Snipe, Earthgore, TimeStop and Cloak all need nerfs.

templesus

On the Class discords (bar Nightblades of course) this seems to be the general consensus that all of these need nerfs and its been communicated to the class reps several times and we have hopes ZOS will listen to them.

In light of recent posts however, I believe it necessary to compile this into the forums as well so ZOS can see that is is an issue here as well.

Currently the aforementioned abilities do nothing but promote unskilled gameplay. There is no need to get better at the game, or learn to use your class effectively, when you can:
1. Spam snipe from on top of keeps or in the back of zergs, which heal debuffs and constantly hits for 5k+ damage as well as desyncing the target.
2. Cloak away from any fight you don’t think you’ll win.
3. Not slot a heal for your group because you’re all wearing earthgore which will completely negate Ulti-dumps.
4. Spam one ability over and over that’s CCs groups and negates healing.

Not one of the four things requires an ounce of skill to operate in this game, and quite frankly, holds this game back in terms of skill:success ratio. Currently with these 4 specifically the game doesn’t reward you for being good and improving your skills, it actively rewards the opposite. This isn’t healthy for any game, period.

Now, I already know this post will get a lot of hate because generally the forums contain a surplus of players who fall into these demographics, however I know that this has been discussed thoroughly with class reps on the discord’s and regardless I have faith that changes will come. This is moreso a compilation of some major pain points from the discords for the forum.

@zos_ginabruno @zos_gilliam

EDIT**:
I am including the proposed solutions that were commented because a lot of people are missing them, and rather responding directly to the post asking for solutions.

Some changes proposed on the Templar discord:

Cloak is given the mist form treatment(no healing or Magicka Regen while cloaked). There’s absolutely no reason for it to function differently. Add snare immunity to base ability to compensate.

Snipe and Bow ult swap, with snipe now being an ultimate and bow ult being the Bow spammable as a channel similar to flurry. Drastically improves bow PvE DPS as well.

Timestop heal negation and snare removed but the animation is sped up to compensate and the CC breaking of it needs to be fixed. <<<Cost increase from Meeting notes is a good start.

Earthgore reworked as a group wide remove all negative effects when you heal an ally below 50%, healing component completely removed. Cooldown reduced to compensate.

Left4Daud

Fought a nightblade the other day that cloaked away after his own Earthgore proc fired off. Just flapped my wings and went the other way

Regal_Imp

I completely agree, in large enough groups skills like time stop and snipe get more reward with less and less risk.

Cloak is also very strong with little counter play, the few skills that can detect cloaked enemies are a waste of bar space and are way too close range. Cloak should see increased consecutive costs, like streak and roll dodge, to prevent spamming for magblades as well.

Don't even get me started on incap.

WildWilbur

Yeah, right, you don't like it so it should be nerfed! The usual daily forum drama. Replaces the morning coffee for some people as it seems...

Chilly-McFreeze

In b4 "anything breaks cloak" and "just Slot a counter "

kind_hero

Nerf cloak? This again? When it can be countered with mage guild skill, potions or debuffs? After all the other nerfs to the nightblade (magicka)?

ZonasArch

I read "everything that kills me or doesn't allow me to kill need a nerf" or "anything I don't have skills to counter needs a nerf".

Seriously... Some skills here and there are in need of some work for sure!, but when you come swinging like this, you pass yourself as a whiner more than a fair complainer. Those are skills that have already been nerfed and worked in, for the most part, and if they aren't being addressed, it's because combat team think they are ok.

As a suggestion, instead of having these seemingly, at first at least, whiny posts, you should gather evidence that those skills need rework. Not just nerfs. Suggest fixes that actually make sense, even. Show the combat team you have a valid point.

As it stands, so many people have been asks for "nerf Nerf nerf" that any nerf thread are treated as jokes by default. Totally trivialized, as shown by my first paragraph.

Sorry you can't l2p, but you can, most definitely improve your posting skills.

Btw, I don't use any of those skills. Except snipe that I use when I can't give chase because crowd control so I don't fall into your category. And I do HATE cloak, but I'm aware it's a l2p issue for me, to deal with cloak. I suck :P and still think your post fail to achieve anything you want.

Colecovision

Buff dark cloak. Make it more survivable to be a nb without disappearing amd more people will choose it.

TBois

Time stop should have its cc fixed since it takes a bit to break free similar to how draining shot works before they fix draining shot. Earthgore needs to have a burst heal or negating ground effect, not both. I don't think snipe and cloak should be nerfed at all and I don't even use either.

templesus

ZonasArch wrote: »

I read "everything that kills me or doesn't allow me to kill need a nerf" or "anything I don't have skills to counter needs a nerf".

Seriously... Some skills here and there are in need of some work for sure!, but when you come swinging like this, you pass yourself as a whiner more than a fair complainer. Those are skills that have already been nerfed and worked in, for the most part, and if they aren't being addressed, it's because combat team think they are ok.

As a suggestion, instead of having these seemingly, at first at least, whiny posts, you should gather evidence that those skills need rework. Not just nerfs. Suggest fixes that actually make sense, even. Show the combat team you have a valid point.

As it stands, so many people have been asks for "nerf Nerf nerf" that any nerf thread are treated as jokes by default. Totally trivialized, as shown by my first paragraph.

Sorry you can't l2p, but you can, most definitely improve your posting skills.

Btw, I don't use any of those skills. Except snipe that I use when I can't give chase because crowd control so I don't fall into your category. And I do HATE cloak, but I'm aware it's a l2p issue for me, to deal with cloak. I suck :P and still think your post fail to achieve anything you want.

All that evidence has already been compounded in the discords, where the true discussions and feedback on balance takes place, directly with the class reps. They have all the evidence and data needed to bring this up to the Devs in the next class rep meeting, thus there is no need to compile it here. This was moreso just a heads up for the Devs of something that’s been majorly discussed recently on the Discords that they’ll hear about in the next meeting.

Thanks for your time commenting.

d3adpain

nerf them all

themaddaedra

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

In b4 "anything breaks cloak" and "just Slot a counter "

Anything breaks cloak, just slot a counter.

Czekoludek

If you cannot break the cloak when opponent is near you and trying to escape, then it is clearly L2P issue. If you want to break cloak, just use AoE, sneak detection skill or potion. Cloak is a defensive skill with so mamy counters, it's funny now that someone have problems with it. But if you constantly died because of it and don't want to slot a counter skill cuz "it is a waste of place on skillbar", then I have a bad news for you. Nerfing cloak even more will not make you great in pvp, only experience and commitment can do that

ZonasArch

Czekoludek wrote: »

If you cannot break the cloak when opponent is near you and trying to escape, then it is clearly L2P issue. If you want to break cloak, just use AoE, sneak detection skill or potion. Cloak is a defensive skill with so mamy counters, it's funny now that someone have problems with it. But if you constantly died because of it and don't want to slot a counter skill cuz "it is a waste of place on skillbar", then I have a bad news for you. Nerfing cloak even more will not make you great in pvp, only experience and commitment can do that

That's the point I was trying to make. I can't deal with cloak because my ping is so high that by the time I see your cloak being broken, I'm already about to be stunned, and mostly likely will die. Very very tiny window for reaction like this. And the answer is not nerfing cloak. For me, is a l2p. Need to react faster. Much much faster. But the other dude thinks this disallows me to criticize the "nerf this, nerf that" crew. Oh well.

Checkmath

I am really excited to fight bosmer stamina nightblades next patch, which when they are on the verge of death do a dodgeroll on the bow bar into cloak and are gone....I think using any aoe, pot or counter skill will be too late, when that nightblade has a 50% speedbuff in cloak....
But that is only my opinion

Zelos

Here we go with the nightblade nerfs... I dont even use cloak I use the heal version because the invisibility is so unreliable. When its good its great and when it doesnt work, its a waste of 4k magicka, a GCD, and a slot on my bar. I think they should remove the 100% crit chance on cloak and put something else there. Other then that detect pots, all AoE, Mark, flare, mage light, expert hunter, etc. etc. all counter it too if it wasn't enough when there is a counter to cloak in the form of a potion skills and all AoE it does not need the streak treatment at all. Otherwise I want a poison that stops a enemy from streaking for 12 seconds or a potion that allows my projectiles to hit through wings. Everyone is like oh bosmer cloaking after dodging will be op and turbo away but wait... this is eso I'm snared for 60% so even after dodge roll and cloak I will be... close to normal speed

Jurand80

I for one wouldn't mind if cloak made you semi transparent like predator. Can't be targeted but can be seen.

Checkmath

Zelos wrote: »

Here we go with the nightblade nerfs... I dont even use cloak I use the heal version because the invisibility is so unreliable. When its good its great and when it doesnt work, its a waste of 4k magicka, a GCD, and a slot on my bar. I think they should remove the 100% crit chance on cloak and put something else there. Other then that detect pots, all AoE, Mark, flare, mage light, expert hunter, etc. etc. all counter it too if it wasn't enough when there is a counter to cloak in the form of a potion skills and all AoE it does not need the streak treatment at all. Otherwise I want a poison that stops a enemy from streaking for 12 seconds or a potion that allows my projectiles to hit through wings. Everyone is like oh bosmer cloaking after dodging will be op and turbo away but wait... this is eso I'm snared for 60% so even after dodge roll and cloak I will be... close to normal speed

You do not use forward momentum or shuffle on your stamnb?

MajBludd

When cloak had the purge that was too much and I played a nb.

So many things pull a nb out of cloak, why does it need a nerf?

Rukzadlithau

MajBludd wrote: »

When cloak had the purge that was too much and I played a nb.

So many things pull a nb out of cloak, why does it need a nerf?

🤢

frostz417

Removing snipe from the game will solve a lot of issues

ChefZero

Give Shadow Disguise 50% increase in duration and costs for example. This wouldn't be a direct nerf but an impact against spamming it. Risk/reward on this skill would be higher.

FrankonPC

1. Agree on snipe. Snipe has one of the highest tooltips available for an ability that allows you to play the furthest away. Nothing like having a stun/defile/22k burst ability by hitting one button from stealth!

Zenimax has come out and said in the past that melee classes should hit harder in PVE because they're up close and they have more risk invested. I agree with this mindset, if you play a brawler and want to risk getting overrun by a larger amount of people, then you should hit harder than a person that can fight and kill someone from 20+ meters away and cloak out before anyone can get in range. There's no risk to snipe, with the highest reward.

2. Time stop has too much going on for it, a snare, healing removed, aoe stun and cheap cost all in the same ability. I remember when Zenimax nerfed fear because it had too large of an aoe effect. Remove the snare, increase the cost. Any class with 1k+ mag recovery can spam this ability(I've done it on my stamblade with tripots).

3. Perma cloak is an issue, and this is an ability that goes in and out of being really effective and being ineffective. I am not sure what the adjustment needs to be, but it's in the "really effective" category right now. Can we at least get stam detect pots...please?

4. Earthgore is an easy button that benefits large groups of players from stacking on top of each other. It takes no skill to proc, and it procs on the person in your group that is getting focused the most. It's proc and the condition with which it procs is extremely powerful. When I run it on my healer I don't even have to heal to keep myself alive. I just heavy attack to get stam so I can go back to block casting, then I resto ult or healing ult and when that's done my earthgore is off of cooldown and it can go off again. It essentially doubles my healing ultimates.
Also, depending on the class that I fight with, there are some classes where I cannot get my ultimate back before earthgore is off of cool down as well, so the proc, the condition in which it procs and the cool down are all problematic for players.

SshadowSscale

Not saying that snipe isnt op but try using it in a close range 1vx Fight...... It isnt as easy as Just spaming it then lol

technohic

Make getting hit while sneaking or cloaked be an automatic crit, plus 20% extra damage. I mean do NBs really fear the counters otherwise?

Tasear

Cause it kills you?

Cause it stops you from killing.

Sounds like you guys just don't like counters.

danno8

These are the things people are having trouble with?

Time stop is nearly never a factor in my deaths in Cyrodiil. It does no damage and takes 3 or 4 seconds to channel/land.

Cloak - yah it can be annoying and I would love to see Radiant Magelight get a buff to 18m or so since it has only 1 defensive function, but other than that it seems ok. Well I think cloaked individuals should still take some damage without being revealed but thats a pipe dram at this point.

Earthgores CD is like 35s or so. Again, I just don't see this as a huge problem. They could increase it to 45s maybe. That's reaonable, but it doesn't seem pressing.

Snipe is a cheap move, but the player using it normally will die very fast once you get to them, since they need to go completely offensively geared to make it worth while to use given the cast time.

Personally I die to coordinated Ulti-dumps far more than any of the cheap tactics/skills listed above.

WillhelmBlack

You forgot Permafrost and Steel Tornado.

WillhelmBlack

Colecovision wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Make it more survivable to be a nb without disappearing amd more people will choose it.

Dark Cloak is OP on any build with 27k+ health and my Magblade doesn't use either morph anymore, it will still easily out heal all damage from one person. In PvE Shadowy Disguise has it uses but it isn't necessary, obviously, all classes can do any content. Cloak is fun ofc but it's by far the best spell in the game. Imagine if they deleted classes, what would be the first skill you put on your bar?

This is just ranting. They will never get rid of the skill but I'd like to see a significant cost increase. My Stamblade can perma-cloak with just 1300 mag regen! Or make it cost a different resource, like 30% of your health for _ seconds.

thankyourat

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

Buff dark cloak. Make it more survivable to be a nb without disappearing amd more people will choose it.

Dark Cloak is OP on any build with 27k+ health and my Magblade doesn't use either morph anymore, it will still easily out heal all damage from one person. In PvE Shadowy Disguise has it uses but it isn't necessary, obviously, all classes can do any content. Cloak is fun ofc but it's by far the best spell in the game. Imagine if they deleted classes, what would be the first skill you put on your bar?

This is just ranting. They will never get rid of the skill but I'd like to see a significant cost increase. My Stamblade can perma-cloak with just 1300 mag regen! Or make it cost a different resource, like 30% of your health for _ seconds.

The only problem with magblade builds like the one you are explaining is they do very little damage. The magblades that can do any meaningful damage are squishy and are going to have to rely on spamming Cloak to stay alive. this wasn't the case before murkmire, but after the shield nerfs you can no longer have both good damage and good survivability so cloak is basically your only option. Nightblades will have to be buffed significantly to make up for a cloak nerf. In the case of magblade they are already probably the worse class in the game right now and honestly couldn't survive more nerfs.

coj901

I got annoyed by cloak so I made a stamblade and didn't like it. I tried magblade also I found it to be awfut. I did learn how to counter them 90% of the time. Maybe you should try that.