PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed a few nonconstructive comments and a few more that were off topic. Reminder to keep comments civil.

exeeter702

oxygen_thief wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

want to reward the caster who maintains an optimal range and strong postion, and punish the caster who abandons any care for good positioning and is caught out. Naturally, a melee will be at an advantage when closing the gap where the casters primary goal is to create distance.

there is no such a thing as "ranged combat" in this game except sieges in cyro where you can shoot players below from a keep wall. every "melee" build can just jump on you from 22 meters, hit you with their 5 meter length sword, bash your face with their 5 meter length shield.

Ranged combat exsists. Its just heavily burdened.

Alaztor91

Still no reply from ZOS? How can you call adding a cast time to damage shields balance when the other 2 forms of defense(dodge roll and block) have none?

My hardened ward tooltip is less than 9k in no-cp(I know shields are stronger in cp, but for simplicity lets just use no-cp values) and my own spammable a bit less than 6k, so are you telling me that a defense that costs 1 gcd to use and dies more or less against 1 gcd(spammable + light attack) from ONE attacker is too strong? and needs to have a cast time added to it?

ku5h

Daus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Hello,

For starters I'd like to say that what you've done to damage shields is wonderful for balance, and you should stick with your changes. Hardened Ward and Harness Magicka should be used pre-engagement, and Healing Ward (an instant cast) should be used as a life saving maneuver.

Now that we've finally addressed shields we need to address sorcs. Their arsenal isn't very well equipped for survival without the use of shields so before these changes go live I would like to see two things happen:

1) Blood Magic passive - have it so you are healed for a % of damage done by all class abilities. Not sure what number would be balanced; that would require testing.

2) Bolt Escape - make this ability behave like dodge rolling in the sense that it breaks roots, and most importantly you can streak in any direction without changing your character's direction. Meaning you can continuously Bolt Escape backwards. This would greatly improve their ability to stay at range.

I'm all for the damage shield nerfs, but magsorcs do need something to improve their survivability.

P.S. Also make Crystal Blast proc like Frags please.

Yes, please keep listening to the nightblades and balance sorc like this. Then the subscription losses will continue until the layoffs start. I have to wonder, how much money have you lost since yesterday, and how much more will you lose?

When it comes to balance, damage shields is a topic that you and I are simply not going to agree on (it's like politics lol), but I would like to focus on the areas that we could agree on instead. Do you not like the suggestions I gave?

Sure, they're great. That 800 heal I get from blood magic is going to save me from your 10K incap crit and defile while I'm busy recasting shield.

You'll never kill me in two and a half seconds!

The shield cast time is such a great idea, they should put it on cloak too!

My suggestion was to change Blood Magic so that all your class abilities function similar to Puncturing Sweeps; the more damage you deal the more you get healed.

As for how to deal with Incap; my suggestion about how to change Bolt Escape would immediately help you close the gap where you could then quickly using healing ward with the new Blackrose resto and pop combat prayer. Personally I camp on light's champion for when I do get hit hard. Either way the magsorc's strength is at range; the stamblade's strength is within melee range. Try to stay in your position of strength, and avoid theirs.

When will you ppl stop arguing that "your range is your advantage" bullcrap. Between snares and gap closers, staying on top of your target was never an issue and that was pre swift. Now stam player literally runs circles around you while fighting you and get a free skill slot for not having to have gap closer anymore.

TBois

I find nightblades more effective at keeping me out of range than sorc on live. That is only if I'm not running forward momentum, and then if I'm running shuffle it's still pretty easy to stay within melee range.

Jake1576

lol this thread has 19k views now that's a lot lol

ku5h

TBois wrote: »

I find nightblades more effective at keeping me out of range than sorc on live. That is only if I'm not running forward momentum, and then if I'm running shuffle it's still pretty easy to stay within melee range.

This. MagNB can do that to some extent with cripple and if you use hindering poisons, you can be pretty annoying to someone not running Momentum, but sorc can't. Ultimately that is a non issue because 95% of stam is running snare removal.

MipMip

Derra wrote: »

Ok actual feedback - as my other feedback was apparently not constructive enough:

The class is not in a playable state for pvp with the changes to shields. Having tested no shield and shield builds on pts.
It´s flatout unplayable and no further feedback can be given before the class is atleast back in a semi competetive state.

You can´t give feedback how a cars driving when you pull of the tires.
That´s what you´ve done to sorc.

You can´t expect feedback when you break something so bad it flatout doesn´t work anymore.
Or atleast you can´t deem it unconstructive when the only feedback you get after doing that is:
It doesn´t work.
Which is sadly all i can really say about it.

It´s not on the players to give feedback now. It´s on ZOS to accept that what they´ve done is such a monumental failure that they should get back to the drawing board - to create something that´s atleast worthy of feedback longer than: It doesn´t work.

Gave this an agree!
If this change goes live it removes Sorc from PvP

MipMip

eory-s_reb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have removed a handful of non-constructive comments from this thread. Please ensure that the discussion remains civil and free of bashing. Thanks for your understanding.

Make constructive changes - not like your last patch notes - so players also can be constructive! You really can't blame players for being disappointed, sad and angry right now...

Gave this an agree too! I love(d ?) this game, I love my class, and I am so disappointed, sad and angry about this proposed change

Hymzir

Derra wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

And that stuff has been going on for years, and for years the player base has told ZOS to do something about it. But they haven't. And people have grown accustomed to it. There's this build that is so much more optimal in any situation that anything else really, and that's the one pretty much everyone is playing. The style over performed so much that it became the standard - you either played that one build of sorcs, with minuscule variations between players, or you were a pet sorc. This change seems, to me at least, as an attempt to do something about that. To force build variety and to mix things up.

Just that it´s not like you say it is - you´ve got it backwards.

It´s not an overperforming build that´s way to powerful. It´s the only build that is powerful enough to compete with the other classes.

You can´t mix things up because everything else at your disposal is simply subpar and using it will yield a subpar result compared to ANY other class.

I feel you're missing the point here...

The key thing to understand is that, the playstyle in question is the reason why ZOS is nerfing shields. And the justification behind that move is exactly what you yourself said: Compared to it, any other sorc build option is subpar.

Now, whether that build and playstyle is the only thing that works for sorcs, is not relevant. What is, is that it is so clearly demonstrably better than anything else available for sorcs.

ZOS thinks that the other build options are good too. They think that shield based play is over performing, and want to pull them in line with the other options, and that it is performing in a manner that does not match their vision for the gameplay. They seem to want to make shield use an active decision instead of being a reactive counter to taking damage. Thus the decision to add brakes on shield spamming. With the change, shields no longer work as a steady phantom buffer of health the user is constantly refreshing, and thus serving as the primary form of defense for the caster. They are now temporary buffs you cast in order to be able to take the offensive.

Whether they are right or wrong to think that way, is another topic in itself, and ultimately the one I want to be addressed. But as long as the meta remains as it is, as it has been for the past 4 years, none of those other issues are going to be dealt with.

And yes, just as I said before, I fully expect the alternative builds and play styles, that would emerge should this change go forth, to be weak. Weaker than the prevailing meta, and quite possible weaker than most of the builds and playstyles of other classes. It would take several updates worth of tweaks to get sorcs back up to speed. But first we need to change the meta, before any of those other changes can happen.

The real thing people should be irked about is not the change itself, but the fact that it took this long for ZOS to finally do something about it. The issue of shieldstacking sorcs is not a recent one. It has festered for years. And any attempt to change it is obviously gonna be met with heavy resistance. But the change is still necessary. At least in my opinion, as far as the good of the game is concerned.

I fully expect many long time sorcs to drop the game due to this change, and I fully understand why they would do that, and they will be missed. But I also feel that the the move is going to prove better for the game in the long run. The current sorc meta just isn't a good match to where the game is heading towards.

Well, that's what I think, and you are entitled to disagree. And am not gonna debate the point with anyone. It's not like we have any extensive scientific studies at hand to say one way or another about it. Just our own subjective experiences from playing the game, and were are all voicing just opinions about what we think is the best way to go forward. It's an important topic, and that's why I too want to say what I think about it. In the end, it is for ZOS to decide what tehy're gonna do.

JadonSky

Adding a cast time to a sorc shield ability takes the essence away from a sorc. It would be like doing the same thing to a NB cloak ability. They would not survive if you added a cast time to cloak as the sorc will not survive with the cast time to there only defense. Sorcs don't have a good self heal. I have never went up against a sorc and got frustrated that they shield stack that's just how they defend themselves. Just like a NB cloaks and a magplar uses breath of life to survive. I don't understand the problem people have with shield stacking. I hate that NB can cloak away any time I chase them but I don't think it should be removed

JadonSky

For those who have not gotten on PTS. Here is a video from Alcast. https://youtu.be/B087K6AdPMM

Faulgor

Daus wrote: »

My suggestion was to change Blood Magic so that all your class abilities function similar to Puncturing Sweeps; the more damage you deal the more you get healed.

That's how Crit Surge used to work. It was ... pretty strong. I'm not against such a change for PvP if shields indeed end up nerfed somewhat, but for PvE this might make healers even less useful.

exeeter702 wrote: »

Another thing as food for thought, what about sorc shields as a channel. Keep the resistance changes, give the channel a 2 second max duration, as you channel, the damage shield increases, thus the longer you channel the stronger the sheild. At a full channel, the damage sheild is noticeably stronger than harden ward is on live, at 1 sec channel, the value is where we are at on live so on so forth. The duration of the sheild counts down when the channel ends and magicka cost is drained in real time while channeling. This way, if the sorc is able to los or repostion, they can get a strong shield up and go back in, and if they are in a bad spot, they can potentially spot shield while having to be mindful of interrupts.

I suggested as much in another thread as a possible compromise.

Faulgor wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

They should have made all damage shields scale off health. Problem solved.

Oh great ... that again.
Yeah sure, let's slap the biggest, meanest shields on tanks that already barely take any damage and have huge HP pools b/c that's not gonna be balanced. And at the same time leave Light Armor builds which are inherently very squishy with very small shields.

That idea even trumps the 1 sec cast time in terms shortsightedness.

Umm. That is EXACTLY what ZOS did. The health-scaling shields remained instant. You can build a 90K hp tank today or next patch and spam bone shield all you want, and it is balanced because it is self limiting...stack too high in one area and you become ineffectual in the other required areas.

The entire gripe about shields is that you could build for full offense and get giant shields at the same time.

If they all scale from health, the player to make the build decision how much offense do you want to give up for defense, and what is the best, most efficient mix...just like you do today balancing damage vs sustain (or mitigation, or health regen, or health, whatever). It is hook that keeps people playing of this type of game and why there are thousands of build videos and an audience to actually watch them.

That's really the crux of it, and has been for 4 years. Health-scaling shields are not an issue because you gain defense by stating for defense. It's always been magicka scaling shields that have been a balancing issue, and that ZOS decided to only give those a cast time shows that they are very aware of the difference, even if it's not discussed a lot on the forums right now.

Ideally, you wouldn't gain more defense the more you put into your offensive stat. Of course, this is also a bit of an issue with healing, although it's not as pronounced for a few reasons (e.g. healing CP in the same tree as offensive perks). So to streamline all shields to scale with health seems intuitive at first.

Problem is, obviously, that shields are currently the only viable form of defense for light armor magicka builds, and health-scaling shields would not be enough for them without being overpowered for health builds. Conceptually, adding a cast time to counter the benefits of magicka shields is not entirely stupid, it just doesn't work for the purpose shields have to serve. Honestly, I think we should either accept that mages can have their magicka-cake and eat it too, or purposefully redesign magicka shields to offer a comparative defense to blocking and dodging.

Comparative means
a) To be used situationally, not all the time
b) Not being able to attack at the same time
c) Consuming magicka instead of stamina
d) Should not be interruptable

Yes, b) would make it kind of a nerf. But I think even here there can be some compromises.
We don't even have to reinvent the wheel. Skyrim already introduced something like this: Restoration Wards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToveYadszIc

Channel
Cost: x Magicka per second
Effect: Create a damage shield that increases by y per 0.5 seconds up to z shield strength. After the channel ends, the shield dissipates after t seconds. Can't be interrupted.

The specific values are of course up for debate, but this seems like a good compromise that is in line with other defensive mechanics in the game and the TES IP as a whole. You can use such a channeled ward reactively and preemptively, it can keep you alive for as long as you have magicka but is not reapplied fully in the blink of an eye, doesn't open you up completely and is not interruptable. And if you have the foresight to use it preemptively, you can still attack while your shield is up like before.

Lokov

M'kay ZOS...
Stop listen lame hamsters and leave the sorcs without changes. Sorcs is totally fine now, after you make changes with rune and execute.
Its not normal that damage shields gonna have cast time. ~ 95% of all attacks is instant, so why main defensive skill of light armor class gonna be with cast time?
Most stupid changes ever, like when CP system comes.
Just delete CP at all and u will see how balance will come. Give all classes and items pre-CP stats. Without CP it is much easier to balance the game.
CP is additional load of the server when calculating damage (inc/out)
CP leads to constant distortions cuz CP is growing and changing everything.
Without CP shields not so big cuz bastion star is not active
Without CP shields not so strong cuz no hardy / elem defender / ironclad / thick skinned (maybe surprise for someone but this stars affect on shields as well)

On CP PvP shields is really strong, but not on non-CP

Aaaand don't touch overload pls. 3rd pannel is FEATURE of sorcerer! Like NB's stealth or mag DK's AOE skills
Be not conducted on a string at tolerast. This game is good uniqueness of each class. Don kill it please.

IAVITNI

Beardimus wrote: »

Personally, id have created a class reps program to avoid all these problems.

Rather than just dream up changes no one wants to problems no one mentioned - which is ALWAYS going to get backlash what I would do is get the community to vote in say 10 balanced expereinced players, i'd get them some threads on here, get them to setup discords to discuss stuff.

I'd meet with them, hear their feedback and factor it into plans / changes. I'd also listen to feedback following PTS launches and those threads etc.

oh hang on... think we did 99% of that just that last 1% missing.

Just going to quote this.

FYI, it was the reps who got the Defile uptime in Wolfhunter to come down after ZoS brilliantly thought decreasing duration was fine despite the ability to reapply the debuff every second.

Honestly, can ZoS just listen to the reps. I may have my disagreements with some over particularly niche mechanics, but for overall balance, they are very well informed and objective imo.

IAVITNI

Hymzir wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

And that stuff has been going on for years, and for years the player base has told ZOS to do something about it. But they haven't. And people have grown accustomed to it. There's this build that is so much more optimal in any situation that anything else really, and that's the one pretty much everyone is playing. The style over performed so much that it became the standard - you either played that one build of sorcs, with minuscule variations between players, or you were a pet sorc. This change seems, to me at least, as an attempt to do something about that. To force build variety and to mix things up.

Just that it´s not like you say it is - you´ve got it backwards.

It´s not an overperforming build that´s way to powerful. It´s the only build that is powerful enough to compete with the other classes.

You can´t mix things up because everything else at your disposal is simply subpar and using it will yield a subpar result compared to ANY other class.

I feel you're missing the point here...

The key thing to understand is that, the playstyle in question is the reason why ZOS is nerfing shields. And the justification behind that move is exactly what you yourself said: Compared to it, any other sorc build option is subpar.

Now, whether that build and playstyle is the only thing that works for sorcs, is not relevant. What is, is that it is so clearly demonstrably better than anything else available for sorcs.

ZOS thinks that the other build options are good too. They think that shield based play is over performing, and want to pull them in line with the other options, and that it is performing in a manner that does not match their vision for the gameplay. They seem to want to make shield use an active decision instead of being a reactive counter to taking damage. Thus the decision to add brakes on shield spamming. With the change, shields no longer work as a steady phantom buffer of health the user is constantly refreshing, and thus serving as the primary form of defense for the caster. They are now temporary buffs you cast in order to be able to take the offensive.

Whether they are right or wrong to think that way, is another topic in itself, and ultimately the one I want to be addressed. But as long as the meta remains as it is, as it has been for the past 4 years, none of those other issues are going to be dealt with.

And yes, just as I said before, I fully expect the alternative builds and play styles, that would emerge should this change go forth, to be weak. Weaker than the prevailing meta, and quite possible weaker than most of the builds and playstyles of other classes. It would take several updates worth of tweaks to get sorcs back up to speed. But first we need to change the meta, before any of those other changes can happen.

The real thing people should be irked about is not the change itself, but the fact that it took this long for ZOS to finally do something about it. The issue of shieldstacking sorcs is not a recent one. It has festered for years. And any attempt to change it is obviously gonna be met with heavy resistance. But the change is still necessary. At least in my opinion, as far as the good of the game is concerned.

I fully expect many long time sorcs to drop the game due to this change, and I fully understand why they would do that, and they will be missed. But I also feel that the the move is going to prove better for the game in the long run. The current sorc meta just isn't a good match to where the game is heading towards.

Well, that's what I think, and you are entitled to disagree. And am not gonna debate the point with anyone. It's not like we have any extensive scientific studies at hand to say one way or another about it. Just our own subjective experiences from playing the game, and were are all voicing just opinions about what we think is the best way to go forward. It's an important topic, and that's why I too want to say what I think about it. In the end, it is for ZOS to decide what tehy're gonna do.

Shield stacking was only an issue because it was so sustainable. A magblade or magden can reach magicka pools just as high as a magsorc, except their healing/damage/sustain does not take as big of a hit. The only reason sorc outperforms both in open world is due to Streak. Dueling wise, Sorc falls in the middle.

IF they simply nerfed Harness and changed magicka scaling, those high magicka pools would mean less, shields would be weaker, resources would be more universally strained, and sorcs would naturally have to invest into defences, but only to the same degree that other classes do.

What a lot of people fail to realize is that sorcs tend to run the highest stat sheet recoveries of all the classes. In a sense, this IS sorcs investing into defence. Shield stacking is the most costly defence mechanic out there vs stamina characters due to how often they must be recast to protect the light armor underneath.

That's where the balance hammer should have hit. Not a cast time.

And I actually disagree with the Crit damage change. Shields cannot crit and therefore they should not be subject to crits. However, they should have been affected by penetration (probably to a different degree than armor). I like the Resistance change because it means that, assuming the cast time is rightfully removed and ZoS develops an understanding of the concept of balance, shield stacking is presented with the alternative of Lightning Armor+Hardened/Harness. That's true diversity. Not this pigeon-hole into heavy that does not work btw. I tried it as a gag once. It sucks.

Crit heals are very strong. If my Honour the Dead crits on my light armor Magplar, I've literally healed for around +18k all at once if I'm standing in both Rune and Purify, just happened less than 20 minutes before posting this. So a non-crit defensive mechanic is balanced if it can't crit. Arguably it's more balanced because it reduces the RNG component since everything is constant numbers.

That said, the Crit damage changes are something I can accept, even if I don't agree. However, the cast time is simply a clear indicator that the leadership at ZoS has no idea how this game is played and that they have no clear vision for any class. Shields were reduced to 6 seconds to make them more reactive, and now they say they want it to be proactive. They go back on these types of changes that nobody asks for but they refuse to go back on Battle Roar or Frag stun changes. How about the fact that they FINALLY balanced Mark, but they leave Shield Breaker alone despite the fact that Cloak wasn't even touched and leave the hardest counter in the game to the mechanic that they make into absolute trash.

Turn the dev team into Yes (wo-)/men and just have them listen to the reps because all the positive changes for the other classes were literally suggested by the reps. This entire sorc fiasco was predictable based on the notes, as the reps stated there was a lot of pushback when it came to frags and sorc in general. And I have my disagreements with what the reps say/consider to be balanced, however at least their is logic to their reasons. ZoS is just floundering. Maybe if they had more than 5 people working on combat balance and that team lead actually knew how this game worked we'd be better off. When a well-built sorc with working shields can lose to a 40k heavy armor tank with no damage skills except Shield Breaker light attacks, you know incompetence is rampant.

Edit* People seem to forget the bleed/status effect changes done to shields. Definitely a huge QoL change for the better, but one that also has significant impact and therefore should not be overlooked.

Cinnamon_Spider

Cast time on Hardened Ward is the worst idea. Ever.

Derra

Hymzir wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

And that stuff has been going on for years, and for years the player base has told ZOS to do something about it. But they haven't. And people have grown accustomed to it. There's this build that is so much more optimal in any situation that anything else really, and that's the one pretty much everyone is playing. The style over performed so much that it became the standard - you either played that one build of sorcs, with minuscule variations between players, or you were a pet sorc. This change seems, to me at least, as an attempt to do something about that. To force build variety and to mix things up.

Just that it´s not like you say it is - you´ve got it backwards.

It´s not an overperforming build that´s way to powerful. It´s the only build that is powerful enough to compete with the other classes.

You can´t mix things up because everything else at your disposal is simply subpar and using it will yield a subpar result compared to ANY other class.

I feel you're missing the point here...

The key thing to understand is that, the playstyle in question is the reason why ZOS is nerfing shields. And the justification behind that move is exactly what you yourself said: Compared to it, any other sorc build option is subpar.

Now, whether that build and playstyle is the only thing that works for sorcs, is not relevant. What is, is that it is so clearly demonstrably better than anything else available for sorcs.

ZOS thinks that the other build options are good too. They think that shield based play is over performing, and want to pull them in line with the other options, and that it is performing in a manner that does not match their vision for the gameplay.

And that´s why everyone who´s actually playing the game tells them they´re obviously not playing the game and have no idea what they´re doing.
Because - while your statement might be right about what ZOS thinks. Actually playing the game proves this to be wrong. The other builds aren´t good enough. They´re not even close to.

Also the very notion to remove a playstyle just because it doesn´t fit someones liking is problematic. What playstyle is next to be removed because it no longer fits the vision of someone who doesn´t play the game?
I can get behind putting an overperforming playstyle in line comparatively to other playstyles/builds of all classes. But objectively that wasn´t the case for sorcs. They didn´t overperform compared to other classes neither stam nor mag (except for pets in duels].
But outright removing a playstyle solely on the notion that people don´t like it? Imo that´s wrong.

Marabornwingrion

Who is the sorc class representative?

Lord_Eomer

Astrid_V wrote: »

Who is the sorc class representative?

Not sure but i believe @Tasear is managing sorc discord!

https://discord.gg/2CDZaqQ

Minalan

Astrid_V wrote: »

Who is the sorc class representative?

Technically there isn't one, especially since Hexys went MIA.

NightbladeMechanics (Kena) has actually stepped up to help us though, and he has sincerely tried. The other side just isn't listening.

Feanor

And yes, just as I said before, I fully expect the alternative builds and play styles, that would emerge should this change go forth, to be weak. Weaker than the prevailing meta, and quite possible weaker than most of the builds and playstyles of other classes. It would take several updates worth of tweaks to get sorcs back up to speed. But first we need to change the meta, before any of those other changes can happen.

@Hymzir

What exactly makes you believe Sorc receives buffs or rework in the future? And what exactly is „the good of the game“? Is it everyone playing Nightblades?

Ipslor

Now it's only fair to add cast time to
- NB's cloak
- rolldodge
- Templar burst heal
- Incap
- wings

Y'know. PLAN YOUR DEFENCE and all that.

Derra

Astrid_V wrote: »

Who is the sorc class representative?

One of the sorc mains - now mains a NB.

I don´t know if there is still a classrep left who mains a magica sorc in pvp since summerset.

BalticBlues

Shields with a 1 sec delay just do not help but cripple gameplay.
So there probably are two viable options now for Sorcs:

Option 1: Play Heavy Armor without shields.
Option 2: Play Nightblade, just like the majority.

Of course, options 2 scores so much better...
Another step into Elder Blades Online ...getting close to 90% soon...

Derra

BalticBlues wrote: »

Shields with a 1 sec delay just do not help but cripple gameplay.
So there probably are two viable options now for Sorcs:

Option 1: Play Heavy Armor without shields.
Option 2: Play Nightblade, just like the majority.

Of course, options 2 scores so much better...
Another step into Elder Blades Online ...getting close to 90% soon...

Problem with option 1 is - your heal depends on crit. Of which you sacrifice 10% to go heavy. Now go nonCP and you lose another 12%.
You have pets - but those need shields to stay alive (and consume two slots and don´t scale like other heals).
Which leaves the only heal being darkdeal. A casttime ability.

So option one really means you have no reliable way of class healing at all. I wouldn´t call that an option.

Vogtard

Maybe a crazy idea but since the shields are already about to get changed, how about a complete redesign of Conjured Ward to act similar to the Psijic passive shield? It has a very cool, well designed, skill based mechanic, removes stacking, and makes the block button more useful for magsorcs. The idea and the code is in already in the game.
Permablock wouldn't work due to the inherent recharge time.

Sorcs desperately lack bar space so preferably make it a passive or a 30s buff which triggers a shield while blocking. The shield recharges linearly over time. The armor mitigation before the shield is nice, and block mitigation before the shield would be even nicer, with a fantastic synergy with Bound Armor.

I hate cooldowns but the recharge mechanic is actually great. Would love to see it used with Streak too (linearly scaling cost or distance).

I bolded "linearly" because it's absolutely critical that it is not in the 0/1 system like current disgusting Streak fatigue BS.

Remove cast time from the other shields.

BalticBlues

BalticBlues wrote: »

Shields with a 1 sec delay just do not help but cripple gameplay.
So there probably are two viable options now for Sorcs:

Option 1: Play Heavy Armor without shields.
Option 2: Play Nightblade, just like the majority.

Derra wrote: »

Problem with option 1 is - your heal depends on crit. Of which you sacrifice 10% to go heavy. Now go nonCP and you lose another 12%.

So option one really means you have no reliable way of class healing at all.

My Sorc daughter is playing in Heavy, using Dark Conversion for Magicka/Health.
But you are right, as ZOS now also nerfs Dark Conversion considerably.
So Sorc's HA option also is getting much worse.

ZOS does everything to cripple Sorcs with this patch:
- cripple 3rd Overload bar (GONE!)
- cripple Shields (UNUSABLE!)
- cripple Dark Conversion (MASSIVE NERF!)
If this gets live, it will be the end of the Sorc class as we know it.

My Sorc daughter quit playing ESO this week... playing Overwatch now...
And I am feeling like the The Last of the ESO Mohicans in our family...

Chilly-McFreeze

Vogtard wrote: »

Maybe a crazy idea but since the shields are already about to get changed, how about a complete redesign of Conjured Ward to act similar to the Psijic passive shield? It has a very cool, well designed, skill based mechanic, removes stacking, and makes the block button more useful for magsorcs. The idea and the code is in already in the game.
Permablock wouldn't work due to the inherent recharge time.

Sorcs desperately lack bar space so preferably make it a passive or a 30s buff which triggers a shield while blocking. The shield recharges linearly over time. The armor mitigation before the shield is nice, and block mitigation before the shield would be even nicer, with a fantastic synergy with Bound Armor.

I hate cooldowns but the recharge mechanic is actually great. Would love to see it used with Streak too (linearly scaling cost or distance).

I bolded "linearly" because it's absolutely critical that it is not in the 0/1 system like current disgusting Streak fatigue BS.

Remove cast time from the other shields.

PvP mSorcs use shields to be able to survive the cooldowns needed to get off their burst rotation. Blocking means a disruption on that. Your burst won't hit all at the same time, making it even harder to kill someone. And please, don't suggest any more cooldown ideas.

Donnasnowheart_ESO

When I look at these changes I feel nothing but sadness. The majority is bug fixes and nerfs with a few cost reduction changes that will honestly improve nothing. When I look at the Conjured Ward changes and Overload Changes I cant help but feel like the person that made these and let them go through had strong negative feelings towards the Sorc Class.

The Crystal Frag changes are a bug fix. Rune Cage change added reliable counter play which was needed so it's chalked up to neutral. Bound Armor change is great but it's still way to expensive for its duration. The Conjured Ward changes I would have been perfectly fine with since they were going to be improved with resistances while also allowed players to crit them along with being affected by enchants which was a reasonable nerf but the 1 second cast time was added which for obvious reasons is just outright absurd.

All the pet ability cost reduction changes are nice but don't address the issue of horrible Ai and them being detrimental in a wide range of content. I hope it's intentions were around making pet builds be able to sustain a LA rotation maybe? Mages Fury nothing but bug fixes. Overload changes the worst one for me personally removing the third bar which was something extremely special and unique to sorc along with it being practically required for some builds to only be replaced with a very slow so called weaving ultimate for solely damage that is nothing but wasted ult to use considering how high Staff LA damage is and the 50% nerf to Overload LA damage plus Stam has no use for it since it doesn't function like storm atro using the higher stat pool.