The Elder Scrolls Online

Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.

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  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Cundu_Ertur wrote: »
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    You mean AUAEFQABS.

    I thing all this thing with bosmer stealth will become a meme.
  • Ratzkifal
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    MartiniDaniels wrote: »
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    I thing all this thing with bosmer stealth will become a meme.

    Well, memes can also bring change. I heard the anti-vax memes led to the number of vaccinations going up and after article 13, there was a hashtag to never again vote for the party responsible, which resulted in a 7% loss at the European election.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Jaraal
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    MartiniDaniels wrote: »
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    I thing all this thing with bosmer stealth will become a meme.

    There are several already posted in this thread.
  • MartiniDaniels
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    Well, I mean forum wide meme at least, or maybe meme in ZOS like expression about something they can't talk :D
  • Jaraal
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
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    They could admit they were wrong and tell us they'll see when they got time to fix it and what they'll do to add detection in a different way that feels more desireable :3.

    But what if they think we're wrong, and they're right? They obviously felt they were right when they sent it to test server, and they felt they were right when they ignored the outcries then and pushed it to live.

    I'd love to share your optimism, but I'm not yet convinced. The fact that they have ignored us completely since February and before is not a good sign.

  • Jaraal
    Jaraal
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    MartiniDaniels wrote: »
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    I thing all this thing with bosmer stealth will become a meme.

    Here's a good one from earlier:


    lxezi8zb6wm21.jpg
  • Kalle_Demos
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
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    They could admit they were wrong and tell us they'll see when they got time to fix it and what they'll do to add detection in a different way that feels more desireable :3

    Anyway, I feel like this was the last chance to convince me to preorder Elsweyr. The costume doesn't look very good on any of my existing characters nor do the horse and pet fit them. The crate could have been nice to have, but the rest is pretty useless anyway.
    If I haven't bought it now, then it's unlikely I ever will until Bosmer stealth returns.

    As I've mentioned before I'm not even a Bosmer player (Tho I did intend to make my Necromancer a Bosmer) but if Bosmer stealth were restored I would reinstall, resubscribe and preorder Elsweyr TODAY. Alas, as a long time paying customer of the ES series and ESO I expect a maintenance of quality and accountability and the shuttering of an entire decades long playing style for no reason is an egregious breach of both. ZOS will not receive another penny from me until that changes. No more twitch views, no more free advertisement to my friends, no more retweets or hashtags. Nothing.

    "If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn
  • SpankinDamob
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    I found this kinda funny
    https://imgur.com/gallery/K8Nrh05
    Edited by SpankinDamob on June 4, 2019 4:09AM
  • Jaraal
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    Kalle_Demos wrote: »
    if Bosmer stealth were restored I would reinstall, resubscribe and preorder Elsweyr TODAY.

    See, this is what I don't understand. They'd rather double down on a bad hand than fold and cut their losses. The number of people who have lost interest or outright quit over the disruption and revocation of their beloved playstyle is exponentially greater than the number of people who would be more interested in playing ESO because Bosmer are no longer stealthy, but are now debatably marginally better in PvP.

    I just don't get it. Especially from a company that values profit so highly.
  • ibeprofun
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    I'm glad this thread is still going.

    It's a mistake by the devs. Me, and many more, no longer play as a bosmer because of this change.

    Time to fix it devs.
  • max_only
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    Jaraal wrote: »
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    See, this is what I don't understand. They'd rather double down on a bad hand than fold and cut their losses. The number of people who have lost interest or outright quit over the disruption and revocation of their beloved playstyle is exponentially greater than the number of people who would be more interested in playing ESO because Bosmer are no longer stealthy, but are now debatably marginally better in PvP.

    I just don't get it. Especially from a company that values profit so highly.

    Like I said, they are counting on every furry and their significant other to sign up for talking cat land. The internet loves talking cats. No amount of Bosmer quitting is going to make a dent with the number of talking cat fans they are pulling in. Also I know Zos doesn’t respond to threats and boycotts. They’d rather dig in their heels. “You don’t have to be here” is their attitude. That’s why I’m not going to give up. This wheel will keep on squeaking.
    #FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
    #OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
    || CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
    ""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    I wanna be nails on a chalkboard!
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
    Stealth is to Thieves as Magicka is to Mages
  • Ratzkifal
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    Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Koronach
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Anyone here going to E3 and wants to represent our cause while the others are being nails on a chalkboard?

    I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.
  • Jaraal
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    Koronach wrote: »
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    I wish so I could tell them face to face how fail the changes were for both of our races. I would love to ask them how they could just ignore such epic lore fails. I don't understand how the damn loremaster can be ok with this.

    Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

    I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.
  • spacebandit
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    The change made no sense. They were wrong. It’s ok to be wrong. Just means they aren’t as smart as they think they are.

    I guess we just have to live with their mistakes.
    Edited by spacebandit on June 4, 2019 6:12PM
  • Koronach
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    I don't think I've every played an MMORPG that had this problem. If the passives didn't match the lore it would of been considered a mistake or bug and fixed. Of course ZoS would mess up and instead of admitting it and plan on fixing it, they just ignore it.
  • Jaraal
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    But you can bet the crown store is running like a Swiss watch! Lots of new shinies to buy this month.

    Certainly gives credence to the widely held notion that their priority is maximizing profits, at the expense of neglecting gameplay and lore issues.
  • spacebandit
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    Jaraal wrote: »
    But you can bet the crown store is running like a Swiss watch! Lots of new shinies to buy this month.

    Certainly gives credence to the widely held notion that their priority is maximizing profits, at the expense of neglecting gameplay and lore issues.
    I expect nothing less, however changes that effect the public opinion of the game can cause more damage than the crown store. I really have nothing against the crown store.

    I feel like in the court of public opinion they are already wrong on this subject. And it makes no sense to fight us on it, it’s a simple change that wouldn’t effect dps.

    Edited by spacebandit on June 4, 2019 6:49PM
  • BlueRaven
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    Jaraal wrote: »
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    Someone here said they asked a dev face to face at a conference about the issue, but they were so politely dismissive that nothing was actually discussed.

    I think very few would be argumentative in a one on one meeting. It's much easier to be outspoken in written media than in personal interaction.

    Hi! That was me;

    So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Ok I got to talk with someone after the show, they are aware of the thread. And they are working on something. Timetable unknown, I am guessing NOT in Elsweyr.

    Overall I had a pretty good day! I am leaving much happier then when I came in.

    And...
    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Ok let me tell you what was said and how it went down.

    While leaving, I bumped into the guy who is in charge of combat and pvp(?) he was on stage during the presentation.

    (As a side note, earlier I also had a nice short conversation with the guy in charge of dungeons except I did not recognize him as the guy in charge of dungeons. We had a nice conversation about... Dungeons.)

    Anyway, so after some pleasentries I said;
    “Ok, I have to ask, Bosmer and stealth.” Just like that.

    And he said he knew about the controversy and hinted at this thread. They want to open stealth gameplay to all and they are planning on a dedicated stealth skill line but it’s all very early. He was extremely nice about it and it did not feel like he was trying to push me off with a maybe. We had a short discussion about what the tree might look like and that was it.

    I left the conversation very pleased.

    Keep in mind that if/when they do implement the tree, bosmers and kahjits May loose anything that says stealth from their passives (this is my supposition not his). Which will even out the stealth issues. I know bosmers won’t be best in stealth, but in Skyrim (eventually) all races can be equally good in stealth and I ok with that.

    At least it will be better then what we have currently.

    Ok back to driving.

    I still stand by this.
    It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

    I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.
  • spacebandit
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
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    Hi! That was me;

    So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.
    show previous quotes

    And...
    show previous quotes

    I still stand by this.
    It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

    I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.
    This is good and all but they shouldn’t have messed it up in the first place. It’s like a permanent strike on their record at this point. And I don’t mean like 3 strikes and you’re out. I mean like 20 or 30 strikes and I’m gonna be so annoyed with what I consider bad decisions I will no longer want to play. Exact same thing happened in wow for me.

    Technically I am a refugee but I was here launch week too. Just not on this account and I didn’t stay very long. I was going to wait a couple months until the bugs were fixed and a couple months turned into a couple years.

    I would actually like to redeem that account but I don’t know where to start.
    Edited by spacebandit on June 4, 2019 7:27PM
  • Jaraal
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
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    Hi! That was me;

    So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.
    show previous quotes

    And...
    show previous quotes

    I still stand by this.
    It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

    I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

    Thanks for filling that in!

    I guess what I found dismissive about it is that nothing was said about restoring the Bosmer lore, or assuring that we would be (at least tied for) the best at stealth, as we once were. I saw only a mention of a possibility for everyone to become stealthy at some point.
  • Red_Feather
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    I would have changed it to something useful by now. Wonder why it's so quite.
  • Jaraal
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    Red_Feather wrote: »
    I would have changed it to something useful by now. Wonder why it's so quite.

    I would assume it's because they have no plans to fix anything about it, and they are waiting for us to get tired of talking about it.
  • BlueRaven
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    Jaraal wrote: »
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    Thanks for filling that in!

    I guess what I found dismissive about it is that nothing was said about restoring the Bosmer lore, or assuring that we would be (at least tied for) the best at stealth, as we once were. I saw only a mention of a possibility for everyone to become stealthy at some point.

    Well Sunday is BE3 when we should see what the next update is about. Hopefully it will be a "guild" type dlc which has stealth involved in it.
  • thegreatme
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
    Hi! That was me;

    So you don't have to scroll back to March here is the two pertinent posts I made.
    show previous quotes

    And...
    show previous quotes

    I still stand by this.
    It did not feel like a push off or they were dismissive, it felt ernest. And at the time it seemed like the earliest this "Stealth open to all" thing would be on the next major update after Elsweyr. Which is why I am very interested in what happens this Sunday, I hope there will be some new indication of what he was talking about.

    I am really crossing my fingers that we will get an indication of what he meant soon.

    On the one hand I want to say "Great! Give other people more stealth options so the playing field is more even!"

    But on the other it still doesn't excuse that this flat out ignores 20 years of established racial lore, justifying it as "more lore friendly", first nerfing Bosmer, then nerfing NB stealth which is a class specifically built with stealth in mind, for a feature they haven't even begun publicly talking about outside a few curious prying people who can actually manage to make such events.

    If they were going to nerf old stealth mechanics to bring in new stealth mechanics, they should have waited until the new mechanics were ready first, not nerf it all with no announcement or release of such hinting in sight and say "you can all just suffer until then".

    And maybe that's just an oversight on their part. Or maybe its to make people so fed up with what they lost they JUMP on whatever new stealth system they have planned when it FINALLY releases as some kind of sales tactic. Who can say for sure? But it doesn't exactly sit great with me either way.
    Thank You ZoS!:
    ◙ Blackfeather Court banker/merchant
    ◙ Gloam Indrik
    ◙ Re-release Gloam Wolf Mount
    ◙ Evergloam house

    Let's See It Happen ZoS:
    ◙ /honorloop emote
    ◙ cross-legged sitting emote
    ◙ Hagraven Polymorph
    ◙ Hagraven Houseguest
  • Jaraal
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    And giving everybody stealth still doesn’t fix the myriad of broken quest dialogues that talk about Bosmer being the masters of stealth, or of Argonian’s natural immunity to poisons, etc.

    These things were not unbalanced in ESO for almost five years. Nothing would be hurt by restoring them, minus the 10% damage bonus. And if they still refuse to address it, then it only serves to reinforce the theory that they nerfed Bosmer to make Khajiit more attractive as the only real option for stealth, in order to break down the widespread resistance to playing non humanoid characters and sell more copies of Elsweyr.


    Edited by Jaraal on June 4, 2019 9:23PM
  • Ratzkifal
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    BlueRaven wrote: »
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    Well Sunday is BE3 when we should see what the next update is about. Hopefully it will be a "guild" type dlc which has stealth involved in it.

    Hopefully, and when it's not we have more to talk about in this thread. Keep the wheel squeaking!
    Edited by Ratzkifal on June 4, 2019 10:11PM
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Cundu_Ertur
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    What they need to do is get some players who actually CARE about the stealth systems. The 'class reps' or whatever they are called now couldn't give a rat's rotten rectum about the whole kit'n'kaboodle of stealth gameplay -- they are all about PVP, trials, 'raids,' and other end-game high level content. They will not have the slightest bit of constructive feedback for the stealth aspects of the game, except as it relates to Cyrodiil.

    edit to add: to clarify, this is in response to thegreatme and bluraven talking about the upcoming (sometime, maybe) changes to the stealth systems.
    Edited by Cundu_Ertur on June 5, 2019 2:52AM
    Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.
    Stealth is to Thieves as Magicka is to Mages
  • MartiniDaniels
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    I just previewed Spear of Bitter Mercy, which as I know as represented visually exclusively in Morrowind... and ESO's version is completely different... so ZOS can't attend to lore even when selling items which suppose to call to people's nostalgia whatever.
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