Is Buying Skyshard SP Pay to Win?

SaintSubwayy

Yes it's P2W.

This should not end up in the corwnstore, but be a Free basegame feature.

Moneygrab once again, since many ppl will buy it to have enough skillpoints from the start on their necros.

Resulting in a timeframe (about 1-2weeks I guess), where its pay2win, because non payers dont have enough skillpoints farmed yet, to have the same effective combat power.

HowlKimchi

No it's not P2W.

EchoirVarsoj wrote: »

Skyshard unlocking is P2W, you can't achieve that by any normal means.

So what have you been doing to get skill points up to now?

Vildebill

Yes it's P2W.

I like this function, everyone with a lot of alts have wanted this for so long.

But Crown Store, ZOS please...

MikaHR

No it's not P2W.

HaruKamui wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Pay2win or not....its VERY cash grabby and VERY player unfriendly...i honestly didnt expect zos would sink to EA levels

EA levels is selling a red dot for 2 bucks. EA levels is firing 100+ employees after having a record year sales-wise.

This is not EA levels.

You mean Activision and CoD? Because not even EA stooped to that level.

But yeah, Skyshards should have been standard account wide thing for FREE from the start, this is just *** move.

Itzmichi

Blinkin8r wrote: »

My stamblade has every skyshard in the game. Yes that takes some work, but the edge my stamblade has against other people is because I've put so much time into that character specifically.
Say the new Chapter drops, Me and some other dude make Necros. I buy the skyshard pack, but he can't afford it. Because of this I have all the passives I could ever need, full access to any skills I want, I'm probably able to test all the class skills out before he is, heck I can even put skillpoints into Snakeblood and not care. This gives me a huge edge over this other player who didn't pay. Imo that's pay to win.

Pay 2 win would be if it's only attainable by buying it for cash and not having any other possibility to get access to it. At best its lame2pay.

If it's a good thing? No it isn't I'm still a firm believer that you should spent time with your characters and try to achieve everything on your own. It's a short cut and obviously a very strange business model.

Ohtimbar

No it's not P2W.

Pay to win describes advantages that can only be acquired by spending money. It is sleazy though. This should be a free feature to reduce boring shard grinding. It's pay to avoid terrible game design.

DaveMoeDee

No it's not P2W.

How many skill points does a character use on combat? The extra skill points are to allow people to also invest in crafting and other non-combat skills and to not have to respec every time they want to use a different skill.

It doesn't matter whether people call this P2W or not. All hat matters is that it does nothing to change the competitive balance since everyone is capped on the skills they can use in combat.

albesca

No it's not P2W.

Pay to win would be if the most efficient skills would be put in a crown unlocked skills-line or if you could pay crowns to enable a third weapon bar, paying to extend to a character the skill points you already unlocked on another one is just time saving.

And something that gets asked in the forum since the dawn of time.

I find it really strange that at the same time we cry that ZOS doesn't listen to the community and that ZOS does something that the community asked since forever, all this without even knowing the exact details of how they'll do that

ZonasArch

No it's not P2W.

EchoirVarsoj wrote: »

Hi

Of course is pay to win! Tell me how on earth someone who isn't paying for the Skyshard unlocks is going to achieve the same benefit than by playing the game normally. You just have to click and click and done, your character development positions itself far from these who didn't pay for the Skyshard unlocks.

And why does it matter? Well, there've been situations where "this" new feature is added to the game or "x" set, skill, etc. becomes "broken" (or devs add a new class) then the rich avid player comes with his/her new character and can start getting these "new unfair" benefits (even early if they are permanent) from doing pve, pvp, crafting stuff, etc., which translates into gold, AP, in-game goodies like titles, etc.
And then the poor, noble, victimized normal player comes after ending his/her skyshard hunting to be able to unlock these skills in order to complete that controversial new build to wreck these poor peeps in Cyro or try that gold fever or being able to unlock that new prestigious thing but -oh surprise!- it's has been already "fixed" so it's going to take him/her longer to achieve that in-game stuff or not being able to achieve it at all.

At the end of the day stuff from the Crown Store technically has to be P2W or not P2W, not a intermediate and deal with it! Skyshard unlocking is P2W, you can't achieve that by any normal means.
Bye

Can't achieve by normal means? I can't even... I... Huh...

Dude, I have, I think, 5 characters with all skyshards. Well... Except the ones behind Gates on cyrodiil. Only got all those in one. How's that unachievable by normal means? I'm not even ESO+! All your argument is kind of weird but this last bit is downright wrong. Sorry.

SoLooney

No it's not P2W.

It is not p2w, it is pay for convenience

P2w would be for example maelstrom weapons that are only available in the crown store or extremely hard to get trial gear in crown store

Turelus

No it's not P2W.

I am not going to lie, I am both surprised and impressed we're 13 pages in and haven't required moderation yet.

This is one of the most civil debates I ever recall seeing on these forums.

Lord_Eomer

Yes it's P2W.

Turelus wrote: »

I am not going to lie, I am both surprised and impressed we're 13 pages in and haven't required moderation yet.

This is one of the most civil debates I ever recall seeing on these forums.

or may ZOS decided to not bother and will avenge by releasing as Crown Store only

Alsaroth

No it's not P2W.

Not pay to win; but I don't really like the idea of it; reducing exploration and the like. Don't want it implemented, but I don't consider it p2w.

Tavore1138

Yes it's P2W.

I've answered 'yes' but in the strictest terms this doesn't buy 'winning' but it does allow the player with the deepest pockets to bypass 'the game'.

And I don't actually care that much if they do from a personal viewpoint.

What bothers me is that this will harm the game and people's enjoyment of the game.

Why?

Personally when I am not actively creating a new characters I forget what a rich world ZOS have created for us, how varied the zones are, the general good quality of the quests and the voice acting, the little off beat mini quests you encounter while roaming all over the map finding your Mage Guild books (will these be next?) and Skyshards.

I can appreciate that some people just want to jump into Trials or PvP and would probably pay for a crown store pre-made if they could.

I also appreciate no-one is forcing me to buy these packs.

But I worry that by being able to skip the game people will have less appreciation for it - it will become a do it once at speed followed by just buying their way to the end and they will actually reduce their own enjoyment.

I also know damn well that people in competitive guilds will feel pressure to buy these packs so they can quickly match the latest FoTM build so it may be that people will be buying them to keep up rather than simply for their own enjoyment.That's not cool.

The other aspect is QoL in the game - it's nice to inhabit a living world with other players zipping about doing their thing while you do yours. Makes it feel like an MMO not a solo game. But how many of those players you see are levelling a second, third or tenth character? How much quieter will zones become if the reason to visit them is removed? How will that impact on how new players perceive how popular and busy the game actually is?

mairwen85

Other.

Tavore1138 wrote: »

I've answered 'yes' but in the strictest terms this doesn't buy 'winning' but it does allow the player with the deepest pockets to bypass 'the game'.

And I don't actually care that much if they do from a personal viewpoint.

What bothers me is that this will harm the game and people's enjoyment of the game.

Why?

Personally when I am not actively creating a new characters I forget what a rich world ZOS have created for us, how varied the zones are, the general good quality of the quests and the voice acting, the little off beat mini quests you encounter while roaming all over the map finding your Mage Guild books (will these be next?) and Skyshards.

I can appreciate that some people just want to jump into Trials or PvP and would probably pay for a crown store pre-made if they could.

I also appreciate no-one is forcing me to buy these packs.

But I worry that by being able to skip the game people will have less appreciation for it - it will become a do it once at speed followed by just buying their way to the end and they will actually reduce their own enjoyment.

I also know damn well that people in competitive guilds will feel pressure to buy these packs so they can quickly match the latest FoTM build so it may be that people will be buying them to keep up rather than simply for their own enjoyment.That's not cool.

The other aspect is QoL in the game - it's nice to inhabit a living world with other players zipping about doing their thing while you do yours. Makes it feel like an MMO not a solo game. But how many of those players you see are levelling a second, third or tenth character? How much quieter will zones become if the reason to visit them is removed? How will that impact on how new players perceive how popular and busy the game actually is?

Zone quests also provide skill points. There's more than enough reason to revisit them -- unless ZoS adds 'Buy quest completes' to the crown store too... shhh... I don't think they're looking.

Merlight

mairwen85 wrote: »

Zone quests also provide skill points. There's more than enough reason to revisit them -- unless ZoS adds 'Buy quest completes' to the crown store too... shhh... I don't think they're looking.

I doubt someone who pays to skip gathering 15 skyshards in a zone will then go and play a quest chain for 1 skill point (not to mention they'd be finding skyshards along the way). They'll rather pay for 15 more skyshards from another zone.

Mayrael

No it's not P2W.

You can get all those skyshards by just playing, nobody limits you, this is pure convenience. My only concern is the price, remembering outfit slots this can be... disappointing. If we will have to pay 1500 crowns per zone, per character I truly doubt anyone will buy it except of Cyrodiil.

Tan9oSuccka

No it's not P2W.

No. As others mentioned: pay 2 be lazy.

I certainly won’t buy.

Turelus

No it's not P2W.

mairwen85 wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

I've answered 'yes' but in the strictest terms this doesn't buy 'winning' but it does allow the player with the deepest pockets to bypass 'the game'.

And I don't actually care that much if they do from a personal viewpoint.

What bothers me is that this will harm the game and people's enjoyment of the game.

Why?

Personally when I am not actively creating a new characters I forget what a rich world ZOS have created for us, how varied the zones are, the general good quality of the quests and the voice acting, the little off beat mini quests you encounter while roaming all over the map finding your Mage Guild books (will these be next?) and Skyshards.

I can appreciate that some people just want to jump into Trials or PvP and would probably pay for a crown store pre-made if they could.

I also appreciate no-one is forcing me to buy these packs.

But I worry that by being able to skip the game people will have less appreciation for it - it will become a do it once at speed followed by just buying their way to the end and they will actually reduce their own enjoyment.

I also know damn well that people in competitive guilds will feel pressure to buy these packs so they can quickly match the latest FoTM build so it may be that people will be buying them to keep up rather than simply for their own enjoyment.That's not cool.

The other aspect is QoL in the game - it's nice to inhabit a living world with other players zipping about doing their thing while you do yours. Makes it feel like an MMO not a solo game. But how many of those players you see are levelling a second, third or tenth character? How much quieter will zones become if the reason to visit them is removed? How will that impact on how new players perceive how popular and busy the game actually is?

Zone quests also provide skill points. There's more than enough reason to revisit them -- unless ZoS adds 'Buy quest completes' to the crown store too... shhh... I don't think they're looking.

I think the purchases are aimed at aleviating those boring grinds you need on every alt to make them end game ready.
Skyshards, Undaunted, Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Psijic, Alliance War.

Basically all the things people have complained are horrible to grind and wanted account wide. ZOS decided to give people to option to skip the grind, and monetise it at the same time.

VioletVience

No it's not P2W.

Its just time saver. There is no p2w.
Hope in next dlc ZOS introduce 50 Level Up cause leveling a new char is boring

AndrewQ84

No it's not P2W.

Its only pay to win if you havent collected it. Since you wouldn't be able to buy them unless you have already found them on at least one toon, you have already done the work. Its pay for conveniece. And if you really want to get stupid about things like that, then the being able to upgrade your horse through the crown store is pay to win since it give players an unfair advantage over those who have not bought them in pvp. They can move much faster than me on mounts. Its unfair. Sounds pretty stupid right?

Merlight

AndrewQ84 wrote: »

And if you really want to get stupid about things like that, then the being able to upgrade your horse through the crown store is pay to win since it give players an unfair advantage over those who have not bought them in pvp. They can move much faster than me on mounts. Its unfair. Sounds pretty stupid right?

Sounds about right. There is absolutely no way for a non-payer to have a fast mount with some stamina on a new character.

Hotel6

No it's not P2W.

doesnt matter how many sp u have. u have 5 skills + ult on 1 bar for every char.

WeyounTM

Other.

This one thinks it is just adds a choice to maybe skip some content if you are sick of collecting the stuff in the first place. There are always those around that say that grinding these things is boring and hence want to have the option to have them unlocked on all chars automatically, while there are others who think that a char should be leveled properly and who want to experience a journey with that char.
Personally this one is rather fond of leveling newborn Khajiits and showing them the beautiful world of Tamriel. So this one would not bother buying these things with his shiny crowns ;-)

Michae

No it's not P2W.

AndrewQ84 wrote: »

Its only pay to win if you havent collected it. Since you wouldn't be able to buy them unless you have already found them on at least one toon, you have already done the work. Its pay for conveniece. And if you really want to get stupid about things like that, then the being able to upgrade your horse through the crown store is pay to win since it give players an unfair advantage over those who have not bought them in pvp. They can move much faster than me on mounts. Its unfair. Sounds pretty stupid right?

Yeah, one could argue that buying mount upgrades is even more unfair. And for a few reasons:

1. With skyshards you're buying unlocking them account wide. So you have to collect them all at least once. You can buy mount upgrades on a brand new toons on brand new account no problem.
2. If you refuse to buy upgrades there's different consequences on that. With horse upgrades you're looking at 180 days of "grind" where you can get one point each day (well technically every 20 hours).
On the other hand you can get all the skyshards in one sitting if you're insane enough. Just go from one to another till you get all af them. And on brand new character on brand new account you have to do this, buying the upgrade won't help you, you have to grind them at least once.
3. You can check out new build and have the edge with bare minimum skill points no problem, the other skill points are just convinience so you don't have to go to a shrine each time you want to tweak something. I'd say that crafting skills eat up most of SP and they aren't immiedieately related to pvp. Mount speed and stamina can give you edge in the pvp and as I said in 1. you can't grind it quickly without coughing up some money.

AndrewQ84

No it's not P2W.

Merlight wrote: »

AndrewQ84 wrote: »

And if you really want to get stupid about things like that, then the being able to upgrade your horse through the crown store is pay to win since it give players an unfair advantage over those who have not bought them in pvp. They can move much faster than me on mounts. Its unfair. Sounds pretty stupid right?

Sounds about right. There is absolutely no way for a non-payer to have a fast mount with some stamina on a new character.

Pay for conveniece. Not for the win. I have always felt if you can get in game, then it's not for the win. It's for conveniece. And to be honest, after years of playing, I'd pay for some skyshards on new toons. It's a pain to gather them all up a 57th time.

Elwendryll

No it's not P2W.

I don't think I will use it, as I plan on doing everything again with my Necromancer anyway. I haven't done the alliance quests since several years, so I think I'm ready to replay the game.

On a side note. It's not remotely pay to win, there is nothing remotely pay to win on this game. Aria Games, go play games from them, go PvP there, and come back, enlightened on the true meaning and embodiment of the term Pay-to-win.

Cążki

Other.

FIrst of all this is the best what should they make for endgamers, this could help test some builds when you want to build pvp charr fast they shuld make it easier as possible. But if it needs to be buyed by CROWNS i dont thinks so there is milion onther option like achvment requiment only to make but why CRONWS ? stupid

MikaHR

No it's not P2W.

WeyounTM wrote: »

This one thinks it is just adds a choice to maybe skip some content

Brainless act of collecting a skyshard is not content. It is anti-gameplay and ZOS did THE worst thing and put it in the cash shop instead just being account wide unlock like it SHOULD have been from the START.

There should at least be a choice of paying with GOLD or CROWNS, just like skill/stat respec. But no, in new 2019. ESO EVERYTHING goes to cash shop ONLY.

Elwendryll wrote: »

I don't think I will use it, as I plan on doing everything again with my Necromancer anyway. I haven't done the alliance quests since several years, so I think I'm ready to replay the game.

On a side note. It's not remotely pay to win, there is nothing remotely pay to win on this game. Aria Games, go play games from them, go PvP there, and come back, enlightened on the true meaning and embodiment of the term Pay-to-win.

A lot of people here are completely ignorant and clueless and just about this and it is obvious they have never played a real P2W game.

Mojmir

No it's not P2W.

MikaHR wrote: »

WeyounTM wrote: »

This one thinks it is just adds a choice to maybe skip some content

Brainless act of collecting a skyshard is not content.

travel the world!! meet exciting NPC's!! get stuck in combat from puny mobs!!