Don't you think it's time to do something against Cloak & Stam(blades), ZOS?

Ragnaroek93 · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh I see, a lot of NBs commenting here that won't lose their status that's 99% based on broken mechanics and not skill.

If the issue is not Cloak, it is the amount of "good stuff" a NB can have when build towards it. More than every other class/build can. And on top of that Cloak with all it's additional buffs and benefit to reset fights and just start again.

Sure, and I've highlighted the important part of your comment.

When built towards it.

Not every NB builds towards infinite regens & spam oriented gameplay - so again just to reiterate: if there are problems with certain builds, then those builds specifically should be addressed, not the entire class.

If a core concept of the class is nerfed, then that only weakens the infinite regen builds while the other builds are removed from existence entirely (meaning you get even more infinite regen rollerblades when it becomes the only viable way to play the class).

Cloak and all of its benefits IS the core problem. You have two options:

1. Remove the benefits or put them onto other skills

2. Increase cost so that Cloak will be used less and therefore the benefits are used less

And after nerfing Cloak you would have nothing against stamina getting as much defense as magicka has? Since magicka gets light attacks buffed it would be only fair for stamina to get the same overdefense, sustain and pressure which magicka has, wouldn't it?

Excuse me?

If we go by that, please give Magicka ONE execute that's not class based. Stamina has access to four execute abilities (DW passive, Steel Tornado, Executioner, Poison Injection), Magicka to zero. Z-E-R-O.

Oh and what about variety when it comes to weapons? Stamina has 3 offensive and 1 defensive weapon. Magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. Okay, granted, most class skills are Magicka based but doesn't change anything when it comes to weapon choices for casters.

Where the hag has Magicka better sustain than Stamina? And better pressure when 2h is most likely the hardest hitting weapon in game?

Magicka has better pressure because most dots are magicka based and they have Elemental Drain which equals 600 (!) magicka regen. Please just play a stamina class (like stamplar or stamdk) against good magicka opponents for once before starting another crusade against stamina.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

IMHO, Cloak simply needs a small, but significant change and balance would be restored: simply halt Resource Regeneration and Healing while Cloaked (exactly like Mist Form)...

Nightblades would still be able to exit a fight as needed, but they couldn't keep resetting a fight until it goes in their favor...

And yes, there are a lot of counters for Nightblades, but as more and more people are starting to realize (and IMHO its the reason you encounter so many of them nowadays), there is a counter for the anti-Nightblade counters...

And that counter-counter is Major Expedition and running; a Nightblade can simply run away until your detect pot runs out, a Nightblade can simply run from your Radiant Magelight...

They can outrun practically any of the so called counters...

No single player can pin a Nightblade down because of Shade...

Its the reason why you see so many people required to kill Nightblades that really know what they are doing; you get them near Deaths Door and they get away with either Shade or Cloak...

Just halt Resource Regeneration and Healing during Cloak...

Sure, they can escape, but atleast they wont be able to keep resetting the fight until they can burst you down with some combo involving Incap...

In other words: You want to kill the class. How would you think about making a heal over time effect out of Breath of Life? So templars can't blockheal to full health again in seconds...

I don't think anything but cloak needs touching really, NB is bursty, sneaky and mobile. It should just be more squishy via cloak changes, the passives are fine, and the QOL changes, like no target shade, and better assassains, whilst strong, are fair. Also stamina has by far the best pressure. Bleeds>any mag dots. Then add master weapons, and stamina executes, and its easier to finish off on a stamina dot build.

Bleeds itself are overperforming in my opinion. But you can only build strong bleed builds which have huge weaknesses. You will be super squishy on them or have no mobility at all.

Imo Cloak currently is overperforming (I even created a thread about it). However, I don't think that we need to nerf it now, after we see how much stuff will change next update. If nb will still be overperforming on PTS (which I doubt considering all the things magicka gets) we can talk again about nerfs...

Lichbourne90 · April 2018

The stealth class can stealth? Effectively? The hell is wrong with this game?

Hutch679 · April 2018

Should work like streak. Increase the cost on each use on a timer.

Chelo · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Don't you think so? There might be a reason why 3/4 PvPers (mostly in battlegrounds) are either Nightblades, using 2h weapon+bow/dw or both.

Cloak needs the Streak treatment asap - every time you use Cloak its cost is increased by 50%. Why the hell isn't this done already?

As a MagBlade I support this! It won’t affect my play style at all but will be a huge nerf to StamBlades abusing a Magicka Skill...

makreth · April 2018

Chelo wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Don't you think so? There might be a reason why 3/4 PvPers (mostly in battlegrounds) are either Nightblades, using 2h weapon+bow/dw or both.

Cloak needs the Streak treatment asap - every time you use Cloak its cost is increased by 50%. Why the hell isn't this done already?

As a MagBlade I support this! It won’t affect my play style at all but will be a huge nerf to StamBlades abusing a Magicka Skill...

maybe because it doesnt work exactly like streak since it can be countered and the player won't have achieved a distance. But on the other hand....everyone and their mother have a gap closer and striek's distance can be closed as well.

Datthaw · April 2018

People who play stamblades just want easy kills vs average players. The only stamblades that kill me anymore are the players whO I will admit are better than I am.

JobooAGS · April 2018

Datthaw wrote: »

People who play stamblades just want easy kills vs average players. The only stamblades that kill me anymore are the players whO I will admit are better than I am.

I love it when nightblades try to solo gank my bowden

Seraphayel · April 2018

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

The stealth class can stealth? Effectively? The hell is wrong with this game?

There's no stealth class like there's no tank or healer class.

Joy_Division · April 2018

Sevn wrote: »

Toast_STS wrote: »

I slot radiant magelight on all my builds nowadays, mag or stam, and you should too!

Lingering flare is better but the passives aren't as good. When they change empower I might switch to that on my mag builds.

They don't want to change their build. Simply as that. If they get cloak nerfed it'll soon be something else.

These players refuse to change up their build to fight one class but that one class sends them running to the forums because a potential notch in their victory belt used cloak to get away from certain death.

Not quite. I'm not sure why I am expected to take a morph of a skill I'd have to respec every time I PvP that adds a redundant function (I already get 10% crit from one of my skills) that all it does is not counter one class very well. It prevents a stun on stealth attack, but not the stun from Veiled Strike, Incap, or fear. The detection radius is ridiculously small. I'm sure NBs giggle every time they see people spamming this - expensive - skill in vain trying to find a cloaked NB. If Mage Light or, lol, Lingering Flare, were half as good, half as useful, and half as versatile as NBS claim to be, there wouldn't be so many threads complaining about cloak. Against DKs, Warden, Templars, and Sorcs, I don't need to slot a dead skill on my bar just to compete against those classes.

I'm told to slot mage light to counter NBs. I tell NBs to use cloak to counter Jesus Beam. NBs proceed to tell me cloak is useless and not a reliable counter against Jesus Beam and Jesus Beam needs to be nerfed. OK lol. At least the skill you have to slot to counter Jesus Beam was actually something you want to put on and has very strong tactical possibilities, notwithstanding how often I'm told it's useless and unreliable. You want to see useless and unreliable, slot Lingering Flare.

Again, I don't think cloak should get nerfed. I want my skills unnerfed so I'm not forced to slot crappy skills that are useless against all the other opponents in the game.

arkansas_ESO · April 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Hey, anyone who thinks cloak is fine, can I please have infinite reflects back. Its only projectiles, and a limited number too, whereas cloak is any ST not already on before, dots, and makes you invisible. I would even take an absorb/deflect, so no one can argue about the reflect portion.

You can have infinite reflects when my bowblade (whose pretty much every skill gets reflected btw!) has access to abilities that make those infinite reflects disappear until you cast wings again

Dyride wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Zzz... another of these threads.

Anyone thinking cloak is the issue: try playing a high damage build with limited sustain and say that again after you run out of magicka with just 3 consecutive cloaks.

The only thing making cloak sustain more difficult does is it makes the actual fotm meta 3k+ stam regen 1k mag regen builds stack more mag regen while high damage builds that are already more difficult to play become entirely unplayable.

You definitely hit the nail on the head. The builds people are raging about are the seeming "impossible" builds which cloak way more than the NB forum warriors would have you believe is possible.

Regen-build NBs shouldn't be hitting as hard as they do currently. However the only change I think to be fair would be reducing the Major Defile duration to match the Incap stun at 3 secs instead of 6 secs.

I don't think Cloak needs a nerf in stacking cost/reduced regen/no healing. Detect potions allowing single target abilities to hit would be the first and most important change. Right now, I will use waste a Detect potion and still all my abilities MISS MISS MISS as they only have to cloak to force miss, kite from their Shade and use it to escape.

Some of the other counters could be slightly buffed: range of Evil Hunter increased slightly or cost reduced, pulling NB from stealth with AOE should prevent re-cloaking for 1 sec (enough time for one skill cast), Detect potions with more variety of effects but only provide Detect to person using potion.

I'm quite sure Evil/Camo Hunter don't actually increase detection radius currently - they just prevent someone within 6m radius of you from stealthing by locking stealth for 3s should they try to do so while you have the skill activated (only 5s duration on activation).

Overall it's a bad skill mostly used for passives on most builds (ironically it's used by a lot of gank builds to maximize damage from stealth). Should definitely get some buffs.

Radiant Magelight is a different story since it has 12m radius, which is more than stealth detection radius vs most characters.

I also definitely agree about AoEs - they should prevent stealthing for 1-2 seconds.

It's one way to affect the infinite regen builds without ruining the high damage limited sustain builds, as those builds aren't able to spam cloak every 1s (if it keeps getting broken) anyway.

Deal. Wings now reflects/deflects all ranged attacks for 3s. Unless its something like potl/curse, only if its cast before wings though.

You can break it with an AoE, but to match the difficulty of the whackamole vs invis NB, it has to be a targetted one, like endless hail, eruption etc. Something expensive and difficult to hit them with.

Something like... bombard?

Sounds good to me, but you probably wouldn't like it after seeing how that works out in practice...

Also, Piercing Mark would permanently disable your Wings - you know, just to keep things even.

Mark->Cloak
DK skill -> Wings. Which is why I said engulfing flames to disable wings. (Not really any long lasting effects)

I probably would prefer it to wings of today, which are completely useless OW. Since like cloak, the counters are in my favor, and to break it a class would have to run a limited and sacrificial counter like pots. Or have to deal with landing something awkward to land on a slippery target. (Any AOEs on invisible, vs targetted AoEs on visible) wheras on my end it would mitigate a lot and scale better than a defense like block, and have more scope on what/how much is reflected.

But lets flip the argument on its head. Cloak can now totally has a limit on how much, and what type of damage, only single target hits it can cloak against, everything else goes through, buff or a nerf?

If that meant detect pots and reveal abilities like Magelight no longer worked against Cloak, then I'd say it was a buff. Doubly so if it worked for 6 seconds like DK's wings instead of 3. I think I actually salivated a little when you mentioned an anti-reflect pot.

MalakithAlamahdi · April 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope. I don't think ZoS needs to do anything about Cloak or Stamblades.

What ZOS needs to do is stop nerfing my class so I have decent and capable tools to use against Cloak and Stamblades.

If you expect to hit a cloaking rollerblade with your jabs in the current server infrastructure, I got some bad news for you...

I don't expect my jabs to hit anything with the current infrastructure. Giving me my stun back on blazing spear, so it useful more than just a "where did the NB go?" skill and to stop nerfing the crap out of my healing so I might actually be able to recover upon failing to find said NB would be a step in the right direction and something I'd be willing to try before any more nerfs.

L2P issue Joy, my jabs is working as intended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62GoJcVd4yg

MalakithAlamahdi · April 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh I see, a lot of NBs commenting here that won't lose their status that's 99% based on broken mechanics and not skill.

If the issue is not Cloak, it is the amount of "good stuff" a NB can have when build towards it. More than every other class/build can. And on top of that Cloak with all it's additional buffs and benefit to reset fights and just start again.

Sure, and I've highlighted the important part of your comment.

When built towards it.

Not every NB builds towards infinite regens & spam oriented gameplay - so again just to reiterate: if there are problems with certain builds, then those builds specifically should be addressed, not the entire class.

If a core concept of the class is nerfed, then that only weakens the infinite regen builds while the other builds are removed from existence entirely (meaning you get even more infinite regen rollerblades when it becomes the only viable way to play the class).

Cloak and all of its benefits IS the core problem. You have two options:

1. Remove the benefits or put them onto other skills

2. Increase cost so that Cloak will be used less and therefore the benefits are used less

And after nerfing Cloak you would have nothing against stamina getting as much defense as magicka has? Since magicka gets light attacks buffed it would be only fair for stamina to get the same overdefense, sustain and pressure which magicka has, wouldn't it?

Excuse me?

If we go by that, please give Magicka ONE execute that's not class based. Stamina has access to four execute abilities (DW passive, Steel Tornado, Executioner, Poison Injection), Magicka to zero. Z-E-R-O.

Oh and what about variety when it comes to weapons? Stamina has 3 offensive and 1 defensive weapon. Magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. Okay, granted, most class skills are Magicka based but doesn't change anything when it comes to weapon choices for casters.

Where the hag has Magicka better sustain than Stamina? And better pressure when 2h is most likely the hardest hitting weapon in game?

Magicka has better pressure because most dots are magicka based and they have Elemental Drain which equals 600 (!) magicka regen. Please just play a stamina class (like stamplar or stamdk) against good magicka opponents for once before starting another crusade against stamina.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

IMHO, Cloak simply needs a small, but significant change and balance would be restored: simply halt Resource Regeneration and Healing while Cloaked (exactly like Mist Form)...

Nightblades would still be able to exit a fight as needed, but they couldn't keep resetting a fight until it goes in their favor...

And yes, there are a lot of counters for Nightblades, but as more and more people are starting to realize (and IMHO its the reason you encounter so many of them nowadays), there is a counter for the anti-Nightblade counters...

And that counter-counter is Major Expedition and running; a Nightblade can simply run away until your detect pot runs out, a Nightblade can simply run from your Radiant Magelight...

They can outrun practically any of the so called counters...

No single player can pin a Nightblade down because of Shade...

Its the reason why you see so many people required to kill Nightblades that really know what they are doing; you get them near Deaths Door and they get away with either Shade or Cloak...

Just halt Resource Regeneration and Healing during Cloak...

Sure, they can escape, but atleast they wont be able to keep resetting the fight until they can burst you down with some combo involving Incap...

In other words: You want to kill the class. How would you think about making a heal over time effect out of Breath of Life? So templars can't blockheal to full health again in seconds...

Block casting Templars are so easy to kill now with defile being so over tuned. Making BoL a HoT would kill the last thing Templars have that isn't done better by anyone else.

Joy_Division · April 2018

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope. I don't think ZoS needs to do anything about Cloak or Stamblades.

What ZOS needs to do is stop nerfing my class so I have decent and capable tools to use against Cloak and Stamblades.

If you expect to hit a cloaking rollerblade with your jabs in the current server infrastructure, I got some bad news for you...

I don't expect my jabs to hit anything with the current infrastructure. Giving me my stun back on blazing spear, so it useful more than just a "where did the NB go?" skill and to stop nerfing the crap out of my healing so I might actually be able to recover upon failing to find said NB would be a step in the right direction and something I'd be willing to try before any more nerfs.

L2P issue Joy, my jabs is working as intended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62GoJcVd4yg

It may hurt, but it's still funny

Koolio · April 2018

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Plenty of counters, plz slot one

Shut up with these threads it's so annoying I feel like we need a bot to remind people that counters to cloak exist unlike streak.

Gabclosers counter streak, try slotting one.

If only they work at least 50% of the time. Between pathing issues, lag, targeting issues good luck. Most the time I have to hit 3-4 times to even move by then they are 2 streaks away and out of range of the gap closer.

Sevn · April 2018

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Oh I see, a lot of NBs commenting here that won't lose their status that's 99% based on broken mechanics and not skill.

If the issue is not Cloak, it is the amount of "good stuff" a NB can have when build towards it. More than every other class/build can. And on top of that Cloak with all it's additional buffs and benefit to reset fights and just start again.

Sure, and I've highlighted the important part of your comment.

When built towards it.

Not every NB builds towards infinite regens & spam oriented gameplay - so again just to reiterate: if there are problems with certain builds, then those builds specifically should be addressed, not the entire class.

If a core concept of the class is nerfed, then that only weakens the infinite regen builds while the other builds are removed from existence entirely (meaning you get even more infinite regen rollerblades when it becomes the only viable way to play the class).

Cloak and all of its benefits IS the core problem. You have two options:

1. Remove the benefits or put them onto other skills

2. Increase cost so that Cloak will be used less and therefore the benefits are used less

And after nerfing Cloak you would have nothing against stamina getting as much defense as magicka has? Since magicka gets light attacks buffed it would be only fair for stamina to get the same overdefense, sustain and pressure which magicka has, wouldn't it?

Excuse me?

If we go by that, please give Magicka ONE execute that's not class based. Stamina has access to four execute abilities (DW passive, Steel Tornado, Executioner, Poison Injection), Magicka to zero. Z-E-R-O.

Oh and what about variety when it comes to weapons? Stamina has 3 offensive and 1 defensive weapon. Magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. Okay, granted, most class skills are Magicka based but doesn't change anything when it comes to weapon choices for casters.

Where the hag has Magicka better sustain than Stamina? And better pressure when 2h is most likely the hardest hitting weapon in game?

Magicka has better pressure because most dots are magicka based and they have Elemental Drain which equals 600 (!) magicka regen. Please just play a stamina class (like stamplar or stamdk) against good magicka opponents for once before starting another crusade against stamina.

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

IMHO, Cloak simply needs a small, but significant change and balance would be restored: simply halt Resource Regeneration and Healing while Cloaked (exactly like Mist Form)...

Nightblades would still be able to exit a fight as needed, but they couldn't keep resetting a fight until it goes in their favor...

And yes, there are a lot of counters for Nightblades, but as more and more people are starting to realize (and IMHO its the reason you encounter so many of them nowadays), there is a counter for the anti-Nightblade counters...

And that counter-counter is Major Expedition and running; a Nightblade can simply run away until your detect pot runs out, a Nightblade can simply run from your Radiant Magelight...

They can outrun practically any of the so called counters...

No single player can pin a Nightblade down because of Shade...

Its the reason why you see so many people required to kill Nightblades that really know what they are doing; you get them near Deaths Door and they get away with either Shade or Cloak...

Just halt Resource Regeneration and Healing during Cloak...

Sure, they can escape, but atleast they wont be able to keep resetting the fight until they can burst you down with some combo involving Incap...

In other words: You want to kill the class. How would you think about making a heal over time effect out of Breath of Life? So templars can't blockheal to full health again in seconds...

I don't block cast (I run Resto/Dual Wield), so it wouldn't bother me one bit...

Also, I already can kill Nightblades (I have more success against them than any other class), but I plainly see just how powerful they can be in the right hands just as you can...

When properly played, the class is overperforming; are you trying to argue that that isn't true?

That's just it! Just how many GOOD nb's do you encounter? I'm a terrible nb, and most of the ones I see are terrible. All this nb's are everywhere, but are they good?

Nope, this about us bad nb's that can't finish a fight so we cloak and run away from certain death. This is about not getting that guaranteed kill.

By God's I hope they do nerf nb's into the ground, let's see how even smaller the PvP crowd gets, and instead of complaining about not killing bad nbs it'll be about their inability to kill all the heavy armor noobs running around with 50k health using mist form to get away.

Doesn't matter how many times a bad nb can reset the fight, they're still a bad nb. How do I know they are bad? A GOOD nb wouldn't fail a gank. A GOOD nb wouldn't need to keep "resetting" the fight hoping you slip up. I've fought my share of nb's and you can most certainly tell those with skills and those without.

There are many ways to reset a fight so let us not pretend cloak is the end all be all. I can reset fights all day using blockcast BoL all day with my heavy armor high regen tanky build, but just like cloak I'm not killing anything with BoL.

To reiterate, this isn't about resetting fights, it's about not getting that guaranteed kill from the many bad nb's like me, imho.

MalakithAlamahdi · April 2018

Koolio wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Plenty of counters, plz slot one

Shut up with these threads it's so annoying I feel like we need a bot to remind people that counters to cloak exist unlike streak.

Gabclosers counter streak, try slotting one.

If only they work at least 50% of the time. Between pathing issues, lag, targeting issues good luck. Most the time I have to hit 3-4 times to even move by then they are 2 streaks away and out of range of the gap closer.

It works more consistent for me than the current cloak counters. Except for chains and toppling charge, but we've been complaining about those for ages.

technohic · April 2018

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nope. I don't think ZoS needs to do anything about Cloak or Stamblades.

What ZOS needs to do is stop nerfing my class so I have decent and capable tools to use against Cloak and Stamblades.

If you expect to hit a cloaking rollerblade with your jabs in the current server infrastructure, I got some bad news for you...

I don't expect my jabs to hit anything with the current infrastructure. Giving me my stun back on blazing spear, so it useful more than just a "where did the NB go?" skill and to stop nerfing the crap out of my healing so I might actually be able to recover upon failing to find said NB would be a step in the right direction and something I'd be willing to try before any more nerfs.

L2P issue Joy, my jabs is working as intended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62GoJcVd4yg

Had that happen in Nickel once while trying to take it. Enemies were on siege by the entrance to the back flag and with some healers and snipe spammers. We
We’re all supposed to push all the way back but it wound up being just me and 1 other guy. Saw them seem to not notice me from their spam and thought I had a juicy opportunity for POTL , DBOS , and jabs. Jabs missed the center most target, the others seemed to be taking the lower
Damage which was laughable. It’s just stupid buggy and relatively weak once CP gets involved.

Had a similar opportunity last night but was using dizzying swing in stead of jabs. Missing cleave damage but bursting the guy on the ballista and starting on a 2nd guy caused some panic where the spammers started scurrying.

Sergykid · April 2018

who uses aoe in pvp? even if you do, you won't keep up with placing the aoe over the cloak rate.

Magelight and detect pot? since i barely use all the spells i need, making space for it is a too big sacrifice. And the "12" meters range is a joke. It doesn't detect anything if i`m not hugging him. If i'm stealthed and i use it, he can see me from his stealth without me revealing him with magelight up.

and don't forget the other perk: every tick of heal crits while cloaked. And doesn't have any downside. At least streak has cost increase (which barely feels anyway).

Seraphayel · April 2018

Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...

Strider__Roshin · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...

Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?

Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.

It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol

Seraphayel · April 2018

Didn't know Jabs was a Cloak counter skill. Btw AoE counters can easily be outplayed by Shadow & Teleport Strike.

Sevn · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...

How's this, " Come on, everyone who dismisses cloak counters just don't want to change their build and specs for one class, even though that one class is the bane of their PvP existence".

I have zero issues with nbs when I PvP against them whether I'm using my stamsorc, warden, nb, or stamknight. Why, because I spec for them as I hate letting those slippery suckers get away and I hate being ganked even more.

Again, why not just ask for buffs to the many many many cloak counters, extended radius, longer duration of pots, cheaper cost since these are all used as excuses not to spec for nb's.

They're not asking for these changes because it would still require them to change up their build/loadout and that is the real issue for them. Just be honest about it.

DDuke · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Didn't know Jabs was a Cloak counter skill. Btw AoE counters can easily be outplayed by Shadow & Teleport Strike.

Oh no... people can use mobility skills to outplay opponents! What a horrible game design...

Seriously though, you should be happy most pugs have no idea how to utilize Shadow Image (let alone Ambush) to escape - if you're fighting someone who does have a clue, it's likely you're fighting an experienced player.

Another example of skills that are not problematic outside infinite regen rollerblade builds & feel perfectly balanced in other NB builds. When you combine infinite dodge rolling, infinite cloaking & infinite capability to escape if pinned down things start to get broken.

Keyword here is infinite, as none of those defensive mechanics feels overpowered outside the meta rollerblade builds (yes, people play other builds as well), which once again points at the real issue: absurd amounts of regen & no real counter to someone who stacks them. This btw applies to other builds as well, e.g. infinite dmg shield spam, permablocking etc.

Thogard · April 2018

Daus wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...

Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?

Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.

It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol

It’s very easy for us to tell the skill level of the NBs posting here by looking at what they consider a counter to cloak. if Jabs is pulling them out of cloak, it says far more about them than it does about cloak.

I wonder how many of these NBs are going to look back on these counters after they’ve spent time improving and think “wow I was really embarrassing myself with some of my posts. I can’t believe I was able to get killed so easily”

Hopefully some, at least.

thankyourat · April 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...

Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?

Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.

It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol

It’s very easy for us to tell the skill level of the NBs posting here by looking at what they consider a counter to cloak. if Jabs is pulling you out of cloak, it says far more about you than it does about cloak.

I wonder how many of these NBs are going to look back on these counters after they’ve spent time improving and think “wow I was really embarrassing myself with some of my posts. I can’t believe I was able to get killed so easily”

Hopefully some, at least.

Jabs will break Cloak 100% of the time. You have to get distance from someone jabbing you or your Cloak is a waste because it snares you as well. I find it funny when people talk about other people's skill level at this game. Honestly the Cloak needs a Nerf crowd is just as bad, listening to some arguments I'm finding people just aren't that good yet. I have zero problems killing any class. You can try to give techniques and pointers on how to deal with Cloak, but they won't listen I don't know if they won't a Cloak counter that's the equivalent to shield breaker or what. But as someone who has no problem killing nightblades even without a single Cloak counter I will say that it's possible, and it gives everyone something to work towards

Strider__Roshin · April 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...

Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?

Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.

It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol

It’s very easy for us to tell the skill level of the NBs posting here by looking at what they consider a counter to cloak. if Jabs is pulling them out of cloak, it says far more about them than it does about cloak.

I wonder how many of these NBs are going to look back on these counters after they’ve spent time improving and think “wow I was really embarrassing myself with some of my posts. I can’t believe I was able to get killed so easily”

Hopefully some, at least.

I don't use cloak buddy. I was speaking from a stamplar perspective. I haven't used cloak on my stamblade since they removed the purge (years ago). As long as you're being aggressive you'll break them from cloak the moment they attempt to use it. Honestly the anti-cloak crowd is just bad at this game.

Tigeracer · April 2018

I have only ever played stamblade (except when there was no such thing as stam and mag classes) and even I believe it’s a bit stupid that night blades are the only class that you have to slot a skill for, just to counter them.

rimmidimdim · April 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Come on, everybody who says use the counters to cloak is just trying to find some arguments why it's supposedly not overpowered. Cloak counters are super expensive crap skills most of the time. It is like the same people that look for excuses for the overperformance of bleed builds because you can use that 6k Magicka cleanse to remove them. Yeah...

Super expensive crap skills such as Jabs, Hurricane, Caltrops, etc?

Heck I have zero cloak counters in my loadout, and I have zero issues with them because I use detection potions.

It's one of the easiest mechanics to counter in the game lol

It’s very easy for us to tell the skill level of the NBs posting here by looking at what they consider a counter to cloak. if Jabs is pulling them out of cloak, it says far more about them than it does about cloak.

I wonder how many of these NBs are going to look back on these counters after they’ve spent time improving and think “wow I was really embarrassing myself with some of my posts. I can’t believe I was able to get killed so easily”

Hopefully some, at least.

Wait what? If I say Jabs are very difficult to my NB build I'm a bad player?

Now I understand that I'm not a cloak spamming NB but you make it sound like counters too cloak don't work. They do.

KingJ · April 2018

I break the cloak of Nb all the time on my stamplar its not hard.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

KingJ wrote: »

I break the cloak of Nb all the time on my stamplar its not hard.

jabs and hurricane is perfect for breaking cloak. we Dks sadly don't have such stuff. magDks do have a few AoE abilities(but they have other problems, like getting kited) but stamDks are stuck with noxious breath, which is a narrow cone and a very weak ability in general.