Nightblades this patch has been really, really dumb. And here I thought that getting mitigation that will be worthless in pve and hilariously broken strong in pvp on a dps ability would be the dumbest thing that ZOS did to my main this patch - and then they went and gave Incap silence. 3 seconds of a character being a punching bag means they're just dead, unless their attacker is a complete noodle. I like the idea earlier in the thread of giving incap heal absorption - something like 2-3k heal absorption on incap instead of stun+defile would be fine.

HackTheMinotaur

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

The counter play would be making silence respond to CC break/immunity BUT this is a waste of a CC for a nightblade. This means we cannot stun or fear after using our primary ultimate. I’d prefer Soul Harvest.

Unless you make it like pre-murkmire Total Dark. CC immunity did not apply until after the total dark was broken so you could cast the ability and then immediately CC. If you did this though then Incap->Fear would be literally the only NB combo worth doing. No way to save your CC till later.

It feels like a bad change either way.