[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

technohic

^ there is a tradeoff in that you experience all the negative effects of being vamp as well when no skills are slotted.


On another note. Anyone noticing a targeting issue with PL/POTL ? I can have someone tab targeted and cursor on them yet some how it lands on target behind them.

Cinbri

Here we go again.
Overall problems of class remaining and just getting worse -
1. Entire templar damage can be hardcountered by Evasion buff.
2. Entire templar defense can be hardcountered by Defile debuff.
3. Stand-you-ground class that don't have access to stamina sustain passive, that forcing to play magplar into more tankier-less damage playstyle with every update.

Templar damage capabilities getting continuous nerfs:
1. Evasion buff change - it changed from rng buff against which templars had benefit of having lower damage but ignoring evasion aoe skills. Like Jabs that were hitting far less than other spammables but ignored Evasion. Yet because DK and Wardens with their far superior arsenal of AoE nuke skill Evasion started to be hardcounter of entire arsenal of templar damage kit, that especially hurted Jabs.
2. "DoT meta" inadequate changes hurted damage capabilities even harder: magplar being dot-based class for years before dot meta, with problems like Entropy being subpar skill but niche for templar to get buff. Yet after whine about dot being too strong zos didn't just turned back those new dot skills like soul trap and entropy but nerfed all dots, i.e. somehow after years and years of dots being as they are and yet templar being worst damage-oriented class in pvp, in just 1 update it considered that dots too strong and everything got nerfed.
For templar it meant:
a. that not just they getting hardcountered by evasion but also their overall damage output in pvp became even lower because it was dot class like dk.
b. Pre-dot meta problems became even worse, like Entropy which was templar pain-point, not just turned back into low damage it once dealt but also get inadequate treatment of loosing its auxiliary power that every skill should have according to zos, turning into skill that literally being even worse than pre-dot meta when it was already terrible...
c. In exchange of ruining dot damage toolkit in favor of burst damage (which is meta for all those years) for Templars there was actually no improvements of burst capabilities. Only change to burst capabilities were made through inadequate changes of Backlash that just turned this "burst" skill into another dead skill in nocp pvp.
Recap: Templars, specifically magplars just left offboard from competitive play as pvp class, with its damage first being nerfed by Evasion changes, than lowered even harder with dot nerfs and fact that its burst capabilities remained as bad as they were (actually even worse in group scenario).


1. Jabs: still remain as terrible spammable as its cons not took into full consideration of pros in pvp.
1. Its not equalized with other comparable spammables like Flurry and Uppercaut in cast time, instead its cast time is equal to one of ranged spammables - 1.0s. This main reason why you ant use it fluidly in melee playstyle. It also bring problem of its raw damage because default Jabs damage tooltip is obviously higher than Uppercaut but Jabs taking 1.2s casttime with weaving literally exclude itself from perfect rotation within global cooldown of 1.0sec, that literally decrease its actual damage, in addition to having such stuff as Empower buff - making formula "jabs deal more damage coz less light attacks" to actually not working.
2. In addition to cooldown there is no treatment of Jabs being spammable that became affected by Evasion. Like, Onslaught got damage decrease treatment coz it ignore armor, yet Jabs don't have damage increase coz it hardcountered by Evasion, it only got wrong treatment of being longest channel. However treating Jabs this way also problematic because unlike Onslaught that works in 100% scenarios against armor, Jabs while being hardcounteredb Evasion in lot of cases (that simply tied to fact that mainly stam builds have access to it and stam builds are majority as they are bis for a long time) also don't have that sort of punishment against numerous builds, i.e. to majority of magicka builds that don't have access to this buff. So, treatment is problematic as without it - Jabs vs Evasion deal literally no damage, but with it - Jabs vs non-Evasion users will deal more than intended damage. Also in pve there is no evasion debuff and Jabs don't need change there.
So, to fix those 2 problems I just suggest to treat Jabs like Uppercaut-Onslaught: 1. decrease cast time from 1.0 to 0.8s with approximately decrease of damage tooltip 2. turn skill into pseudo-aoe target-based skill instead of aoe-based - like Flurry, can be casted only on targetable enemy and "deal X damage to targeted enemy while dealing X% of damage dealt to main target to enemies in 5m range around", can be dodged by also ignore Evasion. Its visual can be just bit changed from effect of "spark" that proc on every affected by hit enemy into same spark but bit increased in size that proc only on 1 targetable enemy while enemies around receive damage from this visible "spear shards" of spark.

2. Dark Flare: perfect time to finally treat this skill now as only Solar Barrage morph was treated for all previous patches making this morph literally bis in every scenario, even in pvp where in theory Dark Flare defile debuff should make skill shine. If we cant have actually worth Backlash than Dark Flare is best skill for this.
Original non-morphed skills of Flare and sorcs Frags are exactly equal type of skills because it have same cast time, same damage, same cost, however morph of Dark Flare as viable as that other morph of Frags that noone even know how to called as noone use skill coz cast time. So, to gain templars actual burst capability as their dot identity got nerfed - just turn Dark Flare morph into either:
1. As suggested earlier - some kinda of version of Bound Weapons/Assassin Scourge - where light attacks would store damage in form of floating orbs and then caster can instantly release it into barrage of those orbs applying major defile to target.
2. But since Bound Weapons were already copy of Assassin it safier to assume that treat Dark Flare to be closer equivalent of Crystal Fragments is more viable option.
a. So, just change Dark Flare morph effect by removing its Empower buff that should be representation of Solar Barrage morph and by per se it lost its viability after its original function was changed from self-empowering Flare into moderate buff of empowering light attacks.
b. Remove default apply of aoe major defile by skill itself and add proc chance "Casting any other Magicka Ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Dark Flare to be instant, deal 33% more damage, and apply Major Defile." so instead of reducing skill cost it would apply oppressive major defile effect.
Skill would look smth like this:

Ofc with less time of Defile 2sec(4sec with enduring rays passive) to amtch possibility to apply it more oftenly. And rename it into "Dark Barrage".

Such type is what class need unlike Backlash. Backlash usefulness decreased overtime. First inadequate changes to its damage capability I described several times in previous posts, when group utility of skill got removed but all mechanics based on this utility were not adjusted. Secondly, Backlash is telegraphed, not just showing enemy that he gona be focused but also cant store damage passively, like other burst abilities, while you in defense for example, with dot nerfs allowed to passively store damage usefulness of such type of skill decreased a lot. In fast-paced combat (people who play battlegrounds a lot experience this) skill that you forcing you to stay on one target for duration longer than duration of other burst skills, while also being forced to be offensive for full duration for backlash to deal damage - such skill literally have no place in combat. You simply cant dynamically switch targets or cast skill during defensive window to suddenly deal enough amount of damage that would force target to go defensive and you go offensive.

3. Breath of Life - after all unjustified nerfs, skill morph mechanic simply cant compete with other morph or similar skills. Even Matriarch skill have more total heal per cast than BoL. And since too much heal on this morph considered to be OP, here is other ideas for skill:
1. Remove additional heal and turn it similar to Rune Focus - make BoL to restore stamina overtime when heal target that below 75%hp. Tempalr stamina sustain is terrible as it don't have passive or other ways to restore stam apart of Restoring Focus. On magicka build it means that you either forced to use stam focus to get some sustain in exchange of ruining your mana sustain and thus decrease heal/damage or use ordinary mana focus and thus have zero class possibilities to sustain stamina. With such change we would have build diversity.
2. Remove main heal and change it into hot that heal based on % of max hp.
For any of those take golden essence flow animation from Unstable Core that have absolutely no meaning there and add it to BoL effects:


4. Eclipse: there is literally everything going wrong with skill.
1. Fantasy power it represent -
A. skill represent eclipse, i.e. anti-light and visual effect or pure dark is match this but not completely - Living Dark doesn't make it look like light changing it directing by block of darkness, instead this shiny effect looks like source of protective power is light-based. Also name of morph imply that of some kind of inner darkness like possession, that how such effect could look:

Such effect could be easily achieved by effect of darkness of zero stage of unstable core+ floating shadows of living dark for example

combined with

Or by simply adding to it some kind of void glowing, that represent it dark theme and would keep it visible at dark areas. Would lok smth like this:

B. Visual of Living Dark do not fit its effect:

This looks more like shadow improving speed of one who embraced it and thus speed effect as morph version is more RP-wise.
C. Skill is moderate healing while bubble type of effect in game represent either damage shield(like 2nd secret boss in Hallowgrave dungeon) or sort of mitigation. Also "darkness" similarly to "light" effect helps with blocking (Shadowguard CP). Moderate heal on skill doesn't fit any of those. It either should be changed to not being orb or its effect should me switched to fit its visual effect.

2. Balance-wise -
A. Chains of healing power nerfs turned skill into supbar. It cant fit role of strong defensive skill when outnumbered. Amount of heal it provide under heavy pressure is literally similar that provide other skills without any conditions (Spirit Guardian for example), also it don't actually scale on amount of enemies attacking. For example Scales - it is 50% reduction to all incoming ranged damage, i.e. more opponents -more mitigation but not full protection, or Crystal Shield - 100% protection but to limited amount of incoming damage yet having additional bonuses in exchange. For Living Dark it doesn't mean how many enemies attacks as it will scale on stat of caster and thus don't have interaction with number of enemies.
B. Its cost and duration didn't brought to standard of similar skills.
C. Changes to snare of Living Dark goes against how skill treated according to game rules. Changed from root with unlimited range and cooldown into snare with melee range and cooldown. First it goes against role this soft CC was doing - help fight not only melee but also ranged opponent. Also 0.5s cooldown on similar skills added to effects that don't have range restriction (Fiery Scales and Crystal Ward shooting back projectiles). Having melee skill push its effect to effects of Spiked Armor and Undaunted Shield, but it not belong here, because such effects don't have cooldown on their effect in melee range, and don't have target cap; it means if there is 3 people hitting you - 3 people will receive punishment and there is no 0.5s cooldown on it. So, having current snare goes against powerlevel of effects.
I suggest either change effect completely like : a. instead of snare it apply speed. b. change effect into offensive damage dealing like similar effects of Scales and Crystal Shield.
D. Unstable Core after chains of nerfed turned into dead skill - firstly - it not reliable - nor damage nor CC, as both effects scattered across full duration of skill. Secondly it has same problem as Backlash - it not dynamic skill that you can use in open field; only place where it would work is 1v1 but it doesn't - its damage reduced to fit that it turned into aoe, and in only scenario where skill was shining -1v1, it meant that skill per se started to deal less damage and in addition it started t o be affected by evasion buff, turning amount of damage it can deal (even with current cooldown bug when you can proc endlessly within 1sec) into literally unexisting amount. Thirdly - it doesn't fit goal of making skill work in PvE as since overhaul as I repeatedly reported being its effect attached to damage make it unable to proc against majority of adds. I suggest to fully treat this skill into being self-buff and turn Unstable Core into self-buff too and then differentiate both morphs into offensive and defensive. Or turn Unstable Core into self-buff that would work like aoe unblockable stun. We already have ranged CC that help increase gap - Javelin, melee CC that help melee style to close gap - Toppling, we simply don't need Unstable Core in its form of weird mix of CCs+damage as in result it lack potential in both of it.

So, to fix problems of Fantasy Power and skill effectiveness I suggest next( incase bubble style remain):
1. As mentioned above in addition to change Unstable Core into self-buff to rename Living Dark into Solar Eclipse and rename Unstable Core into Lunar Eclipse.
2. For Living Dark/Solar Eclipse - to change it into ordinary black orb of 1st stage of Unstable Core:

and change pattern of floating shadows into white/gold color so it would be smth like representation of coronal flashes or aura of light that you can see during solar eclipses, that would allow to see this effect in dark areas, also black bubble will undoubtly shows up the source of power of skill.
Its morph effect should become oppressive (wrath-type) - turn either back into root that have 0.5s cooldown and melee range restrictions (effect with such restrictions should be strong), or similarly allow it to shoot at enemy fireballs every 0.5sec.
For Unstable Core/Lunar Eclipse make it apply same 1st stage black bubble like Solar Eclipse but make its morph effect protective - for example - apply major protection on caster for 2sec(4sec with enduring rays passive) and visual effect of it would be represented by strengthened bubble effect - Unstable Core's 2nd/3rd stage. So skill on cast for 4sec will look like:

so caster see when effects ends and after it ends bubble turn into ordinary black one:

3. Most important - remove heal and grant effect that match it visual. There is couple ideas:
A. Change it into smth like "block next X attacks". Like mix between Scales and Crystal, where it would still proc only on direct attacks but will reduce its damage for 50% (in addition synnergize possibility with block effects), have limited amount of procs but its strong effect will be block helps against blockable CCs. Visually it will fit - black bubble blocking incoming damage. Also amount of block can be represented by sphere "cracking" with glowy yellow cracks

Incase bubble effect will be swaped - just change those randomly floating shadows into shadows of specific number that would show amount of attacks to be blocked as they would be source of blocking.
B. Just make so skill simply grant Major Protection for duration of skill. And then grant Unstable Core other effect ofc. But it will make skill into weaker version of Scales as it will work also against melee opponents, however will be unable to stack with this strong buff. From fantasy power point of view it would be looking like black bubble indeed mitigate some incoming damage. It will also decrease templar problem of all sources of defense being just yet another healings.
C. Change Unstable Core into back to Blinding Light or dark version of it, smth like" Consuming Darkness" - aoe melee CC, similar to Polar Winds or Talons, that apply either conditional hard cc with some defensive effect or soft CC like roots.

5. Rite of Passage:
It is understandable that its name and names of morphs suggest that it some Incantation and thus should be static with large effect but again from fantasy power I can show that this rule doesn't set in stone.
I will take as example Disney Tangled TV Series cartoon that had incantation in most traditional definition of word:
Checking incantations of same origin, i.e. light-based:
A. Healing Incantation - it is indeed static incantation during which caster is healing all targets around while being protected as caster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQxXRbdPHiQ

B. But here is Hope Incantation - battle-typed incantation that doesn't severe mobility or heal to allies nearby, instead it grant its defensive powers to caster only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-2pp8uiHj4

^^ As you can see Incantations types can be different and we can apply this difference for ultimate morphs:
Keep Practiced Incantation into what it now to keep traditional visage of word, but change Remembrance into more battle-typed version of heal and apply some buff (CC immunity/Major Protection or other sort of buff) to caster only.

6. Passive:
Was said enough about it, especially Master Ritualist that have no rights to exist as class passive. Whatever effect you decide to change it into - as cons of effect it should require Restoring Light skill to be on bar. This way in exchange of strong request it will require from pvp builds to break their mainstream archetype of slotting only offensive skills on mainbar(that don't have restoring light skill) and all defensive on backbar

@ZOS_Gilliam

mmtaniac

Stamina templar need some kind of defense too he have roll dodge but this is not enough damage in game are increase every new patch but templar lack how to defend from these and one of his class heals can be stamina scale too.
Repetance is bad in pvp too because you need kill enemy to get stamina and health back on Nercro this works but he can create corpse but templar lack this.

We have 2 passive similiar like dk one passive Mountain blessing grand minor brutality and bonus ultimate point in templar passive tree this is 2 passives Illuminate and Prism why this can't be merged and we have place to complete new passive.

StarOfElyon

My needs for Templar are basically settled on this:

1. The blazing shield morph needs to have the shield strength scale with the max resource. Reason: Magplars should have a class shield that they can use and is unique to them. Tanks don't benefit from using this morph unless they have high spell damage anyway, unless I'm mistaken.

2. Hasty Prayer should be a selfish heal, grant minor expedition, and have its cost reduced by half. Reason: Templars need a selfish heal (all of their heals can affect other players) and they lack mobility. This won't fix the mobility issue completely but it's better than nothing.

3. Vampire's Bane needs a buff. Reason: It got nerfed when ZOS adjusted all DoTs but this was important for Magplars since they lack the burst of Stam fighters and need to apply constant pressure in the form of DoTs.

4. Solar Barrage needs a buff. Reason: Same as with Vampire's Bane, DoT pressure is important for Magplar offense and its very week right now, damage wise. We'll see how the new changes to Empower affect things.

StarOfElyon

That feeling when shuffle makes it pointless for you to even fight anymore

ZOS, please fix the way puncturing sweeps interacts with Shuffle.

Vajrak

StarOfElyon wrote: »

My needs for Templar are basically settled on this:

1. The blazing shield morph needs to have the shield strength scale with the max resource. Reason: Magplars should have a class shield that they can use and is unique to them. Tanks don't benefit from using this morph unless they have high spell damage anyway, unless I'm mistaken.

2. Hasty Prayer should be a selfish heal, grant minor expedition, and have its cost reduced by half. Reason: Templars need a selfish heal (all of their heals can affect other players) and they lack mobility. This won't fix the mobility issue completely but it's better than nothing.

3. Vampire's Bane needs a buff. Reason: It got nerfed when ZOS adjusted all DoTs but this was important for Magplars since they lack the burst of Stam fighters and need to apply constant pressure in the form of DoTs.

4. Solar Barrage needs a buff. Reason: Same as with Vampire's Bane, DoT pressure is important for Magplar offense and its very week right now, damage wise. We'll see how the new changes to Empower affect things.

1. You're mistaken. It is reliant on High Health. Radiant Ward relies on Spell Damage for output, and scales on targets hit; works reasonably well on my Magplar.

2. Hasty prayer did have Minor Expedition for awhile. It originally had a cast time, a major burst, and 3s later a half-value burst. People were too lazy on figuring out when to cast it, so now it got turned into the crap it is now. Also re: Mobility -- Gap close works damn well, Templar lacks Disengage. Cost used to be a lot lower, so what you're asking for is a revert to what it used to be; much as I want them to do it (Cast time and all) I don't see that happening.

3. I hate this skill, simply because it is the oddball in the kit being fire damage. Magplar lacks on-demand burst, but can pull more procs of Burning Light than Stamplar can typically. I'd personally rather see it changed into a burst cast, get rid of the DoT and just frontload all the damage.

4. Barrage was meh before. It remains meh. Just let the damn skill die already, or better yet, make it into a Tank skill, this can be the slow/lockdown morph if it really needs one (it doesn't, but this would be a good candidate).

StarOfElyon

Vajrak wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

My needs for Templar are basically settled on this:

1. The blazing shield morph needs to have the shield strength scale with the max resource. Reason: Magplars should have a class shield that they can use and is unique to them. Tanks don't benefit from using this morph unless they have high spell damage anyway, unless I'm mistaken.

2. Hasty Prayer should be a selfish heal, grant minor expedition, and have its cost reduced by half. Reason: Templars need a selfish heal (all of their heals can affect other players) and they lack mobility. This won't fix the mobility issue completely but it's better than nothing.

3. Vampire's Bane needs a buff. Reason: It got nerfed when ZOS adjusted all DoTs but this was important for Magplars since they lack the burst of Stam fighters and need to apply constant pressure in the form of DoTs.

4. Solar Barrage needs a buff. Reason: Same as with Vampire's Bane, DoT pressure is important for Magplar offense and its very week right now, damage wise. We'll see how the new changes to Empower affect things.

1. You're mistaken. It is reliant on High Health. Radiant Ward relies on Spell Damage for output, and scales on targets hit; works reasonably well on my Magplar.

2. Hasty prayer did have Minor Expedition for awhile. It originally had a cast time, a major burst, and 3s later a half-value burst. People were too lazy on figuring out when to cast it, so now it got turned into the crap it is now. Also re: Mobility -- Gap close works damn well, Templar lacks Disengage. Cost used to be a lot lower, so what you're asking for is a revert to what it used to be; much as I want them to do it (Cast time and all) I don't see that happening.

3. I hate this skill, simply because it is the oddball in the kit being fire damage. Magplar lacks on-demand burst, but can pull more procs of Burning Light than Stamplar can typically. I'd personally rather see it changed into a burst cast, get rid of the DoT and just frontload all the damage.

4. Barrage was meh before. It remains meh. Just let the damn skill die already, or better yet, make it into a Tank skill, this can be the slow/lockdown morph if it really needs one (it doesn't, but this would be a good candidate).

I know shield strength is based on health, I was talking about the damage on activation. Low spell damage results in lower damage, I think. So tanks don't benefit as much as they do from the other morph which does damage based on damage taken. Therefore, Blazing Shield should be the morph with shield strength that scales with the highest resource.

Cinbri

Regarding Backlash:
After latest skill changes only remaining mechanic that was justifying low % of stored damage amount is possibility to stack damage or saving damage stored of previous Backlash and transfer it into next Backlash. However this code of this mechanic actually not working as in PvP scenario it saving only % of damage dealt by initial hit of Backlash, and not by all incomed and stored damage, so de facto it not working. In PvE it also causing weird results that easy to create:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-zhnjmQS3s

^^ So, just like Blazing Shield in 5.2.7 each new Backlash should "wipe its memory clean of all the transgressions it experienced, if any", i.e. to no longer has its memory.
And after that the very last reason of not updating Backlash to new rules will be gone.

Cinbri

Even changing Eclipse into toggle taht you have to manually disable that: "apply Major protection for duration of toggle that drain X Magicka per second" or "Sphere block incoming attacks, every blocked attack drain X Magicka" would be far more usefull than what Eclipse now.
In exchange of improving proactive defense our retroactive defense could be lowered into smth like:
Ritual of Retribution: "no longer purge 2 effects on cast but purge 1 negative effect every 5sec while you stand inside of ritual."
Extended Ritual: "purge 2 effects on cast, and purging 1 negative effect every 5sec while you stand inside ritual."
^^To make retroactive power of those skills less front-loaded but keeping unique feel as adding purge-over-time was considered as small buff by zos regarding warden Netch.

Abyssmol

StarOfElyon wrote: »

That feeling when shuffle makes it pointless for you to even fight anymore

ZOS, please fix the way puncturing sweeps interacts with Shuffle.

Shuffle plus the DW weapon. Don't even bother fighting, just move away!

mmtaniac

Templar require sustain passive in one of the skill tree something with regen stamina or magicka i dont know how maybe when he have less than 30% of resource it active for 10seconds. Sometimes its impossible to regen sources fast compared to other classes i already use 3x ifused stamina recovery still lack in critical situation dk or sorc not have this kind of problem. I know i about potions but still other classes have potions too and have regen resources anyway.

Restoriation light last passive with ressurection its complete waste in many situation maybe only on raids it can be usefull but on other scenarios its just waste of skill points.

BNOC

Abyssmol wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

That feeling when shuffle makes it pointless for you to even fight anymore

ZOS, please fix the way puncturing sweeps interacts with Shuffle.

Shuffle plus the DW weapon. Don't even bother fighting, just move away!

It’s not all DW it’s specifically BRP DW which grants Major Protection that’s attached to evasion as its proc condition.

So we get 25% aoe reduction on evasion cast, followed by 30% flat reduction. I’m not sure if it’s additive or how that mitigation works but it’s a lot.

People running that clearly need the help and have become the new bis target dummy’s.

Cinbri

BNOC wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

That feeling when shuffle makes it pointless for you to even fight anymore

ZOS, please fix the way puncturing sweeps interacts with Shuffle.

Shuffle plus the DW weapon. Don't even bother fighting, just move away!

It’s not all DW it’s specifically BRP DW which grants Major Protection that’s attached to evasion as its proc condition.

So we get 25% aoe reduction on evasion cast, followed by 30% flat reduction. I’m not sure if it’s additive or how that mitigation works but it’s a lot.

People running that clearly need the help and have become the new bis target dummy’s.

Don't forget that majority also use morph with major speed and thus people can literally dance around you and you wont even connect your jabs with them due to how desynced Jabs are.

mmtaniac

BRP dual wield need nerf to be something about 15% as unique buff but 30% with almost 100% uptime its too much with shuffle for templars ,potentates set its not that strong and still viable

BNOC

mmtaniac wrote: »

BRP dual wield need nerf to be something about 15% as unique buff but 30% with almost 100% uptime its too much with shuffle for templars ,potentates set its not that strong and still viable

Especially when you consider that they took the same buff off of Wizard Riposte’s 5 set bonus; a set that had proc conditions out of your control and didn’t come attached to some other mitigation. Craziness..

BaiterOfZergs

Funny thing about brp being used is that it’s usually by the same people that complained about pirate skeleton but they see nothing wrong with BRP.

mmtaniac

only balanced mitigation in pvp are armor you can counter it somehow but major protection should be on ults or some specifi to use abilities like necro abilities with eating corpses still he need produce those corpses not just cast ability and tadam im invicible

Cinbri

mmtaniac wrote: »

only balanced mitigation in pvp are armor you can counter it somehow but major protection should be on ults or some specifi to use abilities like necro abilities with eating corpses still he need produce those corpses not just cast ability and tadam im invicible

That where the problem with vanilla classes vs p2w classes. Necro have this super strong buff in skilline, it conditional but still allowing them to run glasscannons and still be tanky. While wardens have another unique Major Heroism buff attached to Shimmering Shield, that allowing them to literally have ult generation of Emperor, which allow to spam ults left and right. But for vanilla classes - there is no implemented unique powerhouse stuff.
It one of the things that making gap between p2w and vanilla classes bigger and bigger.

Hotdog_23

Rushed Ceremony needs to scale with highest stat and not only magic this would help both tanks and stamplars. Focused Charge needs a stamina morph. Templar needs major expedition somewhere in their toolkits outside of hasty prayer minor expedition. Love Cinbri idea for dark flare.

newtinmpls

Templar?

Well, 1- it's crap since it was nerfed to heck when Warden initially came out.

2-See 1

Jabbs_Giggity

mmtaniac wrote: »

BRP dual wield need nerf to be something about 15% as unique buff but 30% with almost 100% uptime its too much with shuffle for templars ,potentates set its not that strong and still viable

Disagree. BRP DW is fine. It's a 3 sec ability, enough time to pop a cleanse then vigor [bar swap] nothing more...Other classes have much more powerful skills built into their kit that offer higher up-time at less cost (mostly).

I have been killed easily using BRP DW, as I have also killed easily against others using BRP DW.
BRP DW = resource drain and has become the only viable OH [snip] button, since ZOS has nerfed so many classes to the ground in favor of P2W classes.

[edited for profanity bypass]

BNOC

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

BRP dual wield need nerf to be something about 15% as unique buff but 30% with almost 100% uptime its too much with shuffle for templars ,potentates set its not that strong and still viable

Disagree. BRP DW is fine. It's a 3 sec ability, enough time to pop a cleanse then vigor [bar swap] nothing more...Other classes have much more powerful skills built into their kit that offer higher up-time at less cost (mostly).

I have been killed easily using BRP DW, as I have also killed easily against others using BRP DW.
BRP DW = resource drain and has become the only viable OH [snip] button, since ZOS has nerfed so many classes to the ground in favor of P2W classes.

It's one of those where 3 seconds is less than someone needs to completely kill my burst.

As a magplar I find it incredibly difficult to burst someone down that's popped brp and when it's coupled with any of the following: roll, hot, basic jumping or speed modifiers to swerve sweeps, it becomes next to impossible against a competent player to deal that final blow, regardless of how you time your stun.

To out damage a skilled player coupling a few of those simple mechanics/skills I have to build for near max damage and if they don't have the burst for me, they are usually just infinite health target dummies that thrive off of surviving so easily.

It's probably more of a sore spot for templars because of the way evasion affects us, but there ya go, it's basically a hard counter and with the amount of players running it, does pigeonhole me into high damage, low resi/reco builds.

[edited to remove quote]

Jabbs_Giggity

BNOC wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

BRP dual wield need nerf to be something about 15% as unique buff but 30% with almost 100% uptime its too much with shuffle for templars ,potentates set its not that strong and still viable

Disagree. BRP DW is fine. It's a 3 sec ability, enough time to pop a cleanse then vigor [bar swap] nothing more...Other classes have much more powerful skills built into their kit that offer higher up-time at less cost (mostly).

I have been killed easily using BRP DW, as I have also killed easily against others using BRP DW.
BRP DW = resource drain and has become the only viable OH SH** button, since ZOS has nerfed so many classes to the ground in favor of P2W classes.

It's one of those where 3 seconds is less than someone needs to completely kill my burst.

As a magplar I find it incredibly difficult to burst someone down that's popped brp and when it's coupled with any of the following: roll, hot, basic jumping or speed modifiers to swerve sweeps, it becomes next to impossible against a competent player to deal that final blow, regardless of how you time your stun.

To out damage a skilled player coupling a few of those simple mechanics/skills I have to build for near max damage and if they don't have the burst for me, they are usually just infinite health target dummies that thrive off of surviving so easily.

It's probably more of a sore spot for templars because of the way evasion affects us, but there ya go, it's basically a hard counter and with the amount of players running it, does pigeonhole me into high damage, low resi/reco builds.

Not much different than fighting a mag toon that uses Undeath passive as a Vampire with high burst heals...or shields...

mmtaniac

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

BRP dual wield need nerf to be something about 15% as unique buff but 30% with almost 100% uptime its too much with shuffle for templars ,potentates set its not that strong and still viable

Disagree. BRP DW is fine. It's a 3 sec ability, enough time to pop a cleanse then vigor [bar swap] nothing more...Other classes have much more powerful skills built into their kit that offer higher up-time at less cost (mostly).

I have been killed easily using BRP DW, as I have also killed easily against others using BRP DW.
BRP DW = resource drain and has become the only viable OH [snip] button, since ZOS has nerfed so many classes to the ground in favor of P2W classes.

Yes its fine with one cast you remove 55% of jabs dmg yeah its fine off course

[edited to remove quote]

Jabbs_Giggity

mmtaniac wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

mmtaniac wrote: »

BRP dual wield need nerf to be something about 15% as unique buff but 30% with almost 100% uptime its too much with shuffle for templars ,potentates set its not that strong and still viable

Disagree. BRP DW is fine. It's a 3 sec ability, enough time to pop a cleanse then vigor [bar swap] nothing more...Other classes have much more powerful skills built into their kit that offer higher up-time at less cost (mostly).

I have been killed easily using BRP DW, as I have also killed easily against others using BRP DW.
BRP DW = resource drain and has become the only viable OH SH** button, since ZOS has nerfed so many classes to the ground in favor of P2W classes.

Yes its fine with one cast you remove 55% of jabs dmg yeah its fine off course

Don't be so butthurt. Honestly, there are plenty of counters. BRP DW happens to be a counter to high burst classes. Also, majority who use BRP DW are Stamplars who lack in defense as it is, furthermore in heals. If it upsets your burst rotation then it is doing what is intended.
Sorcs have shields that need to be bursted through and burst heals to counter DPS.
Magplars have burst heals and ranged attacks. Also, can use undeath passive from Vamp line = same as BRP DW.
MagDKs have Crowd Control, Major Mending, burst heals and resource regen through Ult.
Magdens have access to Major Heroism on demand, great utility and speed, Major Protection through Ult, burst heals.
Magblades (albeit extremely nerfed) have shade to reset the fight and low cost ults. Plus mitigation through merciless stacks.
Magcro - Don't know don't care.
All mag classes have access to BRP Resto.

Stamina classes have Vigor and Rally, no shields, rarely other forms of mitigation. They are reliant on high DPS and mobility, so therefore do rely on "broken" sets like BRP DW.

mmtaniac

I maybe butthurt too much sorry but you must understand that templar right now become like 0 dmg class jabs are mitigated almost at every place and half of class roster have purge that mean you power of the light means nothing at that place you defense is nothing because healing sometimes is nothing when you cant survive dmg and heal that.

Stamplar required some better defense not only heal.

Jabbs_Giggity

mmtaniac wrote: »

I maybe butthurt too much sorry but you must understand that templar right now become like 0 dmg class jabs are mitigated almost at every place and half of class roster have purge that mean you power of the light means nothing at that place you defense is nothing because healing sometimes is nothing when you cant survive dmg and heal that.

Stamplar required some better defense not only heal.

I don't need to understand anything. I have mained a Stamplar since Console launch and have adapted through all of the play styles, good and bad. Right now Stamplar has great burst potential, if you know how to play the class. What Stamplars lack is healing, defense and mobility (specifically escape/disengage mobility).

I haven't played since weeks before current patch. I logged in once, for an hour to see the current state of game. I was literally deleting people on my Stamplar in both BG's and Cyro! I haven't even changed my sets from Ravager + NMG...

If you think that BRP DW is the problem to your Stamplar, then you are dead wrong. Maybe you should run the dungeon, get the set and try it out...until ZOS gives Stamplars viable defensive capabilities (I.E. listed above), I will continue running BRP DW on back-bar.

RiskyChalice863

I’m really loving my high elf Magplar in PvP right now. It’s running Spinners + Bright Throat’s + Mother Ciannait (the latter of which actually is surprisingly pretty good IMO), and has felt so good/fun to play in BGs. I’d been running my Magplar as a crafter for a while now (because he’s the only one with leveled up crafting skills, not because I had issues with the class), and I’d forgotten how good Magplar feels. I actually really think it’s one of the best designed classes in the game.

kalunte

if i can have a word here, jabs are benefiting a lot of burning light passive which makes it viable even against evasion ppl (i know it from being one of templar's favorite target ;p).
they are doing more base single target dmg than dark flare (about 10% more) with the same cast time + aoe + 4chances to proc burning light making it doing up to 100% more dmg.

this skill needs to be considered with passives and properties, not only by numbers.


(i'm looking into rerolling plar someday... dont spite at me yet ^^)

StarOfElyon

kalunte wrote: »

if i can have a word here, jabs are benefiting a lot of burning light passive which makes it viable even against evasion ppl (i know it from being one of templar's favorite target ;p).
they are doing more base single target dmg than dark flare (about 10% more) with the same cast time + aoe + 4chances to proc burning light making it doing up to 100% more dmg.

this skill needs to be considered with passives and properties, not only by numbers.


(i'm looking into rerolling plar someday... dont spite at me yet ^^)

Jabs are strong but the magicka morph (puncturing sweeps) is not. It's useless against evasion. The heal is based on damage done so that part is also nullified by evasion.