lordrichter wrote: »
Facefister wrote: »At this point, it doesn't matter whether it's P2W or not. There is a problem about leveling another character, in this case it's the need of farming a tremendous amount of Skyshards. Instead of adressing this problem with ingame elements, ZoS decided to slap a "package" on their store. A band aid which costs money.
MakeMeUhSamich wrote: »Holy Donut Holes, Batman. Just add a bloody Class Change Token already and be done with it.
Lol! I think this is really the secret heart of things.
It appears most people aren't deciding their stance based off of the strict definition of what is P2W. Many are picking their stance off of wanting the convivence, then erroneously justifying their positions.
Many, many want those Class Change Tokens. They were told "no" by ZOS who does not wish to implement them.
Then those many hear about a possible future feature where they can simply and permanently unlock Skill Points for all of their alts. I'm sure more than a few instantly realized the potential in this... by buying enough of those, they'll never need those Class Change Tokens. They'll be able to buy enough skill points to be able to delete characters and create new ones on whim without the need to ever farm skill points again. While I'm sure many would love such a thing, and it is exactly the end point of where allowing the permanent purchase of Skill Points would end, I'm equally sure it would not be a good thing for the health of ESO.
Woah woah woah. You're making a huge assumption here.
I never said this was a good thing, and I never said it's something I wanted in the game, convenience or not. I won't use it (I am disabled and play this game to help distract me from pain... so, well, I don't want anything to be quick. I take my time). I just take issue with people throwing the phrase P2W on every cash shop situation.
Out of curiosity, why do you take issue with it? Recognizing something is pay-to-win does not mean you take any particular position regarding the ethics of such business practices. It does not equate to a condemnation or lack of approval. It often does, but it does not always. Clearly, many do not mind pay-to-win mechanics in games and have no ethical objections to it whatsoever.
Because I'm that pedantic ***.
In all honestly, I'm tired of the phrase getting watered down because it often does (and I might argue, should) have a very negative connotation. I am a sucker for clear concise communication.
Look, we're never going to agree that time = a gameplay advantage, especially when we're talking about hours spent (not months or years).
What we can agree on is that it's not a good thing for the health of the game overall.
FlyingSwan wrote: »God I wish the phrase "pay to win" would just go away, so many redacted throw the phrase out to describe anything they don't like that its lost all meaning.
Pay to win is when you can spend money to gain an advantage that can not be obtained through regular gameplay PERIOD. To describe anything else as pay to win is an intellectually dishonest attempt to label something you don't like as being inherently wrong.
You are certainly free to dislike the idea of being able to buy skyshards, but it is unequivocally not pay to win.
The problem is, there is no multilaterally agreed definition of the term, you've merely articulated one definition of the term. I could find equal numbers of documented definitions for either of the two leading arguments. People are free to choose definitions, and without any taxonomy, those definitions are equal.
When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots.
“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players.
I don't know about you but the moment I hear "better experience" the first thing that comes to mind for me is the Crafting Bag players get when they have an ESO+ sub. Even if you choose to disagree that one is P2W, it's certainly selling the solution for a manufactured problem.
KhajiitFelix wrote: »Can you achieve it in game? Yes so it's not a p2w.
SacredEarth wrote: »Making us pay for the work we have already done? *** ridiculous if you ask me. ZOS is straight-up greedy. Not sure how much longer I want to support this company and its buggy af game...
So perfect cloudrest gear is ok in store?KhajiitFelix wrote: »Can you achieve it in game? Yes so it's not a p2w.
SacredEarth wrote: »Making us pay for the work we have already done? *** ridiculous if you ask me. ZOS is straight-up greedy. Not sure how much longer I want to support this company and its buggy af game...
Correction: allowing us to pay if we want to skip doing the work on additional characters.
No one is making you. And the work isn't done on the alt, which is the whole point. So you can do it the normal way, or you can pay to speed up the process just like with mount training.
I'm pretty surprised that so many of you are shocked that this became a crown option. Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I saw it coming from a mile away and even said as much in a couple different threads on this very subject.
Razor thin line exploiting the fact that account bound and character bound features are not consistent.
I am also very torn because I dislike this idea on principle but would rather ZOS make $$$ on the razor thin line than not make money and be unable to deliver new content. Also, as I've stated before, anything that keeps people from having to re-play content on alts impedes community growth.. as I level an alt I meet new people that I may not have met if my alt could skip content I played on my main. Sometimes do I feel like not doing it? Sure. Sometimes do I meet new, great players, even though? Yes, absolutely.