PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance

Mannox

Strife seems only worth a single shot in my rotation for DPS. Which makes the ability feel flat and annoying. It was also an incredibly useful ability for tanking. Along with many other instanced and overland content and playstyles. Strife is bread and butter for a Nightblade. It is definitely way too expensive now.

Phiathornsyldol

Strife Nerf is a terrible idea. I get why you want to somehow nerf the damage in pve , but this nerf is just killing class diversity and pvp sustain. You should nerf another skills instead , perhaps something that will nerf Stam nbs too , for example both morphs of killing blade.

olsborg

Feanor wrote: »

@olsborg

No class has efficient snare removal outside mist form, Shuffle and FM. Even if DKs get it on wings and Templars can purge that’s still not efficient because of the cost attached to the skills that do the removal. There isn’t any snare immunity other than Shuffle.

So why do you want to give it to NB as a class skill? Which gets a huge mobility buff with the new Shadow Image anyway?

Outside a small window with CC you’d never be able to catch a NB with snare removal and immunity at disposal.

DK get snare removal on one of their class skills, templar can easily purge it and wardens sorta has a purge (albeit very limited one) and what is key for magblades is positioning and mobility, they should have some counter to what counters them very much..snares and roots. @Feanor

terrasight

I can live with all the changes except strife... I'm a blade and don't want to be forced to use force pulse as my spammable.

A "small" cost increase I can live with... but over 50%? Nope...way too much... and there is no reason to do that.
Nightblades rotation is the most difficult rotation of all... we have to practice a lot, and I want to see a reward for it in the end if I do it right.

I don't care about PvP or Nightblade heal/tanking... I'm a PvE DD... plain & simple. No offense...just my point...

ccfeeling

Maybe we weave Elemental Weapon in the next chapter, NB theme is dead.

Silver_Strider

Made my own post with all this but it quickly died to the back ends of the forum so I figure I'll repost it here.

Regarding some of the changes NB will see, I have to say that I am on the side that does not like the nerf to Strife or Path of Darkness. While I do understand the reasoning to an extent, I do feel as though these changes are particularly hurtful to NB Tanks and Healers. For Healers, Funnel Health is a very important HoT to maintain at all times so with the cost increase, it's putting a much greater strain on them and even with the Malevolent Offering Change providing a "free" burst heal to our allies, it's still a fairly risky ability especially now that it doesn't appear to work on the caster anymore (hoping it's just a bug that gets fixed but haven't seen any official statement on it as of yet). This also hurts NB Tanks as it's effectively increasing the cost of one of their most important tools for self healing and Ultimate Regen, which is one of their few defining characteristics as a tank. Refreshing Path is also very important to both NB healers and Tanks as its one of our most important buff skills and provides NBs one of their very few group utilities with extra offhealing for themselves and the group that I feel that the Healing component of these skills should be left alone entirely. Nerfing the heal on this skills puts more strain on NB tanks and healers as they have to use alternative means to make up for the lose and coupled with the Strife Nerf puts much greater strains on both roles. If there must be a cost increase to Strife, could it be to a lower extend than the current suggested amount or could the healing component of Strife be improved from 29% to 33% and if the healing component of Refreshing Path must be nerfed, can the cost of Path be reduced slightly as well?

I would also like to make a suggestion on Debilitate. While the rework is interesting, I feel it still falls short as far as a DPS ability as Crippling Grasp is just infinitely superior. As such, I would like to suggest that Debilitate be changed into a Minor Lifesteal debuff on the target while the DoT is in placed. Not only will this fit in with the Siphoning Tree being the Healer Skill Line for the class, it also fits thematically with the class as a Siphon Healer as well as gives some much needed utility to NBs by altering a fairly underwhelming ability into something much more desirable for Healers to use.

Continuing on with group utility, I would like to suggest Blur + Morphs to be reworked into a group buff, granting Minor or Major Evasion to party members (capped at 6). While the skill is currently fairly useful in its own right, NBs are still very lacking in group utility in comparison to most other classes. As such, reworking this ability and its morphs to provide either Minor or Major Evasion would help it be much more attractive an option for group play and help to fill in some more of the gap in group utility that NBs lack. I personally would prefer it to be Minor Evasion so as to try and limit its PvP interactions as passive dodge chance is fairly annoying as it there, it still has that potential whether it be Major or Minor Evasion as you can combine it with Shuffle and stack both of them and Major Evasion on 6 people also can be quite a challenge as well to fight in PvP so this one is a bit trickier to balance but I still feel Bur has the greatest potential as a group buff skill than anything else in our toolkit.

To conclude with the group utility suggestions, I would like Reaper's Mark to be altered to increase the damage the target takes in execute range instead of providing Major Berserk. While the Major Berserk has occasional usage, the skill still pales in comparison to Piercing Mark, which has a longer duration as well as its value in PvP against other NBs, so altering this ability to provide extra execute damage for the group would more than likely see this morph as a great addition to NB's PvE utility, plus it matches the name so well too. As for fear of NB DPS increasing as a result of Reaper's Mark, considering that it doesn't provide any substantial damage increase until >25% and that NBs would be hard pressed to drop any skill on their Hotbars to slot it without coming at a DPS loss in 1 way or another, I'm really not to sure whether or not a DPS NB would slot this whereas a Tank or Healer NB might be more inclined to do so.

Finally, I would like to suggest that Siphoning Strikes and morph be updated to provide a stronger heal/resource return on Heavy Attacks. Currently, it provides the same benefits regardless if you Light or Heavy attack, so it's weighed heavily in favor of Light Attacks as there are much quicker to get out. It would help with the sustain issues of NB tanks greatly as they have a much more difficult time getting in many light or heavy attacks in some end game instances that getting more resources back on Heavy Attacks would be a great help in that department.

TL;DR version:
Either increase the cost by a more reasonable amount or up the Healing component on Strife from 29% at Max Rank to 33%
Reduce the cost of Refreshing Path
Rework Debilitate to provide Minor Lifesteal
Rework Blur to Provide either Minor or Major Evasion to up to 6 party members
Rework Reaper's Mark to increase damage target takes for the group at execute phase (>25%) but lose the Major Berserk perk
Update Siphoning Strikes to provide more healing/resources on Heavy Attack.

Marabornwingrion

7 pages of feedback, most people don't like Strife cost increase, but @ZOS_Wrobel will not even consider our feedback...
Depressing.

Aedaryl

Astrid_V wrote: »

7 pages of feedback, most people don't like Strife cost increase, but @ZOS_Wrobel will not even consider our feedback...
Depressing.

A nerf need to happen somewhere for PvE balance.

You can disagree with how the nerf come, and do give other way to bring magblade DPS in line with others.

But you can't disagree a nerf need to come.

Of course NB don't want to be nerf. No NB will say : I'm so happy to receive a nerf.

Feanor

olsborg wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@olsborg

No class has efficient snare removal outside mist form, Shuffle and FM. Even if DKs get it on wings and Templars can purge that’s still not efficient because of the cost attached to the skills that do the removal. There isn’t any snare immunity other than Shuffle.

So why do you want to give it to NB as a class skill? Which gets a huge mobility buff with the new Shadow Image anyway?

Outside a small window with CC you’d never be able to catch a NB with snare removal and immunity at disposal.

DK get snare removal on one of their class skills, templar can easily purge it and wardens sorta has a purge (albeit very limited one) and what is key for magblades is positioning and mobility, they should have some counter to what counters them very much..snares and roots. @Feanor

Those skills cost more than 4k magicka or close to it. Also they don’t have the utility of cloak. Snare removal and immunity on cloak would buff NB through the roof.

ccfeeling

Lol , I like those NB hater feedback !

Rianai

Feanor wrote: »

Those skills cost more than 4k magicka or close to it. Also they don’t have the utility of cloak. Snare removal and immunity on cloak would buff NB through the roof.

Cloak has (depending on the morph) the same or higher base cost than wings, just saying ...

Feanor

Rianai wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Those skills cost more than 4k magicka or close to it. Also they don’t have the utility of cloak. Snare removal and immunity on cloak would buff NB through the roof.

Cloak has (depending on the morph) the same or higher base cost than wings, just saying ...

It‘s actually a base cost of 3780 for both Wings and Shadowy Disguise. The utility cloak has make it the far more powerful skill though, even if Reflective Plate should get snare removal now (DKs already complaining about snare removal without immunity being useless on a close to 4k cost skill).

Is it really so hard to imagine what snare removal and even immunity for 2s on shadowy disguise would do, especially combined with the new Shadow Image?

Rianai

It would allow nightblades - especially magblades - to run away a bit better. Seems op ...

Aside from this i never said, cloak should remove snares and grant immunity (i think every class should have access to reliable snare removal though), just that using the cost as argument doesn't make much sense.

aeowulf

My thoughts, I don't expect everyone to agree but will put them out there.

I started playing ESO in Beta, when the game went live, I thought I'd try NB. I had been tanking in MMO's since EQ1 and fancied a change. It turned out that I wasn't enjoying DPS, so decided to try DK tank. I didn't like it so stopped playing. A year later, I came back, NB tanks were a thing, so I dusted off my original character and started tanking. It was a complete blast, the most fun i'd had in ESO by far.

Last year Morrowind arrived. I knew what to expect and it wasn't good. NB tanks were removed from ESO with a change that was meant to balance sustain. the change still worked for DPS quite nicely and while it ended up quite well balanced <for them> it was no longer tank friendly. The NB tank community has been ignored since. My friends list was mostly NB tanks, and it was decimated as people stopped logging on. There was simply no replacement that was as much fun as NB tank. This occured because resource management that a NB tank had was reduced to pitiful levels. This in turn meant the were no longer able to cast sap essence with such abandon that it made up for all their other short comings. Their 'group utility' was extra healing, which for the most part made up for the lack of crowd control.

In short Morrowind decimated NB tanks, effectively removing them from the game. (NB tanks were not the only class-role that was also hit)

I took part in Morrowind PTS, and posted about this on these forums, as did many others. To this day, people still post about the sustain issues NB tanks have. They basically have insufficient sustain for tanking, unless certain races are chosen. Racial choice should not be a pre-req to performing a class role. For stamina, their regen passive is comparable to a single regen glyph, but it's obviously zero when blocking. Executioner passive is probably worst sustain 'thing' in the game, needing perfect timing, a mob to die and to cast a damaging skill from a non-tanky specific tree that costs more than the resource returned, that will have pitiful damage because you are a tank, not DPS. Under no circumstances is this good for NB tanks. Last year, the sustain issue NB tanks faced was visited by ZoS, and the skill was partially broken. (It's due to be fixed with the release of Summerset - this is too long to wait btw.) It will still not help NB tanks. Our other skill is siphoning. This skill takes 9 seconds of perfect weaving to break even. If allowed to run it's full course, it's between 150 & 250 resource per second, depending on if you get 20 light attacks in, or not, which tanks do not. Wardens get around 400/s for example, whilst DK/sorcs get an on demand stamina return. Templar tanks are in a comparable situation to NB tanks in this regard. NB are the only class where it costs upfront resources to wait 9 seconds of perfect weaving to break even. Waiting 20 seconds is a complete joke. I'd love to see what DK's faces would be like if you told them helping hands would restore the resources over 20 seconds, let alone telling them they would need to wait 20 seconds to get it.

I fear that just like last year, some major PTS issues will be ignored, so the time I spend in PTS this year will be drastically reduced. Warnings were put in place about NB tanks not being a thing post Morrowind, and guess what, they won't be again. Summerset will not do enough to help them, and I beleive it actually harms them. This is why I believe this is the case:


Assassin’s Blade: This change will have no impact, honestly it's so minor i'm surprised anyone bothered with the code change.

Lotus Fan (Teleport Strike morph): I feel this change is for PVP, but this will mean PVE mobs can move faster. It should of been changed to 'if a player is hit, the snare is reduced by 50%

Bolstering Darkness (Consuming Darkness morph): This is a really bad change. Whilst the 'once leaving the area' thing is nice, the duration has been reduced and the additional 30% damage redux on the caster is removed. This is centered on the caster, which if they are a tank will be just in front of a mob. A DPS going to collect this buff will need to put themselves in signficant danger AND their DPS will be reduced whilst moving. If there are already a few stamina DPS, then thier DPS will be reduced whilst they move away, wait and return. This is not a good change. This is no longer an emergency tank skill. The change should be applied to Veil of Blades. Bolstering is probably on ZoS list of underused skills - this is because there are no NB tanks, not because the skill is bad.

Dark Cloak (Shadow Cloak morph): Yes! but no at the same time. This is a major quality of life nerf. Pre Morrowind, I slotted invis on my NB tank, to make overland questing bearable. Being able to skip trash meant that I could complete quests nearly as quickly as a DPS, but obviously with less exp gain. I do feel a tankblade should prob not have invis, but at the same time I'm not looking forward to this change. This is a heal, it should be in Siphoning skill line, not shadow. It should also proc 'Transfer'. NB tanks never had a 'healing themselves' issue.

Dark Shades (Summon Shade morph): Potentially good for NB tanks, as long as the uptime can still be 100%

Manifestation of Terror (Aspect of Terror morph): The opposite of what a tank needs

Path of Darkness: Whilst this is cast by NB tanks, the change will not affect NB tanks too much

Shadow Image (Summon Shade morph): No change to NB tanks

Debilitate (Cripple morph): No change to NB tanks

Malevolent Offering: Minimal change to NB tanks - of note will no longer self heal. This mean that the Transfer passive is not going to be procced by NB tanks, if any were running this historically.

Soul Siphon (Soul Shred morph): nice change, if slotted. Still not as good as War Horn so NB tank will unlikely be impacted by it.

Strife: Staple skill of NB tank. The cost change will mean this is probably going to be removed from the bar, unless it's kept for the passive alone. This is not so bad in the way that something needed to make space for dark cloak. You cannot balance something because something in a different tree is better. ESO does not work like that, balance is REALLY delicate and by bringing this in line with force pulse, you make the class comparatively weaker unless change something else by an equal an opposite manner. For example, if a class has half the sustain of another class, their skills should cost half the amount. I do not beleive you see the intricacies of balance (I'm not saying NB have half the sustain btw, it's to give an example of why this type of justification for balance does not work.) This is a class skill, when you change these the whole class needs to be looked at. A class might be known for pets, their massive damage shield, abundance of healing, cheap healy spammable or whatever. Using a non class skill as justification for a change does not work fo keeping class balance unless something else is changed in an equal and opposite manner.

Overall, these are not tank positive changes. In short, NB tanks loose their their emergency ultimate & a 'quality of life' skill to get something they didn't need, whilst strife becomes 50% less appealing to use. NB tanks are in a comparatively bad place already, and the Summerset changes do not address this. Nothing that was raised as an issue with Morrowind last year has been addressed. The fixes that have been introduced are not in the logically correct trees, whilst theres there have been tons of threads over the last year with some very good ideas. It feels like these have been ignored and changes that have been put in have not been thought through have been put in place. Then there are things like DK's are getting additional sustain this patch, magDK do need the help, but this will also affect other DK roles.

And that's not all folks...

I have an issue with stam NB DPS. Most NB stam DPS slot 4 class skills, this is 1/3 of the total skill slots available to them. This is a really bad ratio. Simply put, this means that the non-class specific skills are better (otherwise class skills would be slotted.) This is happening because NB class continues to get nerf followed by nerf, and if these changes carry on there will be NB's running round with literally one or two class skills. I can see siphoning going next, being replaced with racial based regen that in some cases is already over twice as effective.

I want to be 'Summerset Positive', I really do, but I wanted to be 'Morrowind Positive' I beleive these PTS changes are already set in stone, no matter what is posted on here. They were for Morrowind, and even with all the feedback and warnings NB tanks would disappear, the changes were ignored.

RavenSworn

I rather

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Made my own post with all this but it quickly died to the back ends of the forum so I figure I'll repost it here.

Regarding some of the changes NB will see, I have to say that I am on the side that does not like the nerf to Strife or Path of Darkness. While I do understand the reasoning to an extent, I do feel as though these changes are particularly hurtful to NB Tanks and Healers. For Healers, Funnel Health is a very important HoT to maintain at all times so with the cost increase, it's putting a much greater strain on them and even with the Malevolent Offering Change providing a "free" burst heal to our allies, it's still a fairly risky ability especially now that it doesn't appear to work on the caster anymore (hoping it's just a bug that gets fixed but haven't seen any official statement on it as of yet). This also hurts NB Tanks as it's effectively increasing the cost of one of their most important tools for self healing and Ultimate Regen, which is one of their few defining characteristics as a tank. Refreshing Path is also very important to both NB healers and Tanks as its one of our most important buff skills and provides NBs one of their very few group utilities with extra offhealing for themselves and the group that I feel that the Healing component of these skills should be left alone entirely. Nerfing the heal on this skills puts more strain on NB tanks and healers as they have to use alternative means to make up for the lose and coupled with the Strife Nerf puts much greater strains on both roles. If there must be a cost increase to Strife, could it be to a lower extend than the current suggested amount or could the healing component of Strife be improved from 29% to 33% and if the healing component of Refreshing Path must be nerfed, can the cost of Path be reduced slightly as well?

I would also like to make a suggestion on Debilitate. While the rework is interesting, I feel it still falls short as far as a DPS ability as Crippling Grasp is just infinitely superior. As such, I would like to suggest that Debilitate be changed into a Minor Lifesteal debuff on the target while the DoT is in placed. Not only will this fit in with the Siphoning Tree being the Healer Skill Line for the class, it also fits thematically with the class as a Siphon Healer as well as gives some much needed utility to NBs by altering a fairly underwhelming ability into something much more desirable for Healers to use.

Continuing on with group utility, I would like to suggest Blur + Morphs to be reworked into a group buff, granting Minor or Major Evasion to party members (capped at 6). While the skill is currently fairly useful in its own right, NBs are still very lacking in group utility in comparison to most other classes. As such, reworking this ability and its morphs to provide either Minor or Major Evasion would help it be much more attractive an option for group play and help to fill in some more of the gap in group utility that NBs lack. I personally would prefer it to be Minor Evasion so as to try and limit its PvP interactions as passive dodge chance is fairly annoying as it there, it still has that potential whether it be Major or Minor Evasion as you can combine it with Shuffle and stack both of them and Major Evasion on 6 people also can be quite a challenge as well to fight in PvP so this one is a bit trickier to balance but I still feel Bur has the greatest potential as a group buff skill than anything else in our toolkit.

To conclude with the group utility suggestions, I would like Reaper's Mark to be altered to increase the damage the target takes in execute range instead of providing Major Berserk. While the Major Berserk has occasional usage, the skill still pales in comparison to Piercing Mark, which has a longer duration as well as its value in PvP against other NBs, so altering this ability to provide extra execute damage for the group would more than likely see this morph as a great addition to NB's PvE utility, plus it matches the name so well too. As for fear of NB DPS increasing as a result of Reaper's Mark, considering that it doesn't provide any substantial damage increase until >25% and that NBs would be hard pressed to drop any skill on their Hotbars to slot it without coming at a DPS loss in 1 way or another, I'm really not to sure whether or not a DPS NB would slot this whereas a Tank or Healer NB might be more inclined to do so.

Finally, I would like to suggest that Siphoning Strikes and morph be updated to provide a stronger heal/resource return on Heavy Attacks. Currently, it provides the same benefits regardless if you Light or Heavy attack, so it's weighed heavily in favor of Light Attacks as there are much quicker to get out. It would help with the sustain issues of NB tanks greatly as they have a much more difficult time getting in many light or heavy attacks in some end game instances that getting more resources back on Heavy Attacks would be a great help in that department.

TL;DR version:
Either increase the cost by a more reasonable amount or up the Healing component on Strife from 29% at Max Rank to 33%
Reduce the cost of Refreshing Path
Rework Debilitate to provide Minor Lifesteal
Rework Blur to Provide either Minor or Major Evasion to up to 6 party members
Rework Reaper's Mark to increase damage target takes for the group at execute phase (>25%) but lose the Major Berserk perk
Update Siphoning Strikes to provide more healing/resources on Heavy Attack.

I rather have Path to have a group synergy, both morphs dealing an instant direct damage to targets in the aoe. That can compensate with the loss of damage.

I'm on the fence on blur giving a group buff. It's... I don't know, a bit overkill? Not to mention the shadow ult gives movement speed boost...

Which leads me to your reapers mark change. Did you mean to just change the berserk buff to a major vulnerability for the group? You've gotta take away the major fracture and breach as well.
Now that we don't have an aoe fracture or breach (unless you have two wardens taking two different shalks), even having a different source for both these buff would offer options for groups.

I don't want nbs to end up being a buff machine, we were meant to be the perennial dps class, aside from sorcs by design. Let's focus on our class strength without watering down class identity.

Minaithelan

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

King’s and Queens of “Healing Done.”.....LoL. Not quite.



Funnel health? Heals only one person, and not nearly strong enough to be a burst heal.

They have zero access to minor mending. Zip. Zilch. So there’s 8% off their healing done.

Malevolent Offering - with the nerf to strife, this already weak heal is made all the worse, because then you have to so ehow heal YOURSELF back up, but yet you have no significant strong heals to do so.

Won’t consider any skills in resto staffs/orbs, because all classes have access to them, so wouldn’t matter if it as a nightblades.

Dragonknights - Kings/Queens of healing received

Templars - (from now until the fabric of Oblivion tears Tamriel asunder) the true King’s/Queens of Healing Done

Have you healed on a NB? I know this comment always makes other healers boils but it is the truth. Next to templars I'm usually around 50-60% healing done, in spite of keeping Combat Prayer, Orbs and EleDrain/QuickSiphon.

You actually have DOUBLE the minor mending strength is you slot your skills correctly: If on the front bar you slot siphoning strikes (mana regen similar to rune focus sans the movement restriction) and replace the Darkness ult for the Healing one (only possible in fights where spreading is necessary, and remember front ult is never to be used, that's what WH is for) you have +6% healing done. Add the 2% healing done that Mending or Jorvuld's give and you got you 8%. PLUS Healthy offering does give Minor Mending, and its live design is totally countered by Refreshing Path, meaning free buff even if you cast it to a person who does not need it. Time to read the patch notes, this change has been around for a while.

olsborg

Feanor wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@olsborg

No class has efficient snare removal outside mist form, Shuffle and FM. Even if DKs get it on wings and Templars can purge that’s still not efficient because of the cost attached to the skills that do the removal. There isn’t any snare immunity other than Shuffle.

So why do you want to give it to NB as a class skill? Which gets a huge mobility buff with the new Shadow Image anyway?

Outside a small window with CC you’d never be able to catch a NB with snare removal and immunity at disposal.

DK get snare removal on one of their class skills, templar can easily purge it and wardens sorta has a purge (albeit very limited one) and what is key for magblades is positioning and mobility, they should have some counter to what counters them very much..snares and roots. @Feanor

Those skills cost more than 4k magicka or close to it. Also they don’t have the utility of cloak. Snare removal and immunity on cloak would buff NB through the roof.

Wasnt suggesting adding that on cloak, I find invisibility in pvp somewhat op, but most classes has some mechanic that I find op in most situations anyway(thats another discussion tho). I was suggesting adding snare removal on Blur.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

I 3rd this. I may be bad, but I have an extremely difficult time weaving 5 LA's in PvP melee rang in the given time frame. I am too busying applying FM, breaking CC, applying FM, rolling, applying FM, blocking, applying FM.... I think you get the point...

Just learn to weave like the rest of us. People are to lazy to simply light attack in between skills. THis is why combat is being continually dumbed down is because of people's laziness like this. It's not very complicated and if puts more time into learning to weave and they beat you then they deserve it.

I think it was Pelican who made a video about light attack weaving in which he included a camera showing his hand too. I'd go look for that. I'd post it for you but I'm on a network which restricts youtube.

It’s not a matter of “learn to weave” it’s that the ability itself is clunky. They added an extra light attack needed a couple patches ago, this added to the complexity. Couple that with the sound and animation, plus if you have a competent player, the know the burst is coming. The build up just makes the skill meh. It needs something changed. The buff they added making it ani cancellable was huge, however, with that they increased the travel time in the air. We can’t just ever get a utility buff, there’s always some unnessary double edged buff we get. I just was floating an idea that’s been said before. I’ve been playing magblade since day 1 and it’s my only character. I’ve rolled with many many punches and would just like some sort of utility addressed with this insane strife nerf. Old cloak, old siphoning or some unique class ability rework would be greatly accepted. Constantly nerfing or half ass buffing is just getting old. I mean the finally buffed path and now they’re nerfing it again? Lol cmon now. Old cloak would be a large pvp benefit coupled with the new shadow image change, this also would not affect PvE in the slightest. HEAR US ZOS PLZ

Also just pointing out that magdk got snare removal, old cloak seems in line with this buff to an already strong pvp class.

Feanor wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Those skills cost more than 4k magicka or close to it. Also they don’t have the utility of cloak. Snare removal and immunity on cloak would buff NB through the roof.

Cloak has (depending on the morph) the same or higher base cost than wings, just saying ...

It‘s actually a base cost of 3780 for both Wings and Shadowy Disguise. The utility cloak has make it the far more powerful skill though, even if Reflective Plate should get snare removal now (DKs already complaining about snare removal without immunity being useless on a close to 4k cost skill).

Is it really so hard to imagine what snare removal and even immunity for 2s on shadowy disguise would do, especially combined with the new Shadow Image?

You do know nightblades aren’t just proposing this idea out of thin air? The skill used to offer this and they nerfed it. It was 100% necessary with 1.6 magDKs murdering everyone to be able to cloak and get the hell away from them. Now they’re giving MagDK wings a snare removal, which is a scary thought. I don’t think its out of line to ask for a reverted change to cloak (which has been asked for about 2 1/2 years now by the nightblade forums).

akray21

NyassaV wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

I 3rd this. I may be bad, but I have an extremely difficult time weaving 5 LA's in PvP melee rang in the given time frame. I am too busying applying FM, breaking CC, applying FM, rolling, applying FM, blocking, applying FM.... I think you get the point...

Just learn to weave like the rest of us. People are to lazy to simply light attack in between skills. THis is why combat is being continually dumbed down is because of people's laziness like this. It's not very complicated and if puts more time into learning to weave and they beat you then they deserve it.

I think it was Pelican who made a video about light attack weaving in which he included a camera showing his hand too. I'd go look for that. I'd post it for you but I'm on a network which restricts youtube.

I know how to weave, it's easy peasy with a staff or bow, but I'm DW + 2H. Its clunky as hell for a full melee build.

H4RDFOX

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Stamblade changes - PVP perspective only

For the lazy readers: nerf incap by changing major defile to minor OR by reducing the effect of major defile and the damage buff to 3 seconds.

Arguments:
No more guaranteed crit heals in cloak: I do agree a lot on the changes made to shadowy disguise. Nightblades (stam in particular) are the class that is supposed to have amongst the higher burst and kill potential in the game, not the ability to heal like crazy. Now, it will be more difficult to do it, so I'm happy with that (yes, I like hardcore gameplay, just as I like balance).

Incapacitating strike: I do realize a lot of people cry because of this since it is very strong, cheap and they might have some l2p issues, yet I would like to bring up a couple arguments:
- It is the cheapest ulti in the game, yet it is purely single target (not like leaps, meteor, dbos, crescent/empowering sweep, etc.). The only exception to this is soul harvest, obviously, and soul assault. The latter is better under certain pov because u can time it with curse/fissure/power of the light/inferno/deep breath/etc to gain an almost guaranteed kill on a non-blocking target. Yet, I do understand it is not as used as incap and is not perceived as strong now.
- The stun cannot be removed imo. Why? Because the only class/guild ulti that has direct damage as a main source of damage and does not stun are the templar's sweep (crescent & empowering) and soul harvest. As all pvpers might have noticed, it is rare to encounter a templar or magblade using one of these ultis because stun = opportunity window to kill someone. A perfect example is the fact that several magblades use incap for the stun (and defile) over soul harvest. Remove the stun, and 80% of stamblades will be using dbos. We want balance, not removing skills from a class' portfolio.
- The damage is on par with any other direct damage ultimate. Not higher than the ones providing a DoT (crescent sweep, dbos, meteor, and fragment, lol), yet lower than the ones with no secondary effect (leaps), which makes sense. Thus, a nerf to the damage would not make the skill balanced imo.
- A cost increase is not the solution. It will still hit overall too hard and people will continue to cry, as it has been in the past. Moreover, again, it is single target. With the ultimates above mentioned, almost every class can kill several targets if the positioning is correct and the preparatory phase to the ulti is correct. With incap you cannot. You need it to kill, and it allows you to kill only one target. Because of this, I do not believe an increase in the cost is the solution.

Proposed solutions:
Yet, incap is indeed a bit too strong but, especially, too easy to use. Even though it is indeed getting an indirect nerf via the change to empower, it needs a bit of rework. Thus, I propose ONE of the following:
- Change major defile to minor: lets be honest, defile is game changing. VERY strong, yet so common in the game from sets (cyro's crest, durok's), poisons and non-ulti skills (rev bash, warden's circle of death, dark flare). Imo defile should be something "difficult" to achieve and tied to something that does not grant an 100% uptime, just like an ultimate. Because of this, I do believe the removal of defile is wrong.For example: if you incap a non-potato dk, templar or warden and they break free with the reaction of a decent/good player, you will never kill them. They will just hold block and heal enough to get out of the danger zone. You need the defile to kill the tankiest targets, no doubt, but major might be too much, especially because of how well befoul scale (please change the scaling of that perk, prettyplease).
- Decrease the duration of both the major defile and the buff to the damage to 3 seconds (suggested change): 6 seconds is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. I don't like being incapped just as anybody else. Why? Because I know that for SIX seconds I will be at a disadvantage. Any good nightblade does not need and does not deserve so much time to kill someone. Nightblades are assassins, they should hit super hard and fast, and then disappear. This justifies the presence of both the defile and the increase in damage. Moreover, incap is the fundamental skill in every nightblade's killing rotation, and as almost every other class (sorc and warden excluded), they need that ultimate to kill someone that knows at least a bit what they are doing. Nbs (stam especially) are amongst the squishiest classes, and should (and do) have amongst the higher bursts. Yet, this does not justify a 6 second heal debuff and increase in damage. It is too much, not needed and not rewarding. 3 are more than enough to finish a target and will kill the threat that all non-skilled nightblades pose upon anyone in pvp.

I disagree. You have other class ults that provide Major "x" buffs at 8 (sorc storm atronarch, warden winters embrace), and 15 (dk Dragon Knight standard) seconds. Just as you stated, the NB class is an assassination one, and should be able to take out the target and escape into the shadows yet dark cloak is being changed to a non cloak ability. If there is a proposed change from major to minor with "x" time then all other ult's must follow suite. Death stroke and its morphs can be mitigated from block or dodge, so it should remain as is given this and the statements you've made.

BohnT

H4RDFOX wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

Stamblade changes - PVP perspective only

For the lazy readers: nerf incap by changing major defile to minor OR by reducing the effect of major defile and the damage buff to 3 seconds.

Arguments:
No more guaranteed crit heals in cloak: I do agree a lot on the changes made to shadowy disguise. Nightblades (stam in particular) are the class that is supposed to have amongst the higher burst and kill potential in the game, not the ability to heal like crazy. Now, it will be more difficult to do it, so I'm happy with that (yes, I like hardcore gameplay, just as I like balance).

Incapacitating strike: I do realize a lot of people cry because of this since it is very strong, cheap and they might have some l2p issues, yet I would like to bring up a couple arguments:
- It is the cheapest ulti in the game, yet it is purely single target (not like leaps, meteor, dbos, crescent/empowering sweep, etc.). The only exception to this is soul harvest, obviously, and soul assault. The latter is better under certain pov because u can time it with curse/fissure/power of the light/inferno/deep breath/etc to gain an almost guaranteed kill on a non-blocking target. Yet, I do understand it is not as used as incap and is not perceived as strong now.
- The stun cannot be removed imo. Why? Because the only class/guild ulti that has direct damage as a main source of damage and does not stun are the templar's sweep (crescent & empowering) and soul harvest. As all pvpers might have noticed, it is rare to encounter a templar or magblade using one of these ultis because stun = opportunity window to kill someone. A perfect example is the fact that several magblades use incap for the stun (and defile) over soul harvest. Remove the stun, and 80% of stamblades will be using dbos. We want balance, not removing skills from a class' portfolio.
- The damage is on par with any other direct damage ultimate. Not higher than the ones providing a DoT (crescent sweep, dbos, meteor, and fragment, lol), yet lower than the ones with no secondary effect (leaps), which makes sense. Thus, a nerf to the damage would not make the skill balanced imo.
- A cost increase is not the solution. It will still hit overall too hard and people will continue to cry, as it has been in the past. Moreover, again, it is single target. With the ultimates above mentioned, almost every class can kill several targets if the positioning is correct and the preparatory phase to the ulti is correct. With incap you cannot. You need it to kill, and it allows you to kill only one target. Because of this, I do not believe an increase in the cost is the solution.

Proposed solutions:
Yet, incap is indeed a bit too strong but, especially, too easy to use. Even though it is indeed getting an indirect nerf via the change to empower, it needs a bit of rework. Thus, I propose ONE of the following:
- Change major defile to minor: lets be honest, defile is game changing. VERY strong, yet so common in the game from sets (cyro's crest, durok's), poisons and non-ulti skills (rev bash, warden's circle of death, dark flare). Imo defile should be something "difficult" to achieve and tied to something that does not grant an 100% uptime, just like an ultimate. Because of this, I do believe the removal of defile is wrong.For example: if you incap a non-potato dk, templar or warden and they break free with the reaction of a decent/good player, you will never kill them. They will just hold block and heal enough to get out of the danger zone. You need the defile to kill the tankiest targets, no doubt, but major might be too much, especially because of how well befoul scale (please change the scaling of that perk, prettyplease).
- Decrease the duration of both the major defile and the buff to the damage to 3 seconds (suggested change): 6 seconds is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much. I don't like being incapped just as anybody else. Why? Because I know that for SIX seconds I will be at a disadvantage. Any good nightblade does not need and does not deserve so much time to kill someone. Nightblades are assassins, they should hit super hard and fast, and then disappear. This justifies the presence of both the defile and the increase in damage. Moreover, incap is the fundamental skill in every nightblade's killing rotation, and as almost every other class (sorc and warden excluded), they need that ultimate to kill someone that knows at least a bit what they are doing. Nbs (stam especially) are amongst the squishiest classes, and should (and do) have amongst the higher bursts. Yet, this does not justify a 6 second heal debuff and increase in damage. It is too much, not needed and not rewarding. 3 are more than enough to finish a target and will kill the threat that all non-skilled nightblades pose upon anyone in pvp.

I disagree. You have other class ults that provide Major "x" buffs at 8 (sorc storm atronarch, warden winters embrace), and 15 (dk Dragon Knight standard) seconds. Just as you stated, the NB class is an assassination one, and should be able to take out the target and escape into the shadows yet dark cloak is being changed to a non cloak ability. If there is a proposed change from major to minor with "x" time then all other ult's must follow suite. Death stroke and its morphs can be mitigated from block or dodge, so it should remain as is given this and the statements you've made.

With the small difference that they cost more than 2x the cost of incap.

Gilvoth

developers, please do not nerf incap and please do not nerf cloak as these guys here are requesting.
the changes they are requesting simply do not need to be made.

i have been playing nightblade since 2013 beta. many nerfs were given to both dragonight and sorcerer class to bring them inline with the other classes. those people who played those classes are out for revenge against nightblade class and are daily trying to get revenge and allways asking for nightblades to be nerfed. it is not fair and i hope you guys can see what they are doing and also that they stop doing it and move on from this.

this entire thread is filled with requests to nerf nightblade incap and cloak and is totaly false information and missleading the devs into nerfing the class skills and ultimates that nightblade needs in order to not only survive but also be able to do any real damage in PvP.

Kadoin

On Malevolent Offering/Healthy Offering:

Malevolent Offering: This ability and its morphs now smart heal an ally in front of you instantly, instead of healing a specific target over time. Each cast of these abilities will place a damage over time effect on you that drains your health over 8 seconds.

There are three things that bother me about this skill:

1. Although its now a smart heal that can heal allies, apparently it cannot heal yourself anymore (or its bugged, because it does not heal you anymore even with no one else around you). This makes the skill a lesser heal than any other heal in the game in my opinion. What use is a burst heal that drains your health and never heals you? Right now you can apply the debuff after healing NO ONE, considering a debuff is stacked each time it might be a good idea to only apply it AFTER someone has actually been healed. If anyone wants a good laugh, use this skill with no one around over and over...It's your own personal ravage health potion! Also see #2 for another reason why its bad.

2. It's no longer an HoT. While I have to admit it was silly running around with this skill as it is on live, the change means that I can't use it to proc SPC on anyone anymore. On live I found it at least useful in the sense that the heal was NOT smart and I could target an ally across the room with it, that I couldn't cover with Mutagen (Offering has around 2.5-3x the range of Mutagen on live. You can also target people very far away from you in PvP on live with it ). Again, I'll admit that its range was too much, but it did have a use on live.

3. The animation is buggy. Contrary to the "smart heal" changes, apparently you still need to directly have you crosshair on the target it chooses or the animation bugs out and it behaves more like a channel. You are stuck in an animation with your hand up and you cannot do anything. You have to block cancel to get out of the animation. This further lowers the value of the skill.

I honestly can't justify the skill being slotted on my bar with these changes. Some may disagree, but it's my honest opinion about the skill. At the very least what is in bold should be addressed.

H4RDFOX

With respect to the class itself, and the type of ult, the utility behind the ult fits. The NB is that class that eliminates its target. To propose that an ult's buff has to change because of it's low cost yet not look at the use of the ult based on the class and it's purpose is tunnel visioning for nerfs. Especially given the fact that NBs will lose dark cloak, the ult should remain as is. I agree that after ambush, the attacker shouldn't remain in stealth, but the stealth mechanic shouldn't break at initiation of the ability, or in mid flight.

arkansas_ESO

olsborg wrote: »

Blur should get a 2s snare removal/immunity after each cast on the base morph. Magblades need it badly since their mobility wich is key to the class is completely hardcountered by the numerous snares and roots in pvp.

I've asked for the same change in the past, but at this point I don't think you can give Blur a snare purge without making stamblade even stronger--at that point a heavy stamblade would just swap Forward Momentum for Rally and have Major Evasion, high resists, snare purge, and a burst heal all at once. Would rather see Concealed Weapon get a passive snare purge /immunity.

Capt_Morgan

SmellyUnlimited wrote: »

Minaithelan wrote: »

Hello, as a NB healer I'd like to share my thoughts. These are purely PvE as I don't PvP much. Also, all is still subject to testing, and I will try to compliment with more solid numbers as the days on the PTS pass.

Offering skill

• Change from targeted to smart-targeted: Nice to have, as targeting someone in mechanics-heavy environments is really difficult; not impossible, but a bit impractical in some scenarios.
• Change from HoT to Burst heal: Partially agree. Burst healing is nice to have, but a nice burst-HoT such as it is right now is something that differentiates how each class heals. Besides, the HoT was already significant to help tanks during burst phases.
• Change from flat cost to DoT cost: I don't think this is the direction you should aim towards. If you really want all classes to compete in dungeons and trials just answer me this: how are NB healers expected to sustain a tank if they happen to be tank healers in vAS? Yes, sure, now they have a nice addition in the form of a burst heal, but if you have a DoT on top of all the dodgeable and ground based effects the bosses cast, they will simply underperform, especially in end-game where deaths matter a lot.

Refreshing path

• Nerf to healing done: I do not agree with this. Nightblades have almost no team synergies, and most importantly, no way to regenerate resources for the team outside of Energy Orb. This means you need to STOP casting healing spells for an Orb-string-cast (usually 5-6 in a row to assure at least one will reach the tank). And while most of the group will actually benefit from that strong SPC-proc-heal-and-resource-regen combo, the tank will get a single orb with almost no heal for himself... and this assumes enough casts were done for at least one orb to leave the group. Yes, refreshing path may be over-performing a bit (NB healers are currently the kings and queens of Healing Done, and have been since Morrowind hit), but this over-performance does allow to keep a tank's health going while spamming orbs for the group. At the end, this change will make NB healing underperform, if slightly.
• My reasoning is that Devs may be of the idea that the new regen skills will be slotted by tanks. If meta changes towards that direction, then I'd agree to the nerf. But I'd leave this change on the air until we see how the meta shifts.

Soul siphon

• Change to a bigger range: Agree this was needed, especially for newest trials where re-positioning is important.
• Ultimate cost not changed: However, I don't know about this detail. If we didn't have Wardens with a 90 ultimate cost or even the Resto Ulti at 125 I would not mind. Yes, the healing is insane, the buff is nice for burst and the synergy is ok (notice how each adjective slightly worsens?); but this cost is no longer competitive with other similar ultis. We already have morphs that lower ultimate cost, why not also do it for the healing one?

Bolstering Darkness

• Change to lingering buff: Agree with this, as it not only competes but also stacks with Nova, and having both would be a nice addition. Nova still wins though, but at least we are on line with Storm (Wardens).
• Target cap: The problem I see with this skill (and Warden's Storm one) is that the Major Protection buff is limited to 6 people, whereas the 30% damage done reduction will indirectly benefit all 12 participants in a trial, due to how each mechanic plays (also the reason why they can be stacked). So, it may be a change in the right direction but people will still prefer to run with a Templar.

What are NB healers still lacking?

• Team synergies. These are a must, especially for healing skills. Alkosh is almost mandatory in all groups and we need to help the tank keep a good uptime. Adding a single synergy to either Refreshing path or Offering would be ideal as they are the healing skills more in contact with tanks.
• An efficient way to help with resource regeneration. You could simply add this option via a synergy in Offering. Even if only one type of resource is regenerated instead of two (like Shards). Even more: I'd be happy to have my resources (Magicka or Stam) be siphoned to the ally that was smart-targeted with this skill, even on a 1-for-1 ratio. I don't think it may lead to abuses as it is tied to: 1) DoT for caster, 2) Synergy CD, 3) Resource Drain.
• Major Resolve/Ward: Having a way to extend these two buffs in spite of wearing light armor. Right now you need to reapply Path every 6 seconds, which makes the rotation a bit difficult, especially during burst phases, where you need it the most. However, with the changes to Shadow Cloak we should have a way to survive, albeit for only 3 seconds.

These are my thought for now regarding NB healing, if someone wants to discuss and test on the PTS, more than welcome to add me. Cheers!

King’s and Queens of “Healing Done.”.....LoL. Not quite.



Funnel health? Heals only one person, and not nearly strong enough to be a burst heal.

They have zero access to minor mending. Zip. Zilch. So there’s 8% off their healing done.

Malevolent Offering - with the nerf to strife, this already weak heal is made all the worse, because then you have to so ehow heal YOURSELF back up, but yet you have no significant strong heals to do so.

Won’t consider any skills in resto staffs/orbs, because all classes have access to them, so wouldn’t matter if it as a nightblades.

Dragonknights - Kings/Queens of healing received

Templars - (from now until the fabric of Oblivion tears Tamriel asunder) the true King’s/Queens of Healing Done

Nightblade healers have always out parsed templars in healing done. Mainly because of refreshing path and the extra hot of funnel. They just lacked burst heals. And malevolent offering gives minor mending I believe.

H4RDFOX

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

developers, please do not nerf incap and please do not nerf cloak as these guys here are requesting.
the changes they are requesting simply do not need to be made.

i have been playing nightblade since 2013 beta. many nerfs were given to both dragonight and sorcerer class to bring them inline with the other classes. those people who played those classes are out for revenge against nightblade class and are daily trying to get revenge and allways asking for nightblades to be nerfed. it is not fair and i hope you guys can see what they are doing and also that they stop doing it and move on from this.

this entire thread is filled with requests to nerf nightblade incap and cloak and is totaly false information and missleading the devs into nerfing the class skills and ultimates that nightblade needs in order to not only survive but also be able to do any real damage in PvP.

I would agree, and I think the devs see so themselves, that much of the proposed nerfs to the NB class are coming from players who have experienced the death from a NB who is fulfilling their class objective well. I would suggest to my fellow NBs to construct valid counterarguments with logic and reasoning. We all know that NBs are assassins, and they execute as they should. If incap is going to be nerfed, then other ults should be nerfed as well. Incap can be mitigated! if you're stunned because of ambush or surprise attack, then i'm not sorry to break it to you, but it's time to meet Sithis.

NyassaV

akray21 wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

I 3rd this. I may be bad, but I have an extremely difficult time weaving 5 LA's in PvP melee rang in the given time frame. I am too busying applying FM, breaking CC, applying FM, rolling, applying FM, blocking, applying FM.... I think you get the point...

Just learn to weave like the rest of us. People are to lazy to simply light attack in between skills. THis is why combat is being continually dumbed down is because of people's laziness like this. It's not very complicated and if puts more time into learning to weave and they beat you then they deserve it.

I think it was Pelican who made a video about light attack weaving in which he included a camera showing his hand too. I'd go look for that. I'd post it for you but I'm on a network which restricts youtube.

I know how to weave, it's easy peasy with a staff or bow, but I'm DW + 2H. Its clunky as hell for a full melee build.

Honestly sometimes I find DW weaving can be easier than staff at times. But yeah 2H is annoying AF

BohnT

H4RDFOX wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

developers, please do not nerf incap and please do not nerf cloak as these guys here are requesting.
the changes they are requesting simply do not need to be made.

i have been playing nightblade since 2013 beta. many nerfs were given to both dragonight and sorcerer class to bring them inline with the other classes. those people who played those classes are out for revenge against nightblade class and are daily trying to get revenge and allways asking for nightblades to be nerfed. it is not fair and i hope you guys can see what they are doing and also that they stop doing it and move on from this.

this entire thread is filled with requests to nerf nightblade incap and cloak and is totaly false information and missleading the devs into nerfing the class skills and ultimates that nightblade needs in order to not only survive but also be able to do any real damage in PvP.

I would agree, and I think the devs see so themselves, that much of the proposed nerfs to the NB class are coming from players who have experienced the death from a NB who is fulfilling their class objective well. I would suggest to my fellow NBs to construct valid counterarguments with logic and reasoning. We all know that NBs are assassins, and they execute as they should. If incap is going to be nerfed, then other ults should be nerfed as well. Incap can be mitigated! if you're stunned because of ambush or surprise attack, then i'm not sorry to break it to you, but it's time to meet Sithis.

No that's not how balance works.
Incap is the single most overloaded offensive skill in the game on the class with access to the most buffs.
Incap has low cost, good damage, major defile, 20% damage boost, knock down, fast travel time, any available counterplay can be avoided by clever useage.

Also saying you should die after being stunned is just as ridiculous as saying a nightblade should be dead as soon as it leaves cloak for 3 seconds. None of those things should be in the game.

Also you can't have the all powerful assassin's in a MMORPG they simply don't work in such a Environment vs real players. Either they are overperfoming as they are now or they are totally useless because they die in one second.
Removing the stun on incap is the best way to balance stamnb in pvp without touching its performance in pve.
To make a point like the dwarf guy: i main stamnb since closed beta done all vet trials including vhof hm and have 1vXed, dueled and small scaled hundreds of times.

Sparky617

Having Teleport strike and it's morphs "I use Lotus Fan" remove us from stealth really takes away an aspect of Nightblade that I loved. some people use a heavy attack as their sneak attack... I like to Lotus fan in for mine, and thats how it's been for 4 years!!! Why break it now?