PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance

NyassaV

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

I spent a short amount of time trying things out on my Nb healer and NB tank. Here are my initial opinions:


Dark Cloak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIS1_tu5Bf8

4 ticks of healing, each tic can crit. It seems okay, though I think that the Minor Protection buff should be extended to 6 seconds at max rank to be even with the Shadow Barrier passive of 6 seconds of Major Resistances. This will save a little bit on magicka having to use the ability less often for just the Protection buff.

Refreshing Path
I have no comment on the damage reduction, but I feel that The healing amount should be left as it is on Live.

Strife
I personally don't like the cost increase on this skill. It may not bother my Healer as much in the long run, but it really hits my Tank's magicka sustain, causing me to use this skill less often, mostly Per 10 seconds for the HoT effect.

Malevolent Offering

The thorn visual effects of this ability show on who you aim at, instead of who it actually heals.

The tooltip confuses me a little bit. I'm not sure which values of the health cost it's actually using.

The Smart Heal will target pets as well as players. I don't agree with this behavior. I think it should only effect ally players, or at least prioritize them over a pet. (It was targeting the summoned pets from the proc healing sets like Chokethorn.)

The damage this ability does to you over time procs sets like Gorothar, Pirate Skeleton, and Bloodspawn. In the case of Bloodspawn, it will grant you it's 14 ultimate while out of combat.

@ZOS_Wrobel

What does strife have in common with Burning embers? They are both heals, they are both cheap, and TANKS use them both

Rohamad_Ali

Still waiting for tc to load but can someone tell me why Malificant offerings damage to health is scaling with CP points in Therm an if that's intentional ? What cp are supposed to scale with the health and healing rates ?

ecru

Fix the buggy animations for the class before nerfing it. The broken animation of Strife is bad enough, increasing the cost to that of Force Pulse will make literally every NB avoid it if they can.

KingJ

The fact that the new Dark cloak heal can Crit is just awesome thanks @ZOS_Wrobel

H4RDFOX

BohnT wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

The Dark Cloak change is bad. As someone who has always used this offensively, it doesn't feel good to be forced into the more common morph. I think there are plenty of other skills that can have a max health heal.

A Max health heal while still having access to cloak would be too much.

Keep the cloak, and damage resilience buffs is just right.

aeowulf wrote: »

Initial thoughts, i've not patched yet or logged in, but here goes:

Strife - "This change was made to put the Strife ability cost more in line with other similar types of abilities, such as Force Shock." - I don't consider this a reason but more of a guideline. Strife is part of the siphoning tree, which I beleive is meant to be the NB healing tree. Force Shock is destro which is a DPS skill. It also has already had one cost increase. It's siphoning line, reducing it's damage by 50% and increasing it's healing by 50% would of been more appropriate if it needed altering, and/or balancing with an alternative skill, like one in the resto staff line.

Veiled strike & blur should swap positions. Blur is more tanky, and strike is damaging. It would give an addition option for procing executioner, where two of the skills won't. Three if you consider grim focus, as at the time of it to proc, it's more likely you'll be using killer's Blade. Passives also suit the skills much better if they are swapped.

These are logical NB changes.

l3alls wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

The Dark Cloak change is bad. As someone who has always used this offensively, it doesn't feel good to be forced into the more common morph. I think there are plenty of other skills that can have a max health heal.

A Max health heal while still having access to cloak would be too much.

Yes, agree with this. Also a tanky NB is not going to be one that's running around in stealth, magicka or otherwise. Least not in my head. It's also still possible to slot vigor and have a decent heal for stam NB. It's a good choice, one or the other.

You misunderstand. Revert dark cloak. Make a different skill heal max health.

The siphoning skill line has the healing skills not the shadow skill line regardless of dark vigor. I'm making space on my drive to install PTS, and work with the changes, maybe look into separate builds, but I don't agree with increasing strife cost as I use it on my main bar for its healing rather than damage.

exeeter702

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

On the Strife nerf,

I've been experimenting with Force Pulse in PvP in light of this.

Force Pulse is:

• More damage (if you account for Penetrating Magic and Altmer/Dunmer racials, it might even be more or the same without racials)
• Unreflectable, which is very strong as the rest of the ranged mNB kit is reflectable. Allows much more pressure against DKs and Wardens.
• Can be much more reliably animation canceled in lag
• No need to slot an extra skill to get Ancient Knowledge, allowing use of better alternative abilities
• Doubles the uptime of status effects. This might not seem like much, but burning adds quite a bit of pressure if your damage is already pressure based.

Strife:

• While minor vitality is strong, much of the effect is lost by being front-bar'd, especially if you're damage shield based.
• The HoT won't proc against block, can be "mitigated" (including against damage shields, no crits), and can be negated by dodging/reflecting the base damage, making it very weak in most practical situations. The strength of the HoT doesn't translate to PvP at all due to the ways to avoid and mitigate it. I don't even notice it's gone.

The actual strength of this ability was being able to stack more damage as a return for it's cheaper cost. Without that, it's a very weak skill compared to FP/CS. I'll definitely be using FP if this nerf goes through.. I might even use it anyway, it's much better than I thought initially.

You are being very selective with your reasoning here.... Strife, provides flat increased healing done just for being slotted and provides additional ultimate generation. The mitigation argument in pvp is not nearly as much of a factor as is being made put here. Weaving issues are a seperate matter and have no bearing on ability budgets.

The abilities are anagolous to one another, and this nerf is more harmful to nb healers above all else. Mnb resource management will be harder for sure, but the 2 skills absolutely bring equal amount to the table for what they will cost.

Imo though, both pulse and strife should have a base cost around 2000 magicka.

exeeter702

NyassaV wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

I advice you to reconsider Strife increase.
There were several threads made about this change in past weeks, a lot of player feedback was given.

You want to bring it more in line with Force Pulse, but it totally makes no sense. Why you don't reduce cost of Force Pulse instead to match Strife one?

You want to have more diversity in builds, but don't you see that with these kind of changes you are the one who kills diversity?

Now every magblade in PvE will use Force Pulse instead of Strife. Strife will become useless nearly everywhere except vMA and PvP.

This is how you increase diversity? Open your eyes finally. There will be none.

Another thing: after Dragon Bones Assassin's Will is broken. It was reported many times that if you have proc ready on your bar and you exit the combat, proc disappears even if you have still Merciless Resolve active.

It was never confirmed as intended change, and in today's patch notes there was still no word about it. This causes frustration in content like vMA, where you exit combat all the time.

It's partially useless in PvP too

Srife (funnel health) is vital to nb healers, there is more at stake here than just your dps figures.

Nerftheforums

Stamblade changes - PVP perspective only

For the lazy readers: nerf incap by changing major defile to minor OR by reducing the effect of major defile and the damage buff to 3 seconds.

Arguments:
No more guaranteed crit heals in cloak: I do agree a lot on the changes made to shadowy disguise. Nightblades (stam in particular) are the class that is supposed to have amongst the higher burst and kill potential in the game, not the ability to heal like crazy. Now, it will be more difficult to do it, so I'm happy with that (yes, I like hardcore gameplay, just as I like balance).

Incapacitating strike: I do realize a lot of people cry because of this since it is very strong, cheap and they might have some l2p issues, yet I would like to bring up a couple arguments:
- It is the cheapest ulti in the game, yet it is purely single target (not like leaps, meteor, dbos, crescent/empowering sweep, etc.). The only exception to this is soul harvest, obviously, and soul assault. The latter is better under certain pov because u can time it with curse/fissure/power of the light/inferno/deep breath/etc to gain an almost guaranteed kill on a non-blocking target. Yet, I do understand it is not as used as incap and is not perceived as strong now.
- The stun cannot be removed imo. Why? Because the only class/guild ulti that has direct damage as a main source of damage and does not stun are the templar's sweep (crescent & empowering) and soul harvest. As all pvpers might have noticed, it is rare to encounter a templar or magblade using one of these ultis because stun = opportunity window to kill someone. A perfect example is the fact that several magblades use incap for the stun (and defile) over soul harvest. Remove the stun, and 80% of stamblades will be using dbos. We want balance, not removing skills from a class' portfolio.
- The damage is on par with any other direct damage ultimate. Not higher than the ones providing a DoT (crescent sweep, dbos, meteor, and fragment, lol), yet lower than the ones with no secondary effect (leaps), which makes sense. Thus, a nerf to the damage would not make the skill balanced imo.
- A cost increase is not the solution. It will still hit overall too hard and people will continue to cry, as it has been in the past. Moreover, again, it is single target. With the ultimates above mentioned, almost every class can kill several targets if the positioning is correct and the preparatory phase to the ulti is correct. With incap you cannot. You need it to kill, and it allows you to kill only one target. Because of this, I do not believe an increase in the cost is the solution.

Proposed solutions:
Yet, incap is indeed a bit too strong but, especially, too easy to use. Even though it is indeed getting an indirect nerf via the change to empower, it needs a bit of rework. Thus, I propose ONE of the following:
- Change major defile to minor: lets be honest, defile is game changing. VERY strong, yet so common in the game from sets (cyro's crest, durok's), poisons and non-ulti skills (rev bash, warden's circle of death, dark flare). Imo defile should be something "difficult" to achieve and tied to something that does not grant an 100% uptime, just like an ultimate. Because of this, I do believe the removal of defile is wrong.For example: if you incap a non-potato dk, templar or warden and they break free with the reaction of a decent/good player, you will never kill them. They will just hold block and heal enough to get out of the danger zone. You need the defile to kill the tankiest targets, no doubt, but major might be too much, especially because of how well befoul scale (please change the scaling of that perk, prettyplease).
- Decrease the duration of both the major defile and the buff to the damage to 3 seconds (suggested change): 6 seconds is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. I don't like being incapped just as anybody else. Why? Because I know that for SIX seconds I will be at a disadvantage. Any good nightblade does not need and does not deserve so much time to kill someone. Nightblades are assassins, they should hit super hard and fast, and then disappear. This justifies the presence of both the defile and the increase in damage. Moreover, incap is the fundamental skill in every nightblade's killing rotation, and as almost every other class (sorc and warden excluded), they need that ultimate to kill someone that knows at least a bit what they are doing. Nbs (stam especially) are amongst the squishiest classes, and should (and do) have amongst the higher bursts. Yet, this does not justify a 6 second heal debuff and increase in damage. It is too much, not needed and not rewarding. 3 are more than enough to finish a target and will kill the threat that all non-skilled nightblades pose upon anyone in pvp.

exeeter702

@ZOS_Wrobel

In my opinion, NB healers revolve around managing the uptime on hots, including funnel health. The funnel health morph should have the effect of reduced cost (ending up being unchanged from live) and maybe healing more and dealing less damage than it currently does. Then let it smart heal any 2 allies as opposed to the caster and 1 ally.

Swallow soul could retain the damage it does on live and receive a slight cost increase to around 2100. And force pulse should be reduced to 2100 base cost as
well.

The 2 skills are absolutely equally weighted based on what they provide for their cost, but i feel the cost for both skills is a bit too high.

Rohamad_Ali

exeeter702 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

In my opinion, NB healers revolve around managing the uptime on hots, including funnel health. The funnel health morph should have the effect of reduced cost (ending up being unchanged from live) and maybe healing more and dealing less damage than it currently does. Then let it smart heal any 2 allies as opposed to the caster and 1 ally.

Swallow soul could retain the damage it does on live and receive a slight cost increase to around 2100. And force pulse should be reduced to 2100 base cost as
well.

The 2 skills are absolutely equally weighted based on what they provide for their cost, but i feel the cost for both skills is a bit too high.

I agree with this . The current nerf is too much and the notion a class skill needs to be in line with a weapon skill seems to me to be an elitist meta dungeon runner ideology . We are talking about almost double the cost on a unique class spammable and making it no longer spammable as well as subject to dodge and reflect . This needs to negotiated down to respect average players that are not parse meta players . Wrobel should know better then to pigeon hole players because of top end meta players in dungeons . The theory it needs to be nerfed down to a weapon skill line accessible to all classes is silly and even some meta players have admitted this openly on TC streams . It's being called too much and no longer useful . Understanding this is a first round PTS change I believe turning back the dial is imperative next cycle .

NBrookus

Daus wrote: »

So a lot of these suggestions for nerfing incap are terrible with the exception of the one made by @KingJ. Incap does not hit too hard whatsoever, and truthfully it is only used for it's utility.

Trade you Crescent Sweep for Incap.

JobooAGS

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Stamblade changes - PVP perspective only

For the lazy readers: nerf incap by changing major defile to minor OR by reducing the effect of major defile and the damage buff to 3 seconds.

Arguments:
No more guaranteed crit heals in cloak: I do agree a lot on the changes made to shadowy disguise. Nightblades (stam in particular) are the class that is supposed to have amongst the higher burst and kill potential in the game, not the ability to heal like crazy. Now, it will be more difficult to do it, so I'm happy with that (yes, I like hardcore gameplay, just as I like balance).

Incapacitating strike: I do realize a lot of people cry because of this since it is very strong, cheap and they might have some l2p issues, yet I would like to bring up a couple arguments:
- It is the cheapest ulti in the game, yet it is purely single target (not like leaps, meteor, dbos, crescent/empowering sweep, etc.). The only exception to this is soul harvest, obviously, and soul assault. The latter is better under certain pov because u can time it with curse/fissure/power of the light/inferno/deep breath/etc to gain an almost guaranteed kill on a non-blocking target. Yet, I do understand it is not as used as incap and is not perceived as strong now.
- The stun cannot be removed imo. Why? Because the only class/guild ulti that has direct damage as a main source of damage and does not stun are the templar's sweep (crescent & empowering) and soul harvest. As all pvpers might have noticed, it is rare to encounter a templar or magblade using one of these ultis because stun = opportunity window to kill someone. A perfect example is the fact that several magblades use incap for the stun (and defile) over soul harvest. Remove the stun, and 80% of stamblades will be using dbos. We want balance, not removing skills from a class' portfolio.
- The damage is on par with any other direct damage ultimate. Not higher than the ones providing a DoT (crescent sweep, dbos, meteor, and fragment, lol), yet lower than the ones with no secondary effect (leaps), which makes sense. Thus, a nerf to the damage would not make the skill balanced imo.
- A cost increase is not the solution. It will still hit overall too hard and people will continue to cry, as it has been in the past. Moreover, again, it is single target. With the ultimates above mentioned, almost every class can kill several targets if the positioning is correct and the preparatory phase to the ulti is correct. With incap you cannot. You need it to kill, and it allows you to kill only one target. Because of this, I do not believe an increase in the cost is the solution.

Proposed solutions:
Yet, incap is indeed a bit too strong but, especially, too easy to use. Even though it is indeed getting an indirect nerf via the change to empower, it needs a bit of rework. Thus, I propose ONE of the following:
- Change major defile to minor: lets be honest, defile is game changing. VERY strong, yet so common in the game from sets (cyro's crest, durok's), poisons and non-ulti skills (rev bash, warden's circle of death, dark flare). Imo defile should be something "difficult" to achieve and tied to something that does not grant an 100% uptime, just like an ultimate. Because of this, I do believe the removal of defile is wrong.For example: if you incap a non-potato dk, templar or warden and they break free with the reaction of a decent/good player, you will never kill them. They will just hold block and heal enough to get out of the danger zone. You need the defile to kill the tankiest targets, no doubt, but major might be too much, especially because of how well befoul scale (please change the scaling of that perk, prettyplease).
- Decrease the duration of both the major defile and the buff to the damage to 3 seconds (suggested change): 6 seconds is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. I don't like being incapped just as anybody else. Why? Because I know that for SIX seconds I will be at a disadvantage. Any good nightblade does not need and does not deserve so much time to kill someone. Nightblades are assassins, they should hit super hard and fast, and then disappear. This justifies the presence of both the defile and the increase in damage. Moreover, incap is the fundamental skill in every nightblade's killing rotation, and as almost every other class (sorc and warden excluded), they need that ultimate to kill someone that knows at least a bit what they are doing. Nbs (stam especially) are amongst the squishiest classes, and should (and do) have amongst the higher bursts. Yet, this does not justify a 6 second heal debuff and increase in damage. It is too much, not needed and not rewarding. 3 are more than enough to finish a target and will kill the threat that all non-skilled nightblades pose upon anyone in pvp.

Id rather remove the stun from incap, and remove defile from death stroke. Pve stamblades rely on incap heavily for dps. Remove the damage from that, and you'll see stamblades being replaced by other classes... and the forums exploding on pvp nerfing pve

VaxtinTheWolf

After thinking about it a little bit, I find myself highly attached to the Healthy Offering morph for the minor mending buff. I think Shrewd Offering should benefit from an increased heal in addition to the reduced cost.

Either you have a more efficient version of Malevolent Offering, or choose minor mending to boost all of your overall healing.

I'm not sure how to make Shrewd Offering more enticing compared to Healthy.

Faylis

Wrong place, I though this was feedback and balance thread. Seems I have stumbled into another nerf NB thread by that Dragonkiller person...

exeeter702

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

In my opinion, NB healers revolve around managing the uptime on hots, including funnel health. The funnel health morph should have the effect of reduced cost (ending up being unchanged from live) and maybe healing more and dealing less damage than it currently does. Then let it smart heal any 2 allies as opposed to the caster and 1 ally.

Swallow soul could retain the damage it does on live and receive a slight cost increase to around 2100. And force pulse should be reduced to 2100 base cost as
well.

The 2 skills are absolutely equally weighted based on what they provide for their cost, but i feel the cost for both skills is a bit too high.

I agree with this . The current nerf is too much and the notion a class skill needs to be in line with a weapon skill seems to me to be an elitist meta dungeon runner ideology . We are talking about almost double the cost on a unique class spammable and making it no longer spammable as well as subject to dodge and reflect . This needs to negotiated down to respect average players that are not parse meta players . Wrobel should know better then to pigeon hole players because of top end meta players in dungeons . The theory it needs to be nerfed down to a weapon skill line accessible to all classes is silly and even some meta players have admitted this openly on TC streams . It's being called too much and no longer useful . Understanding this is a first round PTS change I believe turning back the dial is imperative next cycle .

The cost nerf is high yes, but it should be noted (as i did not saying anything of the sort) that class skills and universal skills should not be weighted under different criteria, they should fufill different niches yet should remain anagolous to one another. Being class skills has no bearing on an ability doing X damage for Y cost any more than a weapon skill should. I belive this to be ZOS stance as well. For good reason.

Nerftheforums

waitwhat wrote: »

"In a gank, the victim is already stunned by the opener, and if not, they'll be stunned by Ambush, so the follow up with Incap doesn't need a CC."

Ambush does not stun, and stunning with ambush -> S.A. won't be a thing anymore due to the changes to how ambush works

Rohamad_Ali

exeeter702 wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

In my opinion, NB healers revolve around managing the uptime on hots, including funnel health. The funnel health morph should have the effect of reduced cost (ending up being unchanged from live) and maybe healing more and dealing less damage than it currently does. Then let it smart heal any 2 allies as opposed to the caster and 1 ally.

Swallow soul could retain the damage it does on live and receive a slight cost increase to around 2100. And force pulse should be reduced to 2100 base cost as
well.

The 2 skills are absolutely equally weighted based on what they provide for their cost, but i feel the cost for both skills is a bit too high.

I agree with this . The current nerf is too much and the notion a class skill needs to be in line with a weapon skill seems to me to be an elitist meta dungeon runner ideology . We are talking about almost double the cost on a unique class spammable and making it no longer spammable as well as subject to dodge and reflect . This needs to negotiated down to respect average players that are not parse meta players . Wrobel should know better then to pigeon hole players because of top end meta players in dungeons . The theory it needs to be nerfed down to a weapon skill line accessible to all classes is silly and even some meta players have admitted this openly on TC streams . It's being called too much and no longer useful . Understanding this is a first round PTS change I believe turning back the dial is imperative next cycle .

The cost nerf is high yes, but it should be noted (as i did not saying anything of the sort) that class skills and universal skills should not be weighted under different criteria, they should fufill different niches yet should remain anagolous to one another. Being class skills has no bearing on an ability doing X damage for Y cost any more than a weapon skill should. I belive this to be ZOS stance as well. For good reason.

It is my personal belief , I was not implying my thoughts were yours . The agree was for the general cost being too much right now . Rest of the ideology is personal reflection .

arkansas_ESO

Malevolent Offering should work as a self heal. The past two iterations of it have both worked as self heals, other conal AOE heals like Warden's Soothing Spores work as a self heal, single-target heals like Healing Ward and Honor the Dead can heal the caster, and so on.

Capt_Morgan

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

After thinking about it a little bit, I find myself highly attached to the Healthy Offering morph for the minor mending buff. I think Shrewd Offering should benefit from an increased heal in addition to the reduced cost.

Either you have a more efficient version of Malevolent Offering, or choose minor mending to boost all of your overall healing.

I'm not sure how to make Shrewd Offering more enticing compared to Healthy.

I've been messing around with shrewd offering in pvp for small scale fights. The minor mending is kinda useless as this is the only heal besides funnel health I use. Two things I really like about it, is that it doesn't cost mag, so I don't have to worry about going oomph and have enough mag to still cloak about and escape essentially, and MOST IMPORTANT is that it has a near invisible telegraph. Unlike Templar screaming LOOK AT ME I can cloak away at a distance and heal my buddy with a pretty decent heal at low cost to me and still go UN noticed. Pretty sure my buddy might be getting reported for hacking getting healed up with no telegraph. Just a small red aura at his feet.

Strider__Roshin

NBrookus wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

So a lot of these suggestions for nerfing incap are terrible with the exception of the one made by @KingJ. Incap does not hit too hard whatsoever, and truthfully it is only used for it's utility.

Trade you Crescent Sweep for Incap.

Truthfully I think crescent sweep should replace its DoT with Major Defile. Stamplars use dawnbreaker and magplars use destro ult for pve DPS. I think that ultimate's base ability should cause Major Defile.

Maryal

BohnT wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Would be nice if cloak purged dots instead of suppressing them. Reduce server lag.

It did this back in the das it was really overperfoming.

Back then it wasn't OP, it was more of an issue of getting it for 'free' when most others had to use alliance skill purge at its high resource cost. But that was then and this is now ... and now it is commonplace to be bombarded with multiple debuffs and multiple poisons. Wardens get an absolutely free purge with their netch, so it's about time NBs got the purge put back in cloak.

VaxtinTheWolf

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Malevolent Offering should work as a self heal. The past two iterations of it have both worked as self heals, other conal AOE heals like Warden's Soothing Spores work as a self heal, single-target heals like Healing Ward and Honor the Dead can heal the caster, and so on.

On live I use Healthy Offering on my NB tank in my filler slot, but we also don't have the Dark Cloak that heals on Live yet.

Personally, if Healthy Offering went back to also healing the user, I'd probably just use that because I don't always stack health, usually favoring Magicka at 30k and around 26k Health. In that case, That'd at least give options. Dark Cloak for the Tougher Dungeon and Trial Environment where tanks often stack Health, and then using Healthy Offering for easier content, and 4-Man vet dungeons.

Silver_Strider

My feedback

Strife and Refreshing Path nerf are too severe IMO. From a Tank and a Healer perspective, both these skills are extremely important for performance purposes as Refreshing is both an important healing tool and the main source of Major Resolve/Ward for Tanks and Funnel is the NB healer's main healing ability. If these changes have to be made for DPS purposes, can the heal on Strife be increased by 3-5% and the cost on Path reduced to help alleviate some of the extra burden this places on NB Tank and Healer sustain?

Also, can Blur be altered to provide Minor Evasion to party members as a group utility skill? Currently, NBs main utility is offheals but with the Strife cost increase, we're going to be seeing much less of that being used in group settings in favor of Force Pulse. Granting Minor Evasion to party members would be a very small buff to the skill but one that would at least give NB a niche utility buff.

Overall, I'm fine with the changes in general but these few suggestions are just to help NBs in areas other than DPS.

NightbladeMechanics

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

NyassaV

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Malevolent Offering should work as a self heal. The past two iterations of it have both worked as self heals, other conal AOE heals like Warden's Soothing Spores work as a self heal, single-target heals like Healing Ward and Honor the Dead can heal the caster, and so on.

This is kinda an interesting suggestion... I'm not sure if it would be 100% worth it unless you are speced into healing so sorta "Balanced?"

NBrookus

Daus wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

So a lot of these suggestions for nerfing incap are terrible with the exception of the one made by @KingJ. Incap does not hit too hard whatsoever, and truthfully it is only used for it's utility.

Trade you Crescent Sweep for Incap.

Truthfully I think crescent sweep should replace its DoT with Major Defile. Stamplars use dawnbreaker and magplars use destro ult for pve DPS. I think that ultimate's base ability should cause Major Defile.

Interesting idea... but you'd probably see it about as often pvp as Standard. Problem with using an ult for aoe Defile is Corrupting Pollen still exists. And the templar toolkit just doesn't have any hard hitting abilities except a channel that also has Major Defile on it.

AddictionX

waitwhat wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno


Changing the major defile to minor defile would allow skilled and prepared nightblades to stack the minor with major from Lethal Arrow, not so much nerfing the ultimate as raising the skill level with an attendant gain in benefit.
.

Major and minor defile stacking behind a burst skill is not a way to balance the skill minor defile stacking should be restricted to poisons, and sets.

Strider__Roshin

NBrookus wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

So a lot of these suggestions for nerfing incap are terrible with the exception of the one made by @KingJ. Incap does not hit too hard whatsoever, and truthfully it is only used for it's utility.

Trade you Crescent Sweep for Incap.

Truthfully I think crescent sweep should replace its DoT with Major Defile. Stamplars use dawnbreaker and magplars use destro ult for pve DPS. I think that ultimate's base ability should cause Major Defile.

Interesting idea... but you'd probably see it about as often pvp as Standard. Problem with using an ult for aoe Defile is Corrupting Pollen still exists. And the templar toolkit just doesn't have any hard hitting abilities except a channel that also has Major Defile on it.

Well I honestly don't agree with the fact that corrupting pollen has Major Defile. I'd either swap it for minor or get rid of defile all together. I think Major Defile should only come from ultimates. It's too strong to be so readily available in my opinion.

NyassaV

AddictionX wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno


Changing the major defile to minor defile would allow skilled and prepared nightblades to stack the minor with major from Lethal Arrow, not so much nerfing the ultimate as raising the skill level with an attendant gain in benefit.
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Major and minor defile stacking behind a burst skill is not a way to balance the skill minor defile stacking should be restricted to poisons, and sets.

Then take defile off of reverb

BohnT

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

People will complain about Incap. A low cost ulti which applies a ton of debuffs is a sound concept for the debuff class. It just can’t burst as hard as it does currently.

Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where casting this ability and its morphs would not remove you from invisibility.

I have a serious problem with this. Being able to cloak > Teleport Strike > Veiled Strike stun targets has been a core nightblades class mechanic since forever. Removing it is an unnecessary reduction of the class’s mechanical depth. It’s diluting class identity and pulling power out of the class to compensate for power creep from item sets and CP. It’s a slap in the face to nightblades honestly.

You already reduced Ambush > Incap stealth gank damage by reworking empower. Weaving to take advantage of the new empower would pull you out of stealth upon arrival anyways.

If it’s an issue with the extended cc duration passive layering with the stuns, then just get rid of the passive.

The combination of ambush + incap without breaking stealth was pretty devastating.
You got lots of buffs for your skills by using this.
Empower, both skills have access to 10% more weapon damage, both skills are guaranteed crits if you were stealthed which means another 10% extra crit damage.
And in the end it was a bug in the end.

On incap i stated numerous times that the stun has to go. For everyone who doesn't think the stun makes incap way more powerful than death stroke/ soul harvest. Create a magnb or a stamnb. Use Soul harvest for two weeks in pvp and then swap to incap afterwards.
Even with the small loss in damage when using incap on a magnb you'll notice how you can win lots of fights in less than 2 seconds after leaving cloak by simply hitting your enemy with incap + will.

The stun just opens a too big offensive window that makes a bursty class like NB way too powerful and in combination with their ability to disengage at will it's extremely unfair to play against.