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Snipe, Earthgore, TimeStop and Cloak all need nerfs.

  • Haashhtaag
    Haashhtaag
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    You forgot Permafrost and Steel Tornado.

    Tbh I have no issue with perms because it’s an ultimate ability.


    I will say this about the other points.

    Snipe morph should not have major defile given how much damage the ability does. I think a good change would make it a minor defile.

    Timestop for the snare it does, how high the CC break is, and how cheap of an ability it is for what it does should cost more. I’d put it’s cost in line with rapids or purge(not efficient purge). Make people have to spec into a role to have to perform such a useful ability.


    Regarding cloak I would say leave as is with only one change. Suppress healing just as it does dots when cloaked.

    Earthgore should only proc on one person but should not remove ground based abilities, most especially ultimate abilities.
  • technohic
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    Haashhtaag wrote: »
    You forgot Permafrost and Steel Tornado.

    Tbh I have no issue with perms because it’s an ultimate ability.


    I will say this about the other points.

    Snipe morph should not have major defile given how much damage the ability does. I think a good change would make it a minor defile.

    Timestop for the snare it does, how high the CC break is, and how cheap of an ability it is for what it does should cost more. I’d put it’s cost in line with rapids or purge(not efficient purge). Make people have to spec into a role to have to perform such a useful ability.


    Regarding cloak I would say leave as is with only one change. Suppress healing just as it does dots when cloaked.

    Earthgore should only proc on one person but should not remove ground based abilities, most especially ultimate abilities.

    Your first 2 suggestions are flat out awful and would make things worse.

    Minor defile would make snipe even better on a stamblade to open, gap close, incap. Now you're down 45% healing in stead of 30 coming out of the stun and 1 more debuff to cleanse.

    Just increasing cost on time stop to be like Rapids will make it to where only big groups have it, which is the problem to begin with.
  • Haashhtaag
    Haashhtaag
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    technohic wrote: »
    Haashhtaag wrote: »
    You forgot Permafrost and Steel Tornado.

    Tbh I have no issue with perms because it’s an ultimate ability.


    I will say this about the other points.

    Snipe morph should not have major defile given how much damage the ability does. I think a good change would make it a minor defile.

    Timestop for the snare it does, how high the CC break is, and how cheap of an ability it is for what it does should cost more. I’d put it’s cost in line with rapids or purge(not efficient purge). Make people have to spec into a role to have to perform such a useful ability.


    Regarding cloak I would say leave as is with only one change. Suppress healing just as it does dots when cloaked.

    Earthgore should only proc on one person but should not remove ground based abilities, most especially ultimate abilities.

    Your first 2 suggestions are flat out awful and would make things worse.

    Minor defile would make snipe even better on a stamblade to open, gap close, incap. Now you're down 45% healing in stead of 30 coming out of the stun and 1 more debuff to cleanse.

    Just increasing cost on time stop to be like Rapids will make it to where only big groups have it, which is the problem to begin with.

    Only big groups are spamming timestop anyway. At least make it taxing on their resources.
  • Defilted
    Defilted
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    Lets just make everyone permanently invisible. This way no one has to fight each other except on the rare case you accidently hit something with your AOE.

    This will fix all the issues with snipe and getting Timestop spammed on you. This fixes all the cloak issues as well.

    ;)
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    #NightmareBear
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    Fixing break free and health desync problems should be the priority, then re-examine skills when the in game counters actually function properly.

    I wonder if making time stop overwrite itself would help. If one person's time stop is cast right after the other's (spamming), then the first one is erased and replaced with the second if the second one overlaps the first. This would hopefully reduce the number of bubbles able to fit into a small space.
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • FrankonPC
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    I'd love to hear the counters to snipe, earthgore and timestop. The other thread's counter to earthgore was "run a defile tank". Having an entire build set up to counter a MONSTER SET screams of balance and counterplay.

    The defile version of snipe is a great counter for earthgore though, so I guess I stand corrected.
  • jcasini222ub17_ESO
    jcasini222ub17_ESO
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    I just want to know if there is a way to turn off the visual of the bubble but keep the ground notifier. The bubble is visually taxing when being spammed, often times enough to cause me eye pain if your trying to protect a breach where it's being spammed.

    Also if you run into a NB that's all about cloak give it the sorc streak treatment. Just disengage and and ignore. It ain't worth the stress of running after a cloak bunny.
  • brandonv516
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    It's all about perspective.

    When I play I find Bleeds, Steel Tornado, and Permafrost OP.

    Earthgore needs a threshold change - 50% is wasted for many healers.

    Cloak I won't get into because I completely disagree.

    I agree with Snipe and Time Stop for two reasons:

    Snipe - Desync glitch. Other skills can act the same way but this skill is famous for it.

    Time Stop - It's buggy when you can easily waste all stamina attempting to break free.
  • templesus
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    Some changes proposed new on discord:

    Cloak is given the mist form treatment. There’s absolutely no reason for it to function differently.

    Snipe and Bow ult swap, with snipe now being an ultimate and bow ult being the Bow spammable as a channel similar to flurry. Drastically improves bow PvE DPS as well.

    Timestop heal negation and snare removed but the animation is sped up to compensate and the CC breaking of it needs to be fixed.

    Earthgore reworked as an AOE remove all negative effects when you heal an ally below 50%, healing component completely removed.
    Edited by templesus on January 30, 2019 3:51PM
  • Kuramas9tails
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    Snipe is the only one I will agree with.

    The rest......no.
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    • ZOS_Mika
      ZOS_Mika
      admin
      We have removed a handful of insulting, off topic, and unnecessary comments from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Thanks for your understanding.
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    • brandonv516
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      templesus wrote: »
      Some changes proposed new on discord:

      Cloak is given the mist form treatment. There’s absolutely no reason for it to function differently.

      Snipe and Bow ult swap, with snipe now being an ultimate and bow ult being the Bow spammable as a channel similar to flurry. Drastically improves bow PvE DPS as well.

      Timestop heal negation and snare removed but the animation is sped up to compensate and the CC breaking of it needs to be fixed.

      Earthgore reworked as an AOE remove all negative effects when you heal an ally below 50%, healing component completely removed.

      Just as long as it removes snares and CCs like Mist Form too.
    • jediodyn_ESO
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      Cloak is only overpowered when combined with the right ranged attacks. Cloak on a melee fighter is actually a much weaker defense than shields, wings, or block heals.

      You need a brain and any one ae to completely counter a melee stamblade using cloak. Even if you don’t have an ae, or one of the other half dozen anti-stealth mechanics, you just need a little timing to kill a melee stealth blade.

      Snipe + stealth is broken, but it’s more because of snipe than stealth.
    • Dr.NRG
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      templesus wrote: »
      On the Class discords (bar Nightblades of course) this seems to be the general consensus that all of these need nerfs and its been communicated to the class reps several times and we have hopes ZOS will listen to them.

      In light of recent posts however, I believe it necessary to compile this into the forums as well so ZOS can see that is is an issue here as well.

      Currently the aforementioned abilities do nothing but promote unskilled gameplay. There is no need to get better at the game, or learn to use your class effectively, when you can:
      1. Spam snipe from on top of keeps or in the back of zergs, which heal debuffs and constantly hits for 5k+ damage as well as desyncing the target.
      2. Cloak away from any fight you don’t think you’ll win.
      3. Not slot a heal for your group because you’re all wearing earthgore which will completely negate Ulti-dumps.
      4. Spam one ability over and over that’s CCs groups and negates healing.

      Not one of the four things requires an ounce of skill to operate in this game, and quite frankly, holds this game back in terms of skill:success ratio. Currently with these 4 specifically the game doesn’t reward you for being good and improving your skills, it actively rewards the opposite. This isn’t healthy for any game, period.

      Now, I already know this post will get a lot of hate because generally the forums contain a surplus of players who fall into these demographics, however I know that this has been discussed thoroughly with class reps on the discord’s and regardless I have faith that changes will come. This is moreso a compilation of some major pain points from the discords for the forum.

      @zos_ginabruno @zos_gilliam

      The only nerf cloak needs is to be disabled in duels in my opinion so you dont always have to change your build just cause you fight a nb. Open world it is completely fine and often very much needed for most builds. There are enough people running evil hunter, inner ligh, caltrops yaydyadayada...

      I agree 100% tho when it comes to high dmage 0 skill spammables like snipe and often even radiant opression (especially when both get combined. For radiant i think all it need is a bit shorter range cause too often get in situations where you are not close enouge go bash it (or there are a bunch of ground abilities so you cant go in) or you are not far away enough to out run it. Radiant is fine by itself but people samming it from the back of a zerg creates this problem.

      Anyway before nerfing any of these roots and snares need to be addressed first as these countibute a ton to these issues. I would hate snipe and other skills as much if I could actually move and do something anout it. But even on a templar most times you cannot out cleanse all this garbage.

      Edited by Dr.NRG on January 30, 2019 4:40PM
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    • templesus
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      templesus wrote: »
      Some changes proposed new on discord:

      Cloak is given the mist form treatment. There’s absolutely no reason for it to function differently.

      Snipe and Bow ult swap, with snipe now being an ultimate and bow ult being the Bow spammable as a channel similar to flurry. Drastically improves bow PvE DPS as well.

      Timestop heal negation and snare removed but the animation is sped up to compensate and the CC breaking of it needs to be fixed.

      Earthgore reworked as an AOE remove all negative effects when you heal an ally below 50%, healing component completely removed.

      Just as long as it removes snares and CCs like Mist Form too.

      Yes it would function the exact same, but added benefit to remove snares and now you would not heal nor get magic regen inside of cloak. I’m not sure what you mean by remove CCs, as you can’t use mist form while you’re CCed and cloak already makes you immune to CCs.
    • laissezfaire
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      1. Increase cast time and/or cost of snipe
      2. Increase marginal cost to cloak like streak and roll Dodge
      3. Remove the 'cleanse' altogether.
      4. Increase cost and remove snare.

      Edit: also, earthgore needs some sort of other Nerf besides just removing the cleanse but not sure what to suggest.
      Edited by laissezfaire on January 30, 2019 4:53PM
    • Ozby
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      Yeah lets nerf everything that's useful in PVE :(
      PC NA
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    • Dr.NRG
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      moltzdc wrote: »
      1. Increase cast time and/or cost of snipe
      2. Increase marginal cost to cloak like streak and roll Dodge
      3. Remove the 'cleanse' altogether.
      4. Increase cost and remove snare.

      Edit: also, earthgore needs some sort of other Nerf besides just removing the cleanse but not sure what to suggest.

      Remove cleanse? Are you insane? Dont allow new curse eater, yes but besides that cleanse is currently one of the most important mechanics in pvp. If you remove it you will both screw templars and slow down pvp even further. Why do you think so many people slot purge nowadays? Suggesting this you clearly have no idea what you are talking about...
      .
    • templesus
      templesus
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      Ozby wrote: »
      Yeah lets nerf everything that's useful in PVE :(

      Only one of the 4 that’s used in Endgame PvE is earthgore, and as someone who’s completed every vet trial in the game I can in fact say you do not need earthgore to complete any content in the game. It is in fact a carry in PvE.
    • Grumpsorc
      Grumpsorc
      Soul Shriven
      Give cloak a streak treatment.
    • Dr.NRG
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      Grumpsorc wrote: »
      Give cloak a streak treatment.

      That would be too rough on stamblades. Cloak would need to cost stam first before that could work.

      .
    • Jakx
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      Dr.NRG wrote: »
      moltzdc wrote: »
      1. Increase cast time and/or cost of snipe
      2. Increase marginal cost to cloak like streak and roll Dodge
      3. Remove the 'cleanse' altogether.
      4. Increase cost and remove snare.

      Edit: also, earthgore needs some sort of other Nerf besides just removing the cleanse but not sure what to suggest.

      Remove cleanse? Are you insane? Dont allow new curse eater, yes but besides that cleanse is currently one of the most important mechanics in pvp. If you remove it you will both screw templars and slow down pvp even further. Why do you think so many people slot purge nowadays? Suggesting this you clearly have no idea what you are talking about...

      I agree that there always needs to be counters to abilities but it does bring up an interesting discussion. Id rather get rid of cleanse mechanics because they hurt ball zergs more than anything else. I'm not in favor of the *** spam purge, spam aoe, move in a ball tactic that plagues Cyro. Im sure plenty are against this idea though because their AP/Hour from ball zerging might go down so it won't matter as they continue to run around thinking they're the epitome of skill in ESO pvp.
      Joined September 2013
    • brandonv516
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      templesus wrote: »
      templesus wrote: »
      Some changes proposed new on discord:

      Cloak is given the mist form treatment. There’s absolutely no reason for it to function differently.

      Snipe and Bow ult swap, with snipe now being an ultimate and bow ult being the Bow spammable as a channel similar to flurry. Drastically improves bow PvE DPS as well.

      Timestop heal negation and snare removed but the animation is sped up to compensate and the CC breaking of it needs to be fixed.

      Earthgore reworked as an AOE remove all negative effects when you heal an ally below 50%, healing component completely removed.

      Just as long as it removes snares and CCs like Mist Form too.

      Yes it would function the exact same, but added benefit to remove snares and now you would not heal nor get magic regen inside of cloak. I’m not sure what you mean by remove CCs, as you can’t use mist form while you’re CCed and cloak already makes you immune to CCs.

      There are two types of CC - hard and soft. I was referring to soft CC such as roots that immobilize.

      And as far as Cloak making you immune to CC, this is inaccurate (see Permafrost, Fear Traps, Time Stop, etc.).
    • kind_hero
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      Do you realise that cloak is the defining ability of the nightblade, especially the magicka nightblade?

      You keep asking to nerf the cloak to what end? Have you tried playing a magNB and found out that it is way to easy thanks to the cloak? What are your defences in BG as a magNB? You are a mage that can sneak, that's all, but a poor mage, because you lack any burst damage. I main a mnb and cloak does not save me that often, because it is so easy to counter!!! So I can't even imagine what will be fair play to you while fighting a STEALTHY class, the nightblade. Stealth and cloak is the reason I picked this class from the very begining, and at that time I did not had pvp in mind at all... just that cloak is a fun ability a trademark of the nightblade, a rogue/thief class in RPGs. So even if you keep spaming it, there are so many aoe's and dots that get you out of it, you can really use it effectively for a split second, then you really need act - either flee, or reengage in a new attack. But the problem is, once your enemies know you are around and using cloak, they activate their defences, pots, aoe spams, and act weary, so the cloak is not going to work for long.

      The whole skill tree of the mnb is imagined to put pressure on the target with snares and dots, but you do not have a burst attack like the stamblade has with snipe, you have to build it up hoping that by the time you get the bow proc your target is still in range or has not destroyed you. I am really wondering if you know what you are talking about, when you discuss cloak nerfs.

      So yea, snipe is bad because it is cheap, you do not need much skill to find a sweet spot and keep ganking people. But you can't also just nerf it to the ground, making snipe hit like a wet noodle. Snipers are usually easy to destroy if you get close to them because they fear melee combat, and are not prepaired for it. So each thing has a counter, and the nice thing about PvP is working to find out these counters, finding what works for you and getting better at it. Asking for nerfs on forums is not one of those counters.
      [PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter
    • NyassaV
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      I agree but seeing as magblade is on it's last leg ATM I don't see nerfing cloak as a good idea at all especially since there are many counters in existence. If magblade wasn't so crappy right now I'd be down to talk about cloak changes though.
      Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
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    • montiferus
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      Earthgore - I agree it needs a revise. It is a bailout mechanic for bad players

      Snipe - Even though I see this on my death recap more than any other skill I don't think it is the skill that needs changing per se more so the mechanics of how it functions. On Xbox I can't tell you how many times I go from near full health to 0 before I have any opportunity to react to 3-5 LAs. The desync this ability creates is pretty frustrating. If they could fix the desync I think the ability would be fine on its own.

      Timestop - Definitely a zergling skill. Perhaps an increased cost with spamming it? I mean I literally see groups where there are people who all they do is just continuously cast the ability. So odd people would enjoy pressing one button all day.

      Cloak - This one is hard because it can be either borderline useless or completely OP. I think all classes should have a defining skill and this is definitely the class defining skill for NBs.
    • templesus
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      NyassaV wrote: »
      I agree but seeing as magblade is on it's last leg ATM I don't see nerfing cloak as a good idea at all especially since there are many counters in existence. If magblade wasn't so crappy right now I'd be down to talk about cloak changes though.

      I actually play MagNB, and to tell you the truth if cloak was reworked to remove snares and given the mist form treatment I would prefer it to the current state it is in personally and actually slot it. Snares are my #1 weakness on magblade.
      kind_hero wrote: »
      Do you realise that cloak is the defining ability of the nightblade, especially the magicka nightblade?

      You keep asking to nerf the cloak to what end? Have you tried playing a magNB and found out that it is way to easy thanks to the cloak? What are your defences in BG as a magNB? You are a mage that can sneak, that's all, but a poor mage, because you lack any burst damage. I main a mnb and cloak does not save me that often, because it is so easy to counter!!! So I can't even imagine what will be fair play to you while fighting a STEALTHY class, the nightblade. Stealth and cloak is the reason I picked this class from the very begining, and at that time I did not had pvp in mind at all... just that cloak is a fun ability a trademark of the nightblade, a rogue/thief class in RPGs. So even if you keep spaming it, there are so many aoe's and dots that get you out of it, you can really use it effectively for a split second, then you really need act - either flee, or reengage in a new attack. But the problem is, once your enemies know you are around and using cloak, they activate their defences, pots, aoe spams, and act weary, so the cloak is not going to work for long.

      The whole skill tree of the mnb is imagined to put pressure on the target with snares and dots, but you do not have a burst attack like the stamblade has with snipe, you have to build it up hoping that by the time you get the bow proc your target is still in range or has not destroyed you. I am really wondering if you know what you are talking about, when you discuss cloak nerfs.

      So yea, snipe is bad because it is cheap, you do not need much skill to find a sweet spot and keep ganking people. But you can't also just nerf it to the ground, making snipe hit like a wet noodle. Snipers are usually easy to destroy if you get close to them because they fear melee combat, and are not prepaired for it. So each thing has a counter, and the nice thing about PvP is working to find out these counters, finding what works for you and getting better at it. Asking for nerfs on forums is not one of those counters.

      I play MagNB and I don’t use cloak. In fact, most MagNBs I know don’t use cloak. https://youtu.be/YuzJ2N2yg8w
      Edited by templesus on January 30, 2019 6:46PM
    • Wuuffyy
      Wuuffyy
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      Tasear wrote: »
      Cause it kills you?

      Cause it stops you from killing.

      Sounds like you guys just don't like counters.

      Agreed.
      Wuuffyy,
      ESO player since 2014
      -PM for questions
    • TequilaFire
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      Tasear wrote: »
      Cause it kills you?

      Cause it stops you from killing.

      Sounds like you guys just don't like counters.

      Agreed.

      Double agree, Trickshot is a ganker.
    • templesus
      templesus
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      Tasear wrote: »
      Cause it kills you?

      Cause it stops you from killing.

      Sounds like you guys just don't like counters.

      Agreed.

      Double agree, Trickshot is a ganker.

      What? I don't even have a stamblade. Must have me mixed with someone else.

      Clearly someone trying to discredit logical argument with falsified data.
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