PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Psijic Order Skill Line

grim gaming

Form lvling the skill line the maps seem to be blow up of 3 to 2 area that causes a lot of problem finding them then the hot cold mini game. Its diffent. I need a lot of time. But I feel its worth when compared to what you have to do mage guild and fighters. At least where I am at its one quest per lvl. Tho I had bring old tricks I learned in wow(archaeology and using tricks like using you mount to billy goat up a side of a hill. The one in stone falls you may want to move lower or make it easier to get. And on the map quests I d would change the order some so I don't have a map mission back to back. Map mission feel like pulling teeth and I was begging for quests like finding staff.

On skills line itself a lot of combo and laying effects can happen I be been using time stop on mobs with a lot of ground dots for power farm. The weapons skill is not the best I have to auto attack but only one time the the effect gone so what I be tones is mage guild entropy the weapon imbe then auto then force pulse. This way I am empowered with major sorc. Get my next auto super powered and chain the effects for the force pulse sec effect. Its how you lay the effects and think outside the box

Seraphayel

Another important questions about Mend Wounds: do you actually need to target your ally you want to heal (which would basically kill this entire ability) or is it a smart heal?

Seraphayel

Another important questions about Mend Wounds: do you actually need to target your ally you want to heal (which would basically kill this entire ability) or is it a smart heal?

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Stamina has 4 weapons, Magicka 2. When there are two more Magicka weapons I am fine with new skill lines offering 50:50.

ToRelax

Seraphayel wrote: »

Another important questions about Mend Wounds: do you actually need to target your ally you want to heal (which would basically kill this entire ability) or is it a smart heal?

You use the ability, then target and light or heavy attack an ally. Can't use light/heavy attacks on enemies until that's done.
It will then consume magicka for each heal, whether light or heavy attacks, so the cost is considerable. Heavy attacks can be channeled for a long time, maybe indefinitely. It's all ranged, independent from weapon type/Overload.

grim gaming

Question can I use thee spell lotus for more healing with mending wounds I am still auto attacking?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.

As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.

So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.


Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.

Iselin

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

I'm confused about this. I completed the main quest line up to the point where I received the quest, the map, retrieved the skull and now closed my first 2 time breaches succesfully BUT the skill line still does not unlock for me. Perhaps I need to close my first 9 before I finally receive the skillline ?

I just read that template's don't have the psijic skilline. I thought that was meant as in: "at character creation" but perhaps they meant: "even after doing the whole quest line" ??

Yes. The first 9 - the ones that are all in Summerset - will give you Psijic level 1 along with the first passive that lets you see the random loot rifts all over Tamriel. (no need to spend a skill point for that passive it's learned automatically.)

Also... once you start the 2nd map closing a rift does not give a slight increase to your skill line (this threw at first and made me wonder if it was bugged) but when you do all 9 and turn in that quest, you get bumped up a whole rank to level 2. It keeps working that same way throughout.

It's certainly a different way than the way other skill lines unlock and then progress in small increments while you go about your business doing other things. I kind of like the joining part and it sort of exposes just how trivial joining the Mage's, Fighter's and Undaunted guilds are by just talking to some NPC for 3 seconds.

The advancing the skill line part by doing long quests that take you all over the place I'm still undecided about. It's not integrated into normal leveling at all like the others are so to me it feels like more like an event. It's definitely also easier to do on a character that is already leveled and has been all over Tamriel unlocking most wayshrines in most zones.

I think new players playing ESO for the first time after Summerset, who do the tutorial and keep on questing there then get access to the Psijic quest very early after doing only 2 or 3 main Summerset story quests, will get frustrated by all the travel with this one. Although, I suppose, it does give you a pretty good tour of the whole continent. Good for the explorer types I guess.

Elsterchen

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.

As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.

So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.


Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.

Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!

This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.

Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)

Carbonised

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.

As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.

So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.


Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.

Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!

This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.

Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)

A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.

Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.

Elsterchen

Carbonised wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.

As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.

So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.


Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.

Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!

This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.

Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)

A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.

Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.

Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?

VaranisArano

Please, please make the map quickslottable or something so I dont constantly have to navigate to inventory to open it to check location.

Its like doing a crafting survey, only 9 times per level. The constant unwieldiness of checking the map makes it far more painful than it needs to be.

Chilly-McFreeze

Seraphayel wrote: »

Stamina has 4 weapons, Magicka 2. When there are two more Magicka weapons I am fine with new skill lines offering 50:50.

I‘m really happy that there is an offensive stam morph. Probably gonna use this on my stam sorc. You know, the class with the amazing amount of offensive class skills.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Elsterchen wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.

As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.

So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.


Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.

Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!

This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.

Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)

A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.

Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.

Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?

Well said @Carbonised

For the reason I listed, a stamblade has no skill that use the magic pool that is sitting there, doing nothing. Using magic to get the buff save me the stamina that it would cost to have casted the skill. In this case, trap. That stamina savings might mean I could do another surprise attack instead of heavy attacking for resources. Like using crit surge on a sorc instead of daggers or momentum for major brutality.


And magic users do use their stamina pool, for sprinting, blocking and Dodge rolling. This is a big reason that stam skills are around 15% cheaper to cast then their magic counter points, you have to use your main resource for those.

Zakor

Mend wounds is an awesome ability! IIRC I proposed something similiar for resto ult

BUT:

Why would you destroy it with those boring morphs?

I understand the skill as a cheap tank heal, especially the heavy attack. For morphs I can decide between buffing major def buffs or getting healed also. While I can understand the later as a PVP specific morph(mind that you get 30% dmg reduction while channeling the heavy) I can't think of ANY situation where I as heal would have to buff my tank with major def buffs! My tank should have these buffs up at all time on his own anyway. So I buff him...nothing actually. You wouldn't use this on DDs since the light attack heal is just FAR too weak and while channeling the heavy on a DD you can't heal the tank. So no use for the def buffs here either.

Suggestion:
I can't say anything about the usefullness of the "get 50% heal"-morph since it's useless for PVE and I don't PVP. But PLEASE, for the love of god, change the other morph to something that is REALLY usefull. As it's mostly a tankheal by all means I would suggest something like regen buff for the highest resource on the light attack, small! resource return on the heavy attack(maybe around 300 max resource per tick) or (and this is my favorite idea) give it the ability to overheal into a capped shield.
This way you could use it to dampen heavy hits on your tank and just keep channeling to top him afterwards. Would give the skill a really unique touch compared to all other healing abilities. Since it doesn't heal for insane amounts this shouldn't break anything. A 10% conversion rate healing->shield would be fine and a cap of ~5-10%Max Health of the healed char should do the trick. Duration of ~6s as all other shields.

Oh, and it would be nice to get those outlines you get with nature's grasp while hovering over a friendly char

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Mend wounds is an awesome ability! IIRC I proposed something similiar for resto ult

Could you be more specific about this? From the numbers I have seen, the skill looks very lack luster. I agree with everything you said about the morphs though, wish there was something to do with giving resources.

Carbonised

Elsterchen wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.

As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.

So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.


Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.

Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!

This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.

Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)

A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.

Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.

Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?

Sorry to sound a bit unfriendly, but you seem to not understand the basics of how this game works.
For stamina builds, their magicka pool is pretty much sitting there quite useless. Thus, stamina build will want as many buffs, debuffs and CCs as possible to be magicka based, to save their stamina for damage dealing skills.
What you suggest by making utility skills cost stamina instead of magicka is actually a larger nerf for stamina based builds, since, like I said, the utility skills do not care if they cost stamina or magicka to cast in the first place.

This is the technical explanation, then there is also the immersion aspect, where it would make absolutely no sense to have a Psijic Guild skilline be split into half stamina based skills either.

As it stands, with Psijic skills being pretty much only buffs/debuffs and CCs - making them cost magicka is the preferred scenario for both magicka and stamina based builds. The only 1 active skill that does do damage (and the 1 passive) have both a stam and mag morph, and thus again you can see how the devs went out of their way to make this skilline equally appealing to both stam and mag based builds.

SodanTok

After playing little with Imbue(d) weapons - the stamina morph I just cant understand one thing. Why it has heal. I dont need it, nobody really needs it.
You either get one shotted or healer will heal you. Getting some 800 heals per cast (400 in PVP) doesnt really change anything it just sits there doing really nothing but probably is there just to avoid another cutting dive failure of not giving stamina morph anything.
It cant be compared by strength at all to the magicka morph that either applies nice DoT, Minor Maim or Minor Vulnerability.

Give it the heal to base ability or remove it completely and add stamina morph for once something that has impact on damage. This feels like horrible dejavu to year ago when another potential stamina ranged spammable (cutting dive) got neglected for no reason other than to simply avoid giving ranged stam builds anything good...

Seraphayel

ToRelax wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Another important questions about Mend Wounds: do you actually need to target your ally you want to heal (which would basically kill this entire ability) or is it a smart heal?

You use the ability, then target and light or heavy attack an ally. Can't use light/heavy attacks on enemies until that's done.
It will then consume magicka for each heal, whether light or heavy attacks, so the cost is considerable. Heavy attacks can be channeled for a long time, maybe indefinitely. It's all ranged, independent from weapon type/Overload.

Oh no. Targeting an ally is horrible and a really bad choice from ZOS. There's a reason why almost nobody uses targeted heals.

And you lose Magicka when using the light/heavy heal? Does the skill itself cost no Magicka or why do we need to pay twice for it?

Zakor

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Mend wounds is an awesome ability! IIRC I proposed something similiar for resto ult

Could you be more specific about this? From the numbers I have seen, the skill looks very lack luster. I agree with everything you said about the morphs though, wish there was something to do with giving resources.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
Can only state from my Template char:
Light attack heal: ~2,4k/10s (really low, guess they missed a 0 here)
Heavy attack channeled heal: ~6k/s for less than 3k magicka

The heavy attack heal was a bit higher than battle prayer. With every tick you create one of those magic bubbles from the passives for passive dmg while perma healing. Additionally, while channeling you gain 30% dmg reduction. Also, if slotted, you gain 5k shield on block.
All together this sound like an awesome and cheap tank heal like no other ability currently implemented. Just lacks a bit utility as stated above.

Numbers are taken from tooltip with around 1,8k mDmg, ~28k magicka and 50 Points in healer champion.

Elsterchen

Carbonised wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Seems odd that there are *any* stamina morphs in a magician's guild skill line. Bug?

Seems odd that there are 7 out of 8 magica abilities (morphs) to choose from in the first place. With the new damage scaling there is absolutely no reason to not make all skills 50% mag and 50% stamina ... and I am not talking about that cheap: here you have the base skill but it costs stamina now way of adjusting.

What new damage scaling? The only thing changing is the way light and heavy attacks are being calculated, the scaling for skills is not changing, so it is perfectly fine.

Its perfectly fine that out of 2 groups havin equal base mechanics one group gets to choose from 7 out of 8 skills to use and the other gets 1 or nothing? Really I don#t get it, why mag users have this much varity to CHOOSE from while stam users get 1 skill so they won't QQ about having to pay for a completely useless skillline.

This is far from fine: 4 skills stam based and 4 skills mag based would be perfectly fine. Even more so if each skill had a mag and stam morph.

Well nothing is stopping you as a stam build from using acceleration, it is just a buff, one that you can get from trap, yes, but if you use the magic version, you save stam.

As far as I see it, there are 2 tank skills, one healer skill(which can be used on a stam healer) and 2 dps skills and the dps skills are agnostic or offer specific advantages to each morph, I might use race against time on my stamblade instead of trap just cause I have no mag skills on it, it will save stam while using a pool that was just sitting there for a buff that is quite important.

So to reiterate, it is not a mag/stam division, it is clearly a role division and I think they did great, classes that dont have crowd control in pve get some and also get some great sustain buffs, looking at templar tanks especially but nb tanks as well. Classes that dont have a "spammable" will get one, looks at stam sorcs, mag sorcs and stam dks.


Only the healer one looks meh to me, really wish they one of the morphs did something to return resources to the player healed, the major resists are easy to come by and the other morph is just more heal for the healer. Not useful and probably not going on any of my healers bars.

Obviously any stamina based skill may be used by mag users as well ... it'll hit like a wet noodle (at least the damage part), but hey who cares (right?). So everything you say would stay true if half of the skills where stamina based. -> Well, equallity for all. If stamina users are expected to use magica skills and its all fine and good, magica users can be expected to use stamina skills just as well! After all its their "not-so-much-used"-ressource, they might get some use for!

This would not change the role-dependency of the skills.

Just maybe you might feel its kind of a waste to invest in a skill you won#t utilize for full potential (primarily due to its scaling of your minor ressource pool)

A buff doesn't care whether it cost magicka or stamina to cast. I think you failed to realise that.

Also, the 1 skill (and the 1 passive) that does do damage have both a stam and a mag morph, so your point missed the mark by like miles.

Fine, then what exactly is the problem with making half of the skills use stamina in the first place?

Sorry to sound a bit unfriendly, but you seem to not understand the basics of how this game works.
For stamina builds, their magicka pool is pretty much sitting there quite useless. Thus, stamina build will want as many buffs, debuffs and CCs as possible to be magicka based, to save their stamina for damage dealing skills.
What you suggest by making utility skills cost stamina instead of magicka is actually a larger nerf for stamina based builds, since, like I said, the utility skills do not care if they cost stamina or magicka to cast in the first place.

This is the technical explanation, then there is also the immersion aspect, where it would make absolutely no sense to have a Psijic Guild skilline be split into half stamina based skills either.

As it stands, with Psijic skills being pretty much only buffs/debuffs and CCs - making them cost magicka is the preferred scenario for both magicka and stamina based builds. The only 1 active skill that does do damage (and the 1 passive) have both a stam and mag morph, and thus again you can see how the devs went out of their way to make this skilline equally appealing to both stam and mag based builds.

Maybe I like to choose from the variety of buffs offered and I like to choose in terms of using 1 or 2 or all 4 of them, just like any magica user can do atm. As long as there are 7 out of 8 morphs locked away with magica costs tied to them I can't do that.

And sorry if this comes off a bit unfriendly, but as a stamina user I do not like my buffs to primarily be magica based -> simply because i don#t build for magica, hence lacking a comfortable ressource pool as well as magica recovery to sustain buffs during harder fights. Actually that's a no-brainer and I really don't know why you claim otherwise exept for trolling.

And again: If you claim there is is no problem with stamina users slotting magica skills, because they don't often use this ressource pool, then there should be no problem with magica users slotting stamina buffs either!

NBrookus

Elsterchen wrote: »

And again: If you claim there is is no problem with stamina users slotting magica skills, because they don't often use this ressource pool, then there should be no problem with magica users slotting stamina buffs either!

Magicka users need to reserve and manage their stam pool for blocking, dodging and the occassional sprint. Stam user out of magicka? Inconvenience. Magicka user out of stam? Dead.

Aznox

SodanTok wrote: »

After playing little with Imbue(d) weapons - the stamina morph I just cant understand one thing. Why it has heal. I dont need it, nobody really needs it.

I think having a heal component was a good way to make it worth a slot against other "loaded" abilities for PvP and solo PvE, without adding more damage and thus making it insta BiS spamable for endgame trial PvE across the board ...

Personally i really like how it looks.

Could someone please confirm if the bonus damage is "melted" into the light attack tick, and thus can be further buffed by things like empower, or if it has its own separated damage tick ?

ToRelax

Aznox wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

After playing little with Imbue(d) weapons - the stamina morph I just cant understand one thing. Why it has heal. I dont need it, nobody really needs it.

I think having a heal component was a good way to make it worth a slot against other "loaded" abilities for PvP and solo PvE, without adding more damage and thus making it insta BiS spamable for endgame trial PvE across the board ...

Personally i really like how it looks.

Could someone please confirm if the bonus damage is "melted" into the light attack tick, and thus can be further buffed by things like empower, or if it has its own separated damage tick ?

It's seperate.

Aznox

ToRelax wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

After playing little with Imbue(d) weapons - the stamina morph I just cant understand one thing. Why it has heal. I dont need it, nobody really needs it.

I think having a heal component was a good way to make it worth a slot against other "loaded" abilities for PvP and solo PvE, without adding more damage and thus making it insta BiS spamable for endgame trial PvE across the board ...

Personally i really like how it looks.

Could someone please confirm if the bonus damage is "melted" into the light attack tick, and thus can be further buffed by things like empower, or if it has its own separated damage tick ?

It's seperate.

Ok thanks, i guess it would have been unfair if it was amplified by stamsorc's LA boost, but mechanic-wise it makes it a bit boring, no funny combo to try with elegance and empower

Aznox

Elsterchen wrote: »

If you still believe that its perfectly fine for a stamina user to use magica for this skills its just unreasonable to assume its not fine for a magica user to use for a stamina skill. Hence, there is no reason for 7 out of 8 skills to be magica based only. Its just limiting the variety of skills stamina users may choose from.

You cannot compare meta and mechanics for stamina and magicka setups, their balance is completely asymmetrical.

Also it would be stupid (in PvP at least) to ignore your magicka pool as a stam character, for example Tri-stats enchants are basically free magicka

Valkysas154

Just make them markers on the map like every other quest
Mage guild worked since there was so many books every where - easy to find
but i don't know any one who uses things like treasure maps with out addons that mark where they are or webpages that show where they are

i can see this happening with this skill line as well so why not just make it normal quest markers instead since i wont be running around looking for it why i have all of summerset and quests to do instead and just wait for addon's

Aznox

Valkysas154 wrote: »

Just make them markers on the map like every other quest

[joke]
Maybe it's an evil plot to make more console players switch to PC and buy the game a second time ?
[/joke]

More seriously, on PC we will probably have an add-on with markers on day 1, but those poor console players

jypcy

If it helps, I’m pretty sure @Elsterchen is speaking from a pvp perspective and @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO is speaking from a pve perspective. Both of you have valid arguments on the use of resource pools from your respective contexts. That said, I think the Psijic skill line is appropriate as is, particularly since the next chapter cycle would reasonably be in DC territory. If it’s in redguard or orc lands, there’d be a good chance any skill tree it comes with would be stamina-oriented. I think Psijic does offer a good bit to stam users in both pve and pvp, but if you disagree, maybe hold off on Summerset and wait for the next chapter for new toys to play with. I can’t say for certain, but odds are you could get quite a few with it.

qwyksylver

My only complaint so far is thus: I was VERY excited at the possibility of a source of minor force that didn't require being in melee range so i could finally get rearming trap off my bar as a magblade and actually be ranged. Sadly from what i've seen while testing the magicka cost of accelerate is way too high to be casting every 12s, once i unlocked the morph that gives minor force for 36s i was again optimistic.....sadly the 3s cast time causes you to lose more dps than you gain it seems. maybe change the extended duration morph to be a lower cost morph instead? Just my two cents, anyone else got ideas?

Elsterchen

@jypcy Ty for contributing to the discussion.

IMO this is from the PTS patch nodes concerning combat changes:

Developer Comments – Ability Changes: We’ve made numerous ability changes with this latest update – some have global implications, while others are specific tweaks and quality of life changes. Some of our major goals with these changes include:

- Improving unpopular abilities and morph choices: Most of the abilities tweaks are targeting underused skills or morphs that we’ve found few players utilize.
- Increasing the viability of all classes to perform the tank and healer roles: Some class skills have received significant updates to help improve their ability to tank and heal dungeon and Trial content.
- Reducing the effectiveness of long duration snares: A few snares have had their strength reduced to better balance their high uptime on enemy targets.
- DPS Balancing: Some abilities and item sets have had their damage values and procs adjusted to improve the damage disparity between Magicka and Stamina builds. Other changes were focused on creating better parity between Melee and Ranged builds.

I don't see this major goal reflected in the new skill line as the possible stamina variants of this roles have been neglegted completely in the skills design. While it would be easy to implement as the skills have mainly buff-abilities.

Adding to it playing eso since beta, I just know that next year there is going to be a completely different motto that dfines major goals, so either it gets considered now or it won#t be considered at all. When SI launches any changes to skill lines will rihtfully be seen as nerfs... and I really don#t want a nerf-round, again. As said, I believe changes could be implemented easily now, there is no need to ask for drama later.

And finally, maining a templar I may assure you: Hope is (almost) dead. Never ever base anything you expect to happen in eso on hope in reasonable desicions from ZOS. Don#t get me wrong, I am not saying developers making a bad job or something along this lines, just least assured from us templars: even if you get what you hoped, asked and argued for, its gonna be very different from what you expected.