The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance
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ChefZero✭✭✭✭Blackleopardex wrote: »Malevolent Offering is very important to NB tank , smart healing meaning we can't self heal much or none? ... ZOS , is it possible change to effect on self and one front ally ?
Otherwise , I would request to reverse the change because it will be a NB tank nightmare skill .
Is it now? I have only used malevolent offering in a few situations on my NB-tank. More often on the healer... That said the new change is a full on healer ability, not so sure it's gonna be used tho :P In conclusion I have no problem with them changing it, but not sure what they have done here now..
At PTS, yes.
All depends on the play style.
It could be a strong HOT for NB tank, plus minor mending, all our HOT abilities could be Burst up.
Good to healer but bad to tank after changed.
Why should someone use Malovent Offering (PTS version) on his bar? Why a PvE healer? What are the pros and cons beside no magicka costs compared to other heal skills?
The MO (live version) is going in the right direction and gives any kind of build new opportunities. It's a HoT what I personally prefer, you can precast it for engaging something and you can plan the the Lost of health after casting like cast > block, cast > dodge roll, cast > shield, etc to minimize to get bursted the one or two seconds after casting.
Why should a PvP healer for example use MO (PTS) for healing only one buddie and weaken himself 8s in a situation he can always be focused by enemies?
IMO MO was good basically, the only have to rework the targeting mechanics.PC EU - DC only1 -
IARTOI✭✭✭I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
I have to disagree. The only reason cloak is a problem is due to nbs access to the highest frontloaded burst combine this with the ability to engage and disengage at will is devastating.
You can try to nuke your enemy in the first seconds of a fight and then go back into cloak if it fails and repeat it until it works. There is no incentive for a nb to stay in open combat. They can do their setup from stealth or with bow light attacks from range to avoid open combat.
If you force nbs to stay longer in combat because their frontloaded burst gets nerfed, cloak won't be much of an issue because a nb that disengage isn't much of a threat then.
As i said multiple times this can be done best by removing the stun on incap.1 -
Jaxaxo✭✭✭✭I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
I have to disagree. The only reason cloak is a problem is due to nbs access to the highest frontloaded burst combine this with the ability to engage and disengage at will is devastating.
You can try to nuke your enemy in the first seconds of a fight and then go back into cloak if it fails and repeat it until it works. There is no incentive for a nb to stay in open combat. They can do their setup from stealth or with bow light attacks from range to avoid open combat.
If you force nbs to stay longer in combat because their frontloaded burst gets nerfed, cloak won't be much of an issue because a nb that disengage isn't much of a threat then.
As i said multiple times this can be done best by removing the stun on incap.
Why not both?
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BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
I have to disagree. The only reason cloak is a problem is due to nbs access to the highest frontloaded burst combine this with the ability to engage and disengage at will is devastating.
You can try to nuke your enemy in the first seconds of a fight and then go back into cloak if it fails and repeat it until it works. There is no incentive for a nb to stay in open combat. They can do their setup from stealth or with bow light attacks from range to avoid open combat.
If you force nbs to stay longer in combat because their frontloaded burst gets nerfed, cloak won't be much of an issue because a nb that disengage isn't much of a threat then.
As i said multiple times this can be done best by removing the stun on incap.
Why not both?
Because it would be too much, if you kill nightblades defence you will only face gankers from that point.
If people can't survive in a fight for more than 4 seconds they will try to end that fight in 3 seconds and this is what will happen when they nerf cloak or nightblades defence overall.1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.Edited by akray21 on April 18, 2018 1:05PM2 -
ChefZero✭✭✭✭I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
I have to disagree. The only reason cloak is a problem is due to nbs access to the highest frontloaded burst combine this with the ability to engage and disengage at will is devastating.
You can try to nuke your enemy in the first seconds of a fight and then go back into cloak if it fails and repeat it until it works. There is no incentive for a nb to stay in open combat. They can do their setup from stealth or with bow light attacks from range to avoid open combat.
If you force nbs to stay longer in combat because their frontloaded burst gets nerfed, cloak won't be much of an issue because a nb that disengage isn't much of a threat then.
As i said multiple times this can be done best by removing the stun on incap.
IMO the burst is ok but to fail with burst should be more punished. Also clock can be changed without direct nerf. Basically it's a skill with two values: cost and duration. So why not increase both?
For example costs compared clock and efficient purge: 3654 and 4872 magicka. Why not increase the costs and duration by 30%, 4872 and 3.5s duration? Or double it to 7308 and 5s? This wouldn't nerf clock on a direct way but kill the spamability and increase the risk& reward factor.PC EU - DC only0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
Bad idea will kill cloak for every stamina NB and nerf the magika one that are alredy not overperforming also the NB class is hit and run if i want to tank damage i can play a DK.
Cloak is fine buff a bit the counter like magelight radius and flare so the people that have this hate against cloak can.slot a more reliable counter or just l2p.Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on April 18, 2018 1:18PM0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
Considered and declined. Thanks for that option
Also revealing flare. What you should be asking for is a stamina way to reveal hidden opponents.
So - invis in general, it's a slotted skill. Every slotted skill should have a counter. Every damage has a heal, every debuff has a purge. If you want to counter invis/sneak, or anything, slot a skill that counters it.
NB are strong in PVP but weak in PVE (in 2/3 of their roles anyway) All changes have to be balanced and all areas considered.Edited by aeowulf on April 18, 2018 2:02PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
My light attacks on my stamblade deal between 2-3.5k damage and are a huge part of my damage in order for empowered incap to be better than an LA weave it has to deal 5x the damage before the empower to be worth it.
2k*5= 10k
3.5k*5= 17.5k
I haven't seen many non enpowered incap which deal this much damage. A LA weave is almost always better than getting your next skill empowered unless you are a magicka char using DW or 2h0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
My light attacks on my stamblade deal between 2-3.5k damage and are a huge part of my damage in order for empowered incap to be better than an LA weave it has to deal 5x the damage before the empower to be worth it.
2k*5= 10k
3.5k*5= 17.5k
I haven't seen many non enpowered incap which deal this much damage. A LA weave is almost always better than getting your next skill empowered unless you are a magicka char using DW or 2h
I'm still not following.
I looked at my build on the build editor and found the following (fully buffed, no battle spirit).
Incap = 18,348 dmg
Dual Wield LA = 4,034 dmg
Old Empower
Incap (18,348) * 1.2 = 22,018
+ LA (4,034)
= 26,052 total dmg
New Empower
LA (4,034) dmg * 1.4 = 5,648
+ Incap (18,348)
= 23,996 total dmg
EDIT: just trying to understandEdited by akray21 on April 18, 2018 2:16PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
My light attacks on my stamblade deal between 2-3.5k damage and are a huge part of my damage in order for empowered incap to be better than an LA weave it has to deal 5x the damage before the empower to be worth it.
2k*5= 10k
3.5k*5= 17.5k
I haven't seen many non enpowered incap which deal this much damage. A LA weave is almost always better than getting your next skill empowered unless you are a magicka char using DW or 2h
I'm still not following.
I looked at my build on the build editor and found the following (fully buffed, no battle spirit).
Incap = 18,348 dmg
Dual Wield LA = 4,034 dmg
Old Empower
Incap (18,348) * 1.2 = 22,018
+ LA (4,034)
= 26,052 total dmg
New Empower
LA (4,034) dmg * 1.4 = 5,648
+ Incap (18,348)
= 23,996
Right now you can't LA weave + get that empowered incap in the same gcd.
You have either only the empowered incap or the normal incap + an empowered LA.
For your numbers we have this even without an empower on LA:
Incap 22,018
With LA and no empower: 22,382
With empowered LA: 23,188.8
With new empower: 23,995.6
So with the new changes your damage is increased not decreased.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Can you make it so Dark Cloak utilizes either your spell or weapon crit depending on which is higher?2 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
He's wrong it's a nerf. Due to the changes with light attack when empowered my light attacks hit for 1k more than they do on live (I use a 2H) against a target dummy. And last I checked my Incap does more than 5k.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
He's wrong it's a nerf. Due to the changes with light attack when empowered my light attacks hit for 1k more than they do on live (I use a 2H) against a target dummy. And last I checked my Incap does more than 5k.
You are wrong here. You have to take the full LA damage because you don't have it when you want an empowered incap.
You can't do skill+LA+bash in the same gcd you can only do LA+skill+bash in the same gcd.0 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
My light attacks on my stamblade deal between 2-3.5k damage and are a huge part of my damage in order for empowered incap to be better than an LA weave it has to deal 5x the damage before the empower to be worth it.
2k*5= 10k
3.5k*5= 17.5k
I haven't seen many non enpowered incap which deal this much damage. A LA weave is almost always better than getting your next skill empowered unless you are a magicka char using DW or 2h
I'm still not following.
I looked at my build on the build editor and found the following (fully buffed, no battle spirit).
Incap = 18,348 dmg
Dual Wield LA = 4,034 dmg
Old Empower
Incap (18,348) * 1.2 = 22,018
+ LA (4,034)
= 26,052 total dmg
New Empower
LA (4,034) dmg * 1.4 = 5,648
+ Incap (18,348)
= 23,996
Right now you can't LA weave + get that empowered incap in the same gcd.
You have either only the empowered incap or the normal incap + an empowered LA.
For your numbers we have this even without an empower on LA:
Incap 22,018
With LA and no empower: 22,382
With empowered LA: 23,188.8
With new empower: 23,995.6
So with the new changes your damage is increased not decreased.
Ok, I kind of get what you are saying now. But on live I'm always going to follow my Incap with a LA + (SA or KB), so I am still getting both the empowered Incap + the LA, just not in the same GCD. So the burst will be better in a 1 second window, but not a 2 second window?
EDIT: I'm starting to think the change is not a buff or a nerf (unless you are building a LA build).Edited by akray21 on April 18, 2018 2:45PM0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
He's wrong it's a nerf. Due to the changes with light attack when empowered my light attacks hit for 1k more than they do on live (I use a 2H) against a target dummy. And last I checked my Incap does more than 5k.
You are wrong here. You have to take the full LA damage because you don't have it when you want an empowered incap.
You can't do skill+LA+bash in the same gcd you can only do LA+skill+bash in the same gcd.
I see what you're saying. Fair enough, I'm wrong then. It's not much of a buff though.0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
He's wrong it's a nerf. Due to the changes with light attack when empowered my light attacks hit for 1k more than they do on live (I use a 2H) against a target dummy. And last I checked my Incap does more than 5k.
You are wrong here. You have to take the full LA damage because you don't have it when you want an empowered incap.
You can't do skill+LA+bash in the same gcd you can only do LA+skill+bash in the same gcd.
I see what you're saying. Fair enough, I'm wrong then. It's not much of a buff though.
True but i see people here screaming that ganking is being removed when in fact it got buffed for everyone who can LA weave.0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Ok, I kind of get what you are saying now. But on live I'm always going to follow my Incap with a LA + (SA or KB), so I am still getting both the empowered Incap + the LA, just not in the same GCD. So the burst will be better in a 1 second window, but not a 2 second window?
EDIT: I'm starting to think the change is not a buff or a nerf (unless you are building a LA build).
The follow up after Incap will be the same anyway.
If we look at the whole combo (with your numbers)
Combo with old empowered Incap: Ambush -> Incap (22 018) -> LA (4840) -> ... = 26 858 total dmg
Combo with LA weave and old empower: Ambush -> LA (4840) -> Incap (18 348) -> LA (4840) -> ... = 28 028 total dmg
Combo with LA weave and new empower: Ambush -> LA (5647) -> Incap (18 348) -> LA (4840) -> ... = 28 835 total dmg
Edited by Rianai on April 18, 2018 2:51PM1 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I see people crying "nerf incap"... but remember that NB is already get some nerfs this patch. The empower change really is a nerf to incap as NB's use the following combo (ambush, cloak, incap). In this case incap will hit for 20% less and there will be no more HUGE incaps. That being said I do think the other things going on with the skill are a bit much. I would be ok with reducing the duration of the debuffs to 3 seconds, or remove either the defile or the stun.
EDIT: the other big nerf is NB's not getting crit heals in cloak, that is HUGE.
The empower change is a buff not a nerf.
You have more damage with a ambush+La+Incap rather than ambush+empowered incap. Increasing the LA damage is a buff to ganking not a nerf.
Also nb got one of the strongest buffs in the game: shade doesn't require a target to be put down that's the biggest mobility buff any class has ever seen.
When you compare Soul Harvest to incap in combat situations there is only one difference and it's the stun.
Soul harvest is a balanced skill, incap isn't so the only thing that makes incap OP is that stun and it has to go.
On top remove the defile from soul harvest and only keep it on incap.
Do you have the math for this? I'm genuinely interested... I was under the assumption that empower change would reduce burst, but increase sustained damage.
But I think you are right about the stun, out of everything I think removing it would be the best change.
My light attacks on my stamblade deal between 2-3.5k damage and are a huge part of my damage in order for empowered incap to be better than an LA weave it has to deal 5x the damage before the empower to be worth it.
2k*5= 10k
3.5k*5= 17.5k
I haven't seen many non enpowered incap which deal this much damage. A LA weave is almost always better than getting your next skill empowered unless you are a magicka char using DW or 2h
I'm still not following.
I looked at my build on the build editor and found the following (fully buffed, no battle spirit).
Incap = 18,348 dmg
Dual Wield LA = 4,034 dmg
Old Empower
Incap (18,348) * 1.2 = 22,018
+ LA (4,034)
= 26,052 total dmg
New Empower
LA (4,034) dmg * 1.4 = 5,648
+ Incap (18,348)
= 23,996
Right now you can't LA weave + get that empowered incap in the same gcd.
You have either only the empowered incap or the normal incap + an empowered LA.
For your numbers we have this even without an empower on LA:
Incap 22,018
With LA and no empower: 22,382
With empowered LA: 23,188.8
With new empower: 23,995.6
So with the new changes your damage is increased not decreased.
Ok, I kind of get what you are saying now. But on live I'm always going to follow my Incap with a LA + (SA or KB), so I am still getting both the empowered Incap + the LA, just not in the same GCD. So the burst will be better in a 1 second window, but not a 2 second window?
EDIT: I'm starting to think the change is not a buff or a nerf (unless you are building a LA build).
No the damage is almost always higher if you La weave all the time.
For a 2 seconds window you still lack the damage of the first possible weave which is a loss in damage. Don't think to complicated here.
Imagine you and a friend are driving with 2 cars at the same speed but you are 10 m infront of him. No matter what he will never be able to overtake you when both of you keep the same speed.1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭
Ok, I kind of get what you are saying now. But on live I'm always going to follow my Incap with a LA + (SA or KB), so I am still getting both the empowered Incap + the LA, just not in the same GCD. So the burst will be better in a 1 second window, but not a 2 second window?
EDIT: I'm starting to think the change is not a buff or a nerf (unless you are building a LA build).
The follow up after Incap will be the same anyway.
If we look at the whole combo (with your numbers)
Combo with old empowered Incap: Ambush -> Incap (22 018) -> LA (4840) -> ... = 26 858 total dmg
Combo with LA weave and old empower: Ambush -> LA (4840) -> Incap (18 348) -> LA (4840) -> ... = 28 028 total dmg
Combo with LA weave and new empower: Ambush -> LA (5647) -> Incap (18 348) -> LA (4840) -> ... = 28 835 total dmg
Ok, NOW I think I got it. So it is a buff of 2.88% (in this case).
For a 2 seconds window you still lack the damage of the first possible weave which is a loss in damage. Don't think to complicated here.
Imagine you and a friend are driving with 2 cars at the same speed but you are 10 m infront of him. No matter what he will never be able to overtake you when both of you keep the same speed.
This helped too! Thanks.0 -
Sun7dance✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't really know, why people always complain about the stamblade combo ambush-->Incap.
Against good players, i always miss one Incap at least, because they dodge instantly after getting ambushed.
So, either your Incap actually costs 140 Ulti or you have to use annother combo. However, Incap isn't that op!PS5|EU4 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭I don't really know, why people always complain about the stamblade combo ambush-->Incap.
Against good players, i always miss one Incap at least, because they dodge instantly after getting ambushed.
So, either your Incap actually costs 140 Ulti or you have to use annother combo. However, Incap isn't that op!
I think that people just look at the tooltip and see everything it does and that alone makes people think it is OP. I sometimes use Dawnbreaker instead of incap even on single target, just depends if I need burst or additional damage over time.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't really know, why people always complain about the stamblade combo ambush-->Incap.
Against good players, i always miss one Incap at least, because they dodge instantly after getting ambushed.
So, either your Incap actually costs 140 Ulti or you have to use annother combo. However, Incap isn't that op!
But that’s how it should be, no? If a good player uses the available counterplay correctly that’s actually not a mark against the skill. It’s about what it does when it hits.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Capt_Morgan✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
Bad idea will kill cloak for every stamina NB and nerf the magika one that are alredy not overperforming also the NB class is hit and run if i want to tank damage i can play a DK.
Cloak is fine buff a bit the counter like magelight radius and flare so the people that have this hate against cloak can.slot a more reliable counter or just l2p.
No need. Revealing flare already does something crazy like 20k tool tip dmg. Honestly getting hit with a revealing flare is a guaranteed death for any nightblade not in heavy armor.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Capt_Morgan wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I know after this post most NB players will criticize me but this will bring to NB a balance. Shadowy Disguise skill need some change. As we all know NBs always doing this rolldodge+sneak all the times and its really hard to detect them. I mean for detection best way is using piercing mark but not everyone has that skill and mage light sometimes not helping. My offer is bring cloak fatigue so every next cast in 5 sec cost more magicka like sorcerer's streak fatigue. This would be fair enaugh. Consider it.
Bad idea will kill cloak for every stamina NB and nerf the magika one that are alredy not overperforming also the NB class is hit and run if i want to tank damage i can play a DK.
Cloak is fine buff a bit the counter like magelight radius and flare so the people that have this hate against cloak can.slot a more reliable counter or just l2p.
No need. Revealing flare already does something crazy like 20k tool tip dmg. Honestly getting hit with a revealing flare is a guaranteed death for any nightblade not in heavy armor.
Launch a blinding flare, revealing stealthed and invisible enemies in the target area. Exposed enemies have their movement speed reduced by 50%, take [5089 / 5144 / 5196 / 5250] Flame Damage over 3 seconds, and cannot return to stealth or invisibility for the duration.
That’s the base damage of scorching flare. It also comes with a 10m radius and a projectile arch as high as the Empire State Building. If you get revealed by that...well...Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭I will not repeat after everyone why Strife cost increase is too huge.
I just want to add, that from my expirence playing Magblade (more than 1 year every day), Strife cost set at 2700 magicka cost is too much for that what it provides.Founder of Call of the Undaunted
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