[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

Vahrokh

Somber97866 wrote: »

( PVE )
1: TO hit as hard as magblades again ( without useless pet ) Single target burst damage is almost non existant.
2: Better sustain
3: High elf sorc's ( in my opinion ) should always hit hardest. Ppl are running Dark elf ( duel inferno ) to be able to actually compete in dps ( so sad )

1: pets are not useless and the reason they are not useless is because sorc hits harder with them. If you make magsorcs hit as hard as a magblade without a pet, then you just removed any reason to ever play magblade or petsorc whatsoever.

2: Hell YES

3: No thanks. I rolled a Dark Elf because I cannot stand "fake barbie" looking high elves. My race is fire specced, why should a non fire specced race beat my fire specced race at fire spells?

Lord-Otto

Vahrokh wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

( PVE )
1: TO hit as hard as magblades again ( without useless pet ) Single target burst damage is almost non existant.
2: Better sustain
3: High elf sorc's ( in my opinion ) should always hit hardest. Ppl are running Dark elf ( duel inferno ) to be able to actually compete in dps ( so sad )

1: pets are not useless and the reason they are not useless is because sorc hits harder with them. If you make magsorcs hit as hard as a magblade without a pet, then you just removed any reason to ever play magblade or petsorc whatsoever.

2: Hell YES

3: No thanks. I rolled a Dark Elf because I cannot stand "fake barbie" looking high elves. My race is fire specced, why should a non fire specced race beat my fire specced race at fire spells?

You don't like barbie elves??? Whaaa-? What's wrong with you?
;P

High Elf sorcs should outdamage Dark Elf ones in total. Dunmer are for DKs. The problem is a lack of synergy with all three elements. There's really only Force Pulse, which made way for heavy rotations. And in the other areas, fire is generally the preferred damage element. Maybe a slight buff to the shock damage passive would do.

Ankael07

Dont know about you guys but I cant wait to heavy attack my enemies to death with Overload

_Salty_

No stam sorc changes. Great job Zos.

Vahrokh

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

( PVE )
1: TO hit as hard as magblades again ( without useless pet ) Single target burst damage is almost non existant.
2: Better sustain
3: High elf sorc's ( in my opinion ) should always hit hardest. Ppl are running Dark elf ( duel inferno ) to be able to actually compete in dps ( so sad )

1: pets are not useless and the reason they are not useless is because sorc hits harder with them. If you make magsorcs hit as hard as a magblade without a pet, then you just removed any reason to ever play magblade or petsorc whatsoever.

2: Hell YES

3: No thanks. I rolled a Dark Elf because I cannot stand "fake barbie" looking high elves. My race is fire specced, why should a non fire specced race beat my fire specced race at fire spells?

You don't like barbie elves??? Whaaa-? What's wrong with you?
;P

High Elf sorcs should outdamage Dark Elf ones in total. Dunmer are for DKs. The problem is a lack of synergy with all three elements. There's really only Force Pulse, which made way for heavy rotations. And in the other areas, fire is generally the preferred damage element. Maybe a slight buff to the shock damage passive would do.

If I am using all fire damage except liquid lightning, why should an High Elf outDPS my Dark Elf? Considering they also get a regen boost, they certainly are not going to risk extinction by next week.

Lord-Otto

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

( PVE )
1: TO hit as hard as magblades again ( without useless pet ) Single target burst damage is almost non existant.
2: Better sustain
3: High elf sorc's ( in my opinion ) should always hit hardest. Ppl are running Dark elf ( duel inferno ) to be able to actually compete in dps ( so sad )

1: pets are not useless and the reason they are not useless is because sorc hits harder with them. If you make magsorcs hit as hard as a magblade without a pet, then you just removed any reason to ever play magblade or petsorc whatsoever.

2: Hell YES

3: No thanks. I rolled a Dark Elf because I cannot stand "fake barbie" looking high elves. My race is fire specced, why should a non fire specced race beat my fire specced race at fire spells?

You don't like barbie elves??? Whaaa-? What's wrong with you?
;P

High Elf sorcs should outdamage Dark Elf ones in total. Dunmer are for DKs. The problem is a lack of synergy with all three elements. There's really only Force Pulse, which made way for heavy rotations. And in the other areas, fire is generally the preferred damage element. Maybe a slight buff to the shock damage passive would do.

If I am using all fire damage except liquid lightning, why should an High Elf outDPS my Dark Elf? Considering they also get a regen boost, they certainly are not going to risk extinction by next week.

'cause I think Dunmer should be reserved for mDK. It's just such an obvious and fitting... errr, fit.
How are you using so much fire on a sorc, anyway?

JobooAGS

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

( PVE )
1: TO hit as hard as magblades again ( without useless pet ) Single target burst damage is almost non existant.
2: Better sustain
3: High elf sorc's ( in my opinion ) should always hit hardest. Ppl are running Dark elf ( duel inferno ) to be able to actually compete in dps ( so sad )

1: pets are not useless and the reason they are not useless is because sorc hits harder with them. If you make magsorcs hit as hard as a magblade without a pet, then you just removed any reason to ever play magblade or petsorc whatsoever.

2: Hell YES

3: No thanks. I rolled a Dark Elf because I cannot stand "fake barbie" looking high elves. My race is fire specced, why should a non fire specced race beat my fire specced race at fire spells?

You don't like barbie elves??? Whaaa-? What's wrong with you?
;P

High Elf sorcs should outdamage Dark Elf ones in total. Dunmer are for DKs. The problem is a lack of synergy with all three elements. There's really only Force Pulse, which made way for heavy rotations. And in the other areas, fire is generally the preferred damage element. Maybe a slight buff to the shock damage passive would do.

If I am using all fire damage except liquid lightning, why should an High Elf outDPS my Dark Elf? Considering they also get a regen boost, they certainly are not going to risk extinction by next week.

'cause I think Dunmer should be reserved for mDK. It's just such an obvious and fitting... errr, fit.
How are you using so much fire on a sorc, anyway?

Light attack buff gave fire staves an indirect buff
So therefore a dark elf buff. Dark elf = fire which can mean mdk, but any build is primarily fire is what dark elf specializes in

Beardimus

So class reps. What's your view on the changes this PTS?

do you feel listened too / stuff explained. Right changes made? Just curious how the process feels.

Looks to me zos have acted on Sloads and cage. People still hate both tho.

Joy_Division

Beardimus wrote: »

So class reps. What's your view on the changes this PTS?

do you feel listened too / stuff explained. Right changes made? Just curious how the process feels.

Looks to me zos have acted on Sloads and cage. People still hate both tho.

Because the main problems of both are still present: Sloads is too easy to put true damage on a player and Rune Cage still does not have counter-play.

Beardimus

Yeah roger that Joy, hence my query is do the Reps feel listened to. i.e. where the changes we have gotten asked for.

BuddyAces

_Salty_ wrote: »

No stam sorc changes. Great job Zos.

Joy_Division

Beardimus wrote: »

Yeah roger that Joy, hence my query is do the Reps feel listened to. i.e. where the changes we have gotten asked for.

I will wait until Update 19 launches to make a judgement on that. We have a meeting on the 20th to specifically discuss the PTS so we will see if the Class Rep program makes a difference.

Feanor

@Joy_Division

My feel after crossreading the 4.0.1. notes: ZOS put in some stuff they thought was popular consensus, but in reality that's just a friendly wink to show they have read some of it. All the other issues still remain, most notably the sustain part and the wish to have true mobility again. Also, Templars just got a small patch over the huge holes in their house walls. I agree though 4.1.5. might look a bit different and hopefully better.

BaylorCorvette

_Salty_ wrote: »

No stam sorc changes. Great job Zos.

This.

Since it is the first week of PTS I'm hopeful there will be more changes, specifically StamSorc changes. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

StamDK's got a nice little buff with a (small) snare immunity on wings. Could potentially run heavy armor with rally.

_Salty_

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

No stam sorc changes. Great job Zos.

This.

Since it is the first week of PTS I'm hopeful there will be more changes, specifically StamSorc changes. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

StamDK's got a nice little buff with a (small) snare immunity on wings. Could potentially run heavy armor with rally.

I wouldn't hold my breath. They seem confused about what they invision stamina sorcs to look like. Hurricane bound armor dark deal and a whole lot of weapon skills seems to be their idea. The player base asks for passives that actually have a use. We get nothing yet.

Every single nightblade passive is relevant to both specs. Everyone. This should be the benchmark that all classes are balanced upon. Usefull skills and well rounded passives that appeal to all players regardless of spec.

Gallagher563

_Salty_ wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

No stam sorc changes. Great job Zos.

This.

Since it is the first week of PTS I'm hopeful there will be more changes, specifically StamSorc changes. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

StamDK's got a nice little buff with a (small) snare immunity on wings. Could potentially run heavy armor with rally.

I wouldn't hold my breath. They seem confused about what they invision stamina sorcs to look like. Hurricane bound armor dark deal and a whole lot of weapon skills seems to be their idea. The player base asks for passives that actually have a use. We get nothing yet.

Every single nightblade passive is relevant to both specs. Everyone. This should be the benchmark that all classes are balanced upon. Usefull skills and well rounded passives that appeal to all players regardless of spec.

I couldn't agree more. I just re-did my skill points on my StamSorc and ended up not using several of the passives because they don't apply to me or are unusable. Take for example the health recovery for damage by a dark magic skill which has no stamina skills. Also the addition health for slotting a pet is totally not applicable on a StamSorc.

BuddyAces

_Salty_ wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

No stam sorc changes. Great job Zos.

This.

Since it is the first week of PTS I'm hopeful there will be more changes, specifically StamSorc changes. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

StamDK's got a nice little buff with a (small) snare immunity on wings. Could potentially run heavy armor with rally.

I wouldn't hold my breath. They seem confused about what they invision stamina sorcs to look like. Hurricane bound armor dark deal and a whole lot of weapon skills seems to be their idea. The player base asks for passives that actually have a use. We get nothing yet.

Every single nightblade passive is relevant to both specs. Everyone. This should be the benchmark that all classes are balanced upon. Usefull skills and well rounded passives that appeal to all players regardless of spec.

Ive been saying that for awhile now. Nightblades are not OP (I don't PvP much so pve talking), just the only class that's balanced right. Shows how craptastic the other classes are. GJ ZOS on getting one class in a good spot. Leave em alone and bring the others up to par

BeefyMrTips

I took a month off in May because of how screwed up the sorc was with how you had to play it similar to a nightblade to obtain decent dps. I came back and have found the sorc is playing like a sorc again, Thank God!

Sorc has always been my main, (if necromancers aren't available;) ) and I have the understanding that as far as raw power and ability to dps, the nightblade will and should outperform a sorc when it comes to single target. The reverse is true when it comes to handling multiple targets. I easily manage my pets in trials and switch them out based on need. I currently see many trials mag blades hitting 47k and I am at 42.5 with my pet sorc solo parse, so I am happy

Also, as a sorc who hits 42.5 I can easily tank many vet dungeons with ease using empowered ward. I am speaking of mainly pve but I think it is pretty balanced compared to other magicka dps. We can keep a consistent dps going without fear of dying unlike nightblades, so the trade off for a bit more dps on nightblades seems fair.

As a side note, I know nothing of stam versions so don't crucify me on that.

Also, I still do very well in pvp with my pve setup since my burst damage and pet ability kills everything with that execute lingering over an enemies head=)

If I did change one thing- Id change pets to pull maybe 2/5 from spell damage vs only max magicka

Itacira

I wrote this comment on a thread about skill slots, but thought it would fit here too.

[...]Make it so I can slot the pet summoning skills on only one bar without losing it when I swap.

[...] Give me a countdown before the pet summons out. Like, after 10 secs on a skill bar without X pet summoning skill, X summoned pet will go away, so if you want to keep it you gotta swap back to the original bar. This could actually be a cool thing to fit into a rotation, and allow for more skill diversity for summoners.

VierulSquirrel

The two main points in PvE that drags the sorc down, is sustain, and group benefits. and this pertains to hm trials most of all. making proc sets crit in PvE will help not only the sorc, but it will help the play-ability of most range magic classes. Try to work this into battle spirit so the pvpers' wont complain.

Also, take a look at the sorcs pets and calss ultimates, the clannfaer morph can be made into a stam morph and hopefully allow it to be used on atam sorc. Then the ultimates can also use a bit of a rework, mainly the negate, and the charged atro.
allow the charged atro to be summoned like normal, but have it cast a constant aoe like the fist boss in AA. The negate needs to be made able to not deal damage anymore (because lets be honest its trash damage), but allow it to be a true inhale, as in pull the enemies to the center of the bubble (omitting trial bosses)

Chilly-McFreeze

VierulSquirrel wrote: »

Also, take a look at the sorcs pets and calss ultimates, the clannfaer morph can be made into a stam morph and hopefully allow it to be used on atam sorc.

I was on the "stam sorcs needs pets" side for a long time. But then I though: what good would that do?

It does low damage so most use it as a meat shield. Do I need a double slotted pet on my (solo) pve stam sorc to pull aggro?

On melee: not really, surge lets me heal through most damage and I'd still have to avoid enemy centered aoes. Which leads me to the question: how do I keep that pet alive without shields? And what do I unslot to fit that pet in? Bound Armor and loose 8% stam and 11% light attack damage just to gain a low damage pet and a few % health?

On ranged: okay, this could be interesting but it needs an actual taunt for this. But then again, how do I keep it alive and do I really want to drop any two skills in order to gain a pet?

In trials pets are already a pain.
And then there are no real fitting sets for a stam pet user. I can only think of Hunt leader which has a small heal, tiny stam return and a comparably large cooldown.
Also mind that pets scale only on max resources (as far as I know). Stam toons have an easier time to stack weapon damage than max resources. Bound Armor helps but that would mean that 3-4 slots are needed to gain a pet that doesn't deal much damage to begin with.

Tl;dr:
- no shields to keep it alive
- not needed as a meat shield due to surge
- bar space issues
- no sets that synergyzes as well as with the mag counterpart

paallterrain148

Lack of stamina skills/passives.

Too much delayed burst in PvP, not enough consistent damage for pve.

Jaxaxo

About runecage, what about making it, that u can use it on CC-immune target and waste magicka? So the skill would require a bit of awareness about what's happening with opponent, if he get's CC-ed by somebody else or u? Would require a bit more skill that way. But dunno, just wondering...

olsborg

Would be cool with a Wind Atronach ulti dealing physical dmg.

Tonturri

Jaxaxo wrote: »

About runecage, what about making it, that u can use it on CC-immune target and waste magicka? So the skill would require a bit of awareness about what's happening with opponent, if he get's CC-ed by somebody else or u? Would require a bit more skill that way. But dunno, just wondering...

Personally I think this is a good option - but the skil should also offer a decently powerful DoT. This'll add synergy in pvp between sorc skills, as we currently have...pretty much just lightning form? To regularly proc Surge heals. Throwing more DoTs into the pvp toolkit would go a long way to filling in some of the gaps in the class, in addition to (though it'd require some careful balancing I suppose) serving as a dps increase in pve.

Maybe have it apply a DoT if the target CC breaks or apply a stronger DoT if cast on a CC immune target.

Galarthor

Jaxaxo wrote: »

About runecage, what about making it, that u can use it on CC-immune target and waste magicka? So the skill would require a bit of awareness about what's happening with opponent, if he get's CC-ed by somebody else or u? Would require a bit more skill that way. But dunno, just wondering...

Personally, I like the old version where CCs where not unusable on CC immune targets. But since all the targeted stuns got the same treatment, I don't see a reason why to only punish Rune Cage. It should be either all or none. Otherwise you are opening Pandora's box here for a multitude of single CC ability specific properties that will soon lead to severe balancing issues.

Fossilize and Fear are basically identical in design to Rune Cage ... if not even better due to their secondary effects. The only difference is the range. But both of these classes reliable gap closers to get into range and by design are usually interested in being in melee range anyways. The shorter range is, therefore, not an issue for them. Sorcs on the other hand are designed as a ranged class. Calling to make its CC melee-ranged is, therefore, an ill-conceived demand - especially with the lack of a gap closer.

Some wise guy might now what to say "But Sorcs got Streak as a gap closer". First of all: Streak is a Gap Opener not A a Gap Closer. Second, Streak has a far shorter range, is way more expensive, and far less relaible / accurate, and significantly slower. While with a gap closer you press 1 button and you are at your targets location, you will most likely have to spam streak multiple times to reach your target. And the number only increases if you target moves. And even more so, when your target is not moving in a straight line as streak bolts you forward in a straight line and does not account for your targets movement (due to its gap opener nature).

The only thing Rune Cage needs (much like other stuns) is a faster CC breaking animation / a shorter delay on it.

Jaxaxo

Galarthor wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

About runecage, what about making it, that u can use it on CC-immune target and waste magicka? So the skill would require a bit of awareness about what's happening with opponent, if he get's CC-ed by somebody else or u? Would require a bit more skill that way. But dunno, just wondering...

Personally, I like the old version where CCs where not unusable on CC immune targets. But since all the targeted stuns got the same treatment, I don't see a reason why to only punish Rune Cage. It should be either all or none. Otherwise you are opening Pandora's box here for a multitude of single CC ability specific properties that will soon lead to severe balancing issues.

Fossilize and Fear are basically identical in design to Rune Cage ... if not even better due to their secondary effects. The only difference is the range. But both of these classes reliable gap closers to get into range and by design are usually interested in being in melee range anyways. The shorter range is, therefore, not an issue for them. Sorcs on the other hand are designed as a ranged class. Calling to make its CC melee-ranged is, therefore, an ill-conceived demand - especially with the lack of a gap closer.

Some wise guy might now what to say "But Sorcs got Streak as a gap closer". First of all: Streak is a Gap Opener not A a Gap Closer. Second, Streak has a far shorter range, is way more expensive, and far less relaible / accurate, and significantly slower. While with a gap closer you press 1 button and you are at your targets location, you will most likely have to spam streak multiple times to reach your target. And the number only increases if you target moves. And even more so, when your target is not moving in a straight line as streak bolts you forward in a straight line and does not account for your targets movement (due to its gap opener nature).

The only thing Rune Cage needs (much like other stuns) is a faster CC breaking animation / a shorter delay on it.

I mean, i guess it's same code, so with rune cage was thinking about fossilize too. And they're very similar (targeted stun ignoring roll/block with information about CC-immune status of enemy). About fear now it's only 2 targets and they're nerfing snare too, wouldnt mind cuting either it or minor maim. Oh, and fix buggy break free, i guess that's what most ppl cry about. But the think i would see is rather punishing ppl with worse mag sustain if they dont pay attention about what's happening to enemy.

Tonturri wrote: »

Jaxaxo wrote: »

About runecage, what about making it, that u can use it on CC-immune target and waste magicka? So the skill would require a bit of awareness about what's happening with opponent, if he get's CC-ed by somebody else or u? Would require a bit more skill that way. But dunno, just wondering...

Personally I think this is a good option - but the skil should also offer a decently powerful DoT. This'll add synergy in pvp between sorc skills, as we currently have...pretty much just lightning form? To regularly proc Surge heals. Throwing more DoTs into the pvp toolkit would go a long way to filling in some of the gaps in the class, in addition to (though it'd require some careful balancing I suppose) serving as a dps increase in pve.

Maybe have it apply a DoT if the target CC breaks or apply a stronger DoT if cast on a CC immune target.

The idea of dot working that way seems pretty nice. But with this change they would need to do sth with fossilize too if it would hit cc-immune target. Maybe longer root?

Kattemynte

The issue I have with sorcerers is that our passive Implosion, where it looks cool in writing, just does not seem effective. During the past 6 vet dungeon runs with my stamina sorcerer I average 3-4 implosions between all the bosses combined. It ends up being a minimal dps increase (anywhere between 200-500 dps)
I wish this could either have a higher chance to proc or have it proc at a higher health threshold. It is just barely more helpful than my 2nd point of the passive Capacitor being useful to stamina sorcs. In general there are more magicka based passives for all classes than there is stamina and that I think should also be addressed.

Chilly-McFreeze

I don't think buffing implosion is a good idea. Reworking, okay, but just buffing? The forum is already filled with complains about an RNG passive execute in an RNG riddled game.

King_Thelon

Implosion is an RNG-proc with 0 counterplay. Such a thing doesn't belong within 100 ft of any respectable PvP game.

I guess it's right at home with ESO then.