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PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Psijic Order Skill Line
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Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.
As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.
So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.
Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.
Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!
This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.
Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)
A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.
Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.
Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?
That would be bad for stam builds. Stamina builds want buffs that cost magicka with damage skills that cost stamina. Magicka builds want only magicka costs because they already utilize their minimal stamina pool for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging out of immobilizations, etc.10 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭If it helps, I’m pretty sure @Elsterchen is speaking from a pvp perspective and @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO is speaking from a pve perspective. Both of you have valid arguments on the use of resource pools from your respective contexts. That said, I think the Psijic skill line is appropriate as is, particularly since the next chapter cycle would reasonably be in DC territory. If it’s in redguard or orc lands, there’d be a good chance any skill tree it comes with would be stamina-oriented. I think Psijic does offer a good bit to stam users in both pve and pvp, but if you disagree, maybe hold off on Summerset and wait for the next chapter for new toys to play with. I can’t say for certain, but odds are you could get quite a few with it.
From a PVP perspective, his argument makes even less sense.5 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.
As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.
So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.
Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.
Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!
This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.
Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)
A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.
Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.
Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?
That would be bad for stam builds. Stamina builds want buffs that cost magicka with damage skills that cost stamina. Magicka builds want only magicka costs because they already utilize their minimal stamina pool for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging out of immobilizations, etc.
@Amdar_Godkiller :
I main a stamina char and I can assure you i hate buffs that come with a magica cost and guess what: even stamina chars usually block, dodge and sprint using stamina! (Awesome, i know. Point is: The cost for break free, sprint etc is equally painful for every char, no matter the main ressource.)
But on a serious side:
First, stamina skills cost 15% less (generally) to account for the cost of blocking, dodging and sprinting. This is true for stamina chars using stam skills as well as magica chars using stam skills. In effect this means that its just as costly for a stamina user to pay the (generally) higher magica price for a buff skill, then it is for a magica user to pay the (blockcost-is -already-accounted-for) stamina cost of a buff skill.
Secondly, you may have noticed that the base stamina pool is exactly the same as the base magica pool and the same is true for unbuffed recovery rates of both ressources. In effect this means no-one has any ressource to "spare".
Lastly: Everyone wants buffs... and everyone likes to choose which skills to use. Its ok if its only one skill you may want to use, even its bound with an unpreferable ressource cost. But 7 out of 8 possible skills is way too much!Edited by Elsterchen on April 18, 2018 6:07PM0 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.
As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.
So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.
Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.
Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!
This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.
Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)
A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.
Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.
Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?
That would be bad for stam builds. Stamina builds want buffs that cost magicka with damage skills that cost stamina. Magicka builds want only magicka costs because they already utilize their minimal stamina pool for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging out of immobilizations, etc.
@Amdar_Godkiller :
I main a stamina char and I can assure you i hate buffs that come with a magica cost and guess what: he usually blocks, dodges and sprints using stamina! (Awesome, i know!)
But on a serious side:
First, stamina skills cost 15% less (generally) to account for the cost of blocking, dodging and sprinting. This is true for stamina chars using stam skills as well as magica chars using stam skills. In effect this means that its just as costly for a stamina user to pay the (generally) higher magica price for a buff skill, then it is for a magica user to pay the (blockcost-is -already-accounted-for) stamina cost of a buff skill.
Secondly, you may have noticed that the base stamina pool is exactly the same as the base magica pool and the same is true for unbuffed recovery rates of both ressources. In effect this means no-one has any ressource to "spare".
Lastly: Everyone wants buffs... and everyone likes to choose which skills to use. Its ok if its only one skill you may want to use, if its bound with an unpreferable ressource cost. But 7 out of 8 possible skills is way too much!
I have 4 max level stam characters. Every class but Templar. DKs depend on magicka cost skills because using them gives them stamina and buffs their weapon damage.
Wardens have magicka-costing heals that scale with stamina and return stamina when used. Also the falcon increases their running speed, however, if it cost stamina instead of magicka it would be a *** skill because you wouldn't be able to run nearly as far.
Stamina Nightblades cloak, fear, and get major evasion from magicka-costing skills. I challenge you to find a competitive PVP Stamblade build that doesn't use at least two of those skills.
Stam Sorcs trade magicka for health and stamina with dark deal. They have the pet heal as well that costs magicka. It's why they have the best sustain in the game. BECAUSE OF SKILLS THAT COST MAGICKA.
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ZOS_MikaadminWe have removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. While it is fine to disagree, this discussion needs to remain civil and constructive. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭@Amdar_Godkiller maybe I skimmed too quickly. I thought the concern was that the majority of the skills costing magicka meant he’d either have to swap out or wouldn’t be able to sustain the magicka skills he already uses. Reading some additional comments it sounds more like the concern is not wanting to use one’s magicka at all, which yeah, from a pvp or pve perspective doesn’t make sense. I only see that being a good argument from an rp/immersion perspective.0 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.
As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.
So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.
Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.
Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!
This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.
Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)
A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.
Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.
Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?
That would be bad for stam builds. Stamina builds want buffs that cost magicka with damage skills that cost stamina. Magicka builds want only magicka costs because they already utilize their minimal stamina pool for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging out of immobilizations, etc.
@Amdar_Godkiller :
I main a stamina char and I can assure you i hate buffs that come with a magica cost and guess what: he usually blocks, dodges and sprints using stamina! (Awesome, i know!)
But on a serious side:
First, stamina skills cost 15% less (generally) to account for the cost of blocking, dodging and sprinting. This is true for stamina chars using stam skills as well as magica chars using stam skills. In effect this means that its just as costly for a stamina user to pay the (generally) higher magica price for a buff skill, then it is for a magica user to pay the (blockcost-is -already-accounted-for) stamina cost of a buff skill.
Secondly, you may have noticed that the base stamina pool is exactly the same as the base magica pool and the same is true for unbuffed recovery rates of both ressources. In effect this means no-one has any ressource to "spare".
Lastly: Everyone wants buffs... and everyone likes to choose which skills to use. Its ok if its only one skill you may want to use, if its bound with an unpreferable ressource cost. But 7 out of 8 possible skills is way too much!
I have 4 max level stam characters. Every class but Templar. DKs depend on magicka cost skills because using them gives them stamina and buffs their weapon damage.
Wardens have magicka-costing heals that scale with stamina and return stamina when used. Also the falcon increases their running speed, however, if it cost stamina instead of magicka it would be a *** skill because you wouldn't be able to run nearly as far.
Stamina Nightblades cloak, fear, and get major evasion from magicka-costing skills. I challenge you to find a competitive PVP Stamblade build that doesn't use at least two of those skills.
Stam Sorcs trade magicka for health and stamina with dark deal. They have the pet heal as well that costs magicka. It's why they have the best sustain in the game. BECAUSE OF SKILLS THAT COST MAGICKA.
1. How many buffs do you use on your stamina chars that cost magica and have to be sustained within a 10 second rotation?
Remember to utilize the passive ability one needs to fit 5 active skills of this skill line in 10 s -> the only stam skill has a duration of 2 seconds. This means a stam user will at minimum need to cast 4 times the stam skill (duration 8 s, if timed perfectly) and recast another (instant) skill at minimum once every 10 s to gain the passive buff.
It would probably be easier to make use of more then just 2 skills to get the buff, however with the prospect of having to sustain 2 or more skills costing magica of about 4k, this is quite difficult. Even more so if you already rely on class based magica skills that need to be sustained during combat.
So do you think these stamina chars of yours can sustain the cost of minimum 1 or even 2 more buffs that cost magica from current skill line?
Can you understand, why I would like more of these skills to be stamina based ?
edit: Adding to: there is no reason for not making 4 out of the 8 skills stamina based, because neither resource use nor basic combat mechanics justify a preference for magica. ofc.
Edited by Elsterchen on April 18, 2018 7:02PM0 -
jeskah✭✭✭Someone should test it, but i fear, that the imbue weapons mechanic could and IMHO will be exploited like no tomorrow in PVP: the 2 sec window for the LA to hapen allows something like IW,ambush(40% more light attack damage), LA+surprise attack, next thing is execute. Macroers or good players IMHO could pull this out easily, maybe average players too - and the simple, imbued weapons followed by a light attack and skill (mainly surprise attack, but whip could do something similar) could do an over 10k burst without crits.
So... if someone tests it and have the numbers, feel free to correct me or anything.0 -
Capt_Morgan✭✭✭After playing little with Imbue(d) weapons - the stamina morph I just cant understand one thing. Why it has heal. I dont need it, nobody really needs it.
I think having a heal component was a good way to make it worth a slot against other "loaded" abilities for PvP and solo PvE, without adding more damage and thus making it insta BiS spamable for endgame trial PvE across the board ...
Personally i really like how it looks.
Could someone please confirm if the bonus damage is "melted" into the light attack tick, and thus can be further buffed by things like empower, or if it has its own separated damage tick ?
It's seperate.
Does it count as an ability as far as sets are concerned? Will it proc sets such as scathing mage, caluurions, or any required direct magic dmg?1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.
As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.
So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.
Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.
Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!
This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.
Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)
A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.
Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.
Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?
That would be bad for stam builds. Stamina builds want buffs that cost magicka with damage skills that cost stamina. Magicka builds want only magicka costs because they already utilize their minimal stamina pool for breaking free, blocking, roll dodging out of immobilizations, etc.
@Amdar_Godkiller :
I main a stamina char and I can assure you i hate buffs that come with a magica cost and guess what: he usually blocks, dodges and sprints using stamina! (Awesome, i know!)
But on a serious side:
First, stamina skills cost 15% less (generally) to account for the cost of blocking, dodging and sprinting. This is true for stamina chars using stam skills as well as magica chars using stam skills. In effect this means that its just as costly for a stamina user to pay the (generally) higher magica price for a buff skill, then it is for a magica user to pay the (blockcost-is -already-accounted-for) stamina cost of a buff skill.
Secondly, you may have noticed that the base stamina pool is exactly the same as the base magica pool and the same is true for unbuffed recovery rates of both ressources. In effect this means no-one has any ressource to "spare".
Lastly: Everyone wants buffs... and everyone likes to choose which skills to use. Its ok if its only one skill you may want to use, if its bound with an unpreferable ressource cost. But 7 out of 8 possible skills is way too much!
I have 4 max level stam characters. Every class but Templar. DKs depend on magicka cost skills because using them gives them stamina and buffs their weapon damage.
Wardens have magicka-costing heals that scale with stamina and return stamina when used. Also the falcon increases their running speed, however, if it cost stamina instead of magicka it would be a *** skill because you wouldn't be able to run nearly as far.
Stamina Nightblades cloak, fear, and get major evasion from magicka-costing skills. I challenge you to find a competitive PVP Stamblade build that doesn't use at least two of those skills.
Stam Sorcs trade magicka for health and stamina with dark deal. They have the pet heal as well that costs magicka. It's why they have the best sustain in the game. BECAUSE OF SKILLS THAT COST MAGICKA.
1. How many buffs do you use on your stamina chars that cost magica and have to be sustained within a 10 second rotation?
Remember to utilize the passive ability one needs to fit 5 active skills of this skill line in 10 s -> the only stam skill has a duration of 2 seconds. This means a stam user will at minimum need to cast 4 times the stam skill (duration 8 s, if timed perfectly) and recast another (instant) skill at minimum once every 10 s to gain the passive buff.
It would probably be easier to make use of more then just 2 skills to get the buff, however with the prospect of having to sustain 2 or more skills costing magica of about 4k, this is quite difficult. Even more so if you already rely on class based magica skills that need to be sustained during combat.
So do you think these stamina chars of yours can sustain the cost of minimum 1 or even 2 more buffs that cost magica from current skill line?
Can you understand, why I would like more of these skills to be stamina based ?
edit: Adding to: there is no reason for not making 4 out of the 8 skills stamina based, because neither resource use nor basic combat mechanics justify a preference for magica. ofc.
Only one of these skills is a PVE DPS skill and it has a stamina morph. The rest are primarily PVP skills and deal no damage. So there's no concern for incorporating them into a 10 second rotation.
For PVP the channel that gives back resources is stronger for stamina builds if it costs magicka because it means more stamina.
The CC that does no damage you can only use once every 7 seconds anyways, so it's better off costing magicka.
I don't think the light attack heal is that appealing personally, and it will do half as much healing in PVP so I won't use it.
The skill that reduces the cost of sprint in pvp will be op for my stamina warden in PVP and I will likely slot it over the animal companions skill that costs more and also grants major expedition.
0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »
1. How many buffs do you use on your stamina chars that cost magica and have to be sustained within a 10 second rotation?
Remember to utilize the passive ability one needs to fit 5 active skills of this skill line in 10 s -> the only stam skill has a duration of 2 seconds. This means a stam user will at minimum need to cast 4 times the stam skill (duration 8 s, if timed perfectly) and recast another (instant) skill at minimum once every 10 s to gain the passive buff.
It would probably be easier to make use of more then just 2 skills to get the buff, however with the prospect of having to sustain 2 or more skills costing magica of about 4k, this is quite difficult. Even more so if you already rely on class based magica skills that need to be sustained during combat.
Read the Spell Orb passive again ... "Within 10 seconds of each other"
You only need to use one skill every 10 seconds.
Edited by Aznox on April 18, 2018 8:04PMAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club6 -
skinnycheeks✭✭✭✭✭Running around Tamriel and closing rifts to level a skill line is not fun. I think I speak for most when I say there could be better ways to do this. It doesn't help that the map is vague and some points flat out incorrect as previous commenters have mentioned.
It's terrible on my 1st time through...I can't imagine how bad it will be on the 5th.
I love this game and really enjoy most of the content so please take this as feedback and not me just being mean...the psijic skill line leveling is really bad in its current state.Edited by skinnycheeks on April 18, 2018 9:12PM2 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elsterchen wrote: »
1. How many buffs do you use on your stamina chars that cost magica and have to be sustained within a 10 second rotation?
Remember to utilize the passive ability one needs to fit 5 active skills of this skill line in 10 s -> the only stam skill has a duration of 2 seconds. This means a stam user will at minimum need to cast 4 times the stam skill (duration 8 s, if timed perfectly) and recast another (instant) skill at minimum once every 10 s to gain the passive buff.
It would probably be easier to make use of more then just 2 skills to get the buff, however with the prospect of having to sustain 2 or more skills costing magica of about 4k, this is quite difficult. Even more so if you already rely on class based magica skills that need to be sustained during combat.
Read the Spell Orb passive again ... "Within 10 seconds of each other"
You only need to use one skill every 10 seconds.
sry that was worded weird and I should stop editing so much it breaks line of argument. Anyways, the 10 was meant as (imo) reasonable duration for a rotation... since the main ability to use this passive is linked to a 2s duration and it needs 5 skills activated. Every 10 seconds seems the best to get (unless you have extremely good reflexes - well or use instant mag casts abilities, ofc) - how often did you plan to get the passive to go on your stam toons?
edit: just noticed someone else skipped into the discussion. i hope the 10s is clear now.
Feel free to add to discussion.Edited by Elsterchen on April 18, 2018 9:41PM0 -
BigBadVolk✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »This is the official feedback thread for the Psijic Order Skill Line. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:- Did you try out all of the abilities?
- Which abilities would you incorporate into your build?
- Were you able to easily acquire and advance the skill line?
- What was your favorite ability and why?
- Were you able to find the Psijic Portals?
- If so, did you understand what types of loot you get from them?
- Did they feel rewarding for the difficulty in finding them?
- Do you have any other general feedback?
1) only Imbue and accelarate so far like both of them, but prolly will stay with funnel/force pulse
2) Accelarate for PVE instead of trap and for PVP bombing with acuity
3)kinda ye. its a pain and boring to run aroun finding those rifts and reading the map especially on template without wayshrines and with the manouver horse bug
4) Accelarate and cause of magicka minor force
5) ye I found 4-5 its ez to spot them thankfully
6)yes
7)yes
8)Pls give some intresting quest, after playing (some) through summerset and SS MQ (maybe not the best shortenin) the Psijic "questline" was kinda lackluster maybe the end quest will be better then the rest but still oh but kudos for our travelling companion (forgot his name) you ZoS did a great job with him
Edited by BigBadVolk on April 18, 2018 10:51PM"The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
I'm 120 years old0 -
SilverIce58✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So idk if anyone has caught this yet, but the Time Freeze morph of Time Stop has been turning my character invisible, and idk if this is where I report it or not, but it happens when I'm standing inside the circle, and outside of it.
Edit: While moving and casting, it turns my sword invisible for about a second or maybe half a second.Edited by SilverIce58 on April 18, 2018 10:55PMPC - NACP 1125
Veric Blackwood - Breton Magsorc DC
Xhiak-Qua'cthurus - Argonian Frost Warden EP
Kujata-qa - Khajiit Magplar AD
Suunleth-dar - Khajiit Stamblade AD
Teldryn Antharys - Dunmer Flame DK EP
Strikes-With-Venom - Argonian Poison DK EP
Rur'san-ra - Khajiit WW Stamsorc AD
Ilianos Solinar - Altmer Stamplar AD
Iscah Silver-Heart - Reachman Magden DC2 -
zassasaurus✭✭✭leveling this skill line is really tedious, It will be easier on live with addons, but at the very least you should make the map a bit better, either be able to zoom in and see more specifically where it is and/or make the quest marker appear when you are further away then it currently does.1 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.
I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.
On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.
This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.
Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.
Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.
But is it fun to use or put it in any rotation? It lasts for 2s and just one light attack. It needs to be permanently active to be useful so you need to spam it. To use it once every 9.9s for the Orbs doesn't make sense and to use it just every now and then it seems like a wasted slot.
Why would you want to only cause an orb stack once every 9.9 seconds? The 10 second limit is when they fall off and you start over. You really want to use psijic skills more to trigger orbs faster. Imbue Weapons is perfect for that if you just cast it before every light attack. IW, LA, IW, LA, IW, LA....etc2 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »This is the official feedback thread for the Psijic Order Skill Line. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:- Did you try out all of the abilities?
- Which abilities would you incorporate into your build?
- Were you able to easily acquire and advance the skill line?
- What was your favorite ability and why?
- Were you able to find the Psijic Portals?
- If so, did you understand what types of loot you get from them?
- Did they feel rewarding for the difficulty in finding them?
- Do you have any other general feedback?
1. Yes, all except the Undo Ultimate, which is currently unobtainable due to a bug that you guys are aware of.
2. Time Stop without a doubt, because it's a Stun for my Magicka Warden. Maybe the Symbiosis morph of Mend Wounds too, since it's a strong heal that heals myself and can be used on the Eternal Guardian
3. It was tedious and annoying at best. 7 quests that have us go on a Treasure Hunt across 1-3 zones, for 6-9 locations while 2 other quests have us follow certain paths from point A to B trying to find a staff piece. I would def prefer to see these quests reworked
4. Symbiosis. I like how I can turn this into a channeled single target heal that also heals myself and my Guardian
5. Yes
6. Runes for Enchanting, a gear piece of the area, an item to help us with Jewelry Crafting (Exemplary Jewelry & trait stones) and occasionally a motif page (I found the Psijic Swords page so far)
7. Absolutely
8. Not at the moment"We're all born under the same sky and on the same earth. Therefore, we all deserve the same amount of respect."
Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.
I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.
On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.
This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.
Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.
Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.
But is it fun to use or put it in any rotation? It lasts for 2s and just one light attack. It needs to be permanently active to be useful so you need to spam it. To use it once every 9.9s for the Orbs doesn't make sense and to use it just every now and then it seems like a wasted slot.
Why would you want to only cause an orb stack once every 9.9 seconds? The 10 second limit is when they fall off and you start over. You really want to use psijic skills more to trigger orbs faster. Imbue Weapons is perfect for that if you just cast it before every light attack. IW, LA, IW, LA, IW, LA....etc
I said every 9.9 seconds that you don't lose the stacks. I just can't imagine that new builds will revolve around pumping out Orbs and using the clunky Imbued Weapons with the 2s light attacking window. That requires lag-free gameplay and a responsive server, something we don't have most of the time. On PC it could work maybe, but on console? I am very skeptical.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imbue Weapons 2 second duration is short and there will be absolutely times when people cast the skill and are unable to use it and waste their resources. Stuns, PvE mechanics, cast-times, necessitated move or dodge, etc. Making it 3 would keep the same intent of a quick buff but be more forgiving.5 -
Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »I'm confused about this. I completed the main quest line up to the point where I received the quest, the map, retrieved the skull and now closed my first 2 time breaches succesfully BUT the skill line still does not unlock for me. Perhaps I need to close my first 9 before I finally receive the skillline ?
I just read that template's don't have the psijic skilline. I thought that was meant as in: "at character creation" but perhaps they meant: "even after doing the whole quest line" ??
You need to complete the first quest, to close all portals on Summerset, to unlock the skill line.Crown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Stamina characters have a much easier time blocking and using break free and roll dodging because they aren't using a resource they haven't buffed at all. That's the benefit of stamina especially when they keep adding more and more CCs and things to dodge or block to even common minions.
It's actually getting ridiculous how much we actually "need to worry about" when it comes to the weakest enemies in the game that should really be "tinder for our flames". I really hate the "give every minion some way to silence the character" just like a Negate bubble but not an ultimate, some of which are too quick to interrupt and always unblockable.1 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not actually got that far yet, but the way the skill line is levelled seems like a bit of an obscure way to do it to me. A more logical situation would be for there to be considerably more rifts around Tamriel, and have them all available at all times, but you would still only need 9 (or less) to actually gain a rank. Then you could just find them as you're exploring, like the MG books, or you could use the maps to target a specific group if you wanted to.
If they did it that way then your rank would take as long as the mages guild, which is a very large amount of books at later ranks.
This is not meant to be quick, so I prefer the quest method which can be maximized efficiency unlike a slow tedious random spawn grind, since they won't be up all the time.
The portals are like Thieves Troves. So, they have to be random so it's not guaranteed loot just revisiting specific locations and therefore would be a very random very slow grind to level if they based it on the portals.0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »Another important questions about Mend Wounds: do you actually need to target your ally you want to heal (which would basically kill this entire ability) or is it a smart heal?
You use the ability, then target and light or heavy attack an ally. Can't use light/heavy attacks on enemies until that's done.
It will then consume magicka for each heal, whether light or heavy attacks, so the cost is considerable. Heavy attacks can be channeled for a long time, maybe indefinitely. It's all ranged, independent from weapon type/Overload.
1) That will really suck if it doesn't have an end time if there is no target or attempt to use it, possibly because all allies move out of range and you end up alone or you accidentally trigger it when you're in a solo quest instance or something.
2) Smart heals are just better. Targeting is always fiddly for allies that don't move in predictable patterns. It's like trying to snipe people in any first person shooter game. Except, the players here are not trying to intentionally avoid it but sure do just as good a job at avoiding.
It's like that Warden targeted chain heal but worse in that it locks out other attacks.
3) This really really really needs to be able to target self. Another self heal option for those that prefer to solo, or tanks, would be great and would be easy to do with the smart healing coding also.
I was hoping for smart healing like Breath of Life where it heals me or anybody else based on my direction facing and who needed it more.0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.
As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.
So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.
Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.
Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!
Except, magicka characters still use stamina for blocking and bashing and break free and roll dodge and still need to do those things the same amount as a stamina character, even if they run out a hell of a lot faster than stamina characters.
Also, this actually supports all the hybrid sets they have been doing since at least Vvardenfell launched. They probably want us to be spreading our stats more between health/magicka/stamina and using the prismatic glyphs and new triune jewelry trait.
Edit:
How long before we get a set that equalizes our max magicka and max stamina stats to the highest one like Pelinal's does for spell and weapon damage, or one that equalizes health with either max magicka or max stamina?
I can definitely see that happening and would really like it.
Also, I wonder if they should just get rid of spell and weapon damage and just make everyone focus on the max magicka and max stamina because weapon damage and spell damage now is superfluous with the new scaling for weapon attacks.Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on April 19, 2018 10:02AM0 -
Aznox✭✭✭✭✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »I don't see a use for imbue weapons. It only buffs your next light attack by a bit. I would be loosing so much dps and a skill slot by using this. Using a spammable ability followed by a normal light attack deals more damage than using imbue weapons. Imbue weapons has no place in any rotation I'm afraid.
I´m sorry but this is flatout wrong in every aspect.
On lvl1 elemental weapon deals 9529 tooltip dmg for me with 1890 cost.
Force pulse lvl4 in comparison has 9864 tooltip dmg for 2295 cost.
This is on a highelf so force pulse benefits from additional 4% elemental dmg aswell.
Furthermore you can add 5124 magic dmg every 5 casts from the spell orb passive of the psijic skillline.
Overall the skill is cheaper, guarantees high uptime of statuseffects (unless asylum is used) and deals more damage than force pulse in a rotation where it´s used frequently.
But is it fun to use or put it in any rotation? It lasts for 2s and just one light attack. It needs to be permanently active to be useful so you need to spam it. To use it once every 9.9s for the Orbs doesn't make sense and to use it just every now and then it seems like a wasted slot.
Why would you want to only cause an orb stack once every 9.9 seconds? The 10 second limit is when they fall off and you start over. You really want to use psijic skills more to trigger orbs faster. Imbue Weapons is perfect for that if you just cast it before every light attack. IW, LA, IW, LA, IW, LA....etc
In this end it doesn't matter how often you proc the Spell Orb passive, it will always add [Spell Orb damage / 5 ] to each psijic skill as long as you use one every 9.9 sec max.
This passive exist to give an opportunity to good players to time it with the rest of they burst, this a good thing that promotes skill and smart play. End of story.Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Edit:
How long before we get a set that equalizes our max magicka and max stamina stats to the highest one like Pelinal's does for spell and weapon damage, or one that equalizes health with either max magicka or max stamina?
I can definitely see that happening and would really like it.
Also, I wonder if they should just get rid of spell and weapon damage and just make everyone focus on the max magicka and max stamina because weapon damage and spell damage now is superfluous with the new scaling for weapon attacks.
Why ? Why would you like to dumb down the game to two attributes ?
Weapon and Spell damage should not be superfluous and if the new and only optimum is to stack max resource after summerset the game design team failed.
Weapon and Spell damage vs Max resources should be a though choice between more sustained damage vs ability to use a bigger pool to support a longer burn of a non sustainable rotation.
The change to light attack was made because Weapon and Spell damage was 100% the better stats outside of petsorc builds.
If everything goes well it should be a tough choice in many builds.
Edited by Aznox on April 19, 2018 6:37AMAznox
PC EU
Khajiit Orc Bosmer Stamina Sorcerer and Werewolf Stage 3 Vampire
I live in Battlegrounds
Theorycrafting enthusiast
Official Cheese Lord
CP1500+ club2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Imbue Weapons 2 second duration is short and there will be absolutely times when people cast the skill and are unable to use it and waste their resources. Stuns, PvE mechanics, cast-times, necessitated move or dodge, etc. Making it 3 would keep the same intent of a quick buff but be more forgiving.
I´m highly against increasing the time as this would mean creating the possibility of 100% unwanted combinations like:
Imbue (1s gcd) snipe (1.2s cast) lightattack PI => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) darkflare (1.1s cast) lightattack javelin => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) runecage (1s gcd) overload =>poof
The 2s time window is chosen very carefully to not allow for ultra high burst combinations with casttime abilities.
Also it definetly needs to be fixed to not work on overload lightattacks. That´s broken either way but a longer timer would allow it to be used in combination with runecage which would also make it a guaranteed hit. Not. Good.
@Joy_DivisionEdited by Derra on April 19, 2018 6:41AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?
Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.
What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.
Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.
This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.
Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.
As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.
So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.
Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.
Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!
Except, magicka characters still use stamina fro blocking and bashing and break free and roll dodge and still need to do those things the same amount as a stamina character, even if they run out a hell of a lot faster than stamina characters.
Also, this actually supports all the hybrid sets they have been doing since at least Vvardenfell launched. They probably want us to be spreading our stats more between health/magicka/stamina and using the prismatic glyphs and new triune jewelry trait.
Edit:
How long before we get a set that equalizes our max magicka and max stamina stats to the highest one like Pelinal's does for spell and weapon damage, or one that equalizes health with either max magicka or max stamina?
I can definitely see that happening and would really like it.
Also, I wonder if they should just get rid of spell and weapon damage and just make everyone focus on the max magicka and max stamina because weapon damage and spell damage now is superfluous with the new scaling for weapon attacks.
Hi there,
your exeption doesn't hold valid as stamcost is reduced by generally 15% to just account for the amount of stamina everyone uses to dodge, block etc. No matter how often this claim gets reiterated, the staminacosts of these abilities are already accounted for in the games design and are therefore no argument for a preference of magica morphs of skills only.
As for your second idea, i.e. the devs aiming at a spreading of stats: Please explain how the current design is aiming for that? Magica users currently may choose 7 out of 8 skills with no thought about spending anything "extra" in stamina. So if your idea is indeed one of the aims, then setting half of the skills to stamina costs would actually support this aim.
edit:
As for your edit: We will not see such a set as long as the minds of developers think its ok to state: "This is now a stamina ability" instead of: "This is a stamina ability" and "This is a magica ability". Division of players in magica and stamina is shaped by the way developers look at it. Imho if both are seen as equal they should be treated as such, including getting rid of prejudices like stamina users like to use magica based abilities or magica users need more abilities. Both are not valid when SI hits live, since magica users can utilize damage just as well through light/heavy attacks as stamina users and differences in resource use as well as costs are generally accounted for by design.
Sure, there is alot to come in terms of giving stamina users the same variety of abilities magica users enjoy or an equally effective way to stack major ressource pool, but starting with the new skill line reflecting all roles viable, no matter the main ressource pool used, would actually be a good step in the right direction. Making 4 out of the 8 morphs stamina based can achieve this goal.Edited by Elsterchen on April 19, 2018 7:08AM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Imbue Weapons 2 second duration is short and there will be absolutely times when people cast the skill and are unable to use it and waste their resources. Stuns, PvE mechanics, cast-times, necessitated move or dodge, etc. Making it 3 would keep the same intent of a quick buff but be more forgiving.
I´m highly against increasing the time as this would mean creating the possibility of 100% unwanted combinations like:
Imbue (1s gcd) snipe (1.2s cast) lightattack PI => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) darkflare (1.1s cast) lightattack javelin => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) runecage (1s gcd) overload =>poof
The 2s time window is chosen very carefully to not allow for ultra high burst combinations with casttime abilities.
Also it definetly needs to be fixed to not work on overload lightattacks. That´s broken either way but a longer timer would allow it to be used in combination with runecage which would also make it a guaranteed hit. Not. Good.
@Joy_Division
Then just split the damage in half and make it usable on the next two light attacks within 6-10 seconds.
In its recent version the skill sounds nice but in reality is too clunky because of the server and lag/delay issues. A skill like that works in a game that's technically on point. ESO isn't.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Imbue Weapons 2 second duration is short and there will be absolutely times when people cast the skill and are unable to use it and waste their resources. Stuns, PvE mechanics, cast-times, necessitated move or dodge, etc. Making it 3 would keep the same intent of a quick buff but be more forgiving.
I´m highly against increasing the time as this would mean creating the possibility of 100% unwanted combinations like:
Imbue (1s gcd) snipe (1.2s cast) lightattack PI => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) darkflare (1.1s cast) lightattack javelin => poof
Imbue (1s gcd) runecage (1s gcd) overload =>poof
The 2s time window is chosen very carefully to not allow for ultra high burst combinations with casttime abilities.
Also it definetly needs to be fixed to not work on overload lightattacks. That´s broken either way but a longer timer would allow it to be used in combination with runecage which would also make it a guaranteed hit. Not. Good.
@Joy_Division
Then just split the damage in half and make it usable on the next two light attacks within 6-10 seconds.
In its recent version the skill sounds nice but in reality is too clunky because of the server and lag/delay issues. A skill like that works in a game that's technically on point. ESO isn't.
I agree. Weaving normal light attacks is already frustrating for those of us who suffer from latency or ping troble.
Empower + Imbue + light attack seems like too great a combo for ganking, I thought you wanted to get rid of this ganking potential by removing the empowering of skills, but now you just added some real hard hitting 1-2 combos with this skill, especially since it affects light attacks already cast, such as a bow projectile traveling to a target. Too easy to exploit, too hard to take advantage of in light attack weaving.
Make it half the damage, but affect the next 2 light attacks instead (or whichever numbers are deemed fair balanced). Less ganking juice, more forgiving for ESO's lagfest.
Edited by Carbonised on April 19, 2018 7:44AM1