[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

ealdwin

Husan wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

Sun Shield and its morphs could definitely use some work. Ideally, one of the morphs would scale off of Max Magicka and provide Magicka Templars with a class shield ability. Personally, I'd like to see this done to the Radiant Ward morph, giving Magplars a better tool for surviving in outnumbered situations. Another thought regarding the Blazing Shield morph, would be to rework it into Blinding Shield, and have it stun enemies on cast, with each enemy increasing the length of the stun. This morph would still scale off of Max Health, and would give Templar Tanks a hard CC option within the class kit.

Scaling off of max resource isn't a bad idea.. max magicka might be a bit too strong for magicka templars, and there are already two other shields that do the same (conjured ward, annulment). However, a morph of the skill scaling out of max stamina, capped at 50% of hp would be a amazing! Stamina templar needs some love, and it fits in the theme of a "holy knight" quite well. It's also in line with the idea that templars are a class that stands their ground, Eric Wrobel words from years ago could finally become true :,D.

My thought behind scaling off of max magicka was that magicka specs tend to rely on damage shields more often for defense in both PVE and PVP encounters more so than stamina. And there was a decent damage shield ability currenlty sitting unused in the Templar toolkit. Though, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to simply have it scale off of whichever Offensive Resource is higher.

That's not to say Stamplar doesn't need better survival tools—it most certainly does—but rather that Mag specs tend to rely on shields more so than Stam specs. Stamplar, from what I understand, needs help in regards with healing and damage output, since the spec is Jabs and Jabs is the spec right now. The first task there would be to make Backlash/PL/PotL a burst damage skill worth slotting again. Then, perhaps a morph of Spear Charge should be stamina focused. Burning Light needs a look over again (as do most passives) in order to not be as punishing to damage output should jabs not land. Then, Eclipse/Unstable Core/Living Dark needs to be reworked again (imo) into a proper survival skill that focus more on defense and healing (damage reduction w/ HoT, for instance), and one that provides a good option for Stamplars. Sun Fire needs made into a proper DoT, and perhaps one morph being reworked into a Stamina morph. Then, Restoring Light skills need looked at, with at least one morph of one of the healing abilities being given to Stamplars.

Honestly, maybe Templars should just start making a new thread for every single ability and passive until they get fixed/improved.

Abyssmol

Does anyone know if ZOS fixed Toppling Charge location desync? - XBox NA the bug that when you gap close to someone the character stops responding. Thank you.

Narvuntien

Templar need a class to immobilise or at least a strong snare for both PVE tanking and in PVP.

mmtaniac

I think i have an idea how rework power of the light.

1.We have ability similiar to nb grim focus that means it work 40seconds ,we get dmg over time that pulse from character every 1 second.

2. Potl will get stacking similiar to ultimate but it work with any dmg tick(one dmg tick one stack) templar deal on enemy from any sources that means we have 25 or more or less stacks to full loaded ability that means you can have after you get all stacks you can active this ability to deal dmg on wish with animation similiar to dawnbreaker something like that and dmg too.

3. Minor breach we can have as passive in dawn's wrath tree after active dmg ability from that tree.

For me this can be better than acutal potl that work only sometimes and is easly purgable half of class roster have purge right now.

Firstmep

Narvuntien wrote: »

Templar need a class to immobilise or at least a strong snare for both PVE tanking and in PVP.

We have multiple snares, sun fire,. Eclipse and jabs all snare.

Hotdog_23

Firstmep wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Templar need a class to immobilise or at least a strong snare for both PVE tanking and in PVP.

We have multiple snares, sun fire,. Eclipse and jabs all snare.

Templar tank generally uses none of the skills you listed or at most not frequently enough. The loss of the snare on Ritual of Retribution while made to please PVP complainers it did hurt the templar tank.

WarriorNinja9

Fennwitty wrote: »

My top two concerns with Templar are:

1. It's hard to make a tank Templar with any crowd control. When a guildmember asked for advice on how to build a tank Templar I was really hard-pressed to find options. ESO could use more tanks in general. "Paladin" has always been a popular idea, especially with new players coming from other games.

2. Too few Stamina class options. It's tough to make a Stamplar without relying on Biting Jabs. Jabs was too strong for sure, but so many other class skills now are prohibitively high-cost Magicka only regardless of morph.

i tried recently to make a solo stamplar. i had 2 options, jabs or brawler. for a class that its description screams damage and healing, i wasnt doing too much of either. youd figure they would be the absolute best choice for soloing cause of their "innate healing capabilities", but no such thing occured during that playthrough

Mitaka211

I don't think there is a point in complaining anymore lol. We have been saying what is wrong with templars for years , walls and walls of feedback and nothing. I took a break for a little over a year and came back to see that they have done NOTHING except for some minor bug fixes or even nerfs. Ults and passives, ults and passives it has been so long since we even got the slightest of hint from them that they are going to do anything. Our healing is a complete joke too, except a not funny one.

Fizzlewizzle

My few cents...

I love my Templar, and i would never change, but there are some parts about the them i can't get behind.

The whole "You have a class with a dedicated healing skill tree, yet it was downgraded so much because people found it overpowered". People, please you have 3 trees to choose from, besides the general healing tree. Is it to much to ask if a skill tree, locked to my class, outperforms your "general available" skill tree?
Having passives like mayor mending would also be nice.

My own two suggestions:
I love the idea of the "House/ Stand your Ground" type Templar. Having more focus around this would be great.

Do note, i'm mostly PVE focused.

For a skill: Blazing Shield.
- Step 1: Add a taunt effect to it (AOE Taunt).
Shields are fine and all, especially if they explode, but if stuff isn't focussing you it won't pop. If you want defence you have the other morph. This would allow Templars to do a better tanking job.
- (Optional) Step 2: Scale the damage of the shield to be better.
I have noticed on my own shield build that most enemies have trouble breaking the shield, meaning you get lackluster damage for a long lasting spell.
While players might be able to do so, having 50k HP with a 15K shield means my damage is ***, and even when i pop i still do *** damage and they walk away.

For Restoring Light skill tree.
Having ground buffs are nice, but there should be a decent tradeoff, especially for the Rune Focus.
Having such a small, stationary area buff should pack quite a punch. The main skill having no "extra" effects isn't a problem, but i think the Morphs should have a goal/ meaning.

One should be offense, while the other should be defense. My suggestion would be (and it might be over the top):
- Channeled Focus: Major Resolve, Major Ward, Major Beserk, Major Force.
- Restoring Focus: Major Resolve, Major Ward, Major Mending, Major Vitality

This should only be active while in the area of the skill.

ichsuisme

I only tested in pvp, but this might bleed over into pve as well -- Blazing Shield, the offensive morph of sun shield, does less damage than the defensive morph, Radiant Ward. I made a separate, nerdy post with math and numbers for more information.

Firstmep

Backlash is still bugged since last update.

Burning light barely ever procs under the new system, and it promotes mindless jabs spam over skillful gameplay.

Its laughable that a skill line passive is only applying to 1 skill in any realistic scenario.

Heavily outdated passives, we still have soul gem filling/resurrect passive, like come on this is 2020!

Stamplar hardly benefits from half of the class passives.

Athan1

Please rework our passives, they are very outdated and provide very little utility. The only useful ones atm are Restoring Spirit, Illuminate and Spear Wall, the rest is not relevant anymore.

mmtaniac

Stamplar healing not exist vigor not work on stamplar because we have 0 option to mitigate damage only mitigate is roll dodge but this is not enough ,stamplar require burst heal ability that work right now not after 20seconds or some little heals everywhere like other classes have.

Dawn wrath passives not exist for stamplar only one passive is worth something .

Passive to get extra soulgem BEST JOKE passive .

POTL is ok but why this can't just deal dmg after those 6seconds like sorc curse.
Playing stamplar in pvp is 80% time you stay on defense and heal self.

StarOfElyon

My experience fighting stamplars is that they are just POTL, javelin, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab, dawn breaker, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab

I understand that their options are limited. That's on the designers. The class looks horribly boring to play.

techyeshic

StarOfElyon wrote: »

My experience fighting stamplars is that they are just POTL, javelin, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab, dawn breaker, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab

I understand that their options are limited. That's on the designers. The class looks horribly boring to play.

It actually can be pretty fun or at least, was; as you need to be quick and aggressive with lack of defense and you don't really go into so many jabs unless you're seeing your target not able to flip the pressure (cloak spamming NBs) as decent stamplars use more than just jabs. I know I need to layers some prep damage and debuffs first or that won't kill a decent player.

Now it really does not matter. Its all about who has better passives and defenses that do not need a resource to scale or scales off health. They have killed classes, let alone stam vs mag

Grimlok_S

techyeshic wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

My experience fighting stamplars is that they are just POTL, javelin, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab, dawn breaker, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab

I understand that their options are limited. That's on the designers. The class looks horribly boring to play.

It actually can be pretty fun or at least, was; as you need to be quick and aggressive with lack of defense and you don't really go into so many jabs unless you're seeing your target not able to flip the pressure (cloak spamming NBs) as decent stamplars use more than just jabs. I know I need to layers some prep damage and debuffs first or that won't kill a decent player.

Now it really does not matter. Its all about who has better passives and defenses that do not need a resource to scale or scales off health. They have killed classes, let alone stam vs mag

Ah finally, balance.

techyeshic

Grimlok_S wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

My experience fighting stamplars is that they are just POTL, javelin, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab, dawn breaker, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab

I understand that their options are limited. That's on the designers. The class looks horribly boring to play.

It actually can be pretty fun or at least, was; as you need to be quick and aggressive with lack of defense and you don't really go into so many jabs unless you're seeing your target not able to flip the pressure (cloak spamming NBs) as decent stamplars use more than just jabs. I know I need to layers some prep damage and debuffs first or that won't kill a decent player.

Now it really does not matter. Its all about who has better passives and defenses that do not need a resource to scale or scales off health. They have killed classes, let alone stam vs mag

Ah finally, balance.

Not really. The passives and different defensive options really add up. Basically just homogenized more.

Grimlok_S

Knew I should have included the '/s'..

Athan1

StarOfElyon wrote: »

My experience fighting stamplars is that they are just POTL, javelin, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab, dawn breaker, jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab

I understand that their options are limited. That's on the designers. The class looks horribly boring to play.

As a Templar, I can confirm this is the case, and stamina is kinda boring. The entire Dawn's Wrath skill line is useless (save for PotL which got nerfed, and the cost reduction passive).

soniku4ikblis

Still very disappointed with this class. Stopped playing it since 2 years ago and returned two weeks ago and nothing has really changed.

I play on my backfoot, tank, evade, and sometimes get a combo in that might get a good player to 55%.

Right now, I am getting clobbered by the gold staff that is a part of weakness to elements. That proc is super strong in 1v1. I pride myself on at least being able to tank on my magplar, but already today I have lost to a pet magsorc and a magNB multiple-times.

I guess I'll go get one, but I wonder if it will get nerfed.

Jabs are still broke. The bread-and-butter skill is still broke. Sigh. Welp, guess I'll go play something else and see if this summer anything changes again.

techyeshic

I've finally given up on templar I've mained since beta. Made it work for a long time stacking up as much damage, speed, and tankiness into my build as possible but the burst combo is weak, stams buff on it is now pointless. Defensives are living dark and blazing shields, with 1 being lacking and the other near useless. Weak DOTs and debuffs, 0 major buffs other than prophecy and 0 mobility built in. I find a burst heal in almost every other class except magblade It's just jabs and ER as the only reason to play it now, and I can make that work but it's boring as hell

StarOfElyon

There's a reason the new classes are the best classes.

Firstmep

techyeshic wrote: »

I've finally given up on templar I've mained since beta. Made it work for a long time stacking up as much damage, speed, and tankiness into my build as possible but the burst combo is weak, stams buff on it is now pointless. Defensives are living dark and blazing shields, with 1 being lacking and the other near useless. Weak DOTs and debuffs, 0 major buffs other than prophecy and 0 mobility built in. I find a burst heal in almost every other class except magblade It's just jabs and ER as the only reason to play it now, and I can make that work but it's boring as hell

Ranged magplar is still fun to play and a nice break from the endless jabs spam.
You can actually line up burst, which is pretty rare for Templar.

sollo_0

endgame (vet trial HM etc...) PVE magicka templar dps main here. Here's my personal pain points:

Damage: templars are not doing enough damage, its impossible to keep up with other magicka classes.

Outdated skills: The skills rotation has changed very little for what feels like the past couple of chapters now. most updates are tweaks or rebalancing what was done in the previous update.


Personal note: my magplar has all my vet achievements. in its current state, I cant take her to vet trials because she's about as useful as a box of tissues. she cant deal significant damage and she doesn't bring anything unique to the group. at this point in time, I don't see any reason to push achievements further on a dead class.

maxjapank

In the Warfare tree, does Deadly Aim, Thaumaturge, and Biting Aura increase dmg of Puncturing Sweeps? Not seeing any difference on a dummy.

Firstmep

maxjapank wrote: »

In the Warfare tree, does Deadly Aim, Thaumaturge, and Biting Aura increase dmg of Puncturing Sweeps? Not seeing any difference on a dummy.

Deadly aim and thaumathurge shouldn't affect sweeps, it's a direct damage aoe skill.
Biting aura should.

Firstmep

With the new patch now in full swing, i figured id take a shot at addressing my current(and ongoing) concerns with the class.

I think the no proc cyro environment also shed some light on some of the class inbalances that already existed.

I do see some positive changes, but frankly most of it is due to global changes.

The extra 1k spell damage for example definetly put HOTD back on the board as a strong burst heal.

Even with only about 4.5k spell damage im seeing 10-12k crits from this heal, which is way up compared to Markarth, at least when running similar/sameish gear.

Light armors stamina management also feels a lot better with the dodge and break free cost reduction passives, even if i wouldve preferred something more magic appropiate defensinve option for the playstyle.

And now the bad:

Dark Flare:

This skill now does barely more damage then for example elemental weapon, on my current build this skill does about 1k more dmg than ele wep. However it has a cast time and a long travel time.
Also @ZOS_GinaBruno it appears the casting animation wasnt properly adjusted for this skill, just like it wasnt with puncturing strikes when its channel time was reduced. In short, if you dont have the precise timing down when to "interrupt" the cast of dark flare, the cast time is the same as last patch, but now the skill does 21% less dmg.

In fact it does less damage now than most Instant Cast Melee Spammables

Now one might think that DF being ranged this is fair, however it also has a super long travel time for its projectile which makes it super easy to avoid.
There can be as long as a 2 second window between beginning to cast this ability and the projectile actually landing.
Thats insane, and thats why i was aganist the damage nerf for this skill.

I would like to see this skill get back its identity as an okay/decent burst opener option for ranged templars.

I think giving the old empower effect, whereby it increases the damage of our next ability/attack by x% would be in line with this, while also wouldnt make the skill a worse spammable for the 2 people that think this is a good spammable skill( for their solo pve questing adventures).

Alternatively, give it a stacking buff, where the cast time would get reduced by x% and the skills damage would be increased by x% every time we use a dawns wrath ability in combat.
This would make it a viable burst skill, again without making it a worse spammable.

Backlash:

I have hated the way this ability functions for so long and this patch its even more apparent than before that its simply a really bad burst skill.
In the current meta where lining up burst is once again the most important thing do, this skill just feels way left behind.

6 seconds in pvp is an eternity, especially when you consider skills like blastbones/shalks/and even stuff like crystal frags/weapon.

It simply takes too long and too much effort to build this skill up and even then the damage it does is just not there.

Also and ive been saying this for years, why doesnt the maximum damage scale with weapon and spell damage?

Templars literally get buffs to these 2 stats and not max magicka and stamina.

Also the secondary effect on Purifying Light is just so weak.. I would like to see minor breach being moved into the base ability.

Also imho, the skill would function better if there were 2 explosions, one at 3 and one at 6 seconds.
Then the second explosion could take into account the first ones damage as well, and making a growing threat, rather than just giving our opponent to do whatever for 6 seconds.

Beacuse lets be clear, the only way anyone decent is going to let us hammer away at them for 6 seconds, is if they are so tanky that it doesnt matter.

Sun fire

This is a skill that used to be quite good and then got completely destroyed by the big dot standardisation.

This skill does weak upfront and weak dot damage, beacuse its power budget is split between the direct dmg and dot dmg components. Yes its overall damage is the same as other standard dot skills, however it deals less dmg than those dot skills due to this split. It also makes it so that the overall damage of the skill doesnt scale as strong with cp as regular dot skills.

Since it does less dot dmg, than for example wardens bees, it also doesnt get buffed as much by thaumathurge for example.
Pretty big oversight imho.
And the secondary effects of a 40% snare and major prophecy are quite outdated, prophecy is one of the easiest buffs to get both in pve and pvp. And templars still have too many snare skills for no reason.

On top we have Vampires Bane, which is a worthless morph, since the dot dmg is so weak, that even if you used sun fire, you would want to reapply it more often in order to take advantage of the upfront damage portion.

Imho this morph would be great to be made a stamina skill, stamplars still dont have a class based dot, on a class thats largely supposed to be about high pressure.

Perhaps it could apply minor vuln instead of a longer dot duration, so that the name wouldnt have to be changed? Or make it a unique buff that increases the amount physical damage the opponent takes by x%. This would also make it a unique skill for templars to take to trials, since we have had most of our unique buffs and debuffs taken away over the years.


I could go on about our outdated passives and such, but for now, these 3 skills are my main worries.

I also want to point out, that ranged magicka templar have been nerfed multiple times over the last few updates, even tho the spec has never overperformed and required far more skill and thought than its melee counterpart.

Burning light no longer proccing on aurora javelin, now dark flare was nerfed without a proper compensation.

I have already made my suggestion for dark flare, for Burning Light however, i would like to make this passive proc on the first tick of any aedric spear ability rather than after 4 hits, that way it can be utilised by more builds, not just mindless jab spammers. Then the cooldown could made longer to make it fair.

Thats it for now.

Obligatory @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GinaBruno

e.gamemarkb14_ESO

I remember a time when there was a cool new MMO called ESO. The combat system in PvP made fights feel alive, fast paced, you had to be careful or you could die relatively fast!

Fast forward many years later, and all I see is meta gaming and fights that last forever.

Players are reduced to very specific meta data moves, abilities, powers they MUST use now in order to be competitive in PvP or have a chance to kill another player of around similar CP strength.

I still see tons of spam from vamp builds that all play the exact same... how boring and unimaginative =(

Waiting for the game combat system in PvP to essentially become like SWTOR where you simply push a few buttons to refresh all your health, your personal shielding, defenses, and shrug off crit attacks and all those direct hits from ranged weapons or the 20x light saber hits you just face tanked that should have ended you 10x over, but hey, #itsMagic

Spend a few hours just watching a few streamers and recent posted YouTube vids on PvP and just /sigh

I guess developers truly are lost, have no idea how to progress the gameplay without artificially increasing survivability to some extreme level of nauseum.

Marchastre

Feels like the devs do not give a thought about the templar and i see this when reading again and again about how the class was nerfed, disfigurated for the sole purpose of boosting others class.

I'm talking as an healer but what i see is:
- Breath of life nerfed again and again while the other class are keeping their class-favored BoL at the same level while synergising with the passives. (Ultimate generation, increased magicka... Take a random buff and they're surely bringing it)
- Healing ritual is useless, a noob-trap that no one thinks to use and the dev are keeping it as "flavor"
- Restoring aura... That's the best. Repentance has been nerfed so it can bring back ressources to allies, radiant aura can now be replaced by mystic orb and work better that way while the original purpose of radiant aura (giving fortitude/intellect/endurance) was removed and given to the Warden as if they didn't have enough buff in their kit.
- Cleansing ritual... Nerf after nerf, still used but a shadow of what it was in pvp. Ritual of Retribution being a good contender on how to backstab a community.
- Rune focus... Well, it's something that exist but it's a fire and forget ability. And no one can use as its utmost potential (Staying in one place for more than 2sec is stupid in pvp) or even use (Not enough place on our bar in pvp)
- Rite of passage? There's a reason why everyone is using a barrier => Being hardsnared by your own ultimate is stupid in every content. Even in world of warcraft they understood that principle.


For the rest?
Clunky passives that are rewarding... Hmm... What are they supposed to reward us? Bring more heal?
While at the same time healers are getting nerfed and/or thrown against OS mechanics?
What i see is a class with a third of its ability dedicated to healing or support and having those third ability slaughtered or stay outdated.

Remember me to not have faith in the dev team in the next big patch, meanwhile i'll head off to my breton necromancer that was buffed with flames of ambition.

Sahidom

Regress the class kit skills since you whacked many skills down but allow the same reason for those changes go unchecked with proc sets.

Thank you.