[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

ZOS_GinaBruno

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

BohnT

Javalin just doesn't synergise at all with the toolkit, templar is About in your face fights but javalin knocks your enemy out of the range of your spammable and your only instant Damage ult.

Change radial sweep and both Morphs to deal 33% more Damage while reducing the extra Damage of crescent sweep to 25% (almost the same as currently) also please increase the range to 8m 6m is just too small

Fix the Bugs and give stamplar some sustain

Neoauspex

1. Class passives are the worst of any class. The need for supplementary regen makes the window of build variety very tight.

2. Consistent nerfs to the power of skills due to CP power creep instead of creative balancing. I.E. troll healthplars can abuse Blazing Shield: make it scale completely worthlessly instead of giving it counterplay (make it defile you, make it bashable, make it hurt your regen, make it work really well against something specific and poorly against other things, etc). I.E. Radiant Destruction is ubiquitously cast from the back of zergs to finish off opponents: make it weak instead of giving it creative conditions (scale inversely off of range, give the target a synergy that pulls caster to them, etc). We need to do a better job making Templar skills risk/reward rather than good/bad.

DeadlyRecluse

1. CC suite, or lack thereof, is incredibly clunky and doesn't synergize well with jabs.
2. The "house" offers no real benefit, especially with the removal of major mending, and I tend to just cast the ground placed skills as incredibly-short duration buffs rather than treating them as ground placed.

...2.5. repentance leading to group member competition rather than cooperation.

Minno

Sustain with our sustsin ability slotted is worse compared to other classes that don't slot their sustain mechanic. And our sustain mechanic is rendered useless once a second templar enters the battlefield and once ele drain is used. Our house cousin, DKs, just received a 3rd source to sustain but Templars received sustain nerfs.

Defense on non-healbots builds is terrible and give no incentive to run other builds. No miss chance compensation, nerfs to boring sun shield, armor buffs requiring standing in the rune to get full 18s, purge cost increased multiple times, block mitigation requires a skill land only impacts melee attacks, only spell resists increased, eclipse gives cc immunity but doesn't control enemy enough to be a viable defense, and healing utility dangerously close to uselessness with crit DMG modifiers no longer impacting healing and no major mending.

Lots of work for Templars, but those are my 2 main pain points.

Revokus

Templar has too many cast abilities make dark flare instant cast and increase the cost or make it a chance to proc instant like sorcerer. Solar barrage cast time needs to be removed also. And sweep is not reliable at all with lag. Either make ranged templar viable via dark flare or fix bugged skills like puncturing sweep and toppling charge.

Sandman929

1. Sun Shield scaling with max health isn't useful, at best, and isn't even really strong on a full health setup anymore (at worst).
2. Bring back the stun with shards. As another post mentions, the only other CC is one that knocks opponents back out of range for jabs.

GreenSoup2HoT

Only issue i have with templars is block casting breathe of life over and over again. Breathe of life in my opinion should be a short uninterruptible channel so you cannot block while spamming it.

Froil

Sustain, especially on stamina templar, even more so when there's multiple. Repentance is just such a greedy ability since that nerf way back when, not to mention in long fights with few to no trash mobs, it's a waste of a slot, save for the Minor Endurance, Fortitude and Intellect.
It should be either reverted to give stamina to all group members near the templar or apply stamina steal. If it did apply stamina steal, it could also work with the Light Weaver passive, which is just useless for stamina templars.
Maybe have Restoring Spirit restore magicka or stamina, whichever's higher, when using a Dawn's Wrath ability or simply attacking an enemy, or have Channeled Focus restore magicka or stamina, whichever's higher.

And something I put in the PTS Update 18 Templar feedback about Solar Barrage.

It would no longer have a cast time, but it would still pulse, like the scamp or Blade Cloak, cost magicka but scale with weapon/spell damage, whichever's higher.

As it is currently, Solar Barrage is still a useless morph. Having that cast time doesn't flow smoothly. This could also allow the Enduring Rays passive to increase the ticks.

Flaminir

Small ground based AoE's to create the templar 'House', such as channelled focus are no longer consistant with the very mobile fights now being brought in with all recent trials EG: Asylum, Cloudrest etc.

Due to the mobility required these buffs/skills now need to be player based not ground AoE based.

Revokus

1) Puncturing sweep is unplayable with lag and it’s the buggiest of all skills along with toppling charge. 2) Radiant destruction does not execute targets below 5-10 % life anymore might as well not slot it in pvp.

Joy_Division

Nice and focused. Keep them coming!

Minno

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Only issue i have with templars is block casting breathe of life over and over again. Breathe of life in my opinion should be a short uninterruptible channel so you cannot block while spamming it.

Yet 2 classes now have a high health scaling heals, and one class has a heal/defense that gives ultimate and ignores GCDs after the initial casting

BoL block casting is the least of your worries lol.

Revokus

1) Being forced to be vampire for mist form in open world pvp because we have no mobility and our house is made of paper in 2018. 2) Having to wear pirate skeleton as a templar in light armor because of the befoul major defile meta and having to spam honor the dead as our only defense.

OdinForge

Idk who is looking at PvP stamplar specifically or if stamina and magicka are being overseen by one person.

My biggest two problems with current stamplar since picking up the class in thieves guild as a main, revolve around sustain and defense. Templar was said to be the "stand their ground", "don't come into my house" limited mobility type class. Stamplar has changed dramatically in how it played back then.

To play stamplar you need to have exceptionally high damage output. Stamplar never had exceptional sustain options even pre-morrowind CP changes and pre-repent nerfs, even engine guardian was changed so that stamplar couldn't repent the dead bot. Stamplar always had two things going for it in the past however, strong stand your ground defense capabilities and high damage output, stay alive long enough to kill for sustain.

I find that if I go out into PvP to play alone for a while that I'm constantly starved on sustain, without the same capability to stand my ground as stamplar used to, playing more kite heavy without actual skills designed to kite. Using things like lingering health potions to prevent my HP from staying low enough to be insta-killed, because major mending was taken away and befoul was over-buffed. When you start adding in things like earthgore carrying your targets, and cheap defensive ults it becomes more complicated.

Both stamsorc and stamnb have ways to be played with high damage, and with the tools to supplement low sustain and defense. Stamsorc can streak away with speed pots and dark deal until a combo is ready, stamnb has a ton of class based sustain tools and reposition tools. Stamplar by comparison feels literally tethered to any form of LOS.

The above is my observation playing stamplar in pvp from thieves guild to now.

tl;dr

1. Stamplar needs better classed based options to supplement sustain.
2. Stamplar should be able to stand its ground better again, return major mending at the minimum.

Minno

OdinForge wrote: »

Idk who is looking at PvP stamplar specifically or if stamina and magicka are being overseen by one person.

My biggest two problems with current stamplar since picking up the class in thieves guild as a main, revolve around sustain and defense. Templar was said to be the "stand their ground", "don't come into my house" limited mobility type class. Stamplar has changed dramatically in how it played back then.

To play stamplar you need to have exceptionally high damage output. Stamplar never had exceptional sustain options even pre-morrowind CP changes and pre-repent nerfs, even engine guardian was changed so that stamplar couldn't repent the dead bot. Stamplar always had two things going for it in the past however, strong stand your ground defense capabilities and high damage output, stay alive long enough to kill for sustain.

I find that if I go out into PvP to play alone for a while that I'm constantly starved on sustain, without the same capability to stand my ground as stamplar used to, playing more kite heavy without actual skills designed to kite. Using things like lingering health potions to prevent my HP from staying low enough to be insta-killed, because major mending was taken away and befoul was over-buffed. When you start adding in things like earthgore carrying your targets, and cheap defensive ults it becomes more complicated.

Both stamsorc and stamnb have ways to be played with high damage, and with the tools to supplement low sustain and defense. Stamsorc can streak away with speed pots and dark deal until a combo is ready, stamnb has a ton of class based sustain tools and reposition tools. Stamplar by comparison feels literally tethered to any form of LOS.

The above is my observation playing stamplar in pvp from thieves guild to now.

tl;dr

1. Stamplar needs better classed based options to supplement sustain.
2. Stamplar should be able to stand its ground better again, return major mending at the minimum.

See my comment, we share similar feedback and I've recently hard swapped to stamplar

I agree with this feedback here as well.

GrumpyDuckling

1) Teamed up Templars have to compete with each other for resource return (Repentance). Sustain is awful to begin with, and now we aren't even guaranteed sustain from using our sustain skill.

2) Using this space to disagree with @BohnT about Javelin because I don't think its fair to ranged builds if it gets changed. Templar is not always about "in your face fights," as the Javelin synergizes very well with the bow and Power of the Light on ranged builds. Please do not change.

Cadbury

The whole "house" concept of the Templar needs to be re-examined. Lack of mobility has always been a detriment to our class, and the game going forward seems to be moving toward a more dynamic, faster paced style of meta. Something that a "stand your ground" playstyle would not have a place in. As mentioned above, our buffs should be focused around us instead of mostly ground based. And the Repentance changes hurt the class by making us fight other Templars for sustain. It only makes sustain that much more difficult for a Stamplar.

There's more I could go into, but I feel these two offer a good starting point in improving the Templars QoL.

Doctordarkspawn

OdinForge wrote: »

Idk who is looking at PvP stamplar specifically or if stamina and magicka are being overseen by one person.

My biggest two problems with current stamplar since picking up the class in thieves guild as a main, revolve around sustain and defense. Templar was said to be the "stand their ground", "don't come into my house" limited mobility type class. Stamplar has changed dramatically in how it played back then.

To play stamplar you need to have exceptionally high damage output. Stamplar never had exceptional sustain options even pre-morrowind CP changes and pre-repent nerfs, even engine guardian was changed so that stamplar couldn't repent the dead bot. Stamplar always had two things going for it in the past however, strong stand your ground defense capabilities and high damage output, stay alive long enough to kill for sustain.

I find that if I go out into PvP to play alone for a while that I'm constantly starved on sustain, without the same capability to stand my ground as stamplar used to, playing more kite heavy without actual skills designed to kite. Using things like lingering health potions to prevent my HP from staying low enough to be insta-killed, because major mending was taken away and befoul was over-buffed. When you start adding in things like earthgore carrying your targets, and cheap defensive ults it becomes more complicated.

Both stamsorc and stamnb have ways to be played with high damage, and with the tools to supplement low sustain and defense. Stamsorc can streak away with speed pots and dark deal until a combo is ready, stamnb has a ton of class based sustain tools and reposition tools. Stamplar by comparison feels literally tethered to any form of LOS.

The above is my observation playing stamplar in pvp from thieves guild to now.

tl;dr

1. Stamplar needs better classed based options to supplement sustain.
2. Stamplar should be able to stand its ground better again, return major mending at the minimum.

This, but in general.

I play a templar tank mostly based of healing, and keep to normal, and I dont feel like I have much ability to do that. Most of my defense comes from sets and innate mitigation from CP.

The healing from Sweep has got better but our passives do bugger all for our sustain, and our defense continues to be based on blocking. Why not bubbles? We alllready have an entire skill dedicated to barriers.

CyrusArya

Stamplar sustain is its most glaring weakness. The class has the least amount of in house passive aids to sustain of any class in the game, and the one active skill it has is useless in-fight until things are already dying...so for example in duels. In practice tho, in solo/outnumbered situations, what I find is you spend way too much time and resources running around trying to stay alive and that really burns your stam. Even in a mit set. Purge is nice, but in practice its needed constantly one after the other and while it removes damage it doesn't exactly mitigate it or increase face-tankability...which cuts deep on stamplar as being based around a channel makes the class vulnerable quite often. This was not much of an issue when we had major mending, but in recent patches with the massive increase of damage its becoming a noticeable one. The defensive options for the other classes mitigate far better, and in turn allow the heals to steadily flow in and makes turning fights from defense>offense easier. Skills and synergies like cloak, ig shield+mending, kiting w/streak+dark deal, shimmering+warden heals and mending....all of these techniques on other classes indirectly translate to sustain. The lesser survivability on top of lesser in class sustain is the greatest challenge stamplar faces, and the two issues go hand in hand on the field.

The second bit I would like to address is in regards to damage. Stamplar damage is the defining aspect of the class. Jabs is unlike any other skill in the game, in that it isn't a simple point and click skill. In a sense it actually requires the user to wield the spear, and has an element of skill and positioning to it that I find no other spammable has. This makes it incredibly engaging to use, but also brings with it a set of challenges. As a channel, it leaves the caster vulnerable and is prone to not connecting against evasive opponents. Furthermore, being a channel it really loses out on light attack weaving, which is becoming a major part of dealing damage in recent patches. As such, the class needs to run a bleed spec to maintain pressure and be competitive with other meta stam specs. But other classes can run bleed builds as well other weapon configurations and still be quite potent in a way stamplar cannot. Literally every other class runs direct damage based specs better due to not having to build around a DoT based channel. This lack of versatility is a concern for me.

Koolio

Cost of Nova
Class execute is terrible now

@Joy_Division I believe it was you with the video of terrible it has become. Can you link me that if it was. I wanted to show some friends

Joy_Division

@Koolio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYhctNG9FNE

Koolio

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Koolio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYhctNG9FNE

That’s the one lol

Sandman929

Koolio wrote: »

Cost of Nova
Class execute is terrible now

@Joy_Division I believe it was you with the video of terrible it has become. Can you link me that if it was. I wanted to show some friends

I already gave two, and I like my two, but yes to these as well. Either the cost or the damage for Nova...same complaint I have with most class ultis is that there isn't much reason to not run EotS particularly in group PvP. Though the major maim extension on Nova is nice.

gabriebe

Honestly cannot remember the last time I died to Radiant Destruction.

Gnortranermara

1. We're missing tons of functionality that other classes have easy access to. We have a main spammable that punishes us when opponents are moving, but we have no reliable CC option (I suggest an AOE root on Spear Shards or one of its morphs). We have no class ability for Major Sorcery (which should be granted by Sun Fire instead of Major Prophecy, which we can already get from Inner Light). We don't have Major Expedition (change one morph of Rune Focus to Inner Focus, make it stay on the caster for the full duration, and grant Major Expedition). We can't get Major Mending from class abilities (put it on a Healing Ritual morph).

2. Channel/cast time abilities are a serious disadvantage and such abilities either need to be much stronger than an equivalent ability to be worth it -OR- have the cast times removed. The cast times were part of an old design philosophy that the rest of the game has outgrown and its time for Templar to catch up with everyone else. The recent change to Healing Ritual is a perfect example of what NOT to do, trading our cast time for an absurdly expensive skill. Instead of a cast time or ridiculous cost, Healing Ritual should be an 8 second AOE Healing Aura centered on caster. Solar Barrage should be instant cast and deal slightly lower damage. Radiant needs a serious damage buff since it locks us into a channel, we can't weave light attacks, and the last nerf was extreme overkill that rendered it weaker than other executes like Impale (change the execute threshold to <25% and give the full damage bonus instead of scaling it). Puncturing Strikes is both melee and a channel, two serious disadvantages that need to be offset with either a damage buff or 8 seconds of Minor Berserk.

Of course doing all of the above might go too far, but we need at least half of these improvements just to pull Templar up to par with the other classes.

Solariken

1. Need a way to combat root/snare spam. Ritual of Retribution could provide 4 seconds of root/snare purge/immunity in addition to cleansing 2 additional effects.

2. Very poor passives that do not synergize with other character mechanics or effects in other skill lines. Several passives are far to narrow in scope and/or don't provide practical benefit in combat (looking at you Master Ritualist).

Solariken

I know I already posted 2 but this needs to be stated:

Burning Light is far too narrow in scope. In PvP it pidgeonholes Templars in to jab spam and in PvE it is only useful for Jabs and Blazing Spear. Please rework BL so that it can proc on all DoT effects.

BaneOfBattler

Give Major Mending back
Undo our nerf to heal and damage from magicka jabs
Give coherent class stuns,
Make sun shield great again

Animus-ESO

My feed back is this.

Jabs/sweeps: condence this skills damage into 3 hits.( A .8 second channel to make weaving light attacks easyer. Move the snare to the first hit.)
Unstable core: make this a unlockable CC with the damage aoe mechanic attached to breaking it. (This will give 2 viable morphs to the skill. One heals the caster with no CC. The other is a CC with a small aoe damage attached to it.)

Toppling charge and morphs: remove the minimum distance limitation to this skill and make one morph stamina based. (This will give stamina users a melee stun that doesnt knock a target away from the user. )

Ultimates:

Radial sweep: make both morphs hit harder (use dawnbreaker as a relative base for balance)
Increase the radius to 6m. Add a knock down on initial hit.

Solar prison: the synergy should automaticly active after 2 second s of dropping.

Passives:

balanced warrior : this passive should add spell damage too.


Illuminate:
This passive should give minor endurance giving Stam regen for 20 seconds.

Sacred Ground:
This passive should give minor movement speed

driosketch

I'm not really sure what templar design philosophy is currently. With each update, I feel like we've moved farther away from a "Templar House" concept. And a lot of things Templars do well have been watered down, with just a hint of class personality left. (I.E., all other things being equal, my Twilight and energy orb sorc is as proficient a healer as my BoL and spear shard Templar.)

BohnT wrote: »

Javalin just doesn't synergise at all with the toolkit, templar is About in your face fights but javalin knocks your enemy out of the range of your spammable and your only instant Damage ult.

With regards to this, Aurora Javelin is useful on a ranged magicka DPS, but it's definitely the odd skill out in the Aedic Spear tree where most skills are about close quarters fighting. Javelin doesn't work too well for a stamplar or magplar melee DPS. Melee Templars are pretty starved for a zero point CC, Sweeps/Jabs sill feel too easy to avoid even with the larger conal area. (Although recent changes mean 2 slot weapons have become more viable sources of CC without losing a set bonus.)

I'd propose turning binding javelin into a magicka based pin without the knockback, or even a root. Take one of the focus charge morphs, and convert it to a stamina gap closer with stun/interupt. That'll give dual wielding stamplars an effective pressure skill, (if it doesn't bug out.)