[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

Ragnarock41

Draxys wrote: »

People think DK needs mobility BECAUSE it lacks identity. The class needs to return to its roots of standing your ground, not kiting people around rocks like a sorc. Interesting mechanics like gaining defense or dodge chance while standing inside your own cinder storm are needed again- not mobility mechanics. If that’s no longer the identity zos wants for DK, they need to say it outright. Because the class has been floundering since the console update overhaul, and zos (and tons of tunnel-visioned, whiny players) seem to hate the very idea that DK was based around.

The old stamDK was a perfect stand your ground class. Community hated it. They still hate it. And the stand your ground playstyle will never come back, without taking back all those nerfs after nerfs.

So I would say its better to give them a new identity based on a balance between tankyness/mobility/damage and most importantly sustain , rather than standing your ground by outsustaining everyone in your path.

As of right now DK tankyness and mobility feels fine. additional steps needed for stamDK damage output and Dk sustain in general needs some help. You know things are dumb when you're getting outsustained by magsorcs/stamblades, as a stamDK, the ''outsustain'' class.

Key to fixing these issues are class passives and igneous weapons/molten armaments. Also a few abilities with stamina morphs could empower the ''venom knight'' part of stamDk. I think DKs should have passives that reward them for using light or medium armor setups.

Nightblades for example have this passive which gives them extended uptime on their major resistance buffs, if they wear more heavy armor. Its a good way of encouraging the non meta playstyle , and Could be applied into DKs aswell.

John_Falstaff

Just to complement the above, I fear even reverting all the nerfs won't help the stand your ground playstyle. It's just a deadend in the new content - no such thing as stand your ground applied to Asylum or Cloudrest. High mobility is something dictated by how the game have changed.

It's really death by a thousand cuts, I don't think it's only about sustain. Medium armor doesn't provide any survivability to melee, nowhere near compared to safety given to magicka by range and shields (sheesh, last time I cleared vMA on stamDK, it was in Iceheart monster set, and it didn't matter that 1-piece bonus is the useless spell critical - shields mattered so much the difference was more than noticeable). Sustain based on resource return from ultimate doesn't match the opportunistic, mobile nature of combat in new trials. Mobility of character might be there, but not mobility of damage: sDKs rely on huge part of their damage given by Hail, a tiny ground DoT that gets less and less effective in mobile combat. And it goes on and on.

Qbiken

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

People think DK needs mobility BECAUSE it lacks identity. The class needs to return to its roots of standing your ground, not kiting people around rocks like a sorc. Interesting mechanics like gaining defense or dodge chance while standing inside your own cinder storm are needed again- not mobility mechanics. If that’s no longer the identity zos wants for DK, they need to say it outright. Because the class has been floundering since the console update overhaul, and zos (and tons of tunnel-visioned, whiny players) seem to hate the very idea that DK was based around.

The old stamDK was a perfect stand your ground class. Community hated it. They still hate it. And the stand your ground playstyle will never come back, without taking back all those nerfs after nerfs.

So I would say its better to give them a new identity based on a balance between tankyness/mobility/damage and most importantly sustain , rather than standing your ground by outsustaining everyone in your path.

As of right now DK tankyness and mobility feels fine. additional steps needed for stamDK damage output and Dk sustain in general needs some help. You know things are dumb when you're getting outsustained by magsorcs/stamblades, as a stamDK, the ''outsustain'' class.

The reason it was hated was because you could tank a godly amount of damage and still kill people. Personally I´m perfectly fine with it, BUT

not if it´s done by exploiting broken mechanics and broken sets, which was the main reason stamDK´s could have that playstyle between One Tamriel and Dragonbones. I can give specific examples if people want since those sets and bugs are fixed by know (even though there´re probably new bugs out there exploited by several people....)

But when those things were fixed DK´s where actually more balanced. Then ZOS nerfed block-cost and suddenly the "stand-your-ground" playstyle became less viable.

I don´t think stamDK´s (or magDK´s) are bad in PvP. Sure they´re not in the top of the food chain but I don´t think 1vX is a good benchmark for saying a class is bad or good.

BohnT

Qbiken wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

People think DK needs mobility BECAUSE it lacks identity. The class needs to return to its roots of standing your ground, not kiting people around rocks like a sorc. Interesting mechanics like gaining defense or dodge chance while standing inside your own cinder storm are needed again- not mobility mechanics. If that’s no longer the identity zos wants for DK, they need to say it outright. Because the class has been floundering since the console update overhaul, and zos (and tons of tunnel-visioned, whiny players) seem to hate the very idea that DK was based around.

The old stamDK was a perfect stand your ground class. Community hated it. They still hate it. And the stand your ground playstyle will never come back, without taking back all those nerfs after nerfs.

So I would say its better to give them a new identity based on a balance between tankyness/mobility/damage and most importantly sustain , rather than standing your ground by outsustaining everyone in your path.

As of right now DK tankyness and mobility feels fine. additional steps needed for stamDK damage output and Dk sustain in general needs some help. You know things are dumb when you're getting outsustained by magsorcs/stamblades, as a stamDK, the ''outsustain'' class.

The reason it was hated was because you could tank a godly amount of damage and still kill people. Personally I´m perfectly fine with it, BUT

not if it´s done by exploiting broken mechanics and broken sets, which was the main reason stamDK´s could have that playstyle between One Tamriel and Dragonbones. I can give specific examples if people want since those sets and bugs are fixed by know (even though there´re probably new bugs out there exploited by several people....)

But when those things were fixed DK´s where actually more balanced. Then ZOS nerfed block-cost and suddenly the "stand-your-ground" playstyle became less viable.

I don´t think stamDK´s (or magDK´s) are bad in PvP. Sure they´re not in the top of the food chain but I don´t think 1vX is a good benchmark for saying a class is bad or good.

Well sadly stamdk is the weakest class for anything else. The only spec they beat is magwarden in 1vX capabilities and in any other situation stamdk is the weakest spec out there.

I can't imagine we'll every see a "stand your ground" stamdk again too many things have been changed in order to nerf those specs and they won't reverse them.
I mean they said sloads is there to counter tanks as if there was still a tank meta.
Face tanking isn't a thing, most survivability is gained via LoS and damage avoidance (purge, dodge, cloak) if you gave stamdk the full toolkit to be a perfect stand your ground class you'd probably encounter the issue that people would use the very good open combat survivability and increase it further with Los etc and then people will cry again.

ChildOfLight

My Pain Points

• Playing stamDk is not fun.
  Playstyle is generic. Having to run to or from the opponent(s) feels weird and weak in an environment where everyone has a teleport and/or is ranged pew-pew-ing at you. Berserker playstyle should be desirable in some way.
  
  
• Counterplay should be rewarded
  For instance: using volatile armor to spot a cloaking Nightblade is miserable. He can just cloak right after.
  Trying to use a proactive playstyle, always thinking what your next move can be, is not expected nor rewarded by this game.
  This is the reason ESO pvp will never be competitive. Unless something does change in the direction.
  Check league of legends for reference on this point.
  
  
• Wings is counterintuitive
  Reflecting JUST SOME bullet type skills (?) . Still being affected by status effects (???)
  
  
• The person who is supposed to represent the class is a magDK main
  No argumentation needed here. The rep meeting note is basically what, 80% magdk?

Ragnarock41

Qbiken wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

People think DK needs mobility BECAUSE it lacks identity. The class needs to return to its roots of standing your ground, not kiting people around rocks like a sorc. Interesting mechanics like gaining defense or dodge chance while standing inside your own cinder storm are needed again- not mobility mechanics. If that’s no longer the identity zos wants for DK, they need to say it outright. Because the class has been floundering since the console update overhaul, and zos (and tons of tunnel-visioned, whiny players) seem to hate the very idea that DK was based around.

The old stamDK was a perfect stand your ground class. Community hated it. They still hate it. And the stand your ground playstyle will never come back, without taking back all those nerfs after nerfs.

So I would say its better to give them a new identity based on a balance between tankyness/mobility/damage and most importantly sustain , rather than standing your ground by outsustaining everyone in your path.

As of right now DK tankyness and mobility feels fine. additional steps needed for stamDK damage output and Dk sustain in general needs some help. You know things are dumb when you're getting outsustained by magsorcs/stamblades, as a stamDK, the ''outsustain'' class.

The reason it was hated was because you could tank a godly amount of damage and still kill people. Personally I´m perfectly fine with it, BUT

not if it´s done by exploiting broken mechanics and broken sets, which was the main reason stamDK´s could have that playstyle between One Tamriel and Dragonbones. I can give specific examples if people want since those sets and bugs are fixed by know (even though there´re probably new bugs out there exploited by several people....)

But when those things were fixed DK´s where actually more balanced. Then ZOS nerfed block-cost and suddenly the "stand-your-ground" playstyle became less viable.

I don´t think stamDK´s (or magDK´s) are bad in PvP. Sure they´re not in the top of the food chain but I don´t think 1vX is a good benchmark for saying a class is bad or good.

StamDK has absolutely zero value in group play(unless you go double defile sets and goof around). So 1vX and small scale is the only benchmark I can try on.

Also, just to remind you, stamDK itself died back in morrowind nerfs with majority of the builds the class had to offer, though the ''nerfs'' to blocking allowed some silly permablock builds, which meant you either used full sturdy+shield-play permablock builds or you were weak. After they properly nerfed block this time, things started to become more obvious.

Starlock

The second character I ever created on ESO was a stamina dragonknight. It was a rough experience, and it's the only max level character I've ever deleted. Take that for what you will in terms of what it says about the state of the stamina dragonknight. Some of the things that were pain points from back then would be less of an issue for me now, but thinking about future characters, I'm not sure I ever want to try to make a stamina dragonknight again. Here's the essence of why:

• Stamina dragonknight doesn't seem to have any solid damage dealing abilities. It has a couple damage over time abilities, but nothing that hits hard up front. You have to use weapon skills for that, and I found that bothersome as my character's class identity didn't really mean anything. I think the best candidate for a switch would be Stonefist. I always thought it bizarre that a giant fist of stone did magic damage and cost magicka. Switching it to physical seems logical, and having at least one morph that is stamina-based. A caustic whip might be neat as well, probably a replacement for the Molten Whip morph.

There were other issues I had too, but those were more because I was new to playing a stamina class and this was also back in the pre-CP days. These days, I have more experience on the magicka side of dragonknight. My character there is a dunmer vampire and something of a swashbuckler, so he prefers to wield melee weapons. That in of itself perhaps makes it predictable what my biggest pain point is for magicka dragonknight for me:

• Magicka dragonknight abilities seem to encourage close range combat, but there is no weapon skill line that complements that. Yes, you can wield a staff in melee. It's just weird to me, especially on a magicka dragonknight. When Summerset was announced, I crossed my fingers a melee-magicka weapon line would come out to let me really finish this character. I'm still crossing my fingers it will happen eventually. I love him as he is now, but man... his light attacks and heavy attacks are a joke and I have to watch his resources like a hawk.

ak_pvp

ChildOfLight wrote: »

[*] The person who is supposed to represent the class is a magDK main
No argumentation needed here. The rep meeting note is basically what, 80% magdk?
[/list]

From the class rep meeting:

Dragonknights: Stamina DKs feel left out
Stam DKs want more class harmony and don’t feel Noxious Breath is worth using S
Dragonknights appreciate the changes to Wings and the intent behind World in Ruin (although stam DKs would like a bit more here) S
Mag DKs feedback says Powerlash stun impedes their ability to control opponents. M
Searing Strike and Fiery Breath are not easy to land on opponents. Perhaps make Searing Strike 7 meters? B
PvE - Stamina and magicka sustain needs helps. B
PvE – Engulfing flames. Will send specific feedback to ZOS about how the expectation that the tank will provide this buff leads to pigeonholed PvE raid setups.

1 Mag, 2 stam 2 both and one tank oriented feedback I didn't add stam feeling left out since its more of a general message rather than targetted feedback.

I'd focus on lack of identity and abilities for stam that compete with the meta. Just a weak stamden.
Seriously limited passives.
The continuous erosion, as seen with sloads, of stand your ground without ample recompense. (2s on wings after lots of asking vs an untethered teleport, cloak, easy speed access on NBs)

The rep feedback is not what I would have put for either classes. (Bar QoL with SS/FB and whip stun being stupid.) But its not like the rep is imposing a MagDK dominance. From 1.6 to CwC with a few surges with old desert rose meta, MagDK was *** tier, wheras StamDK was decent comparatively until 7th nerf, though it did take a lot of meta nerfs with block/shuffle where MDK could ride on the coat tails of sorc/NB to play sticks and staves.

craftycarper73

As magdk dps in pvp

My 2 pain in the ass points are.

1 Execute ability is needed
2 sustain

seventyfive

My top 2 pain points:

1. Coagulating blood is too expensive for what it does. The "Major Fortitude" bonus is extremely rarely any useful at all.
2. Neither MagDK nor StamDK can compete with the other classes when it comes to DPS. Both need a slight push in the right direction.

Mister_DMC

1. High cost of utility skills, Igneous/fragmented Shields need a cost reduction and spiked Armor and it's morphs needs a cost reduction.
2. Noxious breath needs a better targeting system and a damage buff to put it more in line with shalks. It doesn't have to do as much damage as shalks does or be delayed burst but it needs a buff to warrant using in PvE or PvP.

Savos_Saren

Two more Pain Points for DK:

-Nightblades can cloak through our DOTs and take no damage. They're supposed to be invisible- not invulnerable. Adjust our DOTs so that they stay on target. Our DOTs shouldn't pull them out of stealth... but they should keep ticking while a NB is stealthed. The only way to get rid of DOTs should be purges (just like all the rest of us have to do!)

-Some of our abilities that are "undogeable" sure as hell get "missed" a lot. I don't understand the mechanic of this. If I can see a target, press the button for chains or leap, and then suddenly the attack doesn't connect... isn't that the exact same thing as "dodge"? ZOS just slapped a different word on it to make, yet again, another exception to our abilities.
(The same goes for our Spiked Armor. I can see the word "miss" popping up all around me when I'm searching for a NB- but it doesn't actually pull them out of stealth... or damage them)

Toc de Malsvi

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Two more Pain Points for DK:

-Nightblades can cloak through our DOTs and take no damage. They're supposed to be invisible- not invulnerable. Adjust our DOTs so that they stay on target. Our DOTs shouldn't pull them out of stealth... but they should keep ticking while a NB is stealthed. The only way to get rid of DOTs should be purges (just like all the rest of us have to do!)

-Some of our abilities that are "undogeable" sure as hell get "missed" a lot. I don't understand the mechanic of this. If I can see a target, press the button for chains or leap, and then suddenly the attack doesn't connect... isn't that the exact same thing as "dodge"? ZOS just slapped a different word on it to make, yet again, another exception to our abilities.
(The same goes for our Spiked Armor. I can see the word "miss" popping up all around me when I'm searching for a NB- but it doesn't actually pull them out of stealth... or damage them)

I think the Leap specific issue is related to how it is programmed. If they are close to the max range when you launch and then they run further away, it appears as though the damage/flight does not actually follow them like it would with meteor. Instead it appears as though the damage stays at the "max" range from where you launched which results in "missed" damage if they move outside that range.

At least that is the most common way that I see misses popping up and I think the most likely interpretation. I do see occasional misses when someone dodge rolls, especially dodge roll into cloak.

ak_pvp

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Two more Pain Points for DK:

-Nightblades can cloak through our DOTs and take no damage. They're supposed to be invisible- not invulnerable. Adjust our DOTs so that they stay on target. Our DOTs shouldn't pull them out of stealth... but they should keep ticking while a NB is stealthed. The only way to get rid of DOTs should be purges (just like all the rest of us have to do!)

-Some of our abilities that are "undogeable" sure as hell get "missed" a lot. I don't understand the mechanic of this. If I can see a target, press the button for chains or leap, and then suddenly the attack doesn't connect... isn't that the exact same thing as "dodge"? ZOS just slapped a different word on it to make, yet again, another exception to our abilities.
(The same goes for our Spiked Armor. I can see the word "miss" popping up all around me when I'm searching for a NB- but it doesn't actually pull them out of stealth... or damage them)

I think the Leap specific issue is related to how it is programmed. If they are close to the max range when you launch and then they run further away, it appears as though the damage/flight does not actually follow them like it would with meteor. Instead it appears as though the damage stays at the "max" range from where you launched which results in "missed" damage if they move outside that range.

At least that is the most common way that I see misses popping up and I think the most likely interpretation. I do see occasional misses when someone dodge rolls, especially dodge roll into cloak.

They can fix it by pasting the way chains works on to it, where it tags the target and pulls you to the target directly rather than to where they were when you casted it. Chains is clunky but funky. I just hope they go easier on the clunk if they do that to wings.

TheMystid

I mostly agree with others, but I think what is really painfull for StamDk (pvp wise) is:

1) too slow ultimate regeneration which makes hard to actually use to high cost ultimate like corrosive armor and standard and truly benefit from battle roar. Indeed we're forced into cheaper offensive/defensive ultimates, which is one of the reasons of class boringness.

2) Helping hands should be reverted in his pre-Morrowind functioning. Its a totally wasted passive for stamDk (as many other passives btw).

John_Falstaff

I'd rather say that DK's sustain should be detached from ultimate, and Battle Roar retired altogether. It just promotes that "stand your ground" playstyle that's not relevant anymore. I find myself waiting for ultimate not because I'll see how to use it for great effect, but because using it will refill my dwindling resources. It's very unhealthy in fights against anything that's actually not standing still while you're hitting it.

Reloader84

I think that they should make Green Dragon Blood a stamina morph, and they should give us a stamina version of whip. The whip is basically to allow the Stamina DK another anytime ability that fits better into the class than the DW/1H/2H abilities especially in PvP. Green Dragon Blood would allow the Stamina DK to not HAVE to run 2h for a burst heal

For the whip, maybe have it do physical damage with an secondary effect which increases poison damage 2%, stackable up to 5 times with a 5s duration.

I do believe that these 2 abilities have been asked by the Stamina DK community for some time now so that they aren't pigeonholed into 1 of 2 play styles.

Skoomah

#staminawhip

IZZEFlameLash

TheMystid wrote: »

I mostly agree with others, but I think what is really painfull for StamDk (pvp wise) is:

1) too slow ultimate regeneration which makes hard to actually use to high cost ultimate like corrosive armor and standard and truly benefit from battle roar. Indeed we're forced into cheaper offensive/defensive ultimates, which is one of the reasons of class boringness.

2) Helping hands should be reverted in his pre-Morrowind functioning. Its a totally wasted passive for stamDk (as many other passives btw).

Faster ultgen alone would solve a lot of problems for both DKs. No discount on ult costs, no fast ult regen like that of NB and Warden and yet the sustain is tied to ult usage. I mean, I like sustain tied to ult usage but DK just don't generate ults fast enough to sustain and outsustain the enemy. DKs need that faster ultgen to balance the sustain for them so it opens up more options for them.

Amdar_Godkiller

Stam DK has nothing particularly valuable in terms of passives and therefore they are most immune to power creep of any class, and it's damage skills are easily countered by 6 out of 10 classes. There's no way to fix it unless you're willing to give them something that will scale well over time as CP increases. As such, the obvious and easy answer would be to grant them percentage penetration as a passive or make our dots deal direct damage against damage shields.Make flames of oblivion cooler.. We have 3 skills that define us and one is about as threatening as an emote.


This would help slightly in PVE, but massively in PVP. I also think the whole poison route was the wrong way to go. Stam DK dots should have been bleeds, that fits more closely with the dragon them in my opinion. We are the heart of the dragon, not the serpent's spit. We need a means of better putting pressure on mag classes.

Savos_Saren

Throwing this out there again for newer viewers:

StamDK:

Choking Talons: Deals poison damage. Synergy deals physical damage.
Deep Breath: Deals poison damage.

(These two skills would help StamDKs gain more buy-in into the class and would benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive! It would help in PVE and PVP.)

MagDK:

Change Stone Fist (and it's morphs) to flame damage. Leave the ability's damage as-is... but add: Dealing damage to an enemy below 25% health deals an extra 250% damage.

MagDK and StamDK:

Change Flames of Oblivion to an AOE that scales off highest resource. Deals either flame damage or poison damage (benefits from World-in-Ruin)

Change Elder Dragon (passive) to: When activating an Elder Dragon skill- you gain one ultimate per enemy hit. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds. (So, the max is 6 extra points every 10 seconds because your skills only hit six people... and that's only if six people are around. So it can't be overly abused if only a couple of people are attacking you.)

This would get rid of the useless "Healing Received" passive and, since it stacks with Mountain's Blessing passive- it'll give us a little more dynamic ultimate regen... all the while- passively increasing both stamina and magic based regen.

IZZEFlameLash

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Throwing this out there again for newer viewers:

StamDK:

Choking Talons: Deals poison damage. Synergy deals physical damage.
Deep Breath: Deals poison damage.

(These two skills would help StamDKs gain more buy-in into the class and would benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive! It would help in PVE and PVP.)

MagDK:

Change Stone Fist (and it's morphs) to flame damage. Leave the ability's damage as-is... but add: Dealing damage to an enemy below 25% health deals an extra 250% damage.

MagDK and StamDK:

Change Flames of Oblivion to an AOE that scales off highest resource. Deals either flame damage or poison damage (benefits from World-in-Ruin)

Change Elder Dragon (passive) to: When activating an Elder Dragon skill- you gain one ultimate per enemy hit. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds. (So, the max is 6 extra points every 10 seconds because your skills only hit six people... and that's only if six people are around. So it can't be overly abused if only a couple of people are attacking you.)

This would get rid of the useless "Healing Received" passive and, since it stacks with Mountain's Blessing passive- it'll give us a little more dynamic ultimate regen... all the while- passively increasing both stamina and magic based regen.

I disagree with Choking Talons change. This will leave mDKs who do not run Wizard's Riposte very vulnerable to the damage. I'd rather let stam have Burning Talons. MDKs need that readily accessible Minor Maim to stay alive long enough without being pigeonholed into running Wizard's Riposte.

NBrookus

.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Throwing this out there again for newer viewers:

StamDK:

Choking Talons: Deals poison damage. Synergy deals physical damage.
Deep Breath: Deals poison damage.

(These two skills would help StamDKs gain more buy-in into the class and would benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive! It would help in PVE and PVP.)

MagDK:

Change Stone Fist (and it's morphs) to flame damage. Leave the ability's damage as-is... but add: Dealing damage to an enemy below 25% health deals an extra 250% damage.

MagDK and StamDK:

Change Flames of Oblivion to an AOE that scales off highest resource. Deals either flame damage or poison damage (benefits from World-in-Ruin)

Change Elder Dragon (passive) to: When activating an Elder Dragon skill- you gain one ultimate per enemy hit. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds. (So, the max is 6 extra points every 10 seconds because your skills only hit six people... and that's only if six people are around. So it can't be overly abused if only a couple of people are attacking you.)

This would get rid of the useless "Healing Received" passive and, since it stacks with Mountain's Blessing passive- it'll give us a little more dynamic ultimate regen... all the while- passively increasing both stamina and magic based regen.

I disagree with Choking Talons change. This will leave mDKs who do not run Wizard's Riposte very vulnerable to the damage. I'd rather let stam have Burning Talons. MDKs need that readily accessible Minor Maim to stay alive long enough without being pigeonholed into running Wizard's Riposte.

Thurvokun is also an option, but new pve tanks do need choking talons.

Inhale is a better candidate for a stam morph, IMO.

IZZEFlameLash

NBrookus wrote: »

.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Throwing this out there again for newer viewers:

StamDK:

Choking Talons: Deals poison damage. Synergy deals physical damage.
Deep Breath: Deals poison damage.

(These two skills would help StamDKs gain more buy-in into the class and would benefit from the World-in-Ruin passive! It would help in PVE and PVP.)

MagDK:

Change Stone Fist (and it's morphs) to flame damage. Leave the ability's damage as-is... but add: Dealing damage to an enemy below 25% health deals an extra 250% damage.

MagDK and StamDK:

Change Flames of Oblivion to an AOE that scales off highest resource. Deals either flame damage or poison damage (benefits from World-in-Ruin)

Change Elder Dragon (passive) to: When activating an Elder Dragon skill- you gain one ultimate per enemy hit. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds. (So, the max is 6 extra points every 10 seconds because your skills only hit six people... and that's only if six people are around. So it can't be overly abused if only a couple of people are attacking you.)

This would get rid of the useless "Healing Received" passive and, since it stacks with Mountain's Blessing passive- it'll give us a little more dynamic ultimate regen... all the while- passively increasing both stamina and magic based regen.

I disagree with Choking Talons change. This will leave mDKs who do not run Wizard's Riposte very vulnerable to the damage. I'd rather let stam have Burning Talons. MDKs need that readily accessible Minor Maim to stay alive long enough without being pigeonholed into running Wizard's Riposte.

Thurvokun is also an option, but new pve ranks do need choking talons.

Inhale is a better candidate for a stam morph, IMO.

Oh yeah, Thurvokun but I feel that it is too slow of a spread. And being a placed AOE, easy to side step around. I don't know about Inhale. I like that it gives magicka back but at the same time, I could probably live without it.

Savos_Saren

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

ak_pvp

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

Choking has to stay the magicka morph since its utility for tanks in PvP to use as a maim CC. Initial fire damage would be useful for both WoR and the combustion passive.

Burning can be stam and poison.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

I think stonefist is a good candidate for an execute skill, but so would molten weapons, since that one has pretty much been canned at this point.

These are all great ideas, and make me excited for the future of DKs. Hopefully ZOS listens to our requests.

Ragnarock41

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

Savos_Saren

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

You can still use it for group utility. My light armor mDK still slots talons on his SnB bar. If they made one version of talons poison- I'd 100% slot it for my stam DK. I usually run in small to large groups in BG/Cyrodiil.

Ragnarock41

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Either way- I feel that some of these AOE abilities should spread to the stamina-based characters. Definitely poison damage, though- since it will benefit from World-In-Ruin.

If ZOS chooses Burning Talons over Choking talons as the Poison morph- then they need to at least make Choking Talons do flame damage. Whichever morph of Inhale/Deep Breath needs to be poison with the other as fire damage.

I think we need to remind ZOS that DKs DO NOT get a bonus to poison or fire damage... we only get a bonus to AOE poison or fire damage. So, we don't benefit the same way that Sorcs (physical damage and shock damage), Wardens (frost and magic), Nightblades (weapon/spell damage while stealthed and ANY crit damage), or Templars (physical) get the straight bonus.

I don't think giving talons to stamDK makes any sense as the class has literally nothing left to do with ''stand your ground'' at this point. Besides its a tank ability.

You can still use it for group utility. My light armor mDK still slots talons on his SnB bar. If they made one version of talons poison- I'd 100% slot it for my stam DK. I usually run in small to large groups in BG/Cyrodiil.

magicka Dk makes actual use of the talons with the whip off-balance synergy and the overal slow kit of mDk works better with talons. I don't think poison talons is a bad idea.(İn fact it would be a lot more useful than the hurr durr stonefist spammable But I think It is not really unique or something critical to stamDk, we are not a control class, not a stand your ground class anymore, not really have any synergies with it, So why give us even more tank tools if we simply don't want to be basic tanks?

sDK needs the good stuff, like poison inhale or a poison morph of volatile armor, which would help a lot with damage output, And while at it both classes could benefit from an improved flames of oblivion... Its in a sad state. Its cheap and cute , I like it, I use it all the time, but still. Its in a kinda weak state compared to what other classes have.