Wood Elf/ Bosmer losing stealth passive, An open letter.
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Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cundu_Ertur: "The archetype is not the role, however. Roles are more about actually doing things, like doing damage (DPS), absorbing damage (Tank), healing damage (Healer), or utility (buff/debuff, CC, out of combat things like finding/disarming traps, picking locks, diplomacy, etc). "
One could argue that "thieving" is a role, not an archetype. In ESO this is especially true since there is no primary skill line for a "thief" class. The Nightblade -- which is near as you get to a Rogue archetype -- is probably the class one would choose if they wanted to play the most optimized "thief" (mostly because of its evasion skills).
I apologize for the lame answer before, I had just gotten home from work. As a follow-up, and hopefully a better answer, there is a distinct difference between the Thief archetype and the Thief class. Those are two different concepts. I think you are focused on the concept of the class.
A more full description of the archetypes from the trope page:
I seriously recommend glancing at the Elder Scrolls section under RPG's, too.Fighter: The Mighty Glacier if offensively-oriented, or Stone Wall if a defensive specialist. A physical powerhouse of prodigious strength, the fighter solves problems by dicing or smashing them to bits with mêlèe weapons. These include swords, axes, bludgeons, flails, the occasional Blade on a Stick, and of course good ol' fisticuffs but usually not much in the way of ranged weapons unless firearms are widespread, in which case the Fighter will pick automatic weapons and shotguns or just the Biggest Gun Imaginable. This class usually has the best armor as well, making for an effective tank. Sometimes has a special weakness to magic. Often associated with the color red.
Mage: The Glass Cannon if offensive or Support Party Member if defensive. In Fantasy worlds they are a mighty wielder of arcane or divine magic while in Science Fiction or "realistic" settings they have psionics or technology of similar power. In any case, the mage has a tendency to die if enemies look at him funny. This method of solving problems therefore tends to consist of blowing them up before they can get too close, or shaping the battlefield to their benefit. The mage has the ability to take advantage of elemental powers to exploit the enemy's weaknesses, and may also get a number of utility powers to bypass the stickiest situations. It's also possible for them to use their power to heal, making them The Medic. Mages tend to wield either weapons that enhance their abilities like a Magic Wand or essentially Emergency Weapons, usually a lighter weapon like a knife or handgun. They are often limited to use of light armor or no armor at all. Often associated with the color blue.
Thief: The Fragile Speedster. Quite a bit squishier than the fighter, though not as much as the mage, they get around this weakness by finding ways to avoid being hit in the first place. Their methods of solving problems typically involve sneaking by them, stabbing them In the Back, sniping them from a distance, or even talking to them. The weapons of choice are usually light weapons like daggers and handguns or ranged weapons like bows, sniper rifles, and throwing knives. Survival usually depends on stealth abilities, evasion/speed, weapon range, or a combination of these factors, rather than armor, though they'll still wear better armor than the Mage. Often associated with the color green.
(edited to fix the spelling of 'color.')
You are correct in one thing, however; the nightblade really is the only class that works well in the context of the thief archetype. This is, I think, a significant weakness. The TG DLC should have included active skills like the other guilds -- like a stamina-based stealth ability, other buffs and debuffs, and such. It is entirely possible to build a viable Fighter or Mage from weapon/staff and FG/MG/PO/Alliance abilities without slotting even a single class ability; however, this really isn't possible for thief-style gameplay. But this is a much bigger topic, and not really relevant to the matter of Bosmer sneak/stealth.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.10 -
Kalle_Demos✭✭✭✭✭As of this post there are 2.2k replies and 45.4k views. Nothing within the first 10 pages of the General Discussion forums comes close. Keep it up! #BosmerStealthNow
"If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn10 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kalle_Demos wrote: »As of this post there are 2.2k replies and 45.4k views. Nothing within the first 10 pages of the General Discussion forums comes close. Keep it up! #BosmerStealthNow
Let's hope ZOS realizes that having a big thread like this go ignored isn't making them look very good.
Or perhaps that's the reason why moderation still gets the big [ Z ], to make it appear like we got our answer.
I'm hoping that our persistence will be rewarded in the end as we have the facts on our side.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.8 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here’s the thing. Zos has a policy of not changing art assets once they go live in game as a result of the racial style redos. They should apply this precedent across the board. After 5 years they made a huge error removing a functionality for Bosmer and Argonians. The best policy is to modify not remove. Even if Bosmer got 2m instead of 3m because they want Khajiit to shine. Even if Argonian and Bosmer got a smaller number on their (now missing) resists. Modify not remove. Who wipes the board clean after 5 years and hundreds of dollars spent? @ZOS_GinaBruno#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom9 -
TelvanniWizard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All this would be outrageous, if ZO$ had ever cared about lore. But they don´t. Only care about money, not about product´s quality nor legacy.6 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Evereything that was written in that post
That was awesome. Wish I could give you 10 awesomes at once, but sadly I can only give you one. I know you're not farming them, but still, I would.Edited by Uryel on June 3, 2019 9:11AM3 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭You mean these now nonsensical quest dialogues are never going to be fixed? Oh boy. So much for credibility in storytelling.
I'm not sure what you mean there. The argonians talking about poison resistance when they have non ? bosmers talking about being stealthy when they are not ? Our characters being utterly stupid and oblivious to what's happening when anyone with an IQ above that of a rock could see it coming ? The fact we can kick Molag Bals's arse or just a zillion daedra in a dungeon, but can't for saving someone's life kill THAT one in a quest and have to bargain with it instead ? Dragons returning to Tamriel even though they have been extinct for 400 years, and in a thousand years everyyone in Skyrim will say "Dragons have been exctinct for OVER 1000 years" ? Every DLC quest starter seeking me everywhere ("Do you know how long I've been looking for you ?") even though I'm just a lvl 3 nobody fresh out of the tutorial ?3 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭So back on the subject of stealth. As you guys might know by now, I play a Bosmer Nightblade main. Stamblade to be accurate.
Elsweyr is a so-so update for me. Because Nightblade got nerfed for small group content, my damage + debuff skill only does damage now, my damage buff from the assassination line is gone and replaced by a defense buff (because obviously an assassin will try to buff their defense when preparing to strike a mark, hence the placement in assassination, I guess
)... As I mostly play duo with my wife who plays a magblade, I can notice the change : we're having a harder time. Not that bad, but but we definetely got nerfed. Again, the idiots from the combat team balanced *** for PvP (in previous update) and raids (in that one), entirely oblivious that most of the player base does NOT focus on those two things. Whatever.
The good part is the Darloc Brae set, though. I now run a Night Silence 5 pieces set for no mobility penalty in stealth, a 3 pieces Night Terror for +2 stealth radius, and a 4 pieces Darloc Brae for an additionnal +2 meters. That's +4 meters and no penalty, meaning I'm only 1 meter short of my former glory. Stealth gameplay is back on the menu.
Now of course, that means I have a magicka recovery bonus I don't care about from Darloc Brae, no effective 3 pieces bonus aside from stealth from Night Terror (as per usual), and basically not much of any sort of combat bonus from sets as a whole. I was used to some sacrifices for optimal stealth, but to that extent, it's new. Still, stealth is back on the menu.
I'm still saying it shouldn't be that extreme, though. Bosmers are stealthy, FFS.5 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So back on the subject of stealth. As you guys might know by now, I play a Bosmer Nightblade main. Stamblade to be accurate.
Elsweyr is a so-so update for me. Because Nightblade got nerfed for small group content, my damage + debuff skill only does damage now, my damage buff from the assassination line is gone and replaced by a defense buff (because obviously an assassin will try to buff their defense when preparing to strike a mark, hence the placement in assassination, I guess )... As I mostly play duo with my wife who plays a magblade, I can notice the change : we're having a harder time. Not that bad, but but we definetely got nerfed. Again, the idiots from the combat team balanced *** for PvP (in previous update) and raids (in that one), entirely oblivious that most of the player base does NOT focus on those two things. Whatever.
Not to mention the Bosmer Nightblades who, with (effective) stealth no longer being an option, gave up their Shadowy Cloak and respecced for the Dark Cloak self heal. The last class nerfs turned it from a burst heal to a slower HOT, which makes us even more vulnerable to getting burned down by PvP pressure or hard hitting bosses.
Just a sad state of affairs for Nightblade in general, and especially for Bosmer.
Edited by Jaraal on June 3, 2019 12:38PM4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
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Now of course, that means I have a magicka recovery bonus I don't care about from Darloc Brae, no effective 3 pieces bonus aside from stealth from Night Terror (as per usual), and basically not much of any sort of combat bonus from sets as a whole. I was used to some sacrifices for optimal stealth, but to that extent, it's new. Still, stealth is back on the menu.
I'm still saying it shouldn't be that extreme, though. Bosmers are stealthy, FFS.
But that still does nothing to restore lore, make quest NPCs make sense again, or make Bosmer thieves elite, as they used to be. My guy used to wear the 3 pc Night Terror and the Night's Silence set, plus he could equip the Shadowrend monster set that would proc a Clannfear to offtank a pursuing guard and reduce the damage he did to me as I escaped. But now he would have to give that up, never be as good as a Khajiit, and still be a worse thief than an Imperial with adding Darloc Brae? No thanks, he will stay retired.
Edited by Jaraal on June 3, 2019 12:39PM4 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Now remember wood elves are stealthy because they wear armor of dark elf (night mother), kahjit (Darloc), and Breton (night terror) origins. It’s in the lore somewhere I am sure.Edited by BlueRaven on June 3, 2019 12:33PM9 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
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Let's hope ZOS realizes that having a big thread like this go ignored isn't making them look very good.
Or perhaps that's the reason why moderation still gets the big [ Z ], to make it appear like we got our answer.
I'm hoping that our persistence will be rewarded in the end as we have the facts on our side.
Oh this topic is still going on? I mean this thread was ignored since it was first posted, you think they'll acknowledge it now months later after they have been silent? It would be an even bigger embarassment for them to talk about it now than to just keep ignoring it.Edited by Seraphayel on June 3, 2019 12:38PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not to mention the Bosmer Nightblades who, with (effective) stealth no longer being an option, gave up their Shadowy Cloak and respecced for the Dark Cloak self heal. The last class nerfs turned it from a burst heal to a slower HOT, which makes us even more vulnerable to getting burned down by PvP pressure or hard hitting bosses.
"Would you rather use a stealth passive that lasts 1 second, or a slow and weak heal over time ?"
Well, once more, they're giving us free skill points, it seems.3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Oh this topic is still going on? I mean this thread was ignored since it was first posted, you think they'll acknowledge it now months later after they have been silent? It would be an even bigger embarassment for them to talk about it now than to just keep ignoring it.
There is an ancient Bosmer proverb that states, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."11 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Oh this topic is still going on? I mean this thread was ignored since it was first posted, you think they'll acknowledge it now months later after they have been silent? It would be an even bigger embarassment for them to talk about it now than to just keep ignoring it.
This thread is not ignored. Class reps and some of devs are well-aware of this thread and issue with huge lore breach due to racial changes to bosmer. When and will they took any action? Idk, some other races are messed up as well, maybe they'll go for adjustments after initial khajiit's homeland sales wave will pass.5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »
This thread is not ignored. Class reps and some of devs are well-aware of this thread and issue with huge lore breach due to racial changes to bosmer. When and will they took any action? Idk, some other races are messed up as well, maybe they'll go for adjustments after initial khajiit's homeland sales wave will pass.
Being aware doesn't mean that anybody cares except the bunch of people posting here on a frequent basis. That's exactly the thing and hoping for a ZOS response after months and months of ignorance... I said move on four months ago but to still think something's going to change, knowing ZOS for quite some time now...PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thanks for the bumps, now we're at 74, just 26 more to go!Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.7 -
anadandy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anyone more eloquent than I am want to address Bosmer Stealth on the dev team AUA (ask us anything) going on at reddit right now?
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/welcome_to_the_elsweyr_update_22_aua/
Edit: NVM I see the comment now - all the way at the bottom and unanswered
Edited by anadandy on June 3, 2019 6:41PM4 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@anadandy I don't have reddit, so if you want to post that for me, I'd be okay with that.Here is a question for Brian and Leamon. Update 21 had the goal of bringing all the races in line in terms of strength while respecting the lore of previous games as well as ESO's own. What was the reasoning behind taking a core identity of the Woodelfs/Bosmer, namely stealth, and removing it completely from their passives? And why was it replaced with "detection" which has no uses in PvE and is unprecedented within the lore?
For clarification, I am not talking about the 10% damage from stealth but the radius. A lot of players feel like this change effectively limited our choices of "sneaky races" to exactly one, which is also against what the update aimed to achieve.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.4 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anyone more eloquent than I am want to address Bosmer Stealth on the dev team AUA (ask us anything) going on at reddit right now?
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/welcome_to_the_elsweyr_update_22_aua/
Edit: NVM I see the comment now - all the way at the bottom and unanswered
So, actually more of an AUAEFQABS (ask us anything except for questions about Bosmer stealth).Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.6 -
anadandy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah - I wish I had seen it sooner (darn work!). They seem not to have answered any questions posed in the last 45 minutes or so of the AUA.
Edit: I stand corrected, loremaster answered a question about Dwarves and one about Tonal resonators just before the AUA closed. I'm so relieved! /sEdited by anadandy on June 3, 2019 7:17PM4 -
Alucardmike✭✭✭Perhaps an open protest action at the E3?
The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They're not answering any questions about it because, what could they even say? There's no logical defense available for Hunter's Eye in it's current form. Even the straw man has packed his bags and is long gone for Oz.
Edited by Jaraal on June 3, 2019 7:53PM8 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They're not answering any questions about it because, what could they even say? There's no logical defense available for Hunter's Eye in it's current form. Even the straw man has packed his bags and is long gone for Oz.
They could admit they were wrong and tell us they'll see when they got time to fix it and what they'll do to add detection in a different way that feels more desireable
Anyway, I feel like this was the last chance to convince me to preorder Elsweyr. The costume doesn't look very good on any of my existing characters nor do the horse and pet fit them. The crate could have been nice to have, but the rest is pretty useless anyway.
If I haven't bought it now, then it's unlikely I ever will until Bosmer stealth returns.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.6 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, given that majority heard about this AUA only when it already ended...6 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Well, given that majority heard about this AUA only when it already ended...
You mean AUAEFQABS.Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.7
This discussion has been closed.