PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance

Sun7dance

akray21 wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

I don't really know, why people always complain about the stamblade combo ambush-->Incap.
Against good players, i always miss one Incap at least, because they dodge instantly after getting ambushed.

So, either your Incap actually costs 140 Ulti or you have to use annother combo. However, Incap isn't that op!

I think that people just look at the tooltip and see everything it does and that alone makes people think it is OP. I sometimes use Dawnbreaker instead of incap even on single target, just depends if I need burst or additional damage over time.

That's it!
2nd Option would be to play the 2h Gapcloser and surprise your opponent...maybe.

Feanor wrote: »

Sun7dance wrote: »

I don't really know, why people always complain about the stamblade combo ambush-->Incap.
Against good players, i always miss one Incap at least, because they dodge instantly after getting ambushed.

So, either your Incap actually costs 140 Ulti or you have to use annother combo. However, Incap isn't that op!

But that’s how it should be, no? If a good player uses the available counterplay correctly that’s actually not a mark against the skill. It’s about what it does when it hits.

I don't think so, because weaker players are not the scale. You kill them either way. Doesn't matter, if your Incap would hit or not.
So you only take a look at good opponents, who exactly know, what they do.

NyassaV

@ZOS_Wrobel

If you find the time, It would help the discussion if we heard from you and how you have taken our feedback into consideration.

The path nerf is understandable yet a tad too severe (most believe)

Strife cost increase is stupid, end of the question. If this change were to go through then you would have to revert Siphioning attacks (possibly with different values) as mNB in PvP typically uses Leeching strikes to sustain stamina due to magicka sustain being mostly on point unless spamming defensive skills or doing a full burst rotation

Thank you for the Shade change, can we increase the range on it too it is rather hard to use sometimes

Can fear please still hit 3 targets? It wasn't OP it was just a nice "un-screw" me button that allowed me not to be totally ganged up on and even if I was ganged up on and still died I felt like I wasn't useless. The fear trap is nice and all but the radius for what it does and the amount placed feels too low to warrant using it

Stickbow

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

akray21

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

I 3rd this. I may be bad, but I have an extremely difficult time weaving 5 LA's in PvP melee rang in the given time frame. I am too busying applying FM, breaking CC, applying FM, rolling, applying FM, blocking, applying FM.... I think you get the point...

mr_wazzabi

NyassaV wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

If you find the time, It would help the discussion if we heard from you and how you have taken our feedback into consideration.

The path nerf is understandable yet a tad too severe (most believe)

Strife cost increase is stupid, end of the question. If this change were to go through then you would have to revert Siphioning attacks (possibly with different values) as mNB in PvP typically uses Leeching strikes to sustain stamina due to magicka sustain being mostly on point unless spamming defensive skills or doing a full burst rotation

Thank you for the Shade change, can we increase the range on it too it is rather hard to use sometimes

Can fear please still hit 3 targets? It wasn't OP it was just a nice "un-screw" me button that allowed me not to be totally ganged up on and even if I was ganged up on and still died I felt like I wasn't useless. The fear trap is nice and all but the radius for what it does and the amount placed feels too low to warrant using it

This.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel

Deathztalker

In the top end Vet content they already don’t want Stam NB now with these recent changes combine with the gear set changes it just making Stam NB less viable. What is the plan for balancing?

Capt_Morgan

Feanor wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

IARTOI wrote: »

I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.

Bad idea will kill cloak for every stamina NB and nerf the magika one that are alredy not overperforming also the NB class is hit and run if i want to tank damage i can play a DK.

Cloak is fine buff a bit the counter like magelight radius and flare so the people that have this hate against cloak can.slot a more reliable counter or just l2p.

No need. Revealing flare already does something crazy like 20k tool tip dmg. Honestly getting hit with a revealing flare is a guaranteed death for any nightblade not in heavy armor.

Launch a blinding flare, revealing stealthed and invisible enemies in the target area. Exposed enemies have their movement speed reduced by 50%, take [5089 / 5144 / 5196 / 5250] Flame Damage over 3 seconds, and cannot return to stealth or invisibility for the duration.

That’s the base damage of scorching flare. It also comes with a 10m radius and a projectile arch as high as the Empire State Building. If you get revealed by that...well...

Maybe it's more on DK Idk, all I know is one dude I play with is constantly stoked to go up against nightblades because he swears by this skill. Calls out over discord everytime he kills someone and it's actually pretty often. And speaking as someone who mains a MagBlade cloak is pretty balanced in that often times I'm getting *** by the right builds, though what I think the issue comes from for all the forum QQ is that I do notice I tend to kill the same players over and over and over again because they are weakest and easiest targets. I generally in say a 4 v 4 battle ground will cloak right through the other team, then turn around and gank the sorc or Templar light Armour user standing in the back. So while 1v1 I have a VERY tough fight against Stam sorcs, DKs, and heavy Armour templars I have relatively easy fights against snipe spammers, ranged sorcs who haven't put their shields yet. Basically anyone not prepared. And cloak has the advantage I can a lot more easily pick my targets so I tend to do that, play smart. It's a game of rock paper scissors and I feel like while nightblades usually play towards the scissors roll we only ever hear on here constant complaining from paper, but never hear from rock. If that makes sense.

BohnT

Deathztalker wrote: »

In the top end Vet content they already don’t want Stam NB now with these recent changes combine with the gear set changes it just making Stam NB less viable. What is the plan for balancing?

Stamnb is pulling the highest ST right now + good group buffs with high major slayer uptime.
They are absolutely wanted in endgame trials

NyassaV

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

This is the worst ide I've seen. I HATE playing a sorc because my medicore burst relies on RNG

NyassaV

BohnT wrote: »

Deathztalker wrote: »

In the top end Vet content they already don’t want Stam NB now with these recent changes combine with the gear set changes it just making Stam NB less viable. What is the plan for balancing?

Stamnb is pulling the highest ST right now + good group buffs with high major heroism uptime.
They are absolutely wanted in endgame trials

You mean Major Slayer right?

BohnT

NyassaV wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Deathztalker wrote: »

In the top end Vet content they already don’t want Stam NB now with these recent changes combine with the gear set changes it just making Stam NB less viable. What is the plan for balancing?

Stamnb is pulling the highest ST right now + good group buffs with high major heroism uptime.
They are absolutely wanted in endgame trials

You mean Major Slayer right?

Yeah of course, my phone always put heroism after major due to discussions about shimmering shield

NyassaV

akray21 wrote: »

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

I 3rd this. I may be bad, but I have an extremely difficult time weaving 5 LA's in PvP melee rang in the given time frame. I am too busying applying FM, breaking CC, applying FM, rolling, applying FM, blocking, applying FM.... I think you get the point...

Just learn to weave like the rest of us. People are to lazy to simply light attack in between skills. THis is why combat is being continually dumbed down is because of people's laziness like this. It's not very complicated and if puts more time into learning to weave and they beat you then they deserve it.

I think it was Pelican who made a video about light attack weaving in which he included a camera showing his hand too. I'd go look for that. I'd post it for you but I'm on a network which restricts youtube.

NyassaV

Deathztalker wrote: »

In the top end Vet content they already don’t want Stam NB now with these recent changes combine with the gear set changes it just making Stam NB less viable. What is the plan for balancing?

wut... Dude that is so 4 or 5 patches ago

Kilandros

NyassaV wrote: »

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

I spent a short amount of time trying things out on my Nb healer and NB tank. Here are my initial opinions:


Dark Cloak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIS1_tu5Bf8

4 ticks of healing, each tic can crit. It seems okay, though I think that the Minor Protection buff should be extended to 6 seconds at max rank to be even with the Shadow Barrier passive of 6 seconds of Major Resistances. This will save a little bit on magicka having to use the ability less often for just the Protection buff.

Refreshing Path
I have no comment on the damage reduction, but I feel that The healing amount should be left as it is on Live.

Strife
I personally don't like the cost increase on this skill. It may not bother my Healer as much in the long run, but it really hits my Tank's magicka sustain, causing me to use this skill less often, mostly Per 10 seconds for the HoT effect.

Malevolent Offering

The thorn visual effects of this ability show on who you aim at, instead of who it actually heals.

The tooltip confuses me a little bit. I'm not sure which values of the health cost it's actually using.

The Smart Heal will target pets as well as players. I don't agree with this behavior. I think it should only effect ally players, or at least prioritize them over a pet. (It was targeting the summoned pets from the proc healing sets like Chokethorn.)

The damage this ability does to you over time procs sets like Gorothar, Pirate Skeleton, and Bloodspawn. In the case of Bloodspawn, it will grant you it's 14 ultimate while out of combat.

@ZOS_Wrobel

What does strife have in common with Burning embers? They are both heals, they are both cheap, and TANKS use them both

And what do they not have in common? One is a DoT and the other is a direct direct damage spammable. What else do they not have in common? One allows one class to be highly in demand magicka DPS on Live while the one allows the other to be relegated to the role of tank.

Now please r-elink that bit about "unbiased" commentary lol

NyassaV

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

IARTOI wrote: »

I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.

Bad idea will kill cloak for every stamina NB and nerf the magika one that are alredy not overperforming also the NB class is hit and run if i want to tank damage i can play a DK.

Cloak is fine buff a bit the counter like magelight radius and flare so the people that have this hate against cloak can.slot a more reliable counter or just l2p.

No need. Revealing flare already does something crazy like 20k tool tip dmg. Honestly getting hit with a revealing flare is a guaranteed death for any nightblade not in heavy armor.

Launch a blinding flare, revealing stealthed and invisible enemies in the target area. Exposed enemies have their movement speed reduced by 50%, take [5089 / 5144 / 5196 / 5250] Flame Damage over 3 seconds, and cannot return to stealth or invisibility for the duration.

That’s the base damage of scorching flare. It also comes with a 10m radius and a projectile arch as high as the Empire State Building. If you get revealed by that...well...

Maybe it's more on DK Idk, all I know is one dude I play with is constantly stoked to go up against nightblades because he swears by this skill. Calls out over discord everytime he kills someone and it's actually pretty often. And speaking as someone who mains a MagBlade cloak is pretty balanced in that often times I'm getting *** by the right builds, though what I think the issue comes from for all the forum QQ is that I do notice I tend to kill the same players over and over and over again because they are weakest and easiest targets. I generally in say a 4 v 4 battle ground will cloak right through the other team, then turn around and gank the sorc or Templar light Armour user standing in the back. So while 1v1 I have a VERY tough fight against Stam sorcs, DKs, and heavy Armour templars I have relatively easy fights against snipe spammers, ranged sorcs who haven't put their shields yet. Basically anyone not prepared. And cloak has the advantage I can a lot more easily pick my targets so I tend to do that, play smart. It's a game of rock paper scissors and I feel like while nightblades usually play towards the scissors roll we only ever hear on here constant complaining from paper, but never hear from rock. If that makes sense.

Flare is cheaper than strife on live currently! OMGEALUL balanced

HEBREWHAMMERRR

NyassaV wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

I 3rd this. I may be bad, but I have an extremely difficult time weaving 5 LA's in PvP melee rang in the given time frame. I am too busying applying FM, breaking CC, applying FM, rolling, applying FM, blocking, applying FM.... I think you get the point...

Just learn to weave like the rest of us. People are to lazy to simply light attack in between skills. THis is why combat is being continually dumbed down is because of people's laziness like this. It's not very complicated and if puts more time into learning to weave and they beat you then they deserve it.

I think it was Pelican who made a video about light attack weaving in which he included a camera showing his hand too. I'd go look for that. I'd post it for you but I'm on a network which restricts youtube.

It’s not a matter of “learn to weave” it’s that the ability itself is clunky. They added an extra light attack needed a couple patches ago, this added to the complexity. Couple that with the sound and animation, plus if you have a competent player, the know the burst is coming. The build up just makes the skill meh. It needs something changed. The buff they added making it ani cancellable was huge, however, with that they increased the travel time in the air. We can’t just ever get a utility buff, there’s always some unnessary double edged buff we get. I just was floating an idea that’s been said before. I’ve been playing magblade since day 1 and it’s my only character. I’ve rolled with many many punches and would just like some sort of utility addressed with this insane strife nerf. Old cloak, old siphoning or some unique class ability rework would be greatly accepted. Constantly nerfing or half ass buffing is just getting old. I mean the finally buffed path and now they’re nerfing it again? Lol cmon now. Old cloak would be a large pvp benefit coupled with the new shadow image change, this also would not affect PvE in the slightest. HEAR US ZOS PLZ

HEBREWHAMMERRR

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

akray21 wrote: »

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

I 3rd this. I may be bad, but I have an extremely difficult time weaving 5 LA's in PvP melee rang in the given time frame. I am too busying applying FM, breaking CC, applying FM, rolling, applying FM, blocking, applying FM.... I think you get the point...

Just learn to weave like the rest of us. People are to lazy to simply light attack in between skills. THis is why combat is being continually dumbed down is because of people's laziness like this. It's not very complicated and if puts more time into learning to weave and they beat you then they deserve it.

I think it was Pelican who made a video about light attack weaving in which he included a camera showing his hand too. I'd go look for that. I'd post it for you but I'm on a network which restricts youtube.

It’s not a matter of “learn to weave” it’s that the ability itself is clunky. They added an extra light attack needed a couple patches ago, this added to the complexity. Couple that with the sound and animation, plus if you have a competent player, the know the burst is coming. The build up just makes the skill meh. It needs something changed. The buff they added making it ani cancellable was huge, however, with that they increased the travel time in the air. We can’t just ever get a utility buff, there’s always some unnessary double edged buff we get. I just was floating an idea that’s been said before. I’ve been playing magblade since day 1 and it’s my only character. I’ve rolled with many many punches and would just like some sort of utility addressed with this insane strife nerf. Old cloak, old siphoning or some unique class ability rework would be greatly accepted. Constantly nerfing or half ass buffing is just getting old. I mean the finally buffed path and now they’re nerfing it again? Lol cmon now. Old cloak would be a large pvp benefit coupled with the new shadow image change, this also would not affect PvE in the slightest. HEAR US ZOS PLZ

Also just pointing out that magdk got snare removal, old cloak seems in line with this buff to an already strong pvp class.

VaxtinTheWolf

I'm probably not helping that much with these unrealistic sustain tests but I did another one. This time with Plague Doctor instead of Dragonguard, using more balanced attributes, and limited my use of Potions since I happen to be an Argonian to avoid their passive that grants bonus resources from using them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tINXR1kG-nM

More opinions and suggestions:

Mirage (Blur Morph)
I might be pushing, but maybe while this specific morph is active, up to 5 or 6 allies receive Minor Evasion if they are within 8-10m of the Nightblade using this. The skill itself still provide the casting Nightblade both minor resistances and Major Evasion to themselves, but not the minor Evasion (Allies only).

Grim Focus
I would like to see the stack count, or at least if you have the proc ready to fire, persist maybe 4 seconds after leaving combat. Several places in the came, like Dolmens, drop you out of combat at some point and you loose the benefit before the Final boss has dropped.

Dark Cloak
I still believe the Minor Protection this provides should last up to 6 seconds. I am not sure if this would make the skill too strong or something, but on live it says the Minor Protection lasts 5 seconds on the tooltip so..

Dark Shade
It does an AOE that is basically Whirlwind from the Dual Weild Line. That's great, but to be more consistent I really think it should do that more often. I suggest every 3 or 4 seconds since that's how long the Minor Main debuff this applies lasts anyway.

Strife
I'm repeating, but myself and many others do not like the current value of the cost increase applied to this skill.

Malevolent Offering
I do like the Smart Healing more than the manual Targeting that we have on live, but I agree with other comments that this should also consider the caster as an appropriate target like many other healing skills (Honor The Dead, Healing Ward etc.) and prioritize players over pets. Or maybe not heal pets at all, and only players.

I am not sure if it should be a burst heal, or a strong HoT to keep the whole Nightblade theme of healing over time, though I do favor the Burst heal to assist in dealing with incoming spike damage.

Siphoning Attacks
It may have been in another thread, but I saw a comment suggesting to adjust this slightly to match comparatively with some Ability or Passive that the Warden class has. Basically, I would like to see Heavy attacks be viable for the resource return as well. Light attacks will return 105 of the respective resource, and Heavy Attacks would restore something like 315.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

kojou wrote: »

Strife cost increase shifts balance to far towards force pulse as a Nightblade's damage spammable. Strife either needs a buff to balance it, or the cost needs to be reduced, as it is now I don't think it will get slotted on most DPS builds.

Agree, I would like a middle ground here.

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx

Stickbow wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

<snip> Make merciless similar like a proc like crystal frags? Give us some sort of utility instead of constantly just hitting us with a nerf hammer every patch. <snip>

This may be one of the best ideas I've seen - though I'm sure someone would find a way to disagree. It should probably be posted in some thread on "suggestions for improvement".

The need to build a good rotation and weave to proc Merciless enough to boost DPS is actually a cool thing in some ways - it makes you have to pay attention and not just mash keys. On the other hand, it seems NB is the only class that has something that requires this much attention (crystal frag being the only close exception).

If there is a desire to make classes truly balanced at the top tiers -- i.e., nerfing things to make the leet player less leet (and generally hurting the average player by changing what you can weave/how much damage it does/etc., Merciless Resolve becomes harder and harder to manage in real world situations vs. on a dummy.

For the record - I am not a newb who just rolled stamblade/magblade thinking it was easy mode - I actually *know* that using Merciless resolve makes it one of the harder classes to dig every bit of DPS you can out of. I have pretty much one of every dps "style" (class + stam/mag) at CP160, plus a tank and main healer, and play them enough to see the difference between them in both solo/group PVE and solo/group PVP. (Why do I feel obligated to say something like this in every NB thread?)

Lol. My friend moved to Magblade from Magsorc and said Merciless is like frags but on your own terms and better. I'd prefer it not to be like Frags unless it got a damage boost to be on the level of frags haha.

Millz

Incap still way over performing. Change major defile to minor increase cost to soul assault cost

JobooAGS

Millz wrote: »

Incap still way over performing. Change major defile to minor increase cost to soul assault cost

And you killed stamblade pve with an increase cost. No, if incap were to be nerfed, remove the stun and remove defile from death stroke leaving incap with defile

Strider__Roshin

Millz wrote: »

Incap still way over performing. Change major defile to minor increase cost to soul assault cost

What a great idea! So long as the damage is the same amount. 100k tool tip for 100 ult? Sign me up! Heck you can remove the stun, damage bonus, and the defile for all I care with that amount of damage lol

Jorsen

Blackleopardex wrote: »

The way I like to look at it: The Dark Cloak Morph now is a tanking skill, after all we get healing based on missing health. Not very useful on a low health character. Because of this the tank will not need the malevolent offering anymore? Also I don't know any NB-tanks that uses the cloak on the live patch today, at least not for tanking.

For the healing in general for NB, I would like to so the mag-blade in pvp depends less on the resto-staff when running no cloak build and I don't think the dark cloak fixes that? I will have to test it...

Edit: The sad part about the Dark Cloak is that NB-tanks never really befitted from having high health. Now we have 2 skills that will do that. However I don't think my personal health on the tank will go that much up because of the benefit from having lots of magicka to increase the healing from: refreshing path, funnel health, sap essence and orbs...

From a PVE carebear perspective: I don't need an extra heal. I am a nightblade because I like invisibility and sneakiness (when I'm not tanking). So, if I'm going to be offered a tool to "help with tanking", I don't want to give up my class identity for it. Otherwise, might as well be another class.

Delegator

The changes to Malevolent Offering are pointless -- the ability is terribly designed and basically worthless, especially in PVP.

My nightblade tank can run around with 72k HP in PVP -- the Dark Cloak change will be one helluva heal in that case.

Minaithelan

Some more feedback on NB healing

Funnel Health
I haven't been able to test this skill's nerf to cost in a dungeon setting (random dungeons take lots to find people). But my guess is that NB healers won't feel a difference as we already have lots of sustain. I think the nerf is also aimed towards those dps-consists-of-Magblade-only-Trials, and also some dungeons strategies that were leaving healers out of compositions. I have only used the other morph to clear vMA so IDK about its utility in PvP and thus won't comment any further.

Offering Skill
Damn... like damn for real, Devs nailed it. Not only is this skill now a nice burst heal, but I think the important part is that cancelling its animation is fast, even without cancelling the animation is so smooth. I guess I never really felt it because you needed to aim before, which took a bit of time.
Another thing I liked is that the Health cost is actually divided in two: a Flat cost plus a mild DoT, this makes healing in Trials a bit safer. Though I have yet to find a group to test this skill in a veteran Trial though, especially with some mechanics in Cloudrest in which you are constantly being damaged. If, and only if, in spite of this skill's health cost NB healers are able to survive HM Trials, then the class won't be shunned as healers.
What I don't like about the skill is that it cannot be used to save yourself from damage. Why not add a Magicka cost when it is casted on self? Even if it is a big cost, I'd say is worth it. Otherwise you are actually not helping the healing role: You need to stay alive in order to keep providing buffs/debuffs/health to the group.

Refreshing Path
I didn't have CMX on and thus could not measure my healing done, so I'll wait until I find a Vet-Trial group, even if it is vAA. Stil, if this is the Tank and Healer default morph, why not remove the Major Expedition? I know I'll miss it because it helps a lot when repositioning, but I would not mind to change that for a group synergy. Tanks and healers are supports, and we should provide to the group... I think it is time you add Minor Stamina Steal, even if it is for 2-3 seconds, or if this is too strong maybe a "shadow shield" (bonus points if a percentage of the remaining shield becomes resources). TBH at this point I would not mind a synergy that makes people do the Redguard male dance, as long as we help tanks proc Alkosh.

Dark Cloak
I have yet to test it, I only see myself using it as Tank healer for vAS, but only if the duration is extended. I don't like the animation though, something like the one Siphoning Strikes has would be more apt for the new effect.

Soul Siphon
Ulti cost makes it less desirable than less say Resto Staff, by lowering cost I would actually have to think and plan, instead of just going for the cheaper option.

Bolstering Darkness
I actually missed a big detail here. If you are offering a mitigation skill, why not to both morphs? Let's do a quick comparison.

1. Base Nova --> AoE damage, whole-team-Mitigation, Damage synergy, expensive
   • Morph 1--> Stronger synergy
   • Morph 2 --> Enemies are slowed
2. Base Darkness --> AoE slow, Area-only-Mitigation (and limited to 6 people), Invisibility/Speed/Healing Synergy, mild cost
   • Morph 1 --> More mitigation for yourself, now lingering mitigation, but still restricted to 6 people
   • Morph 2 --> AoE damage

I think our skill is overloaded... with some useless things in a PvE setting. Why would I want to turn invisible in a Trial where most mobs and all bosses are immune to it? Providing speed for a mitigation that promotes stacking I think is not the best of ideas; and lastly, a healing synergy that is almost as good as the siphoning one? Then why have a healing ulti at all?
For the skill to see more use in all settings (offensive, defensive, PvE and PvP) it may be a bit difficult, my proposal:

• Base Darkness --> AoE-slow, AoE-lingering-mitigation, Invisibility synergy
• Morph 1 --> Add the speed synergy and AoE damage
• Morph 2 --> Remove invisibility, double the amount of buffed allies (12, same as a Trial group)

Any discussion is welcomed as well as Trial groups in the PTS

RavenSworn

Jorsen wrote: »

Blackleopardex wrote: »

The way I like to look at it: The Dark Cloak Morph now is a tanking skill, after all we get healing based on missing health. Not very useful on a low health character. Because of this the tank will not need the malevolent offering anymore? Also I don't know any NB-tanks that uses the cloak on the live patch today, at least not for tanking.

For the healing in general for NB, I would like to so the mag-blade in pvp depends less on the resto-staff when running no cloak build and I don't think the dark cloak fixes that? I will have to test it...

Edit: The sad part about the Dark Cloak is that NB-tanks never really befitted from having high health. Now we have 2 skills that will do that. However I don't think my personal health on the tank will go that much up because of the benefit from having lots of magicka to increase the healing from: refreshing path, funnel health, sap essence and orbs...

From a PVE carebear perspective: I don't need an extra heal. I am a nightblade because I like invisibility and sneakiness (when I'm not tanking). So, if I'm going to be offered a tool to "help with tanking", I don't want to give up my class identity for it. Otherwise, might as well be another class.

But you don't. There's shadowy disguise. Dark cloak is just the other morph.

SmellyUnlimited

Minaithelan wrote: »

Hello, as a NB healer I'd like to share my thoughts. These are purely PvE as I don't PvP much. Also, all is still subject to testing, and I will try to compliment with more solid numbers as the days on the PTS pass.

Offering skill

• Change from targeted to smart-targeted: Nice to have, as targeting someone in mechanics-heavy environments is really difficult; not impossible, but a bit impractical in some scenarios.
• Change from HoT to Burst heal: Partially agree. Burst healing is nice to have, but a nice burst-HoT such as it is right now is something that differentiates how each class heals. Besides, the HoT was already significant to help tanks during burst phases.
• Change from flat cost to DoT cost: I don't think this is the direction you should aim towards. If you really want all classes to compete in dungeons and trials just answer me this: how are NB healers expected to sustain a tank if they happen to be tank healers in vAS? Yes, sure, now they have a nice addition in the form of a burst heal, but if you have a DoT on top of all the dodgeable and ground based effects the bosses cast, they will simply underperform, especially in end-game where deaths matter a lot.

Refreshing path

• Nerf to healing done: I do not agree with this. Nightblades have almost no team synergies, and most importantly, no way to regenerate resources for the team outside of Energy Orb. This means you need to STOP casting healing spells for an Orb-string-cast (usually 5-6 in a row to assure at least one will reach the tank). And while most of the group will actually benefit from that strong SPC-proc-heal-and-resource-regen combo, the tank will get a single orb with almost no heal for himself... and this assumes enough casts were done for at least one orb to leave the group. Yes, refreshing path may be over-performing a bit (NB healers are currently the kings and queens of Healing Done, and have been since Morrowind hit), but this over-performance does allow to keep a tank's health going while spamming orbs for the group. At the end, this change will make NB healing underperform, if slightly.
• My reasoning is that Devs may be of the idea that the new regen skills will be slotted by tanks. If meta changes towards that direction, then I'd agree to the nerf. But I'd leave this change on the air until we see how the meta shifts.

Soul siphon

• Change to a bigger range: Agree this was needed, especially for newest trials where re-positioning is important.
• Ultimate cost not changed: However, I don't know about this detail. If we didn't have Wardens with a 90 ultimate cost or even the Resto Ulti at 125 I would not mind. Yes, the healing is insane, the buff is nice for burst and the synergy is ok (notice how each adjective slightly worsens?); but this cost is no longer competitive with other similar ultis. We already have morphs that lower ultimate cost, why not also do it for the healing one?

Bolstering Darkness

• Change to lingering buff: Agree with this, as it not only competes but also stacks with Nova, and having both would be a nice addition. Nova still wins though, but at least we are on line with Storm (Wardens).
• Target cap: The problem I see with this skill (and Warden's Storm one) is that the Major Protection buff is limited to 6 people, whereas the 30% damage done reduction will indirectly benefit all 12 participants in a trial, due to how each mechanic plays (also the reason why they can be stacked). So, it may be a change in the right direction but people will still prefer to run with a Templar.

What are NB healers still lacking?

• Team synergies. These are a must, especially for healing skills. Alkosh is almost mandatory in all groups and we need to help the tank keep a good uptime. Adding a single synergy to either Refreshing path or Offering would be ideal as they are the healing skills more in contact with tanks.
• An efficient way to help with resource regeneration. You could simply add this option via a synergy in Offering. Even if only one type of resource is regenerated instead of two (like Shards). Even more: I'd be happy to have my resources (Magicka or Stam) be siphoned to the ally that was smart-targeted with this skill, even on a 1-for-1 ratio. I don't think it may lead to abuses as it is tied to: 1) DoT for caster, 2) Synergy CD, 3) Resource Drain.
• Major Resolve/Ward: Having a way to extend these two buffs in spite of wearing light armor. Right now you need to reapply Path every 6 seconds, which makes the rotation a bit difficult, especially during burst phases, where you need it the most. However, with the changes to Shadow Cloak we should have a way to survive, albeit for only 3 seconds.

These are my thought for now regarding NB healing, if someone wants to discuss and test on the PTS, more than welcome to add me. Cheers!

King’s and Queens of “Healing Done.”.....LoL. Not quite.



Funnel health? Heals only one person, and not nearly strong enough to be a burst heal.

They have zero access to minor mending. Zip. Zilch. So there’s 8% off their healing done.

Malevolent Offering - with the nerf to strife, this already weak heal is made all the worse, because then you have to so ehow heal YOURSELF back up, but yet you have no significant strong heals to do so.

Won’t consider any skills in resto staffs/orbs, because all classes have access to them, so wouldn’t matter if it as a nightblades.

Dragonknights - Kings/Queens of healing received

Templars - (from now until the fabric of Oblivion tears Tamriel asunder) the true King’s/Queens of Healing Done

olsborg

Blur should get a 2s snare removal/immunity after each cast on the base morph. Magblades need it badly since their mobility wich is key to the class is completely hardcountered by the numerous snares and roots in pvp.

Dark Cloak needs to have the minor protection last at the very least the same amount of time that major ward lasts (from shadow barrier passive) so tanks can rely on it much more. No tank is gonna have enough uptime on a 3s minor protection.

The Hemorrhage passive needs to affect self healing again since stamblades have the worst healing on the planet. Atlest give them something.

Change incap so it debuffs with minor defile instead of major defile.

Feanor

@olsborg

No class has efficient snare removal outside mist form, Shuffle and FM. Even if DKs get it on wings and Templars can purge that’s still not efficient because of the cost attached to the skills that do the removal. There isn’t any snare immunity other than Shuffle.

So why do you want to give it to NB as a class skill? Which gets a huge mobility buff with the new Shadow Image anyway?

Outside a small window with CC you’d never be able to catch a NB with snare removal and immunity at disposal.