[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

StarOfElyon

Also, I don't want ZOS to miss this so I'm repeating it:

1. The blazing shield morph needs to have the shield strength scale with the max resource. Reason: Magplars should have a class shield that they can use and is unique to them. Tanks don't fully benefit from this morph anyway unless they have high spell damage.

2. Hasty Prayer should be a selfish heal, grant minor expedition, and have its cost reduced by half. Reason: Templars need a selfish heal (all of their heals can affect other players) and they lack mobility. This won't fix the mobility issue completely but it's better than nothing.

3. Vampire's Bane needs a buff. Reason: It got nerfed when ZOS adjusted all DoTs but this was important for Magplars and their class identity.

4. Solar Barrage needs a buff. Reason: Same as with Vampire's Bane, it got nerfed when ZOS adjusted all dots and its very week right now.

RiskyChalice863

StarOfElyon wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

if i can have a word here, jabs are benefiting a lot of burning light passive which makes it viable even against evasion ppl (i know it from being one of templar's favorite target ;p).
they are doing more base single target dmg than dark flare (about 10% more) with the same cast time + aoe + 4chances to proc burning light making it doing up to 100% more dmg.

this skill needs to be considered with passives and properties, not only by numbers.


(i'm looking into rerolling plar someday... dont spite at me yet ^^)

Jabs are strong but the magicka morph (puncturing sweeps) is not. It's useless against evasion. The heal is based on damage done so that part is also nullified by evasion.

Aren’t Jabs and Sweeps equally affected by major evasion, in terms of damage? I realize that major evasion naturally lowers the healing Sweeps does too, but it’s not like Jabs’s damage isn’t affected by major evasion. And, in a sense, the major savagery is also negatively affected by major evasion, since crits add less damage when they’re adding a damage multiplier to a lower damage number.

StarOfElyon

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

if i can have a word here, jabs are benefiting a lot of burning light passive which makes it viable even against evasion ppl (i know it from being one of templar's favorite target ;p).
they are doing more base single target dmg than dark flare (about 10% more) with the same cast time + aoe + 4chances to proc burning light making it doing up to 100% more dmg.

this skill needs to be considered with passives and properties, not only by numbers.


(i'm looking into rerolling plar someday... dont spite at me yet ^^)

Jabs are strong but the magicka morph (puncturing sweeps) is not. It's useless against evasion. The heal is based on damage done so that part is also nullified by evasion.

Aren’t Jabs and Sweeps equally affected by major evasion, in terms of damage? I realize that major evasion naturally lowers the healing Sweeps does too, but it’s not like Jabs’s damage isn’t affected by major evasion. And, in a sense, the major savagery is also negatively affected by major evasion, since crits add less damage when they’re adding a damage multiplier to a lower damage number.

Yeah they're both affected but if you're a Stamplar and you use PoL (giving minor breach/fracture) and getting major savagery from jabs, they're still going to hit hard AF. If you do this following an Onslaught, you even get max penetration and are just melting people's butts off.

Solariken

kalunte wrote: »

if i can have a word here, jabs are benefiting a lot of burning light passive which makes it viable even against evasion ppl (i know it from being one of templar's favorite target ;p).
they are doing more base single target dmg than dark flare (about 10% more) with the same cast time + aoe + 4chances to proc burning light making it doing up to 100% more dmg.

this skill needs to be considered with passives and properties, not only by numbers.


(i'm looking into rerolling plar someday... dont spite at me yet ^^)

@kalunte there is a cooldown on Burning Light, the most it can proc is twice in one channel of Jabs.

kalunte

i said that it has 4chances to proc, not that it can proc 4times on one single cast ^^.

the 100% dmg increase was calculated with 1cast + 2 burning light proc compared to 1 dark flare which cant proc burning light.

have a look at your char's tooltip, you will easily get to those numbers too.

as for major evasion, the burning light part of jabs dmg is never affected by evasion and with 25% proc chance and 4hits you barely have 100% proc chance of at lease 1 burning light per cast. burning light does roughly 160% of 1jab hit so...

base: 4x100% = 400% of 1jab hit. this amount is also 110% of dark flare's dmg darkflare here does 363%
major evasion: -25% => 300%
1burning light proc => 400%+160% = 560%
1burning light proc and major evasion => 300% +160% =460%
2burning light proc= 400%+160%+160% = 720 (two dark flares does 726 but takes two casts)

regular spammaale does ¨roughly 280% following this calculation.

and so on. i just wanted to make the point clearer. still i can be wrong.

i admit not all jabs hits, nor all cast have guaranteed bruning light proc, still. this can be ridiculous

kalunte

i just noticed that jabs are still doing more dmg than a single target spamable even if the target have major evasion "on". for those who says "hits like a wet noodle"...

Hotdog_23

Good luck hitting all 4 Jabs in pvp. Templar need some snare on ritual. They should have not completely removed it. Just reduced it by 50%

Backlack needs to reduced to 3 seconds to help with burst in nocp. Comparing it wardens and Necro times burst skills it is just weak.

StarOfElyon

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Good luck hitting all 4 Jabs in pvp. Templar need some snare on ritual. They should have not completely removed it. Just reduced it by 50%

Backlack needs to reduced to 3 seconds to help with burst in nocp. Comparing it wardens and Necro times burst skills it is just weak.

I don't agree with this at all. I haven't missed the snare on Ritual. The extra block-damage mitigation has been nice. And the 6 second window on Purifying Light is nice so that we don't have to recast it often.

EtTuBrutus

kalunte wrote: »

i said that it has 4chances to proc, not that it can proc 4times on one single cast ^^.

the 100% dmg increase was calculated with 1cast + 2 burning light proc compared to 1 dark flare which cant proc burning light.

have a look at your char's tooltip, you will easily get to those numbers too.

as for major evasion, the burning light part of jabs dmg is never affected by evasion and with 25% proc chance and 4hits you barely have 100% proc chance of at lease 1 burning light per cast. burning light does roughly 160% of 1jab hit so...

base: 4x100% = 400% of 1jab hit. this amount is also 110% of dark flare's dmg darkflare here does 363%
major evasion: -25% => 300%
1burning light proc => 400%+160% = 560%
1burning light proc and major evasion => 300% +160% =460%
2burning light proc= 400%+160%+160% = 720 (two dark flares does 726 but takes two casts)

regular spammaale does ¨roughly 280% following this calculation.

and so on. i just wanted to make the point clearer. still i can be wrong.

i admit not all jabs hits, nor all cast have guaranteed bruning light proc, still. this can be ridiculous

The tooltip of 1

kalunte wrote: »

i said that it has 4chances to proc, not that it can proc 4times on one single cast ^^.

the 100% dmg increase was calculated with 1cast + 2 burning light proc compared to 1 dark flare which cant proc burning light.

have a look at your char's tooltip, you will easily get to those numbers too.

as for major evasion, the burning light part of jabs dmg is never affected by evasion and with 25% proc chance and 4hits you barely have 100% proc chance of at lease 1 burning light per cast. burning light does roughly 160% of 1jab hit so...

base: 4x100% = 400% of 1jab hit. this amount is also 110% of dark flare's dmg darkflare here does 363%
major evasion: -25% => 300%
1burning light proc => 400%+160% = 560%
1burning light proc and major evasion => 300% +160% =460%
2burning light proc= 400%+160%+160% = 720 (two dark flares does 726 but takes two casts)

regular spammaale does ¨roughly 280% following this calculation.

and so on. i just wanted to make the point clearer. still i can be wrong.

i admit not all jabs hits, nor all cast have guaranteed bruning light proc, still. this can be ridiculous

The occurrence of all 4 jabs plus 2 burning light procs happening in a pvp environment is low im high skill game play. Not only probability, but in game play and movement. Don't count out dark flares defile either. It may not show as damage numbers, but if vigor is ticking and you knock 30% off those numbers, you're doing "damage" that jabs cannot. You knock 5k off a vigor as they roll around avoiding your jabs, it's still potential dps if thier health stays below 100%. Add in opportunity cost, id say it's good balance. Im critting people for 11k with blast bones with 0 micro other than the initial targeted cast. Jabs and sweeps with burning light is not a problem.

FirmamentOfStars

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

i said that it has 4chances to proc, not that it can proc 4times on one single cast ^^.

the 100% dmg increase was calculated with 1cast + 2 burning light proc compared to 1 dark flare which cant proc burning light.

have a look at your char's tooltip, you will easily get to those numbers too.

as for major evasion, the burning light part of jabs dmg is never affected by evasion and with 25% proc chance and 4hits you barely have 100% proc chance of at lease 1 burning light per cast. burning light does roughly 160% of 1jab hit so...

base: 4x100% = 400% of 1jab hit. this amount is also 110% of dark flare's dmg darkflare here does 363%
major evasion: -25% => 300%
1burning light proc => 400%+160% = 560%
1burning light proc and major evasion => 300% +160% =460%
2burning light proc= 400%+160%+160% = 720 (two dark flares does 726 but takes two casts)

regular spammaale does ¨roughly 280% following this calculation.

and so on. i just wanted to make the point clearer. still i can be wrong.

i admit not all jabs hits, nor all cast have guaranteed bruning light proc, still. this can be ridiculous

The tooltip of 1

kalunte wrote: »

i said that it has 4chances to proc, not that it can proc 4times on one single cast ^^.

the 100% dmg increase was calculated with 1cast + 2 burning light proc compared to 1 dark flare which cant proc burning light.

have a look at your char's tooltip, you will easily get to those numbers too.

as for major evasion, the burning light part of jabs dmg is never affected by evasion and with 25% proc chance and 4hits you barely have 100% proc chance of at lease 1 burning light per cast. burning light does roughly 160% of 1jab hit so...

base: 4x100% = 400% of 1jab hit. this amount is also 110% of dark flare's dmg darkflare here does 363%
major evasion: -25% => 300%
1burning light proc => 400%+160% = 560%
1burning light proc and major evasion => 300% +160% =460%
2burning light proc= 400%+160%+160% = 720 (two dark flares does 726 but takes two casts)

regular spammaale does ¨roughly 280% following this calculation.

and so on. i just wanted to make the point clearer. still i can be wrong.

i admit not all jabs hits, nor all cast have guaranteed bruning light proc, still. this can be ridiculous

The occurrence of all 4 jabs plus 2 burning light procs happening in a pvp environment is low im high skill game play. Not only probability, but in game play and movement. Don't count out dark flares defile either. It may not show as damage numbers, but if vigor is ticking and you knock 30% off those numbers, you're doing "damage" that jabs cannot. You knock 5k off a vigor as they roll around avoiding your jabs, it's still potential dps if thier health stays below 100%. Add in opportunity cost, id say it's good balance. Im critting people for 11k with blast bones with 0 micro other than the initial targeted cast. Jabs and sweeps with burning light is not a problem.

Mathematically a full cast of jabs has an average of 0.75 burning light procs. Realistically seen jabs hit in pvp content mostly 2-3 times per channel. If you hit two times plus average burning light proc its damage is on same page as the weaker spammables, with 3 hits per channel, its slightly above flurry and dizzying swing. Jabs is not an issue.

But I also do not think the snare on ritual should be back nor that backlashs timer needs to be reduced. For the moment templars should stay as they are and some other classes should be pushed up a bit. If all magclasses are on the same page, we can tackle the gap towards the stamina classes.

Sanguinor2

Is it too late to ask for in class Major sorcery and/or brutality?
Also please for the love of god make balanced warrior actually balanced.

Iskiab

Templar isn’t in a bad spot really, it’s just feast or famine. Against certain builds you’ll have a rough time, against others an easy time.

Playing one I’ve noticed you’re vulnerable to sorcs and bowtards. High mitigation builds with evasion can be tough to finish off too.

What’s fun is being able to kill NBs just by spamming sweeps. I might be able to do it more efficiently with a combo, but it’s trolly doing it with one button so I get a kick out of it.

With healing nerfed will magplar be stronger or weaker? It might come out ahead, if there are sorcs everywhere it could be rough but in a head on fight sweeps might end up stronger if they don’t touch healing based on damage abilities.

Altyrann

Fixing performance on channeled skills would help a lot. Also fixing performance on other skills, bar swaps etc.

Probably true of all classes, but when sweeps and radiant are two of your signature abilities it is painful to watch a rotation freeze 20 seconds into every parse.

Firstmep

Hot take: I have been messing around on my magplar recently, trying to find a decent BG build, and for whatever reason i replaced backlash with dark flare, and well, it seem to work pretty well.
DF into toppling+cresent is a good chunk of burst and the defile on DF makes it that much harder to recover for my opponent.

I dont much like backlash for bgs tbh, beacuse at higher MMRs its difficult to stick to 1 target for 6 seconds and can be dangerous.
This combo seems to work pretty well since toppling and df hits around the same time and i usually land CS before they get up
Not mention next patch, with the overall healing nerf, defile effects will that much more sought after.

FirmamentOfStars

Iskiab wrote: »

Templar isn’t in a bad spot really, it’s just feast or famine. Against certain builds you’ll have a rough time, against others an easy time.

Playing one I’ve noticed you’re vulnerable to sorcs and bowtards. High mitigation builds with evasion can be tough to finish off too.

What’s fun is being able to kill NBs just by spamming sweeps. I might be able to do it more efficiently with a combo, but it’s trolly doing it with one button so I get a kick out of it.

With healing nerfed will magplar be stronger or weaker? It might come out ahead, if there are sorcs everywhere it could be rough but in a head on fight sweeps might end up stronger if they don’t touch healing based on damage abilities.

Most likely magplar will be weaker than before, since it relies on burst healing from low health up to a state you can go offensive again. With 20% less healing, you maybe need another cast of honor the dead to get back up, therefore you waste the magicka return from it. It will be more expensive for sure and you certainly will feel it, when your breath of life heals for 1-2k less.

So far its a class, which can use the new stuhn set pretty nicely if it stays as on pts, but we do not know that yet.

Generally I would stay magplar stays more or less where it was, meanwhile the gap to magsorc and the strong stamina classes increases.

StarOfElyon

Firstmep wrote: »

Hot take: I have been messing around on my magplar recently, trying to find a decent BG build, and for whatever reason i replaced backlash with dark flare, and well, it seem to work pretty well.
DF into toppling+cresent is a good chunk of burst and the defile on DF makes it that much harder to recover for my opponent.

I dont much like backlash for bgs tbh, beacuse at higher MMRs its difficult to stick to 1 target for 6 seconds and can be dangerous.
This combo seems to work pretty well since toppling and df hits around the same time and i usually land CS before they get up
Not mention next patch, with the overall healing nerf, defile effects will that much more sought after.

Back around Murkmire, I used to love that combo. But because of lag and uselessness in melee range, I swapped back to Solar Barrage. Purifying Light seems to work pretty well for me. There's no cast time and it's much more useful in melee range, in my opinion.

Speaking of Dark Flare though: I've been playing with my Necro a little bit and while the time it takes to summon a blastbones is longer than it takes to fire a Dark Flare, it still feels like the Blastbones is more reliable. It will follow the target while the Dark Flare can easily be dodged.

Solariken

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Good luck hitting all 4 Jabs in pvp. Templar need some snare on ritual. They should have not completely removed it. Just reduced it by 50%

Backlack needs to reduced to 3 seconds to help with burst in nocp. Comparing it wardens and Necro times burst skills it is just weak.

I don't agree with this at all. I haven't missed the snare on Ritual. The extra block-damage mitigation has been nice. And the 6 second window on Purifying Light is nice so that we don't have to recast it often.

HTD-spamming blockplars got a buff but my playstyle got nerfed hard. Sacred Ground snare was a great disengage and useful for 1vX. Magplar still has Living Dark which is pretty good but my stamplar doesn't have anything else to use for disengage.

StarOfElyon

Solariken wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Good luck hitting all 4 Jabs in pvp. Templar need some snare on ritual. They should have not completely removed it. Just reduced it by 50%

Backlack needs to reduced to 3 seconds to help with burst in nocp. Comparing it wardens and Necro times burst skills it is just weak.

I don't agree with this at all. I haven't missed the snare on Ritual. The extra block-damage mitigation has been nice. And the 6 second window on Purifying Light is nice so that we don't have to recast it often.

HTD-spamming blockplars got a buff but my playstyle got nerfed hard. Sacred Ground snare was a great disengage and useful for 1vX. Magplar still has Living Dark which is pretty good but my stamplar doesn't have anything else to use for disengage.

I'm sorry that it's hitting your playstyle so hard but keep in mind that Magplars don't have Stamplar speed so the loss isn't going to be that noticeable for me.

As for block-casting HTD: that's just prolonging the inevitable (death) because you can't block and run at the same time. This is why I have asked ZOS again, and again, to reduce the cost of Hasty Prayer. We have Minor Expedition locked behind an expensive skill that is already redundant - 9 times out of 10 people will take the other morph. If ZOS makes Hasty Prayer a skill for solo play, that would help us out a lot. Make it a burst heal that only heals the caster and gives Minor Expedition.

Iskiab

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Hot take: I have been messing around on my magplar recently, trying to find a decent BG build, and for whatever reason i replaced backlash with dark flare, and well, it seem to work pretty well.
DF into toppling+cresent is a good chunk of burst and the defile on DF makes it that much harder to recover for my opponent.

I dont much like backlash for bgs tbh, beacuse at higher MMRs its difficult to stick to 1 target for 6 seconds and can be dangerous.
This combo seems to work pretty well since toppling and df hits around the same time and i usually land CS before they get up
Not mention next patch, with the overall healing nerf, defile effects will that much more sought after.

Back around Murkmire, I used to love that combo. But because of lag and uselessness in melee range, I swapped back to Solar Barrage. Purifying Light seems to work pretty well for me. There's no cast time and it's much more useful in melee range, in my opinion.

Speaking of Dark Flare though: I've been playing with my Necro a little bit and while the time it takes to summon a blastbones is longer than it takes to fire a Dark Flare, it still feels like the Blastbones is more reliable. It will follow the target while the Dark Flare can easily be dodged.

I used that combo a lot before but switched out when the ritual snare was removed. Sometimes you need to get separation from people so I subbed in dark ... whatever it’s called, the melee snare when you’re hit. It’s too bad, in a BG the dark flare - toppling - LA - crescent combo all hitting at the same time is fun.

Altyrann

Animation for Puncturing Sweeps still blocking weaving. So far one thread closed for being too old (bug has been around since Elsweyr, still not fixed) and another thread deleted with no reply.

Altyrann

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/478528/templars-channels-and-the-elsweyr-changes/p1 - much detail in here

Iron_Blurr

1: Templar tank needs a health based self heal. They are the only class in the game that does not have a health based self heal for tanks.
2: Make a stamina Damage over time ability in the Aedric spear skill line. Right now stamplars only have one real option for activating the burning light passive. And that's just spamming jabs because for every second they are not jabbing, they wont activate burning light. Make one of the javalin or gap closer morphs apply a damage over time effect so stamina templar is not stuck jabbing 90% of the time.

Cinbri

And here we go with some feedback again:

DEFENSE

Main offender in templar defense arsenal is Eclipse, or more precisely Living Dark:
A. back in time this skill was situational CC but in echange granted high damage and heal, however to "lower it ceiling" and increase its reliability and also to make skill work for PvE skill was changed to self-buff. However all nerfs resulted in making profit of this skill less than its reliability along with no achieving its usability in PvE for next reasons:
1. Skill dont have actual scaling mechanic - in comparison with with similiar skills: NB Blur apply major evasion, this buff scale completely on amount of enemies and aoe they use - and in result can grant rudiculous amount of reduced damage, given that aoe most popular type of damage. DK Scales - also scale on amount of enemies atacking caster from range. Shimmering Shield - grant 100% mitigation agaisnt ranged attacks with very strong morph effects.
However Living Dark doesnt actually scale approximately to amount of enemies like previous skills. Also after Battle Spirit nerf - its functionality decreased by alot.
2. Ever since overhaul skill lost its cpability to protect against large portion of direct damage attacks, like procsets:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKz3N5xI5jg

even despite those attacks are Direct Damage.
3. In PvE it simply dont work - first: its morph effect have no use against lot of targets. Second and most important - skill dont work in PvE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUJu0_UN6LI

simply because alot of NPCs attacks are not considered as Direct Attack, and I doubt that work to fix it is worth it, given amount of it needed.
Recap: skill scaling doesnt actually scale as efectively as other skills in game nowdays and its proc condition is unreliable nor achieve goal of making its usefull in PvE.

B. Even since its heal was nerfed for 20% its actuall amount of healing per proc became equal to heal proc of Living Vines or HPS in perfect conditions (which not possible to gain) equal to Intensive Mender. However main problem as i showed in lasted Spoiler tag above - its not reliable because it proc only on Direct Damage attacks. And reality is that you never get hit by enough dircet damage attacks for skill's scaling to effectively work unless you being heavily focused and recieve so much damage that wont be capable to survive. This making skill is even less reliable bacuse in combat where you not being constantly focused - there is no use of skill at all.
Cost-wise: Vines 2700(2700/10=270mana/s); Shimmering 3780-831*3-1287(1287/6=214m/s); Scales 3510(3510/6=585m/s); LD 4320 (4320/6=720m/s); Mender 2160(2160/8=270m/s). LD most expensive skill to keep up.

For reasons described above, i.e. skill terribly scale, dont work in PvE, dot work agaisnt some direct attacks, healing tick nerf, cost vs effectiveness like otehr skills, I believe there is simple solution that fix all the problems and bugs - Push Living Dark further into category of proactive healing/hot like Living Vines, i.e. change proc condition for skill to proc on any damage taken not only Direct Damage. so tooltip would looke like:

As you can see from red lines i marked this way of proc is eact how its effect described in morph description i.e. "when you take damage".
Thus LD with 6sec duration will have almsot triple cost than Vines or Mender. Total heals will be inline of each other: Mender 969x4=3876; Vines-254x10=2540; LD-254x8=~2032 (3048 on paper but 0.5s cd apply own limitation).
Thus LD vs Mender: LD is only self-applied proc only on damage 6sec cost 720m/s with total heal ~3000. Mender can be applied on self and as tool to heal allies HOT with 8sec cost 270m/s with total heal 3876. Almsot everything benefit Mender.
LD vs Vines: LD is only self-applied proc only on damage 6sec cost 720m/s with total heal ~3000. Vines can be applied on self and as tool to heal allies proc only on damage 10sec cost 270m/s with total heal 2540. Without taking in account morphs it looks comparably strong.
Visual affect could be changed into something more cooler and more precisely describe that skill is not mitigating damage but healing/HOT:

^^ i.e. looks effect of Unstable Core that also can be paired with smth like, for example, making armor layer completely black while skill is active, so it more definitive visual to figure that enemy use skill, while this yellow eesene floating from you could represent either healing proc or simply like it now - cosntantly active to represent uptime of skill in dark areas:

Overall - into smth as cool looking as Vampire Blood Frenzy which also has effect of darkness floating around.

Now regarding morph effect of LD - its original 2 nerfs hurted funtionality of morph alot. making skill proc on every type of damage would also make snare more reliable however it doesnt neglect 3 problems - 1. effect has no use in PvE 2. templar lost quasi-aoe root while every class have access to such tool in its aresnal 3. treatment and reason of treatment are not validated.
Originally snare was nerfed into melee-only snare bu reason of "perfomance" and somehow was pushed into same category of "thorn mechanics" as dk Razor Armor and Fighter Guilds Bone Shield and this is incorrect for 2 reasons: 1. LD morph effect doesnt work like those 2 skills - it has 0.5s cooldown and thus during its full duration it skill that can proc on ~8 different targets, it cant proc on all targets inside its radius, only one one after another or on same target again and again; while Razor and Bone dont have internal cooldowns and thus can apply on unlimited amount of people again and again inside its melee range. So, 10 people in melee range hits you - LD will apply snare randomly only on 1 target every 0.5s. But if 10 people hits you while your Razor/Bone armor up - all 10 people will recieve "reflected" damage without any cooldown and only being limited by amount of direct damage enemy use.As you can see LD morph effect is completely different category than Razor/Bone.
Its thorn mechanic is more in line with thorn mechanic of Leeching Vines. But answer then is why both skills treated differently? Imagining old LD snare - unlimited radius(limited to enemy range attack tho because it require direct damage to apply), apply 3s snare with 0.5s cooldown. While Leeching Vines dont have radius limitation as it can be proced even by dot and then target can move on any distance, and apply 10s minor liefesteal debuff. Isnt skill that have by far superior range of effect and triple longer debuff should drain game perfoamnce by more than LD effect? And yet this skill' thron mechanic wasnt nerfed into melee category by perfomance reasons.
So, solutions for LD is to mkae its morph effect actually viable given that, as described above, it still has lowest cost=effectiveness ratio from comparable skills even if proc conditions would be buffed. And way to improve it is proprly treating morph effect.
1. Keep it as melee but change back snare into root, so it will be less radical than it was before when it was ranged quasi-aoe root, yet more usefull than incorrectly treated snare.
2. Turn it into actual "thorn mechanic" equl to Razor/Bone Armor, i.e. turn it into small damage returned to enemy that hit caster and remove cooldown from proc so it will be quasi-aoe damage. Given that old Total Dark was dealing damage.
3. Melee thron mechanic that empowering you every time you take damage: everytime you recieve damage one per 1s coooldown empower eclipse and after 3sec it explode into 5m radius, deal damage stun targets around. Visual effect of exploding is same as used for Unstable Core right now.
4. Change morph effect into smth completely different:
a. When you got silenced or stunned while eclispe on you - darkness protecting you by applying major protection for 1sec(1/2/3s with Endruing Rays passive). Visually it can be rerpesented as black bubble proc around and it would be precise animation as sphere=mitigation:

Also unlike BRP resto/old Duals it would grant less control over its strong effect and given duration of eclipse and CC immunity - this effect proc only once per 1cast of skill.
b. Darkness around you empoweres for every debuff. Every debuff applied to you while Eclipse is on you increase healing/damage done for X%. Literally less purge - more stronger morph effect.
^^^ Simply as I was telling before - remove compeltely useless Unstable Core and turn morphs into offensive and defensive ones.

OFFENSE

Templar class ever since launch of ESO was dot-based class similarly to dragonknight and then suddenly ZOS decided that dots are to ffective and nerfed tham into too weak. However even tho templar was based on dots like DK - its dots wasnt treated differently like DK dots and thus suddenly lost bunch of damage.
Obviously if dot rotation got nerfed - it time to switch to burst rotation, but here is tempalr problm again - class simply dont have viable burst skill.
We have Backlash - which is not even burst skill but damage amplifier skill, bad part of that - it amplify damage of nerfed dot arsenal along while Backlash mechanic itself wasn't treated properly as I described in previous posts.
Other skills that possibly could be used as burst are:
A. Dark Flare - which wont be used effectively for same reasons why people dont use Crystal Blast. In addition keeping in mind that Empowered buff possibly will be changed into affect only heavy attacks - it come to the point that to take benefit of skil you have cast time Flare for 1 sec then channeling heavy attack for another 2sec. It is so clunky, leaving caster totally vulnerable, that, keeping in mind its straight pvp debuff, even "low apm players" doubtly will use this skill.
B. Solar Barrage - was fine before take palce of DOT version of such burst skills as Shalks or Blastbones yet after dot nerfs its damage decreased to the point where it cant be used as some kind of semi-burst skill. In addition this skill suffer from weird standartization of dots where its damage tick every 2sec, and thus cant even fully benefit with dot-based builds that is main build that Draugrkin set supposed to buff. And this is weird because back in time dev comment regarding Purifying Ritual was that it deal damage/heal every 2sec because its multifunction, yet Solar Flare dont have such multifunction. In its core mechanic is exact of sorc Lightning Form - its literally aura that ticking and dealing unblockable damage to targets around , with additional buffs. Yet Barrage tick every 2 sec while Form every 1 sec. Also visually Barrage not precisely describing its effect as its visual effect which is just recolored Impulse effect imply that it deal direct damage burst every 2sec. While precise visual effect should jsut have essence aura around caster with visual damage ticks on hitted enemy, and look like that simply:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXi_w7k3yoU

Also once again keep in mind possible Empower changes that will make Barrage loose its last reason for usability for "high apm players".
Recap: we simply dont have viable burst ability that would work in burst rotation and after dot skills nerfs - there wasnt any improvement of this problem.
So I suggest:
1. Address Backalsh mechanics and update them to how skill works nowdays without its group utility. I pretty sure my old posts about its bugs, like for example its incorrect skill memory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-zhnjmQS3s

are not forgotten. But then there is risk to get too strong Xv1 ability that wont be fun to use.
2. Change Backlash into back to oldest mechanic when it was double reduce by battle spirit, etc. and thus was strong but only in PvE rotation; or turn it into yet another dot but in return address Flare skill to behave as burst skill with different functionality through it morphs:
A. Dark Flare - instead of keeping it as Crystal Blast-like version, to swap it in Crystal Frags-like Version:

And thus it will be single-target burst ability.
B. Solar Barrage - there is 2 ways of address it:
First is - to kkep it visual effect of impulse-like effect ticking every 2 sec - change Barrage into similar to Wild Impulse mechanic - strong blockable direct damage aoe pulsing every 2sec.
Second is - change its mechanic to how burst abilitiies of wardens and necromancers works, which are ~3s burst ability with aoe damage that apply strong effect. So Barrage would apply on yourself magnetic bomb visual effect that currently was removed from Unstable Core and only used now by NPC Mage eclipse (very beautiful effect) with essence aura it use now to imply that there is gona be explosion in its radius and megnetic bomb explode after 3sec in X radius, dealing damage similar to Deep Fissure and Stalking Blastbones.
Visual effect of exploding magnetic bomb is perfectly fit this type of skill unlike its currently used for Unstable Core:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dSjIoYka1E

Its definitve enough fro enemy to see what hitted them even in large fights.

ARSENAL DIVERSITY

Another big problem (apart from passives) is diversity of class morphs that dont bring anything new to gameplay or dont allow to build on its strengths, while in theory different morphs should alternate gameplay. Such morphs are:
1. Breath of Life - after weird nerfs to its additional heal, it became so low and lost its benefits(like 360° that was unjistly treated as bug) that as morph efefct it dont add any noticable survivability that would make templars to slot and gain noticable improvement of healing. To the point where you can by mistake run vBRP with Honor the Dead and not even notice difference in healing.
To grant morph some special functionality it could be changed into mechanic that similar to HtD but with own effect. For example remove main heal, keep additional low heal but add HoT based on max hp when you heal target who below 75%hp. Or jsut change it to stam return similar to HtD mana return, thus we would get deviersity in morphs similiar to Channeled/Restoring Focus that would allow to decrease problem of not having stam sustain passive and would add options like HtD+Chan Foc for high mana sustain but zero stam sustain/ HtD+Rest Foc for spiked mana sustain and constant stam sustain/ BoL+ Chan Foc for spiked stam sustain and constant mana sustain / BoL+ Rest Foc for highest stam sustain but zero mana sustain.
Or simply untie additional heal and allow it to heal also caster himself when there is noone around so it will become solo-friendly.

2. Explosive Charge - which simply not needed because off-balance+stun is jsut more reliable. Considering that new Streak can be deal unblockable aoe damage in addition to other functions and yet sorcs pretend it not overtuned than how about to add aoe damage into Toppling Charge and turn Explosive Charge into stam skill with actually worthy effect.

3. Luminous Shards - like BoL it dont add any special function that would make people wants to use this morph over Blazing Spear because even for healers more damage from Blazing is more noticable than completely useless tiny buff on synnergy. And here in mind comes familair skill - Impaling Shards of wardens where morphs alternate skill functionality completely.
During 1st iteration of change during Morrowind pts it had unique effect of restoring resource to caster and it was unique but was changed into smth useless. So it get changed into smth like - deal less damage, but allow caster to use synenrgy too, similiar to boneyeard of necros given that this morph broke rule of zos taht zynnergies only for group play. Or remove synenrgy but allow caster/people to restore resources while standing inside their Luminous Shards. Or remove synnergy, range cast possiblity but allow spear sahrds to work as aoe root, rroting people by its shards inside.

4. Nova ultimate - ultimate that has bis morph for everything - Solar Disturbance, longer maim in pve which is reason to use this ult, longer maim in pvp and affected even enemies moved from its radius. Only reason to use Solar Prison Morph is for ball-groups which should be jsut removed coz unhealthy result for pvp. It could be simply changed to be templar PBAOE similar to Permafrost. To cast on yourself, apply maim and snare enemies inside (btw snare ever since morphs overhaul during Summerset dlc wasnt removed from Solar Disturbance working as bugged hidden effect), stun enemies and deal bursty damage on activating. As i was descring long ago that similar to how Nova of NPCs works and simply fit its name - as Nova is explosion. Simply give us option to have hard hitting large radius aoe expsnive ult with group utility without being forced to play vampire with Scion.

5. Radiant Destruction - as i was writing on pts thread this design is bad itself:

Cinbri wrote: »

Vampiric Drain & Radiant Destruction:
After overhaul of Vamp Drain it became as ranged beam just like templar beam but it works exactly how templar beam should work, i.e. it don't have empty channel on cast, that crippling templar beam.


^^As it shown Drain is ticking since 0.0sec while templar beam ticking after 0.3sec after cast.

As result for Drain it prevent skill from having problems related to empty channel:

^^ It doesn't loosing its function of dealing damage and can be anim cancelled like rest of skills.

But for Radiant Destruction it works completely different:

^^as it seen this 0.3s empty channel create entire pool of problems:
1. Skill can't be used with animation cancelling like other skills, because it proc passive, draining magicka, apply channel debuff, aggro opponent, even playing animation of attack but it stop doing its damage of even 1st tick. We have a weird problem of skill draining its mana cost but not dealing damage with playing misleading animation.
2. Empty channel preventing templar beam from fulfilling its role of execute. Because when execute activated at the beginning of gcd wont deal scaled damage based on % of target hp at this moment, instead it will grant opponent another 0.3s to counter to either completely evade execute by losing/cloaking like this:
or use damage shield or heal, i.e. scaling of execute bonus by default lower than it should be when execute button was pressed to execute Order 66 target.
3. Empty channel heavily negatively impacted by ping spikes. It is especially visible during prime time when coz high ping this 0.3s empty channel preventing skill to deal damage for seconds after activation.
4. Empty channel create an unique bug of skill being force-casted on already dead target and play its full animation. This is caused when beam activated but target died within 0.3s of empty channel, that is not auto cancel beam.


5. It grant additional options of counter channeled execute by bashing or cleansing. So execute despite being used against target wont deal damage but incase of interrupt will also apply negative consequences for caster.

Recap: this empty channel is exact reason why this execute cant fulfill its role of execute in PvP, as it have serious drawbacks caused by empty channel and for this reason empty channel must be removed. so it will function as fluidly as Vampiric Drain.
To retain its 1.8 channel time but with ticking since 0.0 it can get higher frequency but lower damage ticks to be scattered along its 1.8s but turn its from 0.7-0.8s ticks into 0.450s ticks that turn it from 3 ticks into 5 ticks:
0.000 - 1st tick
0.450 - 2nd tick
0.900 - 3rd tick
1.350 - 4th tick
1.800 - 5 tick

P.S.: Having empty channel on channeled ability is like having additional cast-time on ability with cast-time.

However if execute should kill in 1st tick to be effective why even have channeled one. And here we have Radiant Glory morph that is mostly useless nowdays due to execute should kill faster. How bout change this morph to be more pvp-oreinted - i.e. to be instant cast dodeable blockcastable beam, literally similiar mechanic of Force Pulse.

6. Radiant Aura - ever since buffs to Drain and destruction staff, i.e. double buff - there is no point to slot Aura, ever since nerfhammer to Entropy - we lack again viable major sorcery skill. So how bout change Radiant Aura to be class-based major sorcery skill with manasteal debuff with actually worth auxiliary effect taht was stripped away from Entropy morphs.
So it look like smth as:
1. Apply major sorcery and apply minor buffs on yourself for duration of skill. Your light attacks applying minor manasteal debuff.
2. Apply major sorcery and apply minor buffs on yourself for duration of skill. Whenever you got hitted by enemy - you apply 5sec minor manasteal debuff on them. Such mechanic proved to be worknig flawlessly with Leeching Vines, so smth familiar could be implemented in Aura for example.

Jman100582

1). Stamina varients of templar have little to no healing outside of the ritual. If templar is suppose to be the "holy healing archetype," then giving stamplar a stam burst heal would definitely work closer towards that goal. Actually stam varients have very little stamina morhps in general. Maybe give them a class dot, or a stamina radiant destruction. Give them something that premotes better gameplay then just "spamming jabs"

2). passives. Many of the passives only work with certain skills. For example enduring rays is only useful for magplars. magplars can have better ultigen with the prism passive because they have all the dawns wrath abilities. Light weaver passive doesnt even effect repentance as repentance doesnt have a duration. Make the passive effect both morphs of restoring aura, not just one. Get rid of the fill empty soul gems part on master ritualist passive. Give all templar playstyles something actually worthwhile. Like maybe res'd players have increased resource regen for a couple seconds, or maybe after resurrecting an ally you and that player get increased healing received for 2/4 seconds for ranks 1 and 2 respectively. Either way, dawns wrath for sure needs reworks. Restoring light line could use a little tweaks

StarOfElyon

My asks don't change much:

1. Sun Shield - The Radiant Ward morph needs to have the cost reduced significantly. Reason: Magplars should have a class shield that they can use and is unique to them. "Tankplars" don't fully benefit from this morph anyway unless they have high spell damage (because it does damage on activation). It's better fitting for Magplars even though the shield scale is smaller because of a lower health pool. Still, I want to use my class shield!

2. Hasty Prayer should be a selfish heal, grant minor expedition, and have its cost reduced by half. Reason: Templars need a selfish heal (all of their heals can affect other players) and they lack mobility. This won't fix the mobility issue completely but it's better than nothing. (Update: make it a HOT)

3. Vampire's Bane needs a buff. Reason: It got nerfed when ZOS adjusted all DoTs but this was important for Magplars and their class identity.

4. Solar Barrage needs a buff. Reason: Same as with Vampire's Bane, it could use a buff.

Hotdog_23

Cinbri feed back is always on point.

Just a few of my thoughts to add. Let Rushed Ceremony work off highest offensive stat same as Cleansing Ritual to help healing on stamplar since Biting Jabs doesn’t heal us the same as Puncturing Sweep does for the magplar. Be nice if it healed us too like both morphs Death Scythe for necros. Changing Rushed Ceremony would to allow stam to heal and you may see some stamplar healers for dungeons.

Even more sacrilege let the entire resto skill line work off highest offensive stat. 😱

The other change I would like to see to help templar tanks is to have a health-based skill. Change Hasty Prayer to scale off health get rid of the minor expedition part and add a small HOT to it as well say 750- 1k per second for 5 seconds.

Be safe and have fun

maxjapank

Too many dodge-rolling stamina players complained about Radiant Destruction hitting instantly. They claimed it was unfair that Radiant hit instantly. But unfortunately, it is nearly worthless in it's current state. By the time it does any damage, enemy players have already recovered from the >25% range. So yeah, we really do not have a viable execute skill in pvp. The should either make it back the way it was with the initial tick being instant or increase the dmg scaling it does above 25%.

Abyssmol

Make all none class skill lines scale off max stats. I would love to use 2H Dizzying Swing and executioner on my magicka Templar

kalunte

comparing jabs and vigor is dumb. jabs deals twice the dmg vigor can heal in 1s while vigor is 5sec...

Mrtoobyy

So I've been playing PVP for a while now with my templar.
I really agree that templar has some big flaws....

I mean the class shield "Blazing shield" Is anyone even using that on a non high health/tank build? It is utterly crap being such a high costing skill.
We have no AoE root/snare? The snare and the stun/knockback (fReflective light, javelin) we have we must aim before using.
We have no "real" HoT, it's been said so many times now but the coming changes to Ritual of retribution.... come on, for real?
We have really weak mobility, sure we have the best cleanse in the game but the cost!?
We have poor sustain and I will say it like so many others, being a "healer" oriented class we have some ineffective heal spells. They cost way too much... Only minor mending....

Minor/major brutality would be nice for stamplar who does not use 2H/potion massing

And the ultimates they are pretty good but compared to other classes ultimates I would say that the templar class falls short here