Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

spacebandit

The change made no sense. They were wrong. It’s ok to be wrong. Just means they aren’t as smart as they think they are.

I guess we just have to live with their mistakes.

Koronach

I don't think I've every played an MMORPG that had this problem. If the passives didn't match the lore it would of been considered a mistake or bug and fixed. Of course ZoS would mess up and instead of admitting it and plan on fixing it, they just ignore it.

Jaraal

But you can bet the crown store is running like a Swiss watch! Lots of new shinies to buy this month.

Certainly gives credence to the widely held notion that their priority is maximizing profits, at the expense of neglecting gameplay and lore issues.

spacebandit

Jaraal wrote: »

But you can bet the crown store is running like a Swiss watch! Lots of new shinies to buy this month.

Certainly gives credence to the widely held notion that their priority is maximizing profits, at the expense of neglecting gameplay and lore issues.

I expect nothing less, however changes that effect the public opinion of the game can cause more damage than the crown store. I really have nothing against the crown store.

I feel like in the court of public opinion they are already wrong on this subject. And it makes no sense to fight us on it, it’s a simple change that wouldn’t effect dps.

BlueRaven

Jaraal wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?

I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.

Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.

Hi! That was me;

So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

And...

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

(As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
“Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

I left the conversation very pleased.

Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

At least it will be better then what we have currently.

Ok back to driving.

I still stand by this.
It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

spacebandit

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?

I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.

Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.

Hi! That was me;

So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

And...

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

(As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
“Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

I left the conversation very pleased.

Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

At least it will be better then what we have currently.

Ok back to driving.

I still stand by this.
It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

This is good and all but they shouldn’t have messed it up in the first place. It’s like a permanent strike on their record at this point. And I don’t mean like 3 strikes and you’re out. I mean like 20 or 30 strikes and I’m gonna be so annoyed with what I consider bad decisions I will no longer want to play. Exact same thing happened in wow for me.

Technically I am a refugee but I was here launch week too. Just not on this account and I didn’t stay very long. I was going to wait a couple months until the bugs were fixed and a couple months turned into a couple years.

I would actually like to redeem that account but I don’t know where to start.

Jaraal

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?

I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.

Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.

Hi! That was me;

So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

And...

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

(As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
“Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

I left the conversation very pleased.

Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

At least it will be better then what we have currently.

Ok back to driving.

I still stand by this.
It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

Thanks for filling that in!

I guess what I found dismissive about it is that nothing was said about restoring the Bosmer lore, or assuring that we would be (at least tied for) the best at stealth, as we once were. I saw only a mention of a possibility for everyone to become stealthy at some point.

Red_Feather

I would have changed it to something useful by now. Wonder why it's so quite.

Jaraal

Red_Feather wrote: »

I would have changed it to something useful by now. Wonder why it's so quite.

I would assume it's because they have no plans to fix anything about it, and they are waiting for us to get tired of talking about it.

BlueRaven

Jaraal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?

I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.

Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.

Hi! That was me;

So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

And...

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

(As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
“Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

I left the conversation very pleased.

Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

At least it will be better then what we have currently.

Ok back to driving.

I still stand by this.
It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

Thanks for filling that in!

I guess what I found dismissive about it is that nothing was said about restoring the Bosmer lore, or assuring that we would be (at least tied for) the best at stealth, as we once were. I saw only a mention of a possibility for everyone to become stealthy at some point.

Well Sunday is BE3 when we should see what the next update is about. Hopefully it will be a "guild" type dlc which has stealth involved in it.

thegreatme

BlueRaven wrote: »

Hi! That was me;

So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

And...

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

(As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
“Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

I left the conversation very pleased.

Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

At least it will be better then what we have currently.

Ok back to driving.

I still stand by this.
It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

On the one hand I want to say "Great! Give other people more stealth options so the playing field is more even!"

But on the other it still doesn't excuse that this flat out ignores 20 years of established racial lore, justifying it as "more lore friendly", first nerfing Bosmer, then nerfing NB stealth which is a class specifically built with stealth in mind, for a feature they haven't even begun publicly talking about outside a few curious prying people who can actually manage to make such events.

If they were going to nerf old stealth mechanics to bring in new stealth mechanics, they should have waited until the new mechanics were ready first, not nerf it all with no announcement or release of such hinting in sight and say "you can all just suffer until then".

And maybe that's just an oversight on their part. Or maybe its to make people so fed up with what they lost they JUMP on whatever new stealth system they have planned when it FINALLY releases as some kind of sales tactic. Who can say for sure? But it doesn't exactly sit great with me either way.

Jaraal

And giving everybody stealth still doesn’t fix the myriad of broken quest dialogues that talk about Bosmer being the masters of stealth, or of Argonian’s natural immunity to poisons, etc.

These things were not unbalanced in ESO for almost five years. Nothing would be hurt by restoring them, minus the 10% damage bonus. And if they still refuse to address it, then it only serves to reinforce the theory that they nerfed Bosmer to make Khajiit more attractive as the only real option for stealth, in order to break down the widespread resistance to playing non humanoid characters and sell more copies of Elsweyr.

Ratzkifal

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?

I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.

Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.

Hi! That was me;

So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

And...

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

(As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
“Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

I left the conversation very pleased.

Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

At least it will be better then what we have currently.

Ok back to driving.

I still stand by this.
It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

Thanks for filling that in!

I guess what I found dismissive about it is that nothing was said about restoring the Bosmer lore, or assuring that we would be (at least tied for) the best at stealth, as we once were. I saw only a mention of a possibility for everyone to become stealthy at some point.

Well Sunday is BE3 when we should see what the next update is about. Hopefully it will be a "guild" type dlc which has stealth involved in it.

Hopefully, and when it's not we have more to talk about in this thread. Keep the wheel squeaking!

Cundu_Ertur

What they need to do is get some players who actually CARE about the stealth systems. The 'class reps' or whatever they are called now couldn't give a rat's rotten rectum about the whole kit'n'kaboodle of stealth gameplay -- they are all about PVP, trials, 'raids,' and other end-game high level content. They will not have the slightest bit of constructive feedback for the stealth aspects of the game, except as it relates to Cyrodiil.

edit to add: to clarify, this is in response to thegreatme and bluraven talking about the upcoming (sometime, maybe) changes to the stealth systems.

MartiniDaniels

I just previewed Spear of Bitter Mercy, which as I know as represented visually exclusively in Morrowind... and ESO's version is completely different... so ZOS can't attend to lore even when selling items which suppose to call to people's nostalgia whatever.

Kalle_Demos

BlueRaven wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Koronach wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?

I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.

Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.

Hi! That was me;

So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

And...

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

(As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
“Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

I left the conversation very pleased.

Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

At least it will be better then what we have currently.

Ok back to driving.

I still stand by this.
It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

This is just so upsetting on so many levels. They butchered the Bosmer's identity in opposition to everything they set out to do with the racial balance but left Khajiit with stealth bonuses and even gave a boost to Imperials. Why? And were Bosmer players just expected to twiddle their toes in the meantime? For months? This could not have been handled in a worse way and it's infuriating how easily this all could have been avoided or even mitigated.

Players, including myself have quit the game over this and there are many Bosmer players who don't read the forums and are completely in the dark. The devs are aware of this thread, the valid criticisms and not one of them have decided to join in the dialog or address our concerns in any meaningful way. How is that BeTtEr cOmMuNicaTIoN coming along @ZOS_GinaBruno? As you said yourself:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.

Alaya

Jaraal wrote: »

And giving everybody stealth still doesn’t fix the myriad of broken quest dialogues that talk about Bosmer being the masters of stealth, or of Argonian’s natural immunity to poisons, etc.

These things were not unbalanced in ESO for almost five years. Nothing would be hurt by restoring them, minus the 10% damage bonus. And if they still refuse to address it, then it only serves to reinforce the theory that they nerfed Bosmer to make Khajiit more attractive as the only real option for stealth, in order to break down the widespread resistance to playing non humanoid characters and sell more copies of Elsweyr.

Given that it's intended that with all of the proper bonuses and with Khajiit's racial passives they can just go crazy on any stealth content, I'd say that it's spot on that they fully intended people to switch over to Khajiit for Elsweyr.

I doubt they'll address this anytime soon, there'll probably be another "racial balance" in like two years from now, and they'll wreck it even more so that people won't be playing as Bosmer anymore.

Ratzkifal

Alaya wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

And giving everybody stealth still doesn’t fix the myriad of broken quest dialogues that talk about Bosmer being the masters of stealth, or of Argonian’s natural immunity to poisons, etc.

These things were not unbalanced in ESO for almost five years. Nothing would be hurt by restoring them, minus the 10% damage bonus. And if they still refuse to address it, then it only serves to reinforce the theory that they nerfed Bosmer to make Khajiit more attractive as the only real option for stealth, in order to break down the widespread resistance to playing non humanoid characters and sell more copies of Elsweyr.

Given that it's intended that with all of the proper bonuses and with Khajiit's racial passives they can just go crazy on any stealth content, I'd say that it's spot on that they fully intended people to switch over to Khajiit for Elsweyr.

I doubt they'll address this anytime soon, there'll probably be another "racial balance" in like two years from now, and they'll wreck it even more so that people won't be playing as Bosmer anymore.

Who knows...
I still don't see the incentive for ZOS behind it. Especially when they are giving out race and name change tokens. I just hope we learn some more about potential upcoming stealth systems in BE3.
This change has been handled as badly as the proposed Sorc shield change - "change it for the worse now to make sense later at no ETA". I am doubtful that this new system would fix any of our problems but at least it could shift focus and highlight our concerns more once the debate around it starts.

Cundu_Ertur

Dunno if it's been posted before, but things like this just anger me.

Jaraal

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Dunno if it's been posted before, but things like this just anger me.

Must have been because as a Bosmer, she was able to detect the hidden Houndsmen as they approached, before anyone else could.












Oh, wait. NPCs "cant be bothered to hide"........ nevermind.

Ratzkifal

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Dunno if it's been posted before, but things like this just anger me.

Sometimes I think these things are meant to appease us and tell us "See? Bosmer are stealthy. Just close your eyes and pretend. That's what roleplaying is about after all!"

Jaraal

Incidentally, for the new folks, or those who don't know what the fuss is all about, here's the developer's quote about why 20 years of Bosmer lore was unceremoniously dumped for a minor PvP tweak:

Previously if you weren’t able to utilize Stealth, you lost a large portion of effectiveness that Wood Elves provided, so we’ve put the bulk of their power into their flat bonuses to Stamina and recovery. We also wanted to have more of a distinct play pattern on how Wood Elves and Khajiit both engaged with Stealth, so we’ve repurposed Wood Elves’ passive into one that deals with turning their proficiency of Stealth into a proficiency of hunting Stealthed targets. Additionally, since Stealth is not always engaged with at the same rate across the game, we added a small boon to when you activate Roll Dodge to help enhance mobility and offensive turning power in order to slip to safety or reposition for an unexpected attack.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5851010/#Comment_5851010


Of course, there are no "Stealthed targets" to hunt anywhere outside of PvP. But they gave us PvEers a "small boon" where, as now worthless thieves, we can burn our sprint stamina by roll dodging instead of actually sprinting, so in actuality we are even more likely to be caught by guards than before.


Disgusting.

anadandy

We also wanted to have more of a distinct play pattern on how Wood Elves and Khajiit both engaged with Stealth, so we’ve repurposed Wood Elves’ passive into one that deals with turning their proficiency of Stealth into a proficiency of hunting Stealthed targets. a bunch of crap.

Fixed it for them.

And I had such a laugh at that "Since Stealth is not always engaged with at the same rate across the game" nonsense - that's the closest they ever got to admitting detection was useless in PvE.

Spacefish2323

For something on the internet this is remarkably well argued and based on demonstrable observations. Didn't realize this was an issue for some players as I don't play Bosmer, but seeing it now, signed. Revert please.

Jaraal

anadandy wrote: »

We also wanted to have more of a distinct play pattern on how Wood Elves and Khajiit both engaged with Stealth, so we’ve repurposed Wood Elves’ passive into one that deals with turning their proficiency of Stealth into a proficiency of hunting Stealthed targets. a bunch of crap.

- that's the closest they ever got to admitting detection was useless in PvE.

Actually, it's not. A Community Manager actually posted that "NPCs can't be bothered to hide," in response to criticism of the new passive. I tried to find that quote, but but apparently that's been redacted, too.

Sylvermynx

Jaraal wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

We also wanted to have more of a distinct play pattern on how Wood Elves and Khajiit both engaged with Stealth, so we’ve repurposed Wood Elves’ passive into one that deals with turning their proficiency of Stealth into a proficiency of hunting Stealthed targets. a bunch of crap.

- that's the closest they ever got to admitting detection was useless in PvE.

Actually, it's not. A Community Manager actually posted that "NPCs can't be bothered to hide," in response to criticism of the new passive. I tried to find that quote, but apparently that's been redacted, too.

No surprise....

BlueRaven

Is this the quote you are looking for?

A quick note on why we changed the Stealthy passive: Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other. Additionally, since Sneaking isn’t a universal mechanic to the game (many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!), we wanted to take away some of the focus from the passive and build that into their other passives instead. We still want to support that game mechanic however, so we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives. (Emphasis mine.)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

Jaraal

And here's a quote from the same patch notes regarding the new Khajiit passives:

The Khajiit racial bonuses were the most under budget in terms of our stat density system, and as such, we wanted to make improvements on what they offered without making them the absolute best at one thing.

So, Khajiit are not the absolute best at Stealth now? They are the only race left with a stealth detection radius reduction. Even more evidence that PvE wasn't even considered in these changes. I invite any developer to log into my account and try stealing with my max Justice passives Khajiit thief, and then try it with my max Justice passives Bosmer, and let me know how that works out for you.

Jaraal

BlueRaven wrote: »

Is this the quote you are looking for?

Thank you, I was in error. I made an assumption and apologize for throwing shade where it doesn't belong.

BlueRaven

Jaraal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Is this the quote you are looking for?

Thank you, I was in error.

No worries from me!