[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

bardx86

Daus wrote: »

Rune cage needs to be dodgeable and blockable. Keep the one that's applied on self as undodgeable/unblockable.

Mages wrath needs to be changed entirely. Buff the damage to make stronger in pve, but get rid of the 4 second timer. This ult makes magSorcs broken OP in battlegrounds.

both terrible ideas

Azramel

I would like to see a viable physical damage ultimate. Even tho the class offers no physical damage skills except Hurricane and Unstable Clannfear(which scales off magicka) it would still be nice to have a physical damage ultimate. Maybe make a Storm Atronach morph an Air Atronach.

Priyasekarssk

Thogard wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Rune cage needs to be dodgeable and blockable. Keep the one that's applied on self as undodgeable/unblockable.

Mages wrath needs to be changed entirely. Buff the damage to make stronger in pve, but get rid of the 4 second timer. This ult makes magSorcs broken OP in battlegrounds.

Lol. Hilarious NB feedback in a Sorc thread.

How about we delete cloak from the game as well?

WHY NOT BOTH?

Here comes the DK main. How about nerfing flame lash ?

Priyasekarssk

ak_pvp wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Rune cage needs to be dodgeable and blockable. Keep the one that's applied on self as undodgeable/unblockable.

Mages wrath needs to be changed entirely. Buff the damage to make stronger in pve, but get rid of the 4 second timer. This ult makes magSorcs broken OP in battlegrounds.

Lol. Hilarious NB feedback in a Sorc thread.

How about we delete cloak from the game as well?

Whilst I disagree with the wrath comment, cage shouldn't exist and I have said this from the start. A class with that level of delayed burst shouldn't have a guaranteed hit. DKs and NBs, whilst having high potential burst, don't have 4 easily well timed hard hitting burst abilities from range.

The problem of sorcs burst hitting was a thing since the removal of frags, hence the use of clench, but that doesn't mean they should add something that makes it guaranteed.

Its also another way to communize DKs, which is triggering.

Templars & DK has similar kind of CC. Its scorer only CC and want to remove it? NBs has CCs back to back with defiles. Do you think people will take this comment serious ? This is no place for jokes or noob comments. Sorry.

TheYKcid

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Above all, the clunkiness of shields needs fixing. I can't count how many times I've been Executioner'ed through my shields.
Shields are a proactive defense, just like dodge. I expect the same rules, minus the global cooldown ignorance. When I press the shield button, I expect the shield to be instantly there, like dodge, and take priority over incoming damage, just like dodge.

And I also expect the game to queue the shield command properly.

@Lord-Otto @Biro123

I've had this same experience MANY times on my Magsorc, but I believe it's an issue with core game mechanics, not with wards.

Executioner/revslice has a tendency to cause a desync when landing a killing blow—if it's not ani-cancelled. Because, despite being an instacast ability, it has a pretty long animation (roughly 2/3rds of a second). So even when it has technically killed you already (as determined server-side), your client takes time to “catch-up” while the animation plays-through.

The probable sequence of events is:

1. Enemy opens a CC+burst combo on you (DB/incap).
2. You break free (which also consumes a GCD).
3. Enemy follows-through with an executioner/revslice which deals the KB. This is immediately registered by the server, which acknowledges you as dead.
4. You mash healing/hardened ward, and it gets casted 1 GCD after your CC-break. Your client legitimately displays all of this, since it still “thinks” you're alive.
5. Executioner/revslice animation completes, and your client finally acknowledges your death.

The reason stam builds don't typically have this problem, as noted, is because dodging (and blocking) function separately from the GCD. So a stam toon can dodge immediately after breaking-free in the above scenario, avoiding the follow-up executioner/revslice.

Likewise, even on a Magsorc, you kinda have to grit your teeth and burn a bit of stam dodging/blocking after a CC-break if you judge that a combo IS going to kill you before you get a ward up. Personally I prefer blocking (when it's sufficient mitigation)—it's cheaper and has nice synergy with the Persistence passive this patch.

Shoutout to @exeeter702 for awaring me on these mechanics. Would appreciate if you could double-check what I've written to make sure I'm not wildly mistaken again lol.

SelfTherapy

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Overpowered class with the highest burst damage, highest sustain and highest defence

Also streak is too effective and needs an even higher cost increase

Overpowered class with the highest burst damage, highest sustain and highest defence
Rofl. Play the tutorials NBs.
Magic sorc is easily underpowered class probably behind Magicka warden. In PVE NBs requires serious nerf or buff other classes. NBs easily outperform other classes by huge 15K dps . No wonder all Trial dps is only NBs. All other classes dps instant kick . In PVP except NB no other class can kill in 2 seconds.
Many sorc already left the class including me.
Still noob NBs not worry about the game and looking for more cheese. I am cheese lover. 50k dps from NB is really nice. I love to kick other class dps. ZOs love for NB will continue forever even all become NBS. Its waste of time to even discuss other classes.
My advice : - All switch to NB main. Trust me you dont regret. I didnt.

How the tables have turned. I remember doing trials and people only wanted sorcs.

Lord-Otto

@TheYKcid
Sounds plausible.

Biro123

Lord-Otto wrote: »

@TheYKcid
Sounds plausible.

It does, but I'm not convinced it's fully a server de-synch. Based on what I see client-side, you start casting and it can sometimes take 3 seconds for it to finish. The animation stutters a few times, so takes a few goes to get running, then it plays slowly, so by the time the effect is cast (or at least I see it cast - the server may already have registered it 2 seconds ago - who knows??), 3 seconds have passed.

Dodge, I see it instantly in the same circumstances. I know I have done the dodge, so don't need to mash it, and can move on to the next thing.

Even if the server does register the shield cast instantly, and its just my client that hasn't - it doesn't help, as it leaves me still trying to mash shield for the next 3 seconds..

I honestly can't say if, server-side, dodge is impacted just as much (ie happens waaay to late to help) but just looks different on the client side - or not - but it certainly feels a lot less annoying!

exeeter702

TheYKcid wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Above all, the clunkiness of shields needs fixing. I can't count how many times I've been Executioner'ed through my shields.
Shields are a proactive defense, just like dodge. I expect the same rules, minus the global cooldown ignorance. When I press the shield button, I expect the shield to be instantly there, like dodge, and take priority over incoming damage, just like dodge.

And I also expect the game to queue the shield command properly.

@Lord-Otto @Biro123

I've had this same experience MANY times on my Magsorc, but I believe it's an issue with core game mechanics, not with wards.

Executioner/revslice has a tendency to cause a desync when landing a killing blow—if it's not ani-cancelled. Because, despite being an instacast ability, it has a pretty long animation (roughly 2/3rds of a second). So even when it has technically killed you already (as determined server-side), your client takes time to “catch-up” while the animation plays-through.

The probable sequence of events is:

1. Enemy opens a CC+burst combo on you (DB/incap).
2. You break free (which also consumes a GCD).
3. Enemy follows-through with an executioner/revslice which deals the KB. This is immediately registered by the server, which acknowledges you as dead.
4. You mash healing/hardened ward, and it gets casted 1 GCD after your CC-break. Your client legitimately displays all of this, since it still “thinks” you're alive.
5. Executioner/revslice animation completes, and your client finally acknowledges your death.

The reason stam builds don't typically have this problem, as noted, is because dodging (and blocking) function separately from the GCD. So a stam toon can dodge immediately after breaking-free in the above scenario, avoiding the follow-up executioner/revslice.

Likewise, even on a Magsorc, you kinda have to grit your teeth and burn a bit of stam dodging/blocking after a CC-break if you judge that a combo IS going to kill you before you get a ward up. Personally I prefer blocking (when it's sufficient mitigation)—it's cheaper and has nice synergy with the Persistence passive this patch.

Shoutout to @exeeter702 for awaring me on these mechanics. Would appreciate if you could double-check what I've written to make sure I'm not wildly mistaken again lol.

TheYKcid

exeeter702 wrote: »

TheYKcid

Speaking of stuttering ward animations, has anyone else noticed how casting healing ward sometimes stutters and roots you in place for a split second?

(not strictly a sorc problem I know, but thought this was a good place to ask)

Gnozo

For pvp only:

Magicka Sorc:

1. Streak/Bol should remove snare and give 2 seconds immunity to it. Both stam and magicka use this and would benefit greatly from it. Most of magicka sorcs dont use boundless so giving boundless snare removal would be Bad.

2. Change the damage from rune prison. Make it a dot or reduce the damage by a lot. (I love this skill but its to strong atm with the current dmg). The rest needs to stay. We need an unblockable and undogeable Cc cause all of our skills can be dodged. We this to fight tanks who block a lot and NB who dodge everything.

Stamina Sorc:

1. Undo the changes to Bound Armaments. It just got destroyed. Only a few tanks use it cause when u need to block incoming damage u dont have time to cast this skills. Its not really usefull. Also we lost our cool Fashion.

2. We need a class skill that applies major fracture. For example Hurricane giving 5 seconds major fracture when the enemy got hit by it. This would also make stam Sorc viable in big groups to support with debuff to enemies instead of only being a rapid bot.

InFernalEntity

1. Lack of Stamina Passives.

I rarely see Pet Stam builds so straight away half the daedric summoning passives are useless.
Stam don't benefit from Rebate or Expert Summoner. Only benefit from Daedric Protection when using armaments or the atro ultimate.

Same with the Dark Magic line. Combat abilities there are all magicka based so I will never hit anyone with a dark magic ability. Don't benefit from the 8% Heal from Blood Magic.
If I use Dark Exchange, I get minor prophecy which doesn't benefit the stamsorc either.

I use a whole 1 or 2 Magic abilities at most on my StamSorc so Capacitor from Storm Calling is pretty much eh as well.

I wouldn't change these Passives because they're useful for MagSorc but maybe add something to benefit StamSorc. 5/12 have little to no benefit. Yes nearly half the passives give Stamina builds nothing.

2. Gap Closer/Mobility.

Expedition is nice, but a single target gap closer would be nicer.

Vahrokh

Bumped from page 8, we exist too

Since Summerset, heavy attack does not "connect" to nearest enemy as easily as it used in the past. Now, some times it works, some times we have to stop heavy attack and start a new heavy attack again, else we just sit there, leaning out with the staff but doing nothing.

cpuScientist

1. Lack of Stam passives and skills.
2. Lack of mag Regen. Really hard to sustain vs other mag classes.

Bonus round: lightning damage is once again crap compared to fire. Might as well be ice. Can lightning he reworked?

gnarlyvandal

Vapirko wrote: »

As a long time stamina player recently moved to Mag Sorc and loving it for PvP and PvE, I have no idea what people are talking about when they say sustain is terrible. I’m playing an argonian and have no issues so BiS races are going to have more recovery andax stat. Maybe I could see a problem with longer PvE boss battles but they certainly don’t seem any worse off than other classes, and I would not say that stamina sustain is noticeably better with the exception of classes like Stamina DK due to their heavy attack rotation. I would agree that Stam Sorc sustain is an issue because if you don’t slot bound armaments you have terrible stats.

You do know that argonian is the bis regen race? XD

sharquez

cpuScientist wrote: »

1. Lack of Stam passives and skills.
2. Lack of mag Regen. Really hard to sustain vs other mag classes.

Bonus round: lightning damage is once again crap compared to fire. Might as well be ice. Can lightning he reworked?

I wasn't aware a 5% passive execute, chance to apply vulnerability and an 8% difference between single target and aoe damage was so drastically impacting the ability to do any damage whatsoever to anything. Please tell me more about the hyperbolic gambreaking differences between fire and lightning elemental damage on a sorc.

cpuScientist

sharquez wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

1. Lack of Stam passives and skills.
2. Lack of mag Regen. Really hard to sustain vs other mag classes.

Bonus round: lightning damage is once again crap compared to fire. Might as well be ice. Can lightning he reworked?

I wasn't aware a 5% passive execute, chance to apply vulnerability and an 8% difference between single target and aoe damage was so drastically impacting the ability to do any damage whatsoever to anything. Please tell me more about the hyperbolic gambreaking differences between fire and lightning elemental damage on a sorc.

Ok. MagSorc BIS is double fire staves in trials. Tank and healers apply vulnerability now so that's out. And with the passives of burning and a dk using breath fire wall and flame light attacks simply do more damage, even with the passive execute of Sorc and the extra lightning damage of a sorc... In trials this is. In Groups dungeons use whatever. In dummy parses lightning would probably outperform as you don't have healer/yank applying these for you and no engulfing flames. Furthermore the fire staff passive of 8% more on single Target, while we do alot of aoe if there is trash around on the boss purely we do more single Target damage so lightning staves are also weaker there...

But I mean magSorcs use double fire now for best DPS.... All mag uses flame. It's so boring have some pariety that it's nearly equal.

cpuScientist

Oh also when did I say it was game breaking? Are we pulling words out of thin air again?

Galarthor

Gnozo wrote: »

For pvp only:

2. Change the damage from rune prison. Make it a dot or reduce the damage by a lot. (I love this skill but its to strong atm with the current dmg). The rest needs to stay. We need an unblockable and undogeable Cc cause all of our skills can be dodged. We this to fight tanks who block a lot and NB who dodge everything.

Just curious, what exactly do you understand by "a lot"? It effectively deals between 1.5k and 3k damage. Tbh I don't really see a lot of potential for damage reduction, without nerfing it to the point of irrelevance. I don't think the damage is a problem at all. But if you want to nerf the damage then it is best to replace it with some other secondary effect - such like minor maim on fear. Sorcs are lacking in that regard anyways.

I seriously don't get why people feel the 1.5k to 3k damage is what's getting them killed all the time. Besides, nowadays you see more and more people having adapted to the new sorc play style and reacting accordingly when they see a meteor is about to hit them.


And please do something about the discrepancy between Shields+Heals and Dodge+Block addressed by @TheYKcid. I already mentioned that before, but it gets really frustrating when you press shields or heals in time on your end but then die 2 sec later without them having any effects.

barshemm

Stam sorc:

We really lack an "oh crap" button. With this meta you're better off running heavy. I'm trying 5m impreg right now and while I can sustain damage a bit, I'm still using fm because I don't have a spot for shuffle or the stamina to use it anyway. High damage night blades can usually burn me after an incap except when I boost my crit resist super high (hence the impreg). A burst heal, purge, major mending or something would help a lot.


We also have no debuffs. A spammable that would apply fracture or defile would go a long way. We basically are forced to use weapon abilities or maybe the psijic concussed weapons. That feels so clunky though, maybe if it was fixed so it wouldn't recast until it expired or the charge was used...

Narvuntien

So I dusted off my Sorc Healer for some vet pleadges.

Issues I ran into.
1. Mechanics just insta killing my pets/bosses targeting my pets. Mean sometimes its good that they target them instead of me but I need my matriarch to heal the group.
2. The long cast time on the pet recast and even the cast time on the matriarch heal makes it difficult to emergency heal. Have to use healing springs as well and I only have so many bar slots (One less than other healers, although i use Overload to get more)

generalmyrick

1) Rune Cage/prison is too much.

2) Mages Fury/wrath --- An execute you can cast and it does it thing while piling on more dps?

Fiktius

I've been lately playing a lot as Sorcerer in PvP and there are two pain points which I would like to mention:

1) Mage's Fury/Wrath as ranged execute:
Who thought this is a good idea? At kill based game modes in Battlegrounds this turns out to be often super easy way to steal kills from other players. I just need to find a player who's at execute HP range and I can cast the execute from distance and receive kill for my team. 0 % skill required. I may as well rename my Sorc as "Kill Stealerino".
Meanwhile Executioner skill from 2H skill line is way more fair execute since I need to be really close to my target, but this clearly is not a thing with Mage's Wrath - skill.

2) I also would like to see more stamina based class skills which deals damage and would be worth to slot. Currently Hurricane is most useful, but other worthy stamina damage skills are currently all found from weapon skill lines.

bardx86

Fiktius wrote: »

I've been lately playing a lot as Sorcerer in PvP and there are two pain points which I would like to mention:

1) Mage's Fury/Wrath as ranged execute:
Who thought this is a good idea? At kill based game modes in Battlegrounds this turns out to be often super easy way to steal kills from other players. I just need to find a player who's at execute HP range and I can cast the execute from distance and receive kill for my team. 0 % skill required. I may as well rename my Sorc as "Kill Stealerino".
Meanwhile Executioner skill from 2H skill line is way more fair execute since I need to be really close to my target, but this clearly is not a thing with Mage's Wrath - skill.

2) I also would like to see more stamina based class skills which deals damage and would be worth to slot. Currently Hurricane is most useful, but other worthy stamina damage skills are currently all found from weapon skill lines.

Wrath is not the problem its the way the score is determined. This thread is for Sorc pain points please keep it that way.

Apherius

nerf sorc thread is a pain point, btw.

maybe limit this to 4 nerf sorc thread max by week ? Instead of the current 43.

Fiktius

bardx86 wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

I've been lately playing a lot as Sorcerer in PvP and there are two pain points which I would like to mention:

1) Mage's Fury/Wrath as ranged execute:
Who thought this is a good idea? At kill based game modes in Battlegrounds this turns out to be often super easy way to steal kills from other players. I just need to find a player who's at execute HP range and I can cast the execute from distance and receive kill for my team. 0 % skill required. I may as well rename my Sorc as "Kill Stealerino".
Meanwhile Executioner skill from 2H skill line is way more fair execute since I need to be really close to my target, but this clearly is not a thing with Mage's Wrath - skill.

2) I also would like to see more stamina based class skills which deals damage and would be worth to slot. Currently Hurricane is most useful, but other worthy stamina damage skills are currently all found from weapon skill lines.

Wrath is not the problem its the way the score is determined. This thread is for Sorc pain points please keep it that way.

Battleground environment was mostly an example. It's still an issue in duels, Cyrodiil, IC, basically in any PvP environment.
It's not about "who receives the kill", it's about how high benefits ranged execute provides, which may cause issues.
You may not think it's a problem and see nothing wrong in Mage's Wrath, but I agree to disagree with you.
After all this was my feedback, I'm completely fine if there are people around who does not share the same opinion with me.

Minalan

Fiktius wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

I've been lately playing a lot as Sorcerer in PvP and there are two pain points which I would like to mention:

1) Mage's Fury/Wrath as ranged execute:
Who thought this is a good idea? At kill based game modes in Battlegrounds this turns out to be often super easy way to steal kills from other players. I just need to find a player who's at execute HP range and I can cast the execute from distance and receive kill for my team. 0 % skill required. I may as well rename my Sorc as "Kill Stealerino".
Meanwhile Executioner skill from 2H skill line is way more fair execute since I need to be really close to my target, but this clearly is not a thing with Mage's Wrath - skill.

2) I also would like to see more stamina based class skills which deals damage and would be worth to slot. Currently Hurricane is most useful, but other worthy stamina damage skills are currently all found from weapon skill lines.

Wrath is not the problem its the way the score is determined. This thread is for Sorc pain points please keep it that way.

Battleground environment was mostly an example. It's still an issue in duels, Cyrodiil, IC, basically in any PvP environment.
It's not about "who receives the kill", it's about how high benefits ranged execute provides, which may cause issues.
You may not think it's a problem and see nothing wrong in Mage's Wrath, but I agree to disagree with you.
After all this was my feedback, I'm completely fine if there are people around who does not share the same opinion with me.

We could always ask the devs to kindly change the kill recording mechanism to who did the most health damage.

But people are lazy, and not terribly bright. It’s our nature. Why do all of that hard math when the devs can just ruin wrath completely in ten minutes? Problem solved!

Vahrokh

Fiktius wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

I've been lately playing a lot as Sorcerer in PvP and there are two pain points which I would like to mention:

1) Mage's Fury/Wrath as ranged execute:
Who thought this is a good idea? At kill based game modes in Battlegrounds this turns out to be often super easy way to steal kills from other players. I just need to find a player who's at execute HP range and I can cast the execute from distance and receive kill for my team. 0 % skill required. I may as well rename my Sorc as "Kill Stealerino".
Meanwhile Executioner skill from 2H skill line is way more fair execute since I need to be really close to my target, but this clearly is not a thing with Mage's Wrath - skill.

2) I also would like to see more stamina based class skills which deals damage and would be worth to slot. Currently Hurricane is most useful, but other worthy stamina damage skills are currently all found from weapon skill lines.

Wrath is not the problem its the way the score is determined. This thread is for Sorc pain points please keep it that way.

Battleground environment was mostly an example. It's still an issue in duels, Cyrodiil, IC, basically in any PvP environment.
It's not about "who receives the kill", it's about how high benefits ranged execute provides, which may cause issues.
You may not think it's a problem and see nothing wrong in Mage's Wrath, but I agree to disagree with you.
After all this was my feedback, I'm completely fine if there are people around who does not share the same opinion with me.

In case you haven't noticed, magsorcs are a ranged spec.
In case you haven't noticed, wrath is so weak compared to other executes that it's the first skill we drop in trials. It's weak exactly because to balance the fact it's ranged. I do more DPS without Mage's Wrath (and with another non-execute ability in place) than with it.

Vahrokh

Minalan wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

I've been lately playing a lot as Sorcerer in PvP and there are two pain points which I would like to mention:

1) Mage's Fury/Wrath as ranged execute:
Who thought this is a good idea? At kill based game modes in Battlegrounds this turns out to be often super easy way to steal kills from other players. I just need to find a player who's at execute HP range and I can cast the execute from distance and receive kill for my team. 0 % skill required. I may as well rename my Sorc as "Kill Stealerino".
Meanwhile Executioner skill from 2H skill line is way more fair execute since I need to be really close to my target, but this clearly is not a thing with Mage's Wrath - skill.

2) I also would like to see more stamina based class skills which deals damage and would be worth to slot. Currently Hurricane is most useful, but other worthy stamina damage skills are currently all found from weapon skill lines.

Wrath is not the problem its the way the score is determined. This thread is for Sorc pain points please keep it that way.

Battleground environment was mostly an example. It's still an issue in duels, Cyrodiil, IC, basically in any PvP environment.
It's not about "who receives the kill", it's about how high benefits ranged execute provides, which may cause issues.
You may not think it's a problem and see nothing wrong in Mage's Wrath, but I agree to disagree with you.
After all this was my feedback, I'm completely fine if there are people around who does not share the same opinion with me.

We could always ask the devs to kindly change the kill recording mechanism to who did the most health damage.

But people are lazy, and not terribly bright. It’s our nature. Why do all of that hard math when the devs can just ruin wrath completely in ten minutes? Problem solved!

Yeah. Knowing ZOS developers, in order to rebalance Rune Cage and Mage's Wrath:

- They will leave both as is.
- They'll nerf Crystal Shards another 30%, because that's that they love to do the most.
- They'll nerf Liquid Lightning. Ah, it's not a PvP skill? Even better, we love to screw PvE players due to PvP complaints!
- They'll nerf Healing pet. Because.