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Explaining The ‘House Slot’ Problem And Why It Is Difficult To Solve.

  • Chryseia
    Chryseia
    Soul Shriven
    I get that there are tons of difficulties associated with implementing higher item limits, however, that doesn't change the fact that other games, games that are older than ESO, have managed to solve or "cheat" the problem better than ESO has.

    In Wildstar, you could place 2500 inside and 2500 outside with no limits on how close those items could be to one another, and almost every item in the game had collision. Through the community plot system, you could actually place a total of 16,500 items on a single-rendered exterior space (meaning no loading screens, though technically the continuous space was actually 5 plots and 1 in-between zone). And if you had a bugged account, those limits went up to 3,000 for a single plot, 19,000 for a community, not including interiors. I played Wildstar on a 3 year old midrange laptop and never had an issue with frying my computer, or the computer of visitors to my 19,000 item community. In addition to Wildstar, I understand that Rift, a 7 year old game, can support item limits of up to 2,800, depending on which dimension you are using.

    So I guess what I am saying is that, while I understand and appreciate that there are significant difficulties in raising the limit, if other games can do it better, why can't ESO?

    If ESO can't do it better, in my experience with other games, one of the best ways to save on decor limits is the ability to scale the size of decors. Could ESO implement a way to allow players to scale the size of furniture? In addition to saving decor limit space, size scaling would also support better "cobbling" or "morphing" of custom decors.

    I really do hope that ZOS can implement higher item limits for housing. Now that Wildstar is shutting down, I would love to enable my housing addiction with ESO housing, but with the item limits as they currently stand, I would never be able to create things like this "shell" of a room (walls, floors, and fixtures), which, unfurnished, cost about 1,700 items (each set of two rose panels was almost 200 items alone--I made them out of spoons).
    unknown.png
  • The_Last_Titan

    I could not say what 'actual' affect adding 100 or 200 more slots would have. Based on what I described above it would theoretically reduce frame calculations by 1 second for every 200 objects.

    So 20 objects would take 100 milliseconds to process, 200 would take 1 second, 1000 would take 5 seconds.

    5 second my not sound long, but think about what a movie would look like if it was running at 1 frame every 5 seconds. It would be a slide show not a movie.


    that's referring to currently that it is 20 = 100 milliseconds right, but 20 is the space in a small area not the item limit on the house. If it was x10 it would be a 7000 slot house right? if it was like % based going from 700-900 would be like 20 objects-25.74 not 20-200
  • The_Last_Titan

    All that being said, what I am referring to is increasing the slot count in a 'significant' way by doubling or tripling the slots 2000 or 3000 slots which is what I think people actually want.

    And the odds of the average player placing objects so close together they encounter the 'worst case' scenario is very small. What is more likely is that they will place 50 to 100 objects to close together an experience lag like stuttering which is totally possible with todays limits.


    However the more slots they allow the more likely it is that a player will place objects too close together and the 'possible' worst case becomes significantly worse.


    Dev's don't plan for just the 'best case' or even the 'average case' scenarios, they have to plan and adapt for the 'worst case' scenarios to avoid 'catastrophic' failures.

    I believe 'Consoles' have deployment requirements that include statements from the publisher that they are not knowingly deploying code that can result in 'catastrophic' game failures based on standard user actions. That is because 'Consoles' want to ensure a quality level for all games they support.

    followup to my last post. you factored some of that in. Id be more than happy with 300 more slots, i'm reasonable. lets not make the potential game breaking 3000 slot increase stop the reasonable 300+ from getting done.

    edited to add the + B)
    Edited by The_Last_Titan on November 17, 2018 7:05PM
  • GrimClaw
    GrimClaw
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    Doesn't explain why mansions can have x times more slots than small houses. Makes no sense.
    You could either have a mansion with big empty places, or one small and cozy home.

    And if collision calcs would be a problem, my FPS in housing zones would go low - that's not the case so we have tons of hardware ressources left.
    Edited by GrimClaw on November 18, 2018 11:52AM
  • thefixerupper
    I guess if you can't handle doing a house in a game and allow players to really enjoy their houses, then just get rid of them or stop charging absurd prices for them.
    And stop making people pay a subscription just to double their furniture, when they spent $70 on a house.

    Sorry, but houses to me are pointless. I will not support this game with buying a house, if they can't support me furnishing it.
  • Tigerseye
    Tigerseye
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    Enrif wrote: »
    Well, there is a way to solve it

    As i see it, some players dedicate multiple items to create a single setup. A Table filled with plates, forks, knives, bread fruits etc. can easily have 30 or more items in very close proximity. To solve that, there would have to be an item that's just that, say Table - Full

    With this 30 items would be removed and replaced by 1, reducing the load a lot.

    It is not super customizable, but it allows to decorate things with "more" stuff

    Another example is a Bookcase-Empty where you put all your editions of the Lusty argonian maid in it, or a Bookcase-Full, but without stuff to actually read.

    What would be amazing, is if we could create our own, personal, "Table, Full", or "Bookcase, Full", or "Fruitbowl, Full", or whatever else, with our own chosen items.

    Obviously, there could be rules for the number and type of of items we were allowed to combine into one.

    Some very large, or already complex, items (like large trees and statues) could be totally excluded.

    Other larger items could be limited to just a few combined items and then, medium and smaller items could have a more generous limit.

    We could even be allowed to sell the combined items, on guild stores, if that would be possible?

    Meaning that people who were good at making arrangements might even be able to make some gold from it.

    If not, that would be fine too, though.

    Then, once these items were combined, they would be storable (as a single item) in our inv and bank; so, we could transport them from house to house and/or access them from any house, as normal.

    When placed in a house you could move stuff about within that combined item (as you can now, with linked items); but, you couldn't start removing stuff from the arrangement and placing it separately, unless your house still had sufficient furnishing slots to turn your 1 combined object back into 10 (or however many items you disassembled it into) indvidual ones.

    Alternatively, if necessary, they could make it so once you hit a button to confirm that you wanted to combine all linked items into one, that combination was permanent and couldn't be edited.

    The latter would be less than ideal, but it would still be an improvement on empty-looking houses.
    Edited by Tigerseye on December 17, 2018 6:56PM
  • Tigerseye
    Tigerseye
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    Tezzaa wrote: »
    For the larger homes there really does need to be an item increase. How can you effectively customize and decorate to minor details if you are being hamstrung because the wont increase it because of console players?

    Lets look at Guild Houses - As @hiyde mentioned above - our guild house has been gutted inside to cater for complete crafting stations. Whilst an amazing thing that this is - Guild Masters are hampered by being able to have a gorgeous Guild House with the amenities the guildies desire such as crafting stations etc. There really needs to be a section of housing for these kinds of homes. Guild Halls should be an option. EQ2 had them - why can they not become an option here? Many guilds have all the crafting stations yet have to skimp on aesthetics because of this 700 item cap! It is truly absurd.

    I understand there is an algorithm for all these things, however it is time to update that equation as more people complain about the item cap then don't. I currently have an Earthtear Cavern, Brotherhood Sanctuary and Princely Dawnlight Palace unfinished BECAUSE of the item limit! Notable homes need higher item cap no way around it.

    I agree.

    Of course, a big part of the problem, in your case, is the set crafting stations.

    It's insanity that you have to have a separate crafting station for every set.

    Should just be able to just add sets (after buying a set voucher for each one) to one mega-station, for each craft and then have an alphabetical drop-down menu.
    Edited by Tigerseye on December 17, 2018 6:49PM
  • MornaBaine
    MornaBaine
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    Tigerseye wrote: »
    Tezzaa wrote: »
    For the larger homes there really does need to be an item increase. How can you effectively customize and decorate to minor details if you are being hamstrung because the wont increase it because of console players?

    Lets look at Guild Houses - As @hiyde mentioned above - our guild house has been gutted inside to cater for complete crafting stations. Whilst an amazing thing that this is - Guild Masters are hampered by being able to have a gorgeous Guild House with the amenities the guildies desire such as crafting stations etc. There really needs to be a section of housing for these kinds of homes. Guild Halls should be an option. EQ2 had them - why can they not become an option here? Many guilds have all the crafting stations yet have to skimp on aesthetics because of this 700 item cap! It is truly absurd.

    I understand there is an algorithm for all these things, however it is time to update that equation as more people complain about the item cap then don't. I currently have an Earthtear Cavern, Brotherhood Sanctuary and Princely Dawnlight Palace unfinished BECAUSE of the item limit! Notable homes need higher item cap no way around it.

    I agree.

    Of course, a big part of the problem, in your case, is the set crafting stations.

    It's insanity that you have to have a separate crafting station for every set.

    Should just be able to just add sets (after buying a set voucher for each one) to one mega-station, for each craft and then have an alphabetical drop-down menu.

    I don't think you do actually. You have to have an attunable crafting station to be able to make more than one set on a station. These, of course, are MUCH more expensive than the regular crafting stations.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

  • Tigerseye
    Tigerseye
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    MornaBaine wrote: »
    Tigerseye wrote: »
    Tezzaa wrote: »
    For the larger homes there really does need to be an item increase. How can you effectively customize and decorate to minor details if you are being hamstrung because the wont increase it because of console players?

    Lets look at Guild Houses - As @hiyde mentioned above - our guild house has been gutted inside to cater for complete crafting stations. Whilst an amazing thing that this is - Guild Masters are hampered by being able to have a gorgeous Guild House with the amenities the guildies desire such as crafting stations etc. There really needs to be a section of housing for these kinds of homes. Guild Halls should be an option. EQ2 had them - why can they not become an option here? Many guilds have all the crafting stations yet have to skimp on aesthetics because of this 700 item cap! It is truly absurd.

    I understand there is an algorithm for all these things, however it is time to update that equation as more people complain about the item cap then don't. I currently have an Earthtear Cavern, Brotherhood Sanctuary and Princely Dawnlight Palace unfinished BECAUSE of the item limit! Notable homes need higher item cap no way around it.

    I agree.

    Of course, a big part of the problem, in your case, is the set crafting stations.

    It's insanity that you have to have a separate crafting station for every set.

    Should just be able to just add sets (after buying a set voucher for each one) to one mega-station, for each craft and then have an alphabetical drop-down menu.

    I don't think you do actually. You have to have an attunable crafting station to be able to make more than one set on a station. These, of course, are MUCH more expensive than the regular crafting stations.

    Yeah, I meant the attunable crafting stations.

    I thought you could only have one set, at a time, on them?

    That's why I haven't bothered getting any.

    Otherwise, why does everyone (with them) have something like 100 of them - one for each craft, for each set?

    You go to people's houses (and guild houses) and they are just a sea of attunable crafting stations.

    Who would do that if you didn't have to?

    Also, you can't make sets, at all, on regular crafting stations (sadly!).

    I just don't get why any developer would design it this way?

    Especially knowing the furnishing limitations.

    It makes no sense.

    ETA: Yep, as I thought.

    One set per attunable station:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311917/attunable-crafting-stations

    I can see why you would assume it would be limitless sets, though (especially, if you also bought a voucher, or something, each time you wanted to add another set), as that would make far more sense.

    Whereas, the reality is a total joke, quite frankly. xD
    Edited by Tigerseye on December 18, 2018 2:49AM
  • MornaBaine
    MornaBaine
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    Tigerseye wrote: »
    MornaBaine wrote: »
    Tigerseye wrote: »
    Tezzaa wrote: »
    For the larger homes there really does need to be an item increase. How can you effectively customize and decorate to minor details if you are being hamstrung because the wont increase it because of console players?

    Lets look at Guild Houses - As @hiyde mentioned above - our guild house has been gutted inside to cater for complete crafting stations. Whilst an amazing thing that this is - Guild Masters are hampered by being able to have a gorgeous Guild House with the amenities the guildies desire such as crafting stations etc. There really needs to be a section of housing for these kinds of homes. Guild Halls should be an option. EQ2 had them - why can they not become an option here? Many guilds have all the crafting stations yet have to skimp on aesthetics because of this 700 item cap! It is truly absurd.

    I understand there is an algorithm for all these things, however it is time to update that equation as more people complain about the item cap then don't. I currently have an Earthtear Cavern, Brotherhood Sanctuary and Princely Dawnlight Palace unfinished BECAUSE of the item limit! Notable homes need higher item cap no way around it.

    I agree.

    Of course, a big part of the problem, in your case, is the set crafting stations.

    It's insanity that you have to have a separate crafting station for every set.

    Should just be able to just add sets (after buying a set voucher for each one) to one mega-station, for each craft and then have an alphabetical drop-down menu.

    I don't think you do actually. You have to have an attunable crafting station to be able to make more than one set on a station. These, of course, are MUCH more expensive than the regular crafting stations.

    Yeah, I meant the attunable crafting stations.

    I thought you could only have one set, at a time, on them?

    That's why I haven't bothered getting any.

    Otherwise, why does everyone (with them) have something like 100 of them - one for each craft, for each set?

    You go to people's houses (and guild houses) and they are just a sea of attunable crafting stations.

    Who would do that if you didn't have to?

    Also, you can't make sets, at all, on regular crafting stations (sadly!).

    I just don't get why any developer would design it this way?

    Especially knowing the furnishing limitations.

    It makes no sense.

    ETA: Yep, as I thought.

    One set per attunable station:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311917/attunable-crafting-stations

    I can see why you would assume it would be limitless sets, though (especially, if you also bought a voucher, or something, each time you wanted to add another set), as that would make far more sense.

    Whereas, the reality is a total joke, quite frankly. xD

    Oh wow. Yeah I had NO idea. I just thought an attunable station could be changed to any of them at need. That's....completely nuts.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

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