Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

xF1REFL1x

I only need it on one character... so I'm good. If you want to spend your money on this more power to you. I wouldn't though.

Tsar_Gekkou

No it's not P2W.

It's not pay2win at all. Skyshards aren't gated and can be gathered as soon as you start the game. People these days don't know what pay2win means. Pay2win would be like buying a weapon with massively overpowered stats that can't be obtained in-game.

generalmyrick

Yes it's P2W.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Pay2win or not....its VERY cash grabby and VERY player unfriendly...i honestly didnt expect zos would sink to EA levels

i agree with this...

we all wanted this so bad, to put it in the crown store and only ONE character? eh...lame. and i'm disappointed.

SugaComa

No it's not P2W.

Personally I would have preferred to see it as in hand gold to buy, but it comes as no surprise they'd try make money from it, but they're a business after all

Dragneel1207

Yes it's P2W.

make it so we can buy with gold as well

Froil

Other.

That's a tough one honestly...

While it only applies if you have a zone's full skyshards, it can easily be seen as P2W, because if you have that, starting characters can have so many skill points compared to others, making grinding less of a chore, but also potentially powering low level characters as they have access to more passives, skills and morphs at their level compared to someone that has just a few skyshards/skill points.

But it's also no more of a P2W scenario than DLC skyshards, that is, you can just farm zones for the skyshards just the same as before. It's more of a shortcut than a true "cash store" exclusive power boost that is only, ONLY, available from it.

I don't think it is P2W, but it definitely sits right on the line between the two. If it had a unique exclusive power that can't be gotten anywhere else, then absolutely.

idk

Other.

I am undecided about this at this time.

Games I have played before, and other games I have heard about, have sold max or near max level characters in the crown store. These are games that have reached a certain point in their life expectancy and a serious decay of player population since the early years of the game. ESO certainly fits the bill on both.

The difference here is two fold. First, ESO is easy to get an alt to lvl 50, which would put them the accounts max CP within the cap. However, there are other efforts needed to make them truly usable and a minimal number of SPs is one of them. So this fits the bill.

Second, I think this opens the door for Zos selling the mage guild, fighters guild, and more in the crown store to anyone who has fully leveled them before.

In the end, none of this makes a character stronger than what can be obtained in game which is a base requirement for P2W, so it is not really P2W. However, it does leave me with a bitter taste in my mouth because my experience with Cryptic, most notably Neverwiner, where they add huge grinds to increase player stats and a means to buy it in their cash shop. Ofc, this step with Zos falls far short of that. It is just something that taints my view a little.

So in the end I would probably have to say it is not P2W because it does not meet the core definition for P2W.

barney2525

Yes it's P2W.

Skyshards are skill points. They take effort by the character to obtain. They make a difference especially at low levels

You might as well just let every new character start with all the XP a different character accumulated.

Eventually, what would the point of playing the game be?

Runefang

No it's not P2W.

It's not pay to win but I'm still against it. You really don't need that many skill points to get a character to be useful and anybody that really needs it should have to earn it. The only reason I know of to have a lot of skill points is crafting, if you want your character to craft AND be able to PvE or PvP then earn it.

The convenience argument is a really gray area for me. You need to draw a line in the sand somewhere otherwise the slope just becomes slipperier and you will end up in P2W before you know it.

Facefister

Yes it's P2W.

zaria wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Can you achieve it in game? Yes so it's not a p2w.

So perfect cloudrest gear is ok in store?

According to many here, who parrot the same line about "not having an advantage", it would be ok.

OneForSorrow

Yes it's P2W.

I don't like it at all but I always felt that catch up in a game like this should still involve immersing yourself in content.

I think if you got the achievement for a zone's skyshards alts should be able to find scrolls that will activate those skyshards while doing quests/chests/dungeons. So like if I have all the Skyshards in Summerset an alt in Morrowind could be doing a delve and find scrolls connected to summerset skyshards.

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

Facefister wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Can you achieve it in game? Yes so it's not a p2w.

So perfect cloudrest gear is ok in store?

According to many here, who parrot the same line about "not having an advantage", it would be ok.

Exactly. If it's not a better gear, it's fine. Not an advantage. After all, you can buy carries with gold and you'll get the gear too. No issues at all.

JumpmanLane

Crap I’d pay for mage’s guild and Undaunted to carry over from one toon to the next. I couldn’t care less about skyshards.

If nothing else MAGE’S guild. Nothing was so boring as leveling up that.

Vandril

No it's not P2W.

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Absolutely.

You are paying real-life money, for combat power/effectiveness in ESO. That is by definition, P2W.

Things like mount speed/capacity/stamina are a convenience item. Things like research scrolls are a convenience item. Things like XP scrolls are a convenience item. None of those things directly relate to your in-game power, and capabilities in combat. Being able to create a new toon and pay to unlock ~400 skill points absolutely relates to and effects your in-game power.

What? XP scrolls absolutely directly effect your in-game power. They speed up Skill Point gain if you're below level 50, Skill Rank gain, and CP gain if you're at level 50. All three of those things directly effect your combat power.

And research scrolls likewise effect in-game power. They allow you to make better crafted gear for yourself, which is literally where most of your combat power comes from (from gear).

If that's your prerequisites for P2W, then ESO has been P2W for a very long time.

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

I have always said this - the ability to apply skyshard/mage's guild/psijic line to other characters - should be an option when you've unlocked the highest tier achievement. However, it should be something you simply unlock when you reach that goal. Allowing people with fiscal freedom to instantly access all skill points, while people without that same financial security will be unable to do so, is pretty crap in my opinion.

In short, it should be free. I absolutely agree with this...though I'm sucker enough to buy it anyway if it's priced well, because I just hate doing the Skyshard grind more than once that much. I will shamefully be part of the problem this time.

gresiac

Yes it's P2W.

This nonsens they can put in the crownstore but factionchange they wont do it....

DaGhostDS

Vandril wrote: »

If that's your prerequisites for P2W, then ESO has been P2W for a very long time.

Ever since they added the crown store with xp boost, yes it's P2W.

The whole "convenience" is just bs dev talk to try to justify it, doesn't change the fact that if it affect gameplay it's P2W.

f047ys3v3n

No it's not P2W.

Naw, pay to win is pay to make yourself more powerful than somebody else, not pay to get to exactly the same level a few hours quicker. I think it's a great idea. Who really wants to grind up the 12th character anyway. It's really kind of dumb that you have to grind up the umpteenth character because ZOS nerfed whatever you were using into dysfunctionality.

Casdha

Other.

I personally would like to see how long each person who voted yes or no has been playing this game.

I wonder if there is any correlations.

MLGProPlayer

No it's not P2W.

Facefister wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Can you achieve it in game? Yes so it's not a p2w.

So perfect cloudrest gear is ok in store?

According to many here, who parrot the same line about "not having an advantage", it would be ok.

How did you get from people being okay with minor convenience items in the crown store to people being okay with trial gear in the crown store?

Drdeath20

No it's not P2W.

Pay to win means that your character has something unattainable, in game, and thus makes you uniquely better because you spent real money on it.

This is just pay for convenience.

RavenSworn

No it's not P2W.

code65536 wrote: »

It's something that we've all clamoured for. And it's a good feature to have. But it should not be a crown store exclusive.

If there's an option to pay gold to some Mages Guild NPC to do it, that'll be fine.

You do know that you can still collect the skyshards ingame right? When did this become a crown store exclusive?

EchoirVarsoj

Yes it's P2W.

Hi

Of course is pay to win! Tell me how on earth someone who isn't paying for the Skyshard unlocks is going to achieve the same benefit than by playing the game normally. You just have to click and click and done, your character development positions itself far from these who didn't pay for the Skyshard unlocks.

And why does it matter? Well, there've been situations where "this" new feature is added to the game or "x" set, skill, etc. becomes "broken" (or devs add a new class) then the rich avid player comes with his/her new character and can start getting these "new unfair" benefits (even early if they are permanent) from doing pve, pvp, crafting stuff, etc., which translates into gold, AP, in-game goodies like titles, etc.
And then the poor, noble, victimized normal player comes after ending his/her skyshard hunting to be able to unlock these skills in order to complete that controversial new build to wreck these poor peeps in Cyro or try that gold fever or being able to unlock that new prestigious thing but -oh surprise!- it's has been already "fixed" so it's going to take him/her longer to achieve that in-game stuff or not being able to achieve it at all.

At the end of the day stuff from the Crown Store technically has to be P2W or not P2W, not a intermediate and deal with it! Skyshard unlocking is P2W, you can't achieve that by any normal means.
Bye

Edit.
I'm wrong in the last paragraph. But you will still have an unfair advantage if some builds become broken and you are one of the first to arrive there with a new character or something similar.

Monsieur

Yes it's P2W.

This all started with shortcut kits in games like Battlefield, many moons ago. It was pay to win then, and is pay to win now.

Now it’s become such commonplace to add paid for shortcut kits, that publishers are now able to make additional money over unique in-game items that genuinely can’t be obtained through normal progress. The definition of pay to win has shifted slightly, as the moral compass of publishers takes a turn for the worse.

Ultimately, when you are paying real life cash to avoid doing something in-game, you are paying to win. Its up to you to decide whether you want to do that as the publishers show no signs of stopping this trend.

TempPlayer

Other.

If you can get extra skyshards that is not available in-game by paying real money, that will be P2W. More so if the amount of skill point in base game is much more limited.
The current situation is just that ZOS trying their best to squeeze out as much money as possible from gamers' pocket. They missed that opportunity with account wide CP level and it will be damn if they made the same mistake of not charging for it on other area. So expect paying for account wide mount training, account wide gear research, account wide motif, account wide achievement, and so on.

HowlKimchi

No it's not P2W.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Pay2win or not....its VERY cash grabby and VERY player unfriendly...i honestly didnt expect zos would sink to EA levels

EA levels is selling a red dot for 2 bucks. EA levels is firing 100+ employees after having a record year sales-wise.

This is not EA levels.

TempPlayer

Other.

Also remember, just that you have more skill point early doesn't mean you can immediately activate all skill you want. You still need to level each skill line level till you can unlock the skill you want and level that skill 4 level to get to the morph.

Anhedonie

Paying for skyshards is paying for power. And it gives you an advantage in low level pvp.
But, you don't need that many skill points if you know what you're doing. Like, werewolves absolutely destroy people in low lvl pvp and you only need a handful of skillpoints, which you can get in an hour maximum. So while it's paying for power, it's not pay to win.

Jhalin

Yes it's P2W.

Paying to circumvent gameplay entirely (skyshards in store, gear in store) vs only speeding up results of gameplay (xp scrolls) are completely different

Cash store xp scrolls are equal to in-game xp potions, and the ingame comparable is widely available

Riding lessons require no gameplay and are instant purchase, making their method of obtainment similar to the cash shop’s. Same for bag and bank upgrades.

Skyshards require exploration, and at least some degree of combat. They are not simple pay-once-and-done purchases, and selling them for cash negates gameplay involved in the current method of obtainment. That’s the problem.

If the method was available in-game for a fair gold price, then it would be less controversial to offer cash purchases alongside that addition, but still a bad move

Michae

No it's not P2W.

Isn't it just making skyshardas account wide? So you don't have walk around every zone with each character just to get skillpoints? Remember, skyshard hunting isn't really a gameplay feature, it's just busywork. I already have a job, I don't need another one. You can hunt skyshards on each character and get to the same level as someone who paid (and had to find them at least once) so I don't see it as P2W. P2W is a case when the ONLY way to get some advantage is by paying. Here you just skip grind you've already done once.

sdtlc

No it's not P2W.

It is making skyshards account wide with your purse instead of the time.

It could be a way to be more powerfull in BabyPvP by enabling you to get the skillpoints without gaining experience while collecting them, you would still need experience to get the skills themself, so not sure, how this would influence the time you could stay in the <50 campaign.