PTS Update 21 - Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Changes

josiahva

Benemime wrote: »

FilteredRiddle wrote: »

Imperials still need to be looked at; I was very disappointed to see no change in today’s patch notes. Posted this in another thread.

Me too. I don't think they are reading this thread either, we are talking for ages about imperials but what do they say about it on patch notes? This:

We were relatively happy with the performance of the Imperial races previously

I don't think they intend to make imperials a jack-of-all-trades at all.

This begs the question: If they were happy with the performance of Imperial race previously, why the hell did they change it? I was happy with how imperials WERE too, but now they are a pretty terrible choice no matter what you are doing...which makes it so my main tank is a worse tank, and also does worse DPS when I swap to my DPS gear/skills...making Imperial good for NOTHING at all, a real disappointment for a non-base game race. No, I would be happy with just +2000 to each stat and leaving red diamond as they have adjusted it...at least that way, they could still be chosen for whatever and still be useful...instead of gimped into the ground

Taloros

Don't like the Bosmer change.

Strangely, the reason given for the change exactly states why it's (in my opinion) not good: detecting stealth is not a universal problem. NPCs don't sneak.

Did something get mixed up there?

Please, just leave it the way it is or duplicate the new Khajit stealth racial.

Or, if it absolutely needs to be different just for being different: give them full speed while sneaking and a minor stealth radius bonus.

IronWooshu

I've said this in many threads and don't want to sound hostile about it but you basically said you wanted to change racials so that every race could play any role yet you effectively pegged Nords as tanks when there was a very simple and easy solution to actually achieve your goal with Nord by opening them up to every role and that is...

Change the ultimate passive to generate ultimate while in combat

This would allow Nords to be considered for heals and considered for DPS as ultimates would defiantly close the gap at least on damage comparables.

@ZOS_Gilliam

Cundu_Ertur

Taloros wrote: »

Don't like the Bosmer change.

Strangely, the reason given for the change exactly states why it's (in my opinion) not good: detecting stealth is not a universal problem. NPCs don't sneak.

Did something get mixed up there?

Please, just leave it the way it is or duplicate the new Khajit stealth racial.

Or, if it absolutely needs to be different just for being different: give them full speed while sneaking and a minor stealth radius bonus.

If it absolutely has to be different between Khajiit and Bosmer, keep the 5m hiding bonus for Khajiit and give Bosmer a 3m hiding bonus (what it was before) and a 2m detection bonus. The mix of stealth and detection fits the Hunter flavor that seems to be the goal.

Urvoth

I’d much prefer a base recovery stat for altmer than a proc that can’t reliably go off.

Tannus15

Breton is amazing for Magsorc. I love it so much. Thank you for this awesome change.

Finedaible

I would imagine a Bosmer using Eternal Hunt and dodge rolling in Battlegrounds could be pretty powerful/annoying.

Ozby

So just took a look on PTS and now it seems Argonians are only good for healers? and not even any decent regen passive, I'm really not happy about this, remove the potion passive and give magika & Stamina regen so my 2 Argonian tanks are not completely useless please. Otherwise I'm going to need at least 3 character change tokens to change my tanks and my Khajiit DD.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Ozby wrote: »

So just took a look on PTS and now it seems Argonians are only good for healers? and not even any decent regen passive, I'm really not happy about this, remove the potion passive and give magika & Stamina regen so my 2 Argonian tanks are not completely useless please. Otherwise I'm going to need at least 3 character change tokens to change my tanks and my Khajiit DD.

The pot passive is equal to 160 regen, for all three resources, when you drink it off cool down, also you get Stam back enven while blocking, no matter the pot you use. Seems great to me.

Ozby

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

So just took a look on PTS and now it seems Argonians are only good for healers? and not even any decent regen passive, I'm really not happy about this, remove the potion passive and give magika & Stamina regen so my 2 Argonian tanks are not completely useless please. Otherwise I'm going to need at least 3 character change tokens to change my tanks and my Khajiit DD.

The pot passive is equal to 160 regen, for all three resources, when you drink it off cool down, also you get Stam back enven while blocking, no matter the pot you use. Seems great to me.

I really feel the pot passive is too gimicky tbh never liked it.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Ozby wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

So just took a look on PTS and now it seems Argonians are only good for healers? and not even any decent regen passive, I'm really not happy about this, remove the potion passive and give magika & Stamina regen so my 2 Argonian tanks are not completely useless please. Otherwise I'm going to need at least 3 character change tokens to change my tanks and my Khajiit DD.

The pot passive is equal to 160 regen, for all three resources, when you drink it off cool down, also you get Stam back enven while blocking, no matter the pot you use. Seems great to me.

I really feel the pot passive is too gimicky tbh never liked it.

Feelings are fine but the numbers don't lie. The passive is very powerful.

Dovahmiim

BrokenGameMechanics wrote: »

I'm concerned about the effect immunity passive. Specifically, the Chill immunity. I play a support build Frost Magden in PvP. I make no effort to deal dmg, but focus on Immobilizes, Stuns, Buff/Debuffs.

My Bars are loaded up with Frost skills. Chill gives Immobilize and Minor Main.

If a Breton has Chill immunity he strolls without a care in the world right through my Frost Blockade. 100% immunity to my Minor Maim debuff.

I don't know, what is the percentage of Bretons in EP? Say 30-50% of all EP players basically laugh at my Frost Mag and stroll right through my Blockade? I would literally have to avoid ever fighting EP altogether and limit myself to contending against DC only.

This cancerous zero counter/skill zergling playstyle is dominating BGs / smallmans atm, and that's coming from someone who used to play it. I wish it was a Breton racial passive instead of Nord, that way I'd have a viable race to have counterplay vs that aids.

spiralvin

The Khajiit spell crit, on top of weapon crit, makes it too powerful for both damage dealing and healing. It makes the Bosmer, who still doesn't have any boost towards magicka, pale in comparison for both stamina and magicka dps, as well as healing.

I suggest lowering the spell and weapon crit % to 4 and 6 respectively, so that the Khajiit can at least remain somewhat faithful to its originally established lore, while making it still viable for either builds.

Likewise, perhaps look into some form of magicka boon for the Bosmer, such as a 75 magicka recovery or 750 Max Magicka bonu, or maybe reimplement the stealth.

sionIV

silvereyes wrote: »

To those worried about the implications for Bosmer thieves of losing their bonus to sneaking, keep in mind that there are sets to give the same exact bonus:

https://eso-sets.com/set/night-mothers-embrace
https://eso-sets.com/set/night-terror

Thieving doesn't exactly involve a lot of fighting, either, so giving up a 3 or 5 piece bonus isn't unreasonable, if you like that play-style. The speed boost is actually a huge buff to thieves, since you can outrun any guards you want.

Throw in a level 4 vampire passive or Night's Silence set for faster sneaking, and you got yourself a pretty unstoppable thief.

Not saying I'm happy about the Bosmer changes, but the impact on thieving shouldn't be bad.

Edit: This is assuming a stamina Bosmer, of course. If you are running magicka, then those sets will loose you a ton of stats from not wearing Light Armor. So ... don't play a magicka Bosmer thief I guess.

Night Mothers Embrace and Night Terror gives +2 each, and this puts them at +4 together. The Khajiit gets +5 from a racial passive. No racial passive should be better than 1x 3 piece set and 1x5 piece set. It doesn't matter if Khajiit or Bosmers get it, the bonus should be +3 at the most.

Kulvar

Suggestions:

Khajiit

• Feline Ambush
  • -2m Stealth Detected Radius (instead of -5m)
• Robustness
  • +0 Health Recovery (instead of +100)
  • +100 Magicka Recovery (instead of +75)
  • +100 Stamina Recovery (instead of +75)

Argonian

• Resourceful
  • +0 Max Magicka (instead of +1000)
  • While you have a potion effect active on you, Increase your Magicka or Stamina recovery by 258, based on whichever is higher (replaced)
• Life Mender
  • +4% Healing Done (unchanged)
  • While you have a heal over time active on you, increase Direct Damage by 4% (added)

KMarble

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Indeed. ZoS may regret that it gave two races the same special role of being great PvE thieves, but the solution is NOT to take that away from one of them 5 years into the life of the game.

As it is now in game we have the choice of two races that are good as thieves with each race being better at one aspect of it. If the racial changes go live, we'll have one race that is good as a thief having both of the skills the game gives you - stealth and light fingers.

I love stealing in the game, it is one of my favorite activities. Having two races that were good at it, but in different ways, forced me to create another character and try new things. If the changes go live, there will be fewer options for people who enjoy stealing and pick pocketing.

The change will narrow our options.

KMarble

silvereyes wrote: »

To those worried about the implications for Bosmer thieves of losing their bonus to sneaking, keep in mind that there are sets to give the same exact bonus:

https://eso-sets.com/set/night-mothers-embrace
https://eso-sets.com/set/night-terror

Thieving doesn't exactly involve a lot of fighting, either, so giving up a 3 or 5 piece bonus isn't unreasonable, if you like that play-style. The speed boost is actually a huge buff to thieves, since you can outrun any guards you want.

Throw in a level 4 vampire passive or Night's Silence set for faster sneaking, and you got yourself a pretty unstoppable thief.

Not saying I'm happy about the Bosmer changes, but the impact on thieving shouldn't be bad.

Edit: This is assuming a stamina Bosmer, of course. If you are running magicka, then those sets will loose you a ton of stats from not wearing Light Armor. So ... don't play a magicka Bosmer thief I guess.

Too late. My Bosmer petsorc is around CP 500 and is about to finish Cadwell's Gold. I steal while doing quests. If there is an inn/tavern in the area, it will be the first place I go. I could go around with one of the sets you mentioned in my backpack, but the chances of me remembering to change my outfit before going in to steal and after going out to quest are slim to none.

There is also the little part of me that was hoping I could make my Bosmer into an even better thief by using those sets once I was done with questing and ready to steal everything not nailed down in Tamriel.

ccmedaddy

Kulvar wrote: »

Argonian

• Resourceful
  • +0 Max Magicka (instead of +1000)
  • While you have a potion effect active on you, Increase your Magicka or Stamina recovery by 258, based on whichever is higher (replaced)
• Life Mender
  • +4% Healing Done (unchanged)
  • While you have a heal over time active on you, increase Direct Damage by 4% (added)

how do I delete someone else's post

Alucardmike

silvereyes wrote: »

To those worried about the implications for Bosmer thieves of losing their bonus to sneaking, keep in mind that there are sets to give the same exact bonus:

https://eso-sets.com/set/night-mothers-embrace
https://eso-sets.com/set/night-terror

Thieving doesn't exactly involve a lot of fighting, either, so giving up a 3 or 5 piece bonus isn't unreasonable, if you like that play-style. The speed boost is actually a huge buff to thieves, since you can outrun any guards you want.

Throw in a level 4 vampire passive or Night's Silence set for faster sneaking, and you got yourself a pretty unstoppable thief.

Not saying I'm happy about the Bosmer changes, but the impact on thieving shouldn't be bad.

Edit: This is assuming a stamina Bosmer, of course. If you are running magicka, then those sets will loose you a ton of stats from not wearing Light Armor. So ... don't play a magicka Bosmer thief I guess.

I am using these sets and now I am more or less invisible for NPC/Guards. Without the bonus, I am not. The speed doesn't help me, because I never use this roll.

zaria

Kulvar wrote: »

Suggestions:

Khajiit

• Feline Ambush
  • -2m Stealth Detected Radius (instead of -5m)
• Robustness
  • +0 Health Recovery (instead of +100)
  • +100 Magicka Recovery (instead of +75)
  • +100 Stamina Recovery (instead of +75)

Argonian

• Resourceful
  • +0 Max Magicka (instead of +1000)
  • While you have a potion effect active on you, Increase your Magicka or Stamina recovery by 258, based on whichever is higher (replaced)
• Life Mender
  • +4% Healing Done (unchanged)
  • While you have a heal over time active on you, increase Direct Damage by 4% (added)

258 recovery is kind of high. You are trading one enchant for 2. You would always have potion up in an serious fight anyway.
On the other hand Argonians might be nerfed to hard, i would rather reduce the nerf on potion effect.
This will help tanks.

Opposite for Khajiit.
Its an re-balance + an nerf, yes I would buy that as mostly pve. And you use utility sets for stealing.
I ask for more 1000 rather than 750 in all resources or something. 128 magic and stamina regen is to much:)

Ozby

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

So just took a look on PTS and now it seems Argonians are only good for healers? and not even any decent regen passive, I'm really not happy about this, remove the potion passive and give magika & Stamina regen so my 2 Argonian tanks are not completely useless please. Otherwise I'm going to need at least 3 character change tokens to change my tanks and my Khajiit DD.

The pot passive is equal to 160 regen, for all three resources, when you drink it off cool down, also you get Stam back enven while blocking, no matter the pot you use. Seems great to me.

I really feel the pot passive is too gimicky tbh never liked it.

Feelings are fine but the numbers don't lie. The passive is very powerful.

And I still don't like having to use pots all the time sorry, would still rather have it as regen.

silvereyes

FYI, I've updated my speed test comparison of Hunter's Eye vs. Orc Swift Warrior.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5781301/#Comment_5781301

• Added videos of the tests
• Added stamina burn rates for CP and no-CP
• Added notes on how to get the most out of dodge roll sprinting with both Hunter's Eye and Hasty Retreat passive from the Bow skill line.
• Optimized Bosmer CP allocation a bit.
• Did some more math about farming with speed boost sets.
• Added some notes about no-CP PvP usage.

Kulvar

zaria wrote: »

258 recovery is kind of high. You are trading one enchant for 2. You would always have potion up in an serious fight anyway.
On the other hand Argonians might be nerfed to hard, i would rather reduce the nerf on potion effect.
This will help tanks.

Opposite for Khajiit.
Its an re-balance + an nerf, yes I would buy that as mostly pve. And you use utility sets for stealing.
I ask for more 1000 rather than 750 in all resources or something. 128 magic and stamina regen is to much:)

Not really trading 1 enchant for 2 as my suggestion remove the "restore X health/magicka/stamina" effect of the racial to replace it by a boost.

It's a PvP nerf as it prevent a sudden recovery of every pool, but it may be a on par for PvE with a focus on the main ressource recovery.
As you said, potions are almost always up in PvE, that's why I suggested it gives only 1 bonus to recovery. I'm open to other ideas. Numbers I provide are unpolished, I don't have the data Zenimax has to balance values.

Strider__Roshin

IronWooshu wrote: »

I've said this in many threads and don't want to sound hostile about it but you basically said you wanted to change racials so that every race could play any role yet you effectively pegged Nords as tanks when there was a very simple and easy solution to actually achieve your goal with Nord by opening them up to every role and that is...

Change the ultimate passive to generate ultimate while in combat

This would allow Nords to be considered for heals and considered for DPS as ultimates would defiantly close the gap at least on damage comparables.

@ZOS_Gilliam

This is actually a good point.

winterbornb14_ESO

LEAVE THE IMPERIAL HEALTH PERCENTAGE PASSIVE ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is NO need to kill Health Tanks.

Tigerseye

Taloros wrote: »

Don't like the Bosmer change.

Strangely, the reason given for the change exactly states why it's (in my opinion) not good: detecting stealth is not a universal problem. NPCs don't sneak.

Did something get mixed up there?

Please, just leave it the way it is or duplicate the new Khajit stealth racial.

Or, if it absolutely needs to be different just for being different: give them full speed while sneaking and a minor stealth radius bonus.

Yeah, it's going to be completely useless for PVE.

Worse than useless, in fact, as we're going to lose something that is actually fairly useful (in casual PVE) to make way for it.

I don't PVP here, so I can't speak for that - but, from what most people who do have said, it's not going to be that useful for that, either.

It's like they just wanted to add this, to make it look like they were counterbalancing improved stealth and Bosmer drew the short straw...

Unless they are about to add lots of stealthing NPCs in delves, dungeons and trials, which Bosmers alone will become useful for finding, I can't see how this is anything but a wasted racial slot, in PVE?

Tigerseye

spiralvin wrote: »

The Khajiit spell crit, on top of weapon crit, makes it too powerful for both damage dealing and healing. It makes the Bosmer, who still doesn't have any boost towards magicka, pale in comparison for both stamina and magicka dps, as well as healing.

I suggest lowering the spell and weapon crit % to 4 and 6 respectively, so that the Khajiit can at least remain somewhat faithful to its originally established lore, while making it still viable for either builds.

Likewise, perhaps look into some form of magicka boon for the Bosmer, such as a 75 magicka recovery or 750 Max Magicka bonu, or maybe reimplement the stealth.

I play a Bosmer Stam Warden.

Magicka won't help me much.

Bosmers are supposed to be good with bows and therefore, more of nature, rather than of magic.

Lorewise, they seem to be more of nature, too.

So to boost Stamina (or, perhaps, both equally) would be more logical, I would have thought?

silvereyes

Adenoma wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam , unlike hasty retreat the wood elf passive for speed applies at the start of dodge roll and is used up during the animation. That ends up giving you more like 2.5s of speed.

@ZOS_Gillam, please change Hunter's Eye so that the buff starts at the end of the roll like Hasty Retreat. Not only do we lose time on the buff from the roll itself (which was closer to 1s in my tests, not 1.5s), but the dodge fatigue debuff currently ends at exactly the same time as Hunter's Eye.

Hunter's Eye will necessarily drop off in the time between the end of fatigue and the next roll as it stands. That coupled with needing to let off sprint to dodge roll makes the passive feel clunky.

Kulvar

Do you think +5m range for all bow skills on Bosmer would be a nice addition to their +3m stealth detection radius ?
It doesn't improve damage, but it could have use.

Alucardmike

Kulvar wrote: »

Do you think +5m range for all bow skills on Bosmer would be a nice addition to their +3m stealth detection radius ?
It doesn't improve damage, but it could have use.

If the stealth detection would be changed back in better stealth, I am with you.
But stealth detection is useless. Even for PVP.