[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

Savos_Saren

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

You can still use it for group utility. My light armor mDK still slots talons on his SnB bar. If they made one version of talons poison- I'd 100% slot it for my stam DK. I usually run in small to large groups in BG/Cyrodiil.

magicka Dk makes actual use of the talons with the whip off-balance synergy and the overal slow kit of mDk works better with talons. I don't think poison talons is a bad idea.(İn fact it would be a lot more useful than the hurr durr stonefist spammable But I think It is not really unique or something critical to stamDk, we are not a control class, not a stand your ground class anymore, not really have any synergies with it, So why give us even more tank tools if we simply don't want to be basic tanks?

sDK needs the good stuff, like poison inhale or a poison morph of volatile armor, which would help a lot with damage output, And while at it both classes could benefit from an improved flames of oblivion... Its in a sad state. Its cheap and cute , I like it, I use it all the time, but still. Its in a kinda weak state compared to what other classes have.

100% agree on that. We absolutely need a couple of our class AOE skills morphed into stamina-based (poison) skills in order to benefit from World-In-Ruin. Currently, we only have Noxious Breath (which didn't benefit before?) and Corrosive Armor (weak damage).

Sets that cause AOE poison:
Syvarrah's Scales (laughable damage)
Defiler (very slow proc)
Widowmaker (I don't think I've seen this in PVP)
Leeching (the heal is halved in PVP- making this beautiful set useless)
Spawn of Mephala (weak set)

So... only TWO of our skills even benefit from our passive and the sets that should help with the passive need better application toward PVP.

Bobleeswaggen

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

Savos_Saren

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

Edelner

What do you think about stamina DK, Redguard, 2h/dual wield + bow? Would it work?

John_Falstaff

@Edelner , aside from the usual woes of melee stamina in general experiences in newer trials (and select dungeons), it should work for everything else. What you describe is more or less meta (DW rather than 2H, since 2H is yet to receive some gifts that'll bring damage in line with DW). Being a redguard might save you a regen glyph (though as khajiit, I can sustain full light attack rotation in group play and on 3M dummy with all damage enchantments and purple food). So if you feel inclined and don't fear being rejected by current meta in Cloudrest, Asylum or HoF, you can give a shot.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

To your last point, I'm not exactly sure those are very comparable (stam whip = mag execute), because as you pointed out, stam DK has spammable options, just not from class skills. Mag DK, however, does not have access to any execute, either through weapon skills, guild skills, class skills, or world-based skills.

People who want stam whip want it because they feel class identity for stam DK is nonexistent (and they are correct, in my opinion). This is also part of why a lot of people want more stam/poison morphs of DK skills, the other big reason being to benefit from DK class passives, as you also pointed out.

People who want mag DK execute just want an execute. There are no other options for mag executes for DKs, and we have to rely on bloodthirsty jewelry in PvP to achieve a similar effect (and it's not even remotely close to the templar, sorc, or NB executes, which can dramatically turn the tide of a fight in PvP).

All that said, I believe we should have a stam whip and a DK class magicka execute.

BohnT

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

All of the mentioned spammables don't synergise at all with stamdk even heroic slash doesn't give you much (a whooping 46 mag and stam regen is all you get) while most skills you mentioned are so bad that no one would ever consider slotting them as a spammable.

Stamdk needs both a stamina spammable, name it what you want, stamwhip being the most prominent example AND more stamina skills like deep breath or talons which should be made to synergise with the spammable.

Look at stamplar and stamnb both have a spammable that perfectly synergises with the class along with other stamina based skills and that's what makes them fun to play and strong.

Savos_Saren

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

All of the mentioned spammables don't synergise at all with stamdk even heroic slash doesn't give you much (a whooping 46 mag and stam regen is all you get) while most skills you mentioned are so bad that no one would ever consider slotting them as a spammable.

Stamdk needs both a stamina spammable, name it what you want, stamwhip being the most prominent example AND more stamina skills like deep breath or talons which should be made to synergise with the spammable.

Look at stamplar and stamnb both have a spammable that perfectly synergises with the class along with other stamina based skills and that's what makes them fun to play and strong.

I'm pretty sure I've been spammed by uppercut, reverse slash, twin slashes, snipe, and poison arrow in PVP. So- they are worth mentioning. I think the AOE poison class abilities would be more in line with what the devs would allow. A stamina whip would have the potential of putting stamDKs over-the-top in PVP. (Or, sadly, just on par with NBs and Sorcs.) If the devs are willing to give stamDKs a spammable whip... then they need to offer mDKs a class execute.

Look at it this way: What's the excuse for mDKs to NOT have an execute? Everyone says "Because mDKs have a powerful spammable and Leap!" Yet stamDKs want a powerful spammable, leap, AND access to three stamina-based executes..?

Again- I don't have a problem with stamDKs having a stamina whip (because it'll put them on par with NBs and Sorcs)… but IF stamDKs get a stamina whip, then mDKs need an execute. Maybe then we'll both be able to compete with NBs and Sorcs.

BohnT

Savos_Saren wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

All of the mentioned spammables don't synergise at all with stamdk even heroic slash doesn't give you much (a whooping 46 mag and stam regen is all you get) while most skills you mentioned are so bad that no one would ever consider slotting them as a spammable.

Stamdk needs both a stamina spammable, name it what you want, stamwhip being the most prominent example AND more stamina skills like deep breath or talons which should be made to synergise with the spammable.

Look at stamplar and stamnb both have a spammable that perfectly synergises with the class along with other stamina based skills and that's what makes them fun to play and strong.

I'm pretty sure I've been spammed by uppercut, reverse slash, twin slashes, snipe, and poison arrow in PVP. So- they are worth mentioning. I think the AOE poison class abilities would be more in line with what the devs would allow. A stamina whip would have the potential of putting stamDKs over-the-top in PVP. (Or, sadly, just on par with NBs and Sorcs.) If the devs are willing to give stamDKs a spammable whip... then they need to offer mDKs a class execute.

Look at it this way: What's the excuse for mDKs to NOT have an execute? Everyone says "Because mDKs have a powerful spammable and Leap!" Yet stamDKs want a powerful spammable, leap, AND access to three stamina-based executes..?

Again- I don't have a problem with stamDKs having a stamina whip (because it'll put them on par with NBs and Sorcs)… but IF stamDKs get a stamina whip, then mDKs need an execute. Maybe then we'll both be able to compete with NBs and Sorcs.

Why does magdk need an execute and what does it have to do with stamdk being so utter trash that it's non existant atm?

If you play stamdk you know that uppercut is a useless piece of mr hanky, everytime i see someone trying to uppercut me i hear him screaming: howdyhoooo followed by the sound it makes when sh't hits a your toilet when i simply walk through them or they hit me but the damage is too low to be scary.

In order to use reverse slice you have to bring your enemy to less than 50% health, well you won't do that just by applying some dots like poison injection and rending slashes (which isn't possible to do in the first place as one is DW, indem is a Bow skill and last is 2h)

Snipe is the weakest spammable in the game when it comes to 1v1s even worse when your enemy isn't a target dummy


This discussion is about stamdk and a stamwhip, magdk and it's problems shouldn't be a factor if we decide wether stamdk keeps being useless or can reach the same viability magdk has which is in fact in the area of magnbs, magsorcs and stamwarden.

Also i don't know why magdk needs an execute, I've never felt the need for it. When i hop on my magdk i rather feel that i have too many skills i want to use rather than have too many flex spots

Savos_Saren

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

All of the mentioned spammables don't synergise at all with stamdk even heroic slash doesn't give you much (a whooping 46 mag and stam regen is all you get) while most skills you mentioned are so bad that no one would ever consider slotting them as a spammable.

Stamdk needs both a stamina spammable, name it what you want, stamwhip being the most prominent example AND more stamina skills like deep breath or talons which should be made to synergise with the spammable.

Look at stamplar and stamnb both have a spammable that perfectly synergises with the class along with other stamina based skills and that's what makes them fun to play and strong.

I'm pretty sure I've been spammed by uppercut, reverse slash, twin slashes, snipe, and poison arrow in PVP. So- they are worth mentioning. I think the AOE poison class abilities would be more in line with what the devs would allow. A stamina whip would have the potential of putting stamDKs over-the-top in PVP. (Or, sadly, just on par with NBs and Sorcs.) If the devs are willing to give stamDKs a spammable whip... then they need to offer mDKs a class execute.

Look at it this way: What's the excuse for mDKs to NOT have an execute? Everyone says "Because mDKs have a powerful spammable and Leap!" Yet stamDKs want a powerful spammable, leap, AND access to three stamina-based executes..?

Again- I don't have a problem with stamDKs having a stamina whip (because it'll put them on par with NBs and Sorcs)… but IF stamDKs get a stamina whip, then mDKs need an execute. Maybe then we'll both be able to compete with NBs and Sorcs.

Why does magdk need an execute and what does it have to do with stamdk being so utter trash that it's non existant atm?

If you play stamdk you know that uppercut is a useless piece of mr hanky, everytime i see someone trying to uppercut me i hear him screaming: howdyhoooo followed by the sound it makes when sh't hits a your toilet when i simply walk through them or they hit me but the damage is too low to be scary.

In order to use reverse slice you have to bring your enemy to less than 50% health, well you won't do that just by applying some dots like poison injection and rending slashes (which isn't possible to do in the first place as one is DW, indem is a Bow skill and last is 2h)

Snipe is the weakest spammable in the game when it comes to 1v1s even worse when your enemy isn't a target dummy


This discussion is about stamdk and a stamwhip, magdk and it's problems shouldn't be a factor if we decide wether stamdk keeps being useless or can reach the same viability magdk has which is in fact in the area of magnbs, magsorcs and stamwarden.

Also i don't know why magdk needs an execute, I've never felt the need for it. When i hop on my magdk i rather feel that i have too many skills i want to use rather than have too many flex spots

There are StamDKs all over Cyrodiil. And let me get this straight- you want a stam-based whip to spam, with a powerful leap, AND to be able to finish people off with Executioner/Steel Tornado?

And yet you think that mDKs shouldn't get an execute? Talk about the hypocrisy. At least I'm willing to compromise. Give us both the stam whip and mag-based execute.

Quantum_V

Hey everyone!

As some of you guys already know, our next meeting with ZoS is scheduled to happen pretty soon! We will be looking at class pain points specifically, for PvE and PvP. I'm working on a google doc which already has most of the pain points gathered for the first meeting that weren't addressed yet, but even if it was mentioned before, feel free to emphasize that same pain point.

With that said, It'd be amazing if the feedback given in this forum post could follow a more objective layout throughout this next week to make gathering information from you guys a lot more efficient. So lets try to present major pain points in a format with bulletpoints or concise separate paragraphs, like we did for meeting 1 and 2. Say 1-3 major pain points (or more obviously).

Also, ZoS said that they are specifically looking for pain points and not for solutions - so while I'm aware that we have tons of potentially great ideas - this is not what they're looking for in this next meeting.

As just an example, something like 'stamDK wants/needs a stamwhip' is not necessarily what we're looking for this time around. You could say 'StamDK barely feels like a stamDK at all without some more class skills, making it simply unfun to play'. Obivously this is just an example to show a simple format that would efficiently allow us to gather feedback!

Thanks everyone for your efforts! Hopefully we can promote some more change for the near future!

TrinityBreaker

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey everyone!

As some of you guys already know, our next meeting with ZoS is scheduled to happen pretty soon! We will be looking at class pain points specifically, for PvE and PvP. I'm working on a google doc which already has most of the pain points gathered for the first meeting that weren't addressed yet, but even if it was mentioned before, feel free to emphasize that same pain point.

With that said, It'd be amazing if the feedback given in this forum post could follow a more objective layout throughout this next week to make gathering information from you guys a lot more efficient. So lets try to present major pain points in a format with bulletpoints or concise separate paragraphs, like we did for meeting 1 and 2. Say 1-3 major pain points (or more obviously).

Also, ZoS said that they are specifically looking for pain points and not for solutions - so while I'm aware that we have tons of potentially great ideas - this is not what they're looking for in this next meeting.

As just an example, something like 'stamDK wants/needs a stamwhip' is not necessarily what we're looking for this time around. You could say 'StamDK barely feels like a stamDK at all without some more class skills, making it simply unfun to play'. Obivously this is just an example to show a simple format that would efficiently allow us to gather feedback!

Thanks everyone for your efforts! Hopefully we can promote some more change for the near future!

Akatosh bless your soul, my friend. You may yet lead the DK army out of this dark forest.

Skoomah

@Quantum_V

Thanks bro!

Pain Points (for Stam DK)
1. Lack of class based offensive capability that uses stamina. Leap, Claw, Breadth are our only options. Not spammable and doesn’t apply enough pressure because it is a dot or doesn’t do enough damage overall.

2. Lack of direct damage options. Offensive capability is dot based and direct damage options like dizzy swing are hard to land, and imbue weapon is not really a spammable, you still gotta click twice. Sword and Board Heroic Strike doesn’t do enough damage and the animation is just as clunky as dizzy swing. This forces Stam DKs into a dot playstyle to be effective.

3. Not tanky enough to role play as a barbarian, meaning a heavy armor wearing brute that can take a punch and then walk up to you and smash your face in with a hammer. The increase in overall power level and damage output makes getting blown up from range a frequent occurance. If you have 2 or more range characters around, it’s hard to last long enough to take them on without having to make use line of sight almost immediately into the fight.

Healing, mobility, and sustain I think are in a good spot.

Kilandros

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey everyone!

As some of you guys already know, our next meeting with ZoS is scheduled to happen pretty soon! We will be looking at class pain points specifically, for PvE and PvP. I'm working on a google doc which already has most of the pain points gathered for the first meeting that weren't addressed yet, but even if it was mentioned before, feel free to emphasize that same pain point.

With that said, It'd be amazing if the feedback given in this forum post could follow a more objective layout throughout this next week to make gathering information from you guys a lot more efficient. So lets try to present major pain points in a format with bulletpoints or concise separate paragraphs, like we did for meeting 1 and 2. Say 1-3 major pain points (or more obviously).

Also, ZoS said that they are specifically looking for pain points and not for solutions - so while I'm aware that we have tons of potentially great ideas - this is not what they're looking for in this next meeting.

As just an example, something like 'stamDK wants/needs a stamwhip' is not necessarily what we're looking for this time around. You could say 'StamDK barely feels like a stamDK at all without some more class skills, making it simply unfun to play'. Obivously this is just an example to show a simple format that would efficiently allow us to gather feedback!

Thanks everyone for your efforts! Hopefully we can promote some more change for the near future!

Hey @Quantum_V brochacho. For me, from a mDK PvP perspective, the biggest pain points currently are:

1: Resource sustain. I still find that mDK has a considerably more difficult time sustaining its magicka compared to other classes. Part of the problem is, I believe, that Battle Roar does not restore enough primary resources. The other part is that many of our go-to abilities are very expensive to cast.

2: Skill range is inconsistent across many abilities. Our single-target melee abilities like Flame Lash, Burning Embers, and Burning Breath (Yes it's AoE but it's technically a cone) each have different ranges, 8m, 5m, and 10m, respectively. Then our AoEs like Talons (6m) and Inhale (8m) and Leap (6.5m), Cinder Storm (5m), and Magma Shell (??? seems like <5m) also have completely different ranges. This makes being a melee player VERY frustrating. It sucks being in range with Whip but not being able to cast Embers because an enemy is just out of range at 6-7m.

3: Still pigeonholed into blocking as our primary defense : This is probably the biggest pain point for me. I'm sick of being forced to run S/B in solo/smallscale settings. I know people have compiled some Destro/Destro or Destro/Resto highlight reels, but everyone who seriously plays mDK knows that those builds are simply outclassed by S/B + SB/Destro/Resto builds. DK needs more active defense (e.g., not just moar healing).

EDIT 4: Outdated Passives. Passives like Searing Heat and Elder Dragon, just to name a couple, do virtually nothing for most builds. I'd like to see DK's class passives better define the class (e.g., like Battle Roar does) instead of just a skill point sink.

Last one I promise 5: Effectiveness of DoTs in PvP. mDKs DoTs really aren't very threatening in PvP in the same way Bleeds can be.

BohnT

Pain points:
1. Stamdks don't have any synergy inside their toolkit both to a lack of stamina based skills that work well together with the whole class and only with the class.
Playing a stamdk feels like going to a Restaurant that only buys the leftovers from good Restaurants from the day before and then tries to combine the different dishes to one which ends up like this:
Grilled fish with vegetables but the fish already got eaten by the guy in the better Restaurant but at least the vegetables kinda taste like the fish served with a mixture of 3 wines because that was the only way to fill up the glas completely.
You end up never going back to that Restaurant and everytime you see someone entering it, while you are in one of the good Restaurants that serve perfectly created menus, you start laughing because you have everything they get but so much better and even more for the same price.

What i want to say is stamdk isn't fun to play and it's not viable to play because everything you bring to the table can be better used by others and you don't bring anything unique because you simply have no own unique skills to use.

Elder Dragon is a passive that you won't notice if you forgot to put points into it, i guess that's all you have to say.

Stamdk and Magdk being rather useless in PvE as they don't provide buffs which the tank doesn't already give and their damage is too low nowadays to get picked.


Magma shell and Corrosive Armor being ultimates almost no one ever uses as they counteract how heavy hits works in this game, they aren't stacked for a rather long period of time rather than coming every once in a while meaning you waste lots of uptime when no heavy hits come in and then don't have the ultimate ready because it's so costly when the next one comes in that you want to negate with the ult.

Stamdk and lack of stamina morphs that set the class apart from others

JXNwarrior

@Quantum_V Thanks for the update and the efforts of the class reps. My 3 pain points are:

1. Outdated passives - Many of these passives have become obsolete over the last year or more (ex. helping hands, battle roar) which has stripped the DK identity away slowly. Some are just plain useless (Elder Dragon, World in Ruin *for stam*). Updating some of these passives into relevancy for the current atmosphere of the game would polish the edges for DK and provide opportunity to add a more class synergistic feel to DK (stam especially).

2. Sustain - This was addressed in the Combustion update, but as it stands, the passive is not useful in PvP. Issues such as racial resistances preventing the passive altogether and the low chance to proc status effects with class dots kill the idea of the sustain being tied to status effects. I love the idea however, and if it got changed to simply APPLYING flame/poison DoT's it would mostly solve both the sustain issue and part of the identity issue by rewarding use of the intended damage type. Also reducing magicka utility costs by a small amount (5-10%) would help both mag and stam sustain issues.

3. Bugs - Simply put, Leap missing as a ground based ult instead of target based, Spiked Armor damage return acting as direct damage for Eclipse procs but not direct damage for Bloodthorn procs, wonky hitbox for Searing Strike and Fiery Breath

Honorable mention: wings reflect being per person and reflecting associated secondary effects. 2s immunity seems fine with the other snare nerfs

BohnT

Savos_Saren wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

All of the mentioned spammables don't synergise at all with stamdk even heroic slash doesn't give you much (a whooping 46 mag and stam regen is all you get) while most skills you mentioned are so bad that no one would ever consider slotting them as a spammable.

Stamdk needs both a stamina spammable, name it what you want, stamwhip being the most prominent example AND more stamina skills like deep breath or talons which should be made to synergise with the spammable.

Look at stamplar and stamnb both have a spammable that perfectly synergises with the class along with other stamina based skills and that's what makes them fun to play and strong.

I'm pretty sure I've been spammed by uppercut, reverse slash, twin slashes, snipe, and poison arrow in PVP. So- they are worth mentioning. I think the AOE poison class abilities would be more in line with what the devs would allow. A stamina whip would have the potential of putting stamDKs over-the-top in PVP. (Or, sadly, just on par with NBs and Sorcs.) If the devs are willing to give stamDKs a spammable whip... then they need to offer mDKs a class execute.

Look at it this way: What's the excuse for mDKs to NOT have an execute? Everyone says "Because mDKs have a powerful spammable and Leap!" Yet stamDKs want a powerful spammable, leap, AND access to three stamina-based executes..?

Again- I don't have a problem with stamDKs having a stamina whip (because it'll put them on par with NBs and Sorcs)… but IF stamDKs get a stamina whip, then mDKs need an execute. Maybe then we'll both be able to compete with NBs and Sorcs.

Why does magdk need an execute and what does it have to do with stamdk being so utter trash that it's non existant atm?

If you play stamdk you know that uppercut is a useless piece of mr hanky, everytime i see someone trying to uppercut me i hear him screaming: howdyhoooo followed by the sound it makes when sh't hits a your toilet when i simply walk through them or they hit me but the damage is too low to be scary.

In order to use reverse slice you have to bring your enemy to less than 50% health, well you won't do that just by applying some dots like poison injection and rending slashes (which isn't possible to do in the first place as one is DW, indem is a Bow skill and last is 2h)

Snipe is the weakest spammable in the game when it comes to 1v1s even worse when your enemy isn't a target dummy


This discussion is about stamdk and a stamwhip, magdk and it's problems shouldn't be a factor if we decide wether stamdk keeps being useless or can reach the same viability magdk has which is in fact in the area of magnbs, magsorcs and stamwarden.

Also i don't know why magdk needs an execute, I've never felt the need for it. When i hop on my magdk i rather feel that i have too many skills i want to use rather than have too many flex spots

There are StamDKs all over Cyrodiil. And let me get this straight- you want a stam-based whip to spam, with a powerful leap, AND to be able to finish people off with Executioner/Steel Tornado?

And yet you think that mDKs shouldn't get an execute? Talk about the hypocrisy. At least I'm willing to compromise. Give us both the stam whip and mag-based execute.

No there aren't, at least any old stamdk main has stopped playing stamdk a long time ago that's what the situation is on Pc EU, if you ask what they advice to play on stamdk they tell you to play anything else and never consider going back to stamdk again.

Leap already gets replaced with DBoS because it's unreliable and worse.
As @Asmael pointed out it doesn't matter if stamdk just gets a whip it won't make the class good enough alone.


I didn't said i don't want magdk to get an execute.i said i never felt the need for one with the tools magdk offers. Give magdk an execute i don't care but i don't see me using it just like i don't see myself using stamdk every again until some massive changes are introduced, something i can't say about any other class right now.

ak_pvp

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

This discussion is about stamdk and a stamwhip, magdk and it's problems shouldn't be a factor if we decide wether stamdk keeps being useless or can reach the same viability magdk has which is in fact in the area of magnbs, magsorcs and stamwarden.

Also i don't know why magdk needs an execute, I've never felt the need for it. When i hop on my magdk i rather feel that i have too many skills i want to use rather than have too many flex spots

I mean, yeah sure spammable, imo not the top priority because despite not being amazing heroic slash does cut it. I'd rather poison talons and stam poison deep breath with a 2s empower on direct damage per enemies drained to mirror the mag regen of draw essence.

But MagDK anywhere near magsorc/NB/stamden, top kek.

boombazookajd

leandro.800ub17_ESO wrote: »

My top two pain points

1-As Magika DK no execute skill
2- Sustain

this. We should have access to an execute skill and for the love of god give us some magicka return.

John_Falstaff

Do I understand it right that general stamina-related pain points are vocalized elsewhere and are also being discussed by reps and ZOS? Hm-m, DK-specific pain points, off the top of my head (with the caveat that I'm damage dealer), are:

* Outdated passives, sometimes buffing one skill or absolutely irrelevant or niche. Recent attempt to improve sustain is hit or miss, since the buff is tied to inconsistently triggered status effects.
* Same with skills; a lot of skills feel underwhelming, and most damaging skills are taken from weapon or guild lines, which makes the class generic.
* Bad sustain, often requiring heavy attacks in the rotation; nerf to heavy attacks indirectly hurts the class and renders skills like Molten Armaments less meaningful.
* Sustain is tied to the use of ultimate, which promotes mechanical use of ultimate as a device to regain resources (and penalizes creative, tactical use suggested by combat situation).
* Lack of burst heal (dragon blood is very, very weak, so the only option is Vigor if one doesn't want to resort to 2H) and lack of potential for builds with good burst damage (DK is a 'slow DoT class' in everyone's eyes) penalizes the class in variety of content (like Maelstrom arena or any content with a lot of interruptions for mechanics - boss only vulnerable for short periods of time, or dangerous priority targets that need to be bursted down fast) and makes it niche.
* Noxious Breath has a bug that prevents it from hitting close-range targets.

Toc de Malsvi

Pain points:

- Poor sustain overall.
- High cost Draconic Power and Earthen Heart skills, best utility skills are largely useless for stam due to cost.
- Stamina Class Dots feel weak in comparison to Bleeds, yet class is built around Class Dots while Bleeds are available to everyone.
- Outdated class passives that offer little to no synergy or are virtually useless.
- Two single target class based CC's serve to arbitrarily reduce the capabilities of each other in order to differentiate. While also reducing skill line potential as two skills are tied up in CC's.
- Molten Weapons and morphs offer redundant/irrelevant buffs for the cost of the skills.

IZZEFlameLash

Sustain is a pain and DKs have too slow of ultgen to make Battle Roar as a useful sustain tool as is. NBs and Wardens generate a lot more ults than DKs in general. NBs, you can argue that it requires some condition to be met to generate ult at its fastest.

Better defense tool. It would be great if DKs can actually hold and dig in. But as is, Bleed + Defile + Sload's tears them apart at melee.

Useless skills of the old like passives. Standard of Might need to be useful, Shifting Standard also isn't so great for general DK purposes. Too expensive to keep them in. It should be something to fear like Permafrost and Destro ult.

Carbonised

Carbonised wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

1. Class skill cost. We have been saying this forever...every skill costs more than other class equivalents.

Dottzgaming wrote: »

Point 1 (PvE): Eruption/Cinder Storm. The skill, for what it costs, is not that good. It needs to either cost less or deal more damage/healing to be more consistent with its cost.

Point 2 (PvP): Wings. Projectiles should be per person, or the number of projectiles we can reflect should be increased. Also, the snare removal morph should grant ~2 seconds of snare immunity to prevent instant snare reapplication.

Blobsky wrote: »

1. Reflecting with wings should also reflect status effects (e.g. snipe should major defile the oponent rather than yourself still.
2. Reflect should be 4 projectiles per person, not per cast as it is instantly down outnumbered otherwise.
3. Wings cost should be ibncreased 10% if those go through.

Xvorg wrote: »

Ok, any DK suffers from 2 big issues that have not been updated until since 2014

1- Passives: most DK passives are bad, and some of them are nearly useless. Things like World in ruin or Searing heat are too situational and favor only one playing style: HA S/B DK. There were some good passives that got a nerf hammer without a clear reason, like helping hands and Battle Roar and which are quite meh nowadays. But there's one passive above all of them that is clearly an insult to all DKs in ESO: Elder Dragon. It's a health recovery passive in a class that needs to go Vamp to get extra movility. I mean, seriously? Extra health recovery for sloting tanking skills? C'mon. You can pass from that passive, saving 2 skill points and nothing, really nothing is gonna change. You will still be a vampire with reduced health recovery. So please, have a look at that.

2- The second problem has to do with the dmg oriented line, Ardent Flame: Ardent flame is the worst dmg line in the game. Only has 2 viable skills (Whip and SS) and none of them benefits from the only passive that increases dmg (WiR). Ok, Searing heat increases Searing strike dmg... a 3%. When you compare that number to the amount of dmg any sorc gets for any physical or lightning dmg, you feel you have been fooled. And that dmg increase does not affect your main spammable (which has a morph that increases the dmg of your ardent flame skills in 100 spell/wpn dmg, which is nothing). That was ok before One Tamriel when Dks had access to a set like old Silks of the Sun, which increased your flame dmg a 5%. On top of that, half of the passives only work with skills in the line, so no chance to increase extra dmg with other skills.

Still_Mind wrote: »

DK is positioned as a stand-your-ground class with limited mobility, but formidable defenses and control, damage reflection.

What do we have now, after massive redesigning and a large amounts of direct and indirect nerfs is a rather clumsy melee mage with limited mobility, mediocre damage mitigation, decent control, decent pressure and good (if somewhat situational) "healing through damage" mechanics.

Damage reflection? Neutered by the increased number of unreflectable skills in PvP, unreflectable bosses in PvE.

Damage mitigation? Nothing most other classes don't have, aside the Earthen Heart Ultimate, which is often too expensive to be useful, and, frankly, often just delays the inevitable. Shield Wall is cheaper and feels more useful overall. Iron Skin and spell resist are a nice bonus, but don't make or break a playstyle.

Rivers of fire and blood through stacked Standard, Eruprion, Flames of Oblivion, Inhale and Talons? Poof, gone. FoO is now a buff and a cheap turret. Eruption is an inefficient ground DoT or heal, Standard isn't often good enough to justify its cost.

DKs used to be a perpetuum mobile in thick battle due to dynamic Ultimate generation and Battle Roar. Used to be OP, but nerfing both resulted in sustain issues, and I don't feel encouraged to get into the thick of the fight as a DK anymore.

To summarise: DKs were OP, but nerfs killed their class identity, and I feel like playing a clumsy generic melee character with fire-themed visuals.

2) Bad passives, many skills are outdated, or need redesign.

I look at DK passives, then Sorc passives, then NB passives, then Warden passives and sigh, thinking that probably only Templars have them as bleak and unimpressive as DKs.

As for the skills-many feel like their concept is raw, or not up to date with current game dynamics.

A few examples:

Our resist buff skill essentially just buffs resists in case of stam build, and does unimpressive damage for a mage build, plus some healing received bonus from passives that could be triggered by another skill. Stamsorcs, for one, have an impressive PBAOE DoT (what FoO should be, essentially) on their buff, Wardens have the super-sweet Minor Protection, NBs have their resists buffed pretty much passively by using rotational skills.

Molten Weapons and its morphs needs to be more defined in terms of stam/magicka identity, possibly grant additional effects to heavy attacks, or even convert physical damage to magical for sword and board MDKs.

Current iteration of Eruption makes me shed bitter tears. Scrap the poor man's lightning flood/healing springs and give it useful buffs/debuffs such as evasion, minor protection,
minor resolve, minor fracture, minor defile-SOMETHING.

Goren wrote: »

2.) Flames of Oblivion
This skill had a great visual effect with flames around the character similar to the sorcerer's hurricane skill and now it's just a floating fire ball. I don't know how this has anything to do with a dragonknight.

Just look at this. The players are literally pinpointing the exact areas where the DK class (I'm highlighting MagDK here) fails to meet expectations, or feels unfinished or hollowed out. Just look at this and you can clearly see the direction in which to go with future DK changes.

Sorry for quoting this long post again, but there is so much in there to take notice of. I'll try and sum it up:

• Class skill cost. DK class skills cost more than other classes. Why?
• Eruption. The skill is not good, damage too low for the cost. "Poor man's lightning flood". Needs some useful buffs/debuffs in the AOE.
• Wings. Don't reflect status effects. Wings easily broken through versus more players and light attack spam.
• And the really big one: Outdated and lackluster passives. Elder dragon useless, Searing Heat and World in Ruin only apply to very few skills. Other classes get a flat 5 % damage to physical/shock and 2 % weapon/spell power per skill slotted, DKs get 2 class dots ticking for 2 seconds longer (lol) and 6 % added damage to ONE class skill (engulfing) that isn't even used for anything other than the debuff.
• Class identity, MagDK: "DK is positioned as a stand-your-ground class with limited mobility, but formidable defenses and control, damage reflection.
  What do we have now, after massive redesigning and a large amounts of direct and indirect nerfs is a rather clumsy melee mage with limited mobility, mediocre damage mitigation, decent control, decent pressure and good (if somewhat situational) "healing through damage" mechanics." What does the MagDK "win" by being forced into melee? Compared to MagNB, MagSorc? What are the benefits to outweigh the obvious drawback? "To summarise: DKs were OP, but nerfs killed their class identity, and I feel like playing a clumsy generic melee character with fire-themed visuals."
• Engulfing and Embers are way too difficult to apply in PvP, even in melee range. Players move around you and jump around, and the Engulfing and Embers just keeps missing. Different melee ranges to all the DK skills doesn't help either. And speaking of PvP, dodgeable whip proc that takes many steps to set up (first CC, then flame lash, then power) makes for a combo that is easy to avoid or break, and then you can simply dodge the power lash in the end after all.
• Flames of Oblivion/Inferno. Oh boy. Lackluster feel to the skill, doesn't feel powerful in any way, only useful in 1v1 PvP scenario. Gone from a huge AoE effect to a tiny, floating fireball that fires off now and then.
• Ultigen. DK is the class most dependant on ulti for sustain, but has one of the worst ultigens, literally only getting ulti from earthern heart skills, which are very seldom used. Eruption lasts long and doesn't need to be refreshed, shield is only used in tank setups for the Mending, and Molten weapons again have a long duration. They also have no class reduction to ult costs. Slow ultigen coupled with the highest ult cost in the game for banner (250) as well as highest class skill costs makes for very bad sustain.
  

Ragnarock41

Pain points for stamDK(here we go again):
First of all I have to say that the balance team is in no position to imply that they can solve the problems perfectly on their own and just ask for pain points instead of ideas to solve them.If they were good enough they would realize the problems themselves in my opinion, and I know its not easy to do, but still. They proved this time and time again, and the state of the nightblade meta in both PvP and PvE, state of magsorcs with their no counterplay kit, state of proc sets, are all proving that they simply are not as good as they think. But sure, I'll write down my pain points knowing they will all be ignored like it got ignored for the past year.


1.Lack of stamina morphs that deal damage like a stam spammable, stamina AoE morphs, nothing is there. All we have is two dots that are weak and ignored by cloak, shielded ,or just purged away.

2.Outdated kit and passives. (you know, we used to have 2 great passives, battler roar and helping hands. Not so great anymore.) Having sustain issues on the so called ''sustain class''. Nothing like wearing bone pirate only to have half of your stam regen ticks wasted anyways.

And damage passives? there is none. Except minor brutality. Which I need to pay magicka for access to it.

3. Can't ''hold your whatever'' anymore. Literally. What does block do when bleeds and oblivion damage is everywhere? Even with major mending I just can't outheal despite blocking, and wings costs a ton , doesn't even reflect half of the projectiles.

They'll probably read this thread and decide to buff noxious breath by like %5 thinking it will make a massive difference, maybe even nerfing some sustain because obviously this is still one tamriel and stamDK is bis right? So why am I even trying at this point I do not know.

reiverx

I can only speak for magDK.

1. Sustain. Sustain. Sustain. And without any RNG attached please.
2. An execute would be most welcome. Even if it was DOT based.
3. Convert all those magic abilities to fire abilities. Make it the true quintessential fire class that it's supposed to be.
4. Passives could use a tweak.

tanabata

1. Two outdated skills: non-healing morph of the stonefist (healing one is nice) and molten weapons.
People usually do not need the major buffs from igneous weapons morph (pugs are too incompetent to ask anyway) and i know only one pvp-build, which benefits the most from both buffs. Molten armaments was good before summerset, since summerset patch this skill is very questionable: for pve, to be honest, effect from it completely useless now (it's just allow your heavy attacks do around the same damage as light attacks do), for pvp huge amount of comboes with increased heavy attack damage was nerfed to the ground in the past. But we want to use this skill, to proc helping hands passive, for example, and because it looks cool=)
What about non-healing stonefist morph? Well, it's very fun to throw boulders to the enemy, but we need to have a reason to do this, to have this skill on the bar in pvp and pve. I can see the idea behind this ranged stun/burst, but in reality i know nobody who found the reliable or fun way to use this skill (hey, forum warriors, maybe you know some practices behind stonefist?). I saw this skill being used only by few random group-players (zerglings), thats all.

2. Problems with using the venomous claw/burning embers.
Range is too short even sometimes for pve, I'm not even mentioning the high-mobility fights: on first boss in mol, for example, when during the progression you trying to not kill your mates during the shield phase with positioning, you doing one tiny step away from the boss and just can't use the skill! All other skills on your mag or stam bar are available, but this one (very important one) you just cannot use. So annoying.
In pvp, however, it's not much a problem, in my opinion: if player have a little bit of brains, he will snare/stun the enemy before applying dots, but increasing the range will be good little quality of life change anyway and will not cause the disbalance issues.

3. And, finally, as many of us, i will throw a mudball to the stamina design in general: all stamina classes except for the stamblades and mayyybe stamwardens want to be a little bit more unique, to have more stamina morphs or interesting skills, like flames of oblivion, or to have more access to utility skills and passives to be more useful for the pve and pvp group. Yep, it's nice to have a lot of weapon skills, but people want to feel their class and sometimes, especially in pve, when you have the same backbar skill setup on every stamina class for few years, it can be depressing. Behind every class should be an idea, like good old "defending my house", and I'm not saying that you should in 100% cases follow this idea, game would be too boring then, ofc everyone can play how they want. Nightblades is all about single target burst, stamina and magicka specs doing very good in this role; magsorcs about ranged burst in pvp and aoe in pve, stamsorcs, however, is already questionable due to having only three stamina-oriented morphs, dks about dot pressure and "fight until the end" philosophy and magdk here feels really good, have a lot of unique skills/comboes which can be found only in magicka dk's kit. Stamdk? Well, here your venomous claw and leap (and maybe some magicka-based utility skills), and the rest of your kit can be found in weapon's/guild's skillines which are avaliable for all. And stamdks here not even a such good example, atleast we have pretty good utility. But adding something new, fun and unique for each stamina class, will be welcomed, it will refresh the stamina gameplay and probably will make the game a little bit more fun for all of us=)

PS: and we need few improvements to the noxious breath/engulfing flames usability and leap targeting, due to pvp-combat became much more faster and mobile, but it's more about bugfixing than class improvements imo.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Would be nice if more than 2 of 12 class skills had a stam morph...

BohnT

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Would be nice if more than 2 of 12 class skills had a stam morph...

and also if those 2 skills wouldn't be heavily outperformed by things everyone has access to too...

Savos_Saren

BohnT wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Would be nice if more than 2 of 12 class skills had a stam morph...

and also if those 2 skills wouldn't be heavily outperformed by things everyone has access to too...

-Noxious Breath… it's not nearly as effective as a similar skill, Warden's Subterranean Assault. (****ing nowhere close!)
-Venomous Claws... about as useful as a pat on the back since NBs just cloak through it.
-Take Flight... used to be amazing. Now everyone just prefers Dawnbreaker of Smiting.
-Corrosive Armor... useful for slowly moving into a keep... only to die to siege.

For the Pain Point of Class Identity:

They definitely need Poison Talons and Poison Inhale. Those two abilities will benefit from World in Ruin. Poison Inhale will allow a stamDK to rely less on Vigor. Heck, I'd even say Hardened Armor should be poison while Volatile Armor should be flame damage.

ZOS needs to realize that StamDK's abilities aren't nearly as desirable as other class's stamina abilities.
-On my StamPlar- I slot Bighting Jabs, Power of the Light, and Blinding Javelin 100% of the time. (I prefer DBoS over Cresent Sweep, though.)
-On my StamNB- I slot Killers Blade, Surprise Attack, Ambush, and Incap Strike 100% of the time.
-On my StamSorc- I slot Hurricane, Dark Deal, and Bound Armaments 100% of the time.

As a side note: I also use DW bleeds on my StamPlar and StamSorc… so both rip through any "tankiness" that a DK might have. Which should segue into the Passives Pain Point:

-Elder Dragon is pretty much useless now that bleeds, sloads, and major defile is rampant.
-Combustion and World in Ruin aren't as viable for stamDKs because we don't have a lot of poison skills. (Again, it would be more useful it there were a couple more stamina morphs.)

DKsUnite

@Quantum_V
WARNING: LONG POST

Magicka DK (from a PvP perspective):
1. DKs main form of mitigation is block. So many skills have become unblockable and unreflectable to the point where I am dying with my stamina bar at 80%+. DK has lost so much of it's ability to counter.
- Sorcs once were countered entirely by DK but now the only thing i can reflect is frag and with rune cage being as powerful as it is, it's possible to even land that frag with a nicely timed rune cage. Most of the time they dont even need that frag if a curse crits and you get anywhere near that execute threshold.
- Pretty much all stamina classes run both twin slashes bleed and the twin blade and blunt bleed which can only be countered by shields really because trying to outheal that isn't possible most of the time due to further attacks.
- Templars now have eclipse that destroys DKs because volatile damage return makes you explode if there is any melee pressure on you and the damage is unblockable, not to mention that they have power of the light with isn't effected by block either.
- Wardens have shalks/fissure which hits like a truck and can't be blocked. Birds can't be reflected so it's easy to drain stamina.
- Oblivion damage (specifically Sloads) was meant to destroy unkillable tanks but instead it's destroying the DK because the class is designed in a way that it needs to act like a tank to be viable. It is impossible to outheal bleeds + sloads even when standing in your own cinder storm, with a cauterize up and spending all of your magicka on spamming dragon blood.
- Ranged Magicka NB is the only one that is really still countered strongly by mDK.

2. Resource management, specifically utility/healing skills cost so damn much. DKs have the highest costing abilities combined with one of the worst methods of sustaining. This forces the DK to run very high sustain builds which takes away from it's damage output. Note: All values to follow are without any passives in anything.
- Chains - 3.5k Magicka - Costs around the same as most gap closers but it's utility is lacking to justify it's cost.
For example:
Shield charge costs 3.8k stamina (snb skill line gets a 10% cost reduction which makes it roughly 3.5k) but stuns for 3 seconds at base with increased stun duration or damage shield.
Crit charge costs 3.8k stamina (15% skill line cost reduction which makes it like 3.3k) but guarantees crit damage at base and gives a snare or gives more damage.
Compare this with chains which provides major expedition (which is useless because you have already closed the gap) and then either provides free CC immunity to the enemy if you pull them or 2xempower if you are pulled to them. Now chains wasn't bad before the empower change because that 20% increase meant that you could combo into a leap for massive damage but 40% light attack damage is useless because that doesn't equate to much damage/if you are snb, you probably won't be light attacking much to use it.

- Coag Blood - 4.3k magicka - Costs nearly as much as BoL/Funal Growth however it is a heal that can only be used on ones self.

- Wings - 3.8k magicka - Very expensive for something that gets eaten up far too quickly because of light attacks and doesn't reflect a huge amount of ranged attacks because.... no reason. Compare it to warden shimmering shield which costs 3.2k Magicka (plus 1.8k magicka return if it absorbs 3 projectiles in essence cutting the cost to 1.4k) and will absorb any 3 range attacks, NO EXCEPTIONS, and either will return damage (hence in essence acting as a reflect) or provide major heroism. Now some may argue that reflect is better than absorb because people will kill themselves however, any reflected projectile will work off the penetration values of the DK which makes reflected stamina based attacks (like snipe etc.) hit poorly in comparison to how hard the DK would of got hit.

- Inhale - 4k magicka - Compare with sap essence which costs 3.2k magicka. Draw essence is really the only viable morph because the magicka return reduces it's cost to an acceptable level (if used against multiple people). However, it can't be spammed for healing/damage (unlike sap) because the magicka return is only on the exhale.

- Stonefist - 4k magicka - Not many people use it, mostly because it's useless and inferior to Fossilize but also because of the cost. Compare it to fossilize which costs 2.7k (one of the few cheap DK skills) and will work through dodge roll and block and causes roughly the same damage as stonefist (without the 100% multiplier). Like chains, the utility it has doesn't warrant the cost.

- Obsidian shield - 4k magicka - Shield provided is so terrible it might aswell not be on there at all. The entire purpose for this ability is to gain major mending (which is a very strong buff). In my eyes, 4k magicka for solely major mending isn't enough to justify the cost in my opinion (others may disagree). Compare it to Hardened ward which is a massive shield which probably is larger than all the additional healing you received and only costs 3.5k and needs to be used once whereas the DK would need to spend 4k magicka to get major mending and then additional magicka to heal themselves.

- Ash cloud - 4.6k magicka (YES, it costs more than coag blood!!!!!) - It is a hot that is equivalent to cauterize (from a per second perspective), however, cauterize costs 2.1k. It also forces you to stay stationary to receive the healing unlike cauterize. Ash cloud needs to have it's cost cut in half.

So that's the active skills but I haven't even talked about the passive skills.

- Combustion - I would hazard a guess to say that a majority of the magicka players in pvp are dunmer which makes them immune to burning which mean you don't get any magicka return. If they arent a dunmer, then you need to hope that RNG is on your side because burning is guarenteed. How would it look if we put the cost reduction and recovery increase passives of the other classes behind RNG and against certain opponents, they just wouldn't work at all..... Sounds illogical

- Battle Roar - It was a good concept back when dynamic ulti was around and you could utilize it all the time because high cost ultimates were easier to get back up and use which meant that you get a flood of resources every time. Then dynamic ulti was removed but so were soft caps and battle roar scaled with your resource pool sizes which worked okay but it wasn't the best because ulti uptime was a problem. And now, ulti uptime is still low but the resource return is standardised which means that the amount restored is woefully small compared to ability costs.

Just think about this. Leap takes 41 seconds to be ready (without additional sources of ulti gain). Leap provides 46 * 125 = 5750 magicka returned. This means that 41 seconds of me biding my time has allowed me to cast one of the previously mentioned skills 1 time. Let's even take the DKs cheapest skill, embers. That 41 seconds allows me to cast embers a whole 4 times.

And that's it.... those are the only 2 ways for a mDK to sustain himself. Through a passive that works sometimes or not at all or through waiting for 40 seconds at a minimum.

3. DK is spread too thin.
- High skill cost/poor sustain means that a DK has to wear a sustain set. Because there is so much focus on sustain, you lose out on damage.
- Blocking being the only form of mitigation forces the DK to spend alot of resources into making blocking sustainable. This means CP and if they so wanted, jewellery enchants. This takes away from their ability to manage resources or output more damage. Additionally, you need a decent stamina pool/return which means tri glyphs or certain sets which again takes away from damage.
- DK doesn't have the luxury of stacking into 1 aspect and then relying on a class mechanic to protect them. (eg. NB and their cloak).

BUG LIST:
- Wings not reflecting in some instances, especially in regards to stealth snipers. I clearly have wings up and i get stunned by a lethal arrow from a ganker. Happens daily.
- Engulfing is an aoe however it is dodged all the time by a dodge roll. I clearly see the dodge combat text come up when someone roll dodges as I am about to start the animation.
- Volatile melee return + eclipse = dead DK. Each time a melee attacker is damage by volatile, it procs eclipse.
- Leap doesn't hit unless you are literally next to the enemy. Most of the time they just walk out of it's "range" and no damage registered but the ulti is consumed. I could have sworn sometimes I even see the dodged combat text come up.
- IMPORTANT: When battle spirit reductions came in (IC patch), some skills had their effectiveness affected twice (ie. puncturing sweeps has damage and healing). To remedy this, only 1 of the effects was to be reduced. However, DK seems to have been left out or changes have been made to the skill that have undone this rule. Here is a list of skills that are reduced twice:
- Flame lash - Both the damage and then healing are reduced. Flame lash heal tooltip is ~13k yet in the video you can see the healing is 2428 per tick which is only 7284 healing.

https://youtu.be/-v5YZBnr_ng

- Ferocious Leap - Both the damage and the shield are reduced.

- Magma Shell - Both the damage and the shields are reduced.

TL;DR: Allow us to sustain and mitigate damage!