The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
Snipe, Earthgore, TimeStop and Cloak all need nerfs.
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Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People who call for nerfs just baffle me.
If you think the skill is so good in PVP, you can use it, too. You just want your own build to be overpowered.
If you think a skill is so good in PVE and that warrants a nerf, you are completely out of touch with the vast majority of PVE players in this game. I’m talking about players for whom vet BRF is a major breakthrough, something worthy of a truly awesome reward or they would never put themselves through that. I have helped many people in their first vet runs through BRF or CoS for the helms, and the helms were the ONLY reason they considered attempting it. And based on what I see in pledge pugs, these were actually above average players struggling to clear vet for the first time.
The people who frequent this forum are not a good representation of the game population, and many of the “casuals” spend as much money as or more than the more skilled players.Edited by Pevey on February 2, 2019 10:27PM5 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DoonerSeraph wrote: »
Earthgore needs to prevent rewarding multiple people stacking it, make it so if you get healed by its proc, you can't be affected by another earthgore proc for the same duration of its cooldown. It will still be a lifesaver, just not firing off another player every 5 seconds.
This would actually be reasonable. It would nerf it in big groups in Cyrodiil but not ruin it for PvE or smaller scale stuff where it is not OP.Edited by spartaxoxo on February 2, 2019 10:30PM0 -
People who call for nerfs just baffle me.
If you think the skill is so good in PVP, you can use it, too. You just want your own build to be overpowered.
[...]
The people who frequent this forum are not a good representation of the game population, and many of the “casuals” spend as much money as or more than the more skilled players.
Most people crying Nerf! in the forums are so mad about their last death that they took to the forums to make themselves feel better. Skilled players are too busy winning campaigns to care about the going-on’s of the forums.
I just couldn’t help but noticed yet another thread crying for Cloak nerf when I was originally after the PTS natch potes. (And I got suckered in
) 2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeneralRoadkill wrote: »People who call for nerfs just baffle me.
If you think the skill is so good in PVP, you can use it, too. You just want your own build to be overpowered.
[...]
The people who frequent this forum are not a good representation of the game population, and many of the “casuals” spend as much money as or more than the more skilled players.
Most people crying Nerf! in the forums are so mad about their last death that they took to the forums to make themselves feel better. Skilled players are too busy winning campaigns to care about the going-on’s of the forums.
I just couldn’t help but noticed yet another thread crying for Cloak nerf when I was originally after the PTS natch potes. (And I got suckered in )
LOL1 -
2. Cloak away from any fight you don’t think you’ll win.LOL
One of the in game loading screen tips even recommends a hasty retreat if you wander into a bad situation, but who reads those?
EDIT:
Here is the actual loading screen tool tip:
“Fleeing is a perfectly valid tactic if you wander into a tough situation. Find or craft better gear, use skill points, or level up a bit more, then come back to fight another day.”
So if you want cloak nerfed because we use it to flee, then get over it or up your execute potential so that we don’t escape.Edited by GeneralRoadkill on February 3, 2019 6:03AM1 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭You want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make their playstyles and characters.
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations, a bit too well occasionally. Therefore with all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.Edited by likecats on February 3, 2019 6:08AM4 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.Edited by templesus on February 3, 2019 6:10AM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also, very happy to see in the Class Rep meeting notes that atleast Timestop, Earthgore and SNIPE are all being addressed
Edited by templesus on February 3, 2019 6:13AM1 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭You want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.
My apologies.
You said "Majority of good nightblades don't use cloak". Which would imply only a minority of good magblades use cloak. Which would imply most people using cloak are bad players (unless the minority of good players are a majority in using cloak). I take back the *only* part in my post above.
I strongly doubt the above claim, as I have nothing convincing me to believe it in my 4 years of magblade. (unless you are not talking about openworld). I'd love for you to name a better nightblade than the 3 of the ones I mentioned. All good mag nightblades I've met used cloak in openworld. In BG's, cloak is somewhat optional depending on your team. 1v1, cloak is subpar and almost no one uses it.Edited by likecats on February 3, 2019 6:24AM1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.
My apologies.
You said "Majority of good nightblades don't use cloak". Which would imply only a minority of good magblades use cloak. Which would imply most people using cloak are bad players (unless the minority of good players are a majority in using cloak). I take back the *only* part in my post above.
I strongly doubt the above claim, as I have nothing convincing me to believe it in my 4 years of magblade. (unless you are not talking about openworld). I'd love for you to name a better nightblade than the 3 of the ones I mentioned. All good mag nightblades I've met used cloak in openworld. In BG's, cloak is somewhat optional depending on your team. 1v1, cloak is subpar and almost no one uses it.
https://youtu.be/YuzJ2N2yg8w he doesn’t even main Magicka Nightblade. He mains a StamDK.
Maybe it’s a disparity between console and PC. But i can assure you on console (PS4 NA) that the top Magblades do not use cloak. It’s actually frowned upon.
https://youtu.be/9HjTCQMEcOg Edited by templesus on February 3, 2019 6:42AM0 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭You want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.
My apologies.
You said "Majority of good nightblades don't use cloak". Which would imply only a minority of good magblades use cloak. Which would imply most people using cloak are bad players (unless the minority of good players are a majority in using cloak). I take back the *only* part in my post above.
I strongly doubt the above claim, as I have nothing convincing me to believe it in my 4 years of magblade. (unless you are not talking about openworld). I'd love for you to name a better nightblade than the 3 of the ones I mentioned. All good mag nightblades I've met used cloak in openworld. In BG's, cloak is somewhat optional depending on your team. 1v1, cloak is subpar and almost no one uses it.https://youtu.be/YuzJ2N2yg8w he doesn’t even main Magicka Nightblade. He mains a StamDK.
Maybe it’s a disparity between console and PC. But i can assure you on console (PS4 NA) that the top Magblades do not use cloak. It’s actually frowned upon.https://youtu.be/9HjTCQMEcOg
Both videos, players running destro/resto with necropotence (you can see their max magicka go up) with 50k max magicka.
Second guy enjoys the no shield cap meta, first guy compensates his health a little to still utilize max shields. (additionally his dark cloak goes up).
Both builds not viable in no cp pvp. Health takes a huge hit, and their shields can see about a 12%-15% nerf due to the health cap. Dark cloak gets nerfed in no cp as well. Their healing/steadfast wards also go down. All in all, defense nerfed on 3 fronts when you go in no cp.
Even this build gets a hard nerf, as % based race modifiers are removed and these guys with 50k magicka will be hit the hardest.
Like I said, if you intend on curbing magblades on a very niche destro/resto build with certain BIS sets in CP, sure magblades will be fine.
Ultimately if cloak were to get the mist form treatment, or the streak treatment, it needs most if not all of its counters removed. Including detect pots and AOE's.Edited by likecats on February 3, 2019 7:28AM2 -
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period.
Instead of crying Nerf! Why don’t you offer a viable solution. The only thing I’ve seen you provide is vague alternatives, like rebalancing in a way that buffs skilled play.
Care to elaborate? I want to emphasize that I am not completely against cloak changes, but simply stating something needs a nerf does not further any conversation or debate relating to the issue at hand.
And as someone else stated, removing it from the game would remove a defining ability for one of the original launch classes, as well as dozens of play styles that have varying degrees of reliance on cloak.
And you may also be correct about disparity between PC and PS4, but on PC - all of the best players I see use cloak and sometimes image in tandem, which make for some sick plays that honestly come down to the player outwitting several opponents simultaneously. Just because console casuals don’t approve of it doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed or removed. It’s part of the game.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^
I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.
It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.
I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^
I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.
It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.
I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.
So would you rather this set carry your group and actually putting in the work to better your group so this set isn’t necessary?
You're acting like everyone has a group. They don't. This game already has some of the lowest completion ratios of non-score end game content out there, people already queue dodge and some people wait months or years to be able to try out new content. PvE doesn't need to be made harder.
Plenty of people have never stepped foot in the endgame content despite being around for years and having the builds necessary to beat that content, because endgame guilds don't like taking inexperienced people and going through some week long process to train them.
Good for you if you did it. But Earthgore is not a carry set, it is a training tool. Elitism like this is strangling the life out of this game.
If a set drastically changes ur performance but doesn't require you to put in the work to get better then it's by definition a carry set. Not a training tool.
Guilds not taking people for training is a different discussion but crutching on sets to beat content doesn't help and certainly doesn't make you a better player.0 -
ebix_✭✭✭✭yeah it's the dream if they nerf snipe and cloak .. but have you countered noob snipers in bg ? they are sooooo funnn toooo killlll !!! if you hit them with soul assault they will panic and roll dodge . so delightfulEdited by ebix_ on February 3, 2019 9:07AM0
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usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Ultimately if cloak were to get the mist form treatment, or the streak treatment, it needs most if not all of its counters removed. Including detect pots and AOE's.
I agree. Remove all gap closers, have ball lightning last like 8 seconds again and absorb all projectiles and make everything dodgeable again.
0331
06020 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭UYou want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.
My apologies.
You said "Majority of good nightblades don't use cloak". Which would imply only a minority of good magblades use cloak. Which would imply most people using cloak are bad players (unless the minority of good players are a majority in using cloak). I take back the *only* part in my post above.
I strongly doubt the above claim, as I have nothing convincing me to believe it in my 4 years of magblade. (unless you are not talking about openworld). I'd love for you to name a better nightblade than the 3 of the ones I mentioned. All good mag nightblades I've met used cloak in openworld. In BG's, cloak is somewhat optional depending on your team. 1v1, cloak is subpar and almost no one uses it.https://youtu.be/YuzJ2N2yg8w he doesn’t even main Magicka Nightblade. He mains a StamDK.
Maybe it’s a disparity between console and PC. But i can assure you on console (PS4 NA) that the top Magblades do not use cloak. It’s actually frowned upon.https://youtu.be/9HjTCQMEcOg
Both videos, players running destro/resto with necropotence (you can see their max magicka go up) with 50k max magicka.
Second guy enjoys the no shield cap meta, first guy compensates his health a little to still utilize max shields. (additionally his dark cloak goes up).
Both builds not viable in no cp pvp. Health takes a huge hit, and their shields can see about a 12%-15% nerf due to the health cap. Dark cloak gets nerfed in no cp as well. Their healing/steadfast wards also go down. All in all, defense nerfed on 3 fronts when you go in no cp.
Even this build gets a hard nerf, as % based race modifiers are removed and these guys with 50k magicka will be hit the hardest.
Like I said, if you intend on curbing magblades on a very niche destro/resto build with certain BIS sets in CP, sure magblades will be fine.
Ultimately if cloak were to get the mist form treatment, or the streak treatment, it needs most if not all of its counters removed. Including detect pots and AOE's.
No. Keep the counters, give it the mist form treatment. Make the base ability grant snare removal and only the stealth one gets the mist treatment. Stealth mechanic as a whole is outrageous that it even exists.GeneralRoadkill wrote: »
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period.
Instead of crying Nerf! Why don’t you offer a viable solution. The only thing I’ve seen you provide is vague alternatives, like rebalancing in a way that buffs skilled play.
Care to elaborate? I want to emphasize that I am not completely against cloak changes, but simply stating something needs a nerf does not further any conversation or debate relating to the issue at hand.
And as someone else stated, removing it from the game would remove a defining ability for one of the original launch classes, as well as dozens of play styles that have varying degrees of reliance on cloak.
And you may also be correct about disparity between PC and PS4, but on PC - all of the best players I see use cloak and sometimes image in tandem, which make for some sick plays that honestly come down to the player outwitting several opponents simultaneously. Just because console casuals don’t approve of it doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed or removed. It’s part of the game.
You believe that skilled players are busy winning campaigns; 99% of skilled players don’t care about the score, at all.3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭UYou want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.
My apologies.
You said "Majority of good nightblades don't use cloak". Which would imply only a minority of good magblades use cloak. Which would imply most people using cloak are bad players (unless the minority of good players are a majority in using cloak). I take back the *only* part in my post above.
I strongly doubt the above claim, as I have nothing convincing me to believe it in my 4 years of magblade. (unless you are not talking about openworld). I'd love for you to name a better nightblade than the 3 of the ones I mentioned. All good mag nightblades I've met used cloak in openworld. In BG's, cloak is somewhat optional depending on your team. 1v1, cloak is subpar and almost no one uses it.https://youtu.be/YuzJ2N2yg8w he doesn’t even main Magicka Nightblade. He mains a StamDK.
Maybe it’s a disparity between console and PC. But i can assure you on console (PS4 NA) that the top Magblades do not use cloak. It’s actually frowned upon.https://youtu.be/9HjTCQMEcOg
Both videos, players running destro/resto with necropotence (you can see their max magicka go up) with 50k max magicka.
Second guy enjoys the no shield cap meta, first guy compensates his health a little to still utilize max shields. (additionally his dark cloak goes up).
Both builds not viable in no cp pvp. Health takes a huge hit, and their shields can see about a 12%-15% nerf due to the health cap. Dark cloak gets nerfed in no cp as well. Their healing/steadfast wards also go down. All in all, defense nerfed on 3 fronts when you go in no cp.
Even this build gets a hard nerf, as % based race modifiers are removed and these guys with 50k magicka will be hit the hardest.
Like I said, if you intend on curbing magblades on a very niche destro/resto build with certain BIS sets in CP, sure magblades will be fine.
Ultimately if cloak were to get the mist form treatment, or the streak treatment, it needs most if not all of its counters removed. Including detect pots and AOE's.
No. Keep the counters, give it the mist form treatment. Make the base ability grant snare removal and only the stealth one gets the mist treatment. Stealth mechanic as a whole is outrageous that it even exists.GeneralRoadkill wrote: »
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period.
Instead of crying Nerf! Why don’t you offer a viable solution. The only thing I’ve seen you provide is vague alternatives, like rebalancing in a way that buffs skilled play.
Care to elaborate? I want to emphasize that I am not completely against cloak changes, but simply stating something needs a nerf does not further any conversation or debate relating to the issue at hand.
And as someone else stated, removing it from the game would remove a defining ability for one of the original launch classes, as well as dozens of play styles that have varying degrees of reliance on cloak.
And you may also be correct about disparity between PC and PS4, but on PC - all of the best players I see use cloak and sometimes image in tandem, which make for some sick plays that honestly come down to the player outwitting several opponents simultaneously. Just because console casuals don’t approve of it doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed or removed. It’s part of the game.
You believe that skilled players are busy winning campaigns; 99% of skilled players don’t care about the score, at all.
So what are they doing?
And once and for all define your version of "skill".0 -
likecats✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »
Ultimately if cloak were to get the mist form treatment, or the streak treatment, it needs most if not all of its counters removed. Including detect pots and AOE's.
I agree. Remove all gap closers, have ball lightning last like 8 seconds again and absorb all projectiles and make everything dodgeable again.
Streak has one counter, if you gap close your enemy from hugging range.
I don't mind keeping mage-light, expert hunter or flares which will be essentially the same. Hugging your enemy? Magelight can reveal you.
Additionally with streak, even if one person does gap close you, it's only one person. If you are 1vXing, you will never have all X amount of people reach you with streak. Cloak on the other hand, one guy decides to spin2win/hurricane/dk armor/magelight and you get revealed for everyone.
Balance wise, if you want to make cloak like streak, no one will be able to cloak more than 3 times without exhausting their entire magicka pool. At that point, if you keep 3 dozen counters cloak has with all the AOE's, then its just useless altogether.
No. Keep the counters, give it the mist form treatment. Make the base ability grant snare removal and only the stealth one gets the mist treatment. Stealth mechanic as a whole is outrageous that it even exists.
You do realize your enemy can not break your mist form? That is one of the major reasons people use mist-form. If you are advocating for that, then I'm fine with the changes more or less. I don't think ZOS or Kena will be fine with them. But at this point no point in further argument. Highly unlikely they will convert a class defining ability into something that already exists in the game, available to everybody, all because someone is outraged at stealth gameplay.
Edited by likecats on February 3, 2019 3:36PM0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »
Ultimately if cloak were to get the mist form treatment, or the streak treatment, it needs most if not all of its counters removed. Including detect pots and AOE's.
I agree. Remove all gap closers, have ball lightning last like 8 seconds again and absorb all projectiles and make everything dodgeable again.
Streak has one counter, if you gap close your enemy from hugging range.
I don't mind keeping mage-light, expert hunter or flares which will be essentially the same. Hugging your enemy? Magelight can reveal you.
Additionally with streak, even if one person does gap close you, it's only one person. If you are 1vXing, you will never have all X amount of people reach you with streak. Cloak on the other hand, one guy decides to spin2win/hurricane/dk armor/magelight and you get revealed for everyone.
Balance wise, if you want to make cloak like streak, no one will be able to cloak more than 3 times without exhausting their entire magicka pool. At that point, if you keep 3 dozen counters cloak has with all the AOE's, then its just useless altogether.
No. Keep the counters, give it the mist form treatment. Make the base ability grant snare removal and only the stealth one gets the mist treatment. Stealth mechanic as a whole is outrageous that it even exists.
You do realize your enemy can not break your mist form? That is one of the major reasons people use mist-form. If you are advocating for that, then I'm fine with the changes more or less. I don't think ZOS or Kena will be fine with them. But at this point no point in further argument. Highly unlikely they will convert a class defining ability into something that already exists in the game, available to everybody, all because someone is outraged at stealth gameplay.
Mist form isn’t the same as going stealth to remove snares, make all abilities targeting you at that moment miss, suppress all dots, and make you completely hidden from further attacks unless you’re pulled out.
Not even remotely the same. The skill should be buffed for Skilled players and nerfed for bad players. Ie a buff for Kena and the others you mentioned, but a nerf for a snipe spammer who cloaks everytime they’re looked at even though they’re 30m away from you.TequilaFire wrote: »UYou want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.
My apologies.
You said "Majority of good nightblades don't use cloak". Which would imply only a minority of good magblades use cloak. Which would imply most people using cloak are bad players (unless the minority of good players are a majority in using cloak). I take back the *only* part in my post above.
I strongly doubt the above claim, as I have nothing convincing me to believe it in my 4 years of magblade. (unless you are not talking about openworld). I'd love for you to name a better nightblade than the 3 of the ones I mentioned. All good mag nightblades I've met used cloak in openworld. In BG's, cloak is somewhat optional depending on your team. 1v1, cloak is subpar and almost no one uses it.https://youtu.be/YuzJ2N2yg8w he doesn’t even main Magicka Nightblade. He mains a StamDK.
Maybe it’s a disparity between console and PC. But i can assure you on console (PS4 NA) that the top Magblades do not use cloak. It’s actually frowned upon.https://youtu.be/9HjTCQMEcOg
Both videos, players running destro/resto with necropotence (you can see their max magicka go up) with 50k max magicka.
Second guy enjoys the no shield cap meta, first guy compensates his health a little to still utilize max shields. (additionally his dark cloak goes up).
Both builds not viable in no cp pvp. Health takes a huge hit, and their shields can see about a 12%-15% nerf due to the health cap. Dark cloak gets nerfed in no cp as well. Their healing/steadfast wards also go down. All in all, defense nerfed on 3 fronts when you go in no cp.
Even this build gets a hard nerf, as % based race modifiers are removed and these guys with 50k magicka will be hit the hardest.
Like I said, if you intend on curbing magblades on a very niche destro/resto build with certain BIS sets in CP, sure magblades will be fine.
Ultimately if cloak were to get the mist form treatment, or the streak treatment, it needs most if not all of its counters removed. Including detect pots and AOE's.
No. Keep the counters, give it the mist form treatment. Make the base ability grant snare removal and only the stealth one gets the mist treatment. Stealth mechanic as a whole is outrageous that it even exists.GeneralRoadkill wrote: »
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period.
Instead of crying Nerf! Why don’t you offer a viable solution. The only thing I’ve seen you provide is vague alternatives, like rebalancing in a way that buffs skilled play.
Care to elaborate? I want to emphasize that I am not completely against cloak changes, but simply stating something needs a nerf does not further any conversation or debate relating to the issue at hand.
And as someone else stated, removing it from the game would remove a defining ability for one of the original launch classes, as well as dozens of play styles that have varying degrees of reliance on cloak.
And you may also be correct about disparity between PC and PS4, but on PC - all of the best players I see use cloak and sometimes image in tandem, which make for some sick plays that honestly come down to the player outwitting several opponents simultaneously. Just because console casuals don’t approve of it doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed or removed. It’s part of the game.
You believe that skilled players are busy winning campaigns; 99% of skilled players don’t care about the score, at all.
So what are they doing?
And once and for all define your version of "skill".
They’re looking for outnumbered fights. I’d estimate that 1% of the skilled player population even looks at the campaign score. Skill in this game PvP wise is the ability to fight multiple enemies solo and kill them, you can compare skill by:
a. How many people one kills in a 1vX
b. How many other people would be able to pull off that same 1vX
I.e if you kill 2 level 10s by yourself you wouldn’t really be skilled, because 99% of people in Cyrodiil would probably also be able to do it.
If you pull of a 1v5 and only 1% of the Cyrodiil population would also be able to pull it off, you’re a skilled player.Edited by templesus on February 3, 2019 4:40PM0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭You want to see nightblade? Let's make cloak just cleance 5 negative effects and give minor vitality for 3 sec
Sure. Nerfing cloak only nerfs bad players and bad players won’t make good use of a purge. That actually sounds like a great change since it removed cloak entirely, thanks for the suggestion!
Reading some of your responses and wanted to reply.
First of all, your argument that cloak is only used by bad players is rhetorical garbage. I've played with Kena, Zendran, VitaBelial. One of these three is probably the best magblade in the world and they all used cloak when I played with them.
The thing about cloak is that it only scales in 1vX (same with shade), so calling people who use cloak zergling only displays your lack of understanding of the magblade class. In a 1v1 cloak is already a subpar option and most magblades use something else. Whenever I have a half decent team in BG's, I immediately remove cloak as I know that I won't be using it at all for the entire game. You can argue that some 1vXers crutch on cloak, and I'd agree, but claiming zerglings clutch on cloak is an inherently misinformed argument.
Your navel gazing opinion about cloak only being used by bad players also fails to acknowledge that cloak is a class defining ability that aids a certain playstyle. Sure you don't *need* cloak for a particular destro/resto build with some BIS set combination, but your short-sighted claims can easily destroy half a dozen different playstyles.
I could argue that good sorcs don't need streak, good templars don't need BOL (or cleanse), good DK's don't need wings, good wardens don't need shimmering shields. But all of these abilities are uniquely class defining abilities that people have specifically used to make
Cloak feel pretty balanced in BG's, and in cyrodil it scales really well in certain situations. With all that being said, I am not against cloak being rebalanced.
1) I don't mind having the cloak get the streak treatment; as long as you remove all counters that break/reveal cloak.
Streak while having a cost multiplier, guarantees that your character will move 22m or so. Guarentee my cloak isn't broken for 3 seconds I'm fine with the streak treatment.
2) I don't mind cloak getting the mist form treatment, granted you can guarantee that my cloak will not be broken for those 3 seconds. I love a good snare removal.
Keeping all the counters to cloak while significantly nerfing it a terrible balance decision. I highly doubt Kena (undisputably a great nightblade who uses cloak) would let that go through. Pick one or the other.
I never said Cloak is only used by bad players. Not once. I said nerfing it only nerfs bad players, because good players don’t need it to succeed. Your whole argument is a Strawman.
Cloak (stealth mechanic) needs a nerf. Period. At the same time it can be changed in such a way that it’s actually a buff for good players (snare removal). This is how the game should be balanced. Reward skill.
My apologies.
You said "Majority of good nightblades don't use cloak". Which would imply only a minority of good magblades use cloak. Which would imply most people using cloak are bad players (unless the minority of good players are a majority in using cloak). I take back the *only* part in my post above.
I strongly doubt the above claim, as I have nothing convincing me to believe it in my 4 years of magblade. (unless you are not talking about openworld). I'd love for you to name a better nightblade than the 3 of the ones I mentioned. All good mag nightblades I've met used cloak in openworld. In BG's, cloak is somewhat optional depending on your team. 1v1, cloak is subpar and almost no one uses it.https://youtu.be/YuzJ2N2yg8w he doesn’t even main Magicka Nightblade. He mains a StamDK.
Maybe it’s a disparity between console and PC. But i can assure you on console (PS4 NA) that the top Magblades do not use cloak. It’s actually frowned upon.https://youtu.be/9HjTCQMEcOg
You would be hard pressed to find magblades on Xbox NA that don't have Cloak slotted for open world cyrodiil as well. You might see some magblades that come into cyrodiil on their 1v1 builds and don't have Cloak slotted or some that build for high health and use dark Cloak instead. For the most part though most magblades will have Cloak on their bars wether they be newer players or the most experienced nightblades.
I'm confused as to why players on PS4 would intentionally nerf themselves out of a key class ability because it's frowned upon. Unless majority of them are duelers who just happen to play cyrodiil occasionally and don't want to switch up their build constantly.3 -
Diundriel✭✭✭just my random opinion on time bubble:
movement is already slow, just increasing the cost wont make it much better in cyrodil.
In my opinion you also have to remove the snare otherwise they just throw 3 in a row and you get stuck all time;
not gonna be a nice experience next patch.
Earthgore is not to strong atm from raid healing perspective, you want a mix of Bogdan and earthgore atm.
tho i have to admit that in smallscale they are more than annoying, i can burst through one earthgore without Problems, but if 3 proc on the same guy; no Chance. Maybe make it so earthgore procs cant stack on one target?GM of former Slack Squad PvP Raid Guild
Our Vids:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKLwZNZlv8an4p-xNoboE7w
Characters:
Zoe'la- AD Magplar AvA 50 x2.5
Not Zoe'la- DC Magplar AvA 25
Worst Healbot EU- EP Magplar AvA 20
Diundriel- AD StamNB AvA 36
Pugs Got Bombed- AD ManaNB AvA 36
Cause we have dots- AD ManaSorc AvA 33
Red Zergs Again- AD StamDen AvA 29
Synergy Spam Bot- AD MagDK AvA 17
Heals of Cyrodiil- AD ManaDen AvA 14
Nawrina- DC StamDK AvA 26
Not Ganking- StamNB PVE DD
Stack Pls- DC ManaNB AvA 20
Der Katzenmensch- AD AvA 30
Der kleine Troll- DC StamDen AvA 24
and some I deleted and new ones I am to lazy to add so well above 200 Mio AP and 6 Former Emperor Characters
PvE: multiple Flawless Conqueror Chars, vAS +2, vCloudrest +3, vRG, vKA, vCrag hms, vDSA 43,5k score ...0 -
Excelsus✭✭✭✭Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^
I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.
It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
Well thank you for blessing us with your presense. If you wanna get technical a healer in anything but trials is a carry, saving players who dont have self heals or stand in red. Lets just remove them entirely and see how many new players rage quit. There's nothing wrong with a failsafe. Someone misses a dodge, someone overextends and that happens a lot, even more in the 99% that I belong to and having a way to course correct from those mistakes enables me to do my daily pledges and my HMs with average joe and jane doe from the dungeon finder without begging my way in to a 1% guild. The more you limit the typical player from content the less players youll have sticking around paying the bills. And if all these cry nerfs go through it will hinder a rapidly expanding and learning player base.0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^
I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.
It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
Well thank you for blessing us with your presense. If you wanna get technical a healer in anything but trials is a carry, saving players who dont have self heals or stand in red. Lets just remove them entirely and see how many new players rage quit. There's nothing wrong with a failsafe. Someone misses a dodge, someone overextends and that happens a lot, even more in the 99% that I belong to and having a way to course correct from those mistakes enables me to do my daily pledges and my HMs with average joe and jane doe from the dungeon finder without begging my way in to a 1% guild. The more you limit the typical player from content the less players youll have sticking around paying the bills. And if all these cry nerfs go through it will hinder a rapidly expanding and learning player base.
I don’t run a healer in any non trial content, you’re gimping your group DPS wise so no point in it. If you chose to have that failsafe carry then your DPS suffers, it’s a good trade-off.
In true endgame content most healers run Bogdan anyways. Earthgore wont be missed.1 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭People who call for nerfs just baffle me.
If you think the skill is so good in PVP, you can use it, too. You just want your own build to be overpowered.
Or you would prefer to fight a wide array of play styles and builds, not have cyrodiil bogged down with everyone running the same sets. People being forced to run the same gear is an imbalance in the game.If you think a skill is so good in PVE and that warrants a nerf, you are completely out of touch with the vast majority of PVE players in this game. I’m talking about players for whom vet BRF is a major breakthrough, something worthy of a truly awesome reward or they would never put themselves through that. I have helped many people in their first vet runs through BRF or CoS for the helms, and the helms were the ONLY reason they considered attempting it. And based on what I see in pledge pugs, these were actually above average players struggling to clear vet for the first time.
The people who frequent this forum are not a good representation of the game population, and many of the “casuals” spend as much money as or more than the more skilled players.
This just sounds to me like you want your own build to be overpowered.
0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^
I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.
It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
Well thank you for blessing us with your presense. If you wanna get technical a healer in anything but trials is a carry, saving players who dont have self heals or stand in red. Lets just remove them entirely and see how many new players rage quit. There's nothing wrong with a failsafe. Someone misses a dodge, someone overextends and that happens a lot, even more in the 99% that I belong to and having a way to course correct from those mistakes enables me to do my daily pledges and my HMs with average joe and jane doe from the dungeon finder without begging my way in to a 1% guild. The more you limit the typical player from content the less players youll have sticking around paying the bills. And if all these cry nerfs go through it will hinder a rapidly expanding and learning player base.
I don’t run a healer in any non trial content, you’re gimping your group DPS wise so no point in it. If you chose to have that failsafe carry then your DPS suffers, it’s a good trade-off.
In true endgame content most healers run Bogdan anyways. Earthgore wont be missed.
People still running vet dungeons without healers further proves the Healing Ward nerf was only applying a wet bandaid.
That's one I'd like to get back.1 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »And once and for all define your version of "skill".
Skills should have counterplay, classes should have skills and abilities that they can use to counter another class or play style. Every class and player should have access to skills/passives/sets that allow them to counter what is being done to them.
There's nothing wrong with dying to 1, 2, 10 people when they just play better than you. There is something wrong when you're fighting somebody or a group of people and the only reason they're staying alive is sets like earthgore, or the only reason they're doing damage is first introduced sets like sloads/viper or current zaan's.
Let the players decide the outcome, don't let sets carry groups, players or builds.Edited by FrankonPC on February 3, 2019 10:08PM1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
How the hell does nerfing a healer set make healers more viable for endgame? I guess if you only count vet trials, but healers are already used there sooooo that doesn't make sense.
Tank + 3 DPS with DPS monsters sets is by far better than randomly hoping earthgore procs. Hell Chudan for DPS with that logic because it just reduces and extra dmg you take to the point you don't *go* below 50 anyway.
Bogdan is *** in some Vet HM's btw. Its just too small and you have to move too much. I can't imagine it getting any use in something like Fang Lair HM.
March HM is another one - the hunt is probably where you would need it, and you just sorta have to hope it procs near a trap otherwise you just run right out of it anyway.Edited by karekiz on February 3, 2019 10:18PM1 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
How the hell does nerfing a healer set make healers more viable for endgame? I guess if you only count vet trials, but healers are already used there sooooo that doesn't make sense.
Tank + 3 DPS with DPS monsters sets is by far better than randomly hoping earthgore procs. Hell Chudan for DPS with that logic because it just reduces and extra dmg you take to the point you don't *go* below 50 anyway.
Bogdan is *** in some Vet HM's btw. Its just too small and you have to move too much. I can't imagine it getting any use in something like Fang Lair HM.
March HM is another one - the hunt is probably where you would need it, and you just sorta have to hope it procs near a trap otherwise you just run right out of it anyway.
Not true. You can complete vHRC for instance with only 1 healer if the tank going bottom has 5 decent enough DPS and is wearing earthgore for the extra healing.
A set can literally replace a healer entirely. How does that come across as balanced to anybody?1 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.
How the hell does nerfing a healer set make healers more viable for endgame? I guess if you only count vet trials, but healers are already used there sooooo that doesn't make sense.
Tank + 3 DPS with DPS monsters sets is by far better than randomly hoping earthgore procs. Hell Chudan for DPS with that logic because it just reduces and extra dmg you take to the point you don't *go* below 50 anyway.
Bogdan is *** in some Vet HM's btw. Its just too small and you have to move too much. I can't imagine it getting any use in something like Fang Lair HM.
March HM is another one - the hunt is probably where you would need it, and you just sorta have to hope it procs near a trap otherwise you just run right out of it anyway.
Not true. You can complete vHRC for instance with only 1 healer if the tank going bottom has 5 decent enough DPS and is wearing earthgore for the extra healing.
A set can literally replace a healer entirely. How does that come across as balanced to anybody?
Needs to be pointed out that vHRC is going to require 2 healers going forward with the new autowipe mechanic and inability to skip top boss.
Not only that, but Earthgore really isn't all that powerful. It's a 35s proc. Groups up top still regularly wipe even if a tank wears it.
Even in PvP, if you're anywhere near competent you can burst through an Earthgore proc 1v1. It's not powerful enough to negate a good burst setup. And in the sad event that you can't burst through, you've got a whole 35s to do better.
The only reason people are bitching about Earthgore is because of its use in zergs. That's a problem - not because of Earthgore, but because of zergs. It's impossible and irresponsible to try to balance the entire game around zergs. It's why Wheeler is looking into ways to force zergs to break apart.
In reality, this whining about the "OPness" of Earthgore has little to do with the set itself. The set is fine.
The fact that procs from the same sets stack is one half of the actual problem, and the fact that zergs can stack without any negative consequences is the other half.PC-NA Goat1
