[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

ZOS_GinaBruno

The purpose of this thread is to give you a place to post your current top two pain points with the Dragonknight. Our new Class Representatives will be keeping a close eye on this thread, and will utilize it to gather additional feedback for the notes they’re currently compiling for their first meeting with the Dev Team next week. Please be sure and keep your post clear and succinct, and focus more on what is currently frustrating you rather than potential solutions. Thanks!

Dragonnord

1 - Better class heals for stamina DK please. Green Dragon Blood is not enough. We shouldn't be dependent on 2H or DW heals.
2 - Class skills for speed and mobility. We should be able to move faster. Being a DK doesn't mean we have to be heavy and slow.

PS: If you allow me to mention a third point, I'd say class executioner skill. If not, someone else please list it.
 

BohnT

BohnT wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_Wrobel
Here are the reasons why Stamdk is weak in PvP:

Stamdk has huge problems in PvP:
1. They are the spec which takes the most damage in open world pvp. Stamdk has the least ways to avoid damage while having the worst effective healing on top of that.
Nightblades can avoid all damage as long as their cloak doesn't break and they can also remove all further pressure from skills with shadow image by using it wisely and hindering your enemy totally to attack you. They might have weak healing but overall they have great survivability from not taking damage in the first place.
Templars Templars feature the same crappy mobility as DKs. However they can completely remove the full damage of dots and Skoria aswell as other debuffs making their healing better as they don't face defiles like other classes have to. They can't get away however limiting their lifespan to the point where the next zerg tries to kill you.
Sorcs With shields sorcs have a set amount of burst "heal" they can utilise whenever they please and in PvP Burst > Dots/Hots. Aswell as the ability to negate all magicka based ranged damage aswell as the ability to create a gap between you and your enemy that he physically can't close which sets their damage to the dots they applied to you before you escaped.
Wardenhave a burst heal as often as they needed along with a great defensive ult that can reach a uptime of almost 100% which makes you invulnerable against atleast 2 enemies. Along with great mobility due to snare reduction and 100% majorexpedition uptime they can reduce the incoming damage from all meele classes ,which don't have access to major expedition by a lot. As their skills won't connect due to you being out of range. And they can negate 100% of all magicka based ranged damage as long as they want with shimmering shield

Stamdk are forced to eat all meele, dot & most magicka based ranged damage. Wings only reflect a small portion of all skills while being too expensive to be kept up 100% of the time. As an result dk has to rely on dither dodge rolls which is too expensive and too bad with the amount of undodgeable skills in the game or block. Block reduces all direct damage but most dots go through it aswell as shalks, curse and PotL+ can be countered by 3 classes with CCs.
As DK has no mobility by itself they are locked into using Forward Momentum and Vigor as healing which gets increased by 25% with major mending and 12% by Passives. This sounds great but with defiles one player can reduce that with no point into befoul to 7%.
This sets a limit for DKs how much damage they can take before they will die after a set amount of time.
With the lack of mobility their live ends as soon as an enemy zerg is attacking them or is trying to get to them.

On an average day of PvP my deaths through the classes look something like this:
NB: 0-5 Deaths (depending how often i get marked or soultrapped)
Sorc: 0-10 Death (depending on shieldbreaker usage and personal fails)
Warden: 3-10 (few times where zergs actually catch me)
Templar: 10-25 (depending how often zergs try to kill me -5 as this is how often I normally can still get away)
DK: X>15 (equals the amount I fight multiple decent people or a zerg attacks me)

2. They are also the class which relies the most on your enemy to be bad.
As a DK your burst is very weak and completely build around Leap or Dawnbreaker with another skill.
Leap is really unreliable in open world as it can be dodged (thanks for saying it can't be Wrobel, I encounter it 10 times a day when using leap) and the damage of leap might be great but it can be blocked and it is never enough to one shot anyone so you need another skill.

Heroic Slash doesn't deal enough damage to finish more tanky players
Dizzying Swing has great damage but the cast time and the fact that can be dodged, blocked or removed by walking through the caster makes it too slow and too easy, to avoid for good players which won't die to one leap.
As you can't kill your enemies fast enough other people will arrive and at one time you reach the point where they simply kill you and there is nothing you can do, you can't escape, you can't tank them you can only think where to respawn


3. The main sustain stamdk has gets counteracted by the way pvp is played.
Battle roar completely relies on how often you use your ults but ults are not ment to be used mindelessly they are either used to burst down enemies or to survive the pressure when you have to go to defend yourself.

This all comes together making stamdk a bad choice for pvp overall as every class has at least one aspect where they truly outshine stamdk.
I'm not saying you can't do well on a DK but you will be much more effective on any other class

And here are the ideas to make Stamdk a viable class again:

1. Change 1 of the following skills to be a high damage, instant, dodgeable & blockable, meele single target Stamina based spamamble:
Molten Whip or Noxious Breath ( i. t. f. reffered to as NB):
Reasoning and Implementation:
Both skills aren't used by most dks, SG isn't used by any DK, the damage is weak, the buff it grants is lackluster and it's magicka based while magdks already have a great CC and spammable. Noxious Breath is used in PvE but only as another Dot for DPS.
If you choose Molten Whip to be a spammabel: Make it that you get a power whip on poisoned enemies that deals more damage
If you Chose NB: The damage should be equal to suprise attack but poison based. The Major fracture debuff should be changed with minor savagery + minor endurance for 4 seconds

If These changes happen you have to look at the Performance in PvE meaning, you have to test how much DPS the new Spammable contributes in a perfectly optimized Rotation and how much damage the main spammable and in case of NB the dot contributed.
Equal this difference in dps by nerfing Venemous claws a bit (this should be 1% damage nerf max to Venemous claws)


2. Change Reflective Plate to remove all snares and granting you 2 seconds of immunity + 0.75 seconds per reflected projectile during the Duration.
3. Deep Breath took a huge nerf with the changes to Interrupts. As Stamdk lacks burst a delayed burst ability like Deep Breath works perfectly and doesn't affect PvE much as Drain Essence is the better Morph there (excpet for vMol twins)
Make it Stamina based, reduce the damage and healing of the first hit by 40% but increase the damage of the second hit by 25% and remove the Interrupt effect of the ability and poison all enemies that get hit by it this creates a nice synergy with the new poison whip

These changes would give stamdk more burst, better survivability and more class identity but they wouldn't make stamdk viable enough.

There are several useless passives which are a joke compared to the passives of Warden, Nightblades or Sorcs.

Elder Dragon: Get rid of the Health Regeneration and Change it to grant you 35 mag and stam everytime you are hit with a .5 second cooldown this will result in a 140 mag and stam Regeneration if you are actually fighting

Mountain's Blessing: DKs are the class which build their sustain around ultimates although they have the worst ultimate Regeneration in the game. Increase the amount of ultimate granted from 3 to 5 seconds to help Overall sustain and viability.

These changes will help stamdk being a viable class in PvP with a true identity and not being left as an empty Shell which tries to Keep the memories of better times alive

just gonna quote myself from another post

Sigtric

Pve mdk:
1. Sustain
2. Sustain

Combustion change is a step in the right direction, I don't feel it is enough. Class skill cost reduc and/or mag steal on flames of oblivion or engulfing or something

zParallaxz

Non rng sustain that is in line with other classes and a reliable way to excute someone or revert power lash through dodge roll nerf.

josiahva

1. Class skill cost. We have been saying this forever...every skill costs more than other class equivalents.
2. Revert the off-balance changes. This ties into #1, both of which are huge sustain issues

leandro.800ub17_ESO

My top two pain points

1-As Magika DK no execute skill
2- Sustain

Anti_Virus

*edit sorry forgot to list the two points*
More stam morphs please. Here are some suggestions:

Top two pain points
1. Stamina Based AoE and single target
2. mag based class execute

below is some rework ideas

Ardent Flame:

(low priority change)
Molten Whip(Flame whip morph):
renamed to toxic lash and converts to a stam ability and deals poison damage.
*note - the added spell and weapon damage would be a base line effect across the morphs.*

a spammable would be very useful for the class this seems to make the most sense without harming pve melee magicka DKs.

World in Ruin(Ardent Flame passive)
increases your flame and poison damage by 5% instead of AoE damage.


Dragonic Power:

Hardened Armor(Spiked Armor morph)
now deals physical damage on damage returns

nice small change for stam DK wouldn't hurt anyone and is an all around buff, another nice change also would be to make this morph green/ poisonous looking as opposed to the fire look it has now.

(low priority change)
Choking Talons(Dark Talons morph)
renamed to poison talons and deals a physical damage on initial hit and applies a poison dot.
*note - minor maim would be a baseline effect for all morphs*

this will help stam dks in group play, giving them some damage for rooting enemies for allies, also lines up with the poison theme of the class

Deep Breath(Inhale morph)
now deals physical damage on initial hit and poison damage after 2.5 secs and leaves a small posion dot to all enemies afterwards.
*note - the interrupt would be a base line effect across the morphs*

Stam Dk could really use some AoE like how stam sorc and stam blade, this change would absolutely fix that.

Scaled Armor(Dragonic Power passive)
now adds 3300 physical resistance in addition to spell resistance.

Elder Dragon(Dragonic Power passive)
now increases health magicka and stamina recovery per dragonic ability slotted.


Earthen Heart:

Igneous Weapons(Molten Weapons Morph)
renamed to Corrosive Weapons now has a chance to apply the poisoned status effect from damage by %10
*note - major brutality and major sorcery would be a baseline effect across all morphs*

makes this morph more interesting for stam Dks, by increasing poison status proc chance it improves sustain and damage

this change might be radical and questionable change but if anyone has a better idea i would love to read it.

GreenSoup2HoT

I dont play a dragon knight but i feel reflecting 4 projectiles is nothing. They should be the anti range class but the skill isn't even worth using. Give dragons back their wings!

Raraaku

1. Stone Giant - Increase the base damage and get rid of the 100% damage boost if target is stunned. As it is, in my opinion, there is no point to slot Stone Giant in PvE play. Most (all?) dungeon/trial bosses cannot be stunned, and even if that were the case, the stun immunity cooldown renders the skill nothing more than a opening shot, if the target can even be stunned for the extra damage boost.

2. Dark Talons - Expand the radius to 8 meters, or reduce cost. As a tank, I like Choking Talons, but it's radius is just not quite there in my opinion. Compared to Sorcerer's Encase (18x6 cone) or Warden's Gripping Shards (6m radius, better damage due to health scale, snare, and lower cost), dark talons is left somewhat lacking. The Synergy is okay, but I'd like to see either see the Radius slightly increased or have the cost reduced to match Warden's Gripping Shards.

Twohothardware

More than anything else StamDK just needs another Stamina morph of something like Green Dragon Blood, Talons, Fossilize, or Wings. StamDK has a lot of utility but you can't sustain a bunch of high cost Magicka skills. If Green Dragon Blood scaled off of Max Stam like Stamina Warden's Soothing Spores that would provide a lot more healing and return StamDK to the tankier role in PvP that Warden has tried to supplant it from.

Dottzgaming

My top 2 pain points for magicka dragon knight.

Point 1 (PvE): Eruption/Cinder Storm. The skill, for what it costs, is not that good. It needs to either cost less or deal more damage/healing to be more consistent with its cost.

Point 2 (PvP): Wings. Projectiles should be per person, or the number of projectiles we can reflect should be increased. Also, the snare removal morph should grant ~2 seconds of snare immunity to prevent instant snare reapplication.

I do though want to address the inevitable "DK execute" responses that are going to pop up. I cant speak for stamDK, but on a MagDK, i dont think we need it, honestly. Our bars in both pvp and pve are already packed to the brim as it is, we dont need another skill to try and slot. What would be significantly better for us and play directly into the class's theme is if one of our passives made it so that targets under 25% hp took X% more damage from our DoTs. Just wanted to throw that opinion out there before the great flood of people asking for an execute (that i dont think we even need) storm in.

JXNwarrior

Pain points:

1. Mobility - lacking any class mobility skills. Chains is very very niche for anything outside PvE tanking and current Reflective Plate without any immunity doesn't provide any realizable change for the issue.
2. Outdated/Lackluster Passives - The recent combustion change was a step in the right direction but there are several other passives that need to be looked at as well as the new Combustion needing tweaking.

Possible Solutions:
1. Add 4 seconds of snare/root immunity to Reflective Plate, this would significantly improve QoL for Mag builds and give Stam builds some much needed flexibility.
2. Tweak the new Combustion so that it procs off of anyone afflicted with one of your poison/fire DoTs, this would bring the value in line with other class sustain passives and synergize better with the other class tools. Rework Elder Dragon and World In Ruin passives to provide bonuses that are useful to the majority of DKs.

I think overall the class is very middle of the pack. The proposed changes would not be huge buffs nor give any advantages other classes don't already have, but they would promote a better variety of class playstyles that can utilize more class skills.

Rickter

#stamwhip

Aerem

PVP MAGDK:

1. Outdated Passives: elder dragon, World in ruin, iron skin, battle roar
2. outdated skills: molten armaments, standard, wings, magma armor, stone fist, ash cloud

Hayhurst

Stamina Dragonknight

- Lack of stamina morphs. There's so much utility within the DKs kit but everything has a high Magicka cost attached and is impossible to sustain. Stamina versions of Green Dragons Blood, Talons, Stone Fist, Hardened Armor and Deep Breath would be welcomed - I'm not implying all of them, but I believe those are the ones that should be at least looked at to begin with.

- Outdated Passives. Pretty self explanatory, a few of them just need reworking.

It's difficult to end on just two because there's so much more to list but that's what comes to mind.

GrumpyDuckling

1) Stamina morphs are 10 meters or less, basically melee range only.

2) I'm a Dragon-themed knight, but I can only use my wings to block stuff and fly at an enemy when my ultimate is charged. Hello, escapability option...

Hyzock

The pain points I'm gonna be talking about are from a Stamina DK small scale PvP perspective, as that is what I have a lot of experience with. I don't know if these pain points also apply to PvE or mag DK in general.

1. Lack of stamina morphs: At the moment, DK's only have 2 stamina based morphs in their class skill trees, Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw. 2 DoT's, a normal single target DoT with relatively strong damage and a weak AoE DoT with a small cone which applies major fracture. Right now, the 2 most viable ways of playing sDK in small scale PvP are SnB (sword and board) front bar and 2H front bar. SnB front bar usually uses at least 1 of these dots, 2H front bar sometimes uses 1 of these DoT's, but often uses neither. This means that a lot of sDK's only run 2 class abilities (excluding ultimates), which is pretty concerning since the stamina DK doesn't really feel like a DK anymore because of that. The most popular suggestion is a stamina whip, but it's debatable whether sDK needs a class spammable for balance reasons. But there are plenty of options in the DK skill lines that could have a stamina morph without making sDK as OP as it was right before Morrowind.

2. Class identity, more specifically the scaling of Battle Roar and Helping Hands: Before Morrowind, DK's used to build for max resources to get more sustain out of the Battle Roar and Helping Hands passives because these passives used to scale with max resources, and because of this DK's used setups that were unique to DK's. But the scaling on these passives wasn't balanced and sustain in general was too easy because of the Warlord CP passive. So the Warlord CP passive, which was the primary reason for easy sustain, was removed and Battle Roar and Helping Hands got nerfed really hard. They nerfed the passives by making them scale with character level instead of max resources, thus making it the exact same for everyone and removing any reason for DK's to build for max resources, removing a big part of the DK identity (Helping Hands now also restores such a low amount of stamina that it is not even worth it to use an earthen heart ability to get stamina back). That is the part of the DK identity that I want back. Some players think that making these passives scale with max resources will be a buff to DK's, but that is not the case if balanced correctly, I'll try to explain why. Right now, there is no reason to build for max stamina since weapon damage scales way better than max stam. 1 set piece of wep dmg is 129 wep dmg, around 161 wep dmg after major + minor brutality. 1 set piece of max stamina is about 1.1k stamina. For most abilities, 10.5 stamina is worth 1 weapon damage when your damage is calculated. This means that you get about 50% more damage out of the wep dmg set piece than you get out of the max stam set piece. With Battle Roar and Helping Hands scaling with max stamina, this would mean that building for max stam = sacrificing damage for sustain. So it can be balanced, especially with the Warlord CP passive removed, which was the primary reason for easy sustain. I know this isn't really a buff or nerf, but it would help a lot with making Stamina DK feel like a unique class again.

Toc de Malsvi

Firstly cost severely inhibits the use of magicka utility skills on stamina DK setups. Stamina is built off of weapon lines, however magicka based utility skills are what make each class feel unique in a stamina setup. Stamina DK does not feel very unique or good for many right now due to high cost magicka skills with very low utility. Decreasing cost will ease mag DK sustain issues and increase stam DK options for utility.

Secondly with the changes to bleeds the stamina morphs Venomous Claw and Noxious Breath both feel weak and lackluster. These DoT effects could use some love or tweaking to bring them into line.

NBrookus

EDIT: Oh wait, was supposed to be two things.

1) Mobility
2) Melee skills, ranged magicka weapons

---

mDK pain points (PVP):

1) Lack of mobility in a game which increasingly requires constant movement, with little alternative defense mechanisms. This forces DKs into a tank/block playstyle, yet the only supporting passives an extra 10% block, 5% health recovery (a dead stat), 3300 spell resistance, and part time 12% healing recieved. Meanwhile, blocking and tanking have been repeatedly nerfed at given a larger number of counters.

A DK has no way to disengage from a fight. Stam DK has slightly better mobility with access to Rapids and sprint. Mag DK has either a 3 second speed buff for owners of Summerset at a cost of over 3500 magicka or is tied to Vampire for Mist Form, or has 6 seconds of expedition on a very buggy gap closer for 3500 magicka.

2) Lack of alternate defense mechanisms to "stand your ground." See also point #1. Wings is costly and reflects very few abilities and is impossible to sustain full time even if that would do any good.

If DKs are going to be tanks and healers only, they need to be given better defense. If DKs are supposed to be able to tank/dps/heal like other classes, they need to be given at least one viable alternate defense mechanism.

3) Outdated skills and passives.
Molten Armaments: buffs heavy attacks, which are no longer used for damage.
Standard: An expensive ult that can be negated by another class for cheaper and also by a 2 piece set. It's the only skill-based access to Defile that mDK has. Meanwhile Warden gets a spammable AOE defile.
Stone Giant: Ranged skill on a class with only melee damage skills. Needs a reworking away from being a projectile, and possibly is a a good candidate for a stam morph. (Channeled AOE ground pound CC maybe?)
Magma Shell: too expensive for too little effect
Elder Dragon: Health recovery is a dead stat, and with mDK forced into vampire, 5%+ of near zero is still near zero
Battle Roar: PVP requires carefully timed ultimates, but the only sustain passive DKs have is tied to ultimates, and it gives less resources than a tripot.
Chains: At best 50% reliable in Cyrodiil. Fix the z axis problem and both morphs will be good.

4) Inconsistency in range of damage skills. Whip & petrify is 8 meters, talons 6 meters, embers 5 meters and Nox/Flames 10 meters. I would like to see whip, embers, talons and flames all at 8m and petrify at 10-12 since it is a defacto gap closer. Flames and embers need their hitboxes reviewed.

5) Lack of a melee magicka weapon. With DW dead for magicka, the only magicka weapon is destro staff. The mix of ranged weapon and melee class skills does not synergize well in PVP.

6) Good stuff: Leap is great. Flame Lash. Self-healing.

---

mDK is very strong in duels, but is otherwise clunky to play open world due to lack of internal class mechanics being consistent, and struggles to keep up with groups. If mDK becomes viable open world spec'd as full damage, I feel the class' damage skills are sufficient to secure kills and the class doesn't need an execute. IMO, the only reason not being able to execute feels like a pain point is because it is too easy for most other classes to kite outside of your melee range.

Ragnarock41

1. stamina morphs that are heavily outperformed (dots<bleeds and corrosive armor < spell wall) (exception: take flight is nearly identical to dawnbreaker)
2. Lack of class identity in general for stamDk, especially lacking meaningful options like a spammable or other useful stamina morphs that could help me even the odds.

Recremen

1. Stamina DK, in large-scale PvP role, has nothing in its toolkit to help it solidly contribute.

This is my only current pain point for DK so I'll dive into more detail about it. While they seem fine in small groups, Stam DK lacks any kind of desirable buff, stun, immobilize, and delayed player-based AoE damage that magicka classes and stamina Warden bring to the table. Our big buff, Igneous Weapons, is completely superfluous as both of these major buffs are easy to get, mandatory skills for any group build. Our big AoE skill is actually a DoT, so it is useless for coordinating a large damage dump and will get purged off by any competent group without issue. We don't have any special immobilizes or stuns, or anything else of value compared to other classes, so competitive players simply don't run Stam DK in their large groups.

In an ideal world (for me) we would get some kind of delayed-damage player-based AoE that fit the theme of our class, Igneous Weapons would operate more like Molten Armaments but granting Brutality instead of Sorcery, and we'd get a stam morph of some AoE control skill like Dark Talons.

Ruminant

As the best stam dk in the game and the last orc stam dk. I can offer essentially what distills down to a small change that will make this class playable.

Stamwhip:
Grants major expedition and immunity for 1 sec. power lash heals you

All problems wrong with a stam dk addressed in one small ability change.

You're welcome.

Blobsky

Discussed most of my ideas with @Quantum_V already, but...

1. Reflecting with wings should also reflect status effects (e.g. snipe should major defile the oponent rather than yourself still.
2. Reflect should be 4 projectiles per person, not per cast as it is instantly down outnumbered otherwise.
3. Wings cost should be ibncreased 10% if those go through.

Tremors

1. Hardened armour - secondary effects need a buff. Unfortunately in PVE there is too much reason to use Balance from mages guild and not enough benefit to use Hardened armour and it's morphs.

2. Execute passive should be added to promote increased damage from poison and flame dots. For e.g - dots from poison or flame dmg increase by X when your enemy reaches sub 20% health up to a maximum of X

tannips

Helping hands should return a flat % of stamina like it used to rather than just a flat 990 stam. If not this, battle roar should be given a slight buff. Ideally both of these changes will be made because Stam DK is lacking in identity. Before changes were made to these two passives, part of what made DK unique was building for max resources. What made this so OP in the past was its combination with the reduced cost cp tree which no longer exists. If neither of these things will be implemented, I think at the very least that fragmented/igneous shield should have its cost reduced. The amount of stam that we get back from one cast doesn't really justify the high cost.

Stam DK also has to rely heavily on weapon abilities. We have 2 stamina based morphs and they're both dots. Noxious needs a better hitbox because it is often hard to land and can miss even when it looks like it hit the enemy. Having a non dot based spammable is long overdue. Nightblades get concealed weapon/surprise attack, templars get jabs, wardens get shalks/birds, and sorcs get frags/curse. I'm extremely in favor of making stamina whip a reality and I think it's long overdue. It's been asked for by so many DKs for as long as I can remember.

ak_pvp

@ZOS_Wrobel

DKs as a whole hhave had identity stripped from them, due to dots being not high compared to bleeds. Lockdown being outsorced to psijic, sorcs, wardens and NBs. Things like old inferno given to sorcs. Wings nerfed, and a better version given to wardens and tacked onto the shield ult.

However, there are 2 major pain points that impede class functionality, especially for solo play where balancing defense, sustain and attack is difficult, more so on a DK where everything draws from different pools.

Lack of worth while class defense.

• Block was nerfed heavily, and whilst its decent occasionally, it is incredibly unsustainable. Its also not a class defense.
• Class defense passives way too situational. 1 tied to block. 1 tied to spell only. Ends up worse than minor protection.
• Wings, the iconic active class defense, comparable to being way too bad for the cost. Incredibly high cost. 4 projectiles are little. The snare removal is useless.

For the 1st problem, I suggest making it tick less again, after numerous cost increases and sustain nerfs, it becomes overwhelmed quickly. And stam is used in casting, breaking free, rolling etc.

For the second I suggest make the spell resist passive more akin to warden, where it provides both physical and spell. And change the 10% more blocked (Really 5/6% mitigation, due to being 10% more blocked, and that increases the 50% block bonus by 10%) to minor protection for 5s when using an earthen heart ability.

For the third, I would change this so it is a lot less powerful in a 1v1, but scales better, a bit like cloak. It would maintain the high cost as to not be spammable.

This will be done by:

• Changing the base and plate morph to only a deflect.
• Making the base morph 3 reflects for 4 seconds, however function on a per person basis as to not be instantly overwhelmed, this is in comparison to cloak, which has no limits on players/cloaked attacks.
• Making the snare removal morph useful as a pseudo escape by increasing it to 3/4s, currently mist outperforms by a lot, since wings only lasts for 1 tick, not functional against DKs or on ground AoEs. FM would still outperform it. And it fits the DKs unstoppable but slow theme.
• Keep the dragon fire scale as a reflect, so it becomes the damage morph, whilst the other loses that functionality in favor of more defense.

And the second major problem. Lack ability to kill outside of an ult. Different reasons for both specs.

Magicka DKs had power lash as a pseudo execute, but due to the recent changes, it has become incredibly difficult and clunky to land, not only requiring 3 stages to hit, and being extremely telegraphed, but it is also preventable at each spot.
1) CC. Immunity of either type and range can prevent this.
2) Set up. Roll, cloak, streak, purge. Either so the set up whip doesn't it, OR it doesn't set up power lash since you are no longer CC'd.
3) The power lash, again, can be streaked, cloaked, blocked and now rolled, which is the obvious reaction.

No other timer based burst skill, merciless, frags, POTL, scarabs, has that many options to stop it.

One idea that we came up with was to make powerlash more reliable, by having it proc on CC without a set up, and to prevent abuse, the cooldown will still be in place, this would allow a more reliable hit whilst maintaining the ability to evade it by dodge or cloak.
It would allow us to make use of the stun, which we currently cannot if we actually want the lash to hit. Another was to have DKs automatically apply offbalance on CC'd targets, giving group support, allowing synergy between stamDKs and the truth set, and allowing whip be more reliable without changing it further.

The stamina DK can make use of poison injection or reverse slice, but has the problem of actually getting the enemy there, since the pressure form stam DKs dots are extremely low, and the burst is tied to an ult, and without a spammable, dizzy, which is hard to hit and clunky, and LA+Ransack+Bash, which is clunky and kind of expensive are used instead. Both not possible whilst blocking.

The fixes for that would be #stamwhip. Or stam stone fist as a spammable, and integrate some other MDK skills into the stamina tool kit, a brawler like burst skill in deep breath, which can be used to strengthen the next attack by 20%, as well as heal, and stamina version of burning talons for the pressure and control of enemies for leap. Also I think volatile armour being poison and scaling of stam (or either like FOO?) would be beneficial for stamDK and PvE tanks, since it plays to the WOR passive, helps proc the combustion, and pushes pressure. But keep the mag cost though as it is a utility skill.

lolfarris

Make StamDK more viable in end game trials. It’s really depressing having to shelf your main and play a new class because it’s not viable in end game PVE. We need more self heals or a better shield so we can survive in the harder vet trials.

Xvorg

Ok, any DK suffers from 2 big issues that have not been updated until since 2014

1- Passives: most DK passives are bad, and some of them are nearly useless. Things like World in ruin or Searing heat are too situational and favor only one playing style: HA S/B DK. There were some good passives that got a nerf hammer without a clear reason, like helping hands and Battle Roar and which are quite meh nowadays. But there's one passive above all of them that is clearly an insult to all DKs in ESO: Elder Dragon. It's a health recovery passive in a class that needs to go Vamp to get extra movility. I mean, seriously? Extra health recovery for sloting tanking skills? C'mon. You can pass from that passive, saving 2 skill points and nothing, really nothing is gonna change. You will still be a vampire with reduced health recovery. So please, have a look at that.

2- The second problem has to do with the dmg oriented line, Ardent Flame: Ardent flame is the worst dmg line in the game. Only has 2 viable skills (Whip and SS) and none of them benefits from the only passive that increases dmg (WiR). Ok, Searing heat increases Searing strike dmg... a 3%. When you compare that number to the amount of dmg any sorc gets for any physical or lightning dmg, you feel you have been fooled. And that dmg increase does not affect your main spammable (which has a morph that increases the dmg of your ardent flame skills in 100 spell/wpn dmg, which is nothing). That was ok before One Tamriel when Dks had access to a set like old Silks of the Sun, which increased your flame dmg a 5%. On top of that, half of the passives only work with skills in the line, so no chance to increase extra dmg with other skills.

I really believe that having a look to those two points could improve DKs in general.

Swimguy

1. no stamina spammable leads to sustain issues. stam Dks already have mediocre sustain
2. molten armaments takes a skill slot. And we have plent of useless passives. If they wanted DK to be THE heavy attacker just remove the 40% on the skill and give us a boost to HA in Passives. this will also help with spammable and executes.
3. mobility. the only source of major expedition is by using a gap closer. (that chain grip ability)a gap closer.. How about put major expedition on wings specifically AFTER you reflect a projectile for ONLY 2 seconds.

ak_pvp

Xvorg wrote: »

Ok, any DK suffers from 2 big issues that have not been updated until since 2014

1- Passives: most DK passives are bad, and some of them are nearly useless. Things like World in ruin or Searing heat are too situational and favor only one playing style: HA S/B DK. There were some good passives that got a nerf hammer without a clear reason, like helping hands and Battle Roar and which are quite meh nowadays. But there's one passive above all of them that is clearly an insult to all DKs in ESO: Elder Dragon. It's a health recovery passive in a class that needs to go Vamp to get extra movility. I mean, seriously? Extra health recovery for sloting tanking skills? C'mon. You can pass from that passive, saving 2 skill points and nothing, really nothing is gonna change. You will still be a vampire with reduced health recovery. So please, have a look at that.

2- The second problem has to do with the dmg oriented line, Ardent Flame: Ardent flame is the worst dmg line in the game. Only has 2 viable skills (Whip and SS) and none of them benefits from the only passive that increases dmg (WiR). Ok, Searing heat increases Searing strike dmg... a 3%. When you compare that number to the amount of dmg any sorc gets for any physical or lightning dmg, you feel you have been fooled. And that dmg increase does not affect your main spammable (which has a morph that increases the dmg of your ardent flame skills in 100 spell/wpn dmg, which is nothing). That was ok before One Tamriel when Dks had access to a set like old Silks of the Sun, which increased your flame dmg a 5%. On top of that, half of the passives only work with skills in the line, so no chance to increase extra dmg with other skills.

I really believe that having a look to those two points could improve DKs in general.

I feel like this is for PvP, because FOO, breath and standard are used. I disagree with ardent flame comment.

Breath is semi viable, and cauterize is actually amazing for solo. Though I wish it had a center on me function for BGs.
Chains gapcloser is so so. Its dependent on running a fire staff for the empower to be any use, and clunky AF, send, wait, pull yourself, but they fixed the height issues.
Can't say standard is that good, it has potential as a coordinated effort, but "stund ur grund" is dead.