[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Firstmep · August 2020

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

So I've been playing PVP for a while now with my templar.
I really agree that templar has some big flaws....

I mean the class shield "Blazing shield" Is anyone even using that on a non high health/tank build? It is utterly crap being such a high costing skill.
We have no AoE root/snare? The snare and the stun/knockback (fReflective light, javelin) we have we must aim before using.
We have no "real" HoT, it's been said so many times now but the coming changes to Ritual of retribution.... come on, for real?
We have really weak mobility, sure we have the best cleanse in the game but the cost!?
We have poor sustain and I will say it like so many others, being a "healer" oriented class we have some ineffective heal spells. They cost way too much... Only minor mending....

And the ultimates they are pretty good but compared to other classes ultimates I would say that the templar class falls short here

In no cp its even worse, Honor the Dead just doesnt heal enough even on a build with really high stats.

Ritual heal ticking every 2 seconds is just too weak.

Eclipse is too situational and does nothing aganist the dot-prc meta we have atm, and even before the heal was too weak after they nerfed it. Not to mention costs nearly as much as HotD, but without the mag return, its very difficult to sustain it in no cp.

Repentance has been garbage for years now, Meditate is literally better in every way, shape or form.

Minor Mending is nice, but in pvp its just simply not enough.

We still have too many useless passives. Like 2 extra seconds on sun fire? YAY!
Filling a soul gem upon resurrecting an ally?

Meanwhile i look at necro passives and i literally want to cry myself to sleep.

Athan1 · August 2020

1. I will agree that our passives are completely outdated and fall way behind passives from newer classes. Our passives were designed at a younger state of ESO and no longer keep up with modern gameplay.

2. We've had all our snares and cc taken away from us. Tankplars are the worst tanks in this game. Sure, it's the healing class, but heal tanks are a thing. We need our ground aoes to snare again or just give us something back. Living dark is not enough and needs to be reworked anyway.

3. Virtually no stamina options but jabs, stamplars literally have to use magicka spells. Again this is incongruent with other classes that can use stamina morphs.

Mrtoobyy · August 2020

Firstmep and Athan1.

I agree with everything you said!

Gorreck · August 2020

Athan1 wrote: »

3. Virtually no stamina options but jabs, stamplars literally have to use magicka spells. Again this is incongruent with other classes that can use stamina morphs.

And if the AOE "test" sticks Stamplars won't even have Jabs as a viable option.

mmtaniac · August 2020

This is nice patch for stamplar its even more crappy then before gj zos

Kardrik · August 2020

Can Stamplars have some more abilities that are useful to them please? My stamplar has only 4 Templar thingies slotted. Jabs, Power of the Light, Restoring Focus, and Repentance.
Repentance is only good for mob heavy PVE, but outside of that stamplar has no good class based heals.

I feel like stamplar has very little class identity, because the only thing really available to the kit outside of those 4 abilities is that Javelin morph that nobody wants.
I'll be honest, only reason I used RoR was to be thematic. I'm playing a templar, I want to give a little healing to my teammates while damaging my enemies!
RoR, as it was before, was really thematic to the stamina templar! It hurts enemies for being in it, and helps allies for being in it! Only thing that would make it more thematic would have been a snare, and maybe a minor buff to allies defensives while sitting in it.
But you took stuff away from it, to make it more similar to what other classes have. Making it similar to other classes is what makes the classes feel less unique, it blurs their identity!

Removing the heal removed the Templar feel from Ritual of Retribution completely.

So Please, make more abilities useful for the Stamina Templar please, we are feeling some major lack of class identity right now

Cinbri · September 2020

Starting from passives as they in dire need of being updated. While passives that got recently redesigned still need adjustments:
A. Burning Light:
1. Burning Light procrate in PvP post update and from 2019 stats:

so while old rng-based was approximately 1 proc per 5.5 aedric skill hits at least with my melee playstyle, new one is 1 proc per 8.9 aedric hits which is large procrate reduction and thus huge damage loss.
2. As shown on pts which can easily emit pvp perfoamnce on live - 1sec stack is simply not enough to safely store BL stacks:

Cinbri wrote: »

Burning Light 1sec duration of stacks in not enough.
pts with 200 ping and even using 4 consecutive aedric skills on cooldown is unable to proc passive. On live server it will drastically reduce possibility to proc BL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEI4B5kqgxg
Increase duration of BL to atleast 5sec.

3. As already showed on pts - total procrate of BL is reduced twice for aoe scenario where there is at least 2 enemies:
Old BL:

New BL:

4. Due to inability to proc BL twice per 1.0s anymore it lost it burst nature.
Recap: In PvP - passive lost it burst potential, it damage output in aoe scenarios decreased twice, it total procrate in pvp and thus total damage decreased for ~40%.
Its redesign completely ignored pvp aspect and thus no wonder that result is passive's drastical reduction of perfomance. I believe for all those losses of its offensive capability passive should get full reliability and thus each tick of aedric skill to account and not lost for BL proc. For that I once again suggest to increase duration of BL stacks to at least 10sec, similarly to how mechanics based on light attacks based - 10sec duration of each stack, or add skill memory similarly like Bound Weapons and Grim Focus have with increased duration of saving stacks timer even further.

B. Light Weaver:
As expected its hp threshold too punishing and in pvp passive strength vs effect usefullness are not equal. Due to it being limited in pvp to literally only 2 skills - Rushed Ceremony and Cleansing Ritual. Ritual is per 2sec so it like 1ult per 1sec but for that you need to keep being low hp. On magplar it doesnt work effectively coz Ceremony instantly bring you out of 50% threshold and you keep low hp it means you at such heavy pressure that couple more ults wont change tide of combat; while for stampalrs only wasy to proc is Ritual and in theory with SNB Ult on hot-based spec it would work far better but problem is that Ritual is static and as result stamplar during hard pressure will kite and literally leave Ritual in next couple seconds before next tick of Weaver even proc.
Here is one fight from IC event as example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_K1j1c5rC0

Recap: passive still dont grant its effect that could change tide of combat consistently and only time when it reliably proc is during super hard pressure when you unable to survive and get benefit of passive, where only way to get desirable effect is group play with lot of crosshealing.
So I suggest to either increase strength of effect of passive or improve its reliability.
Making passive to proc on all heals would be overpowered - so i suggest to increase hp threshold to at least 60% which would be enough to make passive strong enough or swap generic buff into major heroism buff keeping same threshold that will synnergize with magplars burst heal as main survivability tool and stamplar possibility to proc it not that often by Ritual.

C. Mending:
As I already mentioned on pts:

Cinbri wrote: »

Doubtfully it will be addressed this update but I would like to point another pain point of survivability of Templars. Unlike other reaons this is easy to solve tho and this reason is - similarly to old Spear Wall passive,Mending passive is outdated.
Here is comparison:

current Mending on left with pre-1.6 effect in comparison to necro passive.
Before 1.6 patch this passive was similar to waht necro passive is now - rng-based boost of healing. However after patch it was changed into non-rng constant effect, but main problem that very visible nowdays is that it stoped interacting with all healings, but only with Restoing Light skills. Maybe it was done to balance it out with old Focused Healing that was on level of constant healing boost that transformed into constant Major Mending, which was overpowered.
In result total healing, which btw is class main defense got serious decrease in its effectiveness, and equally affected both stamplars and magplars as amount of used sources of healing outside of jsut 1 skill tree is vast (for example main stampalr heal is locating in Alliance War line; while lot of healing skill morphs of magplar are located in Aedric Spear and Dawn Wrath lines).
Necromancers got old effect of Mending in their passive but updated version - Difference from old Mending and NDE is mechanic that it require skill of skilltree to be slotted but in return effect is stronger (15%<20%) In case of Mending - healing increase % not needed coz passive effect is, unlike familair passive, is not rng-based and thus more reliable. Thise would allow build diversity when you can play with your main/backbar skill bars and serve role of teaching new players to slot skills on their bars, so it strictly positive limitation; but also to proc healing-based passive it require to slot skill from exact this healing-focused skill line to keep it in control.
And for that reason Mending should be updated into similar manner - it should start require Restoring Light skill to be slotted on its bar, and affect all healings.
So it would look simply as that:

Simple update of passive.

Passive need update to current reailities of class to benefit from far more heals that jsut Restoring Light skills. Magplar has Sweeps heal, Purifying Light aoe heal, Living Dark heal, Radiant Glory heal. While stamplar literally boost only 1 skill by this passive - Cleansing Ritual, while all of the rest heals are non-Restoring Light.
Overhaul i suggest will have straight positive effect on offense of templars in pvp as it will no longer promote only archetype of tempalr to use 1 bar for straight offense and 1 for defense. With such adjust it will require offensive tempalr to slot 1 RL skill on offensive bar isntead of offensive skill but as result will boost heal that would allow to stay offensive bit safier, that is hard when main class-defining dps spammable is 1.0s channel.
According to data I recieved from necro - their passive alone(i.e. old improved version of Mending) in total healing done scenario of intense outnumbered battles literally doubling total crit chance of healing skills. Without adjustment Mending old overhaul turned straight rudiculous nerf instead of actual improvement.

D. Prism/Illuminate:
Some of templar passives strength and effects are equal to dragonknight, apparently coz back intime those 2 classes shared vision of "stand-your-ground" classes. But templar passives were ignored for years, for example like it was with Spear Wall vs Iron Skin where passive provided nearly similar effect but one passive was obviosuly providing stronger one mathematically.
Spear Wall was addressed but so we can move to next problematic passives. I wil just leave this screenshot here:

I think problem is pretty obvious - addressed in 1.6.5patch (5 years ago!) dk passive is absolutely equall to combination of 2 unaddressed templar passives and given that cumulative strength of passive trees of dka are equal to templar since release - this is disbalance at its best, far bigger than Spear Wall was. It literally, in comparison to similar class, having 1 less passive in Dawn Wrath tree similar to how templar has 1 less passive in Restoring Light tree coz Master Ritualist is jsut facepalm. Obviously templar passives wont be combine in same manner to avoid homogenization so both passives should recieve small additional effects.

E. Master Ritualist:
So many words were said about its uselessness, so I wont write wall of text again apart from mention again that it work only retroactive on ressurect and have no benefit in fight and then numbers how passive interract with game:
[reserved for numbers]

F. Nova:
Most problematic ult that has big potential in pvp. Back in time Solar Disturbance was snaring opponents for 65%, which obvious was placing this utl as pvp-oriented as you dont need any snare for adds and it doesnt work on Bosses in PvE. Snare was removed (actually it not because even tho ult doesnt say anymore that it snare targets inside - it still apply 65% snare which is bug from its old iteration) and changed for allowing debuff to stay on opponents for few seconds, apparently so if enemy in pvp leave its 8m area - it will be still partially effected by skill. But this doesnt became as improvement for pvp because damage of ult is just as important as additional effects. Imagine Permafrost without its aoe damage - noone bother about such ult. Instead it became must-have morph for PvE because there damage doesnt matter much especially given that it healer role to keep group alive and thus use this ult and healers dont have stats invested into damage anyway; but 6 more seconds of major maim is like making ultiamte18ult cheaper and allow longer safetime with shorter cooldown.
It also negatively affected other morph - Solar Prison, in both pvp and pve. In PvE - even tho tanks use Harmony trait, they still wont get benefit of synenrgy coz major maim is very strong debuff taht grant more usefullness to ult in compare of jsut couple thousnds more damage once per millenia. In PvP - noone slot previously pvp-oreinted Solar Disturbance because static ults have no palce in pvp unless it fit into pvp like short duration-high burst ult like necro Colossus, or rudiculously strong effect like Negate. Instead people started to use unhealthy mechanic - slot Solar Prison, par it with harmony trait and use it as ball-group burst ult like if they roa through bunch of mobs; at same time ult has even less viability for solo players because you cant activate your own synenrgy.
So I suggest to properly address Solar Disturbance morph as pvp-oriented and change it similarly to Sleet Storm - into PBAoE. Damage and duration of both ults are standartized, showing that in theory it should be equall ults but due to different mechanics Sleet Storm is good while Nova is choice of noone in pvp.
1. Nova radius is jsut 8meters aoe, apparently because it can be casted on range. So as pbaoe its radius should be adjusted to standarts of new ults - Sleet Storm and Swarming Scion, i.e. to 10m up from 8m.
2. Its should loose its synnergy capability which can be partially regained through other means.
3. Reduce its cost to 200 ult similarly to Sleet Storm.
5. Its special effect can be either - reintroduced snare, or reintroduce stun mechanic of synenrgy by either make ult stun upon casting or stun targets after 3rd hit.
6. Most important is major maim debuff. Obviously it will be weaker than major protection because lot of range opponents, while Sleet Storm doesnt bother about such stuff. And here Nova can imitate how Blinding Light could work nowdays if it would be self-buff: how would being covered in aura of blinding light could affect enemy offense?! Simply - instead of buff it would apply debuff on targets that are attacking caster. So Nova instead of apply debuff on everyone whom it hits would apply major maim debuff on targets who dealt any source of damage to caster. Such mechanic is not new and succesfully work for wardens. Literally reversed major protection. And its visual effect could imitate this cool visual effect of oppressive light from Merdias dung:

Visual effect on caster is also already available - literally jsut take particle efect of sun's fracture and make so templar is vocered in this holy light, similar to how dk covered in fire with Flame of Oblivion or wrden coeverd in ice with Sleet Storm:

So templar literally turn power of the sun to aid him. Templar is in dire need of such ult, especially after cahnge to Radial Sweep that i will talk below - expensive large aoe with group utility offensively-defensive ult. Not having it is pigeonholding class into going vampirism and use Scion as only available such type of expensive ults.
Another idea: jsut turn it into how npc version, Sacred Nova works - burst aoe explosion of sun either coming from same sun fracture like now or like npc one - from caster body Nova is literally sun explosion after all. Literally mix of necro Colossus and nb Soul Tether.

G. Radial Sweep:
1. While ult was getting cast-time it was ignored that ult is not performing similarly to other cast-time ult - its utility is fully reliable on its damage and thus not using it every 70+ult means large waste of its potential and you simply cant time it burst i.e. how other comparable ults are used (Incap, Dawnbreaker), while other cast-time ults are 120+ cost ults with high burst capability, and Incap can be Scaled to get strong effect taht redeem damage loss of not using ult by cooldown of 70+ult.
2. Another problem is while adding cast-time it was also ignored that ult is damn bugged for years and can miss targets in its range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BKZYSxC7RA
How many years more i have to link this video?! As result you not jsut have lower burst cpability but also rng chance that it will actually hit target...
One of solutions: With idea of adjusted Nova above Sweep ult visual effcet and mechanic will be too blended. Because Sweep also making glwoing aura around caster with dot. So how about change this "burst" into actuall burst that would be more direct damage rather than dd+dot that messing cp respecification. Old idea of turning Sweep into Divine Leap that became iconic skill of religious npc wariors:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wql81mo8hk
Or change its visual effect for templar Charge so it would look more "holyish". For Toppling it would be - Jump into heaven and fall down, nailing your opponent with aedric spear. It litrally actually fit name "toppling". While explosive Charge would have this aoe visual effect.
Another soultion: is allowing ult to scale to 120+ult and get new effect similarly to how Incap working, so for not spam it by cooldown you wil lactually have benefit.

H. Solar Barrage:
Due to AoE tests I asking again to consider idea of turning Barrage into delayed aoe burst skill similar to Subterranean Assault.
So, when you cast skill - it apply 3sec timer on you and yellow essence floating around you and magnetic bomb on caster as visual cue for enemy to see that you udenr effect of skill. 3 sec later it explode, using same explsion effect of magnetic bomb (take it away from Eclipse, it doesnt make sence there for skill of "darkness"), instead of its current effect that is literally lazy, recolored to yellow, visual effect of Impulse. Ofc auxiliary effect should be equally strong to comparable skills due to it being melee skill, for example "while skill is charging - it heals you every 1sec for X"
Only new addition is change the way how essence during skill charge is acting - instead of spinning around caster, representing aura of energy floating around caster, it should come fom sides into caster body, representing that you storing divine energy to release it in a seconds. So it will act similarly to Sap Essence:

But instead of singular it would be continious 3sec flow.

I. Radiant Aura:
Skill adjustments itself over years were good by itself but in complex analyze it overshadowed by other changes - like Drain and destro staff changes. Destro staff nowdays is not punishemnt for mana build but pure benefit due to it direct boost to dps capability by passives and light/heavy attacks that scale of max stat of mana spec, also Drain provide much more utility with its major debuff and became same nocost skill that also force enemy to waste 2 purge slots. And while Aura aoe debuff can be interesting - in reality manadrain dont stack and thus it doesnt matter on how many targets it applied.
Taking into account problem that templar dont have access to major sorcery and for some mysterious reasons Entropy got nerfhamemred into oblivion, making it as pain point once again I suggest ot readjust Radiant Aura again to fix calss addiction of Entropy but make new RA defensive so if templar would have choice to either use defensive class-based sorcery skill or offensive mage guild one:
Turn it into self-buff with actual 3700 cost that apply major sorcery on you for 20sec along with minor regen buffs. While its auxiliar power is either - A. similarly to how wardens Leeching Vines operate - apply minor manasteal for 10sec on enemies who dealt damage to caster. B. similarly to light attack mechanics - apply minor manasteal on targets whom you dealt damage with light atack. Both options will be equally strong.
There is 4 possible visual effects depends on auxiliar effect:
A. If manadrain attached to light attacks - 1. Templarish effect of glowing yellow hands that was once used for sorc minor mending Ward morph but then was completely removed and reintroduced as efect of major mending for Daedric Trikery set. However such "sunish" effect is belong to warriors of sun!

2. Another templarish effect - it could be taken from primate artorius - making your weapon to glow and emit sun rays:

3. Simplier effect with less particles but noticable is make it similar to Momentum - essence floating around your weapon, but for aura it would be yellow essence similar from solar barrage, with yellow coat on your weapon

B. If manadrain attached to recieveing damage - 3. keep it as now - tiny yellow glow on affected target. Or add transparent halo effect that would look like nimbus. Such effect was used for psijic Mend Spirit but was removed for some reason.

@ZOS_Gilliam

Drdeath20 · September 2020

After playing a magplar for years and then swapping to a magblade i am extremely upset that i spent all those years wasted on a templar that is the hands down most neglected class.

Impale > jesus beam
Spectral bow > purifying light
Incap > radial sweep
Mark target and morphs > radiant aura
Siphon strikes = rune
Swallow soul > sweeps
Twisted path > solar barrage
Everyone has access to orbs which is > shards
And dont even get me started on passives

No channels, all ranged, well thought out buffs, all magicka damage and you get multiple DoTs and buffs that last 20 seconds and 40 seconds so it all fits nicely in with all the other 10 second abilities.

Hotdog_23 · September 2020

Let Rushed Ceremony scale off highest offensive stat the same as Cleansing Ritual.

Koubo · September 2020

@Cinbri : i like how you just state many issue for Templars. Good job

Recap: passive still dont grant its effect that could change tide of combat consistently and only time when it reliably proc is during super hard pressure when you unable to survive and get benefit of passive, where only way to get desirable effect is group play with lot of crosshealing.
So I suggest to either increase strength of effect of passive or improve its reliability.
Making passive to proc on all heals would be overpowered - so i suggest to increase hp threshold to at least 60% which would be enough to make passive strong enough or swap generic buff into major heroism buff keeping same threshold that will synnergize with magplars burst heal as main survivability tool and stamplar possibility to proc it not that often by Ritual.

This change is interresting, but Stamplar use RoR over ER most of the time in PvE condition, which mean it wont proc anyway.
What i'm concerned about is Stamina Templar survivability for both PvE and PvP. It was bad in PvP before RoR changes, it's even worse now. Stamina templar have 0 heal in their class's Kit. That's just a shame... I do swap RoR for ER when i'm in vMA cause i felt the loss of the healing there and because we're alone, we cant rely on team mates. I really hope things will change for us as it's kinda terrible right now. Stamina templar's Kit is too poor in my opinion. They perform good in PvE, so that's not a problem. AoE is a bit weak but enough to play in hard content. My hightest concern is health sustain mostly. We can't rely only on Vigor even if it's easy access now. I wont bother linking all the passives or active of other class.

On the other hand, MagPlar have Magicka sustain issue and rely on Jab&Burning light to be on par Damage wise. If we go Range (which should be easy for a MagDD) they can't parse above 80K in perfect condition (while MagBlade parse above 94K with range abilities). I think MagPlar either need a Class Spammable that mak them able to compet as a Range DD, or something have to be tweak to make the other Spammable more effective in order to make them viable with them and not rely on 100% on Jab for damage. I love both Templars but i can bearly play them in hight end PvEbecause they are mele and/or Stamina and not really desired which make me sad as they are my first & favorite character so far.

Cinbri · September 2020

Koubo wrote: »

@Cinbri : i like how you just state many issue for Templars. Good job

Recap: passive still dont grant its effect that could change tide of combat consistently and only time when it reliably proc is during super hard pressure when you unable to survive and get benefit of passive, where only way to get desirable effect is group play with lot of crosshealing.
So I suggest to either increase strength of effect of passive or improve its reliability.
Making passive to proc on all heals would be overpowered - so i suggest to increase hp threshold to at least 60% which would be enough to make passive strong enough or swap generic buff into major heroism buff keeping same threshold that will synnergize with magplars burst heal as main survivability tool and stamplar possibility to proc it not that often by Ritual.

This change is interresting, but Stamplar use RoR over ER most of the time in PvE condition, which mean it wont proc anyway.
What i'm concerned about is Stamina Templar survivability for both PvE and PvP. It was bad in PvP before RoR changes, it's even worse now. Stamina templar have 0 heal in their class's Kit. That's just a shame... I do swap RoR for ER when i'm in vMA cause i felt the loss of the healing there and because we're alone, we cant rely on team mates. I really hope things will change for us as it's kinda terrible right now. Stamina templar's Kit is too poor in my opinion. They perform good in PvE, so that's not a problem. AoE is a bit weak but enough to play in hard content. My hightest concern is health sustain mostly. We can't rely only on Vigor even if it's easy access now. I wont bother linking all the passives or active of other class.

On the other hand, MagPlar have Magicka sustain issue and rely on Jab&Burning light to be on par Damage wise. If we go Range (which should be easy for a MagDD) they can't parse above 80K in perfect condition (while MagBlade parse above 94K with range abilities). I think MagPlar either need a Class Spammable that mak them able to compet as a Range DD, or something have to be tweak to make the other Spammable more effective in order to make them viable with them and not rely on 100% on Jab for damage. I love both Templars but i can bearly play them in hight end PvEbecause they are mele and/or Stamina and not really desired which make me sad as they are my first & favorite character so far.

Ye, we have to accept that RoR is pve only and Extended is pvp mainly or pve healbots, with little no exceptions.
Regarding stamplar healing problem - Mending passive literally dont work for stam spec, so it like stamplar playing without 2 class passives - mending and master ritualist. Thats obviously brings only negative consequences and one of reasons why Mending should be adjusted to affect all healing done effects similarly to how it worked this way vefore it was overhauled(de facto nerfed) and than gaved away to necro class.

mmtaniac · September 2020

Stamplar healing almost not exist in pvp you must use rally(20sec to get heal its perfect situational heal yeah) and vigor because class heals cost tons and not scale i know i should manage rally perfectly but not always its possible.

I play other classes and most stamina classes have that little heals everywhere(on passive on buffs those little heals make difference) not only on vigor and rally and most of the time pathetic ritual heal that work only sometimes.

Jman100582 · September 2020

stonethorn issues: stamplar pvp

Burst...where it at? I have heard rumors that potl was bugged on patch launch and that the dmg it dealt was being double hit by battle spirit. Either way, the skill is actually terrible now. The highest potl ive seen all patch so far has been 5k on a crit. I know that it was supposedly bugged and all, but dayumn. I wouldn't be too angry at it if stamina templar had another class ability I could substitute for it buuuuuuuuut...I don't. Stamina templar is given literally nothing but a cc and a spammable burst wise for pvp since they "fixed" potl. Please just overhaul the skill at this point.

Passives are still the worse in the game. Skills are still clunky and do not work very efficiently in live gameplay

A side note I wanted to add: This whole ic pvp event I have seen maybe 5 other stamplars. Nobody plays it anymore, not even for group play. Templar has arguably gotten nerfed harder then almost any other class throughout all of ESO's history. The class has nothing unique about it anymore (at least in the sense hat its unique things are viable), almost all the passives are extremely outdated. Skills are still buggy, and over half the class skills dont get used anymore. Utility skills cost absurd amounts of mag. Healing is the worse its ever been for a templar in pvp and they are suppose to be the "healing warrior archetype." In fact, you could argue that templars have probably the worse healing/survivability in the current patch for pvp. Bad mobility, bad healing, bad damage, bad sustain. Theres nothing this class does well anymore, or that makes it stand out in a viable way. Like...why?

Who do you think is going to play this in the current state of the game? Every other class has something better both stam wise and mag wise. Almost every other class has more survivbility, a better more reliable burst combo, better sustain. You name it. Theres a reason I see almost no templar dps characters in cyrodiil, and for sure no templar tanks. Templars can only fulfill one role successfully and that is a pure healer spec. And even then, warden still out performs it. Templars not even equal to another class in the one thing that it can accomplish. It truly is a dying class in pvp

ealdwin · September 2020

Koubo wrote: »

@Cinbri : i like how you just state many issue for Templars. Good job

Recap: passive still dont grant its effect that could change tide of combat consistently and only time when it reliably proc is during super hard pressure when you unable to survive and get benefit of passive, where only way to get desirable effect is group play with lot of crosshealing.
So I suggest to either increase strength of effect of passive or improve its reliability.
Making passive to proc on all heals would be overpowered - so i suggest to increase hp threshold to at least 60% which would be enough to make passive strong enough or swap generic buff into major heroism buff keeping same threshold that will synnergize with magplars burst heal as main survivability tool and stamplar possibility to proc it not that often by Ritual.

This change is interresting, but Stamplar use RoR over ER most of the time in PvE condition, which mean it wont proc anyway.
What i'm concerned about is Stamina Templar survivability for both PvE and PvP. It was bad in PvP before RoR changes, it's even worse now. Stamina templar have 0 heal in their class's Kit. That's just a shame... I do swap RoR for ER when i'm in vMA cause i felt the loss of the healing there and because we're alone, we cant rely on team mates. I really hope things will change for us as it's kinda terrible right now. Stamina templar's Kit is too poor in my opinion. They perform good in PvE, so that's not a problem. AoE is a bit weak but enough to play in hard content. My hightest concern is health sustain mostly. We can't rely only on Vigor even if it's easy access now. I wont bother linking all the passives or active of other class.

On the other hand, MagPlar have Magicka sustain issue and rely on Jab&Burning light to be on par Damage wise. If we go Range (which should be easy for a MagDD) they can't parse above 80K in perfect condition (while MagBlade parse above 94K with range abilities). I think MagPlar either need a Class Spammable that mak them able to compet as a Range DD, or something have to be tweak to make the other Spammable more effective in order to make them viable with them and not rely on 100% on Jab for damage. I love both Templars but i can bearly play them in hight end PvEbecause they are mele and/or Stamina and not really desired which make me sad as they are my first & favorite character so far.

Agreed that Magicka Templar could use a spammable option for ranged dps. I had an idea on how to rework the Dawn's Wrath skill line to help provide this option and was interested to hear people's thoughts.

Solar Flare

Remove the cast time from this ability and the Dark Flare morph (adjust damage as needed)
Dark Flare (morph)
- Remove Major Defile from this morph and add new morph effect (haven't thought of a good one yet)

Sun Fire

Vampire's Bane (Morph)
- Remove the added effect of increased duration
- This morph would now apply Major Defile to affected enemies for the duration (more appropriate for the name of "Vampire's Bane")

Koubo · September 2020

@ealdwin : problem is, you might need BurningLight proc to compet as a MagPlar. And Spear need to be refreshed asap for that and it's not as much as Sweep.

I was looking at the passives the other day, and i have to admit i never really cared about Restauring Light, but they are cleary outdated/trash/useless.

ealdwin · September 2020

Koubo wrote: »

@ealdwin : problem is, you might need BurningLight proc to compet as a MagPlar. And Spear need to be refreshed asap for that and it's not as much as Sweep.

I was looking at the passives the other day, and i have to admit i never really cared about Restauring Light, but they are cleary outdated/trash/useless.

Ah, forgot about Burning Light.

Templar overall seems to suffer from an issue where its effectiveness is too reliant on a small number of skills and passives, with the rest of those skills and abilities being lackluster or outdated. @Cinbri brought up a really good point regarding Prism and Illuminate that highlights this well.

Firstmep · September 2020

ealdwin wrote: »

Koubo wrote: »

@Cinbri : i like how you just state many issue for Templars. Good job

Recap: passive still dont grant its effect that could change tide of combat consistently and only time when it reliably proc is during super hard pressure when you unable to survive and get benefit of passive, where only way to get desirable effect is group play with lot of crosshealing.
So I suggest to either increase strength of effect of passive or improve its reliability.
Making passive to proc on all heals would be overpowered - so i suggest to increase hp threshold to at least 60% which would be enough to make passive strong enough or swap generic buff into major heroism buff keeping same threshold that will synnergize with magplars burst heal as main survivability tool and stamplar possibility to proc it not that often by Ritual.

This change is interresting, but Stamplar use RoR over ER most of the time in PvE condition, which mean it wont proc anyway.
What i'm concerned about is Stamina Templar survivability for both PvE and PvP. It was bad in PvP before RoR changes, it's even worse now. Stamina templar have 0 heal in their class's Kit. That's just a shame... I do swap RoR for ER when i'm in vMA cause i felt the loss of the healing there and because we're alone, we cant rely on team mates. I really hope things will change for us as it's kinda terrible right now. Stamina templar's Kit is too poor in my opinion. They perform good in PvE, so that's not a problem. AoE is a bit weak but enough to play in hard content. My hightest concern is health sustain mostly. We can't rely only on Vigor even if it's easy access now. I wont bother linking all the passives or active of other class.

On the other hand, MagPlar have Magicka sustain issue and rely on Jab&Burning light to be on par Damage wise. If we go Range (which should be easy for a MagDD) they can't parse above 80K in perfect condition (while MagBlade parse above 94K with range abilities). I think MagPlar either need a Class Spammable that mak them able to compet as a Range DD, or something have to be tweak to make the other Spammable more effective in order to make them viable with them and not rely on 100% on Jab for damage. I love both Templars but i can bearly play them in hight end PvEbecause they are mele and/or Stamina and not really desired which make me sad as they are my first & favorite character so far.

Agreed that Magicka Templar could use a spammable option for ranged dps. I had an idea on how to rework the Dawn's Wrath skill line to help provide this option and was interested to hear people's thoughts.

Solar Flare
Remove the cast time from this ability and the Dark Flare morph (adjust damage as needed)

Dark Flare (morph)

Remove Major Defile from this morph and add new morph effect (haven't thought of a good one yet)

Sun Fire
Vampire's Bane (Morph)

Remove the added effect of increased duration

This morph would now apply Major Defile to affected enemies for the duration (more appropriate for the name of "Vampire's Bane")

I'd rather not have them remove the defile from dark flare.
IMHO they could add a mechanic where each dawns wrath ability cast reduces the cast time of solar flare.
Then make solar barrage provide empower, and dark flare defile.
You would have both pve and pvp options.

Cinbri · September 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

ealdwin wrote: »

Koubo wrote: »

@Cinbri : i like how you just state many issue for Templars. Good job

Recap: passive still dont grant its effect that could change tide of combat consistently and only time when it reliably proc is during super hard pressure when you unable to survive and get benefit of passive, where only way to get desirable effect is group play with lot of crosshealing.
So I suggest to either increase strength of effect of passive or improve its reliability.
Making passive to proc on all heals would be overpowered - so i suggest to increase hp threshold to at least 60% which would be enough to make passive strong enough or swap generic buff into major heroism buff keeping same threshold that will synnergize with magplars burst heal as main survivability tool and stamplar possibility to proc it not that often by Ritual.

This change is interresting, but Stamplar use RoR over ER most of the time in PvE condition, which mean it wont proc anyway.
What i'm concerned about is Stamina Templar survivability for both PvE and PvP. It was bad in PvP before RoR changes, it's even worse now. Stamina templar have 0 heal in their class's Kit. That's just a shame... I do swap RoR for ER when i'm in vMA cause i felt the loss of the healing there and because we're alone, we cant rely on team mates. I really hope things will change for us as it's kinda terrible right now. Stamina templar's Kit is too poor in my opinion. They perform good in PvE, so that's not a problem. AoE is a bit weak but enough to play in hard content. My hightest concern is health sustain mostly. We can't rely only on Vigor even if it's easy access now. I wont bother linking all the passives or active of other class.

On the other hand, MagPlar have Magicka sustain issue and rely on Jab&Burning light to be on par Damage wise. If we go Range (which should be easy for a MagDD) they can't parse above 80K in perfect condition (while MagBlade parse above 94K with range abilities). I think MagPlar either need a Class Spammable that mak them able to compet as a Range DD, or something have to be tweak to make the other Spammable more effective in order to make them viable with them and not rely on 100% on Jab for damage. I love both Templars but i can bearly play them in hight end PvEbecause they are mele and/or Stamina and not really desired which make me sad as they are my first & favorite character so far.

Agreed that Magicka Templar could use a spammable option for ranged dps. I had an idea on how to rework the Dawn's Wrath skill line to help provide this option and was interested to hear people's thoughts.

Solar Flare
Remove the cast time from this ability and the Dark Flare morph (adjust damage as needed)

Dark Flare (morph)

Remove Major Defile from this morph and add new morph effect (haven't thought of a good one yet)

Sun Fire
Vampire's Bane (Morph)

Remove the added effect of increased duration

This morph would now apply Major Defile to affected enemies for the duration (more appropriate for the name of "Vampire's Bane")

I'd rather not have them remove the defile from dark flare.
IMHO they could add a mechanic where each dawns wrath ability cast reduces the cast time of solar flare.
Then make solar barrage provide empower, and dark flare defile.
You would have both pve and pvp options.

Or remove major defile from Dark Flare and grant it perma-Empowered with instacast to turn into class range spammable while turn Solar Barage into delayed burst skill and make so it apply major defile to hitted targets to make it okish in pve and must have in pvp

P.S.: thing is tempalr Solar Flare and sorc Crystal Shard are exactly identical skills but while Shard morph into super usefull Crystal Frags with instant cast proc our Flare morphed into Dark Flare which is literally analogue of Crystal Blast, i.e. skill that zos FINALLY considered garbage and turned into spammable Crystal Weapon. Yet for templar even despite similarity of skills such treatments wasnt made so we left off board, making Dark Flare yet another skills taht has to be updated to actually work...

Koubo · September 2020

And all of this only concern one role out of the 4 we can have. There is so much to do

EtTuBrutus · September 2020

Templars aren't fun anymore, I've mained 1 for 4 years.

It's unbelievable how EFFECTIVE every other class is in comparison. Not 1 of our skills is top tier.

Lining up burst is stupidly more involved with far more counterplay. Block, movement, dodge, los, bash, e.t.c. it's all more impactful vs templar than other classes bc all templar skills have some caveat that makes them sub par.

Sure, some are incredible vs potatoes. EVERYTHING is incredible vs potatoes though.

VaxtinTheWolf · September 2020

I've been thinking about Honor The Dead. If they refuse to scale it with Max Health, what if it scaled with 'highest offensive stat' like Ritual but allow it to remain as a utility magicka skill. I'm suggest this from the perspective of a 'Stamina Tank'.

I also still believe that "Balanced Warrior" should provide something like 5% Weapon/Spell Damage and 1320 Spell/Physical Resistance or otherwise just change that bonus to grant a straight 2640 Armor instead. Maybe a personal tick but Imbalanced resistances just really bother me for some reason.

ealdwin · September 2020

Cinbri wrote: »

I. Radiant Aura:
Skill adjustments itself over years were good by itself but in complex analyze it overshadowed by other changes - like Drain and destro staff changes. Destro staff nowdays is not punishemnt for mana build but pure benefit due to it direct boost to dps capability by passives and light/heavy attacks that scale of max stat of mana spec, also Drain provide much more utility with its major debuff and became same nocost skill that also force enemy to waste 2 purge slots. And while Aura aoe debuff can be interesting - in reality manadrain dont stack and thus it doesnt matter on how many targets it applied.
Taking into account problem that templar dont have access to major sorcery and for some mysterious reasons Entropy got nerfhamemred into oblivion, making it as pain point once again I suggest ot readjust Radiant Aura again to fix calss addiction of Entropy but make new RA defensive so if templar would have choice to either use defensive class-based sorcery skill or offensive mage guild one:
Turn it into self-buff with actual 3700 cost that apply major sorcery on you for 20sec along with minor regen buffs. While its auxiliar power is either - A. similarly to how wardens Leeching Vines operate - apply minor manasteal for 10sec on enemies who dealt damage to caster. B. similarly to light attack mechanics - apply minor manasteal on targets whom you dealt damage with light atack. Both options will be equally strong.
There is 4 possible visual effects depends on auxiliar effect:
A. If manadrain attached to light attacks - 1. Templarish effect of glowing yellow hands that was once used for sorc minor mending Ward morph but then was completely removed and reintroduced as efect of major mending for Daedric Trikery set. However such "sunish" effect is belong to warriors of sun!

2. Another templarish effect - it could be taken from primate artorius - making your weapon to glow and emit sun rays:

3. Simplier effect with less particles but noticable is make it similar to Momentum - essence floating around your weapon, but for aura it would be yellow essence similar from solar barrage, with yellow coat on your weapon

B. If manadrain attached to recieveing damage - 3. keep it as now - tiny yellow glow on affected target. Or add transparent halo effect that would look like nimbus. Such effect was used for psijic Mend Spirit but was removed for some reason.

@ZOS_Gilliam

After taking a look at the patch notes and the proposed changes to the Major/Minor Buffs and Debuffs, I feel it's worth taking a look at Radiant Aura, and agree with Cinbri's previous suggestions. For reference, here are the changes in particular that affect this skills vs. Elemental Drain.

Major Breach:
Increased to 5948, up from 5280.
Major Breach now affects both Physical and Spell Resistance equally.

Minor Magickasteal: Decreased to 168 per hit, down from 300.

Minor Fortitude/Endurance/Intellect: Increased to 20%, up from 10%

Both skills suffer from the Minor Magickasteal nerf, but see buffs in regards to their other effects. The difference is that Elemental Drain sees a buff to the utility it can provide for a group whereas Radiant Aura sees a personal buff to recovery. Not that the passive recovery it will provide won't be nice (20% Off-Resource Recovery will be nice for PVP), but that it doesn't have much other purpose for slotting it. Then consider the new Arena Destruction Staff

Wrath of Elements (Weakness to Elements)
2 – Adds 1190 Spell Penetration (Perfected Only)
2 – Casting Weakness to Elements on a target within 15 meters of you causes a surge of elemental energy to tether between you for 10 seconds. While the tether persists and you remain in range, enemies touching the tether take 2140 Flame, Shock, or Frost Damage every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

The way I see it, is that with these changes, there would be little to no reason to use Radiant Aura as a source of Minor Magickasteal as it currently works, when there is more benefit and utility to be gained from using Elemental Drain. Don't get me wrong, the minor recovery buffs passively provided are great. It's just that the rest of the skill doesn't do quite nearly enough to make it worth slotting over other abilities.

Juleris · September 2020

So as I was reading over the Markarth PTS Patch Notes, I noticed that since Major and Minor Fracture is now removed from the game, its effect is now merged into one debuff called Major and Minor Breach. Because of this, Pierce Armor, a core tanking skill, has had its bonus effect reworked to apply Minor Breach now in addition to Major Breach. This totally kills Templar tanks, since it means any tank class can apply the armor debuff from Power of the Light through Pierce Armor, which was basically the only reason to play a Templar tank. It was the one skill that gave reason to Templar tanking, since it was a pretty difficult debuff to come by (you had to use poisons if you wanted to apply Minor Breach on other classes, and that would mean foregoing your weapon enchant). There is literally no reason to play a Templar tank now, other than masochistic reasons.

>No unique buffs or debuffs to provide to a raid
>No health-based self-heal
>No AoE immobilize/fear/stun
>Poor stamina sustain while blocking (Restoring Focus restores a measly 240 stamina per second, its alright but not enough)
>Passives are extremely outdated and barely lend to a tanking playstyle

I wait for the day ZoS wakes up and realizes Healing Ritual is a dead skill and reworks it into the health-based self-heal it should be, Spear Shards immobilizes targets in the AoE and Templar provides some kind of buff/debuff to a raid that makes them sought after in support roles like tank and healer. Sorcerer recently got Crystal Weapon which applies a unique 1000 armor debuff, pushing Sorcerer tanks as a viable choice for endgame raid compositions. I really want to play a Templar tank, its my favorite class thematically and was the first character I rolled, but its just so bad!

stefj68 · September 2020

stamplar lack of sustains, self healing health %, and better passives.

ealdwin · October 2020

Sun Shield and its morphs could definitely use some work. Ideally, one of the morphs would scale off of Max Magicka and provide Magicka Templars with a class shield ability. Personally, I'd like to see this done to the Radiant Ward morph, giving Magplars a better tool for surviving in outnumbered situations. Another thought regarding the Blazing Shield morph, would be to rework it into Blinding Shield, and have it stun enemies on cast, with each enemy increasing the length of the stun. This morph would still scale off of Max Health, and would give Templar Tanks a hard CC option within the class kit.

Healing Ritual also could use further reworking to make it more useful. I'd suggest that the skill be given a Stamina Morph option, seeing as neither morph is used that often—Hasty Prayer, for instance. Consider the Fungal Growth skill in the Warden toolkit, which acts similarly as a PBAoE heal that has both a Magicka and a Stamina morph.

OOJIMMY · October 2020

I'd prefer if biting jabs did something besides give major savagery. All other Classes signature move actually do something unique if iirc.

YandereGirlfriend · October 2020

OOJIMMY wrote: »

I'd prefer if biting jabs did something besides give major savagery. All other Classes signature move actually do something unique if iirc.

Necromancer skulls don't do anything special either.

Husan · October 2020

ealdwin wrote: »

Sun Shield and its morphs could definitely use some work. Ideally, one of the morphs would scale off of Max Magicka and provide Magicka Templars with a class shield ability. Personally, I'd like to see this done to the Radiant Ward morph, giving Magplars a better tool for surviving in outnumbered situations. Another thought regarding the Blazing Shield morph, would be to rework it into Blinding Shield, and have it stun enemies on cast, with each enemy increasing the length of the stun. This morph would still scale off of Max Health, and would give Templar Tanks a hard CC option within the class kit.

Scaling off of max resource isn't a bad idea.. max magicka might be a bit too strong for magicka templars, and there are already two other shields that do the same (conjured ward, annulment). However, a morph of the skill scaling out of max stamina, capped at 50% of hp would be a amazing! Stamina templar needs some love, and it fits in the theme of a "holy knight" quite well. It's also in line with the idea that templars are a class that stands their ground, Eric Wrobel words from years ago could finally become true :,D.

Fennwitty · October 2020

My top two concerns with Templar are:

1. It's hard to make a tank Templar with any crowd control. When a guildmember asked for advice on how to build a tank Templar I was really hard-pressed to find options. ESO could use more tanks in general. "Paladin" has always been a popular idea, especially with new players coming from other games.

2. Too few Stamina class options. It's tough to make a Stamplar without relying on Biting Jabs. Jabs was too strong for sure, but so many other class skills now are prohibitively high-cost Magicka only regardless of morph.

OOJIMMY · October 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

OOJIMMY wrote: »

I'd prefer if biting jabs did something besides give major savagery. All other Classes signature move actually do something unique if iirc.

Necromancer skulls don't do anything special either.

I thought every third cast does increased damage.