Snipe, Earthgore, TimeStop and Cloak all need nerfs.

Tholian1

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^

I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.

It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.

If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.

I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.

Tholian1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^

I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.

It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.

If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.

I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.

So would you rather this set carry your group and actually putting in the work to better your group so this set isn’t necessary?

The fact that I said that we still wipe is a pretty good indicator that earthgore isn’t enough to carry us. We put in the work all the same and find the content plenty challenging.

And like I alluded to before, PvP shouldn’t be dictating what should be broken for PvE players, and the Elite PvE players really have no business dictating what the difficulty of the game should be for everyone else either. Stop asking for nerfs.

templesus

Tholian1 wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^

I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.

It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.

If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.

I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.

Tholian1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^

I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.

It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.

If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.

I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.

So would you rather this set carry your group and actually putting in the work to better your group so this set isn’t necessary?

The fact that I said that we still wipe is a pretty good indicator that earthgore isn’t enough to carry us. We put in the work all the same and find the content plenty challenging.

And like I alluded to before, PvP shouldn’t be dictating what should be broken for PvE players, and the Elite PvE players really have no business dictating what the difficulty of the game should be for everyone else either. Stop asking for nerfs.

If one group can complete content, so can everybody else. Elite vs Non-Elite is a straw man argument.

kind_hero

IAVITNI wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Do you realise that cloak is the defining ability of the nightblade, especially the magicka nightblade?

You keep asking to nerf the cloak to what end? Have you tried playing a magNB and found out that it is way to easy thanks to the cloak? What are your defences in BG as a magNB? You are a mage that can sneak, that's all, but a poor mage, because you lack any burst damage. I main a mnb and cloak does not save me that often, because it is so easy to counter!!! So I can't even imagine what will be fair play to you while fighting a STEALTHY class, the nightblade. Stealth and cloak is the reason I picked this class from the very begining, and at that time I did not had pvp in mind at all... just that cloak is a fun ability a trademark of the nightblade, a rogue/thief class in RPGs. So even if you keep spaming it, there are so many aoe's and dots that get you out of it, you can really use it effectively for a split second, then you really need act - either flee, or reengage in a new attack. But the problem is, once your enemies know you are around and using cloak, they activate their defences, pots, aoe spams, and act weary, so the cloak is not going to work for long.

The whole skill tree of the mnb is imagined to put pressure on the target with snares and dots, but you do not have a burst attack like the stamblade has with snipe, you have to build it up hoping that by the time you get the bow proc your target is still in range or has not destroyed you. I am really wondering if you know what you are talking about, when you discuss cloak nerfs.

So yea, snipe is bad because it is cheap, you do not need much skill to find a sweet spot and keep ganking people. But you can't also just nerf it to the ground, making snipe hit like a wet noodle. Snipers are usually easy to destroy if you get close to them because they fear melee combat, and are not prepaired for it. So each thing has a counter, and the nice thing about PvP is working to find out these counters, finding what works for you and getting better at it. Asking for nerfs on forums is not one of those counters.

Majority of the best magblades don't even use cloak. And no, you don't need it for open world.

Have you tried playing magblade without it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuzJ2N2yg8w

Try pulling that off by spamming Cloak as a magblade lol. You won't.

You want to say stamblade needs cloak spam?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt0qj6YzH9A&t=175s

Yes, he has cloak on his bar but look at how many times he actually uses it. If Cloak increased in cost by 500% for 10 seconds after use, this guy wouldn't even be affected by it. Why? Because he's a good stamblade that knows how to play.

And for a direct comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQcY4GPJU6s&t=1m36s

I'm not even a good stamblade. If you look at the last fight you can see how I literally don't cloak once in the 1v1 and get an easy dub.

Every single night blade that says Cloak is weak is bad.

Cloak is a crutch for bad players. People think that you need Cloak to play a stamblade. You don't. You need skill to play it, arguably less than other classes in the current meta, but flat out removing Cloak wouldn't even destroy the class. It would make it significantly weaker, but the first 2 videos prove you don't need it, and you especially don't need to spam it. The last clip shows the kind of players that crutch on Cloak spam. All you're doing is setting a glass ceiling for yourself by relying on Cloak.

If you don't think Cloak can't be nerfed because it would destroy nightblades...well you're just bad.

So now I am a bad player because I slot cloak? Or because some other players prefer not to use it, is it bad, and since it is bad, should it also become worse, with a nerf? What is the logic? BTW... I am not interested in stamblades, they have access to FM and other tools, I play a magicka nightblade. Also Cyrodiil pvp is different than noncp BG pvp.

This is one of the problems here... many people talk about a very specific situation and playstyle, which they try to overlap to the whole game, including pve, instead of mentioning something like: IN Cp AvA PvP, in 1vX or zerg vs zerg, there is this problem with _insert skill_. My proposal is this, I did a test with this build and came up with these conclusions.... Most people just vent their anger after losing some games or skirmishes.

Also you are referring to your playstyle and preference, which is not optimal or fun for everyone. Same with the OP... don't tell me the skills I use are bad or have to be nerfed, or if you do, come with some constructive feedback which is not going to antagonise players. Saying the ping is low is not really a balance issue.

Again.. stop telling people how to play the game and their chars. (you are telling me that I do not need cloak for the open world, which is clearly a matter of choice, since the open world is the main casual play area of the game).

Your arguments would be valid if the cloak ability would have almost no counter and would create a huge advantage to its user. But it is hardly the case... it is more an annoyance to the one fighting a magblade, and as people know, it has many counters which are not class restricted, this being the reason behind "majority of the best magblades don't even use cloak", as you say. So then, why nerf it or change it? You say it is a crutch for bad players, which I doubt, since it does not make you hard to kill like pre-murkmire shields made you, especially sorc shield. It is convenient to vanish and makes some things easier, same like the sorc's teleport, but does not give you the edge in pvp.

To answer to your question, for pve, I do not slot cloak, but in open world I use it often to skip mobs while questing or travelling. In PvP (I mostly do non cp BGs), I have it slotted, but I do not use it much, because the action is more intense than in zerg pvp where you get heals and buffs for lots of people. As I said.. cloaking does not save you if decent pvp-ers notice you are around. Yes, in Cyro you might find a spot to hide, but in BGs, there is hardly the case or reason to hide, so it really depends so much on the context we are talking.

visionality

Concerning Earthgore:

I think the ulti-removal ability of Earthgore needs to be removed, its too powerful considering that ultis are one-time castable abilities, not spammables. To counter ballgroups that are running around with 5-8 earthgores for free and almost continous healing and purging, just extend the cooldown from the set to all players receiving the heal/purge. Keep the ground-effect removal as it is, though, otherwise Earthgore becomes too weak.

Datthaw

If they gave my magnb snare removal I wouldn't have to slot cloak. If I had snare removal I would change it to heal cloak. But atm it's my only viable defense

technohic

Datthaw wrote: »

If they gave my magnb snare removal I wouldn't have to slot cloak. If I had snare removal I would change it to heal cloak. But atm it's my only viable defense

Personally; I'm not a fan that Mag NBs are giving up cloak to be good. I'd have a big problem if magplar gave up HTD or BOL to just run healing springs or something. Or if they gave up extended ritual for curse eater. I know it's working out for magblades to do so, but its homogenous.

Things should be adjusted to where class identity should not be traded while powers moved to sets. That's why earth gore is on this list. Should be a sorc with negate to take care of that work. In PVP, theres both and we dont need that.

I'd rather adjust counters when it comes to cloak. I mean mark is 63 m range for me near a keep and works very well, but only NBs have access. Not saying anything should have that range but they could be improved. I was using radiant magelight and it does a decent job but could use a little more range. Camo hunter is even less. Flare could use something. Maybe it could do a sweep from you to where you targeted with a 10m wide path. Dunno. Just something to make it better at its job than just any old ground target AOE

FrankonPC

.

Tholian1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^

I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.

It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.

If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.

I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.

I mean this can go two ways. Why should inexperienced players have an opinion on which sets are carries and which sets aren't? The answer is pretty simple, we're all players playing the same game and we're entitled to our opinion.

If you're crutching on a set to beat content, it's a crutch. All of these "elitists" you are talking about had to work to beat the content also, removing easy buttons makes the accomplishment more fun. In my opinion of course.

FrankonPC

BahometZ wrote: »

Just sounds like a lot of people don't want to change their playstyle to beat their opponent.

Some builds will suffer against other builds.

That Earthgore proc that frustrates you has a 35 second cool down. You procced it once, you can take them down again.

Don't like cloak? Use detect pots.

If your health is so low that you are getting ganked by snipe spam, then you better be a ganker yourself. In which case, what are you doing in plain sight? If you aren't a ganker, why is your health so low?

I was using soul assault on my magplar in a 1 v 2, soul assaulted one guy, procced earthgore. when i got my soul assault again and bursted again..another earthgore. Everyone keeps saying "35 seconds, long cooldown!" but they're not taking into account the time it takes to regenerate the bigger ultimates to take out these tankier targets, or how some classes just aren't nightblades or wardens and dont have crazy built in ultigen.

Also, give us stam detect pots please.

FrankonPC

Haashhtaag wrote: »

If one group can complete content, so can everybody else. Elite vs Non-Elite is a straw man argument.

Downgrading an opinion because they're "elites" is also an ad hominem. Two fallacies in one argument!

JAwtunes

@kind_hero good points well made!

Any calls for nerfs need to be read in context. The context for one of the nerfs here is that its a suggestion made by someone who admits they don't have a sNB (EDIT: they have since stated they play Templar. Not using cloak in ANY end game PVP massively undermines their argument. Please refrain from offering balance advice without first using skills/ sets/ races/ classes etc!). Therefore, in relation to cloaks on sNB its all from the point of view of fighting against cloak (which is somewhere between easy or impossible, depending on what you bring to the fight - talking from the POV of 1v1).

If you're set up to go toe-to-toe with a heavy armour bleed blade trying to proc you to death then you may find it more frustrating when you start fighting against a medium armour burst blade trying to gank you, and vice versa. Depending on where I am playing and what build I am using I can find both types of sNB mentioned above a big pain, but that is in no small part down to MY own choices that day.

This isn't a criticism of the OP, I agree that all of the stuff mentioned needs addressing. However, suggestions made by people who only sit on one side of the fence can lead to shambolic situations in ESO, e.g. cast times on shields.

templesus

JAwtunes wrote: »

@kind_hero good points well made!

Any calls for nerfs need to be read in context. The context for one of the nerfs here is that its a suggestion made by someone who admits they don't have a sNB. Therefore, in relation to cloaks on sNB its all from the point of view of fighting against cloak (which is somewhere between easy or impossible, depending on what you bring to the fight - talking from the POV of 1v1).

If you're set up to go toe-to-toe with a heavy armour bleed blade trying to proc you to death then you may find it more frustrating when you start fighting against a medium armour burst blade trying to gank you, and vice versa. Depending on where I am playing and what build I am using I can find both types of sNB mentioned above a big pain, but that is in no small part down to MY own choices that day.

This isn't a criticism of the OP, I agree that all of the stuff mentioned needs addressing. However, suggestions made by people who only sit on one side of the fence can lead to shambolic situations in ESO, e.g. cast times on shields.

The times where cloak is over performing is usually when it’s used by bad players in conjunction with snipe.

mb10

Nerf cloak and give NBs WHAT?

You people have been wanting cloak nerf for years with no replacement regarding how Magicka NBs are to survive.

No class heal
No class shields
Healing ward nerfed so no initial heal

No cloak = mag nb dead and buried in PVP. It’s pretty much dead already

Lucky28

yeah, no. Magblade is already in a really bad place right now. it doesn't need cloak nerfed as well.

templesus

I’m actually curious, do you people even play magicka nightblade? Because every good mag NB on discord would all be happy with the stealth mechanic of cloak being replaced with snare removal.

Furthermore, Mag NB has no class heal? What? Path, Other morph of Cloak, Swallow soul are all staple heals in magblade toolkit.

Cloak changed to snare removal = Rewarding change for good players, nerf for bad players. This is how the game should function.

FrankonPC

The only problem with that would be that you would be choosing snare removal over a heal. I don't have a problem with removing shadowy disguise on my magblade since there are some beastly dark cloak builds, but you would have to have it be another option, with a snare removal as another skill(imo).

Haashhtaag

What good is a heal when you can’t move though? Mobility is the name of the game and being able to remove snares only makes that better.

FrankonPC

I don't think you should have to choose between healing and snare removal for any class. DKs have snare removal and a heal, with their removal also having a reflect for projectiles. What I am saying would be weaker than that.

templesus

FrankonPC wrote: »

I don't think you should have to choose between healing and snare removal for any class. DKs have snare removal and a heal, with their removal also having a reflect for projectiles. What I am saying would be weaker than that.

The only way this works is if they remove the stealth mechanic completely and replace the base ability with snare removal, one gives the heal and the other gives something along the lines of minor evasion.

If you want to keep stealth mechanic, then it’ll get the mist form treatment (no healing or magic regen in it) but also be given snare removal.

Only ways to balance it imo.

Lucky28

templesus wrote: »

I’m actually curious, do you people even play magicka nightblade? Because every good m.ag NB on discord would all be happy with the stealth mechanic of cloak being replaced with snare removal.

Furthermore, Mag NB has no class heal? What? Path, Other morph of Cloak, Swallow soul are all staple heals in magblade toolkit.

Cloak changed to snare removal = Rewarding change for good players, nerf for bad players. This is how the game should function.

question is: do you play a magblade. path as it is now, is basically a *** version of rapid reagen. Swallow soul, not good replaced it with force pulse and use drain health poisons (damn near the same amount of healing when the poison procs). and snare removal is just as op as cloak, so all that change would do is make NB not feel like NB even moreso.

templesus

Lucky28 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m actually curious, do you people even play magicka nightblade? Because every good m.ag NB on discord would all be happy with the stealth mechanic of cloak being replaced with snare removal.

Furthermore, Mag NB has no class heal? What? Path, Other morph of Cloak, Swallow soul are all staple heals in magblade toolkit.

Cloak changed to snare removal = Rewarding change for good players, nerf for bad players. This is how the game should function.

question is: do you play a magblade. path as it is now, is basically a *** version of rapid reagen. Swallow soul, not good replaced it with force pulse and use drain heal poisons (damn near the same amount of healing when the poison procs). and snare removal is just as op as cloak, so all that change would do is make NB not feel like NB even moreso.

“Snare removal just as OP as cloak”

So removing snares (Forward momentum, shuffle, purify, purge, wings, mist form) are all OP and better then going stealth causing single target abilities to miss and staying stealth for 3 seconds where you can heal, regen magic and stam, and negate all dots? You’re seriously going to tell me the 2.5 second snare immunity on shuffle is OP? Mist form is OP?

Swallow soul not good...I’m really starting to think you either don’t play Magblade, or you do but zerg/zerg surf.

FrankonPC

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I am saying if you remove shadowy disguise and make a snare removal option in place of it, all you're doing is making people choose between a class heal or snare removal. I don't think you should have to choose to move or heal, so if you remove disguise as it is currently, have another skill provide the removal so you can still slot dark cloak for the heal. This would be in line with what Dks have and not have a do it all skill.

templesus

FrankonPC wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I am saying if you remove shadowy disguise and make a snare removal option in place of it, all you're doing is making people choose between a class heal or snare removal. I don't think you should have to choose to move or heal, so if you remove disguise as it is currently, have another skill provide the removal so you can still slot dark cloak for the heal. This would be in line with what Dks have and not have a do it all skill.

The most logical course of action is to make the base ability remove snares. Then the heal can remove snares as well (it’s not the greatest heal so won’t be OP) and the shadowy disguise morph can be changed to giving something like the minor protection that Dark Cloak currently gives.

Ragnaroek93

kind_hero wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

kind_hero wrote: »

Do you realise that cloak is the defining ability of the nightblade, especially the magicka nightblade?

You keep asking to nerf the cloak to what end? Have you tried playing a magNB and found out that it is way to easy thanks to the cloak? What are your defences in BG as a magNB? You are a mage that can sneak, that's all, but a poor mage, because you lack any burst damage. I main a mnb and cloak does not save me that often, because it is so easy to counter!!! So I can't even imagine what will be fair play to you while fighting a STEALTHY class, the nightblade. Stealth and cloak is the reason I picked this class from the very begining, and at that time I did not had pvp in mind at all... just that cloak is a fun ability a trademark of the nightblade, a rogue/thief class in RPGs. So even if you keep spaming it, there are so many aoe's and dots that get you out of it, you can really use it effectively for a split second, then you really need act - either flee, or reengage in a new attack. But the problem is, once your enemies know you are around and using cloak, they activate their defences, pots, aoe spams, and act weary, so the cloak is not going to work for long.

The whole skill tree of the mnb is imagined to put pressure on the target with snares and dots, but you do not have a burst attack like the stamblade has with snipe, you have to build it up hoping that by the time you get the bow proc your target is still in range or has not destroyed you. I am really wondering if you know what you are talking about, when you discuss cloak nerfs.

So yea, snipe is bad because it is cheap, you do not need much skill to find a sweet spot and keep ganking people. But you can't also just nerf it to the ground, making snipe hit like a wet noodle. Snipers are usually easy to destroy if you get close to them because they fear melee combat, and are not prepaired for it. So each thing has a counter, and the nice thing about PvP is working to find out these counters, finding what works for you and getting better at it. Asking for nerfs on forums is not one of those counters.

Majority of the best magblades don't even use cloak. And no, you don't need it for open world.

Have you tried playing magblade without it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuzJ2N2yg8w

Try pulling that off by spamming Cloak as a magblade lol. You won't.

You want to say stamblade needs cloak spam?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt0qj6YzH9A&t=175s

Yes, he has cloak on his bar but look at how many times he actually uses it. If Cloak increased in cost by 500% for 10 seconds after use, this guy wouldn't even be affected by it. Why? Because he's a good stamblade that knows how to play.

And for a direct comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQcY4GPJU6s&t=1m36s

I'm not even a good stamblade. If you look at the last fight you can see how I literally don't cloak once in the 1v1 and get an easy dub.

Every single night blade that says Cloak is weak is bad.

Cloak is a crutch for bad players. People think that you need Cloak to play a stamblade. You don't. You need skill to play it, arguably less than other classes in the current meta, but flat out removing Cloak wouldn't even destroy the class. It would make it significantly weaker, but the first 2 videos prove you don't need it, and you especially don't need to spam it. The last clip shows the kind of players that crutch on Cloak spam. All you're doing is setting a glass ceiling for yourself by relying on Cloak.

If you don't think Cloak can't be nerfed because it would destroy nightblades...well you're just bad.

So now I am a bad player because I slot cloak? Or because some other players prefer not to use it, is it bad, and since it is bad, should it also become worse, with a nerf? What is the logic? BTW... I am not interested in stamblades, they have access to FM and other tools, I play a magicka nightblade. Also Cyrodiil pvp is different than noncp BG pvp.

This is one of the problems here... many people talk about a very specific situation and playstyle, which they try to overlap to the whole game, including pve, instead of mentioning something like: IN Cp AvA PvP, in 1vX or zerg vs zerg, there is this problem with _insert skill_. My proposal is this, I did a test with this build and came up with these conclusions.... Most people just vent their anger after losing some games or skirmishes.

Also you are referring to your playstyle and preference, which is not optimal or fun for everyone. Same with the OP... don't tell me the skills I use are bad or have to be nerfed, or if you do, come with some constructive feedback which is not going to antagonise players. Saying the ping is low is not really a balance issue.

Again.. stop telling people how to play the game and their chars. (you are telling me that I do not need cloak for the open world, which is clearly a matter of choice, since the open world is the main casual play area of the game).

Your arguments would be valid if the cloak ability would have almost no counter and would create a huge advantage to its user. But it is hardly the case... it is more an annoyance to the one fighting a magblade, and as people know, it has many counters which are not class restricted, this being the reason behind "majority of the best magblades don't even use cloak", as you say. So then, why nerf it or change it? You say it is a crutch for bad players, which I doubt, since it does not make you hard to kill like pre-murkmire shields made you, especially sorc shield. It is convenient to vanish and makes some things easier, same like the sorc's teleport, but does not give you the edge in pvp.

To answer to your question, for pve, I do not slot cloak, but in open world I use it often to skip mobs while questing or travelling. In PvP (I mostly do non cp BGs), I have it slotted, but I do not use it much, because the action is more intense than in zerg pvp where you get heals and buffs for lots of people. As I said.. cloaking does not save you if decent pvp-ers notice you are around. Yes, in Cyro you might find a spot to hide, but in BGs, there is hardly the case or reason to hide, so it really depends so much on the context we are talking.

Don't. Don't argue with magsorc players in this forum. It's pointless.

Lucky28

templesus wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

I’m actually curious, do you people even play magicka nightblade? Because every good m.ag NB on discord would all be happy with the stealth mechanic of cloak being replaced with snare removal.

Furthermore, Mag NB has no class heal? What? Path, Other morph of Cloak, Swallow soul are all staple heals in magblade toolkit.

Cloak changed to snare removal = Rewarding change for good players, nerf for bad players. This is how the game should function.

question is: do you play a magblade. path as it is now, is basically a *** version of rapid reagen. Swallow soul, not good replaced it with force pulse and use drain heal poisons (damn near the same amount of healing when the poison procs). and snare removal is just as op as cloak, so all that change would do is make NB not feel like NB even moreso.

“Snare removal just as OP as cloak”

So removing snares (Forward momentum, shuffle, purify, purge, wings, mist form) are all OP and better then going stealth causing single target abilities to miss and staying stealth for 3 seconds where you can heal, regen magic and stam, and negate all dots? You’re seriously going to tell me the 2.5 second snare immunity on shuffle is OP? Mist form is OP?

Swallow soul not good...I’m really starting to think you either don’t play Magblade, or you do but zerg/zerg surf.

Yes because you don't get *** by snares. thought that was pretty self explanatory, when you take snares out of the equation everything else is trivial.

and no Swallow soul is not good for the cost. As i said, i can get pretty much the same amount of heals by running FP with drain health poisons, only real difference is FP does more damage and does not get reflected. why the *** would i run swallow soul when it doesn't even give minor vitality anymore?.

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Now we have a "Super Nerf" thread. Great. Keep it up guys. Seriously, enough of the nerf threads.

Haashhtaag

templesus wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I am saying if you remove shadowy disguise and make a snare removal option in place of it, all you're doing is making people choose between a class heal or snare removal. I don't think you should have to choose to move or heal, so if you remove disguise as it is currently, have another skill provide the removal so you can still slot dark cloak for the heal. This would be in line with what Dks have and not have a do it all skill.

The most logical course of action is to make the base ability remove snares. Then the heal can remove snares as well (it’s not the greatest heal so won’t be OP) and the shadowy disguise morph can be changed to giving something like the minor protection that Dark Cloak currently gives.

Imo that would make both morphs overloaded skill. You should have to make the tough decision on whether you want snare removal or more healing. It would add to diversity of builds imo.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

Regal_Imp wrote: »

I completely agree, in large enough groups skills like time stop and snipe get more reward with less and less risk.

Cloak is also very strong with little counter play, the few skills that can detect cloaked enemies are a waste of bar space and are way too close range. Cloak should see increased consecutive costs, like streak and roll dodge, to prevent spamming for magblades as well.

Don't even get me started on incap.

Are you kidding? There are way too many ways to detect cloak and completely negate that ability. Nightblades are the only class where one of our abilities can be COMPLETELY negated and unable to use. They've already made it too easy for people to do that. Seriously, if you're in a group, have one person slot flare. Literally gg ez after that. That is one of about 12+ abilities that can shut is down should they get caught out or to close to the action. Please play a Nightblade and learn what pain feels like on their part having your main class defense shut down extremely easily. Also, cloak is unique according to the class. Please stop wanting to homogenize everyone. If a player likes playing stealthy, let them have the ability to play stealthy. If you're getting powned, learn to adapt and put a skill on your bar for such situations or detect potions. Good players choose to adapt if something keeps defeating them. Fortunately for non Nightblades, zos had made the skill ceiling to counter Nightblades extremely low, so it isn't that difficult to adapt.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

coj901 wrote: »

I got annoyed by cloak so I made a stamblade and didn't like it. I tried magblade also I found it to be awfut. I did learn how to counter them 90% of the time. Maybe you should try that.

This. Thank you.

Joosef_Kivikilpi

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Make it more survivable to be a nb without disappearing amd more people will choose it.

Dark Cloak is OP on any build with 27k+ health and my Magblade doesn't use either morph anymore, it will still easily out heal all damage from one person. In PvE Shadowy Disguise has it uses but it isn't necessary, obviously, all classes can do any content. Cloak is fun ofc but it's by far the best spell in the game. Imagine if they deleted classes, what would be the first skill you put on your bar?

This is just ranting. They will never get rid of the skill but I'd like to see a significant cost increase. My Stamblade can perma-cloak with just 1300 mag regen! Or make it cost a different resource, like 30% of your health for _ seconds.

You cannot permacloak with 1300 magic Regen. Just here to refute comments that are similar to Blob's boastful claims of his Nightblade. Mathematics and facts. Cool that you think it's strong and it works, but you cannot permacloak via shadowcloak.

Nebthet78

FrankonPC wrote: »

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Tholian1 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Earthgore is a carry in PvE^^^

I’ve completed all endgame Vet content without earthgore. Tbh it acts as a failsafe mechanic to save groups from deaths when they mess up, essentially carrying them.

It’d do well to make endgame content more difficult and healer reliant by nerfing earthgore. I don’t think any actual endgame player has ever thought earthgore was healthy for Endgame PVE.

If endgame elites feel like a set is a carry. They have the choice not to use it. Simple.

I run trials that aren’t made up of elite players, and we still wipe. Endgame players that can beat content naked and with their eyes closed, shouldn’t even be giving their opinions on the game difficulty for less skilled players. Just my opinion.

I mean this can go two ways. Why should inexperienced players have an opinion on which sets are carries and which sets aren't? The answer is pretty simple, we're all players playing the same game and we're entitled to our opinion.

If you're crutching on a set to beat content, it's a crutch. All of these "elitists" you are talking about had to work to beat the content also, removing easy buttons makes the accomplishment more fun. In my opinion of course.

Content should not be being balanced to suit those end game elitists who can blow through all content, nor should it be balanced to suit the casuals who can only get 5k dps.

The game should be balanced by those in the middle, who work their ass off to do these dungeons much, much more, than a group or 2 of 60k dps players who get together and play in elite guilds like Hodor and Mechanically Challenged. It's nice to have your opinion, but to balance the game around these sort of players is highly detrimental to the game overall.

Just because the elite 1% can blow through this type of content and not bat an eye at it and feels like using certain sets is a carry, doesn't mean the other 30% or so don't need Earthgore to help them out.

This game, and especially end game isn't just for the Elite 1%. It's for everyone!!! ZOS will be making the biggest mistake ever, the day they start cattering and balancing this game around the Elite 1% only.

Earthgore has a long cool down. 35seconds.. A lot can happen in a trial in that time.