PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Psijic Order Skill Line

IARTOI

I have concerns about Maditate skill. Its really cool that skill has no cost this is advantege. But alongside this there are big disadvantages. First of all when you cast this ability you can not cast any other skill and can not move. But you are open to all attacks and its interruptable. How can we use this to all classes? (Talking about PvP) We need to get out of combat, run away from enemy use this ability. Who can manage run away faster?; Sorcerers can with streak, Nightblades with cloak (if they dont get detect). For rest of other classes need major expedition to run away fast. In most of scenerios your enemies always chasing you I mean you have to fight back or run until you run out resources. Also in combats you can not go in sneak and use this ability. So when will we use this ability? After kill all enemies around? No one will allow us to stay in meditate.

Maybe a little bit change would be more functional for this skill. For example allow us to float on air while in meditate. At least with this movement people can use enviroment a bit and gain some resources in 2-3 sec whatever.

schattenkind

IARTOI wrote: »

[...] First of all when you cast this ability you can not cast any other skill and can not move.[...]

Just to add this, you can end it by block or bash, which is quick.

I agree, in PvP being solo for some it may get hard to use. In group I dont see problems, as you can stay behind your allies.

Kilandros

Is it just me or is the Imbue Weapons animation kind of clunky?

Iselin

Thraben wrote: »

Does Mend Wounds cost Ultimate when used on the Sorc´s Overload bar?

The only thing that use ultimate in your Overload bar is light attack and heavy attacks. Everything else uses what it always uses.

Thraben

IARTOI wrote: »

I have concerns about Maditate skill. Its really cool that skill has no cost this is advantege. But alongside this there are big disadvantages. First of all when you cast this ability you can not cast any other skill and can not move. But you are open to all attacks and its interruptable. How can we use this to all classes? (Talking about PvP) We need to get out of combat, run away from enemy use this ability. Who can manage run away faster?; Sorcerers can with streak, Nightblades with cloak (if they dont get detect). For rest of other classes need major expedition to run away fast. In most of scenerios your enemies always chasing you I mean you have to fight back or run until you run out resources. Also in combats you can not go in sneak and use this ability. So when will we use this ability? After kill all enemies around? No one will allow us to stay in meditate.

Maybe a little bit change would be more functional for this skill. For example allow us to float on air while in meditate. At least with this movement people can use enviroment a bit and gain some resources in 2-3 sec whatever.

Mediate will be mainly used by wardens, and makes them an even better supporter PvP wise.

Nighblades could port back to the shade to use it, though.

Sorcs have Dark Deal, and thus won´t use it anyway.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Does Mend Wounds cost Ultimate when used on the Sorc´s Overload bar?

As far as I know, no skill costs ultimate when used on any bar unless the skill says it costs ultimate, which would then be in the ultimate slot.

Overload just says light and heavy attacks deplete ultimate when used, not anything else.

Doesn´t mend wounds REPLACE the next light or heavy attack?

Iselin

I sure wish there was a separate topic for discussing the ins and outs of possible use of the Psijic skills themselves and all min/maxing of them. This thread is getting hard to read with the general stuff getting lost in the shuffle lol.

schattenkind

Thraben wrote: »

[...]Sorcs have Dark Deal, and thus won´t use it anyway.[...]

I wouldnt say that. Dont underestimate the importance of stam for sorc, which you trade for mag&life with dark deal. I surely will tryout if it can be a good replacement for me, in PvE situations it already is a good equivalent.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Imbue Weapons 2 second duration is short and there will be absolutely times when people cast the skill and are unable to use it and waste their resources. Stuns, PvE mechanics, cast-times, necessitated move or dodge, etc. Making it 3 would keep the same intent of a quick buff but be more forgiving.

I´m highly against increasing the time as this would mean creating the possibility of 100% unwanted combinations like:
Imbue (1s gcd) snipe (1.2s cast) lightattack PI => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) darkflare (1.1s cast) lightattack javelin => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) runecage (1s gcd) overload =>poof

The 2s time window is chosen very carefully to not allow for ultra high burst combinations with casttime abilities.

Also it definetly needs to be fixed to not work on overload lightattacks. That´s broken either way but a longer timer would allow it to be used in combination with runecage which would also make it a guaranteed hit. Not. Good.

@Joy_Division

Hmm. Maybe. That could be trouble.

Perhaps a return (pr at least partial) on resources if the ability is not used up.

Enodoc

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Not actually got that far yet, but the way the skill line is levelled seems like a bit of an obscure way to do it to me. A more logical situation would be for there to be considerably more rifts around Tamriel, and have them all available at all times, but you would still only need 9 (or less) to actually gain a rank. Then you could just find them as you're exploring, like the MG books, or you could use the maps to target a specific group if you wanted to.

If they did it that way then your rank would take as long as the mages guild, which is a very large amount of books at later ranks.
This is not meant to be quick, so I prefer the quest method which can be maximized efficiency unlike a slow tedious random spawn grind, since they won't be up all the time.

The portals are like Thieves Troves. So, they have to be random so it's not guaranteed loot just revisiting specific locations and therefore would be a very random very slow grind to level if they based it on the portals.

I said they should be "all available at all times" and you would only need 9 for each rank, so it would take no longer than it does now, and would be less tedious since you're not forced into going after 9 specific rifts. I'm talking about the rifts here, not the portals, since I don't think the portals contribute to the skill line.

Avran_Sylt

Kinda hope they include quest markers to Navigators. (Ships), so new players can learn about how to use the boating system. (and also alleviate the frustration of having literally zero wayshrines unlocked).

It would have to be personalized to these rift quests specifically though.

It'd also be nice if the radius for the compass quest indicator icon on the portals had a little longer range.

Seraphayel

Again, the concept of Imbued Weapons is great and sounds nice on paper but it is very hard to pull off in a game that's so plagued by lags, delays and target mismatching like ESO. That's adding a clunky skill with a clunky mechanic and animation to an already clunky gameplay (from a technical standpoint). It can work under best circumstances but when do we have that in ESO? In the morning when the server load is super low or at night when everybody is sleeping. During daytime and evening when most players are doing trials or dungeons I really don't see this happen. And as somebody pointed out, the ganking potential of the skill is too high. Specs that just build towards some kind of "one hit" build which directly disadvantages Warden and DK because they don't have executes. I am not really happy with that.

Valenka

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Psijic Order Skill Line. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did you try out all of the abilities?
• Which abilities would you incorporate into your build?
• Were you able to easily acquire and advance the skill line?
• What was your favorite ability and why?
• Were you able to find the Psijic Portals?
  • If so, did you understand what types of loot you get from them?
  • Did they feel rewarding for the difficulty in finding them?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

1. Yes all that were unlocked to me at the end of the questline.
2. borrowed time and crushing weapon I would put into my nightblade build for sure.
3. I acquired the quest line easily enough and I didn't mind the questing. Yes it took a while but so does collecting mages guild lore books etc. I felt that it was a great way for newer players especially to get out and see tamriel. Easy to pick up a few sky shards etc along the way.
4. Borrowed time was useful for controlling mobs as a nightblade for me.
5. Yes I found a few Psijic Portals was like a wee birthday present when I found one. Got varied loot in each. I stumbled across them so didn't find them that difficult as I wasn't actively looking for them. A bit like thieves troves it was a happy circumstance.
6. Apart from the quest being bugged at the end where you can't actually talk to Josajeh I found the whole line enjoyable. I would like it if the Augur of the Obscure talked more than once, perhaps if you leave the area of activation and re-enter as a couple of times he was bugged and didn't talk, or someone talked to me rl and I missed what he said. So if I could have left the area and walked back and heard him again it would be useful. Brilliantly acted and very amusing.

ToRelax

IARTOI wrote: »

I have concerns about Maditate skill. Its really cool that skill has no cost this is advantege. But alongside this there are big disadvantages. First of all when you cast this ability you can not cast any other skill and can not move. But you are open to all attacks and its interruptable. How can we use this to all classes? (Talking about PvP) We need to get out of combat, run away from enemy use this ability. Who can manage run away faster?; Sorcerers can with streak, Nightblades with cloak (if they dont get detect). For rest of other classes need major expedition to run away fast. In most of scenerios your enemies always chasing you I mean you have to fight back or run until you run out resources. Also in combats you can not go in sneak and use this ability. So when will we use this ability? After kill all enemies around? No one will allow us to stay in meditate.

Maybe a little bit change would be more functional for this skill. For example allow us to float on air while in meditate. At least with this movement people can use enviroment a bit and gain some resources in 2-3 sec whatever.

Try to think of a way to not get interrupted and outheal enough damage while channeling.

Derra

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Imbue Weapons 2 second duration is short and there will be absolutely times when people cast the skill and are unable to use it and waste their resources. Stuns, PvE mechanics, cast-times, necessitated move or dodge, etc. Making it 3 would keep the same intent of a quick buff but be more forgiving.

I´m highly against increasing the time as this would mean creating the possibility of 100% unwanted combinations like:
Imbue (1s gcd) snipe (1.2s cast) lightattack PI => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) darkflare (1.1s cast) lightattack javelin => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) runecage (1s gcd) overload =>poof

The 2s time window is chosen very carefully to not allow for ultra high burst combinations with casttime abilities.

Also it definetly needs to be fixed to not work on overload lightattacks. That´s broken either way but a longer timer would allow it to be used in combination with runecage which would also make it a guaranteed hit. Not. Good.

@Joy_Division

Hmm. Maybe. That could be trouble.

Perhaps a return (pr at least partial) on resources if the ability is not used up.

That´s a good idea!

Aznox

Is it really a problem though is this ability has a drawback ? If we make everything easy and perfect and nice and equal, then we get a boring game in my opinion

llElLoboll

I reached rank 9 last night and the grind wasn't near as bad as I thought it would be. The Iliac bay quest was confusing to figure out but easy after you discovered where to go. The "grind" in my opinion isn't to bad. You get a rank per quest and on a toon with no wayshrines I was completing a quest roughly every thirty minutes. Since I'm mainly a pvp player I was very happy with how easily and quickly the skill line was leveled compared to the fighters and mages guilds but the portal quests are ridiculously dull. However I will take dull and quick over interesting and long any day when it comes to most quests.

IARTOI

ToRelax wrote: »

IARTOI wrote: »

I have concerns about Maditate skill. Its really cool that skill has no cost this is advantege. But alongside this there are big disadvantages. First of all when you cast this ability you can not cast any other skill and can not move. But you are open to all attacks and its interruptable. How can we use this to all classes? (Talking about PvP) We need to get out of combat, run away from enemy use this ability. Who can manage run away faster?; Sorcerers can with streak, Nightblades with cloak (if they dont get detect). For rest of other classes need major expedition to run away fast. In most of scenerios your enemies always chasing you I mean you have to fight back or run until you run out resources. Also in combats you can not go in sneak and use this ability. So when will we use this ability? After kill all enemies around? No one will allow us to stay in meditate.

Maybe a little bit change would be more functional for this skill. For example allow us to float on air while in meditate. At least with this movement people can use enviroment a bit and gain some resources in 2-3 sec whatever.

Try to think of a way to not get interrupted and outheal enough damage while channeling.

Who would allow you to use it? Maybe people who doesn't know anything about game playing randomly.

Aznox

IARTOI wrote: »

Who would allow you to use it? Maybe people who doesn't know anything about game playing randomly.

Maybe someone who knows that he cannot be interrupted while CC immune and that one of the passives gives Major Protection while channeling ?

Dracane

Regarding the light attack+empower sorrow. I made a test and it does not increase light attack damage by 40%. It does, basically perhaps. But this 40% seems to be of some very basic number, not your actual light attack damage. My light attack did 5929 damage and with Empower, it dealt 7500, expected would have been 8300. So it's not really as strong as people make it out to be.

BohnT

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Mystrius_Archaion

No. There was a universal bonus damage attached to attacking from Sneak. ZOS scrapped that a few patches ago. Now it’s only a guaranteed crit for NBs and a free stun for everyone.

Guaranteed crit and stun was what I mean with bonus damage yeah, sorry if that wasn't clear. NBs also get further bonuses from Master Assassin and cloak crit, which is why I mentioned that class specifically.

I would still like someone who knows how to make an efficient ganker build to try and see how much damage they can load into a single light attack on a Stamblade, or a 1-2 combo from stealth.

We really don't need to go back into those days again, especially not in no-CP campaigns/BGs.

No worries the new skill won't make ganking any stronger.
The current ganking methods all do more damage than any combination with imbue, that'll make it into the game, can do.
It only opens up a new version of magblade ganking with LA changes and imbue but i won't bother theorycrafting until i get EU copies and Psijic unlocked from the start

Seraphayel

Aznox wrote: »

Is it really a problem though is this ability has a drawback ? If we make everything easy and perfect and nice and equal, then we get a boring game in my opinion

Yes because the problems aren't necessarily caused by the player but by ESOs wonky technical qualities.

Derra

Dracane wrote: »

Regarding the light attack+empower sorrow. I made a test and it does not increase light attack damage by 40%. It does, basically perhaps. But this 40% seems to be of some very basic number, not your actual light attack damage. My light attack did 5929 damage and with Empower, it dealt 7500, expected would have been 8300. So it's not really as strong as people make it out to be.

additive dmg calculation ^^

DDuke

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Mystrius_Archaion

No. There was a universal bonus damage attached to attacking from Sneak. ZOS scrapped that a few patches ago. Now it’s only a guaranteed crit for NBs and a free stun for everyone.

Guaranteed crit and stun was what I mean with bonus damage yeah, sorry if that wasn't clear. NBs also get further bonuses from Master Assassin and cloak crit, which is why I mentioned that class specifically.

I would still like someone who knows how to make an efficient ganker build to try and see how much damage they can load into a single light attack on a Stamblade, or a 1-2 combo from stealth.

We really don't need to go back into those days again, especially not in no-CP campaigns/BGs.

No worries the new skill won't make ganking any stronger.
The current ganking methods all do more damage than any combination with imbue, that'll make it into the game, can do.
It only opens up a new version of magblade ganking with LA changes and imbue but i won't bother theorycrafting until i get EU copies and Psijic unlocked from the start

Depends.

Imbued Weapon is not usable with cast time abilities, but you can "pre-buff" any other type of burst with it.

E.g. Imbued->LA+Incap->AW(or just Rev Slice/Killer's Blade at this point)
or
Magelight for Empower->Imbued->Overload LA


What makes Imbued Weapon less than ideal for ganking specifically is that it breaks stealth/sneak when it's used & triggers global cooldown, so opponents have a 1s time window to dodge roll/block.

But in terms of damage, Imbued will add to any burst combo not involving a cast time ability (and even to some cast time combos like Radiant->Snipe->LA+Imbued or Dark Flare->LA+Imbued, by replacing a skill in the rotation that deals less damage).

Dracane wrote: »

Regarding the light attack+empower sorrow. I made a test and it does not increase light attack damage by 40%. It does, basically perhaps. But this 40% seems to be of some very basic number, not your actual light attack damage. My light attack did 5929 damage and with Empower, it dealt 7500, expected would have been 8300. So it's not really as strong as people make it out to be.

The +40% is bundled up with all other % damage modifiers (CPs, Minor/Major Berserk, Elegant set etc). It's not buffing your already buffed damage by 40%.

BohnT

DDuke wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Mystrius_Archaion

No. There was a universal bonus damage attached to attacking from Sneak. ZOS scrapped that a few patches ago. Now it’s only a guaranteed crit for NBs and a free stun for everyone.

Guaranteed crit and stun was what I mean with bonus damage yeah, sorry if that wasn't clear. NBs also get further bonuses from Master Assassin and cloak crit, which is why I mentioned that class specifically.

I would still like someone who knows how to make an efficient ganker build to try and see how much damage they can load into a single light attack on a Stamblade, or a 1-2 combo from stealth.

We really don't need to go back into those days again, especially not in no-CP campaigns/BGs.

No worries the new skill won't make ganking any stronger.
The current ganking methods all do more damage than any combination with imbue, that'll make it into the game, can do.
It only opens up a new version of magblade ganking with LA changes and imbue but i won't bother theorycrafting until i get EU copies and Psijic unlocked from the start

Depends.

Imbued Weapon is not usable with cast time abilities, but you can "pre-buff" any other type of burst with it.

E.g. Imbued->LA+Incap->AW(or just Rev Slice/Killer's Blade at this point)
or
Magelight for Empower->Imbued->Overload LA


What makes Imbued Weapon less than ideal for ganking specifically is that it breaks stealth/sneak when it's used & triggers global cooldown, so opponents have a 1s time window to dodge roll/block.

Dracane wrote: »

Regarding the light attack+empower sorrow. I made a test and it does not increase light attack damage by 40%. It does, basically perhaps. But this 40% seems to be of some very basic number, not your actual light attack damage. My light attack did 5929 damage and with Empower, it dealt 7500, expected would have been 8300. So it's not really as strong as people make it out to be.

The +40% is bundled up with all other % damage modifiers (CPs, Minor/Major Berserk, Elegant set etc). It's not buffing your already buffed damage by 40%.

as i said only for combinations that'll make it into the game. Overload LA working with imbue and empower won't make it in the game for Balance reasons.

mlstevens42_ESO

Those of you that have been doing the psijic order line are you doing this with a old toon or a newbie. Seem to be having an issue with a Time for mud and mushrooms in the percolating mire. I know this area is instanced with before and after. I can not find the time portal to seal...but at times I can see an arrow pointing into the village here. I am guessing it has to do with an instancing issue. I am using a toon from live that has already completed the first instance of the village before you free it.

Dracane

Derra wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Regarding the light attack+empower sorrow. I made a test and it does not increase light attack damage by 40%. It does, basically perhaps. But this 40% seems to be of some very basic number, not your actual light attack damage. My light attack did 5929 damage and with Empower, it dealt 7500, expected would have been 8300. So it's not really as strong as people make it out to be.

additive dmg calculation ^^

Yes, very intelligent addition.
The result is, that it's not as extreme as it sounds. When you read 40%, you go insane at first. But it's really not that strong in the end.

Dracane

DDuke wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Regarding the light attack+empower sorrow. I made a test and it does not increase light attack damage by 40%. It does, basically perhaps. But this 40% seems to be of some very basic number, not your actual light attack damage. My light attack did 5929 damage and with Empower, it dealt 7500, expected would have been 8300. So it's not really as strong as people make it out to be.

The +40% is bundled up with all other % damage modifiers (CPs, Minor/Major Berserk, Elegant set etc). It's not buffing your already buffed damage by 40%.

Which is what I said, is it not ? It's 40% of your base damage. It sounded a bit less professional than it was, but that's basically what I said

Grumble_and_Grunt

Levelling the skill line is incredibly monotonous

axxlesoft_ESO

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Those of you that have been doing the psijic order line are you doing this with a old toon or a newbie. Seem to be having an issue with a Time for mud and mushrooms in the percolating mire. I know this area is instanced with before and after. I can not find the time portal to seal...but at times I can see an arrow pointing into the village here. I am guessing it has to do with an instancing issue. I am using a toon from live that has already completed the first instance of the village before you free it.

I believe we worked together to nail this bug down. As mlstevens42_ESO pointed out, there is a bug with the quest A Time for Mud and Mushrooms at the breech in the Percolating Mire. I brought my new character in and found the breech. New characters can find the breech but characters that have already completed the quests in this area may not see the breech because of phasing. We grouped up and when I activated the breech, mlstevens42_ESO's character from live, who could not see the breech, received credit for closing the breech as well. If you are having trouble completing this quest, then group up with someone that is playing a new character and have that character activate the breech while you are grouped up to receive credit for closing the breech. Nice work mlstevens42_ESO. It is always nice to work with a fellow Psijic to slay a bug. Teamwork makes dreams work!

Zer0oo

Do you have any other general feedback?

Please unlock the skill line for everyone without doing the quest. A lot of ppl do not really want to grind something and even less on pts(just think about that you have to repeat the grind again on live).

It would be really nice if we had a scroll on pts that would unlock all maxed out skills for this skill line. That way no one has to delete a character to get a maxed out skill line. Especial useful for the ppl who have currently already their live/template characters on pts.
It could also be nice if we could buy this scroll(account bound) on live server for some gold(~10k gold) after having maxed out the skill line on one character. That would save so many ppl with alts the boring grind.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

ps: templates are missing the clock work gold food (but in general templates are now really good)