PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

TiZzA93

@olsborg pretty much the stam version of high elf

MLGProPlayer

TiZzA93 wrote: »

@olsborg pretty much the stam version of high elf

High elf is already a stam class as of today.

GrumpyDuckling

Bosmer are AGILE (Definition: "Marked by ready ability to move with quick easy grace")
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agile

Bosmer agility isn't about moving at a top speed that is faster than other races, it's about how they are ready to perform quick movements (see: roll dodge) more easily and with grace. It doesn't make sense to give Bosmer an increase in overall movement speed when they perform a dodge roll -- that's not how agility works -- it would make much more sense to give them a reduced cost for dodge roll because they are able to perform agile movements (again, see: dodge roll) more easily than other races.

Here are the reasons why you make this change:
1) It makes sense (I shouldn't have to go beyond this, but I will).
2) It doesn't introduce PVP problems of movement speed.
3) It can be used in both PVP and PVE.
4) It's enough of a nerf to the current PTS version of Hunter's Eye that it allows you to add a flat, permanent bonus to Penetration (which makes perfect sense -- Bosmer are hunters and should excel at targeting their opponents weak spots in their armor).

Thanks for taking the time to read this and seriously consider it for the next round of PTS.
Love,
GrumpyDuckling

olsborg

No one is gonna want to be a bosmer i high end pve for high dps, to gain 1500 measly penetration on something that takes 1.5s to perform instead of keeping up with your rotation...nuhu, no.

Ragnaroek93

High Elves got basically trashed for PvE and are probably not even that strong in PvP compared to other races. I don't really get this nerf.

Woodelves should get the 10% speed and pen permanently, that would be just fair considering what the other races get.

Also LOL at Orcs, 3k max stats, healing, weapondamage and mobility... alright.

Overall the AD races seem to be pretty meh, only Khajiit's might do well with new Mundus stone.

ccmedaddy

The Orc changes are.... interesting. 👀

VeiledCriticism

"High Elf culture is heavily ingrained with the belief of destiny and birthright, so we wanted a passive that highlighted their ability to harness their innate powers, or class. Granting them a unique resource when accessing a class ability really gets that feeling off and makes it much more engaging than the previous flat recovery bonus.

On top of that, High Elves are well known for being powerful spell casters, and we wanted to make this race feel more powerful when they were charging up a powerful ability."

Can someone explain to me what this have to do with getting resources from your lowest resource pool? I really can't understand the reasoning behind it.

The first round of changes to the passives, 4.3.0. was incredibly and surprisingly well done. But now, these so called "tweaks" just seem like after thought work with minimal to zero reasoning behind. I understand that Altmers can't have sustain(even if minimal) and damage. So I would suggest to rework spellcharge to do exactly that, spell charge. Give Altmers damage bonuses when casting a class skill for X amount of seconds or something in that line. Altmers have now, more than in 4.3.0 a long way to be competitive with Bretons, Khajits, and even Dunmers.

About the Dunmers, 3 skill points for flame Resistance and immunity to burning seems like a lot. The Dunmers need some work on that second passive. But please, don't be smart pants and just move the buff for magicka or stamina from the first passive to the second.

It seems like the Argonians got some lobbyists crying for them. Their status was basically returned to live status. Nords almost saw the light of day but Argonians still will reign as the best Tanking class.

Carbonised

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

High Elves got basically trashed for PvE and are probably not even that strong in PvP compared to other races. I don't really get this nerf.

Kind of a stupid comment to make, considering Altmer have just as much spell damage as Dunmer, and even have slightly more Magicka.

So the damage output and pool will be slightly higher on Altmer, while Dunmer has more stamina, and Altmer has stam regen from the new passive. The DPS potential for both as mag DPS is pretty much equal.

So could we please stop the rediculous hyperbole. Altmers are nowhere remotely close to "trashed in PvE".

DeathStalker

Carbonised wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

High Elves got basically trashed for PvE and are probably not even that strong in PvP compared to other races. I don't really get this nerf.

So could we please stop the ridiculous hyperbole. Altmers are nowhere remotely close to "trashed in PvE".

Yes, they did get trashed. Why be an Altmer when you can be a Brenton and easily outclass an Altmer at everything. If this goes live, nobody will be playing Altmers for end game content.

booksmcread

The new stamina return on Altmer is interesting and will probably be very helpful in BGs and Cyro, but I think it would be better if the resource return were split evenly between magicka and stamina.

xaraan

Hiddle wrote: »

"It seems like the Argonians got some lobbyists crying for them. Their status was basically returned to live status. Nords almost saw the light of day but Argonians still will reign as the best Tanking class.

I'm sorry, but I'm not taking anything away from your calls about High Elfs and Dunmer. More power to you to get the changes you want.

But this ridiculous notion that the Argonian passives are OP needs to stop. Going up to 4k each is not that strong and not even what most of us asked for.

In fact, there were several calls to lower it a bit more and add some sort of damage buff in as well to make the class usable in a non-support role for end-game meta. Obviously that isn't the way they want to go, so return a piece of what they nerfed on top of the fact they took away health, stealth nerfed more heal by giving tanks extra mag to have to pull points out of health to raise stam up for tanking, taking away healing in, and taking away poison resist. Still plenty of nerfs.

Also, Nord is the only race that has a passive that can actually make you a better tank. Every other tanking race only has passives that can make the job a bit easier (a job ZoS has made miserable over the last couple of years) but faster Ulti uptime can actually increase the power of what a tank can offer the group. I don't think it's at an OP level, but time will tell, but I definitely don't think giving Argonians a bit more potion return suddenly makes them the only choice for tanking over Nord anymore.

The only reason the potion passive looks strong from the outside is that most of the time a player is already drinking a tri-stat or main-stat potion. Not like it enables the race to only use trash pots b/c it gives so much return. An extra light attack of health in PvP isn't OP, esp when its on a cool down.

But to slam a race that is only good at support, take a player like me that has 10 dps argonians and the only thing I have going for them is the resource return. So whatever I get from that, has to be as worthwhile as every DPS bonus combined on another race and it still makes them laughable to show up with in an end game raid as DPS.

MLGProPlayer

Carbonised wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

High Elves got basically trashed for PvE and are probably not even that strong in PvP compared to other races. I don't really get this nerf.

Kind of a stupid comment to make, considering Altmer have just as much spell damage as Dunmer, and even have slightly more Magicka.

So the damage output and pool will be slightly higher on Altmer, while Dunmer has more stamina, and Altmer has stam regen from the new passive. The DPS potential for both as mag DPS is pretty much equal.

So could we please stop the rediculous hyperbole. Altmers are nowhere remotely close to "trashed in PvE".

They're both junk for PvE.

There is absolutely no reason to use Altmer/Dunmer over Breton or Khajiit.

Zer0oo

Lol my Kitty stam sorc will have better mag sustain than my altmer mag sorc when this goes live. And if i respec my kitty sorc to mag i will out-dps my altmer mag sorc.....


REALLY?

The old resource passive was already not good and realistically only equivalent to ~100mag/reg (by far not 200 like many others say if you take passives and cooldowns into account)

silvereyes

Me for the first two PTS patches:


Me after the Class Rep notes:


Me now:

VeiledCriticism

xaraan wrote: »

But to slam a race that is only good at support, take a player like me that has 10 dps argonians and the only thing I have going for them is the resource return. So whatever I get from that, has to be as worthwhile as every DPS bonus combined on another race and it still makes them laughable to show up with in an end game raid as DPS.

Not to be rude, but seeing that you have 15 argonians, one might say you are biased towards this race.

I do have argonians, and play both PVE and PVP, and I can state how overperforming the race is compared to many other races currently on live. The first changes still made the Argonian an interesting choice to perform tank roles, but allowed others races to compete on the same footing. However, I do think argonians deserved some form of DPS buff, but not reverting their resource buff.

dovakiin5574

I am satisfied with the new changes made to the PTS today. ZoS, well done. I have no further suggestions.

MLGProPlayer

silvereyes wrote: »

Me for the first two PTS patches:


Me after the Class Rep notes:


Me now:

Brian Wheeler making his grand entrance. This guy is already worse than Wrobel, and he's only been here like 2 weeks.

FilteredRiddle

Breton
Spell Attunement: The Spell Resistance granted by this effect will now be doubled if you are afflicted with Burning, Chilled, or Concussed.

I like it.

Imperial
Red Diamond: Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will reduce the cost of Block and Bash by 5%.

This is definitely a step in the right direction. However, I still think it needs to be pushed further, either by reducing the cooldown to 2 seconds or increasing the restoration to 830 Health, Magicka, and Stamina with a 5 second cooldown.

In either case, it makes it so that - assuming 100% uptime of direct damage every 2 or 5 seconds - there is ~166 recovery of the three stats. That is useful, while I'm not sure that 333 H/M/S ever 5 seconds necessarily is (although, again, this is far superior to the previous iteration).

Khajiit
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina bonuses to 825 from 750.
Feline Ambush: Decreased the reduction of your Stealth radius to 3m from 5m.
Robustness: Increased the Magicka and Stamina Recovery bonuses to 85 from 75.

Still the absolute wrong direction for Khajiit. Khajiit are NOT magical.

High Elf
Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.

Totally useless. What a completely crap change.

ThePainGuy

I have mentioned my suggestion in other posts. But i will repeat it in the official racial passives thread.

With PTS 4.3.2 dunmers have had the health removed from the second passive and now it only provides fire resistance/immunity. This is inconsistent with other races that have resistances/immunity to frost/disease/poison. Those races get another bonus on top of the specific damage type immunities/resistance. With this week changes to spell charge for high elves that now provides sustain for your lower resource pool, high elves are in an weird state.

Suggestions:

I think the new spell recharge should be added to dunmers. I think it fits more with their lore and identity. They get bonus magicka and stamina resources. Dunmers are hybrid warriors good at spellcasting and swordsmanship. Thus, magicka dunmers get stamina sustain making them agile spell casters for roll dodging and break free use. And stamina dunmers are great spellswords getting magicka sustain to provide magickal buffs/utility to help in their stamina setup. This new spell recharge should be added to their second passive along with fire resist to compensate for loss of the health stat.

Now altmers are a powerful magicka race with natural affinity for the arcane arts. Now i understand Zos doesn't want altmers to have as much sustain as khajit or bretons, but they should have a small amount of magicka recovery (50-65). In addition the hp benefit that was removed from dunmer should be given to altmer (750-1000 hp). Thus the second passive would provide health (750-1000) and magicka recovery (50-65). High elf still has the magicka sustain nerf compared to PTS week 1 but my suggestion aligns with the lore and is a decent compromise for game balance. Any suggestions or criticisms of my feedback is welcome. Thanks.

dovakiin5574

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Breton
Spell Attunement: The Spell Resistance granted by this effect will now be doubled if you are afflicted with Burning, Chilled, or Concussed.

I like it.

Imperial
Red Diamond: Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will reduce the cost of Block and Bash by 5%.

This is definitely a step in the right direction. However, I still think it needs to be pushed further, either by reducing the cooldown to 2 seconds or increasing the restoration to 830 Health, Magicka, and Stamina with a 5 second cooldown.

In either case, it makes it so that - assuming 100% uptime of direct damage every 2 or 5 seconds - there is ~166 recovery of the three stats. That is useful, while I'm not sure that 333 H/M/S ever 5 seconds necessarily is (although, again, this is far superior to the previous iteration).

Khajiit
Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina bonuses to 825 from 750.
Feline Ambush: Decreased the reduction of your Stealth radius to 3m from 5m.
Robustness: Increased the Magicka and Stamina Recovery bonuses to 85 from 75.

Still the absolute wrong direction for Khajiit. Khajiit are NOT magical.

High Elf
Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525.

Totally useless. What a completely crap change.

Khajiit have always been magically inclined, especially the Alfiq type. The Ohmes and Ohmes Raht are both devoid of any magic ability. Note the Ohmes varieties are most visually similar to Elves. Alfiq are the most cat like. It is fair to assume that the Cathay (player race Khajiit, about midway between the two other types) would have ability for both combat and magic without looking at lore examples. However there are many many examples in lore of Cathay being magically inclined. Cathay Raht however, may not be very magically inclined (taller than Altmer, scary "Jaguar Men")

Arciris

I liked the first iteration of racial passives better as they seemed more balanced in general.

I usually don't offer suggestions but... this time i can't help myself.

Orc:
- Cut stam to 1k, keep 1k health (total of 2k max stats, seems good, 3k is overkill))
- Weapon damage: add a dynamic effect to keep up with the brawler feel, like for example: each light attack adds 30 weapon damage, stacks up tp 10 times. This will not affect PvE - 1k stam and 300 Wp damage is really good but will remove the burst Orc can have in PvP which seems too much considering the utility and tankiness they have.
- Turn the 10% speed into a movement speed bonus instead of just sprint but keep the sprint reduction. (it's a different flavor of snare reduction, a more aggressive one)

Altmer: Spell recharge passive was nice for Stamina Altmers (yes, there's also some of those weirdos around) now it is useless for both magika and stamina. There was no need to change this, in my humble opinion, you nailed it the first time and was consistent with the idea of making races more capable for all specs.

Bosmer: Hunter's Eye - remove the "after roll dodge effect" (very limited) add 3m stealth detection and 3m sneak radius reduction - that way Bosmer can effectively hunt them sneaky Khajiit

Dunmer: keep the 1250 stam from first iteration and push max magika to 2k so they can be equal to Altmer and Breton in terms of magic proficiency, but without the sustain. They'll still be awesome Stam DD (if you cut Orc stam to 1k) but will regain their place as casters.

Nord: rework the ultimate passive (too polemic and problematic) and add an enraged feel to them (drunks can get mad really fast), example: wach light attack adds 25 spell and weapon damage, stacks up to 5 times[/i] With their big stam pool, they will make strong stamina DD in PvE without adding burst to a tanky race in PvP and will throw a bone to magika Nord as well.

Argonian they need something in the damage department, maybe something dynamic too like: each light attack adds 25 spell damage, stacks up to 5 times - reduce healing done to 4% again.

Thanks for reading @ZOS_Gilliam

Finedaible

I'm trying to be patient and reasonable here, but this sums up what i think of both patches:

Patch 4.3.0 arrives: Okay, nothing too extreme, everything seems overall pretty well balanced. Just need a few tweaks here and there in the right direction for one or two races and everything should be alright next patch.

Patch 4.3.2 arrives: Wait... What? Wtf? Why are they changing direction again? Am I missing something here? Why are we taking a step back again?

On a more analytical note:

- Altmer: "Spell Recharge: The return for this passive will now restore your lowest maximum resource, rather than your highest. We also increased the value to 645 from 525."
Changing Spell Recharge to restore the lowest resource? What kind of sustain is that? This change is counter-intuitive to Altmer's strengths (Magicka boi).What kind of playstyle does this help?

- Argonian: "Life Mender: Increased the Healing Done bonus to 6% from 4%. Resourceful: Increased the Health, Magicka, and Stamina restore from drinking a potion to 4000 from 3620."
Increasing Life Mender to 6% is fine since Argonians weren't double-dipping from healing done AND healing received anymore. Increasing the problematic potion restore passive however, only exacerbates a problem they already had before this PTS, ridiculous heals and sustain from chugging ANY potion. Nothing against the potion passive, i just think raising the amount restored, again, is counter to what you've been trying to solve in PvP.

- Bosmer: "Reduced the Movement Speed Bonus granted to 10% from 20%, but added a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration."
I don't even like Bosmer to begin with, but this change is just mindbogglingly dumb. Reducing the speed increase to 10% is fine, but granting them weapon and spell penetration after a dodge-roll may as well not exist, since you won't gain any meaningful benefit from it outside of some incredibly niche battlegrounds build.

- Breton: "Spell Attunement: The Spell Resistance granted by this effect will now be doubled if you are afflicted with Burning, Chilled, or Concussed."
This is okay I think. Nothing really changed here except Bretons are more tanky against certain spells, which kinda fits their magicka resistance in lore.

- Dunmer: "Dynamic: Increased the Max Magicka and Stamina granted to 1875 from 1250. Resist Flame: Removed the Max Health bonus from this passive."
Not sure I understand the motive behind this one, but still sorta meh? Dunmer still seems kinda bland (not unique) but whatever.

- Imperial: "Red Diamond: Reworked this passive so when you deal Direct Damage now, you restore 333 Health, Magicka, and Stamina. This effect has a 5 second cooldown. It also will reduce the cost of Block and Bash by 5%."
No major comments here as I've not played Imperial all that much. Seems better than last pacth though from what I can tell.

- Khajiit: "Lunar Blessings: Increased the Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina bonuses to 825 from 750. Feline Ambush: Decreased the reduction of your Stealth radius to 3m from 5m. Robustness: Increased the Magicka and Stamina Recovery bonuses to 85 from 75."
You almost nailed this change correctly. At least you realized the 75 recovery stats were too small. Stealth reduction is fine, as any race can cap the stealth radius with the right sets. It would have been perfect if you just got rid of the health recovery bonus and gave those points to stamina and magicka recovery (at least 125).

- Orsimer: "Brawny: This passive now grants 2000 Max Stamina instead of 500 Health and 500 Stamina. Unflinching Rage: This passive now grants 1000 Max Health and heals you for up to 600 when you deal damage with a weapon, with a 4 second cooldown. Previously, it granted 4% Healing Taken, and 380 Stamina and Health when dealing damage with a weapon."
That sustain and healing/health nerf hurts. Seems somwehat okay though, i guess? Orc was always loaded with quality of life passives so hard to tell what's a good balance for them.

- Redguard: "Martial Training: Added a bonus that reduces the effectiveness of Snares applied to you by up to 15%."
Stop. Just stop pushing Redguard as the ultimate stamina race. I get that they are great warriors in the lore, but they are dangerously overloaded as it is right now. I can just imagine the amount of Stamina Warden Redguards running around Cyrodill/Battlegrounds if these changes make it to live...

NobleX35

The Orc changes are absolutely ridiculous. Their stat pools were pretty low in the first round of pts, but this seems like a vast over compensation:

1000 health
2000 stamina
600 heal every 4 seconds
258 weapon damage
12% sprint cost reduction
10% movement speed while sprinting

Their health increase seems appropriate, but 2k stam?...thats insane! Their stamina pool should be brought down to 1000.

Also Imperials are still extremely underwhelming. I think the sustain boost is moving the race in the right direction but the numbers are too low for the cooldown. Also the 5% block and bash cost reductions are basically worthless because of diminishing returns incurred from the multiplicative nature of the formula. These bonuses should be changed to something more useful.

Strider__Roshin

I know you guys are stuck on the idea of Nords only being tanks, but if you could increase their Stam bonus to 2k, and make that ult passive proc while in combat rather than just while receiving damage it would actually give them a shot at being decent damage dealers.

TiZzA93

@ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_BrianWheeler idk anyone else to tag

Imperial

2000 health
1750 stamina and magika
Legions might (ditch the cursed red name): Increases dmg done by 1/2/3% and reduces cost of ALL abilities by 1/2/3%

Don't think its too OP or P2W as its minimal sustain so will NOT be bis but opens up option for both dps roles, all ability cost reduction will help tanks and healers too warhorn for example. Zos use this pls loving most of the balances elsewhere i prefer high elfs regen u introduced in first pts and also the lower potion passive, think the lizard could go 3500 potion then 1k mag and stam then my imperial suggestion and everything would be perfectly balanced.

bardx86

Altmer changes are stupid. We had 9% regen on live. Why the hell would you take that away? Sustain has been an issue for like a year now and you want to make it worse? Stupid stupid

josiahva

Imperial changes are STILL GARBAGE. No one cared about the Red Diamond Passive AT ALL...it was the MASSIVE NERF to base stats that we cared about...there is still ZERO REASON to pick imperial for anything...pure garbage. Thanks for ruining my favorite race ZOS and not listening to our concerns about the changes at all. It would be OK if you just added 2000 each maximum health, stamina, AND magicka...plus the red diamond passive as you have it...it would make it a good all around choice....now its only a mediocre choice for tanking...guess what? I liked to swap gear and skills on my imperial and be able to put out ok damage...now that is completely gone...as is the extra health from being an imperial. Why did I buy the imperial package and get screwed again? Pleas answer me that. I dont want Imperial to be best at anything, just useful for something...which it is not right now. I believe your changes may make me stop tanking entirely, since ZOS evidently hates tanks that can do stuff.

P.S. Dunmer changes look ok compared to last week...looks like I am pigeonholed into being Dunmer for utility now

Alaya

Seriously ZOS, seriously.

Hunter's Eye: Reduced the Movement Speed Bonus granted to 10% from 20%, but added a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration.

First you gut Bosmer/Wood Elves stealthy passive which, by the way IS LORE FRIENDLY because they have something called the Rite of Theft so I would assume they can sneak far better than most can, but no, you give it to the Khajiit, who have a tail, how the heck do they hide the tail while crouching down? So now we have this 3m "detection" thing where no one is really gonna use this except in PvP.

Now, you take the dodge rolling, which was decent but needed a slight nerf and add this physical and spell penetration buff after rolling, which is probably more useful in PvP than PvE.

And then you BUFF Redguard further, did I mention it's currently Best in Slot for Stamina classes on live? Oh no? Well, now I have.

You say you want to bring races in line with each other but these changes make some much less appealing for nothing but certain content, pidgenholing them into these roles if they're some of the folks who follow the meta.

I propose that you review your changes and listen to your player base some more, clearly, you're not doing that enough.

Panchaea

ZoS is clearly clueless. Just remove racial passives that influence the meta and let players play how they want with a birthsign system. Christ, how many MMOs gimp you for choosing who you want to be? We already have homogenised issues in the game. That includes, but isn't limited to skills, skill rotations, gear, and CP allocations. The fact that Alcast was able to create a rough framework of how a stamina Necromancer DPS would be clearly shows that we have issues of homogeneity in this game already. How is pigeonholing races going to make that any better if roles are more suited to a handful of races?

Clearly the lore angle is not working, as evident from the Altmer changes. Hell, if you want to use lore as an argument to keep races "unique" (which even then, has failed because flat values bring them all closer ANYWAY) then give Altmer elemental weaknesses as a trade off for the highest magicka pool and damage values. If we're so worried about lore being integral to racial passives, then I demand my Dunmer have the ability to summon his ancestor ghost in fights. Whatever angle they're working off of, they clearly do not understand.

And now Redguards have yet another benefit. We get it, you want people to spend even more money tweaking possibly 10+ characters with race changes and any race, any alliance packs.

It doesn't help that you listen to players who have obvious biases to certain playstyles. A player is not going to know every facet of the game, especially if they only adopt a few playstyles throughout their time in the game.

Steelshiv

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Altmer is officially useless as an endgame magicka race. ZOS, you do *** realize that they were already parsing behind Breton and Khajiit before these changes, right? This is because Breton can use berserker enchant while Altmer can't, and couldn't even before these changes. Here is the math, since you obviously did no actual number crunching yourselves...

Altmer were already behind Breton and Khajiit in testing before these nerfs.

So let's compare the 2 races using basic math:

Spell damage:

Here is where ZOS' balance approach is flawed. They are looking at values on paper, outside of any actual context.

Altmer: +258 spell damage
Breton: +0 spell damage

Looking at this, someone not familiar with the game would assume that Altmer deal more damage. This is of course false. Anybody who actually plays the game would know that sustain is a factor in determining DPS too. Let's compare sustain now.

Sustain:

Breton: +7% cost reduction, +100 magicka recovery
Altmer: +192 magicka recovery (575/6)

Effective magicka recovery:

Breton: +500 (assuming that the average cost of a skill is 3k, they save ~200 magicka every second, or 400 every 2 seconds + 100 from their flat recovery bonus)
Altmer: +192

As you can see, there is a huge descrepency between the two when it comes to sustain. What does this mean? It means that Altmer need to slot a recovery glyph in order to sustain endgame fights. Bretons, on the other hand, don't need to slot a recovery glyph since they have that sustain built into their passives. This means they can slot a Berserker glyph instead. Now let's look at their spell damage numbers again.

Spell damage (again):

Altmer: +258
Breton: +452

All of a sudden, Breton has +200 spell damage on Altmer. Now, this obviously isn't a flat +200 buff since the recovery glyph deals 4k magicka damage too, but it's still enough of a difference to put Breton slightly on top (which was fine).

Nice explanation! I agree with you, am feeling the "my race got nerfed right after my class did" pain, and am wondering what they were thinking. In addition I believe from a neutral standpoint that compared to the other races, alter isn't interesting or viable in PvE or PvP at all.

Ive heard many comments about this change being a cash grab. If ZoS is tight on money I will donate gladly if they would just leave stuff that isn't broken ALONE.