[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Altyrann

Posting on this as well as other threads on the inconsistent functionality between Sweeps and things requiring direct damage to proc. Can we either go back to it being treated as a DoT or have it treated as direct damage across the board? Either option is better than a buggy halfway position.

Glory

Altyrann wrote: »

Posting on this as well as other threads on the inconsistent functionality between Sweeps and things requiring direct damage to proc. Can we either go back to it being treated as a DoT or have it treated as direct damage across the board? Either option is better than a buggy halfway position.

I agree that having consistency across the board is important.

I and other reps have noticed this as well.

phoenixkungfu

I love the forum. Templar main issue for me is there is way to many muti function moves off of 1 action. Cleanse ritual. Snare, remove effects and heal or attack. The templar has way to many moves like this. Also clease ritual is absolutely abuse by most templar as a defense mechanic.

phoenixkungfu

I really would like some kind of cost increase for cleanse ritual for dot remove. Or a sorcerer treatment of cost increase as you reuse the ability in a time Frame. Like streak

Sanguinor2

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I love the forum. Templar main issue for me is there is way to many muti function moves off of 1 action. Cleanse ritual. Snare, remove effects and heal or attack. The templar has way to many moves like this. Also clease ritual is absolutely abuse by most templar as a defense mechanic.

So templar using its defensive ability defensively is abusing it as a defense mechanic? Interesting perspective.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I really would like some kind of cost increase for cleanse ritual for dot remove. Or a sorcerer treatment of cost increase as you reuse the ability in a time Frame. Like streak

It already is one of the most expensive ability in this game. Im fine with it acting like streak if it also gives the same teleport as streak does tho

phoenixkungfu

Please please eso remove the ability for templar to remove a player direct damage done with a lightning or resto heavy attack with cleanse ritual. Yes cleanse ritual, end a heavy attack, why does provide so much utility.

phoenixkungfu

Also it is my belief that cleanse ritual or purge should only remove effects that damage the player. This would allow counter play to these abilities. So moves like element drain, curse and prox det would be great counter play

technohic

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Also it is my belief that cleanse ritual or purge should only remove effects that damage the player. This would allow counter play to these abilities. So moves like element drain, curse and prox det would be great counter play

Proxy det goes off when cleansed. And who is expecting to get somewhere with heavy lightning attacks?

Is that your guild in your username as well?

Jabbs_Giggity

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I love the forum. Templar main issue for me is there is way to many muti function moves off of 1 action. Cleanse ritual. Snare, remove effects and heal or attack. The templar has way to many moves like this. Also clease ritual is absolutely abuse by most templar as a defense mechanic.

Who are you? Also, why go into a Templar feedback thread to Nerfbash?

To your point, Cleansing Ritual Does not have a Snare!!!!! *Learn the Class* The Snare comes from the Passive Sacred Ground.
Also, Cleansing Ritual IS the most expensive Defensive Class Skill in the game!

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Please please eso remove the ability for templar to remove a player direct damage done with a lightning or resto heavy attack with cleanse ritual. Yes cleanse ritual, end a heavy attack, why does provide so much utility.

Really unsure of what you're ranting about...How does cleansing Ritual end a HA? If you're referring to Lightning Staff channel HA, then why shouldn't it? **Ehm **Ehm...The uh Alliance War skill Purge also does this....Derpity

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Also it is my belief that cleanse ritual or purge should only remove effects that damage the player. This would allow counter play to these abilities. So moves like element drain, curse and prox det would be great counter play

It's not like we get to choose which abilities to cleanse. By the way, I use Ritual of Retribution (this Morph only cleanses two, TWO, effects. In addition, when you have 8+ Negative effects at a 4.8K cost to cast, that's 4 casts to cleanse all 8 effects at ...you guessed it...19.2K MAGICKA! Compared to your ZERO cost to cast Elemental Drain...

Please...L2P

akdave0

Most of the things being asked for in this thread are pvp related and greatly affects the pve players. As a healer magplar, removal, nerfing, increasingly diminishes the quality of life for my character. I used to play a magsorc, but because of pvp crybabies, that character has been reduced to a crafter. Don’t have this happen again. Buff the other classes to combat the Templar in pvp or separate the two platforms within the game via expansion dlc, or remove the skills from pvp that are being cried about.

phoenixkungfu

Well I strongly disagree. Unfortunately cleanse ritual does remove heavy attack of lightning or resto staff. It's counts a removable effect. I dont agree with this because its a player direct damage before it's a dot or effects. As stated before. As a 245 day play pet sorcerer. I know this to be a fact. Back on topic of cleanse ritual somehow the cost is not high enough with magic steal and rune that returns magic. During most fights with templar cleanse ritual is the number 1 skill use in pvp vs a templar. This is also a fact. I have seen this skill use 10 times in two minutes before. The skill is amazing and maybe even the best defense tool in the game pound for pound. I believe the counter play is pretty much non existent in the game Unfortunately. So I would love to see move the simply can't be purge or cleanse. To me and my point of view harmful effects can mean damage done to a health bar. So move like curse that has damage or effects that does damage the health bar would be great counter play. Maybe even major defile. It would be great balance to have a counter to cleanse ritual in pvp.

Sanguinor2

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Well I strongly disagree. Unfortunately cleanse ritual does remove heavy attack of lightning or resto staff. It's counts a removable effect. I dont agree with this because its a player direct damage before it's a dot or effects. As stated before. As a 245 day play pet sorcerer. I know this to be a fact. Back on topic of cleanse ritual somehow the cost is not high enough with magic steal and rune that returns magic. During most fights with templar cleanse ritual is the number 1 skill use in pvp vs a templar. This is also a fact. I have seen this skill use 10 times in two minutes before. The skill is amazing and maybe even the best defense tool in the game pound for pound. I believe the counter play is pretty much non existent in the game Unfortunately. So I would love to see move the simply can't be purge or cleanse. To me and my point of view harmful effects can mean damage done to a health bar. So move like curse that has damage or effects that does damage the health bar would be great counter play. Maybe even major defile. It would be great balance to have a counter to cleanse ritual in pvp.

There already is a whole lot that does not get removed by cleanse, About every direct Damage for example, or AoE dot, or PbAoE.
Again the cost is among the most expensive abilities in the game. 10 times cleanse in 2 minutes is one cleanse every 12 seconds aka you get 6 mag recovery ticks while you are not casting cleanse and if you use them 12 ticks of minor magicka steal and 12 ticks of rune magicka restore. The cost with 5 light armor pieces is around 4.5k, efficient purge which is widely regarded as very expensive is at 4.8k, now you can say that it only purges 2 effects but it does so for every Group member per cast instead of once every 20 seconds through a Synergy.
In many situations cloak, streak or shade are better defense Tools since they offer the Chance of disengaging and not getting continously hit by a Barrage of ranged attacks from a large Group.

phoenixkungfu

I disagree, every defense skill in the game has a counter play mechanic. All but cleanse ritual or purge. Here's why. Defense is listed as resistance, damage shield, healing, streak, cloak, mitigation and cleanse ritual or purge. Each one one has a counter play to it.
Resistance counter penetrate
Steak counter cost increase
Damage shield counter cp tree and sets
Healing counter defile
Cloak counter reveal
Mitigation counter conditions limited
Cleanse ritual counter? Nothing
I'm not a dev but there should be a creative counterpart to cleanse ritual. As the defense it provides is far to strong without counter play. In my opinion

Sanguinor2

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I disagree, every defense skill in the game has a counter play mechanic. All but cleanse ritual or purge. Here's why. Defense is listed as resistance, damage shield, healing, streak, cloak, mitigation and cleanse ritual or purge. Each one one has a counter play to it.
Resistance counter penetrate
Steak counter cost increase
Damage shield counter cp tree and sets
Healing counter defile
Cloak counter reveal
Mitigation counter conditions limited
Cleanse ritual counter? Nothing Direct Damage, PbAoE, Ground AoE
I'm not a dev but there should be a creative counterpart to cleanse ritual. As the defense it provides is far to strong without counter play. In my opinion

Fixed it for you. Cleanse ritual does literally Nothing I repeat NOTHING against any instant cast direct Damage attack, Player Bound AoE or Ground AoE.

BNOC

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Well I strongly disagree. Unfortunately cleanse ritual does remove heavy attack of lightning or resto staff. It's counts a removable effect. I dont agree with this because its a player direct damage before it's a dot or effects.

Ok so let's say they further nerfed ritual so that we couldn't cleanse your magicka restore channels - I will just block the last tick instead so you don't get your channel, actually, it's already way cheaper to do that and I do already. You want to remove blocks ability to kill a channel too? It's a channel, i.e. damage over time - It's not hard to work out.

Dumb suggestion.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

As a 245 day play pet sorcerer. I know this to be a fact. Back on topic of cleanse ritual somehow the cost is not high enough with magic steal and rune that returns magic. During most fights with templar cleanse ritual is the number 1 skill use in pvp vs a templar. This is also a fact. I have seen this skill use 10 times in two minutes before. The skill is amazing and maybe even the best defense tool in the game pound for pound.

You're a pet sorc, pet's mititgate 100% of damage done to you if you kite them, damages and heals you on click, why is cleanse so powerful by comparison? Because we're cleansing dots that don't even hit you? Do you know the history of cleanse? It's been nerfed 49 times.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I believe the counter play is pretty much non existent in the game Unfortunately. So I would love to see move the simply can't be purge or cleanse. To me and my point of view harmful effects can mean damage done to a health bar. So move like curse that has damage or effects that does damage the health bar would be great counter play. Maybe even major defile. It would be great balance to have a counter to cleanse ritual in pvp.

Yes it would be great balance to kill cleanse of any use and allow things like major defile to just sit on every class in game /sarcasm.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

I disagree, every defense skill in the game has a counter play mechanic. All but cleanse ritual or purge. Here's why. Defense is listed as resistance, damage shield, healing, streak, cloak, mitigation and cleanse ritual or purge. Each one one has a counter play to it.
Resistance counter penetrate
Steak counter cost increase
Damage shield counter cp tree and sets
Healing counter defile
Cloak counter reveal
Mitigation counter conditions limited
Cleanse ritual counter? Nothing
I'm not a dev but there should be a creative counterpart to cleanse ritual. As the defense it provides is far to strong without counter play. In my opinion

You feeling alright mate?

Streak counter is a cost increase? How's that a counter? You mean something like a gap closer, right?
Damage shields counter is CP and sets? So, gimp yourself against most to deal with the shields of a few? Then the counter to ritual is direct damage or aoe CP, sets and skills.
Cloak has counters but I mean cmon, who really uses reveals because of how bad they are.

Run New Moon and spinners or something and just barrage through squishy templars with your direct damage or aoe CP and abilities, use on of your unblockable ccs to line up burst, LOS them with your pet that grants 100% mitigation and heals you.





Just read your other comments and seen that you're playing a heavy attack build with lightning and overload heavies lol. I wish I'd checked that before I bothered replying.

phoenixkungfu

Once again I dont agree. I broke down my point of veiw as to why. As far as the new pets as defense.
Pets as defense counter pets can be killed
Once again in my opinion
Cleanse ritual or purge has 0 counter play.
In terms of aoe or direct damage. I really dont follow the logic of how this is even in the conversation. Pretty sure by your logic, all defense counter are aoe or direct damage. Unfortunately this is not a counter. So to break down what clease ritual does. It remove negative effect. A counter to it would be a cost increase of use in a time frame or negative effect that damage your health bar can only be removed. Aoe damage or direct damage dosen't fit this topic at all. I'm sorry but I dont follow your logic.and Unfortunately in my eye have shown why cleanse ritual or purge have no counter play.

Nirnroot420

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Once again I dont agree. I broke down my point of veiw as to why. As far as the new pets as defense.
Pets as defense counter pets can be killed
Once again in my opinion
Cleanse ritual or purge has 0 counter play.
In terms of aoe or direct damage. I really dont follow the logic of how this is even in the conversation. Pretty sure by your logic, all defense counter are aoe or direct damage. Unfortunately this is not a counter. So to break down what clease ritual does. It remove negative effect. A counter to it would be a cost increase of use in a time frame or negative effect that damage your health bar can only be removed. Aoe damage or direct damage dosen't fit this topic at all. I'm sorry but I dont follow your logic.and Unfortunately in my eye have shown why cleanse ritual or purge have no counter play.

I don't think anyone here follows your logic. You're using lightning heavy attacks as one of your primary sources of damage in pvp. Nobody in their right mind does this, and since lighting heavy attacks are channeled, they can be purged. But like was mentioned above, one can easily just block the last tick of your heavy attack, creating the same scenario for you as cleanse does.

Your situation is playing an absolutely niche build that's ineffective against most players. Players' cleanses (and Purge would cause you the same problem Ritual does) aren't the problem, it's your playstyle.

ZoS isn't going to remove cleanses because you, and only you, rely on channeled heavy attacks in PvP.

Jabbs_Giggity

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Well I strongly disagree. Unfortunately cleanse ritual does remove heavy attack of lightning or resto staff. It's counts a removable effect. I dont agree with this because its a player direct damage before it's a dot or effects. As stated before. As a 245 day play pet sorcerer. I know this to be a fact. Back on topic of cleanse ritual somehow the cost is not high enough with magic steal and rune that returns magic. During most fights with templar cleanse ritual is the number 1 skill use in pvp vs a templar. This is also a fact. I have seen this skill use 10 times in two minutes before. The skill is amazing and maybe even the best defense tool in the game pound for pound. I believe the counter play is pretty much non existent in the game Unfortunately. So I would love to see move the simply can't be purge or cleanse. To me and my point of view harmful effects can mean damage done to a health bar. So move like curse that has damage or effects that does damage the health bar would be great counter play. Maybe even major defile. It would be great balance to have a counter to cleanse ritual in pvp.

Two words. Negate Magic. BOOM. Found your counter play...

Or, if that's not good enough for you...you can always CC spam until the Templar is out of Stamina with Rune Cage from 28+ meters...

I'm sorry, but you're just hurting yourself more at this game by not learning to outplay other classes. All classes have counter play. Unfortunately, you are too ignorant to use LOS and Kiting to your advantage being the most successful of all classes at both.

phoenixkungfu

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar.

I'm sorry to create this post in the wrong place. It was a misunderstanding on my part. I will create a place for this discussion at a later date.

Pauls

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Templar.

I'm sorry to create this post in the wrong place. It was a misunderstanding on my part. I will create a place for this discussion at a later date.

Wasnt this thread about templar mains defending templar OPness to stay at top? Saying how cleanse ritual is one of most expensive skill that cost 4860 mag while non-class purge which dont place healing (and optionally damaging) aoe, dont offer allies synergy and also cost 7830 mag?

Sanguinor2

Pauls wrote: »

Wasnt this thread about templar mains defending templar OPness to stay at top? Saying how cleanse ritual is one of most expensive skill that cost 4860 mag while non-class purge which dont place healing (and optionally damaging) aoe, dont offer allies synergy and also cost 7830 mag?

4860 mag being among the most expensive skills is a fact, a majority of skills cost less therefore it is among the most expensive. And the cheaper Morph of Non class purge Costs 500 more mag and Always removes not only debuffs on you but on anyone else in your Group without a 20 second cooldown *shrug*.

Pauls

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Pauls wrote: »

Wasnt this thread about templar mains defending templar OPness to stay at top? Saying how cleanse ritual is one of most expensive skill that cost 4860 mag while non-class purge which dont place healing (and optionally damaging) aoe, dont offer allies synergy and also cost 7830 mag?

4860 mag being among the most expensive skills is a fact, a majority of skills cost less therefore it is among the most expensive. And the cheaper Morph of Non class purge Costs 500 more mag and Always removes not only debuffs on you but on anyone else in your Group without a 20 second cooldown *shrug*.

How many of these skills have purge, ground aoe healing and optional damage without losing heal, and synergy at same time?

Sanguinor2

Pauls wrote: »

How many of these skills have purge, ground aoe healing and optional damage without losing heal, and synergy at same time?

How is that relevant towards the fact Statement that a 4860 mag cost cleansing ritual is among the most expensive mag abilities in the game again?

Pauls

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Pauls wrote: »

How many of these skills have purge, ground aoe healing and optional damage without losing heal, and synergy at same time?

How is that relevant towards the fact Statement that a 4860 mag cost cleansing ritual is among the most expensive mag abilities in the game again?

This cost justified by high effectiveness, no doubts here.

Sanguinor2

Pauls wrote: »

This cost justified by high effectiveness, no doubts here.

And no one argued otherwise? Still doesnt Change the fact that it is among the most expensive abilities, but, correct me if Im wrong, no one did complain About that.

Pauls

Cleansing ritual is among the most effective mag abilities that makes it OP. Needs adjusted effectivenes or increased cost to make it perfectly balanced.

BNOC

Pauls wrote: »

Cleansing ritual is among the most effective mag abilities that makes it OP. Needs adjusted effectivenes or increased cost to make it perfectly balanced.

This must have been over performing for the last 5 years

Can you link us to the posts you made about this pre the recent dot meta? You're obviously not just bandwagoning on the nerf train for an ability that has only seen nerfs progressively over time.

Also, give us a clip or 2 of you on your Templar please.

Unparagoned1994

Top 2 points : ¹magick templar used to be one of three highest dps ²they are now the lowest :,( wwwwhhhhyyyyy lol well was a fun class now another dead one.... as far as pve goes for pvp job well done other than I think the magick javelin should increase to 28m as it ranks up

Unparagoned1994

I disagree with the javelin comment use the gap closer if u want a stun? Leave the javelin alone for us who want to play ranged magplars Haha but seriously there is the focused charge stun? Use it?

Gnortranermara

Things I'd like to see in the upcoming Templar class rework:

Templar’s "power fantasy" is a little… off.

First, we're missing the "elemental" damage focus present in most other classes. Templar really should have some sort of "holy fire" functionality on abilities like Blazing Spear, Blazing Shield, Solar Flare and morphs, Nova and morphs, and Burning Light. A new Sun Damage type would be a pretty sweet new addition to the game, but probably too much to ask. A simpler solution would be to change them all to Flame damage, which would open up more Burning status effects and potential BSW uptime for Templars. Another interesting way to enhance the "power fantasy" would be changing the Burning Light passive itself to something like "Your Burning status effects deals an additional n Magic Damage per tick." This would make the Burning Light passive more global and relevant to more than just a handful of Aedric Spear abilities. (Thematically, the passive would then make more sense in the Dawn’s Wrath tree, an easy swap with Restoring Spirit.)

Next, our PvP "house" isn't really as threatening as it should be. Since the devs like "kiss-curse" choices so much, they should like this idea: make Radiant execute damage scale based on distance instead of target health. For example: any target below 30% takes 100%-400% extra damage, on a sliding scale from 28m to 4m. In PvP, this would reinforce the Templar house concept and give opponents a new counter. It would cut down on those deadly laser beams from keep tops and from the far-away center of zergs. We should be much more deadly up close, and much less deadly from range. In PvE, this would cement Templar's Magicka melee niche and eliminate squishy healers nuking bosses from a safe range. Finally, it would remove the fuzzy ambiguity about the exact right % to start executing.

Spear Shards is a class-defining skill that is now completely overshadowed by a generic guild skill, Mystic Orbs. Shards needs the same multi-proc functionality to keep up with Orbs, so we can use our own class skill instead of the generic alternative made for other classes. There's no "power fantasy" at all for a skill too subpar to even warrant a bar slot.

Finally, our class execute should be more flexible with our staff choices. The Radiant Oppression morph currently has an absurdly weak and useless bonus based on remaining Max Magicka. Instead, let Radiant Oppression benefit from the Lightning staff AOE bonus and deal 50% AOE splash damage 4m around the main target. The small radius would keep the damage bonus balanced; the real attraction here is opening up a more optimized morph option for Lightning staff users.

Although there's a ton more improvement I'd like to see, those are all of the class issues that I think are relevant to the dev’s stated “power fantasy” goals.

Vampirism

Aside from class skills, there is a broader "power fantasy" issue related to Vampirism, mostly for Templars but affecting other classes, too. Vampirism benefits Templar way too much for something that directly contradicts Templar's holy "power fantasy". Mist Form in particular is nearly universal on Templar PvP builds because it offers superior mobility and damage mitigation compared to anything else in the game. I don't think nerfing Vampire is the solution, and neither is buffing Templar. The best solution here is to offer a viable Mist Form alternative on some other universal skill accessible to any class that wants to avoid Vampirism. Accelerate might be the best, easiest target for a rework to make it a truly effective replacement for Mist Form. Channeled Acceleration could mimic the full-speed-while-channeling function of Mist Form (granting Major Protection from the Deliberate passive throughout the channel), and RAT could give a sneak speed bonus while slotted. This would give non-vamps some options to close the defensive and mobility gaps caused by Vampirism.

Finally, the vamp recovery bonus should require a vamp skill slotted. A free bonus with no significant trade-off is not balanced.