[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

Adenoma

I think next patch you’re just going to have to alter builds a bit. Durok’s is still really strong. I’ve tested a redguard (orc would be nice for TK synergy) that drops noxious and heroic slash (which hurts a lot to miss out on maim) and reverb. I run master’s S&B with ransack, 5x fury, 5x durok’s back bar, and 2x blood spawn. Resists are over cap a little with a spawn proc and the masters combo makes up a little with the physical resist gain and minor resolve. It sustains your DPS a bit more with the cheaper spammable. For CC I’m running fossilize which has been superb and I’m had no issues sustaining magicka for that, volatile armor, and fragmented shield.

Fossilize gives you a lot of fight control and drops block nicely and makes sure that you’re getting the stamina return and ult gain from earthen heart even when you’re going offensive so you don’t have to waste GCDs trying to pop shield when you’re desperate for a few more resources.

Otherwise, durok’s keeps up defile pretty much 80% of the time on opponents.

Admittedly, the damage is worse than I have on my heritance/fury/vma 2h/spawn build on live against shield stacks where you can’t take advantage of the defile.

The self healing that you maintain while going offensive is very, very pleasant and between keeping vigor rolling you basically have a 1k additional “HoT” from the masters combo.

VierulSquirrel

The low points are the same as the other classes that aren't used.

1. Sustain; people are literally using balance in trials to sustain with DK's even after the status effect update. Perhaps have eruption refund its cost when its full duration runs out.


2. Range play-ability; making proc sets crit in PvE might help so you all don't have to rework the entire class and morphs. However! changing one of the stone fists morphs over to mimic cripple from the magic nightblade. and have it with a key proc chance. such as, when (molten fist)--[new ability name], is cast and burning embers is slotted on the same bar!!!! It will aply burning embers to the target.
As well as changing the clench morph from the destruction staff, have (reach) cost less and deal a bit more DoT. Clench should remain the same since it has the knock back.

Toc de Malsvi

VierulSquirrel wrote: »

The low points are the same as the other classes that aren't used.

1. Sustain; people are literally using balance in trials to sustain with DK's even after the status effect update. Perhaps have eruption refund its cost when its full duration runs out.


2. Range play-ability; making proc sets crit in PvE might help so you all don't have to rework the entire class and morphs. However! changing one of the stone fists morphs over to mimic cripple from the magic nightblade. and have it with a key proc chance. such as, when (molten fist)--[new ability name], is cast and burning embers is slotted on the same bar!!!! It will aply burning embers to the target.
As well as changing the clench morph from the destruction staff, have (reach) cost less and deal a bit more DoT. Clench should remain the same since it has the knock back.

Molten Armaments/Igneous Weapons was a key part of the DKs range support but it has been neutered into irrelevance. This because of DK one shot builds, which NBs can do fine but are somehow unacceptable for DK.

Coolio_Wolfus

Dragonbreath should not need to draw a sheathed weapon since it is a weapon itself, but it should use current anim if a weapon is drawn and a tweaked breath only if not.

As said molten armor and ignious weapons are now a letdown, I would say buff the caster only side and leave the effect/timer on allies bit alone.

Lamiai

Nice long thread with a lot of great info in it, love my fellow DK's! I've only played ManaDK via PvP and some PvE.

1. Reduced cost of skills, as said by others the cost of a basic class skill is very high and means excess thought going into sustain over anything.

2. An execution skill, maybe increase damage by 25% on an existing skill ( Lash or something ) when a player/ NPC is below 25% health

2.1. If you guys are feeling nice, maybe in increase in movement speed in one of the wings morph ( like the Warden skill ), DK's have no escape plan really so this could be a nice touch!

Bobby_V_Rockit

A more stamina friendly damage shield please. A 1210 igneous shield is not quite good

Bobby_V_Rockit

A more stamina friendly damage shield please. A 1210 igneous shield is not quite good. Why is it an “advised ability”?!

ak_pvp

The snare removal needs to be longer, 4s is about right.

2.5s isn't enough on an unchained shuffle on a mobile build, 4k for 2s and a *** reflect definitely isn't. Speaking of, reflect needs looking at too.

Ragnarock41

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

A more stamina friendly damage shield please. A 1210 igneous shield is not quite good. Why is it an “advised ability”?!

fragmented shield is even worse. Its about 1k shield for every 25k hp in PvP, which is pathetic since the shield is supposed to be the main function of the ability. I'd say a cost reduction or increased base value is must have.

brtomkin

I've used wings for a long time but have never noticed if there is a sound when something is reflected... if not, there should be!

IZZEFlameLash

DK needs complete overhaul. As is, they are in limbo state. No class identity. I feel that DPS might be in a decent place though. As is, DKs cannot outsustain any classes of same skill level.
DKs need guaranteed sustain tools such as:

Guaranteed Combustion resource proc with 5 second cooldown.
Some form of faster ultgen than other classes if you don't want to make Combustion's resource proc guarantee or are not willing to move DKs away from ultimate based sustain. DKs are supposed to be played as stand your ground class. 2015 DKs were probably too OP but very much close to how a DK is supposed to be played without infinite Bat spam. DKs should have had Major Heroism instead of Warden as Wardens do not depend on ult based resource management. I mean, NBs also have a lot better ultgen. DKs can use some of that. Maybe then, DKs probably won't have much problem.
Also wings probably need better effects. You could even make it 3 reflects per person for 6 seconds with snare immunity for 2.5 sec. I do not want to depend on Vampirism for a change.

John_Falstaff

I do play stamina DK, and reading the thread is depressive, so many things are spot on. I was wondering what DK is really good at; maybe nothing, at this point.

• Class abilities are poor and don't synergize well with much else, so I find few of them in my rotation (granted, Claw is good, Breath for solo and FOO sometimes - rest are situational).
• Sustain depends on ultimate, and - was mentioned above - we don't even have accelerated ultimate generation, and that's strange since other classes do, while -not- depending on ultimate. Though I don't know if that dependency is a good thing by itself, because...
• Depending on ultimate forces to drop it as soon as it's available (or else take a hit to sustain), not when it actually makes sense from combat situation. Yes, DK may be a 'stand your ground' class, and in someone's mind up there, it's a good idea to make us stand and dish out damage, except...
• ...it's an extremely rigid and limiting modus operandi. New content (ahem, Asylum and Cloudrest) isn't friendly to anything stand-your-ground. One needs to have mobility and range, and I feel that DKs (in fact all melee stamina) are locked out of a big chunk of content in the game because of that. Game doesn't favor such style, so why design a class tailored for it? Even vMA leaderboards for DKs are half-empty, it's enough to just finish no matter how, no matter with which score to get on leaderboards - that should tell something. But surely we should shine at something, damage and survivability maybe? Oh well...
• There is a trend towards equalizing damage of ranged magicka with melee stamina, and it's not offset by anything. Nerfs to NMG and Sunderflame reduced overall stamina damage in groups. New content is built in such a way that real damage for melee takes serious hit, while ranged builds have more opportunities to keep dealing consistent damage while staying in safer zones. Argument was made that Arms of Relequen is a great tool to improve that, but it's ironic that groups that run Cloudrest will be much more friendly to ranged magicka; damage wouldn't be worse, and survivability...
• ...is better. One would think that stand-your-ground class would shine at dealing more damage and remaining survivable. But it's just not the case; there are no stamina shields (something that, along with safe range, makes magicka more survivable), the only shield DK has is laughable (and it's magicka). It's argued that stamina DK's defense is a lot of resources for dodge-rolling - but here lies the problem; it's active defense, one has to stop doing damage and dodge-roll out of the harm's way - it's taxing both in terms of damage penalty, and in terms of skill, compared to magicka that brings up shields and keeps doing damage. I feel myself a liability to healers, and I feel I'm swimming against the current by trying to squeeze out all damage I can to simply justify my usefulness in the team.
• Another argument was made that DKs shine as tanks, and they do to a point, but I think other classes caught up or almost caught up already. There was a sentiment in other thread that "...who needs a healer when you have a warden tank", and I see 3DDs + tank pledge runs in zone chat more and more often. There are great utilities in DKs repertoire (yes, can pop Corrosive Armor while Ra-Kotu is doing his spinning attack, and just stand there without moving out of damage zone), but other classes can perform just as well.

So, I'm not sure where I'm going as things are now. Other classes can do things better and easier than I do. And I like DKs on principle, as lore goes, I enjoy playing DK; I don't want to create a magblade just to be able to run Cloudrest without feeling that I'm being a burden.

BohnT

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

NBrookus

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

This. PVP currently is *entirely* about kiting, mobility and burst, and that is leaving DKs and Templars behind.

Meanwhile they say every class is supposed to be able to heal, tank and dps, but why are DKs still "tanks" and Templars still "healers?"

Xvorg

BohnT wrote: »

Some testing on the pts with the new 'buff' to noxious breath:
i used a high Damage build (38k stam 7.5k wpndmg) and my noxious breath dot hits for the following numbers on a target Skeleton:
Without Points into World in Ruins: 2786 and 4513!
With World in Ruins: 2917 and 4725!

1. that's only an increase of 4.7% (diminishing Returns i guess)
2. if we look at that buff in pvp on an unplayable, unuseable build that's only specced into Damage the Damage increase in pvp will be less than 100 Damage, freaking 100 Damage per tick that's not a buff that's a slap to the face for everyone hoping to see a buff

It's an entire passive on a crappy skill... absolutely garbage change.

If they were going to toucgh WiR they should have done somethig ouside buffing Breath.

I mean, the FB buff is ok, but alone. No need to ruin a passive with that change.

Xvorg

Funny thing? None of us asked for the WiR change. Why did they made this thread if they didn't take any suggestion regarding the skill?

The way Wroebel is managing DK changes is an invitation to leave the game. He gave us something it must have come with the changes to wings last patch, something we begged for months and that was quite obvious which is the CC immunity, and something only he thinks it can help DKs and that no one will ever address as a good idea.

1 passive for 1 skill... that's an insult to your customers intelligence Wroebel... nothing less.

Give Dks the damned stam whip and make it execute on off balance enemies, for Bal's sake!!!

Quantum_V

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

Absolutely, man. Realistically, we can still expect further change - and from our front we will do our best to promote these changes. No promises, of course. I will be bringing recurring issues for DKs and try to pass on the community's perspective.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic, but changes can still happen!

IZZEFlameLash

Quantum_V wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

Absolutely, man. Realisticall,y we can still expect further change - and from our front we will do our best to promote these changes. No promises, of course. I will be bringing recurring issues for DKs and try to pass on the community's perspective.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic, but changes can still happen!

Goodness, I am not optimistic but want some changes. The day we see faster ultgen or any other form of sustain will be the day I will play this game a lot more often.

Gprime31

I would like a Stam option for chains, pve it would help a lot.

reiverx

Quantum_V wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

Absolutely, man. Realistically, we can still expect further change - and from our front we will do our best to promote these changes. No promises, of course. I will be bringing recurring issues for DKs and try to pass on the community's perspective.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic, but changes can still happen!

Well what exactly is the problem? Do they honestly think that everything is fine and dandy, or do they not care because they want to focus on certain other classes?

BohnT

reiverx wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

Absolutely, man. Realistically, we can still expect further change - and from our front we will do our best to promote these changes. No promises, of course. I will be bringing recurring issues for DKs and try to pass on the community's perspective.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic, but changes can still happen!

Well what exactly is the problem? Do they honestly think that everything is fine and dandy, or do they not care because they want to focus on certain other classes?

Well when people asked for snare immunity during Dragon Bones pts, Wrobel said it could make dks too strong so i guess they think they are fine.

*cries in stamdk*

IZZEFlameLash

reiverx wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

Absolutely, man. Realistically, we can still expect further change - and from our front we will do our best to promote these changes. No promises, of course. I will be bringing recurring issues for DKs and try to pass on the community's perspective.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic, but changes can still happen!

Well what exactly is the problem? Do they honestly think that everything is fine and dandy, or do they not care because they want to focus on certain other classes?

I am afraid it is the case of former that they think everything is fine and dandy. They once said so flat out in past ESO Live when they were talking about changes they made because someone asked similar question 2 years or so back.

the_Beard

They probably feel like DK is fine as is. It sucks because from a pvp standpoint, magdk is in a decent spot, and they're probably afraid of making them stronger. But magdk and stamdk are still not wanted as a dps in most trial groups, except for maybe a few guids where score pushing and group composition don't really matter. Nightblade meta has really taken over in that regard.

Sky_WK

the_Beard wrote: »

They probably feel like DK is fine as is. It sucks because from a pvp standpoint, magdk is in a decent spot, and they're probably afraid of making them stronger. But magdk and stamdk are still not wanted as a dps in most groups, except for maybe a few guids where score pushing and group composition don't really matter. Nightblade meta has really taken over in that regard.

Well said.

ak_pvp

BohnT wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

Absolutely, man. Realistically, we can still expect further change - and from our front we will do our best to promote these changes. No promises, of course. I will be bringing recurring issues for DKs and try to pass on the community's perspective.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic, but changes can still happen!

Well what exactly is the problem? Do they honestly think that everything is fine and dandy, or do they not care because they want to focus on certain other classes?

Well when people asked for snare immunity during Dragon Bones pts, Wrobel said it could make dks too strong so i guess they think they are fine.

*cries in stamdk*

That was lulsy. Snare immunity might make DK too strong and mobile, but making the teleport on the best class in the game be able to be placed anywhere is all good.

Fossilize being 12m is too strong, and whip which procs off CC and can be countered needs to be dodgable. (kind of fair, just not as is)
But a 40m unblockable dodgable CC that deals decent damage on a class that can time all that burst to be undodgable and blockable is perfectly fine and only needs a 20% damage reduction.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Sky_WK wrote: »

the_Beard wrote: »

They probably feel like DK is fine as is. It sucks because from a pvp standpoint, magdk is in a decent spot, and they're probably afraid of making them stronger. But magdk and stamdk are still not wanted as a dps in most groups, except for maybe a few guids where score pushing and group composition don't really matter. Nightblade meta has really taken over in that regard.

Well said.

Can you imagine a campaign with Nightblades?

IZZEFlameLash

ak_pvp wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

@Quantum_V ,as we can't expect any further balance changes for DK, neither for magdk in pve nor for stamdk in both PvE and PvP, due to how ZOS told us how they'll handle things with the pts in the future. this time there will be no focus on class balance (again) as there are no specific class threads, as explained by Gina during SS PTS.
But can you still stress during the meeting on friday how bad the situation especially for stamdk currently is and that minor percentage changes for skills and passives won't be enough to make the spec viable.

Absolutely, man. Realistically, we can still expect further change - and from our front we will do our best to promote these changes. No promises, of course. I will be bringing recurring issues for DKs and try to pass on the community's perspective.

I wouldn't be overly optimistic, but changes can still happen!

Well what exactly is the problem? Do they honestly think that everything is fine and dandy, or do they not care because they want to focus on certain other classes?

Well when people asked for snare immunity during Dragon Bones pts, Wrobel said it could make dks too strong so i guess they think they are fine.

*cries in stamdk*

That was lulsy. Snare immunity might make DK too strong and mobile, but making the teleport on the best class in the game be able to be placed anywhere is all good.

Fossilize being 12m is too strong, and whip which procs off CC and can be countered needs to be dodgable. (kind of fair, just not as is) But a 40m unblockable dodgable CC that deals decent damage on a class that can time all that burst to be undodgable and blockable is perfectly fine and only needs a 20% damage reduction.

#OnlyInESO

newtinmpls

1-Revert the unwise and unwieldy change to talons (that it doesn't work half the time is ... not right).

2-See #1

John_Falstaff

What's peculiar, the large upcoming update will only make things worse. The new Balorgh set favors classes with faster ultimate generation (for them it'll provide higher uptimes), and that means - you got it right, it means that nightblade meta is here to stay for long, long time. Someone in ZOS loves nightblades and despises everything else.

reiverx

John_Falstaff wrote: »

What's peculiar, the large upcoming update will only make things worse. The new Balorgh set favors classes with faster ultimate generation (for them it'll provide higher uptimes), and that means - you got it right, it means that nightblade meta is here to stay for long, long time. Someone in ZOS loves nightblades and despises everything else.

When I'm doing vet dungeons on my magDK, I'm always aware that if the other DD is a sorc or NB, they are doing more damage and have way more sustain.

My biggest regret in this game is rolling a magDK as my main. It's hard to give up on it though. Grand Overlord took two years, back when AP wasn't handed out like candy.