[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

NBrookus

- Volatile melee return + eclipse = dead DK. Each time a melee attacker is damage by volatile, it procs eclipse.
- Leap doesn't hit unless you are literally next to the enemy. Most of the time they just walk out of it's "range" and no damage registered but the ulti is consumed. I could have sworn sometimes I even see the dodged combat text come up.
-

I've had Leap dodged and cloaked both several times in the past two days. Outranging is now frequent with swift.

And I've switched to Hardened specifically because Eclipse, however infrequently used, is almost always a death sentence.

Xvorg

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Throwing this out there again for newer viewers:

StamDK:

Choking Talons: Deals poison damage. Synergy deals physical damage.
Deep Breath: Deals poison damage.

(These two skills would help StamDKs gain more buy-in into the class and would benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive! It would help in PVE and PVP.)

MagDK:

Change Stone Fist (and it's morphs) to flame damage. Leave the ability's damage as-is... but add: Dealing damage to an enemy below 25% health deals an extra 250% damage.

MagDK and StamDK:

Change Flames of Oblivion to an AOE that scales off highest resource. Deals either flame damage or poison damage (benefits from World-in-Ruin)

Change Elder Dragon (passive) to: When activating an Elder Dragon skill- you gain one ultimate per enemy hit. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds. (So, the max is 6 extra points every 10 seconds because your skills only hit six people... and that's only if six people are around. So it can't be overly abused if only a couple of people are attacking you.)

This would get rid of the useless "Healing Received" passive and, since it stacks with Mountain's Blessing passive- it'll give us a little more dynamic ultimate regen... all the while- passively increasing both stamina and magic based regen.

I disagree with Choking Talons change. This will leave mDKs who do not run Wizard's Riposte very vulnerable to the damage. I'd rather let stam have Burning Talons. MDKs need that readily accessible Minor Maim to stay alive long enough without being pigeonholed into running Wizard's Riposte.

I don't think it's a bad change at all. I'll just keep the minor maim debuff but making it poison dmg, so you can use it as a stam or magicka DK, the later can take the benefit of recovering stam if it procs the poison status.

Xvorg

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

You can still use it for group utility. My light armor mDK still slots talons on his SnB bar. If they made one version of talons poison- I'd 100% slot it for my stam DK. I usually run in small to large groups in BG/Cyrodiil.

magicka Dk makes actual use of the talons with the whip off-balance synergy and the overal slow kit of mDk works better with talons. I don't think poison talons is a bad idea.(İn fact it would be a lot more useful than the hurr durr stonefist spammable But I think It is not really unique or something critical to stamDk, we are not a control class, not a stand your ground class anymore, not really have any synergies with it, So why give us even more tank tools if we simply don't want to be basic tanks?

sDK needs the good stuff, like poison inhale or a poison morph of volatile armor, which would help a lot with damage output, And while at it both classes could benefit from an improved flames of oblivion... Its in a sad state. Its cheap and cute , I like it, I use it all the time, but still. Its in a kinda weak state compared to what other classes have.

Tired of trying to proc off balance using talons (damn dodge rollers), I decided to give Livewire a shot and use a lit staff. It works quite decent imho. Sometime you can still feel the "stay your ground" feeling when fighting over your blockade of storms. Saddly, you can't go further with dmg or mitigation unless you use WR... but that one got a nerf, so the build will be dead in a couple of days =(

Xvorg

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

You can still use it for group utility. My light armor mDK still slots talons on his SnB bar. If they made one version of talons poison- I'd 100% slot it for my stam DK. I usually run in small to large groups in BG/Cyrodiil.

magicka Dk makes actual use of the talons with the whip off-balance synergy and the overal slow kit of mDk works better with talons. I don't think poison talons is a bad idea.(İn fact it would be a lot more useful than the hurr durr stonefist spammable But I think It is not really unique or something critical to stamDk, we are not a control class, not a stand your ground class anymore, not really have any synergies with it, So why give us even more tank tools if we simply don't want to be basic tanks?

sDK needs the good stuff, like poison inhale or a poison morph of volatile armor, which would help a lot with damage output, And while at it both classes could benefit from an improved flames of oblivion... Its in a sad state. Its cheap and cute , I like it, I use it all the time, but still. Its in a kinda weak state compared to what other classes have.

100% agree on that. We absolutely need a couple of our class AOE skills morphed into stamina-based (poison) skills in order to benefit from World-In-Ruin. Currently, we only have Noxious Breath (which didn't benefit before?) and Corrosive Armor (weak damage).

Sets that cause AOE poison:
Syvarrah's Scales (laughable damage)
Defiler (very slow proc)
Widowmaker (I don't think I've seen this in PVP)
Leeching (the heal is halved in PVP- making this beautiful set useless)
Spawn of Mephala (weak set)

So... only TWO of our skills even benefit from our passive and the sets that should help with the passive need better application toward PVP.

none of them increases AoE poison dmg... The tooltip says "abilities" and in the whole game they are just 4 of them:

1. Breath
2. Corrosive armor (ulti)
3. Acid Spray
4. Trapping webs

Niether poisons, nor single target poison skills... nothing.

Xvorg

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Bobleeswaggen wrote: »

Don't know how many times it can be said on this post: Stamina Dragonknight need a direct damage stam morph. stam whip makes the most sense. I just left a reply in another thread about how high movement speed + swift jewelry means dizzy swing is much less viable. This is a real problem.

That's not the real problem. StamDKs have access to direct damage stamina abilities like 2H (uppercut, cleave, reverse slash), SnB (puncture, low slash), DW (flurry, twin slashes), Bow (snipe, scattershot, poison arrow). It doesn't need a class spammable. It needs class poison AOEs to benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive. (ie: spiked armor, talons, inhale)

To ask for a stamina-based whip is the same to ask for a mDK magicka-based execute. If you want to concede to that- then go ahead.

To your last point, I'm not exactly sure those are very comparable (stam whip = mag execute), because as you pointed out, stam DK has spammable options, just not from class skills. Mag DK, however, does not have access to any execute, either through weapon skills, guild skills, class skills, or world-based skills.

People who want stam whip want it because they feel class identity for stam DK is nonexistent (and they are correct, in my opinion). This is also part of why a lot of people want more stam/poison morphs of DK skills, the other big reason being to benefit from DK class passives, as you also pointed out.

People who want mag DK execute just want an execute. There are no other options for mag executes for DKs, and we have to rely on bloodthirsty jewelry in PvP to achieve a similar effect (and it's not even remotely close to the templar, sorc, or NB executes, which can dramatically turn the tide of a fight in PvP).

All that said, I believe we should have a stam whip and a DK class magicka execute.

We already have Indiana Jones on heavy armor on mag DK... do we want another one? Will that solve the problems with the class?

Imho, no. StamdK will still be a crappy class even with a stam whip, because the main problem of the class (in both version) are the *** passives given to DK

Xvorg

Pain points for stam DK:

1. A class designed to do poison dmg, yet, poison dmg outside the class only appears in the form of some bow skills and Undaunted Trapping webs.
2. A class designed to use block as main defensive mechanism, yet no S/B has any poison dmg morph
3. A class that currently benefits from poison AoE skills, yet there are only 4 of them in the whole game
4. A class that has no poison spammable skill, so it has to rely on wpn dmg skills, which mainly apply physical dmg
5. A class that having poison skills and having extra dmg on poisoned status, fails against 2 races in PvP

Pain Points from mag DK

1. A class that is said needs to rely on its DoT flame dmg skills (which at launch were the strongest DoTs in the game), yet it has to see how bleeds receive no dmg decrease on PvPm making specs as stam sorcs or stamplar better at putting DoTs.
2. A class that having flame skills and having extra dmg on burning status, fails against one race on PvP
3. A class designed to use block as its main defensive mechanism, yet to get extra block it has to be forced to run an ice staff (similar to stam DK and bows)

Pain ponits shared for both specs

1. A class designed to block, yet has no chance to recover stam/mag while blocking. No other defensive mechanism available
2. A class that lacks dmg oriented passives. The best one is WiR and that one increases AoE poison and flame dmg skills a 6%. As a counterpart, Sorcs have 5% extra dmg on all physical and shock based skills (WHY!!!!)
3. A class that has health recover passives only if it slots skills from one line. And the extra health recover is not even meaningful (also affected by defile). As a counterpart, NBs have 15% extra health regen just for being NBs (not to mention the extra stam and extra mag regen)
4. A class that gets extra healing on skills activated (not only slotted, slotted and activated)
5. Iron Skin and Scaled Armor, the "good" passives of the Draconic Power line are way weaker compared to their "equivalent" in the Templar's Aedric Spear line (Spear wall blocks a 15% extra to melee and temps have a 30 mts skill with knokback, while balanced warrior increses the spell resistance in 2640 and also the weapon dmg in a 6%... so 660 extra spell resistance are equivalent to 6% extra wpn dmg)
6. Exaggerated dependance on proc sets to cause burst dmg. No passive associated to crit chance or extra crit dmg.
7. No passive increasing max resources, reducing costs or increasing resource regen besides WiR (which works based on ramdom-mess). Only one active skill that increases stam regen, though it grants the same buff than a pot
8. The only resource recover oriented skills are unreliable. Helping Hands gives stam back on a line full of magicka skills, and Ultis can't be spammed to get the resources from Battle Roar. Also, the resources returned by both skills are easily surpassed by a potion.
9. The class at last feels very clunky. Too many conditions to use its tools (like the power lash proc, or the heal from shattering rocks, or most of the passives), to many nerfs to its identity, too many skills changed, erased or even stolen and given to other skill lines (old molten weapons now is called elemental weapon, not to mention the case of inferno and how it was given to Sorcs). DKs whatever is its specialty at the end, ends up as a bad version of stamden (stam DK) or a bad version of magblade (mDK)

my 2 cents

Carbonised

@DKsUnite

Give this man a cookie, for he hit the nail spot on regarding magDK in PvP.

Integral1900

The passives suck, they lack any feeling of the raw brute force that the dk should embody, its suppoesd to be a fire spewing sledge hammer not some bargain basement poison dribbling nightblade Knock off!

1 More healing or more resilience, a sorc or a nightblade should never be able to out slog a dk

2 more raw power, we are not a crit class, we are a hammer, make igneous weapons boost raw damage, force the enemy to out think or out manoeuvre the big, slow moving brute, power vs speed just like the Roman gladiators

3 give stamina dk back the fire, the poison skills just don’t fit with the dk, we are the inferno come to burn the foe to ash, if you want poison play a nightblade!

ak_pvp

DKsUnite wrote: »

@Quantum_V
WARNING: LONG POST

Magicka DK (from a PvP perspective):
1. DKs main form of mitigation is block. So many skills have become unblockable and unreflectable to the point where I am dying with my stamina bar at 80%+. DK has lost so much of it's ability to counter.
- Sorcs once were countered entirely by DK but now the only thing i can reflect is frag and with rune cage being as powerful as it is, it's possible to even land that frag with a nicely timed rune cage. Most of the time they dont even need that frag if a curse crits and you get anywhere near that execute threshold.
- Pretty much all stamina classes run both twin slashes bleed and the twin blade and blunt bleed which can only be countered by shields really because trying to outheal that isn't possible most of the time due to further attacks.
- Templars now have eclipse that destroys DKs because volatile damage return makes you explode if there is any melee pressure on you and the damage is unblockable, not to mention that they have power of the light with isn't effected by block either.
- Wardens have shalks/fissure which hits like a truck and can't be blocked. Birds can't be reflected so it's easy to drain stamina.
- Oblivion damage (specifically Sloads) was meant to destroy unkillable tanks but instead it's destroying the DK because the class is designed in a way that it needs to act like a tank to be viable. It is impossible to outheal bleeds + sloads even when standing in your own cinder storm, with a cauterize up and spending all of your magicka on spamming dragon blood.
- Ranged Magicka NB is the only one that is really still countered strongly by mDK.

2. Resource management, specifically utility/healing skills cost so damn much. DKs have the highest costing abilities combined with one of the worst methods of sustaining. This forces the DK to run very high sustain builds which takes away from it's damage output. Note: All values to follow are without any passives in anything.
- Chains - 3.5k Magicka - Costs around the same as most gap closers but it's utility is lacking to justify it's cost.
For example:
Shield charge costs 3.8k stamina (snb skill line gets a 10% cost reduction which makes it roughly 3.5k) but stuns for 3 seconds at base with increased stun duration or damage shield.
Crit charge costs 3.8k stamina (15% skill line cost reduction which makes it like 3.3k) but guarantees crit damage at base and gives a snare or gives more damage.
Compare this with chains which provides major expedition (which is useless because you have already closed the gap) and then either provides free CC immunity to the enemy if you pull them or 2xempower if you are pulled to them. Now chains wasn't bad before the empower change because that 20% increase meant that you could combo into a leap for massive damage but 40% light attack damage is useless because that doesn't equate to much damage/if you are snb, you probably won't be light attacking much to use it.

- Coag Blood - 4.3k magicka - Costs nearly as much as BoL/Funal Growth however it is a heal that can only be used on ones self.

- Wings - 3.8k magicka - Very expensive for something that gets eaten up far too quickly because of light attacks and doesn't reflect a huge amount of ranged attacks because.... no reason. Compare it to warden shimmering shield which costs 3.2k Magicka (plus 1.8k magicka return if it absorbs 3 projectiles in essence cutting the cost to 1.4k) and will absorb any 3 range attacks, NO EXCEPTIONS, and either will return damage (hence in essence acting as a reflect) or provide major heroism. Now some may argue that reflect is better than absorb because people will kill themselves however, any reflected projectile will work off the penetration values of the DK which makes reflected stamina based attacks (like snipe etc.) hit poorly in comparison to how hard the DK would of got hit.

- Inhale - 4k magicka - Compare with sap essence which costs 3.2k magicka. Draw essence is really the only viable morph because the magicka return reduces it's cost to an acceptable level (if used against multiple people). However, it can't be spammed for healing/damage (unlike sap) because the magicka return is only on the exhale.

- Stonefist - 4k magicka - Not many people use it, mostly because it's useless and inferior to Fossilize but also because of the cost. Compare it to fossilize which costs 2.7k (one of the few cheap DK skills) and will work through dodge roll and block and causes roughly the same damage as stonefist (without the 100% multiplier). Like chains, the utility it has doesn't warrant the cost.

- Obsidian shield - 4k magicka - Shield provided is so terrible it might aswell not be on there at all. The entire purpose for this ability is to gain major mending (which is a very strong buff). In my eyes, 4k magicka for solely major mending isn't enough to justify the cost in my opinion (others may disagree). Compare it to Hardened ward which is a massive shield which probably is larger than all the additional healing you received and only costs 3.5k and needs to be used once whereas the DK would need to spend 4k magicka to get major mending and then additional magicka to heal themselves.

- Ash cloud - 4.6k magicka (YES, it costs more than coag blood!!!!!) - It is a hot that is equivalent to cauterize (from a per second perspective), however, cauterize costs 2.1k. It also forces you to stay stationary to receive the healing unlike cauterize. Ash cloud needs to have it's cost cut in half.

So that's the active skills but I haven't even talked about the passive skills.

- Combustion - I would hazard a guess to say that a majority of the magicka players in pvp are dunmer which makes them immune to burning which mean you don't get any magicka return. If they arent a dunmer, then you need to hope that RNG is on your side because burning is guarenteed. How would it look if we put the cost reduction and recovery increase passives of the other classes behind RNG and against certain opponents, they just wouldn't work at all..... Sounds illogical

- Battle Roar - It was a good concept back when dynamic ulti was around and you could utilize it all the time because high cost ultimates were easier to get back up and use which meant that you get a flood of resources every time. Then dynamic ulti was removed but so were soft caps and battle roar scaled with your resource pool sizes which worked okay but it wasn't the best because ulti uptime was a problem. And now, ulti uptime is still low but the resource return is standardised which means that the amount restored is woefully small compared to ability costs.

Just think about this. Leap takes 41 seconds to be ready (without additional sources of ulti gain). Leap provides 46 * 125 = 5750 magicka returned. This means that 41 seconds of me biding my time has allowed me to cast one of the previously mentioned skills 1 time. Let's even take the DKs cheapest skill, embers. That 41 seconds allows me to cast embers a whole 4 times.

And that's it.... those are the only 2 ways for a mDK to sustain himself. Through a passive that works sometimes or not at all or through waiting for 40 seconds at a minimum.

3. DK is spread too thin.
- High skill cost/poor sustain means that a DK has to wear a sustain set. Because there is so much focus on sustain, you lose out on damage.
- Blocking being the only form of mitigation forces the DK to spend alot of resources into making blocking sustainable. This means CP and if they so wanted, jewellery enchants. This takes away from their ability to manage resources or output more damage. Additionally, you need a decent stamina pool/return which means tri glyphs or certain sets which again takes away from damage.
- DK doesn't have the luxury of stacking into 1 aspect and then relying on a class mechanic to protect them. (eg. NB and their cloak).

BUG LIST:
- Wings not reflecting in some instances, especially in regards to stealth snipers. I clearly have wings up and i get stunned by a lethal arrow from a ganker. Happens daily.
- Engulfing is an aoe however it is dodged all the time by a dodge roll. I clearly see the dodge combat text come up when someone roll dodges as I am about to start the animation.
- Volatile melee return + eclipse = dead DK. Each time a melee attacker is damage by volatile, it procs eclipse.
- Leap doesn't hit unless you are literally next to the enemy. Most of the time they just walk out of it's "range" and no damage registered but the ulti is consumed. I could have sworn sometimes I even see the dodged combat text come up.
- IMPORTANT: When battle spirit reductions came in (IC patch), some skills had their effectiveness affected twice (ie. puncturing sweeps has damage and healing). To remedy this, only 1 of the effects was to be reduced. However, DK seems to have been left out or changes have been made to the skill that have undone this rule. Here is a list of skills that are reduced twice:
- Flame lash - Both the damage and then healing are reduced. Flame lash heal tooltip is ~13k yet in the video you can see the healing is 2428 per tick which is only 7284 healing.

https://youtu.be/-v5YZBnr_ng

- Ferocious Leap - Both the damage and the shield are reduced.

- Magma Shell - Both the damage and the shields are reduced.

TL;DR: Allow us to sustain and mitigate damage!

Woo.

All this basically.

Dragonknight isn't a dragonknight anymore, the most popular playstyle is drag-on-knight. Dresses and staves playing like a magblade with worse damage, escape, defense and mobility.

Wings needs, among other things, a solid definition of what it does/doesn't reflect. My vote is: Direct instant ranged damage. This exempts cripple and swarm from warden, keeps other things like fury/POTL/Curse exempt, however adds bird, force pulse and valkyn skoria. (Since it has a direct component it can be cloaked)
This is based of the main feature of the ability, for example, both cripple and reach have a direct and a dot feature, however reach is initially a direct, whilst cripple unmorphed's main feature is a dot.

That way, wings can still be pressured by certain abilities, but direct ones for a solid defensive use are reflected. No more beam vs projectile stuff.

Then the 3 per person thing or infinite for shorter or infinite with limit ideas can be put into play so its better for OW.

IZZEFlameLash

DKsUnite wrote: »

@Quantum_V
WARNING: LONG POST

Magicka DK (from a PvP perspective):
1. DKs main form of mitigation is block. So many skills have become unblockable and unreflectable to the point where I am dying with my stamina bar at 80%+. DK has lost so much of it's ability to counter.
- Sorcs once were countered entirely by DK but now the only thing i can reflect is frag and with rune cage being as powerful as it is, it's possible to even land that frag with a nicely timed rune cage. Most of the time they dont even need that frag if a curse crits and you get anywhere near that execute threshold.
- Pretty much all stamina classes run both twin slashes bleed and the twin blade and blunt bleed which can only be countered by shields really because trying to outheal that isn't possible most of the time due to further attacks.
- Templars now have eclipse that destroys DKs because volatile damage return makes you explode if there is any melee pressure on you and the damage is unblockable, not to mention that they have power of the light with isn't effected by block either.
- Wardens have shalks/fissure which hits like a truck and can't be blocked. Birds can't be reflected so it's easy to drain stamina.
- Oblivion damage (specifically Sloads) was meant to destroy unkillable tanks but instead it's destroying the DK because the class is designed in a way that it needs to act like a tank to be viable. It is impossible to outheal bleeds + sloads even when standing in your own cinder storm, with a cauterize up and spending all of your magicka on spamming dragon blood.
- Ranged Magicka NB is the only one that is really still countered strongly by mDK.

2. Resource management, specifically utility/healing skills cost so damn much. DKs have the highest costing abilities combined with one of the worst methods of sustaining. This forces the DK to run very high sustain builds which takes away from it's damage output. Note: All values to follow are without any passives in anything.
- Chains - 3.5k Magicka - Costs around the same as most gap closers but it's utility is lacking to justify it's cost.
For example:
Shield charge costs 3.8k stamina (snb skill line gets a 10% cost reduction which makes it roughly 3.5k) but stuns for 3 seconds at base with increased stun duration or damage shield.
Crit charge costs 3.8k stamina (15% skill line cost reduction which makes it like 3.3k) but guarantees crit damage at base and gives a snare or gives more damage.
Compare this with chains which provides major expedition (which is useless because you have already closed the gap) and then either provides free CC immunity to the enemy if you pull them or 2xempower if you are pulled to them. Now chains wasn't bad before the empower change because that 20% increase meant that you could combo into a leap for massive damage but 40% light attack damage is useless because that doesn't equate to much damage/if you are snb, you probably won't be light attacking much to use it.

- Coag Blood - 4.3k magicka - Costs nearly as much as BoL/Funal Growth however it is a heal that can only be used on ones self.

- Wings - 3.8k magicka - Very expensive for something that gets eaten up far too quickly because of light attacks and doesn't reflect a huge amount of ranged attacks because.... no reason. Compare it to warden shimmering shield which costs 3.2k Magicka (plus 1.8k magicka return if it absorbs 3 projectiles in essence cutting the cost to 1.4k) and will absorb any 3 range attacks, NO EXCEPTIONS, and either will return damage (hence in essence acting as a reflect) or provide major heroism. Now some may argue that reflect is better than absorb because people will kill themselves however, any reflected projectile will work off the penetration values of the DK which makes reflected stamina based attacks (like snipe etc.) hit poorly in comparison to how hard the DK would of got hit.

- Inhale - 4k magicka - Compare with sap essence which costs 3.2k magicka. Draw essence is really the only viable morph because the magicka return reduces it's cost to an acceptable level (if used against multiple people). However, it can't be spammed for healing/damage (unlike sap) because the magicka return is only on the exhale.

- Stonefist - 4k magicka - Not many people use it, mostly because it's useless and inferior to Fossilize but also because of the cost. Compare it to fossilize which costs 2.7k (one of the few cheap DK skills) and will work through dodge roll and block and causes roughly the same damage as stonefist (without the 100% multiplier). Like chains, the utility it has doesn't warrant the cost.

- Obsidian shield - 4k magicka - Shield provided is so terrible it might aswell not be on there at all. The entire purpose for this ability is to gain major mending (which is a very strong buff). In my eyes, 4k magicka for solely major mending isn't enough to justify the cost in my opinion (others may disagree). Compare it to Hardened ward which is a massive shield which probably is larger than all the additional healing you received and only costs 3.5k and needs to be used once whereas the DK would need to spend 4k magicka to get major mending and then additional magicka to heal themselves.

- Ash cloud - 4.6k magicka (YES, it costs more than coag blood!!!!!) - It is a hot that is equivalent to cauterize (from a per second perspective), however, cauterize costs 2.1k. It also forces you to stay stationary to receive the healing unlike cauterize. Ash cloud needs to have it's cost cut in half.

So that's the active skills but I haven't even talked about the passive skills.

- Combustion - I would hazard a guess to say that a majority of the magicka players in pvp are dunmer which makes them immune to burning which mean you don't get any magicka return. If they arent a dunmer, then you need to hope that RNG is on your side because burning is guarenteed. How would it look if we put the cost reduction and recovery increase passives of the other classes behind RNG and against certain opponents, they just wouldn't work at all..... Sounds illogical

- Battle Roar - It was a good concept back when dynamic ulti was around and you could utilize it all the time because high cost ultimates were easier to get back up and use which meant that you get a flood of resources every time. Then dynamic ulti was removed but so were soft caps and battle roar scaled with your resource pool sizes which worked okay but it wasn't the best because ulti uptime was a problem. And now, ulti uptime is still low but the resource return is standardised which means that the amount restored is woefully small compared to ability costs.

Just think about this. Leap takes 41 seconds to be ready (without additional sources of ulti gain). Leap provides 46 * 125 = 5750 magicka returned. This means that 41 seconds of me biding my time has allowed me to cast one of the previously mentioned skills 1 time. Let's even take the DKs cheapest skill, embers. That 41 seconds allows me to cast embers a whole 4 times.

And that's it.... those are the only 2 ways for a mDK to sustain himself. Through a passive that works sometimes or not at all or through waiting for 40 seconds at a minimum.

3. DK is spread too thin.
- High skill cost/poor sustain means that a DK has to wear a sustain set. Because there is so much focus on sustain, you lose out on damage.
- Blocking being the only form of mitigation forces the DK to spend alot of resources into making blocking sustainable. This means CP and if they so wanted, jewellery enchants. This takes away from their ability to manage resources or output more damage. Additionally, you need a decent stamina pool/return which means tri glyphs or certain sets which again takes away from damage.
- DK doesn't have the luxury of stacking into 1 aspect and then relying on a class mechanic to protect them. (eg. NB and their cloak).

BUG LIST:
- Wings not reflecting in some instances, especially in regards to stealth snipers. I clearly have wings up and i get stunned by a lethal arrow from a ganker. Happens daily.
- Engulfing is an aoe however it is dodged all the time by a dodge roll. I clearly see the dodge combat text come up when someone roll dodges as I am about to start the animation.
- Volatile melee return + eclipse = dead DK. Each time a melee attacker is damage by volatile, it procs eclipse.
- Leap doesn't hit unless you are literally next to the enemy. Most of the time they just walk out of it's "range" and no damage registered but the ulti is consumed. I could have sworn sometimes I even see the dodged combat text come up.
- IMPORTANT: When battle spirit reductions came in (IC patch), some skills had their effectiveness affected twice (ie. puncturing sweeps has damage and healing). To remedy this, only 1 of the effects was to be reduced. However, DK seems to have been left out or changes have been made to the skill that have undone this rule. Here is a list of skills that are reduced twice:
- Flame lash - Both the damage and then healing are reduced. Flame lash heal tooltip is ~13k yet in the video you can see the healing is 2428 per tick which is only 7284 healing.

https://youtu.be/-v5YZBnr_ng

- Ferocious Leap - Both the damage and the shield are reduced.

- Magma Shell - Both the damage and the shields are reduced.

TL;DR: Allow us to sustain and mitigate damage!

I agree with this. DK pain points? EVERYTHING. Build for damage? Sustain suffers. Build for sustain? Damage suffer, which ends in the same end: a dead DK. One is due to 0 sustain to escape, and heal. Other is due to lack of damage allows the pile up of enemies which means more Bleed, more Defile and stacked Sload's. Which drops DK within a minute. I get that you (ZOS and for some reason, forumblades) don't want anyone to mitigate the damage indefinitely. But now, DKs can barely mitigate any damage because of Bleed+Defile combo (and if attacker feels generous, they can throw in Sload's on top of those). Not only does Bleed+Defile and Oblivion damage hurt super tank with 0 resource sustain other than health and 0 damage, but it hurts non-extreme playstyle a lot more.

It is like there's no point in playing DK instead of NB which can simply Cloak away all of those. How is it possible for a NB to mitigate and sustain a lot better than a DK while DK is supposedly (in the words of ZOS), a tank and sustain class? Pointless to play one. Especially now that NBs can just Cloak away Sload's.

Savos_Saren

Xvorg wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

You can still use it for group utility. My light armor mDK still slots talons on his SnB bar. If they made one version of talons poison- I'd 100% slot it for my stam DK. I usually run in small to large groups in BG/Cyrodiil.

magicka Dk makes actual use of the talons with the whip off-balance synergy and the overal slow kit of mDk works better with talons. I don't think poison talons is a bad idea.(İn fact it would be a lot more useful than the hurr durr stonefist spammable But I think It is not really unique or something critical to stamDk, we are not a control class, not a stand your ground class anymore, not really have any synergies with it, So why give us even more tank tools if we simply don't want to be basic tanks?

sDK needs the good stuff, like poison inhale or a poison morph of volatile armor, which would help a lot with damage output, And while at it both classes could benefit from an improved flames of oblivion... Its in a sad state. Its cheap and cute , I like it, I use it all the time, but still. Its in a kinda weak state compared to what other classes have.

100% agree on that. We absolutely need a couple of our class AOE skills morphed into stamina-based (poison) skills in order to benefit from World-In-Ruin. Currently, we only have Noxious Breath (which didn't benefit before?) and Corrosive Armor (weak damage).

Sets that cause AOE poison:
Syvarrah's Scales (laughable damage)
Defiler (very slow proc)
Widowmaker (I don't think I've seen this in PVP)
Leeching (the heal is halved in PVP- making this beautiful set useless)
Spawn of Mephala (weak set)

So... only TWO of our skills even benefit from our passive and the sets that should help with the passive need better application toward PVP.

none of them increases AoE poison dmg... The tooltip says "abilities" and in the whole game they are just 4 of them:

1. Breath
2. Corrosive armor (ulti)
3. Acid Spray
4. Trapping webs

Niether poisons, nor single target poison skills... nothing.

I stand corrected. You're 100% correct. I still think World in Ruin should at least effect "AOE poison/flame damage" if it's not going to give a flat increase to poison or flame damage. Also- this further emphasizes that stamDKs need poison Spiked Armor, Inhale, and Talons.

Xvorg

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

You can still use it for group utility. My light armor mDK still slots talons on his SnB bar. If they made one version of talons poison- I'd 100% slot it for my stam DK. I usually run in small to large groups in BG/Cyrodiil.

magicka Dk makes actual use of the talons with the whip off-balance synergy and the overal slow kit of mDk works better with talons. I don't think poison talons is a bad idea.(İn fact it would be a lot more useful than the hurr durr stonefist spammable But I think It is not really unique or something critical to stamDk, we are not a control class, not a stand your ground class anymore, not really have any synergies with it, So why give us even more tank tools if we simply don't want to be basic tanks?

sDK needs the good stuff, like poison inhale or a poison morph of volatile armor, which would help a lot with damage output, And while at it both classes could benefit from an improved flames of oblivion... Its in a sad state. Its cheap and cute , I like it, I use it all the time, but still. Its in a kinda weak state compared to what other classes have.

100% agree on that. We absolutely need a couple of our class AOE skills morphed into stamina-based (poison) skills in order to benefit from World-In-Ruin. Currently, we only have Noxious Breath (which didn't benefit before?) and Corrosive Armor (weak damage).

Sets that cause AOE poison:
Syvarrah's Scales (laughable damage)
Defiler (very slow proc)
Widowmaker (I don't think I've seen this in PVP)
Leeching (the heal is halved in PVP- making this beautiful set useless)
Spawn of Mephala (weak set)

So... only TWO of our skills even benefit from our passive and the sets that should help with the passive need better application toward PVP.

none of them increases AoE poison dmg... The tooltip says "abilities" and in the whole game they are just 4 of them:

1. Breath
2. Corrosive armor (ulti)
3. Acid Spray
4. Trapping webs

Niether poisons, nor single target poison skills... nothing.

I stand corrected. You're 100% correct. I still think World in Ruin should at least effect "AOE poison/flame damage" if it's not going to give a flat increase to poison or flame damage. Also- this further emphasizes that stamDKs need poison Spiked Armor, Inhale, and Talons.

Well, it's one of the points I wrote above. WiR gives 6% extra dmg to poison and flame AoE abilities. Sorcs get 5% extra dmg to all, physical and shock dmg and a passive that increases wpn and spell dmg on skill slotted... in a DD oriented meta, that's a huge advantage.

werzui

Im kind of new to DK (mDK) but here are 2 of my Painpoints with this Class:

1. Most of its Passives are outdated or just a very bad Version of other Classe's Passive Skills
2. Most Active Skills are just too expansive or seem pretty outdated compared to other classes for example, Molten Weapons + Morphs give major Sorcery and/or Brutality and another Morph gives more Damage to your HA (wich are no more ment for Damage btw).
Sure this skill gives that Damage Buff to Allies but they are likely to have that Buff alredy build in theyr rotation trought pots or skills.
Now compare the Magicka Cost of Molten Weapons + Morphs with the Netch Skill from Wardens wich costs nothing at all + one Morph, "Betty Netch", clenses one debuff.

#this Comparison does not mean to make it like the Warden Netch or just simply reduce cost, but it would make sense to give it another effect together with major sorc or brut to justify that high recource cost.

just my 2 cents there

Savos_Saren

Pain point #348: mDK execute (again)

From just today, alone (right after the Wolf Hunter release)

I've noticed that there are a lot more dodge builds popping up out there. I'm guessing that it's because of the change to Rune Cage and Sloads (they're now dodgable). The setup for our most powerful attack, Power Lash, is getting dodged like a mother [snip]er. The fact that it's a three part setup for Powerlash (talons, flame lash, powerlash) is really putting us at a disadvantage. I keep seeing my Burning Embers and Power Lash being dodged while my Leap and Empowering Chains keep popping up with "miss". Or even better yet- our "DOT based class" constantly has our DOTs being suppressed by Nightblades.

In the mean time- we're getting spammed by 2H Executioner, Mages Fury (and it's passive execute, mind you), Jesus Beams, cowardly poison injections from stealth, and Spin-to-Win Steel Tornados.

With our strongest defense (blocking) being nerfed and major defiles/bleeds/sloads whittling us down- we need to be able to be more on the offense against our opponents.

Can we please finally get a [snip]ing execute?

FloppyTouch

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Pain point #348: mDK execute (again)

From just today, alone (right after the Wolf Hunter release)

I've noticed that there are a lot more dodge builds popping up out there. I'm guessing that it's because of the change to Rune Cage and Sloads (they're now dodgable). The setup for our most powerful attack, Power Lash, is getting dodged like a mother [snip]er. The fact that it's a three part setup for Powerlash (talons, flame lash, powerlash) is really putting us at a disadvantage. I keep seeing my Burning Embers and Power Lash being dodged while my Leap and Empowering Chains keep popping up with "miss". Or even better yet- our "DOT based class" constantly has our DOTs being suppressed by Nightblades.

In the mean time- we're getting spammed by 2H Executioner, Mages Fury (and it's passive execute, mind you), Jesus Beams, cowardly poison injections from stealth, and Spin-to-Win Steel Tornados.

With our strongest defense (blocking) being nerfed and major defiles/bleeds/sloads whittling us down- we need to be able to be more on the offense against our opponents.

Can we please finally get a [snip]ing execute?

They should revert the change to power lash it's stupid to remove it when stam dodge roll is already stupid strong.

ak_pvp

Wings: Its just not enough. Been playing around with it all day.

2s is maybe (but not really) enough for builds who can avoid snares innately. I.e. dodge/cloak from direct damage. Its not enough for a nearly 4k base cost ability on a slower (rightfully) class who can't avoid it. It does an "OK job. But its super taxing on the mag pool.
I much prefer FM since I have the speed whilst on offense, and 2.5k for 8s, 13k for 8s (My own costs) No matter how I try I don't see it being better. Sacrificing a bit of def or damage on one bar is worth it for that amount of extra sustain

The reflect itself is terrible OW. It drops too fast, too much ignores it, and the reflected damage gets diminished based on your own stats. While its fun to kill idiots with their own OL/snipes. In practice it ends up as a shield that is limited to LAs and spammables because it breaks so fast.
Its worse in defense than shuffle (Chance to miss anything dodgable, not just specific projectiles, little longer immunity, and can be unchained. Its worse than harness (similar defense, cheaper cost) and much worse that cloak or shimmering

There needs to be a real sorting on what it does and doesn't reflect. And either buff to how much it does reflect, or a serious change to the snare removal uptime.

LeifErickson

Pain points for magdk in pvp:

1. Total shutdown from defiles. Magdk and stamdk have no way of realistically countering defiles. 30% defiles aren't that bad but if you are fighting with 45% or more in a fight there is almost no way you can win. Mdks have always had bad mobility and whatnot. I never found that to be a problem with a hold your ground class. However defiles have gotten much worse. When I get consistently less heals (2.2k coags) than I did before dragon blood was buffed then something is not right. If I'm gonna play a zero mobility hold your ground class, then I want to be able to actually hold my ground. Defiles don't let me do that.

2. The removal of undodgable power lash. Mdk didn't need an execute in my opinion because power lash got the job done by being undodgable. Now without it it is often very hard to finish off opponents that would have gone down easy with the old power lash. Remove the stun from power lash and make it undodgable again.

3. For the block dks out there: the increase in unblockable ccs that have been introduced and the continuous nerfing of block. Block dks really only needed to worry about fear which was fine. Fossilize would break immediately so it wasn't so bad. But then they changed fossilize to not break from damage and added rune cage and now all of a sudden dks need to deal with 3 ccs from 3 different classes. That and the continuous nerfs of block patch after patch have left block in the worst state it has ever been.



These three things have caused me the most struggle after returning from the game. These are three things I did not have to deal with before that now make playing mdk much more challenging. The ironic thing is that I felt stronger on a mdk before dragon blood was buffed because of the three things I mentioned.

Just thought I would mention that sloads and zaan also make life hard but I feel are lesser pain points than the 3 I mentioned.

Xvorg

ak_pvp wrote: »

Wings: Its just not enough. Been playing around with it all day.

2s is maybe (but not really) enough for builds who can avoid snares innately. I.e. dodge/cloak from direct damage. Its not enough for a nearly 4k base cost ability on a slower (rightfully) class who can't avoid it. It does an "OK job. But its super taxing on the mag pool.
I much prefer FM since I have the speed whilst on offense, and 2.5k for 8s, 13k for 8s (My own costs) No matter how I try I don't see it being better. Sacrificing a bit of def or damage on one bar is worth it for that amount of extra sustain

The reflect itself is terrible OW. It drops too fast, too much ignores it, and the reflected damage gets diminished based on your own stats. While its fun to kill idiots with their own OL/snipes. In practice it ends up as a shield that is limited to LAs and spammables because it breaks so fast.
Its worse in defense than shuffle (Chance to miss anything dodgable, not just specific projectiles, little longer immunity, and can be unchained. Its worse than harness (similar defense, cheaper cost) and much worse that cloak or shimmering

There needs to be a real sorting on what it does and doesn't reflect. And either buff to how much it does reflect, or a serious change to the snare removal uptime.

That reminds me the guy who said sDK should be build towards magicka regen (amberplasm) to use "those wonderful wings"...

I had 0 faith in that change because it is focused on the bad morph of wings. The other one reflects with extra dmg which is quite more useful.

OrphanHelgen

Xvorg wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Wings: Its just not enough. Been playing around with it all day.

2s is maybe (but not really) enough for builds who can avoid snares innately. I.e. dodge/cloak from direct damage. Its not enough for a nearly 4k base cost ability on a slower (rightfully) class who can't avoid it. It does an "OK job. But its super taxing on the mag pool.
I much prefer FM since I have the speed whilst on offense, and 2.5k for 8s, 13k for 8s (My own costs) No matter how I try I don't see it being better. Sacrificing a bit of def or damage on one bar is worth it for that amount of extra sustain

The reflect itself is terrible OW. It drops too fast, too much ignores it, and the reflected damage gets diminished based on your own stats. While its fun to kill idiots with their own OL/snipes. In practice it ends up as a shield that is limited to LAs and spammables because it breaks so fast.
Its worse in defense than shuffle (Chance to miss anything dodgable, not just specific projectiles, little longer immunity, and can be unchained. Its worse than harness (similar defense, cheaper cost) and much worse that cloak or shimmering

There needs to be a real sorting on what it does and doesn't reflect. And either buff to how much it does reflect, or a serious change to the snare removal uptime.

That reminds me the guy who said sDK should be build towards magicka regen (amberplasm) to use "those wonderful wings"...

I had 0 faith in that change because it is focused on the bad morph of wings. The other one reflects with extra dmg which is quite more useful.

The damage also scales of magicka and spell penetration. Doesn't help a stam dk at all. Same is for hardened armor.

gannicus1389

My 2 points will be over STAMINA DK.

1 - Struggle in PvP against heavy healers/shielders and purging in PvP due to class ability only offering DoT damage abilities.

We really only have 2 stamina class abilities. Noxious breath and venomous claw. noxious breath is a little bit weak, and venomous claw is strong, however, both do damage in a very long period of time. This makes the class very weak compared to other stamina classes in PvP because we have no spammable burst/sustain damage. We rely on dyzzing swing/db/leap combo, but that doesn't always secure kills and it is hard to land on mobile and skilled opponents due to dyzzing long cast animation and clumkness to land.

a possible fix would be:
- give us a spammable stamina ability with decent damage or
- make our dots a lot stronger (do same damage in a shorter period of time or make it does the entire damage if purged.

2 - Utility skills are too expensive for Stamina DK (magicka).

we only have 2 stamina converted abilities, which mentioned above is very weak in many scenarios in pvp (heavy heals, purges, too long of time to deal damage in a bursty meta, etc).

furtheremore, our utility skills are somewhat expensive for our demands.

fragmented shield is amazing to make our heals better, but it costs 4k magicka. you use it twice and you no longe rhave any magicka left because you already have to maintain volatile/hardened armor at all times.

if you use reflected scales, you cannot use fragmented shield and vice versa, and no other magicka ability due to the cost of those abilities, heavily hindering stam dk in combat compared to other stamina classes that either have larger options of stamina abilities to use or more cost friendly magicka abilities.

green dragon blood is supposed to be "stamina friendly". but in pvp the heal is a joke and just way too expensive as well.

possible solution: reduce cost and/or convert some abilities to stamina so we have a kit that gives a better identity to dks.

the way it is now it feels like stamina dk is a meme, we can't put damage because our dots can be healed/purged and we have no stamina abilities to do damage on the opponents on thos eterms, and our magicka kit is limited to a few skills that drain our magicka way too fast to have a decent uptime of those skills.

Fruity_Ninja

Pain Points

1). Sustain is poor on DKs

2). Way too high of a resource cost, particularly on utility skills

3). DKs are continuing to lose their ability to stand their ground, that inherent class 'tankiness' that is signature to the class

4). Some of the passive are really outdated and not competitive with other classes

gannicus1389

Not to mention two things completely nailed the coffin of dragon knight (stamina) in this lastupdate:

meele range reduction

and our venomous claw not reapplying snare.

now we are super slow, and peopel can kite us even easier, not to mention is almost impossible to target a stam sorc right now while they do dmg to you by just standing next to you.

IZZEFlameLash

LeifErickson wrote: »

Pain points for magdk in pvp:

1. Total shutdown from defiles. Magdk and stamdk have no way of realistically countering defiles. 30% defiles aren't that bad but if you are fighting with 45% or more in a fight there is almost no way you can win. Mdks have always had bad mobility and whatnot. I never found that to be a problem with a hold your ground class. However defiles have gotten much worse. When I get consistently less heals (2.2k coags) than I did before dragon blood was buffed then something is not right. If I'm gonna play a zero mobility hold your ground class, then I want to be able to actually hold my ground. Defiles don't let me do that.

2. The removal of undodgable power lash. Mdk didn't need an execute in my opinion because power lash got the job done by being undodgable. Now without it it is often very hard to finish off opponents that would have gone down easy with the old power lash. Remove the stun from power lash and make it undodgable again.

3. For the block dks out there: the increase in unblockable ccs that have been introduced and the continuous nerfing of block. Block dks really only needed to worry about fear which was fine. Fossilize would break immediately so it wasn't so bad. But then they changed fossilize to not break from damage and added rune cage and now all of a sudden dks need to deal with 3 ccs from 3 different classes. That and the continuous nerfs of block patch after patch have left block in the worst state it has ever been.



These three things have caused me the most struggle after returning from the game. These are three things I did not have to deal with before that now make playing mdk much more challenging. The ironic thing is that I felt stronger on a mdk before dragon blood was buffed because of the three things I mentioned.

Just thought I would mention that sloads and zaan also make life hard but I feel are lesser pain points than the 3 I mentioned.

My top 2 reasons why playing my favorite class is a pain right there. Powerlash dodgeable extends the fight almost indefinitely and usually end up with me dead due to people bouncing back up and our offensives expend so much that you pretty much don't recover against competent players. Defile just shuts the DK completely and Defile is everywhere. Makes 3.5~4k costing heals into trash at an instance. I mean, I can deal with CCs fine I guess. But those 2 on top of our sustain/slow ultgen, omg... You can manage your resource like a pro, you still can run dry. While other classes can just outsustain with same management.

zParallaxz

So when are we getting the fossilize bug fixed and also engulfing flames or noxious breath reliably hitting instead of having to spam it for to hit.

Xvorg

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Pain points for magdk in pvp:

1. Total shutdown from defiles. Magdk and stamdk have no way of realistically countering defiles. 30% defiles aren't that bad but if you are fighting with 45% or more in a fight there is almost no way you can win. Mdks have always had bad mobility and whatnot. I never found that to be a problem with a hold your ground class. However defiles have gotten much worse. When I get consistently less heals (2.2k coags) than I did before dragon blood was buffed then something is not right. If I'm gonna play a zero mobility hold your ground class, then I want to be able to actually hold my ground. Defiles don't let me do that.

2. The removal of undodgable power lash. Mdk didn't need an execute in my opinion because power lash got the job done by being undodgable. Now without it it is often very hard to finish off opponents that would have gone down easy with the old power lash. Remove the stun from power lash and make it undodgable again.

3. For the block dks out there: the increase in unblockable ccs that have been introduced and the continuous nerfing of block. Block dks really only needed to worry about fear which was fine. Fossilize would break immediately so it wasn't so bad. But then they changed fossilize to not break from damage and added rune cage and now all of a sudden dks need to deal with 3 ccs from 3 different classes. That and the continuous nerfs of block patch after patch have left block in the worst state it has ever been.



These three things have caused me the most struggle after returning from the game. These are three things I did not have to deal with before that now make playing mdk much more challenging. The ironic thing is that I felt stronger on a mdk before dragon blood was buffed because of the three things I mentioned.

Just thought I would mention that sloads and zaan also make life hard but I feel are lesser pain points than the 3 I mentioned.

My top 2 reasons why playing my favorite class is a pain right there. Powerlash dodgeable extends the fight almost indefinitely and usually end up with me dead due to people bouncing back up and our offensives expend so much that you pretty much don't recover against competent players. Defile just shuts the DK completely and Defile is everywhere. Makes 3.5~4k costing heals into trash at an instance. I mean, I can deal with CCs fine I guess. But those 2 on top of our sustain/slow ultgen, omg... You can manage your resource like a pro, you still can run dry. While other classes can just outsustain with same management.

Yesterday I did something I haven't done since 1.6... I slotted Pulsar. Dmg is crap, but at least it hits and proc glyphs

md3788

Sustain:

Burning embers should replenish health AND magicka when it expires.

Eruption should cost less

IZZEFlameLash

Xvorg wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Pain points for magdk in pvp:

1. Total shutdown from defiles. Magdk and stamdk have no way of realistically countering defiles. 30% defiles aren't that bad but if you are fighting with 45% or more in a fight there is almost no way you can win. Mdks have always had bad mobility and whatnot. I never found that to be a problem with a hold your ground class. However defiles have gotten much worse. When I get consistently less heals (2.2k coags) than I did before dragon blood was buffed then something is not right. If I'm gonna play a zero mobility hold your ground class, then I want to be able to actually hold my ground. Defiles don't let me do that.

2. The removal of undodgable power lash. Mdk didn't need an execute in my opinion because power lash got the job done by being undodgable. Now without it it is often very hard to finish off opponents that would have gone down easy with the old power lash. Remove the stun from power lash and make it undodgable again.

3. For the block dks out there: the increase in unblockable ccs that have been introduced and the continuous nerfing of block. Block dks really only needed to worry about fear which was fine. Fossilize would break immediately so it wasn't so bad. But then they changed fossilize to not break from damage and added rune cage and now all of a sudden dks need to deal with 3 ccs from 3 different classes. That and the continuous nerfs of block patch after patch have left block in the worst state it has ever been.



These three things have caused me the most struggle after returning from the game. These are three things I did not have to deal with before that now make playing mdk much more challenging. The ironic thing is that I felt stronger on a mdk before dragon blood was buffed because of the three things I mentioned.

Just thought I would mention that sloads and zaan also make life hard but I feel are lesser pain points than the 3 I mentioned.

My top 2 reasons why playing my favorite class is a pain right there. Powerlash dodgeable extends the fight almost indefinitely and usually end up with me dead due to people bouncing back up and our offensives expend so much that you pretty much don't recover against competent players. Defile just shuts the DK completely and Defile is everywhere. Makes 3.5~4k costing heals into trash at an instance. I mean, I can deal with CCs fine I guess. But those 2 on top of our sustain/slow ultgen, omg... You can manage your resource like a pro, you still can run dry. While other classes can just outsustain with same management.

Yesterday I did something I haven't done since 1.6... I slotted Pulsar. Dmg is crap, but at least it hits and proc glyphs

That crap damage is a problem though. Lol. Oh and I feel like they broke resistances or something because my DK's been taking a lot more damage. Almost the double damage since the DLC drop. Heavy feels like I am wearing Light Armor even with BS and Volatile. Seeing things like 10k Soul Harvest and 4k~6k from people I've been getting hit by at least half pre Wolfhunter with same setup. Could be secret DK nerf at this point. Lawl.

ak_pvp

You know what would be good for stand your ground? Changing the useless (at high level) magma shell morph of magma armour. Its unnecessary since healers+igneous covers survival, and top tanks really only rotate warhorn. The other morph can stay as is if people want the "selfish" cast or for PvP.

Magma shell: Now called, magma blockade.
Draw molten magma from the ground creating an immovable stone blockade in front of you that lasts for 10s. This blockade cannot be moved or casted through. Cost 120. It'd be roughly the size of path width, but a smaller length/height, only like a large character length/height. Its possible since its how the walls in keeps function, as NPCs that cannot be targetted.

Basically, it just acts as LOS on demand. Under pressure, cast and go behind it, being chased, wall and run. Doesn't do anything but wall and you mitigate/deal nothing, however can be used creatively, like to block of passages or to dance round. And would be an ability highly dependent on player skill level.

FloppyTouch

ak_pvp wrote: »

You know what would be good for stand your ground? Changing the useless (at high level) magma shell morph of magma armour. Its unnecessary since healers+igneous covers survival, and top tanks really only rotate warhorn. The other morph can stay as is if people want the "selfish" cast or for PvP.

Magma shell: Now called, magma blockade.
Draw molten magma from the ground creating an immovable stone blockade in front of you that lasts for 10s. This blockade cannot be moved or casted through. Cost 120. It'd be roughly the size of path width, but a smaller length/height, only like a large character length/height. Its possible since its how the walls in keeps function, as NPCs that cannot be targetted.

Basically, it just acts as LOS on demand. Under pressure, cast and go behind it, being chased, wall and run. Doesn't do anything but wall and you mitigate/deal nothing, however can be used creatively, like to block of passages or to dance round. And would be an ability highly dependent on player skill level.

I really like this great thinking

John_Falstaff

@ak_pvp , that feels like PvP or, at best, tanking morph too, that doesn't help 'stand your ground' DPS style at all since it's not a mitigation that one can use while doing damage. That would further pigeonhole DKs into the tanking role.